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DrRajpalSingh
July 1st, 2012, 12:02 AM
Friends,

Keep it up, very interesting discussion; hope more facts will emerge in due course for both the sides to be debated and then help us in arriving at some convincing conclusion!!!

Thanks.

rekhasmriti
July 1st, 2012, 06:34 AM
i agree sir---

but conclusion toh ram g bhi aa jaye toh bhi nahi nikalne wala

( just saying so---- i don't think so humei unhe takleef deni chahiye---for this--he has more important things to do :) )

Regards,



Friends,

Keep it up, very interesting discussion; hope more facts will emerge in due course for both the sides to be debated and then help us in arriving at some convincing conclusion!!!

Thanks.

DrRajpalSingh
July 1st, 2012, 07:39 AM
i agree sir---

but conclusion toh ram g bhi aa jaye toh bhi nahi nikalne wala

( just saying so---- i don't think so humei unhe takleef deni chahiye---for this--he has more important things to do :) )

Regards,

Baat ko ghuma phira ke kahane ka matlab aap bhi is bare mein apne sapast kuchh bhi vichar nahin rakhte.

Mera manana hai kee duniya kee sabhi samsayon ka der saber baatchit se hi hal nikalta aya hai; ab bhi aisa hi hoga.

Aap ko majak mein bhi nirash hone kee ya dusroyon ke bare mein yah kahne kee" --he has more important things to do'' jaroorat nahin honi chahiya. Hain, aap ko apni baat kahane ka pura adhikar hai. Would you let us know whom do say 'he' in your post!

Thanks.

swaich
July 1st, 2012, 08:58 PM
Brother, i request you not to comment on my ideology and to remind you that you are not an authority to state that i am biased or not. As i already said that i welcome the criticism but allegation will not be tolerated.If you are not agree with one of my statement than you can criticize my words, but how you can claim that i am biased and you are not biased. Muslim invaded India that is true and history. For sati ritual, see this "http://www.ivarta.com/columns/ol_060328.htm" and a number of proofs are also available over the internet and libraries. I didn't said that muslims started this custom, it was started by hindus, but because of muslims. They would have tried to stop this custom but it is true that it was started because of them..
The link you posted was by one guy with his own hypothesis about the origins of Sati. Even a neutral guy who knows nothing about India's Hindu Muslim past will be able to tell that the article is extremely biased and written with an agenda to put the blame of the inhuman practice of Sati squarely on Muslims. The wiki page on Sati gives ample information with references on women practicing Sati during Gupta period and instances recorded during Mahabharata.


Mugjhe pata tha ki aap percentage ki baat jaroor karogae... isi liye main pehle ki kafi clear words mai likha tha... "(i dont think it would be more than 1% of total female population of india at that time) matlab ye custom population ke ek bahot choote hisse ko satisfy karta tha(may be less than even 1%, or much less than that), majority ya to iske against thi ya neutral thi.. brother read again and fir se reply karo...
I dont think we would be in a position to quote a figure based on what you or me could read. It could have been practiced by every second widowed woman or perhaps 1 out of 100 as you stated. But there's no way we could come at a figure. So its best to drop it.


koi religious basis naahi tha... or aapko pata ho to hum sab ko batao...
I think we all know about the religious association and the story linked with ShivJi's wife. If you choose to disregard that, its your wish.


bhai aapka reply incomplete and hypothetical hai... please thoda sa research kar ke complete answer dene ki kosish karo..

brother i tried explaining it in simplest and detailed way, ever with example... but aapka kisi baat ko samajhna mere samjhane se jayada is baat pe depend karta hai ki aap us cheez ko samjhne mai intrested ho ya nahi...
I can say the same about you brother. The reasons and the references you used dont hold water for me, so how can I agree.

And I would again repeat, the Sati example is being dragged. It was meant to show how insistence on same-gotra marriage and punishments for those who dont adhere to it s a rather regressive custom, which gradually washes away after a few generations and with increase in education.

swaich
July 1st, 2012, 09:00 PM
Baat ko ghuma phira ke kahane ka matlab aap bhi is bare mein apne sapast kuchh bhi vichar nahin rakhte.

Mera manana hai kee duniya kee sabhi samsayon ka der saber baatchit se hi hal nikalta aya hai; ab bhi aisa hi hoga.

Aap ko majak mein bhi nirash hone kee ya dusroyon ke bare mein yah kahne kee" --he has more important things to do'' jaroorat nahin honi chahiya. Hain, aap ko apni baat kahane ka pura adhikar hai. Would you let us know whom do say 'he' in your post!

Thanks.

I think you are taking it far too seriously. Rekha meant Shri Ram when saying that 'he' has better things to do and bigger issues to solve than coming to earth and solving our topic of this thread.

rekhasmriti
July 2nd, 2012, 12:01 AM
sure sir : I would like to Explain who is that " HE" ---i was refering to


after posting--when i was reading---i was so sure---not everyone--would understand what actually have i said

" conclusion toh ram g bhi aa jaye toh bhi nahi nikalne wala

( just saying so---- i don't think so humei unhe takleef deni chahiye---for this--he has more important things to do :) ) "

in first line i have said ---ram g bhi aa jaye toh conclusion nahi nikal sakta --( ultimate solution for every problem is Almighty God)
by Ram G-- I meant " The GOD"

----next----humei unhe takleef nahi deni chahiye ---HE has more important things to do ------

yahan par " He " -- se i menat the Almighty God ---

---he has to take care whole universe---ab is choti si bat ke liye ( humare liye nahi hai choti---but comparing to universal issues toh choti hai_)

toh hum unhe kyun pareshan karein


so sir--- i was not making fun of anybody--rather i have never done such hidious thing ever--
just because someone is so smart-intelectual

that does not give him right to make fun of God's creation-


"aap bhi is bare mein apne sapast kuchh bhi vichar nahin rakhte"

i know u must be very busy-- so i m--- n so is everybody

jab whenver u have absolute faltoo time--please read my posts related to this topic

meine toh pehli hi---apne views pade --clear n cut bata diye the

jo ki kissi bhi JL memeber se nahi milte the--


so please---sir do not accuse me of soemthing--that i have not done or intended to do


nyhow---aap bade hai

agar meine zyada bola ho toh -- i m extremely sorry sir g







Baat ko ghuma phira ke kahane ka matlab aap bhi is bare mein apne sapast kuchh bhi vichar nahin rakhte.

Mera manana hai kee duniya kee sabhi samsayon ka der saber baatchit se hi hal nikalta aya hai; ab bhi aisa hi hoga.

Aap ko majak mein bhi nirash hone kee ya dusroyon ke bare mein yah kahne kee" --he has more important things to do'' jaroorat nahin honi chahiya. Hain, aap ko apni baat kahane ka pura adhikar hai. Would you let us know whom do say 'he' in your post!

Thanks.

AbhikRana
July 2nd, 2012, 11:20 AM
Mr. Swaich,

Whether I have understood the topic in the context or not, you would not understand because it seems you are not ready to understand.

Of course the Jat community is a close - knit community, yet we have a very clearly delineated gotra system which ensures that the genetic inter-mingling does not happen too close. At the same time, the Jat community being a close-knit community is not a community of a handful of clans. It is a large community which is geographically spread out. Marrying out of gotras thereby ensures the keeping away/out of the ill effects or even the possibility of the ill effects of marrying anywhere close within the family tree or the extended family tree. Many, in fact most of our customs, traditions and way of living conform with the scientific principles/foundation, though when they came into being, the branches of various sciences weren't even in the incubator then. Hence, it would not be wrong to say that they were and are the precursors to further research in the various sciences.

Your last sentence, you have repeated what is being said by me all along. So, it should be me who should be asking "if it is all that hard to understand"...

sanjeev1984
July 2nd, 2012, 01:05 PM
The link i posted was by one guy with his own hypothesis!!!! I am excited to know about your views about this "http://www.scribd.com/doc/27178658/Misgivings-About-Hindu-Sati-Pratha" and this "http://www.articlesbase.com/religion-articles/sati-pratha-in-hinduism-true-face-198194.html" and this "http://www.helium.com/items/1031339-sati-pratha-a-crime" and this "http://www.redgage.com/links/theindian/sati=pratha-and-its-origins.html" and many more linkes are there... go to some library you will get a numbers of books too... Please let me know the numbers of proofs you need to believe in this fact. But still i am not getting one thing, how come what ever i see, read, write and speak is hypothitical and biased and what ever you read is factual and unbiased??? Please let me know, if you are an authority???

The percentage i gave was an apporximation and was only to show the minority of followers and majority of opposing people. If you have correct figures of number of victims vs total population of females at that time, please derive the percentage and let us know. I can still bet on it that it will not be more than 1%. So as that custom was inhumane and against the majority, it was made void and ppl stoped following it.

Please read carefuly, I already said ki muslim invasion se pehle jo bhi 2-4 incident hai vo fact kam lagte hain or story jayada, or usme shivji ki wife wala incident bhi included hai... isme regard ya disregard karne ka to sawaal hi nahi hai... further agar shivji ki wife sati hui, to ye religious basis kaise ho gaya... is story se basis kahan se pata chalta hai??? or baat aapne suru hi kar di to mai aap ko bata du ki humare jitne bhi scriptures hain or unme jitni bhi stories batai gai hain usme insaan kr character ki acchai or burai batane ki kosish ki gai hai... kya seekhna hai ye aapke upar hai... un story mai to kahin ye bhi likha hai ki "na koi marta hai or na koi maarta hai" ab isko aap kis tarike se impliment karte ho vo to aap pe depend karta hai...

You can say the same to me, but you must give proof. And if you give proof as "wiki link" please let me know the person who wrote that particular column in that page. But jo proofs mai dounga vo proper (books and links) names ke saath hongae... appka pata nahi but mugjhe lagta hai ki vo jayada reliable hongae... waise wiki page pe jo likha hai vo maine pehle bhi bola hai, which is "muslims tried to stop the custom" and it is true that they tried to stop it but this is also true that ye custom logo ne follow bhi muslims invasion ke karan hi kiya tha...

And i will repeat again ki this example is more appropriate to discuss "why to change" instead of "how it changed"!!!

Or bhai increase in education ki to baat hi mat karo... ye vo education system hai jo character development se jayada career development pe jor deta hai... or jo banda puncture lagane ki dukaan kholne wala tha unko bomb banane sikha deta hai (last 5-7 din mai 2 engineers pakde hain)... i can speak about our education system all day long... to cut it short, i suggest we should only learn to read and write from this education system but to become better human being and a man of character, we must learn from our culture, family values and traditions...



The link you posted was by one guy with his own hypothesis about the origins of Sati. Even a neutral guy who knows nothing about India's Hindu Muslim past will be able to tell that the article is extremely biased and written with an agenda to put the blame of the inhuman practice of Sati squarely on Muslims. The wiki page on Sati gives ample information with references on women practicing Sati during Gupta period and instances recorded during Mahabharata.


I dont think we would be in a position to quote a figure based on what you or me could read. It could have been practiced by every second widowed woman or perhaps 1 out of 100 as you stated. But there's no way we could come at a figure. So its best to drop it.


I think we all know about the religious association and the story linked with ShivJi's wife. If you choose to disregard that, its your wish.


I can say the same about you brother. The reasons and the references you used dont hold water for me, so how can I agree.

And I would again repeat, the Sati example is being dragged. It was meant to show how insistence on same-gotra marriage and punishments for those who dont adhere to it s a rather regressive custom, which gradually washes away after a few generations and with increase in education.

sanjeev1984
July 2nd, 2012, 05:26 PM
Dear Swaich,

few more examples for you...
http://islammonitor.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3312:islams-indian-slave-trade-part-i-in-islams-genocidal-slavery-&catid=170&Itemid=67
http://proud-hindu.sulekha.com/blog/post/2008/12/impact-of-islamic-invasion-on-hindu-women.htm
http://www.isrj.net/PublishArticles/502.aspx

this is extracted from the first example of this post:-

The Muslim conquest of India was probably the bloodiest in history:The Islamic historians and scholars have recorded with utmost glee and pride of the slaughters of Hindus, forced conversions, abduction of Hindu women and children to slave-markets, and the destruction of temples carried out by the warriors of Islam during 800AD to 1700 AD. Millions of Hindus were converted to Islam by the sword in this period” (historian Durant cited in Khan p 201)

And Rizwan Salim (1997) writes what the Arab invaders really did:‘ savages at a very low level of civilisation and no culture worth the name, from Arabia and West Asia, began entering India from the early century onwards. Islamic invaders demolished countless Hindu temples, shattered uncountable sculpture and idols, plundered innumerable forts and palaces of Hindu kings, killed vast numbers of Hindu men and carried off Hindu women. .........but many Indians do not seem to recognize that the alien Muslim marauders destroyed the historical evolution of the earth’s most mentally advanced civilisation, the most richly imaginative culture, and the most vigorously creative society.” (cited in Khan p 179)

This is written by a muslim author, i dont know it is biased or not but it is true. and that is how sati partha started. Before muslim invasion this partha was not in existance, or jo ek do kisse hain... vo bas kisse hi hain... read the 3rd point of second link... Or muslim invasion se pehle india mai females ko kaise treat kiya jata tha uske liye read the third link...

and even now, if you are not able to see anything, i feel sorry for you... and i pray to god to bless you sight...

so in other words sati was not a "partha" it was a ritual came into practice for a short period of time... and as this was inhumane and baseless it was discared later... it was declared a "partha" by few historians...

we should see "avoiding same gotra marriage" as not any custom, tradition, ritual or partha, instead it should be considered as a rule or system, which must be followed...

by the way can you tell me what is the use of your surname "swaich"?????


The link you posted was by one guy with his own hypothesis about the origins of Sati. Even a neutral guy who knows nothing about India's Hindu Muslim past will be able to tell that the article is extremely biased and written with an agenda to put the blame of the inhuman practice of Sati squarely on Muslims. The wiki page on Sati gives ample information with references on women practicing Sati during Gupta period and instances recorded during Mahabharata.


I dont think we would be in a position to quote a figure based on what you or me could read. It could have been practiced by every second widowed woman or perhaps 1 out of 100 as you stated. But there's no way we could come at a figure. So its best to drop it.


I think we all know about the religious association and the story linked with ShivJi's wife. If you choose to disregard that, its your wish.


I can say the same about you brother. The reasons and the references you used dont hold water for me, so how can I agree.

And I would again repeat, the Sati example is being dragged. It was meant to show how insistence on same-gotra marriage and punishments for those who dont adhere to it s a rather regressive custom, which gradually washes away after a few generations and with increase in education.

rekhasmriti
July 3rd, 2012, 06:00 AM
thank god!

atleast u got it


usually toh people balam eme

ki meri bat bas meri hi samajh mei aa sakti hai




I think you are taking it far too seriously. Rekha meant Shri Ram when saying that 'he' has better things to do and bigger issues to solve than coming to earth and solving our topic of this thread.

swaich
July 7th, 2012, 10:51 AM
Dear Swaich,

few more examples for you...
http://islammonitor.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3312:islams-indian-slave-trade-part-i-in-islams-genocidal-slavery-&catid=170&Itemid=67
http://proud-hindu.sulekha.com/blog/post/2008/12/impact-of-islamic-invasion-on-hindu-women.htm
http://www.isrj.net/PublishArticles/502.aspx

this is extracted from the first example of this post:-

The Muslim conquest of India was probably the bloodiest in history:The Islamic historians and scholars have recorded with utmost glee and pride of the slaughters of Hindus, forced conversions, abduction of Hindu women and children to slave-markets, and the destruction of temples carried out by the warriors of Islam during 800AD to 1700 AD. Millions of Hindus were converted to Islam by the sword in this period” (historian Durant cited in Khan p 201)

And Rizwan Salim (1997) writes what the Arab invaders really did:‘ savages at a very low level of civilisation and no culture worth the name, from Arabia and West Asia, began entering India from the early century onwards. Islamic invaders demolished countless Hindu temples, shattered uncountable sculpture and idols, plundered innumerable forts and palaces of Hindu kings, killed vast numbers of Hindu men and carried off Hindu women. .........but many Indians do not seem to recognize that the alien Muslim marauders destroyed the historical evolution of the earth’s most mentally advanced civilisation, the most richly imaginative culture, and the most vigorously creative society.” (cited in Khan p 179)
Again you are trying to pick and choose info and suit them to your line of argument. Muslim invaders carried off women. That is true. Did it create the custom of Sati? I dont think so. Sati was already in practice. How much or to what extent, we dont know. But the evidence is there.



and even now, if you are not able to see anything, i feel sorry for you... and i pray to god to bless you sight...

Thanks for praying for me. But pray for yourself too so you can see things from an unbiased hindu-muslim view.


so in other words sati was not a "partha" it was a ritual came into practice for a short period of time... and as this was inhumane and baseless it was discared later... it was declared a "partha" by few historians...

we should see "avoiding same gotra marriage" as not any custom, tradition, ritual or partha, instead it should be considered as a rule or system, which must be followed...
Even if we call it a rule instead of a custom, rules change with time. I certainly wont rely on a rule as you call it, which was created hundreds of years ago when there is no scientific or logical explanation for it in the current scenario.


by the way can you tell me what is the use of your surname "swaich"?????
Off topic.

swaich
July 7th, 2012, 11:00 AM
Mr. Swaich,

Whether I have understood the topic in the context or not, you would not understand because it seems you are not ready to understand.

Of course the Jat community is a close - knit community, yet we have a very clearly delineated gotra system which ensures that the genetic inter-mingling does not happen too close. At the same time, the Jat community being a close-knit community is not a community of a handful of clans. It is a large community which is geographically spread out. Marrying out of gotras thereby ensures the keeping away/out of the ill effects or even the possibility of the ill effects of marrying anywhere close within the family tree or the extended family tree. Many, in fact most of our customs, traditions and way of living conform with the scientific principles/foundation, though when they came into being, the branches of various sciences weren't even in the incubator then. Hence, it would not be wrong to say that they were and are the precursors to further research in the various sciences.

Your last sentence, you have repeated what is being said by me all along. So, it should be me who should be asking "if it is all that hard to understand"...

I understand the gotra system and its originally intended purpose was valid when it was started. But perhaps you are unable to understand how things change and with change the system has to change too.

Lets assume for example that your great x 9 grandfather was the first Rana Jatt (I dont mean any disrespect but just trying to help you understand with an example). Now everyone of his future generation right upto you, followed the gotra rule and married outside the gotra. So with every generation, a new gotra DNA was added thus reducing the original Rana DNA further. Now after 10 generations, your DNA is a mixture of so many other gotra DNAs that you are a Rana only by name. So assuming that even if you marry a Rana girl (who herself will be mixed by other gotras and not just Rana) there would hrdly be any comon DNA between you and her. So what is the medical risk here?

Of course you can disregard the above example and simply say - "a custom is a custom" like so many others here.

AbhikRana
July 7th, 2012, 02:21 PM
By your logic it is okay for two persons falling in the tenth generation/level of a family tree to marry each other even if they are of the same gotra. Mind you, the genes even if they pass from one generation to the next despite the inter-mingling at each subsequent level more or less remain the same. Even if you take evolution into account to suggest genetic changes, that would take millions of years.

Hence, the custom of non-marriage within the gotra system is supported by well established scientific knowledge and research. Marriage within gotra is or would have been UNTHINKABLE for me and I would not advise the same to you or anybody else. If you (third person) would still like to go ahead with it, do it at your own peril (genetic and other physiological repercussions).






I understand the gotra system and its originally intended purpose was valid when it was started. But perhaps you are unable to understand how things change and with change the system has to change too.

Lets assume for example that your great x 9 grandfather was the first Rana Jatt (I dont mean any disrespect but just trying to help you understand with an example). Now everyone of his future generation right upto you, followed the gotra rule and married outside the gotra. So with every generation, a new gotra DNA was added thus reducing the original Rana DNA further. Now after 10 generations, your DNA is a mixture of so many other gotra DNAs that you are a Rana only by name. So assuming that even if you marry a Rana girl (who herself will be mixed by other gotras and not just Rana) there would hrdly be any comon DNA between you and her. So what is the medical risk here?

Of course you can disregard the above example and simply say - "a custom is a custom" like so many others here.

swaich
July 7th, 2012, 04:19 PM
By your logic it is okay for two persons falling in the tenth generation/level of a family tree to marry each other even if they are of the same gotra. Mind you, the genes even if they pass from one generation to the next despite the inter-mingling at each subsequent level more or less remain the same. Even if you take evolution into account to suggest genetic changes, that would take millions of years.
How do they remain the same? You are 50% your fathers genes and 50% your mother's genes. Your genes are only half similar to your father's. So your DNA carried by genes have changed.


Hence, the custom of non-marriage within the gotra system is supported by well established scientific knowledge and research. Marriage within gotra is or would have been UNTHINKABLE for me and I would not advise the same to you or anybody else. If you (third person) would still like to go ahead with it, do it at your own peril (genetic and other physiological repercussions).
It makes sense only for a few generations. But once your gene pool is diverse enough, one doesnt need to follow it.

AbhikRana
July 7th, 2012, 04:33 PM
If only the field of genetics was so simple as you think it to be. It's 50% from your father and 50% from your mother - this is too simplistic a view to take. But the field of genetics is not so simple as you have made it out. There is an inter - play of so many factors with some genes being dominant, while the others being recessive, etc etc. However, even taking your simplistic assumption into picture, lot of features of the gene pool in a particular family tree remain the same especially the dominant ones - Hence, for example, you get to see blue eyes resurfacing time and again in one generation/level or the other in a particular family tree or golden hair for that matter.

And as far as the viewpoint of not following the custom of non-marriage within the same gotra based on the mistaken assumption that the gene pool is diverse after a few generations, I would like to reiterate - anyone is free to do whatever he pleases with his life. S/he can go ahead and do it at his peril by all means.


How do they remain the same? You are 50% your fathers genes and 50% your mother's genes. Your genes are only half similar to your father's. So your DNA carried by genes have changed.


It makes sense only for a few generations. But once your gene pool is diverse enough, one doesnt need to follow it.

DrRajpalSingh
July 7th, 2012, 04:47 PM
How do they remain the same? You are 50% your fathers genes and 50% your mother's genes. Your genes are only half similar to your father's. So your DNA carried by genes have changed.


It makes sense only for a few generations. But once your gene pool is diverse enough, one doesnt need to follow it.

The discussion seems to advance towards: Jiskee bhavana jaisee, Prabhu Murat dekhi vaisi; aur

Jaisee drishtee vaisee srishtee!

swaich
July 7th, 2012, 05:00 PM
The discussion seems to advance towards: Jiskee bhavana jaisee, Prabhu Murat dekhi vaisi; aur

Jaisee drishtee vaisee srishtee!

I bet most issues, maybe with a few exceptions, do end up at this point. And we are fortunate that this happens. Or the whole world will be at each other's throats. :)

DrRajpalSingh
July 7th, 2012, 06:03 PM
I bet most issues, maybe with a few exceptions, do end up at this point. And we are fortunate that this happens. Or the whole world will be at each other's throats. :)


Good, All is well that ends well ! ! !

ssgoyat
July 7th, 2012, 09:41 PM
You are 50% your fathers genes and 50% your mother's genes. Your genes are only half similar to your father's. So your DNA carried by genes have changed.

.

If genetics is this simple as addition. I wish to go for a PhD :-)

swaich
July 7th, 2012, 09:59 PM
If genetics is this simple as addition. I wish to go for a PhD :-)

You are welcome to disagree and post your opinion. Cracking wise comments is always easy. :)

ssgoyat
July 7th, 2012, 10:27 PM
You are welcome to disagree and post your opinion. Cracking wise comments is always easy. :)

Ha ha.. you didn't get the hidden message my friend. Anyways.

Sorry, i don't think it would be wise for my wiseness to participate & discuss this, with a person, who happen to think in his distant dreams that the world of science is as easy as addition, subtraction...

Even chemistry is not that simple for that matter, let's rather put the topic of Genetics aside for a while. That

You mix 'X ML of chemical A + 'Y ML of chemical B'= and you get (X+Y) ML of some new formed chemical C.

Not to mention Biology used to be the first in my list of most hated subject. So, i don't consider myself academically qualified enough to further elaborate & falsify your logic of simple addition of genes


(PS: I hope i have made myself abundantly clear. And this conversation is OVER)

swaich
July 7th, 2012, 10:35 PM
Ha ha.. you didn't get the hidden message my friend. Anyways.

Sorry, i don't think it would be wise for my wiseness to participate & discuss this, with a person, who happen to think in his distant dreams that the world of science is as easy as addition, subtraction...

Even chemistry is not that simple for that matter, let's rather put the topic of Genetics aside for a while. That

You mix 'X ML of chemical A + 'Y ML of chemical B'= and you get (X+Y) ML of some new formed chemical C.

Not to mention Biology used to be the last in line of my list of most hated subject. So, i don't consider myself academically qualified enough to further orate & falsify your logic of simple addition ofgenes


(PS: I hope i have made myself abundantly clear. And this conversation is OVER) All that you have cleared is your own inability tp explain your argument via genetics itself but instead used well known chemistry fundas. If you are up for it pls explain how my argument was wrong by way of genetics, pls go ahead. If not better assume this convo is over for your own sake.

ssgoyat
July 7th, 2012, 10:53 PM
Lets assume for example that your great x 9 grandfather was the first Rana Jatt (I dont mean any disrespect but just trying to help you understand with an example). Now everyone of his future generation right upto you, followed the gotra rule and married outside the gotra. So with every generation, a new gotra DNA was added thus reducing the original Rana DNA further. Now after 10 generations, your DNA is a mixture of so many other gotra DNAs that you are a Rana only by name. So assuming that even if you marry a Rana girl (who herself will be mixed by other gotras and not just Rana) there would hrdly be any comon DNA between you and her. So what is the medical risk here?

.


All that you have cleared is your own inability tp explain your argument via genetics itself but instead used well known chemistry fundas. If you are up for it pls explain how my argument was wrong by way of genetics, pls go ahead. If not better assume this convo is over for your own sake.

Okay. No more fundas, no more gyaan. Let's just say, i agree with your Logic & above quoted RANA example, for a while

Could you now please drop 'swaich' from your name? :-)

And do keep me posted for your marriage with other swaich girl, In case you're single still. My contact details remains updated (my profile page). I want to be a witness for this historic event :-)

cutejaatsandeep
July 7th, 2012, 10:56 PM
Okay. No more fundas, no more gyaan. Let's just say, i agree with your Logic & above quoted RANA example, for a while

Could you now please drop 'swaich' from your name? :-)

And do keep me posted for your marriage with other swaich girl, In case you're single still. My contact details remains updated (my profile page). I want to be a witness for this historic event :-)
bro i asked him the same question that can u get married to a swaich girl and you know i got a shocking answer.he said yes i can:)

AbhikRana
July 7th, 2012, 10:58 PM
If only genetics as a field were so simple, Gregor Johann Mendel, the Austrian monk also known as the father of genetics wouldn't have spent a lifetime cross-breeding peas followed by countless scientists and geneticists spending theirs' after him.

What needs to be acknowledged and appreciated is what has already been established by it and to use it as building blocks for further research to deal with the complex problems still plaguing mankind.

cooljat
July 8th, 2012, 09:02 AM
Abhik Bhai, why waste time when he's not ready at all to open his mind. It's like 'Bhains ke aage been bajana' !!

Mr. Swaich pretends to be pseudo-intellect, scholar, liberal or whatever .. this is his thinking, if he support same gotra marriage, let him marry his sisters and if he's already married .. in future, let him find same-gotra, sibiling matches for his kids. Mr Swaich, are your listening - WE JUST DON'T GIVE A DAMN!!

Crux is a true Jat will never marry with in same gotra, no matter what. Topic is over!




Mr. Swaich,

Whether I have understood the topic in the context or not, you would not understand because it seems you are not ready to understand.

Of course the Jat community is a close - knit community, yet we have a very clearly delineated gotra system which ensures that the genetic inter-mingling does not happen too close. At the same time, the Jat community being a close-knit community is not a community of a handful of clans. It is a large community which is geographically spread out. Marrying out of gotras thereby ensures the keeping away/out of the ill effects or even the possibility of the ill effects of marrying anywhere close within the family tree or the extended family tree. Many, in fact most of our customs, traditions and way of living conform with the scientific principles/foundation, though when they came into being, the branches of various sciences weren't even in the incubator then. Hence, it would not be wrong to say that they were and are the precursors to further research in the various sciences.

Your last sentence, you have repeated what is being said by me all along. So, it should be me who should be asking "if it is all that hard to understand"...

puneetlakra
July 8th, 2012, 12:20 PM
Mr Swaich, gotra forbidding really means best new breed to come after mating with new and different genetics chains ,
three different from father side and three from mother side , when we cross breed with the same DNA chain then we won't get the best and better breed that why our Intelligent forefathers developed this gotra forbidding system to get the better breed, even you are also the are example of this system , Is 6-7 generation are so wise and quicker as you are ? no . is your next few generations have same qualities which you have ? no they become much better if you follows the right system

swaich
July 8th, 2012, 01:32 PM
Okay. No more fundas, no more gyaan. Let's just say, i agree with your Logic & above quoted RANA example, for a while

Could you now please drop 'swaich' from your name? :-)

And do keep me posted for your marriage with other swaich girl, In case you're single still. My contact details remains updated (my profile page). I want to be a witness for this historic event :-)

Why should I drop my choice of surname? What has that got to do with you? Its my family name.

I am already married by the way. As I mentioned a couple of pages back, there are instances of Jatt Sikhs of the same got marrying each other. The guy whom I was talking about, a Sidhu Jatt is in the IAF by the way and doing well.

swaich
July 8th, 2012, 01:36 PM
Abhik Bhai, why waste time when he's not ready at all to open his mind. It's like 'Bhains ke aage been bajana' !!

Mr. Swaich pretends to be pseudo-intellect, scholar, liberal or whatever .. this is his thinking, if he support same gotra marriage, let him marry his sisters and if he's already married .. in future, let him find same-gotra, sibiling matches for his kids. Mr Swaich, are your listening - WE JUST DON'T GIVE A DAMN!!

Crux is a true Jat will never marry with in same gotra, no matter what. Topic is over!

Who are you to define a true Jatt? Its not your or anybody's copyright. If you cant debate, keep out!

cutejaatsandeep
July 8th, 2012, 01:51 PM
there are instances of Jatt Sikhs of the same got marrying each other. The guy whom I was talking about, a Sidhu Jatt is in the IAF by the way and doing well.[/QUOTE]
bhai aiseee jaatoo ko haryanvi mai nakliiii bollee hee:)

ssgoyat
July 8th, 2012, 02:10 PM
bhai aiseee jaatoo ko haryanvi mai nakliiii bollee hee:)

Haryanavi me ek aur jumla yaad aya...

'बेबे का यार..'

sanjeev1984
July 8th, 2012, 02:22 PM
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha........

bhai public forum mai aisi batein kar ke apne gyan ka pardarshan mat karo... NASA wale pakad le jayangae....

jokes apart... genetics... doodh mai pani milane jitni aasaan nahi hai bhai... kisi doc se baat karo... thoda gyan badhao...


How do they remain the same? You are 50% your fathers genes and 50% your mother's genes. Your genes are only half similar to your father's. So your DNA carried by genes have changed.


It makes sense only for a few generations. But once your gene pool is diverse enough, one doesnt need to follow it.

Sure
July 8th, 2012, 02:39 PM
bro i asked him the same question that can u get married to a swaich girl and you know i got a shocking answer.he said yes i can:)

Please Guys have an understanding with above statement. If he don,t want to understand he have reason.

DrRajpalSingh
July 8th, 2012, 03:20 PM
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha........jokes apart... genetics... doodh mai pani milane jitni aasaan nahi hai bhai... kisi doc se baat karo... thoda gyan badhao...

You are right Friend to say that to understand principles and application of genetics as a subject due seriousness is required.

Thanks

cooljat
July 8th, 2012, 06:21 PM
Hamne na jeetni koi debate wibate .. ya, koi school ki debate konya ... Tu jeet gaya nu maan le, lekin hamna karte same gotra marriage aur naa hi support karte .. tu ghanna asli JATT hai, samaj sudharak .. ja tu khush reh le!

Lekin crux is same .. we don't support same gotra marriage .. if you do it's ur problem not Jat Samaj's .. aur fer bhi na maane tu, to fer nu kar kissi gaam main jaake bade-bujurgo dhore kar ya debate .. 2-4 latth padenge tab samaj aayegi thare!

Ghanni vaad-vivaad pratiyogta chaal rehi ... !!


Who are you to define a true Jatt? Its not your or anybody's copyright. If you cant debate, keep out!

rekhasmriti
July 8th, 2012, 10:06 PM
no offence

but this is gross



Haryanavi me ek aur jumla yaad aya...

'बेबे का यार..'

Sure
July 9th, 2012, 01:10 PM
Yo Times of India wala swaich aur yo bhai Aik jaise hi hain, pahle toh ye pata karna chahiye ki ye Jat hain bhi ke na aur fir baat ko tavojo deni chahiye, Kya maloom dilution case ho aur sirf bat ka batangad banana hi maksad ho.

swaich
July 9th, 2012, 02:24 PM
Till date none of you have been able to refute my understanding of transfer of DNA and genes from a generation to the next, but your only argument is that genetics is not so easy and simple as I see it. So explain how and where I am wrong. For your benefit the argument in question is:

If C is a child of A and B, then C's genes = 50% A + 50% B

Can somebody please explain whats wrong here?

swaich
July 9th, 2012, 02:27 PM
Yo Times of India wala swaich aur yo bhai Aik jaise hi hain, pahle toh ye pata karna chahiye ki ye Jat hain bhi ke na aur fir baat ko tavojo deni chahiye, Kya maloom dilution case ho aur sirf bat ka batangad banana hi maksad ho.

Pucho bhai aapko kya pata karna hai?

Aur ye ToI wala swaich kaun hai? Pehle bhi kisi ne isi thread pe yahi kaha tha. Bhai koi link shink ho to mujhe bhi dikha do yeh ToI wala Swaich.

I am using my real name in my profile. Please feel free to dig it up online.

swaich
July 9th, 2012, 02:29 PM
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha........

bhai public forum mai aisi batein kar ke apne gyan ka pardarshan mat karo... NASA wale pakad le jayangae....

jokes apart... genetics... doodh mai pani milane jitni aasaan nahi hai bhai... kisi doc se baat karo... thoda gyan badhao...

Aap yeh to keh dete hain ki main galat hun par yeh nahi bata pate ki sahi kya hai. Kripa karke batayein main kaha galat hun.

swaich
July 9th, 2012, 03:34 PM
Mr Swaich, gotra forbidding really means best new breed to come after mating with new and different genetics chains ,
three different from father side and three from mother side , when we cross breed with the same DNA chain then we won't get the best and better breed that why our Intelligent forefathers developed this gotra forbidding system to get the better breed, even you are also the are example of this system , Is 6-7 generation are so wise and quicker as you are ? no . is your next few generations have same qualities which you have ? no they become much better if you follows the right system

Bhai, read my posts again. All I have said is that avoiding same gotras for marriages made sense when all gotras were small in number and the Jat community itself was small. But as the community grew, each and every gotra imbibed genes of other gotras via marriages and as such every gotra got mixed with other gotras. Hence after a few generations two families of the same gotra would have mixed so much with other gotras that they would be very different from each other and hence pose no health risk if they were to marry each other.

I can understand when adhering to customs is the only reason. And that is a valid reason. But people here refuse to acknowledge it and instead make vague statements about genetics being complex and what not. At least be honest and say that we dont care if its OK genetically, we are NOT OK because of customs.

AbhikRana
July 9th, 2012, 03:54 PM
Well, Mr. Swaich,

It seems you have more than made up your mind not to understand. Just an example - It is something like no matter however much hard evidence india presents on terrorism, everytime Pakistan says it is insufficient or the same is not valid.

The reason why it is being said that genetics is not so simple is that it is in fact a complex field. It is not simply the interplay of 50% of genes from father and 50% from mother. There are dominant genes, recessive genes, there is mutation, etc. etc. If according to you the entire set of genes change within a span of 10 generations, palaentologists are fools who say that it took millions of years for mankind to reach where they are BECAUSE ACCORDING TO YOU EVOLUTION TAKES PLACE WITHIN A SPAN OF 10 GENERATIONS (AROUND 250 YEARS).

If you are still not willing to consider the facts as they are, please don't.


Till date none of you have been able to refute my understanding of transfer of DNA and genes from a generation to the next, but your only argument is that genetics is not so easy and simple as I see it. So explain how and where I am wrong. For your benefit the argument in question is:

If C is a child of A and B, then C's genes = 50% A + 50% B

Can somebody please explain whats wrong here?

swaich
July 9th, 2012, 04:17 PM
Well, Mr. Swaich,

It seems you have more than made up your mind not to understand. Just an example - It is something like no matter however much hard evidence india presents on terrorism, everytime Pakistan says it is insufficient or the same is not valid.

The reason why it is being said that genetics is not so simple is that it is in fact a complex field. It is not simply the interplay of 50% of genes from father and 50% from mother. There are dominant genes, recessive genes, there is mutation, etc. etc. If according to you the entire set of genes change within a span of 10 generations, palaentologists are fools who say that it took millions of years for mankind to reach where they are BECAUSE ACCORDING TO YOU EVOLUTION TAKES PLACE WITHIN A SPAN OF 10 GENERATIONS (AROUND 250 YEARS).

If you are still not willing to consider the facts as they are, please don't.

Thanks for finally explaining, instead of just saying genetics is far more complex etc etc.

Of course mutations happen and genes change. Thats a known fact. But I was talking about the overall transfer of gene from generation to generation. Mutations do happen altering the genetic structure. But my argument was that at a very basic level, a person's genes are inherited in equal quantity from his/her parents, who in turn have inherited them from their parents and so on. So a child's genes (a new set of genes creation) will be a 50% - 50% combination of his parents genes. Are we agreed at this point? I will only continue on to my next point if we are on the same page here. Let me know.

sanjeev1984
July 9th, 2012, 04:18 PM
bhai mai ek mechanical engineer hu... geneticst nahi hu to exectly 100% sahi kya hota hai ye to nahi bata sakta, but 12th tak biology padhi hai... us se itna to gyan ho gaya tha ki :) ye "If C is a child of A and B, then C's genes = 50% A + 50% B" bilkul galat hai... or ruhi baat sahi ko pata karne ki to uske liye to ye link "http://genetics.thetech.org/ask-a-geneticist" aapki kafi help kar sakta hai...

bye the way i have found a new joke to submit on "http://www.juliantrubin.com/cloningjokes.html"... which is "If C is a child of A and B, then C's genes = 50% A + 50% B".... god!!!! i'll dye laughing.... :D



Till date none of you have been able to refute my understanding of transfer of DNA and genes from a generation to the next, but your only argument is that genetics is not so easy and simple as I see it. So explain how and where I am wrong. For your benefit the argument in question is:

If C is a child of A and B, then C's genes = 50% A + 50% B

Can somebody please explain whats wrong here?

swaich
July 9th, 2012, 04:33 PM
bhai mai ek mechanical engineer hu... geneticst nahi hu to exectly 100% sahi kya hota hai ye to nahi bata sakta, but 12th tak biology padhi hai... us se itna to gyan ho gaya tha ki :) ye "If C is a child of A and B, then C's genes = 50% A + 50% B" bilkul galat hai... or ruhi baat sahi ko pata karne ki to uske liye to ye link "http://genetics.thetech.org/ask-a-geneticist" aapki kafi help kar sakta hai...

bye the way i have found a new joke to submit on "http://www.juliantrubin.com/cloningjokes.html"... which is "If C is a child of A and B, then C's genes = 50% A + 50% B".... god!!!! i'll dye laughing.... :D

You can read this :
The genetic material in the chromosomes is inherited equally from both parents. The sperm contains 23 chromosomes, one from each pair, in its nucleus. It is a very small cell, with hardly any cytoplasm besides what it needs to help it swim to the ovum, or egg. Like the sperm, the egg also contributes 23 chromosomes to the fertilized zygote, which then grows and develops into an embryo, then a fetus, and then a baby.

Read more here - http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/mole00/mole00481.htm

And here's more from Wiki which is referenced to a University of Utah site:

Genes are inherited as units, with two parents dividing out copies of their genes to their offspring. You can think of this process like mixing two hands of cards, shuffling them, and then dealing them out again. Humans have two copies of each of their genes and when people reproduce they make copies of their genes and put them into eggs or sperm, but only put in one copy of each type of gene. When an egg joins with a sperm, this gives a child a complete set of genes. This child will have the same number of genes as its parents, but for any gene one of their two copies will come from their father, and one from their mother.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introduction_to_genetics#cite_note-Utah-0)

Link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introduction_to_genetics


Here's more, quoting the famous, Mendel -


Like the fact that you are a composite of your parents—your mother and father each provided you with half your genes, and each parent’s contribution was equal. Gregor Mendel, often called the father of moderngenetics (http://www.scientificamerican.com/topic.cfm?id=genetics), came up with this concept in the late 19th century, and it has been the basis for our understanding of genetics ever since.
But in the past couple of decades, scientists have learned that Mendel’s understanding was incomplete. It is true that children inherit 23 chromosomes from their mother and 23 complementary chromosomes from their father. But it turns out that genes from Mom and Dad do not always exert the same level of influence on the developing fetus. Sometimes it matters which parent you inherit a gene from—the genes in these cases, called imprinted genes because they carry an extra molecule like a stamp, add a whole new level of complexity to Mendelian inheritance. These molecular imprints silence genes; certain imprinted genes are silenced by the mother, whereas others are silenced by the father, and the result is the delicate balance of gene activation that usually produces a healthy baby.
Source: From the Scientific American http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=a-patchwork-mind


Now I dont know what you understood, but the above is exactly what I meant. One each from our parents. 50%- 50%.

Ab has lo bhai?

DrRajpalSingh
July 9th, 2012, 04:55 PM
Ab tak aur kuchh hua ya na hua;

is bahane donoan paksh research to kar rahe hain;

sayad jaldi hi sarvmanya hal nikal aye!!!

Best of luck!!

sanjeev1984
July 9th, 2012, 05:24 PM
bhai

"If C is a child of A and B, then C's genes = 50% A + 50% B" and "C" is first child....
and "If D is a child of A and B, then C's genes = 50% A + 50% B" and "D" is second child....
and "If E is a child of A and B, then C's genes = 50% A + 50% B" and "E" is third child....

according to you every time their children would get 50% genes of each of them... now tell me "Why do children from the same parents have different sex, heights, different eye colors, body builds, personalities, etc.?"

I am telling you again... better you visit two type of doctors, brother....
1. geneticist. (he will explain you the concepts of genes)
and
2. psychiatrist (he will help you to.......)

waise aap scientific jokes likhna suru kar do... accha kaam mil jayega aapko...


You can read this :

Read more here - http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/mole00/mole00481.htm

And here's more from Wiki which is referenced to a University of Utah site:


Link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introduction_to_genetics

Now I dont know what you understood, but the above is exactly what I meant. One each from our parents. 50%- 50%.

Ab has lo bhai?

swaich
July 9th, 2012, 05:32 PM
bhai

"If C is a child of A and B, then C's genes = 50% A + 50% B" and "C" is first child....
and "If D is a child of A and B, then C's genes = 50% A + 50% B" and "D" is second child....
and "If E is a child of A and B, then C's genes = 50% A + 50% B" and "E" is third child....

according to you every time their children would get 50% genes of each of them... now tell me "Why do children from the same parents have different sex, heights, different eye colors, body builds, personalities, etc.?"

I am telling you again... better you visit two type of doctors, brother....
1. geneticist. (he will explain you the concepts of genes)
and
2. psychiatrist (he will help you to.......)

waise aap scientific jokes likhna suru kar do... accha kaam mil jayega aapko...

Bhai ab aapko link bhi dikha diye aap fir bhi samajh nahi paye. Probably Abhik can explain better since he has studied genetics. But agar aapne links dhyaan se pade hote to aapki yeh questions ka jawab bhi mil jata. Par koi baat nahin, let me try.

The reason why not all siblings look the same is because even though they inherit the same quantity of genes from their parents, genes activity isnt always the same. Sometimes one or few genes can become dominant from each parent. Why or when, we dont know.

When genes combine some are subdued while some become active. But there is hardly a way to suggest which will become dominant.

But this domination or recession of any particular gene doesnt mean the gene structure alters. They still remain equally inherited from both parents.

I have ignored your personal comments uptill now. But if thats all you have by way of counters to my scientifically backed posts, I pity you.

vikasJAT
July 9th, 2012, 06:09 PM
Till date none of you have been able to refute my understanding of transfer of DNA and genes from a generation to the next, but your only argument is that genetics is not so easy and simple as I see it. So explain how and where I am wrong. For your benefit the argument in question is:

If C is a child of A and B, then C's genes = 50% A + 50% B

Can somebody please explain whats wrong here?

A=SWAICH
B=SWAICH

C=SWIACH

A SWAICH h aur usme jo genes hain vo SWIACH k hain.
usne B se shadi ki jo Swaich hai jisme SWIACH k he genes hain....
unka jo bacha hoga vo h C usme 50% A k genes hain aur 50% B k genes hain.....
Ab C me total genes ek he type k hain jo ki SWIACH h......

If a person having different genes then his immune system should be strong......but if a person having same type of genes then immune system cause lots of genetic problems in next generation.

I think you understand.......otherwise go through some genetic engineering blogs or articles....

vikasJAT
July 9th, 2012, 06:20 PM
SWIACH simple si baat h ek baat bata.......
Tu SWIACH hai aur tu apne e ghar me kisi chorri te shadi kar lega?chahe ya chacha ki ho ya tau ki chorri ho?

agar tu JATT hai to ek baat bata du
Haryana me shadi k time 3 gotra ho se jime shadi ni kar sakte

1)maa ka gotra
2)papa ka gotra
3)dadi ka gotra
NOTE: Pehle NANI ka gotra me include hoya karta
inme shadi ni kar sakte kyuki va sister mani ja hai.

iske alava
1)apne gaam k ghawand me to kisi ladki se shadi ni kar sakta kyuki va b sister mani ja hai.
2)Sath gama hoya kare (har gaam k 7 gaam me bhaichara mana jaya kare) usme b tu kisi chorri te shadi na kar sakta kyuki va b sister mani ja se.

ye rules b kimme soch samajh k bana rakhe se.....

KATTU SHABS: Je koi same gotra me shadi kare h to us chorre me "BEBE KA LOG" kaha kare......aur is per kuch gazab gazab galli b se tane sun b rakhi hongi (yu public site se chorri b se aade,na to tane khul k b bata deta).

Aur agar ebb b tane koi confusion ho to gaam me ja k bol k dekh liye ki main to SWIACH te e shadi karunga.....mar mar k lath bandar jisa lal pacha bana denge.

P.S: Bhai Haryana me jo rules hain vo ye hain,baki states ka mane bera ni.

rekhasmriti
July 9th, 2012, 06:21 PM
sir g------
solution ka pata nahi

but i guess------dono mei se koi

Genetics mei PhD zaroor kar lega

( guys---no offeence---keep it up)




Ab tak aur kuchh hua ya na hua;

is bahane donoan paksh research to kar rahe hain;

sayad jaldi hi sarvmanya hal nikal aye!!!

Best of luck!!

vikasJAT
July 9th, 2012, 06:22 PM
Haryanavi me ek aur jumla yaad aya...

'बेबे का यार..'

bhai "bebe ka log" b kaha kre...........:)

rekhasmriti
July 9th, 2012, 06:27 PM
plz no offence to nyone


but i guess we r getting personal against one person

( plz bhaiyon-----that does mean i m on his side------n mujhe genetics ka bas A ,B C aata hai------n it is too complicated ----can not be understood thru blogs or websites------also i m also against of same gotra marriage )

TILAK
July 9th, 2012, 06:28 PM
No, we should not ostracize those people who are not following our customs/traditions its their wish We have no right to interfere in others life .

Sure
July 9th, 2012, 06:38 PM
No, we should not ostracize those people who are not following our customs/traditions its their wish We have no right to interfere in others life .

we are living in a society which have very strong bond and thats why morality and other lot many aspects are still alive with in us. we have full right to inerfere in social matters, after all these matters are going to affect our life and of next generations too.
Kya aapke ghar ke samne koi kuchh galat kam karega toh aap hone denge? Think twice before answering.

vikasJAT
July 9th, 2012, 06:39 PM
plz no offence to nyone


but i guess we r getting personal against one person

( plz bhaiyon-----that does mean i m on his side------n mujhe genetics ka bas A ,B C aata hai------n it is too complicated ----can not be understood thru blogs or websites------also i m also against of same gotra marriage )

jab tane genetics ka A,D aur C b na aata to itna kyu dhol bajave se...

Mrs Rekha mujhe ni pata aapko kya aata h aur kya ni,lekin ek baat suno aap,jab tak aapko khud kuch na paat ho to kuch mat likha karo...pehle uski kuch knowledge le fir yaha likh.

last me SORRY ya no offence likhne se discussion me participate ni kiya jata......agar kuch likhe ho to uski responsibility likhne wale ki hoti h.......

P.S:
Rekha ji aapne ek template bana rakhi hai jisme satart me SIR G likh do aur last me last me SORRY ya no offence likh do aur bich me kuch ni hota....so is template se hat kar kuch likho mam..aur ni likh sakte to discussion me aana he band kar do......

swaich
July 9th, 2012, 06:42 PM
A=SWAICH
B=SWAICH

C=SWIACH

A SWAICH h aur usme jo genes hain vo SWIACH k hain.
usne B se shadi ki jo Swaich hai jisme SWIACH k he genes hain....
unka jo bacha hoga vo h C usme 50% A k genes hain aur 50% B k genes hain.....
Ab C me total genes ek he type k hain jo ki SWIACH h......

If a person having different genes then his immune system should be strong......but if a person having same type of genes then immune system cause lots of genetic problems in next generation.

I think you understand.......otherwise go through some genetic engineering blogs or articles....

Bhai, first of all thanks for talking about the issue scientifically as opposed to many others here. I understand what you are trying to say. But here's my point -

You took the example of following :

A=SWAICH and B=SWAICH hence, C=SWAICH. This is fair but in reality, since A is also a product of two different genes: A = Swaich + Gotra X, and B = Swaich + Gotra Y. And even going back a step further, The 'Swaich' in A is also a mix of Swaich + another gotra. So is the case for Y. So going back to the first Swaich who was the original Swaich, everyone in the next generation is mixed. And with every generation the % of original Swaich genes has gone down.

So if lets assume A=Swaich (the first original Swaich guy who started the clan) marries B = Deol (assuming he marries outside the gotra as is the custom), their son C = 50% Swaich, C's son D = 25% Swaich and so on.....

Now this Swaich genes will reduce probably to .005% by the time of 10th or 12th generation.

Now lets again come back to your example i.e. A=SWAICH and B=SWAICH. How much Swaich genes do each one of them carry if they are 10th or 12th generation Swaich? The ans? Very small amount to cause risk.

And that was my whole argument. If considerable number of generations have passed and two families of the same gotra do not share the common known ancestor, then the % of actual gene of their gotra will reduce manifolds. Thus reducing the risk of decreasing immunity. Let me know if I am wrong somewhere.

swaich
July 9th, 2012, 06:48 PM
we are living in a society which have very strong bond and thats why morality and other lot many aspects are still alive with in us. we have full right to inerfere in social matters, after all these matters are going to affect our life and of next generations too.
Kya aapke ghar ke samne koi kuchh galat kam karega toh aap hone denge? Think twice before answering.


The extent of interference is the crux here. One can speak and try to convince on the issue. But using violence or initiating actions like ostracizing that cause violence are wrong and no person has the right to do it in the name of society.

Sure
July 9th, 2012, 06:56 PM
The extent of interference is the crux here. One can speak and try to convince on the issue. But using violence or initiating actions like ostracizing that cause violence are wrong and no person has the right to do it in the name of society.

I don think ostracizing is violence and if it is, than the person who acted in immoral way had done this first to society.

swaich
July 9th, 2012, 07:01 PM
I don think ostracizing is violence and if it is, than the person who acted in immoral way had done this first to society.

It causes violence. Hardly makes it less of a crime.

About the bold part, the cause or provocation (as you are putting it) still doesn't justify the action. No one, apart from law has the right to take life or cause the loss of life. Society cant trample the right of the individual as guaranteed by law.

Sure
July 9th, 2012, 07:21 PM
It causes violence. Hardly makes it less of a crime.

About the bold part, the cause or provocation (as you are putting it) still doesn't justify the action. No one, apart from law has the right to take life or cause the loss of life. Society cant trample the right of the individual as guaranteed by law.


Read that in bold again, why law have that right to take someones life? who made that law which gaurntee the right of individual? I hope we made that law, the peoples/society in bigger term parliament/govt and law must be according to social views, according to customs and tradition of particular region.

prashantacmet
July 9th, 2012, 08:07 PM
Bhai, first of all thanks for talking about the issue scientifically as opposed to many others here. I understand what you are trying to say. But here's my point -

You took the example of following :

A=SWAICH and B=SWAICH hence, C=SWAICH. This is fair but in reality, since A is also a product of two different genes: A = Swaich + Gotra X, and B = Swaich + Gotra Y. And even going back a step further, The 'Swaich' in A is also a mix of Swaich + another gotra. So is the case for Y. So going back to the first Swaich who was the original Swaich, everyone in the next generation is mixed. And with every generation the % of original Swaich genes has gone down.

So if lets assume A=Swaich (the first original Swaich guy who started the clan) marries B = Deol (assuming he marries outside the gotra as is the custom), their son C = 50% Swaich, C's son D = 25% Swaich and so on.....

Now this Swaich genes will reduce probably to .005% by the time of 10th or 12th generation.

Now lets again come back to your example i.e. A=SWAICH and B=SWAICH. How much Swaich genes do each one of them carry if they are 10th or 12th generation Swaich? The ans? Very small amount to cause risk.

And that was my whole argument. If considerable number of generations have passed and two families of the same gotra do not share the common known ancestor, then the % of actual gene of their gotra will reduce manifolds. Thus reducing the risk of decreasing immunity. Let me know if I am wrong somewhere.

Bhai siwach....just for a moment ..let me accept your theory...and may be your genetic theory is also correct...so just tell me one thing what is the name of your grandfather's grandfather?..I bet you don't know it...so that means you lost the name track of your ancestors..It is practically not possible to keep track of ancestors list of 8-10 generations..so your theory will fail in implementation.we will have to adopt something that is easy in implementation..GOTRA system is already there...so why to make life difficult........I think GOTRA system is still the best BET..what's say? :)

Vinod100keen
July 9th, 2012, 08:53 PM
kamaal haan yarron aap log science, Ph.D, social issues, genetic issues sab pe lad liye toh chalo Law ki bhi baat ho jaaye, first of Law Our Hindu law prohibit only two marriage those between sapindas and between Prohibited degree
1. Sapinda those whom we offers Pinds in Kanagat.
2. Prohibited degree means relationships like, Mother and son, Father and daughter, brother and sister. i.e means in half Blood ,full blood and Utrine blood , Full Blood means means when Both Son and daughter from same father and mother , Half blood when one from other mother but same father .and last when from same mother but by different fathers. and it also includes, Mama Bhanji i.e Father and daughter Chaha Bhatiji i.e Father and daughter. Tau and bhatiji same , Mausa and bahtiji , Mama and bhatiji and all of these son and daughters interse are Brother and sisters same in case of female also ,now the question is about same Gotra ,as per law, Gotra never means they are bound by Full ,half or Utrine blood, they are just considered as related by same community and law not prohibited community it prohibit only family, society declare them family then when a Daughter of any Jat family need help then no one came in front, when same chaha destroys other faily then Community not came in front nd always says its their family matter then why in case of marriage the word family become so big it includes whole Gotra and khap . at last cut it short being a Law expert and having knowledge of Hindu as well as other legal aspect , i can say one thing Gotra marriage is truly and fully valid in the eyes of law . Supreme court / High courts/ District courts, law at every state at every place agrees with that .

cutejaatsandeep
July 9th, 2012, 10:31 PM
No, we should not ostracize those people who are not following our customs/traditions its their wish We have no right to interfere in others life .
and sir nobody has right to destory our culture and tradition.whoever does it should be punished accordingly

cutejaatsandeep
July 9th, 2012, 10:39 PM
bhai yoo swaich jatt sikh see n jatt sikh and hindu jat ke culture mai zameeen asmaan ka farkk see..i hav seen it myself...but still eek jatt sikh kabhi apne gotra mai shaadi nahi kar sakta.....and teen gotra to bahut saare muslim jats bhi chodte hai.....kaade kaade ghaanii padai samaaaj ki doorgaati kar de hai.....swaich ke samajh mai konii aatii...thaaam chahe usnee phd karwa doo.....we should not listen to anybody's bullshit...we are proud of being a jaat and proud of our tradition set by our ancestors

swaich
July 9th, 2012, 10:54 PM
kamaal haan yarron aap log science, Ph.D, social issues, genetic issues sab pe lad liye toh chalo Law ki bhi baat ho jaaye, first of Law Our Hindu law prohibit only two marriage those between sapindas and between Prohibited degree
1. Sapinda those whom we offers Pinds in Kanagat.
2. Prohibited degree means relationships like, Mother and son, Father and daughter, brother and sister. i.e means in half Blood ,full blood and Utrine blood , Full Blood means means when Both Son and daughter from same father and mother , Half blood when one from other mother but same father .and last when from same mother but by different fathers. and it also includes, Mama Bhanji i.e Father and daughter Chaha Bhatiji i.e Father and daughter. Tau and bhatiji same , Mausa and bahtiji , Mama and bhatiji and all of these son and daughters interse are Brother and sisters same in case of female also ,now the question is about same Gotra ,as per law, Gotra never means they are bound by Full ,half or Utrine blood, they are just considered as related by same community and law not prohibited community it prohibit only family, society declare them family then when a Daughter of any Jat family need help then no one came in front, when same chaha destroys other faily then Community not came in front nd always says its their family matter then why in case of marriage the word family become so big it includes whole Gotra and khap . at last cut it short being a Law expert and having knowledge of Hindu as well as other legal aspect , i can say one thing Gotra marriage is truly and fully valid in the eyes of law . Supreme court / High courts/ District courts, law at every state at every place agrees with that .

Bhai sahb, yahan pe log genetic pe tabhi aaye kyunki woh is mudde par law ko mante hi nahin. Agar mante hote to yeh discussion kab ka khatam ho chuka hota.

swaich
July 9th, 2012, 10:58 PM
Read that in bold again, why law have that right to take someones life? who made that law which gaurntee the right of individual? I hope we made that law, the peoples/society in bigger term parliament/govt and law must be according to social views, according to customs and tradition of particular region.

Are you trying to say that sometimes a society's norms are above the law of the land?

I think laws of a country like ours was made after a careful consideration of society itself. Those people were probably more learned than me or you or anybody else on this forum for that matter.

swaich
July 9th, 2012, 11:01 PM
bhai yoo swaich jatt sikh see n jatt sikh and hindu jat ke culture mai zameeen asmaan ka farkk see..i hav seen it myself...but still eek jatt sikh kabhi apne gotra mai shaadi nahi kar sakta.....and teen gotra to bahut saare muslim jats bhi chodte hai.....kaade kaade ghaanii padai samaaaj ki doorgaati kar de hai.....swaich ke samajh mai konii aatii...thaaam chahe usnee phd karwa doo.....we should not listen to anybody's bullshit...we are proud of being a jaat and proud of our tradition set by our ancestors

Bhai bahut customs common hai...jatt sikhs aur hindu sikhs mein. Jatt sikhs too avoid marrying in the same gotras as Hindu jatts. But these things are becoming less and less strict nowadays. And people do not mind it the way it is in Hindu Jatts. Rest assured, nobody will ostracize or kill somebody or say the community's honor is at stake if a couple marries in the same gotra.

swaich
July 9th, 2012, 11:06 PM
Bhai siwach....just for a moment ..let me accept your theory...and may be your genetic theory is also correct...so just tell me one thing what is the name of your grandfather's grandfather?..I bet you don't know it...so that means you lost the name track of your ancestors..It is practically not possible to keep track of ancestors list of 8-10 generations..so your theory will fail in implementation.we will have to adopt something that is easy in implementation..GOTRA system is already there...so why to make life difficult........I think GOTRA system is still the best BET..what's say? :)

Good point. :) Reversing your own logic around, you might marry someone from the different gotra but it might be that you had a common ancestor some generations back. So there is no guarantee either which way.

And if you think a little more, since all gotras have common origins and all Jatts have strictly married within the community, we are the most genetically homogenous community. We are all mixed (increasing the risk of genetic problems) as we have married within the community for hundreds of years.

DrRajpalSingh
July 9th, 2012, 11:23 PM
Good point. :) Reversing your own logic around, you might marry someone from the different gotra but it might be that you had a common ancestor some generations back. So there is no guarantee either which way.

And if you think a little more, since all gotras have common origins and all Jatts have strictly married within the community, we are the most genetically homogenous community. We are all mixed (increasing the risk of genetic problems) as we have married within the community for hundreds of years.


I think both the protagonists and antagonists of the same gotra marriages have used all the ashtars and shastras in their armoury; so time has arrived to take rest, if you please. Cease fire, re-equip with latest arguments supported by reference material and we can meet again !!!



Thanks

tarzon
July 10th, 2012, 12:29 AM
Are you trying to say that sometimes a society's norms are above the law of the land?

I think laws of a country like ours was made after a careful consideration of society itself. Those people were probably more learned than me or you or anybody else on this forum for that matter.

Jaspreet,

Our country has lots of diversity. The law has been formulated by some person like you and me, the law maker are not God, so we can't take the word of law maker as Holy Bhagwat Gita words in each and every case. In the history of Independent India our law has been already amended 100's of times.

The lawmaker can't impose a law on whole society, if that law doesn't match with the tradition of the that particular society.

As avoiding Gotra system is a respected tradition among Jat community, then Jat have the full right to practice this tradition as a society, nobody have the right to teach a lesson to Jat community on this issue. If Law is not formulated as per this tradition, then law should have to amended in such a way that Gotra system will get legal sanctity.

We should have to spread awareness in our coming generation about our gotra system tradition and present in that manner that they should have to feel proud on this tradition, as this tradition is no way a regressive tradition.

However, I don't support any kind of killing of any couple even if they breach this Gotra line. But If any couple breach this line they should not have to live at the same place where people won't respect this relationship..they should have leave that place and settled at any far area where people don't bother about gotra and family should allow them settle somewhere else instead of killing them. Nobody have the right to kill anyone. Such couple also do not try to become superman like we'll fight with whole society...no matter what will happen!

kapdal
July 10th, 2012, 05:19 AM
A quick look at last few pages and I don't understand what the disagreement is about. It seems that everyone is making the same point, but still disagreeing.

Before you go into the science question, can anyone tell me why is the science question important? Are you following gotra bhaichara because it is scientific? Are you going to stop following it if it was unscientific?

My father gives some token money to any Dalal girl he comes across when he is visiting any village on a social visit and finds one married in the neighborhood. Is there anything scientific about? He does it as the bhaichara is ingrained in him. It doesn't make any difference if it is scientific or not.

You follow customs and rituals as a matter of faith, not because they have been proven in a lab. It is something that ties you to a community, makes you a part of a group.
All this bickering about proving how scientific gotra bhaichara is only shows our need to get legitimacy for it. If the community wants to follow it, no one can stop it from following it. It is suffice to say that we believe in gotra bhaichara, hence we follow. No other arguments are needed just like no argument is needed in going to a temple or doing a namaaz.

I strongly feel that we should stop talking about science when we talk about gotra system. The logic being debated is that of diversification of genetic pool and you get sufficient diversification as long as you are not systematically inbreeding. As far as genetics is concerned, it is equally likely that you get one from male or female side. Our system gives more weightage to paternal side as you leave all generations of your own gotra (your paternal lineage), your mother's gotra (your mother's paternal lineage) and your dadi's (dadi's paternal lineage). But this doesn't cover some maternal sides like mother's mother's lineage or father's mother's mother's lineage. So theoretically our custom promotes more diversification but with much more weightage to paternal lineages. From what I gathered, both sides were making broadly the same arguments. It is not something you can prove as either scientific or unscientific, so it is not really worth doing your PhD on.

DrRajpalSingh
July 10th, 2012, 06:26 AM
Jaspreet,

Our country has lots of diversity. The law has been formulated by some person like you and me, the law maker are not God, so we can't take the word of law maker as Holy Bhagwat Gita words in each and every case. In the history of Independent India our law has been already amended 100's of times.

The lawmaker can't impose a law on whole society, if that law doesn't match with the tradition of the that particular society.

As avoiding Gotra system is a respected tradition among Jat community, then Jat have the full right to practice this tradition as a society, nobody have the right to teach a lesson to Jat community on this issue. If Law is not formulated as per this tradition, then law should have to amended in such a way that Gotra system will get legal sanctity.

We should have to spread awareness in our coming generation about our gotra system tradition and present in that manner that they should have to feel proud on this tradition, as this tradition is no way a regressive tradition.

However, I don't support any kind of killing of any couple even if they breach this Gotra line. But If any couple breach this line they should not have to live at the same place where people won't respect this relationship..they should have leave that place and settled at any far area where people don't bother about gotra and family should allow them settle somewhere else instead of killing them. Nobody have the right to kill anyone. Such couple also do not try to become superman like we'll fight with whole society...no matter what will happen!

Excellent Post. No better summing up of the thread seems possible! Hence, all must say in unison, Happy ending of the thread and from here Adieu!! Thanks.

swaich
July 10th, 2012, 08:08 AM
I think both the protagonists and antagonists of the same gotra marriages have used all the ashtars and shastras in their armoury; so time has arrived to take rest, if you please. Cease fire, re-equip with latest arguments supported by reference material and we can meet again !!!
Thanks

While your attempts to moderate the discussion seem laudable, they are not without its own motives. You yourself have taken one of the sides in this discussion and have appeared as a moderator conveniently whenever the argument seems to be shifting against the side your support. You didnt appear to moderate when personal comments and insinuation were made. You didnt come in when people questioned the law. I see this a false show of impartiality and a selective attitude of yours to play peace-maker.

As for reference material, I have provided enough to close the scientific and genetic side of the debate. And I had to provide material since the so called experts ridiculed me on my notion of transfer and inheritance of genes from a generation to next. And mind you these genetics facts were all too well known to me and in fact were already mentioned in a couple of posts by another clear-headed members in page 5 or 6 of this thread. But I still had to provide them as people were hell bent on negating these simple fundamentals of genetics. So its up to the other party to furnish reference material. And please feel free to help them.

swaich
July 10th, 2012, 08:16 AM
A quick look at last few pages and I don't understand what the disagreement is about. It seems that everyone is making the same point, but still disagreeing.

Before you go into the science question, can anyone tell me why is the science question important? Are you following gotra bhaichara because it is scientific? Are you going to stop following it if it was unscientific?

My father gives some token money to any Dalal girl he comes across when he is visiting any village on a social visit and finds one married in the neighborhood. Is there anything scientific about? He does it as the bhaichara is ingrained in him. It doesn't make any difference if it is scientific or not.

You follow customs and rituals as a matter of faith, not because they have been proven in a lab. It is something that ties you to a community, makes you a part of a group.
All this bickering about proving how scientific gotra bhaichara is only shows our need to get legitimacy for it. If the community wants to follow it, no one can stop it from following it. It is suffice to say that we believe in gotra bhaichara, hence we follow. No other arguments are needed just like no argument is needed in going to a temple or doing a namaaz.

I strongly feel that we should stop talking about science when we talk about gotra system. The logic being debated is that of diversification of genetic pool and you get sufficient diversification as long as you are not systematically inbreeding. As far as genetics is concerned, it is equally likely that you get one from male or female side. Our system gives more weightage to paternal side as you leave all generations of your own gotra (your paternal lineage), your mother's gotra (your mother's paternal lineage) and your dadi's (dadi's paternal lineage). But this doesn't cover some maternal sides like mother's mother's lineage or father's mother's mother's lineage. So theoretically our custom promotes more diversification but with much more weightage to paternal lineages. From what I gathered, both sides were making broadly the same arguments. It is not something you can prove as either scientific or unscientific, so it is not really worth doing your PhD on.

Ageed, the issue should be debated as a custom and tradition rather than bringing any scientific angles into it. But people wanted justification for their customs and sought to defend it by saying the custom reduced genetic in-breeding. The science angle comes in when we talk of the law and of the effects of harsh measures taken by Khaps. These measures have led to death and to ostracization and social boycotts of people. So when law is with you, science is with you what right does a society have to harm a couple and take law into their own hands?

swaich
July 10th, 2012, 08:42 AM
Jaspreet,

Our country has lots of diversity. The law has been formulated by some person like you and me, the law maker are not God, so we can't take the word of law maker as Holy Bhagwat Gita words in each and every case. In the history of Independent India our law has been already amended 100's of times.

The lawmaker can't impose a law on whole society, if that law doesn't match with the tradition of the that particular society.

As avoiding Gotra system is a respected tradition among Jat community, then Jat have the full right to practice this tradition as a society, nobody have the right to teach a lesson to Jat community on this issue. If Law is not formulated as per this tradition, then law should have to amended in such a way that Gotra system will get legal sanctity.

We should have to spread awareness in our coming generation about our gotra system tradition and present in that manner that they should have to feel proud on this tradition, as this tradition is no way a regressive tradition.

However, I don't support any kind of killing of any couple even if they breach this Gotra line. But If any couple breach this line they should not have to live at the same place where people won't respect this relationship..they should have leave that place and settled at any far area where people don't bother about gotra and family should allow them settle somewhere else instead of killing them. Nobody have the right to kill anyone. Such couple also do not try to become superman like we'll fight with whole society...no matter what will happen!

You have made a good point that he law too is after all for the people and should be amended to suit the people if the so desire.

But the fact of the matter is that law doesnt change for any particular community except for religious norms. Our constitution guarantees the same basic laws and right to everyone irrespective of their caste and community. Its only religious beliefs that are left untampered by the courts of law. And even then people have tried to take same gotra marriage into the courts. More than 40 years ago SC decided on a same gotra case and quotes religious Hindu texts to throw out the case against same gotra marriage. Even a few years when Khap issue was in media highlights, a man tried to go to court to seek ban on same gotra marriages. The case was thrown out again.

The trouble with society's laws is that they arent written down anywhere and society itself is so dynamic and in a state of constant flux that it changes its norms very frequently. While in the case of religion, because there is a code written down in religious text, framing laws is simpler. But society's norms aren't collected in one place or written down anywhere. So if one community wishes to change the laws to suit itself then it would have to show a text where all laws are written and prescribed to the members of the community. Apart from that the only way to amend the laws is to seek a referendum on the issue. If all Jats agree with it then it could be made a law. But that will open a can of worms as we have literally thousands of communities and law cant be amended to suit everyone.

DrRajpalSingh
July 10th, 2012, 09:05 AM
While your attempts to moderate the discussion seem laudable, they are not without its own motives. You yourself have taken one of the sides in this discussion and have appeared as a moderator conveniently whenever the argument seems to be shifting against the side your support. You didnt appear to moderate when personal comments and insinuation were made. You didnt come in when people questioned the law. I see this a false show of impartiality and a selective attitude of yours to play peace-maker. .......

Mr. Swaich,

I fear you are in hurry to bring about a revolution in the tradition bound ancient civilisation of India by adopting tough postures and expressing radical views without understanding the intricate situation in which we are placed today. The outburst of IT and consequent effects have shocked the Indian traditional social set up beyond limits and their sense of pride in the ancient system is shaken. They are trying to understand how to face the changing scenario. To my mind time is the best panacea in such situations which should be used to educate them in a moderate manner.
Further,I am always open to discuss issues and posts not persons. Yes, your anguish is understandable on the point that you as a person was target of comments in some posts; this was unwanted and avoidable in such serious debates. But both the sides seemed provoked and none is to blame for it.

Further, I am of the view, judicious mixture of traditional wisdom and enactment of laws of the land based on scientifically proven facts could usher in a silent revolution in the march forward of the multi-cultural fabric of Indian society. Instead of radical departure from ancient cultural and moral path gradual enlightenment of the society on the need of adoption of scientific temper by educating, not denouncing their ancient culture and heritage, is needed to bring about some sort of social revolution. It cannot be forced by any sort of coercion as is proved by the set back to Family Planning Drive in mid 1970's faced. The same opponents now are educated to adopt it and are adopting it willingly.
Therefore, I am of the opinion that the law of the land is supreme but law enforcement is for the protection of individual as well as collective safety of life and property of the nation.
Rest you are free to carry on your argumentative debate based on 'scientific reference material' so long as you wish. My good wishes. Keep it up.

Thanks

vikasJAT
July 10th, 2012, 09:23 AM
Good point. :) Reversing your own logic around, you might marry someone from the different gotra but it might be that you had a common ancestor some generations back. So there is no guarantee either which way.

And if you think a little more, since all gotras have common origins and all Jatts have strictly married within the community, we are the most genetically homogenous community. We are all mixed (increasing the risk of genetic problems) as we have married within the community for hundreds of years.

bhai fer tu kehna k chave hai???????????????
agar depth me ja k dekhe to ye manav jatti ek he insaan se aayi h..........
jo ab h uski baat kar.
chal man liya tu open minded banda h to tu nu bata ki apne ghar me chacha ki chorri ya tau ki chorri te shadi kr lega???????????
iska jawab de pehle to................

aaj tu nu keh h ki same gotra me shadi thek h........kal ne tere jisi vichardhara aale 3-4 bhai aur hoge to ghar ki ghar me e shadhne ki bolenge.....ye maha bakwas kyukar man lega JAT samaj?????????????????????????????

swaich
July 10th, 2012, 09:30 AM
bhai fer tu kehna k chave hai???????????????
agar depth me ja k dekhe to ye manav jatti ek he insaan se aayi h..........
jo ab h uski baat kar.
chal man liya tu open minded banda h to tu nu bata ki apne ghar me chacha ki chorri ya tau ki chorri te shadi kr lega???????????
iska jawab de pehle to................

aaj tu nu keh h ki same gotra me shadi thek h........kal ne tere jisi vichardhara aale 3-4 bhai aur hoge to ghar ki ghar me e shadhne ki bolenge.....ye maha bakwas kyukar man lega JAT samaj?????????????????????????????

Bhai..main sirf itna keh raha hun ki agar hum jis cheez pe arhe hue hain...uska koi rational ta scintific logic hai hi nahin...to kya uske liye logo ka boycott karna ya itni strict punishment dena ki wo mare jayen uchit hai?

Main yeh nahi kehta ki apni cousin se shaadi kar lo. Kabhi nahi. Par yeh jaan ne ke baad ki same-gotra marriage se koi medical risk nahi hai, hamare samaj ka reaction to change hona chaiye na..? All I am trying to achieve through this discussion is make people understand that violence or social boycott is not an answer to this perceived crime.

swaich
July 10th, 2012, 09:45 AM
Mr. Swaich,

I fear you are in hurry to bring about a revolution in the tradition bound ancient civilisation of India by adopting tough postures and expressing radical views without understanding the intricate situation in which we are placed today. The outburst of IT and consequent effects have shocked the Indian traditional social set up beyond limits and their sense of pride in the ancient system is shaken. They are trying to understand how to face the changing scenario. To my mind time is the best panacea in such situations which should be used to educate them in a moderate manner.
Further,I am always open to discuss issues and posts not persons. Yes, your anguish is understandable on the point that you as a person was target of comments in some posts; this was unwanted and avoidable in such serious debates. But both the sides seemed provoked and none is to blame for it.

Further, I am of the view, judicious mixture of traditional wisdom and enactment of laws of the land based on scientifically proven facts could usher in a silent revolution in the march forward of the multi-cultural fabric of Indian society. Instead of radical departure from ancient cultural and moral path gradual enlightenment of the society on the need of adoption of scientific temper by educating, not denouncing their ancient culture and heritage, is needed to bring about some sort of social revolution. It cannot be forced by any sort of coercion as is proved by the set back to Family Planning Drive in mid 1970's faced. The same opponents now are educated to adopt it and are adopting it willingly.
Therefore, I am of the opinion that the law of the land is supreme but law enforcement is for the protection of individual as well as collective safety of life and property of the nation.
Rest you are free to carry on your argumentative debate based on 'scientific reference material' so long as you wish. My good wishes. Keep it up.

Thanks

I do not give myself so much credit or importance to believe that I am on a mission to change the course of society. That would be an extremely hilarious proposition.

I believe we are here to discuss our opinion on issues that affect our community as logically as possible. And logically almost always involves science. If people bring it down to personal level, for whatever reason it shows them in a very bad light. At that point they have already lost the discussion and it defeats the purpose of the forum.

As for you, I was saddened to see that you couldnt take a neutral approach in spite of your experience and educational background. But I guess, we are all human after all and will pick sides for whatever reason.

And as I said, I have already furnished enough reference material to settle the scientific side of things. I always maintained that the debate is more about customs and traditions as scientific basis is lacking.

Sure
July 10th, 2012, 09:54 AM
Jaspreet,

Our country has lots of diversity. The law has been formulated by some person like you and me, the law maker are not God, so we can't take the word of law maker as Holy Bhagwat Gita words in each and every case. In the history of Independent India our law has been already amended 100's of times.

The lawmaker can't impose a law on whole society, if that law doesn't match with the tradition of the that particular society.

As avoiding Gotra system is a respected tradition among Jat community, then Jat have the full right to practice this tradition as a society, nobody have the right to teach a lesson to Jat community on this issue. If Law is not formulated as per this tradition, then law should have to amended in such a way that Gotra system will get legal sanctity.

We should have to spread awareness in our coming generation about our gotra system tradition and present in that manner that they should have to feel proud on this tradition, as this tradition is no way a regressive tradition.

However, I don't support any kind of killing of any couple even if they breach this Gotra line. But If any couple breach this line they should not have to live at the same place where people won't respect this relationship..they should have leave that place and settled at any far area where people don't bother about gotra and family should allow them settle somewhere else instead of killing them. Nobody have the right to kill anyone. Such couple also do not try to become superman like we'll fight with whole society...no matter what will happen!
Thanks Vivek, good one and to the point. some one take these views or not its his/her coice.

Sure
July 10th, 2012, 10:14 AM
My request to JatLanders that Mr. Swiach is not going to stop and no one can make him understand as he is very very learned person and have all directions open. Dada Lakhmichand na kaha hai Nugre Manas ke chogarde na rah. Inka koi Bharosa nah, ye Bua Bahan na tak le. So I just lik to mention ke aise insaano se toh ghar walon ko bhi khatra rahata hai. Society ki baat toh alag hai. So better stop and undersatand that nugra manas aankh badal ja samajhdar ki mar ho sa.

vikasJAT
July 10th, 2012, 10:39 AM
Bhai, first of all thanks for talking about the issue scientifically as opposed to many others here. I understand what you are trying to say. But here's my point -



You took the example of following :

A=SWAICH and B=SWAICH hence, C=SWAICH. This is fair but in reality, since A is also a product of two different genes: A = Swaich + Gotra X, and B = Swaich + Gotra Y. And even going back a step further, The 'Swaich' in A is also a mix of Swaich + another gotra. So is the case for Y. So going back to the first Swaich who was the original Swaich, everyone in the next generation is mixed. And with every generation the % of original Swaich genes has gone down.

bhai agar A aur B k maa babu b teri dhal same gotra me yakin rakhte honge to inke genes b same honge............aur agar aise he same gotra chalta raha to next generation ko problem hogi he.

So if lets assume A=Swaich (the first original Swaich guy who started the clan) marries B = Deol (assuming he marries outside the gotra as is the custom), their son C = 50% Swaich, C's son D = 25% Swaich and so on.....

Now this Swaich genes will reduce probably to .005% by the time of 10th or 12th generation.

Now lets again come back to your example i.e. A=SWAICH and B=SWAICH. How much Swaich genes do each one of them carry if they are 10th or 12th generation Swaich? The ans? Very small amount to cause risk.
BHAI agar A and B dono Swiach hain (same gotra) aur dono shadi karte hain aur C ka janam dete hain to usme dono k 50% genes hote hain.means sare genes SWIACH k hue.
aur scientific way me dekhe to parents k genes different hone chahiye jis se child me 50% alag alag genes ho taki genetic problem na ho.
same gotra me marriage se genetic problem hoti h..........tere reference k liye ek link send karunga padh lena.

And that was my whole argument. If considerable number of generations have passed and two families of the same gotra do not share the common known ancestor, then the % of actual gene of their gotra will reduce manifolds. Thus reducing the risk of decreasing immunity. Let me know if I am wrong somewhere.

Genes and genetics - related parents

A relationship between related people, such as siblings or cousins, is called consanguinity. Related parents are more likely than unrelated parents to have children with health problems or disorders. The closer the genetic relationship between the parents, the greater the risk of birth defects for their children. Genetic counselling is available for a couple who suspect they may be related.
Related parents are more likely than unrelated parents to have children with health problems or genetic disorders. This is because the two parents share one or more common ancestors and so carry some of the same genetic material. If both partners carry the same inherited altered (mutated) gene, their offspring are more likely to have a genetic disorder.
Ordinarily, two unrelated parents will have enough variation in their genes to ensure that their child has at least one normal copy of each gene. However, people with a common ancestor may each carry a copy of the same altered gene. This can make genetic disorders more likely to occur.

For more detail plz check this Link:
http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/Genes_and_genetics_related_parents

vikasJAT
July 10th, 2012, 11:05 AM
My request to JatLanders that Mr. Swiach is not going to stop and no one can make him understand as he is very very learned person and have all directions open. Dada Lakhmichand na kaha hai Nugre Manas ke chogarde na rah. Inka koi Bharosa nah, ye Bua Bahan na tak le. So I just lik to mention ke aise insaano se toh ghar walon ko bhi khatra rahata hai. Society ki baat toh alag hai. So better stop and undersatand that nugra manas aankh badal ja samajhdar ki mar ho sa.

Surender bhai ek tarikka aur se rokan ka ki same gotra me shadi k bad log jo jo galiya diya kare vo sari likh deni chahiye aade....k bera ve gali padh k kimme asar e hoga......

yu hoye public forum gaya na to same gotra pe gaam me jo jo bola kare va sara chep dete......per thodi bot sharam karni pad ri se.

vikasJAT
July 10th, 2012, 11:09 AM
My request to JatLanders that Mr. Swiach is not going to stop and no one can make him understand as he is very very learned person and have all directions open. Dada Lakhmichand na kaha hai Nugre Manas ke chogarde na rah. Inka koi Bharosa nah, ye Bua Bahan na tak le. So I just lik to mention ke aise insaano se toh ghar walon ko bhi khatra rahata hai. Society ki baat toh alag hai. So better stop and undersatand that nugra manas aankh badal ja samajhdar ki mar ho sa.

dekhte jao je nue log educated hote rahe aur open minded hote rahe to isa b time dur ni jab log ghar ki ghar me shadi karenge........

kalug ka next version aa liya lage se......

vikasJAT
July 10th, 2012, 11:15 AM
Bhai..main sirf itna keh raha hun ki agar hum jis cheez pe arhe hue hain...uska koi rational ta scintific logic hai hi nahin...to kya uske liye logo ka boycott karna ya itni strict punishment dena ki wo mare jayen uchit hai?

Main yeh nahi kehta ki apni cousin se shaadi kar lo. Kabhi nahi. Par yeh jaan ne ke baad ki same-gotra marriage se koi medical risk nahi hai, hamare samaj ka reaction to change hona chaiye na..? All I am trying to achieve through this discussion is make people understand that violence or social boycott is not an answer to this perceived crime.

Swiach bhai baat h ya ki sidha koi kisi ne ni marta............pehle usne pyar te samjhave se....agar fer b na mane to apni izzat aur samaj ki parampara bachan khater marna b pade se......aur yu marna koi galat ni hai.

aur yu marne wala decision unke parents ka khud ka hota h bhai......

aur ek baat kahu per kehna ni chau tha......itni aag lagri se jo ki same gotra me (jo ki dekhe to BEBE hoyi) shadi karan me b saharm koni......kal ne apne ghar ki chorri gail shadi karan me b sharam na mane.......yu ghatiya kaam rokan khater to bhai ise ise OPEN MINDED marne e padenge.

Sure
July 10th, 2012, 11:16 AM
Surender bhai ek tarikka aur se rokan ka ki same gotra me shadi k bad log jo jo galiya diya kare vo sari likh deni chahiye aade....k bera ve gali padh k kimme asar e hoga......

yu hoye public forum gaya na to same gotra pe gaam me jo jo bola kare va sara chep dete......per thodi bot sharam karni pad ri se.

Sharm Bhi haam na ye karni padegi ees na nah aave. Sharm ka koi scientific reason ho toh aave, yo bhai sidh kar dega ki sharm niri bakwas hove kare sa.

vikasJAT
July 10th, 2012, 11:24 AM
Sharm Bhi haam na ye karni padegi ees na nah aave. Sharm ka koi scientific reason ho toh aave, yo bhai sidh kar dega ki sharm niri bakwas hove kare sa.
Surender bhai ek gazab ki new dekhi thi 1-2 saal pehle TV per,aaj is bhai ne dekh k samajh saka sa ki va kyu India me dikhai:

japan me ek plastic ki chorri bana rakhi se as a remote ki tarah work kre se. TV me news me b aayi thi bot pehle.
mane to lage va b kise open minded ne banayi hogi.....hahhahahhahahhha

to ye sare open minded aur same gotra ne thek samajhne wale wa plastic wali remote japan te order kar lo......KHAP b kuch na bole aur Gaam ki chorriya ki izzat b bachi rehgi.

vikasJAT
July 10th, 2012, 11:29 AM
While your attempts to moderate the discussion seem laudable, they are not without its own motives. You yourself have taken one of the sides in this discussion and have appeared as a moderator conveniently whenever the argument seems to be shifting against the side your support. You didnt appear to moderate when personal comments and insinuation were made. You didnt come in when people questioned the law. I see this a false show of impartiality and a selective attitude of yours to play peace-maker.

As for reference material, I have provided enough to close the scientific and genetic side of the debate. And I had to provide material since the so called experts ridiculed me on my notion of transfer and inheritance of genes from a generation to next. And mind you these genetics facts were all too well known to me and in fact were already mentioned in a couple of posts by another clear-headed members in page 5 or 6 of this thread. But I still had to provide them as people were hell bent on negating these simple fundamentals of genetics. So its up to the other party to furnish reference material. And please feel free to help them.

Swiach tera naam se Jaspreet.....naam te lage tu se punjab side ka.....Haryana ya U.P ka Jat to koni.

bhai Punjab me aur yaha ki parampara me b bot jyda difference se.....Punjab me sirf ek gotra choda ja se baki mama-fufa me shadi ho ja se.....(main 5 saal Jalandhar me raha hu,max. friends wahi k se to bera se thoda bahut).
ebb je tu Haryana aur U.P ne Punjab banana chave se to bhai vo ho hove ni balki "TERE BANGAD JAROOR KLAG SAKE SE, KISE GAAM ME JA K NA BOL DIYE KI SAME GOTRA ME SHADI KA KANOON AANA CHAHIYE,NE TE TERA KANOON JAROOR BANA DENGE".

Free advice se le le............

P.S: Bhai tane samjhan ki koshish kara sa je samajh e ja te,baki fer b na samjhe to gaam me ja kar discussion kar liye jyda information with action mil jagi.....KAM LIKHE NE JYDA SAMAJHNA......

raj
July 10th, 2012, 11:30 AM
Human is a social Animal & we made some rules for our society to follow,so that we can live in a civilized way otherwise same old thing will come again Male human & female human that's it. but i am against physical punishment.

tarzon
July 10th, 2012, 11:32 AM
You have made a good point that he law too is after all for the people and should be amended to suit the people if the so desire.

But the fact of the matter is that law doesnt change for any particular community except for religious norms. Our constitution guarantees the same basic laws and right to everyone irrespective of their caste and community. Its only religious beliefs that are left untampered by the courts of law. And even then people have tried to take same gotra marriage into the courts. More than 40 years ago SC decided on a same gotra case and quotes religious Hindu texts to throw out the case against same gotra marriage. Even a few years when Khap issue was in media highlights, a man tried to go to court to seek ban on same gotra marriages. The case was thrown out again.

The trouble with society's laws is that they arent written down anywhere and society itself is so dynamic and in a state of constant flux that it changes its norms very frequently. While in the case of religion, because there is a code written down in religious text, framing laws is simpler. But society's norms aren't collected in one place or written down anywhere. So if one community wishes to change the laws to suit itself then it would have to show a text where all laws are written and prescribed to the members of the community. Apart from that the only way to amend the laws is to seek a referendum on the issue. If all Jats agree with it then it could be made a law. But that will open a can of worms as we have literally thousands of communities and law cant be amended to suit everyone.

Jaspreet,

As far as mine understanding of the law, there is no such prohibition that law can't be formulated for any particular community. The Hindu Marriage Act also have indifference itself, The HMA prohibit marriage with first cousin among Hindus like marriage with Mama's son/daughter, Bua's son/daughter. But the same HMA also exempt some Hindu communities specially from south India where their tradition allow to form matrimonial relationship with Mama's son/daughter, Bua's son/daughter.

So the same law can null and void a matrimonial relationship in some part of the India and the same law gives a legal sanctity to the same relationship in some other part of India.

Are the south Indian are not Indian? Why there is no uniformity in HMA here? In which text or holy book it is written that Hindus can form the matrimonial relationship with Mama's son/daughter, Bua's son/daughter?

There tradition is tradition and got a legal sanctity and our tradition is bullshit and won't get any legal sanctity. This is nonsense and I can't buy this argument. As south Indian tradition allow to form some relationship, similarly our tradition prohibit to form relationship within father and mother gotras and It should also have to get a legal sanctity at least for Jat community or any other community who follows the same tradition.

There are 1000's of Gotras among Jat community, if as per our tradition, we avoid 2-3 gotras at the time matrimonial relationship, it doesn't make any difference. We still have 1000's of gotras to form the relationship. On Jatland more than 3000 Jat gotra are listed or even we should have to do Inter caste marriage, the whole world is open.

As far as SC or any other court decision is concern, the court gave their decision as per the existing law, as there is no mention of Gotra in existing law the court are bound to reject such request.

The law make sit in the Parliament and they make the law. If our gotra system will get legal sanctity then court will give their decisions as per that law.

swaich
July 10th, 2012, 11:36 AM
bhai agar A aur B k maa babu b teri dhal same gotra me yakin rakhte honge to inke genes b same honge............aur agar aise he same gotra chalta raha to next generation ko problem hogi he.

BHAI agar A and B dono Swiach hain (same gotra) aur dono shadi karte hain aur C ka janam dete hain to usme dono k 50% genes hote hain.means sare genes SWIACH k hue.
aur scientific way me dekhe to parents k genes different hone chahiye jis se child me 50% alag alag genes ho taki genetic problem na ho.

same gotra me marriage se genetic problem hoti h..........tere reference k liye ek link send karunga padh lena.



Bhai main..current times ki baat kar raha hun jab gotra ko bane hue kayi 100 saal beet chuke hain. Aur agar hum ab tak sare rule strictly follow kar rahe the to fir to kisi gotra ki same gotra se mixing hona mushkil hi hai na. Matlab ki itne saalon se same gotra marriage avoid karte rehne se ab hamne genetic risk almost khatam kar diya hai. Kya aap is baat se agree karte hain? Agar karte hain tabhi main next point rakhunga.

puneetlakra
July 10th, 2012, 11:38 AM
A quick look at last few pages and I don't understand what the disagreement is about. It seems that everyone is making the same point, but still disagreeing.

Before you go into the science question, can anyone tell me why is the science question important? Are you following gotra bhaichara because it is scientific? Are you going to stop following it if it was unscientific?

My father gives some token money to any Dalal girl he comes across when he is visiting any village on a social visit and finds one married in the neighborhood. Is there anything scientific about? He does it as the bhaichara is ingrained in him. It doesn't make any difference if it is scientific or not.

You follow customs and rituals as a matter of faith, not because they have been proven in a lab. It is something that ties you to a community, makes you a part of a group.
All this bickering about proving how scientific gotra bhaichara is only shows our need to get legitimacy for it. If the community wants to follow it, no one can stop it from following it. It is suffice to say that we believe in gotra bhaichara, hence we follow. No other arguments are needed just like no argument is needed in going to a temple or doing a namaaz.

I strongly feel that we should stop talking about science when we talk about gotra system. The logic being debated is that of diversification of genetic pool and you get sufficient diversification as long as you are not systematically inbreeding. As far as genetics is concerned, it is equally likely that you get one from male or female side. Our system gives more weightage to paternal side as you leave all generations of your own gotra (your paternal lineage), your mother's gotra (your mother's paternal lineage) and your dadi's (dadi's paternal lineage). But this doesn't cover some maternal sides like mother's mother's lineage or father's mother's mother's lineage. So theoretically our custom promotes more diversification but with much more weightage to paternal lineages. From what I gathered, both sides were making broadly the same arguments. It is not something you can prove as either scientific or unscientific, so it is not really worth doing your PhD on.
Mr.kapil dalal,
Yes their is significance in giving money to the girl of your gotras while visiting their place , In past time mainly in Mughal era our women are not going out for any livilyhood except their own fields and they don't have any money to use in any emergency time so our elders starts giving money to them while they are not at their parental home and going to her husbands home from parental home , and another important thing is how bhaichara is ingrained the logic behind is when you know someone who is looking and living around you , you feel hesitating in doing any sort of illegal work because what the knows will say this thought always bothers you and forcing you not do any sinful act.


When raja Harshvardhan introduced the Khap system , that is the best system to get consensus over any issue, when we go out of our village /home then we have to visit our gatras girl as par told and followed by our elders ,by this way can know their thoughts and conditions and any issue, this led helps our panchyaats to take appropriate step.
When we met somebody many times and recognize them well then it also ingrained the bhaichara

Sure
July 10th, 2012, 11:41 AM
Swiach bhai baat h ya ki sidha koi kisi ne ni marta............pehle usne pyar te samjhave se....agar fer b na mane to apni izzat aur samaj ki parampara bachan khater marna b pade se......aur yu marna koi galat ni hai.

aur yu marne wala decision unke parents ka khud ka hota h bhai......

aur ek baat kahu per kehna ni chau tha......itni aag lagri se jo ki same gotra me (jo ki dekhe to BEBE hoyi) shadi karan me b saharm koni......kal ne apne ghar ki chorri gail shadi karan me b sharam na mane.......yu ghatiya kaam rokan khater to bhai ise ise OPEN MINDED marne e padenge.

Galati sudharne ke char pravdhan banaye hue hain.
Ved, vaani, Dand, Bhed. Ved yani gyan, pahle aadmi ko gyan do, gyan dene ke baad bhi baat samajh mein aa jaye toh thheek hai otherwise we must use Vani, oose kade sabdon ka prayog karke samajhana chahiye, agar fir bhi nahi manta hai toh wah Dand ka adhikari hai aur last mein aise aadmi se bhed (ostracized) karna hi uchit hi. Totally infected persons are not supposed to be the part of society.

vikasJAT
July 10th, 2012, 11:41 AM
Bhai main..current times ki baat kar raha hun jab gotra ko bane hue kayi 100 saal beet chuke hain. Aur agar hum ab tak sare rule strictly follow kar rahe the to fir to kisi gotra ki same gotra se mixing hona mushkil hi hai na. Matlab ki itne saalon se same gotra marriage avoid karte rehne se ab hamne genetic risk almost khatam kar diya hai. Kya aap is baat se agree karte hain? Agar karte hain tabhi main next point rakhunga.

chal man li pehle same gotra ki vajah se genetic problem ni hui...
ab tu bol raha h ki same gotra me shadi thek h koi objection ni hona chahiye.......manta hu starting me genetic problem jyda ni hogi...lekin agar same gotra marriage chali to next generations me genetic problems hogi he hogi....

ab tujhe is se jyda main ni samjha sakta.....tune scientific reason yaha likha to uska b todd tere samne rakh diya....
culture k according log k k bolenge vo b tere te bata di...........ghana khul k aade likh ni sakte kyki sharam karni pade se public site per.

AUR AGAR AB B TU NI SAMAJH SAKTA TO BHAI AUR HUM B NA SAMJHA SAKTE.......PER TU NU KARIYE SAME GOTRA KI CHORRI TE SHADI KAR LIYE AUR JAB KAR LE TO HUMNE KHABAR KAR DIYE KI MAIN SAHI SALAMAT SU AUR AB MERA GAAM MODERN BAN LIYA USA JISA.

Bhai tu aisa kar jo link maine send kiya h use dhayan se padh le........fir tu mujhe batana ki same gotra hone se genes different kaha se layega???????

vikasJAT
July 10th, 2012, 11:58 AM
Mr.kapil dalal,
Yes their is significance in giving money to the girl of your gotras while visiting their place , In past time mainly in Mughal era our women are not going out for any livilyhood except their own fields and they don't have any money to use in any emergency time so our elders starts giving money to them while they are not at their parental home and going to her husbands home from parental home , and another important thing is how bhaichara is ingrained the logic behind is when you know someone who is looking and living around you , you feel hesitating in doing any sort of illegal work because what the knows will say this thought always bothers you and forcing you not
bhai shadi k time barati chorri wala te pucha kre ki humare gaam ki koi chorri aade byah rakhi ho ya mare gotra ki koi ho, to usne paise de k aaya kare kyuki va behan mani ja se.

ebb sochan wali baat se je same gotra me shadi koi karta ho to fairo pe apne hon wali bahu ne 10 ruppes de k bolega ki bebe ye le pisse aur side me dhar k faire le le???????????hahhahahhahaha

yaar jo gott chode se vo kimme soch samajh k chode se....ebb nu samajh na aati ki yu SWIACH kade gaam me b gaya hoga to isne k is baat ka bera koni?
ya iske parents ya baat batate koni?

AbhikRana
July 10th, 2012, 12:01 PM
Very succinctly explained. If still someone is not willing to understand, it's his choice.

The system of gotras came into existence much - much before the advent of modern sciences including genetics. The reason why science and genetics was discussed here was to further scientifically support the advantages of the gotra system. The reason why the discussion on science/genetics got prolonged is for all to see - intransigence of some to have a viewpoint cast in stone at least from a scientific perspective no matter how flawed that perspective is.

Kapil rightly said why we follow the gotra system is not because of science because as said earlier, when the gotra system came into existence, science (at least modern sciences) was nowhere in sight.

The legal perspective is that laws are made and amended to take into consideration the will of the people and also at times the political windfalls. So, it cannot be said that the provision of banning same gotra marriages cannot be incorporated at some point in future considering the will of the people. Despite it being more than 60 years of our constitution, we don't have a uniform civil code which means that in actual there are separate personal/family laws for separate/different communities.

Calling such a senior and learned member as Dr. Rajpal Singh as being biased was in very bad taste. What Dr. Singh did was to put his opinion/viewpoint on the topic and at the same time hoping that some sort of conclusion more or less acceptable to all emerges. And, I believe that is the aim of every debate/discussion.

Finally, no one suggests or supports that the couple marrying within the same gotra should be killed. But just as the people who are free to marry within the same gotra, there are other people who are and should be free to break all social and other family ties with the former.

Some amongst us call the same gotra marriages as being avante garde, 'breaking the shackles, social advancement, etc., but then going by this trend the day is not far when people will apply the same logic to marrying within the family. Shameful!!




Genes and genetics - related parents

A relationship between related people, such as siblings or cousins, is called consanguinity. Related parents are more likely than unrelated parents to have children with health problems or disorders. The closer the genetic relationship between the parents, the greater the risk of birth defects for their children. Genetic counselling is available for a couple who suspect they may be related.
Related parents are more likely than unrelated parents to have children with health problems or genetic disorders. This is because the two parents share one or more common ancestors and so carry some of the same genetic material. If both partners carry the same inherited altered (mutated) gene, their offspring are more likely to have a genetic disorder.
Ordinarily, two unrelated parents will have enough variation in their genes to ensure that their child has at least one normal copy of each gene. However, people with a common ancestor may each carry a copy of the same altered gene. This can make genetic disorders more likely to occur.

For more detail plz check this Link:
http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/Genes_and_genetics_related_parents

swaich
July 10th, 2012, 12:49 PM
Very succinctly explained. If still someone is not willing to understand, it's his choice.

The system of gotras came into existence much - much before the advent of modern sciences including genetics. The reason why science and genetics was discussed here was to further scientifically support the advantages of the gotra system. The reason why the discussion on science/genetics got prolonged is for all to see - intransigence of some to have a viewpoint cast in stone at least from a scientific perspective no matter how flawed that perspective is.

So now do you believe genes are transferred equally from both parents to a child? That was the bone of contention, right? I wonder why you havent commented on the reference material I posted. Can you still call me wrong in my basic understanding of genetics? But you have the gall to call me intransigent!


Kapil rightly said why we follow the gotra system is not because of science because as said earlier, when the gotra system came into existence, science (at least modern sciences) was nowhere in sight.

The legal perspective is that laws are made and amended to take into consideration the will of the people and also at times the political windfalls. So, it cannot be said that the provision of banning same gotra marriages cannot be incorporated at some point in future considering the will of the people. Despite it being more than 60 years of our constitution, we don't have a uniform civil code which means that in actual there are separate personal/family laws for separate/different communities.
Religious exceptions are made.


Calling such a senior and learned member as Dr. Rajpal Singh as being biased was in very bad taste. What Dr. Singh did was to put his opinion/viewpoint on the topic and at the same time hoping that some sort of conclusion more or less acceptable to all emerges. And, I believe that is the aim of every debate/discussion.
He did try to settle it but with a certain bias. I can paste his posts to support it, but leave it. And its ok. He's human and a member of this forum with is own views. No harm if he expresses it. I dont mind it.


Finally, no one suggests or supports that the couple marrying within the same gotra should be killed. But just as the people who are free to marry within the same gotra, there are other people who are and should be free to break all social and other family ties with the former.
People are here openly supporting that such couples can be killed. Maybe you purposely decided to be blind to those posts.

swaich
July 10th, 2012, 12:54 PM
I think there's no proven scientific basis for avoiding same gotra marriage especially in a highly inter mixed community like ours. While most here think there is.

At the same time many say lets ignore the scientific genetic cr@p and follow customs and traditions as they are.

And many say society's laws are sacrosanct as any law and therefore people that do not abide by it should be punished to whatever extent.

I disagree on most of these points. But I guess its best to leave it as it is. Time will probably be the best judge of which direction the society takes on such issues. There are other threads and issues to focus our energies on. Lets let this issue rest for now.



P.S. If you still have any thoughts that you want to convey to me..please PM me. I do not want to shy away from a valid discussion. But I wont like to respond to this thread from now on.

vikasJAT
July 10th, 2012, 12:57 PM
So now do you believe genes are transferred equally from both parents to a child? That was the bone of contention, right? I wonder why you havent commented on the reference material I posted. Can you still call me wrong in my basic understanding of genetics? But you have the gall to call me intransigent!


Religious exceptions are made.


He did try to settle it but with a certain bias. I can paste his posts to support it, but leave it. And its ok. He's human and a member of this forum with is own views. No harm if he expresses it. I dont mind it.


People are here openly supporting that such couples can be killed. Maybe you purposely decided to be blind to those posts.

Bhai tune jo link send kiye us se tune apni baat prove ki.
ab maine jo link send kiya h use detail me padh kar dekh le tujhe sabhi questions k answer mil jyenge.

Rahi baat ye ki parents me genes equally divide hote h to ye fact h......jo genes parents me hote h uski ek copy child me transfer hoti hai.
aur agar kisi me genetic disease hote hain to vo in genes k through he transfer hote hain....

Bhai tune kasam kha rakhi h ki tere baat sahi h......lekin yaha jab koi aur kuch bata raha h to use b sun le aur us per research kar k dekh le.....fir yaha sab ko bata ki kya research ki??

vikasJAT
July 10th, 2012, 12:59 PM
I think there's no proven scientific basis for avoiding same gotra marriage especially in a highly inter mixed community like ours. While most here think there is.

At the same time many say lets ignore the scientific genetic cr@p and follow customs and traditions as they are.

And many say society's laws are sacrosanct as any law and therefore people that do not abide by it should be punished to whatever extent.

I disagree on most of these points. But I guess its best to leave it as it is. Time will probably be the best judge of which direction the society takes on such issues. There are other threads and issues to focus our energies on. Lets let this issue rest for now.

bhai tere samne SCIENTIFIC and Custom dono he fact rakhe hain..........aur dono me kya sahi h ye tujhe b pata h ache se.

per ab tu man he gaya h to bot samajhdari ka kaam kara tane.....bhala ho tera.........:)

Sure
July 10th, 2012, 01:19 PM
bhai tere samne SCIENTIFIC and Custom dono he fact rakhe hain..........aur dono me kya sahi h ye tujhe b pata h ache se.

per ab tu man he gaya h to bot samajhdari ka kaam kara tane.....bhala ho tera.........:)

Yo manya nah hai Vikas, yo nue kah ka gaya hai ak dusre thread bhi sa jit eesnae infection ki suee chabhoni sa. ees bhai na time ka intjar hai arr puri society mae infection faillana hai, nue konya bera ak time aavega jab ghane badhe operation hoya kara sa, aur fir infection ko jad se khatam karna padta hai abhi toh sirf PARHEJ se kaam chala rahaein hain.

AbhikRana
July 10th, 2012, 01:22 PM
Your Royal Highness!! Yes I have the gall and the b_ _ls and the audacity to call all those who have closed their eyes and ears to the voice of reason as intransigent whether they like it or not.

If they still would like to go ahead with blowing their trumpet, they are more than free to do so and get their sisters and daughters married within the same gotra or even within the family by all means.


So now do you believe genes are transferred equally from both parents to a child? That was the bone of contention, right? I wonder why you havent commented on the reference material I posted. Can you still call me wrong in my basic understanding of genetics? But you have the gall to call me intransigent!

swaich
July 10th, 2012, 02:25 PM
Bhai tune jo link send kiye us se tune apni baat prove ki.
ab maine jo link send kiya h use detail me padh kar dekh le tujhe sabhi questions k answer mil jyenge.

Rahi baat ye ki parents me genes equally divide hote h to ye fact h......jo genes parents me hote h uski ek copy child me transfer hoti hai.
aur agar kisi me genetic disease hote hain to vo in genes k through he transfer hote hain....

Bhai tune kasam kha rakhi h ki tere baat sahi h......lekin yaha jab koi aur kuch bata raha h to use b sun le aur us per research kar k dekh le.....fir yaha sab ko bata ki kya research ki??

Bhai aapko reply kar raha hun..since yoi posted when I was writing my last post..

I agree ki same gotra se marriage karne mein genetic risk hota hai...BUT this come with a condition...ki woh close relation ho...apne jo link post kiya usme cousins or siblings ki baat ki gayi hai...unse marriage karne mein risk hai....yeh main manta hun aur maine pehle bhi likha hai...BUT agar aaj ki baat karien...to same gotra mein marriage karne is not equal to marrying your cousin kyunki sam gotra families have diverged from each other after living seprately for so many centuries...is liye risk kam ho jata hai...

vikasJAT
July 10th, 2012, 03:12 PM
Bhai aapko reply kar raha hun..since yoi posted when I was writing my last post..

I agree ki same gotra se marriage karne mein genetic risk hota hai...BUT this come with a condition...ki woh close relation ho...apne jo link post kiya usme cousins or siblings ki baat ki gayi hai...unse marriage karne mein risk hai....yeh main manta hun aur maine pehle bhi likha hai...BUT agar aaj ki baat karien...to same gotra mein marriage karne is not equal to marrying your cousin kyunki sam gotra families have diverged from each other after living seprately for so many centuries...is liye risk kam ho jata hai...

ebb tak to family diverged thi kyuki hum apni parampara k according chal rahe hain.....lekin aaj agar teri same gotra wali parampara suru kar denge to kuch din baad ya e problem fir aayegi jo maine uper discuss ki hai.......

vo haryana me kahavat h na ki "Raad te to badd achi".

same gotra means same origin......same origin hoga to normal si baat h genes b kuch had tak same he honge.....lekin jab ye same gotra wala system suru hoga to genetic problems same hongi kyuki same genes next generation me similar parents se transfer ho rahe hain jis se genetic disorders to hoga he sath me immune system b week hoga..............so protect your next generation brother and drop this idea.........

swaich
July 10th, 2012, 03:26 PM
ebb tak to family diverged thi kyuki hum apni parampara k according chal rahe hain.....lekin aaj agar teri same gotra wali parampara suru kar denge to kuch din baad ya e problem fir aayegi jo maine uper discuss ki hai.......

vo haryana me kahavat h na ki "Raad te to badd achi".

same gotra means same origin......same origin hoga to normal si baat h genes b kuch had tak same he honge.....lekin jab ye same gotra wala system suru hoga to genetic problems same hongi kyuki same genes next generation me similar parents se transfer ho rahe hain jis se genetic disorders to hoga he sath me immune system b week hoga..............so protect your next generation brother and drop this idea.........

Bhai .mere argument ka purpose ye nahi ki nayi parampara start karo..par yeh hai ki same gotra marriage karne walon ne ab tak koi genetic ya health risk increase nahi kiya hai..is liye unke upar itna strict action lena bhi jayaz nahi hai...Kya aap isse agree karte ho?

vikasJAT
July 10th, 2012, 03:32 PM
Bhai .mere argument ka purpose ye nahi ki nayi parampara start karo..par yeh hai ki same gotra marriage karne walon ne ab tak koi genetic ya health risk increase nahi kiya hai..is liye unke upar itna strict action lena bhi jayaz nahi hai...Kya aap isse agree karte ho?

Bhai main to AGREE KONI.................

ab increase na kara ho per aage to increase ho sake se. jeebe to mane va haryanavi kahavat likhi "Raad te to badd achi".
Bhai jo galat se vo to h e......same gotra marraige walo ko pehle mana kiya jata h,samjhaya b jata hai,per jab ni mante to marna padta hai (vo b unke gharwale marte hain apni samaj me izzat bachanae k liye).....vo kaha kre na ki PAGAL KUTTE NE TIME PER MAAR DE TO THEK HO SE,GAAM K LOGO NE KAM PADENGE.....ya baat aade suit kare se.

meri ek baat samajh na aati k thare te 3 GOTRA ni chode jate.....baki gotra ki chorri se unte byah kar lo yaar.

swaich
July 10th, 2012, 03:41 PM
Bhai main to AGREE KONI.................

ab increase na kara ho per aage to increase ho sake se. jeebe to mane va haryanavi kahavat likhi "Raad te to badd achi".
Bhai jo galat se vo to h e......same gotra marraige walo ko pehle mana kiya jata h,samjhaya b jata hai,per jab ni mante to marna padta hai (vo b unke gharwale marte hain apni samaj me izzat bachanae k liye).....vo kaha kre na ki PAGAL KUTTE NE TIME PER MAAR DE TO THEK HO SE,GAAM K LOGO NE KAM PADENGE.....ya baat aade suit kare se.

meri ek baat samajh na aati k thare te 3 GOTRA ni chode jate.....baki gotra ki chorri se unte byah kar lo yaar.

Bhai aapki baat sahi hai...3 gotra chorhne koi mushkil baat nahin...

Par hum ghoom fir ke usi baat pe aa jate hain...ki agar kisi ne byaah kar bhi liya..aur hamein yeh pata hai ki uska koi health risk nahi hai...to us par itne strict action to mat lo..ki uski family uski jaan le le...thread ka topic to yahi poochta hai na...? itni badi punishment kyun?

Par haan jaisa ki aapne kaha...future mein risk ho sakta hai agar aap close relation se shaadi karo to...is liye close relation teeno gotra mein avoid karo...

vikasJAT
July 10th, 2012, 03:53 PM
Bhai aapki baat sahi hai...3 gotra chorhne koi mushkil baat nahin...

Par hum ghoom fir ke usi baat pe aa jate hain...ki agar kisi ne byaah kar bhi liya..aur hamein yeh pata hai ki uska koi health risk nahi hai...to us par itne strict action to mat lo..ki uski family uski jaan le le...thread ka topic to yahi poochta hai na...? itni badi punishment kyun?

Par haan jaisa ki aapne kaha...future mein risk ho sakta hai agar aap close relation se shaadi karo to...is liye close relation teeno gotra mein avoid karo...


bhai baat nu se ki 1-2 ne kar li aur ve chod diye.........yu india se aade dusre ne dekh k ghana kara kre......un ne dekh dekh k aur b karenge......yu kaam na ho isliye pehle e lagaam kardii kar do.

ebb milgya jawab ki strict kyu hon sa?????????

Samarkadian
July 10th, 2012, 04:28 PM
शाबास!! खेंच क ले लो !! जुन्सा जीतेगा उसने एक बोरी बादाम सत्येश्वर की ओड़ त इनाम में !!

navdeepkhatkar
July 10th, 2012, 05:20 PM
शाबास!! खेंच क ले लो !! जुन्सा जीतेगा उसने एक बोरी बादाम सत्येश्वर की ओड़ त इनाम में !!

उस बोरी में २ एक मुठी मैं भी गेर दूंगा

JSRana
July 10th, 2012, 05:43 PM
भाई जसप्रीत वैसे तो आप पढ़े लिखे और ग्यानी हैं और बात आप की समझ में भी आ गयी है | फिर में कहना चाहूँगा कि ईस समाज को सुद्रढ़ और सवस्थ बनाए रखना हम सब की जिम्मेवारी है | ये तभी संभव हो सकता है जब हम समाज के बनाए हुए नियम और कायदों का पालन करें | दूसरा जिस तरह से कोई भी माँ बाप आपने बच्चों का भविष्य बुरा नहीं देखना चाहता उसी तरह से हमें ये विश्वास होना चाहिए कि हमारे पूर्वजों ने भी ये नियम और कायदे हमारे और समाज के हित के लिए ही बनाए हैं | फिर भी अगर समय के साथ साथ कुछ बदलाव की जरूरत है तो उस के लिए संस्थाएं भी बनायी गयी हैं जो समय समय पर इसका अवलोकन और विचार करती हैं और अगर उपयुक्त लगे तो बदलाव भी लाती हैं | जैसे स्वामी दयानंद व गुरु नानक ने समाज के नियमों में बहुत सारे बदलाव सुझाये और हमारे समाज ने उन्हें अपनाया भी |


रही बात सजा देने की तो जैसे पहले भी बताया जा चुका है कि ज्यादातर घटनाओं में माँ बाप या दुसरे करीबी रिश्तेदारों ने ही ये सजाये दी हैं ना कि किसी सामाजिक संस्था ने | बाकी हम सब ही ईस सख्त सजा के खिलाफ हैं लेकिन जिस तरह से बिमारी ठीक करने के लिए एक चिकित्सक को भी कई बार अंग को काटना पड़ता है ईसी तरह से हमें भी ईस बिमारी को रोकने के लिए कुछ तो सख्त कदम उठाने ही पड़ेंगे वरना ये छूत कि तरह फ़ैल जाएगी और हमारे सामाजिक ढाँचे को ही ले डूबेगी |


धन्यवाद सहित |

DrRajpalSingh
July 10th, 2012, 05:48 PM
I do not give myself so much credit or importance to believe that I am on a mission to change the course of society. That would be an extremely hilarious proposition.

I believe we are here to discuss our opinion on issues that affect our community as logically as possible. And logically almost always involves science. If people bring it down to personal level, for whatever reason it shows them in a very bad light. At that point they have already lost the discussion and it defeats the purpose of the forum.

As for you, I was saddened to see that you couldnt take a neutral approach in spite of your experience and educational background. But I guess, we are all human after all and will pick sides for whatever reason.

And as I said, I have already furnished enough reference material to settle the scientific side of things. I always maintained that the debate is more about customs and traditions as scientific basis is lacking.

Friend,

How you assess me has nothing to do with the topic of debate. We are discussing human behaviour versus science. Please remember, Science is a good servant but bad master. Please introspect has science not overtaken you and made insensitive to human sensibilities. Gather courage to comment on me after going through my last posted comments with open mind and of course without any sort of prejudice.

With due regards

navdeepkhatkar
July 10th, 2012, 06:07 PM
That is correct. Slowly and slowly differences between communities and cultures are going to melt away.

10 years now, if this forum is around (it should be as it presents a tremendous platform) we might be amazed to look back and realize that so many of us were justifying same-gotra marriage.
This is called confidence ..:):)

rekhasmriti
July 10th, 2012, 06:36 PM
i knew it---rather i was so damn sure

koi na koi toh misunderstood karega hi

" jab tane genetics ka A,D aur C b na aata to itna kyu dhol bajave se...

Mrs Rekha mujhe ni pata aapko kya aata h aur kya ni,lekin ek baat suno aap,jab tak aapko khud kuch na paat ho to kuch mat likha karo...pehle uski kuch knowledge le fir yaha likh"

i know a,b ,c of genetics---n i know very well blogs n articles se genetics nahi aata


jaise maths bina pen n paper ke nahi aata----wasie hi genetics-----xillion on combiunations---n it does has formula----i m sure chromosomes n all toh padha hi hoga

be it mr. swaich or any other JL------genetics is just too complicated

agar nahi yakin hota------chk with any professor- or reseracher

which dhol u r talking about --------joh bolns tha---point rakhna tha---woh pehli hi rakh chuki hoon--many posts back

meine toh kuch kaha hi nahi

just said the comment u have passed " b*********-------that is gross------n that is------no matter what the excuse is

sorry------aasan hota hai kya????????

i only say so----ke kissi ko bura lag jaye----toh plz do not take it by heartr---that was not personal


" offence likh do aur bich me kuch ni hota.."

i guess aap toh meri post mei ctrl+F karke sorry hi dhoondhte hoge

plz carefully see----usmei content kya hota --------better read content first then see that sorry part


" aur ni likh sakte to discussion me aana he band kar do.."

thnx for d advice------
i guess one who can not keep decency of discussion-----he need to walk out

just b'coz u r in discussion----that does not give u any right---to use such words( humari hi zaban kharab hoti hai)

template-hahahahaahahah

theek sir g-----aap ismei khush toh----issi mei hi sahi ---yeah i do use template----aur kuch?????????????????

Please Note : i know zyada bol gayee------but u have this nature of provoking n accusing------

still bhaisab-----i was not personal-----extremely sorry agar apko bura laga ho toh ( FROM TEMPLATE)







jab tane genetics ka A,D aur C b na aata to itna kyu dhol bajave se...

Mrs Rekha mujhe ni pata aapko kya aata h aur kya ni,lekin ek baat suno aap,jab tak aapko khud kuch na paat ho to kuch mat likha karo...pehle uski kuch knowledge le fir yaha likh.

last me SORRY ya no offence likhne se discussion me participate ni kiya jata......agar kuch likhe ho to uski responsibility likhne wale ki hoti h.......

P.S:
Rekha ji aapne ek template bana rakhi hai jisme satart me SIR G likh do aur last me last me SORRY ya no offence likh do aur bich me kuch ni hota....so is template se hat kar kuch likho mam..aur ni likh sakte to discussion me aana he band kar do......

rekhasmriti
July 10th, 2012, 06:44 PM
in agreement sir g



I think both the protagonists and antagonists of the same gotra marriages have used all the ashtars and shastras in their armoury; so time has arrived to take rest, if you please. Cease fire, re-equip with latest arguments supported by reference material and we can meet again !!!



Thanks

Samarkadian
July 10th, 2012, 06:50 PM
plz carefully see----usmei content kya hota --------better read content first then see that sorry part




Yes , I also don't understand why people don't read your genuine content.? Content ka zamana hi nahi raha. So Sad.

rekhasmriti
July 10th, 2012, 06:53 PM
this was awesome-Ved, vani, dand , bhed


Galati sudharne ke char pravdhan banaye hue hain.
Ved, vaani, Dand, Bhed. Ved yani gyan, pahle aadmi ko gyan do, gyan dene ke baad bhi baat samajh mein aa jaye toh thheek hai otherwise we must use Vani, oose kade sabdon ka prayog karke samajhana chahiye, agar fir bhi nahi manta hai toh wah Dand ka adhikari hai aur last mein aise aadmi se bhed (ostracized) karna hi uchit hi. Totally infected persons are not supposed to be the part of society.

DrRajpalSingh
July 10th, 2012, 07:59 PM
this was awesome-Ved, vani, dand , bhed

That is why crime rates were under manageable limits in the society!! Spare the rod and spoil the child is an old proverb.

DrRajpalSingh
July 10th, 2012, 08:08 PM
Yes , I also don't understand why people don't read your genuine content.? Content ka zamana hi nahi raha. So Sad.


Indeed, genuine concern for want of understanding among the common folk seconded beautifully !!! Perhaps, this may be due to the fact that people do not use microscopes to find out 'Content' in certain posts.

sanjeev_balyan
July 10th, 2012, 11:44 PM
That is correct. Slowly and slowly differences between communities and cultures are going to melt away.

10 years now, if this forum is around (it should be as it presents a tremendous platform) we might be amazed to look back and realize that so many of us were justifying same-gotra marriage.

and as per yr advance and progressive thoughts,
when members of this thread will be at heaven or hell or on death bed ,
there great grand sons and daughters will be marrying each others.

I don’t know , yr view now ,
but as per yr dream of marriages after 10 years,
Their next generation shall be discussing on the same topic in this thread
to justify the marriages between brothers and sisters with solid and advanced medical genes study.

rekhasmriti
July 11th, 2012, 06:21 AM
hahahahahahahahhhaha

So very expected----------------------gosh

i knew it-----aur koi kuch kahe na kahe

tumne comment zaroor marna hai

kabhi toh-------surprise me

a decent post---without any sarcasm

kahan se ki hai Sarcasm mei PhD

annoyinggggggggg-------is it the right word


curious---is it just me ---with whom u r so sarcastic-------

aur mei jane doon---tum ho hi aise ( waise bhi kar kya loongi)


n cherry on cake-----is----- u have just a great fan following---
people they like ur posts
fishhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh














Yes , I also don't understand why people don't read your genuine content.? Content ka zamana hi nahi raha. So Sad.

rekhasmriti
July 11th, 2012, 06:23 AM
" Spare the rod and spoil the child"

meaning?



That is why crime rates were under manageable limits in the society!! Spare the rod and spoil the child is an old proverb.

rekhasmriti
July 11th, 2012, 06:30 AM
missed one thing

worst on worse is -----
jab bhi kissi post ko dislike karna hota hai

toh " dislike " option nahi milta





Yes , I also don't understand why people don't read your genuine content.? Content ka zamana hi nahi raha. So Sad.

VirJ
July 11th, 2012, 08:32 AM
hahahahahahahahhhaha

So very expected----------------------gosh

i knew it-----aur koi kuch kahe na kahe

tumne comment zaroor marna hai

kabhi toh-------surprise me

a decent post---without any sarcasm

kahan se ki hai Sarcasm mei PhD

annoyinggggggggg-------is it the right word


curious---is it just me ---with whom u r so sarcastic-------

aur mei jane doon---tum ho hi aise ( waise bhi kar kya loongi)


n cherry on cake-----is----- u have just a great fan following---
people they like ur posts
fishhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

----------- knew it---rather i was so damn sure

koi na koi toh misunderstood karega hi

" jab tane genetics ka A,D aur C b na aata to itna kyu dhol bajave se...

Mrs Rekha mujhe ni pata aapko kya aata h aur kya ni,lekin ek baat suno aap,jab tak aapko khud kuch na paat ho to kuch mat likha karo...pehle uski kuch knowledge le fir yaha likh"

i know a,b ,c of genetics---n i know very well blogs n articles se genetics nahi aata


jaise maths bina pen n paper ke nahi aata----wasie hi genetics-----xillion on combiunations---n it does has formula----i m sure chromosomes n all toh padha hi hoga

be it mr. swaich or any other JL------genetics is just too complicated

agar nahi yakin hota------chk with any professor- or reseracher

which dhol u r talking about --------joh bolns tha---point rakhna tha---woh pehli hi rakh chuki hoon--many posts back

meine toh kuch kaha hi nahi

just said the comment u have passed " b*********-------that is gross------n that is------no matter what the excuse is

sorry------aasan hota hai kya????????

i only say so----ke kissi ko bura lag jaye----toh plz do not take it by heartr---that was not personal


" offence likh do aur bich me kuch ni hota.."

i guess aap toh meri post mei ctrl+F karke sorry hi dhoondhte hoge

plz carefully see----usmei content kya hota --------better read content first then see that sorry part


" aur ni likh sakte to discussion me aana he band kar do.."

thnx for d advice------
i guess one who can not keep decency of discussion-----he need to walk out

just b'coz u r in discussion----that does not give u any right---to use such words( humari hi zaban kharab hoti hai)

template-hahahahaahahah

theek sir g-----aap ismei khush toh----issi mei hi sahi ---yeah i do use template----aur kuch?????????????????

Please Note : i know zyada bol gayee------but u have this nature of provoking n accusing------

still bhaisab-----i was not personal-----extremely sorry agar apko bura laga ho toh ( FROM TEMPLATE)

-----------------------------------------------
u r absolutely right-

so many times---u won't find authentic info in google as well

libraray------i was last time in college

now again ----no time

but waise sir g ------

jo miene mention kiya bout colony---was i wrong??????????

aap ne toh i believe bahut sari books padhi hongi

please help me understand------kindly clear my curiousity ---of this colony wala thing



Without naming anyone, Can access of some people be limited to Time pass threads. All their posts belongs to that category.

DrRajpalSingh
July 11th, 2012, 09:08 AM
" Spare the rod and spoil the child"

meaning?

You are not so naive! Nonetheless, Spend a few rupees and purchase a good dictionary!!!

vikasJAT
July 11th, 2012, 09:28 AM
................................

vikasJAT
July 11th, 2012, 09:40 AM
"SAME GOTRA MARRIAGE" ka discussion over ho liya.......kyuki SWIACH bhai ne b Custom as well as Scientific reason pata lag gye hain ki hum ise support kyu ni karte. aur vo is se agree b hain.

So ab yaha koi new topic liya jaye.

swaich
July 11th, 2012, 10:02 AM
Rekha ji, if I can share some feedback about your posting style:

1. Avoid sms lingo. It puts people off and reveals lack of seriousness in writing. Agreed its faster and easier but makes for the least impact on the reader.
2. Write in paras. You write in singular sentences. This kills the flow of your thoughts. To maintain better flow write in paras with each para containing a specific thought rather than multiple sentences one after the other.

You are very active on the forum and do not shy away from experessing your thoughts. With a little polishing your posts will make for better reading. I hope you take my suggestions in good spirit.

Sure
July 11th, 2012, 10:19 AM
missed one thing

worst on worse is -----
jab bhi kissi post ko dislike karna hota hai

toh " dislike " option nahi milta

Dislike is first step towards “HATE”, I don’t support this approach. Thankful to moderators for this and hope moderators will not promote such things in future and will remain with positive approach. Regards

ssgoyat
July 11th, 2012, 10:57 AM
" Spare the rod and spoil the child"

meaning?


You are not so naive! Nonetheless, Spend a few rupees and purchase a good dictionary!!!

I wish to recommend Google here: It's absolutely 100% guaranteed free, and fishes out the meaning within centiseconds.

One could then save on some time, to write few more vague posts, than waiting for other forum members to respond n explain. :-)

But that would add manhours of waste of time for others in reading those vague posts. :-(

So, suggesting dictionary makes a good idea. :-)

ravinderjeet
July 11th, 2012, 11:15 AM
" Spare the rod and spoil the child"

meaning?

इब्ब इह खातर के.जी. की क्लास लाओ |

Sure
July 11th, 2012, 11:18 AM
Rekha ji, if I can share some feedback about your posting style:

1. Avoid sms lingo. It puts people off and reveals lack of seriousness in writing. Agreed its faster and easier but makes for the least impact on the reader.
2. Write in paras. You write in singular sentences. This kills the flow of your thoughts. To maintain better flow write in paras with each para containing a specific thought rather than multiple sentences one after the other.

You are very active on the forum and do not shy away from experessing your thoughts. With a little polishing your posts will make for better reading. I hope you take my suggestions in good spirit.

साउथइंडियामएककहावतह, केलाबनाकसुईचुभोना. .इसका मतलब ह की आदमी न इतना पिलपिला कर लो के सुई चुभोती हाना कुछ Oppose करे न पावे, अक दर्दतोहोता ये ना, पर बाद म बेरा लागे स इस कसुते दर्द का अक के करगा . यो भाई इब इस रेखा न बिगाडन की सोच रहा स .
I hope she will keep writing in her original form whatever way it is, JLers understand what post say and what is hidden behind post.

swaich
July 11th, 2012, 11:54 AM
साउथइंडियामएककहावतह, केलाबनाकसुईचुभोना. .इसका मतलब ह की आदमी न इतना पिलपिला कर लो के सुई चुभोती हाना कुछ Oppose करे न पावे, अक दर्दतोहोता ये ना, पर बाद म बेरा लागे स इस कसुते दर्द का अक के करगा . यो भाई इब इस रेखा न बिगाडन की सोच रहा स .
I hope she will keep writing in her original form whatever way it is, JLers understand what post say and what is hidden behind post.

I dont know whether to laugh or take offence at your post. It was just an honest feedback. I wanted to PM her but couldn't as she has probably turned off that feature. And she isnt a kid jo main usko 'bigad' dunga.

Since this isnt the first time you have mentioned this, kya aap batayenge what is hidden behind my post? Aapko kya lagta hain? I am hatching a plan with Rekha?

malikdeepak1
July 11th, 2012, 12:01 PM
थारा सुल्झेटा होया नहीं इब ताई??

vikasJAT
July 11th, 2012, 12:13 PM
थारा सुल्झेटा होया नहीं इब ताई??

hahhahhahahha ebbe na hove bhai.........

ebbe to ek member baki se jiste server b down hoja se..............lol

ravinderjeet
July 11th, 2012, 12:24 PM
hahhahhahahha ebbe na hove bhai.........

ebbe to ek member baki se jiste server b down hoja se..............lol

मेंबर ते के स ? "फान्चरी" स |

Malikpriya
July 11th, 2012, 12:30 PM
मेंबर ते के स ? "फान्चरी" स |

फान्चरी.................hunnnnnn sabte faltu award le ri hai wa jya maare uste saare jalo ho tam...............;)

DrRajpalSingh
July 11th, 2012, 05:03 PM
I dont know whether to laugh or take offence at your post. It was just an honest feedback. I wanted to PM her but couldn't as she has probably turned off that feature. And she isnt a kid jo main usko 'bigad' dunga.

Since this isnt the first time you have mentioned this, kya aap batayenge what is hidden behind my post? Aapko kya lagta hain? I am hatching a plan with Rekha?

Personal comments/issues must be avoided.

swaich
July 11th, 2012, 05:45 PM
Personal comments/issues must be avoided.

Was that for me or the person I quoted?

rekhasmriti
July 11th, 2012, 05:46 PM
aur bhi acha solution hai


google----

i was just expecting a little support-----
and save my time to google

n i guess i got it




You are not so naive! Nonetheless, Spend a few rupees and purchase a good dictionary!!!

rekhasmriti
July 11th, 2012, 05:52 PM
u do not need to disclose the name

that is pretty much clear

strange------among all members u just found one------

no offence------

to be very honest

sir g- i did feel bad--------

so many of all , they post things without logic---no offence their understanding

so many cross their limits of decency

still apko mere hi post yad rahe

awesome effort sir ------keep it up



Without naming anyone, Can access of some people be limited to Time pass threads. All their posts belongs to that category.

rekhasmriti
July 11th, 2012, 05:55 PM
thnx a lot

i would try to work on those things, but thoda difficult hai , as i m so used of this way n i m so impatient as well. However I would for sure try.
Thnx again.



Rekha ji, if I can share some feedback about your posting style:

1. Avoid sms lingo. It puts people off and reveals lack of seriousness in writing. Agreed its faster and easier but makes for the least impact on the reader.
2. Write in paras. You write in singular sentences. This kills the flow of your thoughts. To maintain better flow write in paras with each para containing a specific thought rather than multiple sentences one after the other.

You are very active on the forum and do not shy away from experessing your thoughts. With a little polishing your posts will make for better reading. I hope you take my suggestions in good spirit.

rekhasmriti
July 11th, 2012, 05:58 PM
thnx for realising me something.

waise bhi list lambi ho rahi thi , n i was planning to cut it short. I agreement dislike is the first step to Hate.




Dislike is first step towards “HATE”, I don’t support this approach. Thankful to moderators for this and hope moderators will not promote such things in future and will remain with positive approach. Regards

rekhasmriti
July 11th, 2012, 06:00 PM
Case stands closed .
As googled , i got what i was looking for




I wish to recommend Google here: It's absolutely 100% guaranteed free, and fishes out the meaning within centiseconds.

One could then save on some time, to write few more vague posts, than waiting for other forum members to respond n explain. :-)

But that would add manhours of waste of time for others in reading those vague posts. :-(

So, suggesting dictionary makes a good idea. :-)

rekhasmriti
July 11th, 2012, 06:01 PM
na g na-bina class lagaye kam chal gaya



इब्ब इह खातर के.जी. की क्लास लाओ |

rekhasmriti
July 11th, 2012, 06:04 PM
guys------give me brk
spare me

n sir g- it was not just me alone




hahhahhahahha ebbe na hove bhai.........

ebbe to ek member baki se jiste server b down hoja se..............lol

tarzon
July 11th, 2012, 06:05 PM
arrey sister, why are you getting so serious???:)


guys------give me brk
spare me

n sir g- it was not just me alone

swaich
July 11th, 2012, 06:05 PM
thnx a lot

i would try to work on those things, but thoda difficult hai , as i m so used of this way n i m so impatient as well. However I would for sure try.
Thnx again.

I agree it doesnt come easy. We are used to writing in short hand all the time. FB, sms etc. its all short hand. As I my work involves writing regularly I have completely detached myself from the sms lingo as it began to affect my writing in office. I avoid using abbreviations even in sms or FB. Ek baar aadat parh jati hai to mushkil se jati hai.

rekhasmriti
July 11th, 2012, 06:09 PM
" "फान्चरी"


sir g----this word i din't get it

google kiya nahi mila

ab seriosly dictionary padhni padegi ( as Dr Rajpal suggested)



मेंबर ते के स ? "फान्चरी" स |

rekhasmriti
July 11th, 2012, 06:16 PM
bhaisab-kabhi kabhi impatient ho jati hoon

concern is- mei dikhayee deti hoon -what about the other one----that is unfair

serious----han thodi ho gayee thi-----but itni bhi nahi

yahan par itne comments ki toh aadat ho gayee-----else kab ka chod diya hota

n one good thing-------
( at work waise bhi mei sabke sar par chadhi rehti hoon-----yahan aakar back to ground level ho jati hoon---so balance rehta hai)

every coin has 2 sides

one more thing------ek bolega toh sare bolte hai------
roz ek kahega toh phir bhi theek hai---slow poison








arrey sister, why are you getting so serious???:)

rekhasmriti
July 11th, 2012, 06:17 PM
kya priya g-ab aap bhi



फान्चरी.................hunnnnnn sabte faltu award le ri hai wa jya maare uste saare jalo ho tam...............;)

Sure
July 11th, 2012, 06:19 PM
" "फान्चरी"


sir g----this word i din't get it

google kiya nahi mila

ab seriosly dictionary padhni padegi ( as Dr Rajpal suggested)

You may need haryanvi to hindi or English dictionary for this word, The word fanchari is used for universal piece of wood which can be fixed between the gap of two things to make them stable or rigid. Don’t take it otherwise, just cheers.

tarzon
July 11th, 2012, 06:21 PM
hahahahahaha...bang on...keep it up! :D

but phir bhi virtual life mai serious mat hua karo...Just chill out here and enjoy the time...warna sir dard ho jayga :P


bhaisab-kabhi kabhi impatient ho jati hoon

concern is- mei dikhayee deti hoon -what about the other one----that is unfair

serious----han thodi ho gayee thi-----but itni bhi nahi

yahan par itne comments ki toh aadat ho gayee-----else kab ka chod diya hota

n one good thing-------
( at work waise bhi mei sabke sar par chadhi rehti hoon-----yahan aakar back to ground level ho jati hoon---so balance rehta hai)

every coin has 2 sides

one more thing------ek bolega toh sare bolte hai------
roz ek kahega toh phir bhi theek hai---slow poison

rekhasmriti
July 11th, 2012, 06:25 PM
thnx

i was about to call my mom for same-----n tab poori ram kahani batani padti






You may need haryanvi to hindi or English dictionary for this word, The word fanchari is used for universal piece of wood which can be fixed between the gap of two things to make them stable or rigid. Don’t take it otherwise, just cheers.

rekhasmriti
July 11th, 2012, 06:26 PM
thanks

" virtual life mai serious mat hua karo"

ab yeh hamesha yad rakhna hai



hahahahahaha...bang on...keep it up! :D

but phir bhi virtual life mai serious mat hua karo...Just chill out here and enjoy the time...warna sir dard ho jayga :P

DrRajpalSingh
July 11th, 2012, 06:33 PM
Swaich ji,

Yeh sahi baat hai lekin aap bhi manate hein kee jaati jaroor hai chahe muskil se. Koshish karne mein koi harz nahin muskil assan ho jayegi !

thanks

vikasJAT
July 11th, 2012, 06:34 PM
Yeh sahi baat hai lekin aap bhi manate hein kee jaati jaroor hai chahe muskil se. Koshish karne mein koi harz nahin muskil assan ho jayegi !

hahhahahhaha ebbe server ki essi-tessi hori se fer server katti dharti me ja k lagega Rajpal ji.

aage NO COMMENTS..............lol

vikasJAT
July 11th, 2012, 06:36 PM
BTW ab is thread me kon se samajhik topic per discussion chal raha hai?

koi bata do thoda gyan hum b le lenge....................

ashe
July 11th, 2012, 06:38 PM
everybody is missing out something title of the topic..


"Poll: Those guilty of "Within Gotra" marriage should be ostracized... Yes or No ?


Be advised that this is a public poll: other users can see the choice(s) you selected.




previous 2 pages has nothing.. related to the topic.. :) :)

rekhasmriti
July 11th, 2012, 06:38 PM
" aage NO COMMENTS"

i guess u have quite sharp memory-----to remember what u have said




hahhahahhaha fer server dharti me ja k lagega Rajpal ji.

aage NO COMMENTS..............lol

vikasJAT
July 11th, 2012, 06:40 PM
everybody is missing out something title of the topic..


"Poll: Those guilty of "Within Gotra" marriage should be ostracized... Yes or No ?


Be advised that this is a public poll: other users can see the choice(s) you selected.



Asha ye topic already solve ho chuka hai....
maine socha tha ab ye thread yehi close ho jyegi bcoz discussion regarding this topic is over.

Tabhi to puch raha hu ki ab kis samajhik TOPIC per ye thread RAJDHANI EXPRESS bani hui hai???????

swaich
July 11th, 2012, 06:44 PM
Swaich ji,

Yeh sahi baat hai lekin aap bhi manate hein kee jaati jaroor hai chahe muskil se. Koshish karne mein koi harz nahin muskil assan ho jayegi !

thanks

Sir aap shayad meri post ko quote karna bhool gaye. :)

vikasJAT
July 11th, 2012, 06:45 PM
" aage NO COMMENTS"

i guess u have quite sharp memory-----to remember what u have said

Han sab yaad h Rekha Ji......
per main kaam k TOPIC per discuss karne aata hu faltu bakwas karne nahi.
aur agar tere sari posts ka reply karu to sara din nikal jyega kyuki aap to yaha wholesale me post karte ho........humne office me kaam kar k apne biwi-bache palne se.....aapke jaise thali baith k roti na todte.

Rahi baat sharp memory ki to aapse kam e lage se kyuki hum to dangar charaniya han...5 class fail sa.......lol

P.S: ab tu thokh me likhti reh aade.......TEMPLATE pe Template...................ENJOY

vikasJAT
July 11th, 2012, 06:54 PM
" aage NO COMMENTS"

i guess u have quite sharp memory-----to remember what u have said

Rekha ji na to maine apne comment me aapka naam likha aur na aapka naam QUOTE me dala.....fir b aap socho ho ki ye comment aapke liye hai.....wow gr8

woh kahawat h na ki CHORE KI DHADI ME TINKA......vo ab is time aap per fitt hoti hai.

BTW.. is thread me jo likhi h kaam ki cheez us pe dhyan de............aade ebb faltu bakwas kar k panne bharan te koi fayda na hai.

FYI..mujhe aapki kisi ki post karne ka koi shonk ni h per jab aap personal comment karte ho to jawab dena padta hai.

vikasJAT
July 11th, 2012, 06:57 PM
jis topic per ye thread start hui thi vo topic solve ho chuka hai.
Dekha jye to ye thread start karne ka maksad pura ho chuka hai.

Mods ko ise close kar dena chahiye........

Na close hoyi to aade gosse-thapdi pathi jange aur thode din me jl per nare betode dhare pavenge.

rekhasmriti
July 11th, 2012, 07:00 PM
awesome-----no comments phir bhi comment kar diya


" dangar charaniya han...5 class fail"------thoda indecent hai ( i know u said it for urself----phir bhi u shouln't have)

: humne office me kaam kar k apne biwi-bache palne se.....aapke jaise thali baith k roti na todte."

bahut acha ans hai iska mere pas

but it seems----u r already loosing it all ( i meant patience)----so why to bother u some more

chill mar-----not going to take it further yar

( i may not know domestic pressure-----but han work pressure i m very well aware of)






Han sab yaad h Rekha Ji......
per main kaam k TOPIC per discuss karne aata hu faltu bakwas karne nahi.
aur agar tere sari posts ka reply karu to sara din nikal jyega kyuki aap to yaha wholesale me post karte ho........humne office me kaam kar k apne biwi-bache palne se.....aapke jaise thali baith k roti na todte.

Rahi baat sharp memory ki to aapse kam e lage se kyuki hum to dangar charaniya han...5 class fail sa.......lol

P.S: ab tu thokh me likhti reh aade.......TEMPLATE pe Template...................ENJOY

vikasJAT
July 11th, 2012, 07:01 PM
awesome-----no comments phir bhi comment kar diya


" dangar charaniya han...5 class fail"------thoda indecent hai ( i know u said it for urself----phir bhi u shouln't have)

: humne office me kaam kar k apne biwi-bache palne se.....aapke jaise thali baith k roti na todte."

bahut acha ans hai iska mere pas

but it seems----u r already loosing it all ( i meant patience)----so why to bother u some more

chill mar-----not going to take it further yar

( i may not know domestic pressure-----but han work pressure i m very well aware of)

TU b chill marr le taki is JL ne b sanns aaja................

kimme kaam ki baad per discuss kare to tane b kuch info. milegi..........na ki personal comments,aur ya aadat tere se chutte ni.

So maine ab kuch likhna e ni......vo kaha kare na pagal gail pagal na bana kre.....so i quit from your posts only.not from this thread bcoz yaha tere TEMPLATES k siva aur b bot kuch h samajhne k liye.

meri lines buri lagi ho to 5% extra bura maan liye..........

DrRajpalSingh
July 11th, 2012, 07:02 PM
everybody is missing out something title of the topic..

"Poll: Those guilty of "Within Gotra" marriage should be ostracized... Yes or No ?Al
Be advised that this is a public poll: other users can see the choice(s) you selected.

previous 2 pages has nothing.. related to the topic.. :) :)



Agreed.
The topic stands discussed threadbare a long time ago. The three pillars --science, tradition and justice dominated the debate. As usual, at times we were led astray and started discussing persons instead of their posts [views]. This led to the mess towards which you have pointed to in your post.

Now it is hoped that since the JatLand.com has brought all of us to this platform to discuss various issues being faced by the society particularly the Jat community and since all the participants are Jats only, we must take a pledge not to cross limits of decency and respect right of one another to disagree notwithstanding the fact that the argument must be based on strong evidence to support one's surmise. Personal likes and dislikes, doubts or prejudices must not colour our posts please.

Then and only then the participants could create a common understanding of the issues discussed among them. Thence after, they can say that human beings may be emancipated and all boundaries and fetters be removed and all people love each other and become knowledgeable.

The topic for me stands closed.

rekhasmriti
July 11th, 2012, 07:05 PM
chilllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

mujhe lagta tha - mei hi overreact karti hoon----but yar aap toh

koi personal comment nahi kiya aap mei meine-


agar apko aisa laga toh-sorry ( template wala nahi hai)


sir g---sab meri galti hai-----
man li-----ab just relax--------have something cold

( mujhe nahi pata tha-----mei itni bhadak kar doongi)


Rekha ji na to maine apne comment me aapka naam likha aur na aapka naam QUOTE me dala.....fir b aap socho ho ki ye comment aapke liye hai.....wow gr8

woh kahawat h na ki CHORE KI DHADI ME TINKA......vo ab is time aap per fitt hoti hai.

BTW.. is thread me jo likhi h kaam ki cheez us pe dhyan de............aade ebb faltu bakwas kar k panne bharan te koi fayda na hai.

FYI..mujhe aapki kisi ki post karne ka koi shonk ni h per jab aap personal comment karte ho to jawab dena padta hai.

vikasJAT
July 11th, 2012, 07:12 PM
Agreed.
The topic stands discussed threadbare a long time ago. The three pillars --science, tradition and justice dominated the debate. As usual, at times we were led astray and started discussing persons instead of their posts [views]. This led to the mess towards which you have pointed to in your post.

Now it is hoped that since the JatLand.com has brought all of us to this platform to discuss various issues being faced by the society particularly the Jat community and since all the participants are Jats only, we must take a pledge not to cross limits of decency and respect right of one another to disagree notwithstanding the fact that the argument must be based on strong evidence to support one's surmise. Personal likes and dislikes, doubts or prejudices must not colour our posts please.

Then and only then the participants could create a common understanding of the issues discussed among them. Thence after, they can say that human beings may be emancipated and all boundaries and fetters be removed and all people love each other and become knowledgeable.

The topic for me stands closed.

Rajpal ji yehi to maine kaha h ki is topic already solve ho chuka hai....in terms of science, tradition and justice everything is clear......
so this thread should be closed.

vikasJAT
July 11th, 2012, 07:14 PM
chilllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

mujhe lagta tha - mei hi overreact karti hoon----but yar aap toh

koi personal comment nahi kiya aap mei meine-


agar apko aisa laga toh-sorry ( template wala nahi hai)


sir g---sab meri galti hai-----
man li-----ab just relax--------have something cold

( mujhe nahi pata tha-----mei itni bhadak kar doongi)

( mujhe nahi pata tha-----mei itni bhadak kar doongi)

hahhahahhahaha

P.S: As Rajpal sir said topic is solved......so avoid personal comments.

ravinderjeet
July 11th, 2012, 07:23 PM
( mujhe nahi pata tha-----mei itni bhadak kar doongi)

hahhahahhahaha

P.S: As Rajpal sir said topic is solved......so avoid personal comments.


थारे दोनुआ के नींद के सुए लुवाणे पड़ेंगे |

sanjeev_balyan
July 11th, 2012, 11:11 PM
थारे दोनुआ के नींद के सुए लुवाणे पड़ेंगे |
सुई ते काम ना चाल्ले के

cutejaatsandeep
July 14th, 2012, 11:00 PM
Bhai..main sirf itna keh raha hun ki agar hum jis cheez pe arhe hue hain...uska koi rational ta scintific logic hai hi nahin...to kya uske liye logo ka boycott karna ya itni strict punishment dena ki wo mare jayen uchit hai?

Main yeh nahi kehta ki apni cousin se shaadi kar lo. Kabhi nahi. Par yeh jaan ne ke baad ki same-gotra marriage se koi medical risk nahi hai, hamare samaj ka reaction to change hona chaiye na..? All I am trying to achieve through this discussion is make people understand that violence or social boycott is not an answer to this perceived crime.
beraa ni bhai taane kaun c science paadi se but jahaaa aur baade baade scientist ki baat se weee bhi keh see kee eek gotra mai byaah ni hona chahiye....teri dikkat yaa se kee ke tuu samajhnaa konii chavee see.....jatt sikh n hindu jaat customs mai bahut fark hai...jatt sikha kimme zeyada hi open se...ibb mai taane eek example deta hu...mera eek dost hai woo jatt sikh hai...uske father usse n uski wife ko eek din kahi jana tha..to woo teeno eek hi bike pur baith kar chale gaye...ladka aagee bike drive kar raha tha uski wife beech mai baithe thi n peeche ladki kaa susraa baitha tha....hamare hindu jaato mai aisa kabhi nahi ho sakta...yee difference hindu n jatt sikh mai

sanjeev_balyan
July 19th, 2012, 08:05 AM
http://in.jagran.yahoo.com/news/local/uttarpradesh/4_1_9484652.html

DrRajpalSingh
July 19th, 2012, 08:58 AM
http://in.jagran.yahoo.com/news/local/uttarpradesh/4_1_9484652.html

For the full view of the report, I take the opportunity to reproduce the text of the report with due acknowledgement to the news paper and the reporter, as given below:

सिसौली (मुजफ्फरनगर)। बालियान खाप के मुखिया नरेश टिकैत ने भ्रूण हत्या व समाज में फैल रही कुरीतियों पर बोलते हुए कहा कि प्रकृति के साथ छेड़छाड़ करना पाप है। हमें समाज में आ रहे बदलाव को समझना होगा। शराब पाप की जड़ है। बड़े बुजुर्गो की बात सुननी छोड़ दी है। खेत में काम करना छोड़ दिया। खाप चौधरी केवल समझा सकते हैं, रास्ता बता सकते हैं।जसोई में आयोजित सर्वखाफ पंचायत में टिकैत ने कहा कि सावन के माह में सूखा पड़ रहा है। इससे बड़ा प्रकृति का क्या गुस्सा हो सकता है। उन्होंने पानी की बर्बादी रोकने की अपील की।बर्बादी के कगार पर खड़ा है युवाउन्होंने कोर्ट का सम्मान करने की बात करते हुए कहा कि आज का युवा पढ़ाई व रोजगार पर ध्यान न देकर लड़की भगाने में ज्यादा ध्यान दे रहा है। युवा पीढ़ी बर्बादी के कगार पर खड़ी है। कोर्ट उन्हें सुरक्षा देने के निर्देश तो दे देता है, लेकिन यह नहीं देखता कि ये कहां से कमाएंगे, क्या खाएंगे? ऐसे बच्चों का भविष्य क्या होगा? सुप्रीम कोर्ट को भी खाप पंचायत की मन की बात सुननी चाहिए। खाप पंचायत आतंकवादी संगठन नहीं है। यह बिना पैसे खर्च किए समाज में फैली कुरीतियों की ओर ध्यान आकर्षित करने की एक प्राचीन परंपरा है। उन्होंने जींस पहनने पर टिप्पणी करते हुए कहा कि जींस भारतीय परंपरा व ग्रामीण पृष्ठभूमि के खिलाफ है। लड़कियों को इससे बचना चाहिए। अध्यक्षता कर्ण सिंह तथा संचालन ठाकुर पूरण सिंह ने किया।भ्रूण हत्या रोकने को महिलाओं का सहयोग जरूरीपंचायत में मेरठ की अनीता राणा ने कहा कि भ्रूण हत्या पर रोक महिलाओं के सहयोग के बिना संभव नहीं है। उन्होंने महिलाओं से अपील की कि उन्हें भ्रूण हत्या जैसा पाप नहीं करना चाहिए। पंचायत को नरेश टिकैत, बत्तीसा खाप के मुखिया सूरजमल अहलावत, गजेन्द्र, लाटियान खाप के मुखिया वीरेन्द्र, लाक थाम्बा के रणवीर सिंह, सर्वखाप मंत्री सुभाष बालियान, अनीता राणा, करण सिंह, ठा. सत्यपाल, ब्रजबंधु सैनी, अशोक बालियान, ठा. नरेन्द्र पुंडीर, धीरज लाटियान, विजयपाल धीमान, राजेन्द्र, अजय चौधरी ने संबोधित किया। पंचायत में सिसौली, चरौली, अटाली, बुडीना, नगला, पीपलहेड़ा, जसोई, नसीरपुर, अलीपुर समेत करीब दो दर्जन से अधिक सर्वजातीय लोगों ने भाग लिया।पंचायत की सहमति के छह बिंदु-कन्या भ्रूण हत्या पर पूर्ण रूप से प्रतिबंध लगे-भ्रूण हत्या करवाने वाले का बहिष्कार किया जाए-दोषी चिकित्सक पर धारा 302 का मुकदमा दर्ज हो-भ्रूण हत्या करने वाले चिकित्सक का पता देने वाले को पुरस्कार मिले-सुप्रीम कोर्ट सगोत्र विवाह पर रोक लगाए।-दहेज प्रथा पर रोक लगाई जाए।