PDA

View Full Version : Non jat girls married to jat guys... do you consider them Jatnis??



vijay123
July 5th, 2010, 11:18 PM
I have read on this forum few times that non Jatnis married to Jat guys become Jatnis but not vice verse.

I agree with vice verse thing but at the same time I myself also do not agree that non Jatnis (Bahmni, baniya, biharan, rajput, chamari, jogan etc) can become Jatnis by marrying jats. It is in DNA and can not be acquired by taking seven feras with a jat guy, how would a non jatni who has not lived among jats explain and teach the jat traditions to her kids when she herself wont know. How will she know the dialect? On the contrary she will avoid the dialects, traditions etc and try to impose hers on the kids. Please post your views and participate in the poll.

sunillathwal
July 5th, 2010, 11:56 PM
I have read on this forum few times that non Jatnis married to Jat guys become Jatnis but not vice verse.
If by vice verse you mean that a Jatni marrying a non-jat is no more a Jatni, then i don't think that 20 odd years of Jatism (whatever that means) will disappear suddenly. So, in a sense, she will always be a Jatni.
and if we go by conventional definitions: yes chamaar k byahi, chamaari kahaliye!! Male-dominated society etc.



I agree with vice verse thing but at the same time I myself also do not agree that non Jatnis (Bahmni, baniya, biharan, rajput, chamari, jogan etc) can become Jatnis by marrying jats. It is in DNA and can not be acquired by taking seven feras with a jat guy, how would a non jatni who has not lived among jats explain and teach the jat traditions to her kids when she herself wont know. How will she know the dialect? On the contrary she will avoid the dialects, traditions etc and try to impose hers on the kids. Please post your views and participate in the poll.

Well, that way Jats have different dialects, customs and traditions. A jat from Sirsa marrying a Jatni from MP or central UP. What will you make out of that??
Similarly, A Jat and Panjaban from, say Panipat, have more or less same dialect and customs? how pertinent is your definition of Jatism in this case?

Anyway, i believe that the saying, " Jat k byahi, jatni kavahaii" , was more of a foretoken of accommodating inter-cast marriages.

vijay123
July 6th, 2010, 12:15 AM
If by vice verse you mean that a Jatni marrying a non-jat is no more a Jatni, then i don't think that 20 odd years of Jatism (whatever that means) will disappear suddenly. So, in a sense, she will always be a Jatni.
and if we go by conventional definitions: yes chamaar k byahi, chamaari kahaliye!! Male-dominated society etc.

Actually I meant to say that non Jat guys marrying to a Jatni can not be Jat. Agree with you here that a Jat or Jatni will remain jat irrespective of whom they marry.



Well, that way Jats have different dialects, customs and traditions. A jat from Sirsa marrying a Jatni from MP or central UP. What will you make out of that??
Similarly, A Jat and Panjaban from, say Panipat, have more or less same dialect and customs? how pertinent is your definition of Jatism in this case?


No, its not that straight forward, one has to see in perspective. Even a Punjaban having same dialect wont have all the traits. It is difficult to summarize or put in writing each and everything of that. For eg: Jat attitude. A jat dont think anyone (including bahman) above him in terms of caste hierarchy and that will show in his/her interaction with other castes too. You will see jats not afraid of consuming large quantity of milk and desi ghee or gud. Put that in front of a non jat and they will say ki pet mei dard ho jaaga jey kha liya to.

Another interesting this is that even if a Jatni is from MP not aware of dialect etc, she will be accomodated by the family memebers with full support. Bring in a non Jatni and she will remain same forever. I still remember one or two instances where someone married a baniya/bahamani and village folks still calling her as bahamni or banni. No one say jatni. They will say ki falane ka chora bahamni le aaya...

Somveerd
July 6th, 2010, 11:38 AM
Does it make any big difference.For all this one has to do analysis before shadi.

anilsangwan
July 6th, 2010, 01:51 PM
Main thing in any marriage is how compatible bride and groom are with each other.... Life may become hell even of both are Jats but not compatible. At the same time, both may enjoy their life to the fullest despite being from other castes.... So let us focus on more important aspect first...

Secondly, yes... intercaste marriage is long debatable topic... but then under three situations one goes for this kind of alliance:

1. Boy/girl belonging to different castes are in love. Love is blind and does not see castes... :)
2. Boy or Girl are over-age (or some other reason) and hence not finding suitable match easily and thus going for any catse alliance. Example - jats marrying Biharans.
3. Metropolitan cases... castes do not matter to them.


In case 1 and 2 above - I dont thing anyone is interested in looking at the caste... in 3rd case, who bothers..

Fir mera conclusion to yeh hai ki yeh topic matter of discussion nahi hai normal cases mein.......... :)

arvindsindhu
July 7th, 2010, 10:38 PM
Bhaiyon Royal Blood flows in Royal Veins only.... Ab chaye kuch bhi keh lo....

ritu
July 8th, 2010, 12:42 AM
what is the definition of a jatni for you?I do not know about dna theory but for me jatni is girl who is well versed in jat traditions ,language and attitude.if a girl does not match up with it be a jat or non jat can never be a true jatni.
I have read on this forum few times that non Jatnis married to Jat guys become Jatnis but not vice verse.

I agree with vice verse thing but at the same time I myself also do not agree that non Jatnis (Bahmni, baniya, biharan, rajput, chamari, jogan etc) can become Jatnis by marrying jats. It is in DNA and can not be acquired by taking seven feras with a jat guy, how would a non jatni who has not lived among jats explain and teach the jat traditions to her kids when she herself wont know. How will she know the dialect? On the contrary she will avoid the dialects, traditions etc and try to impose hers on the kids. Please post your views and participate in the poll.

prashantacmet
July 8th, 2010, 03:31 PM
Nice speech ritu ji

ritu
July 8th, 2010, 08:04 PM
Become more and more innocent, less knowledgeable and more childlike. Take life as fun - because that's precisely what it is!

i wish you had paid attention to your signature .life bring changes in ppl thinking and behavior.but sadly i logged in after few months to get in touch with fellow jl members...and realized some will never change.

upendersingh
July 8th, 2010, 11:25 PM
I have read on this forum few times that non Jatnis married to Jat guys become Jatnis but not vice verse.

I agree with vice verse thing but at the same time I myself also do not agree that non Jatnis (Bahmni, baniya, biharan, rajput, chamari, jogan etc) can become Jatnis by marrying jats. It is in DNA and can not be acquired by taking seven feras with a jat guy, how would a non jatni who has not lived among jats explain and teach the jat traditions to her kids when she herself wont know. How will she know the dialect? On the contrary she will avoid the dialects, traditions etc and try to impose hers on the kids. Please post your views and participate in the poll.


Such girls are under process for being Jatnis. As some undertraining policeman or doctor can not be considered as a policeman or doctor in same way such girls can not be considered as Jatnis, but such couples' 3rd or 4th generation kids will be considered as Jats (provided it will be the burried truth that some woman 3rd or 4th generation ago was a non-jat in the dynasty). If such girls want to be considered as Jatnis then they should move to such place to live where no one knows about them. They should adopt all Jat characterstics including dialect and tell others that they are Jats (As such girls' husband is a Jat so no one will suspect them).
I don't think that who are pure Jats here (kids of both mother and father Jats), there was no intercaste marriage in their dynasty ever (I should say there may be such possibility in some Jats here)...can anybody tell who was the grandmother of his grandfather...? I think mostly will answer 'no'....but such guys are pure Jats because no one knows it that some woman was a non-Jat in their dynasty.

vijay
July 9th, 2010, 12:48 AM
i wish you had paid attention to your signature .life bring changes in ppl thinking and behavior.but sadly i logged in after few months to get in touch with fellow jl members...and realized some will never change.

Change is constant and brings equilibrium in life.
Its another matter that few people brings changes for the better while some other for the worst.

deswal100184
July 9th, 2010, 10:29 PM
well of course not. and it does not matter. this bound to happen sooner later everywhere as the independence and free will become more prevalent.

devikajakhar
September 1st, 2010, 01:07 AM
Does that mean we are doing the same racial profiling that the NAZIS DID IN WW2? They went back to grandparents era and if they found jewish blood, they were condemned as jews and killed.
An American friend theorised that V Jats came from an ancient GERMAN PROVINCE CALLED "JUTLAND". No, wonder many of us Jats continue to have this Oh, so superior NAZI attitude, which the yanks here will have us clobbered for. If V continue this "V Jats R superior" attitude and DNA, racial profiling etc...the U.S, may bring this to the notice of the international society - that V JATS R NAZIS IN DISGUISE:D (Jus' Kidding)

Due to skewed sex ratio, there are lots of Jat guys out of sheer desperation, marrying even Kerala Girls, for e.g. Karnam Malleshwari married a Haryanvi Jat..:confused:

So V stick to the simplest truth in life gleaned from the book "Tibetan Book of Living and Dying". All of us die...lets live a life of simplicity and happiness...with none superior or inferior.


Such girls are under process for being Jatnis. As some undertraining policeman or doctor can not be considered as a policeman or doctor in same way such girls can not be considered as Jatnis, but such couples' 3rd or 4th generation kids will be considered as Jats (provided it will be the burried truth that some woman 3rd or 4th generation ago was a non-jat in the dynasty). If such girls want to be considered as Jatnis then they should move to such place to live where no one knows about them. They should adopt all Jat characterstics including dialect and tell others that they are Jats (As such girls' husband is a Jat so no one will suspect them).
I don't think that who are pure Jats here (kids of both mother and father Jats), there was no intercaste marriage in their dynasty ever (I should say there may be such possibility in some Jats here)...can anybody tell who was the grandmother of his grandfather...? I think mostly will answer 'no'....but such guys are pure Jats because no one knows it that some woman was a non-Jat in their dynasty.

upendersingh
September 1st, 2010, 04:59 AM
Does that mean we are doing the same racial profiling that the NAZIS DID IN WW2? They went back to grandparents era and if they found jewish blood, they were condemned as jews and killed.


No, we Jats are not Nazis or alike. We Jats are very kind, merciful, hardworking, loyal, patriot and brave people. We can't do so. In fact, we don't have Nazi's like problem. It is not enough to say 'we are best'. How are you best, That's the real question. One must have logics before saying so. Isn't it? We have logics, but Nazis didn't.




An American friend theorised that V Jats came from an ancient GERMAN PROVINCE CALLED "JUTLAND". No, wonder many of us Jats continue to have this Oh, so superior NAZI attitude, which the yanks here will have us clobbered for.


Germany is not as great country as India, so I will not be happy even if your American friend's theory is true. We Jats have got a lot from the soil of India, so it is every Jat's duty to pay back as ever, if needed.




If V continue this "V Jats R superior" attitude and DNA, racial profiling etc...the U.S, may bring this to the notice of the international society - that V JATS R NAZIS IN DISGUISE:D (Jus' Kidding)


In such case U.S. will be made understand, what we want to convey. It should be seen in the sense of creating competition spirit and I bet they will find themselves in worry as they too are nothing to us (Americans are mental slaves of an Israeli 'Jesus Christ'). :)




Due to skewed sex ratio, there are lots of Jat guys out of sheer desperation, marrying even Kerala Girls, for e.g. Karnam Malleshwari married a Haryanvi Jat..:confused:


Don't you watch Discovery or National Geographic like channels?:) When one area's lions attack the other area's lions, then winner lions kill the loser lions, but not the lioness. In a group of monkey, the chief welcomes she monkeys of other group, but not the male monkeys. It is natural. So problem will be when Jat girls will start going to the Kerala's males.




So V stick to the simplest truth in life gleaned from the book "Tibetan Book of Living and Dying". All of us die...lets live a life of simplicity and happiness...with none superior or inferior.


Devika Ji, this book seems to be some bullcrap I think as it is preaching equality. In this way this book preaches to not to work harder. According to the theme of this book, in a class we shouldn't motivate the students to work harder and we should ask them to be lazy (because none is superior or inferior). In some company, same salary should be given, be it shirker or hard worker.

Recently Samar had said in one of his posts that 'Nature had made things according to Her plan, not according to the petty thoughts of humanity.'

Very true. Try to understand the nature of this world, Devika Ji. Performance matters here.

anilsangwan
September 1st, 2010, 11:36 AM
Probably, that is why this site is also names like jatland........ :rock ..... also, it would be interesting to know if what Mr Venkat has to say here on this theory? :rock :rock


An American friend theorised that V Jats came from an ancient GERMAN PROVINCE CALLED "JUTLAND". .

singhvp
September 2nd, 2010, 10:03 AM
So problem will be when Jat girls will start going to the Kerala's males.
Very true. Try to understand the nature of this world, Devika Ji. Performance matters here.
Recently Samar had said in one of his posts that 'Nature had made things according to Her plan, not according to the petty thoughts of humanity.' Hmm. Very bad. Upender, this is male chauvinism and a dangerous gender bias. If male-folks of Jats have a right to marry outside caste, why not females.

Do you think girls/women are under-performers? Even if they are, their performance should not be linked to their freedom of marital options.

Man has always been tempering with nature to make it suitable for his convenience. So, we can change the marital rules of nature, if the same prohibit marrying outside caste.

singhvp
September 2nd, 2010, 10:09 AM
Does that mean we are doing the same racial profiling that the NAZIS DID IN WW2? They went back to grandparents era and if they found jewish blood, they were condemned as jews and killed.
An American friend theorised that V Jats came from an ancient GERMAN PROVINCE CALLED "JUTLAND". No, wonder many of us Jats continue to have this Oh, so superior NAZI attitude, which the yanks here will have us clobbered for. If V continue this "V Jats R superior" attitude and DNA, racial profiling etc...the U.S, may bring this to the notice of the international society - that V JATS R NAZIS IN DISGUISE:D (Jus' Kidding)

Due to skewed sex ratio, there are lots of Jat guys out of sheer desperation, marrying even Kerala Girls, for e.g. Karnam Malleshwari married a Haryanvi Jat..:confused:

So V stick to the simplest truth in life gleaned from the book "Tibetan Book of Living and Dying". All of us die...lets live a life of simplicity and happiness...with none superior or inferior.

Very mature thoughts.

upendersingh
September 3rd, 2010, 01:03 AM
Hmm. Very bad. Upender, this is male chauvinism and a dangerous gender bias. If male-folks of Jats have a right to marry outside caste, why not females.

The marriages, mentioned in related posts, are neither arranged nor love marriages. Mostly those poor girls are bought. It is clear that the parents of such poor girls either don't toil in fields or they don't try to come out of the web of poverty. If Jat girls also start to be sold to the others, then it will be a matter of shame for us.


Do you think girls/women are under-performers? Even if they are, their performance should not be linked to their freedom of marital options.

You mistook the word 'performance'. We Indians used to plough our fields and we had gathered huge amount of wealth around year 1000. Then some hungry and poor people started attacking and plundering us. Was it fair? What was our fault? Would somebody come forward to do the justice? After that Britishers came here as they had developed guns, while we still had petty swords to fight. They ruled us for a long period. Would somebody come forward to do the justice? When we Indians vowed to perform and got ready to sacrifice then the things changed. So I meant that 'performance' (karma in other words). Sometime before Kashmiris had asked the Kashmiri Pandits that 'your females can live in valley, but not you (males).' Would now somebody come forward to do the justice?
Actually all such great preachings can be followed if others too follow these. We follow, but others don't, then it will be self-destructive. It means we don't want to perform here. We just want to live in comfort zone. We shouldn't let our girls marry in other caste without testing their love for the other caste's boy. Love should always be tested.


Man has always been tempering with nature to make it suitable for his convenience. So, we can change the marital rules of nature, if the same prohibit marrying outside caste.


Sir, mostly people these days think same (e.g. we all human beings are equal. What the hell these castes are? He is Muslim, he is Hindu, he is Christian...what the rubbish this is? He is black, he is white...he is Russian...he is German? The world should be free from all such craps. Life is very precious, so enjoy it to the fullest.
But no avail. It seems world will keep running as it should be and all such preachings will prove uneffective, because while preaching such things we forget about the nature of this world, the purpose for the creation of this world. 'We all are equal' is such a rule to follow as some students has solved 10 questions out of 10 and some only 2 or 3 out of 10, but marks for all students of the class are same. Who have solved all 10 questions, they will not bear it. And the same is happening. At least I think so, others views may differ.

Samarkadian
September 3rd, 2010, 12:32 PM
Upender you have evolved as a poster manyfolds.

What if Nazis were right in there epoch? We were made to hate Nazis by Western Jews Control Media.

Jat Nazis[if any] are many times better than Liberal Nazis who are hell bent on uselessly proving themselves in front of hypocritic biased cattle folk media and modernised zombies.

JKundu
September 3rd, 2010, 07:26 PM
According to me :

A Jat boy marrying a girl of another caste has no right to call himself a JAT , forget about the caste status of that girl....

Similarly for a JATNI marrying another caste boy.

Exceptions are always there : Like the case of some Haryanvi lad marrying a Keralite girl due to compulsion from both ends.....either due to poverty or any other reason.

Whenever there is no GREED either from girl side [mostly greedy refugan girls(pros) ] or boy side , intercaste marriages are acceptable but should not be promoted.

To me : Jat of Haryana is different to Jat of UP or MP or Rajasthan or Punjab.

Jat of Haryana marrying a Jatni of UP(say) is equal to Intercaste Marriage in my eyes.

vijay123
September 3rd, 2010, 07:38 PM
True both ways. Jat of every region thinks they are superior. UP jats think they are superior to Haryanvi and other jats. Even in UP jats in certain area thinks they are superior than the others (chaugama wale, jamna paar and many such areawise distinction etc).


To me : Jat of Haryana is different to Jat of UP or MP or Rajasthan or Punjab.

Jat of Haryana marrying a Jatni of UP(say) is equal to Intercaste Marriage in my eyes.

upendersingh
September 5th, 2010, 02:29 AM
Upender you have evolved as a poster manyfolds.

What if Nazis were right in there epoch? We were made to hate Nazis by Western Jews Control Media.

Jat Nazis[if any] are many times better than Liberal Nazis who are hell bent on uselessly proving themselves in front of hypocritic biased cattle folk media and modernised zombies.


Samar bhai, I don't want to be poster manifolds, but when I see the posts of others in Internet world, then I feel very grateful to those kind guys. Mostly pictures, entertaining videos, other informational articles and many more, mostly are posts in fact, sent by the posters. So if I find something worth sharing, then I post that here.
Well, about the Nazis I would like to say that I can't digest their ideology about their great race and I think Jats can never be like them. Jats will/should rule the world without taking any pain. Where can we get ANWD (Anti-Nuclear Weapon Device) from? What...from nowhere...hmmm...then we will have to wait till we get it...:)

dkumars
September 8th, 2010, 10:35 AM
Dunno where from ppl bring such topics which ultimately run around Jat/blood/true jat/haryana etc..........
When will we change?

But, via such threads, I get a good laughter on many posts and get to know how the so called educated and enlightened Jats think :)

Cheerssss!!! Jatssssss, the royal blood.

Fateh
September 13th, 2010, 07:24 AM
VIJAY Bhai, as per well established & existing social norms and pervailing legal provisions on the topic, Yes such woman will aquire status of jatni, a perticular relation with various members of the family ,share in the property, legal & social status. It is not necessary that a girl by birth jatni can only give jat sanskar to her children. I agree with mr kumar that we should avoide such topics.

lalitpanwar
September 15th, 2010, 12:27 PM
very right fateh bhai

sahrawat
September 15th, 2010, 07:41 PM
भाई Blood तॊ सब्का रॊयल् है , जाट कॊइ चान्द् पॆ तॆ नहि आ रॆ.
कुल मिला कॆ , छॊरी सूथ्री , शान् शकल् की और् व्यव्हार् कुशल् होनी चाहिए.फॆर चाहॆ वा बॆसक कॆरला की हॊ.
सॊचॊ ज Adam जाट हॊता और Eve malyali हॊती :confused:, फॆर् तॊ चाल लिया था सन्सार्.
फॆर् कॆ Adam royal blood की दही ज*माव् अर् , कसाई?

rakeshdhaka
September 15th, 2010, 08:28 PM
Jooda to Jat oor jaatni ka hi aacha ho se par mazburi oor ladkiyan ki kaami main kuch bhi kah lo bhai.
Balak to choodi ke bhi paida hoo jange kerla ke karega.

ajaysinghkundu
September 15th, 2010, 08:47 PM
Nice thread by my very educated Jats.... Are we trying to create a world full of Jats or is it that other human races or castes are inferior. All have their morals and values.
I am not promoting inter-caste or inter-region marriages but is it not possible that a Keralite girl can also bring good values with her. In this world where people and societies are well educated, these matters should be left to individuals to decide.

vikasJAT
September 18th, 2010, 09:40 AM
Bhai ye VICE VERSA wala system galat hai..................bhai bolne se koi jaat ni hota jaat k rang_dhang to uske blood me hote hain aur koi use change ni kar sakta chahe vo kisi jaat se shadi kare ya non-jaat se.

bhai aajkal apni side me ek aur system hai ki agar kisi ki shadi na hoti to vo bihar ya bangal ki ladkiyo se shadi kar lete hain.............aaj k time har gaam me 2-3 case aise milna common hain..................islye ye baat UN LOGO SE PUCHO TO ACHA HAI.VO AAPKO DETAIL ME SAMJHA SAKTE HAIN...............:rock:rock:rock:rock:rock

mhundpuriamann
October 10th, 2010, 12:52 AM
Bhaiyon Royal Blood flows in Royal Veins only.... Ab chaye kuch bhi keh lo....


]He is truly conscious jat, his each word is meaningful and has weight.

ravichaudhary
October 11th, 2010, 04:35 AM
Jats have a historical tradition of being very open minded, on accepting ladies from other communities into their fold.


They have always been egalitarian as a community/ They have always been respectful of women and women’s rights.

There is a saying “ jat ke aayi, jatni kelayi”

Women from other communities have always been fully accepted. There has been no discrimination against them. They and their children have always had full inheritance rights.

They have always been treated as full fledged Jats.

Those interested are welcome to go through the books on History section, and also through the archives.

Ravi Chaudhary

vicky84
October 11th, 2010, 05:59 AM
Jats have a historical tradition of being very open minded, on accepting ladies from other communities into their fold.


They have always been egalitarian as a community/ They have always been respectful of women and women’s rights.

There is a saying “ jat ke aayi, jatni kelayi”



Though I respect your point of view but I do not agree with it. Jats are still not that open in Haryana. I am not sure about other states but in Haryana, marrying a Non Jat girl is still not that acceptable. For example if a boy married to some Dalit girl, people do not see that as a respectable in the society. Those Jat families members have to face a lot of backbiting and taunitng from the society. Some will say.. "Rai yu to Chamari bya laya. Isnai to katti izzat mitti mai mila di. Jaton mei kya choriyon ki kami reh gayi thi". Casteism is not that easy to go away from the soceity.

ravichaudhary
October 11th, 2010, 09:13 AM
Though I respect your point of view but I do not agree with it. Jats are still not that open in Haryana. I am not sure about other states but in Haryana, marrying a Non Jat girl is still not that acceptable. For example if a boy married to some Dalit girl, people do not see that as a respectable in the society. Those Jat families members have to face a lot of backbiting and taunitng from the society. Some will say.. "Rai yu to Chamari bya laya. Isnai to katti izzat mitti mai mila di. Jaton mei kya choriyon ki kami reh gayi thi". Casteism is not that easy to go away from the soceity.


You are correct in this. This is increasingly the situation today.

I am refering to historical times.


Old traditions are being broken.

Even on widow remarriage. Previously it was customary for the girl to married to the deavr.

Today there are those who wish to avoid marrying a widow at all.

Yet at the same time, there are many who will marry without any hesitation.

Similarly we find, and I expect we will increasingy find that marriages of both Jat boys and girls will occur in other communities.

This will create family tensions, but it is a trend that will grow.

Best regards


Ravi Chaudhary

ravichaudhary
October 11th, 2010, 09:44 AM
Readers may wish to reflect on:

1) What are rights of a non jatni marrying a jat man.

2) What are the rights of the off spring?

in respect of

a) inheritance

b) social- will the offspring be treated as Jats, and will other Jats marry them or not

Also please reflect on the increasing trend, of bringing in spouses from other states- purchasing the bride.( which was an old acceptable custom)


Ravi Chaudhary

narendersingh
October 16th, 2010, 11:57 AM
Jataan key chhorey haandey gaalaa mein
Chhoree padh collejaa mein
Tholaa jamaa maarey naa khetaa mein
Taley gaadee chaheeye handan nein galaa mein
Zulaf takravai daandaa mein
Sutnee utreee talaa mein
Kurtee chadee upar mein
Pher Hoor chaheeye talmaa lakha mein
Bas waha to naa pavagee jataa mein
Laanee paregee pardesaa mein

Haq huuqooq kho jagaa kitabaa mein
Kagazee lal hongey baataa mein
Jatpanaa rah jagaa kitabaa mein
Nyaree khichdee pakegee pateelaa mein
Kadhaee khujagee pagdeeya mein
Baat raheja gee vichaaraa mein

vdhillon
November 25th, 2010, 11:26 PM
Lets segregate racial purity of jats in few areas:
1. Based on genes - it does not exist
2. Based on cultural norms
3. Based on acceptance - by prominent or majority jat familes in your area
4. Combination of all of above
5. Who cares

Now lets take a closer look.

1. The concept of racial purity does not exist. It has been concluded by many peer reviewed scientific studies. Latest genetics tests now can provide % of Asian, Indian, African and white genes in each one of us. All of us have all these 3 or four racial types of genes (every white has some back jeans and vice versa).

2. Based on how much we practice jat cultural norms
Does that mean jats living a very diff lifestyle in western world are no longer jats? Or a Punjabi migrant from Pakistan, living in Haryana, who speaks Haryanvi dialect, does all the things as local jats do, is that punjabi mroe jat than 2nd-generation jat living overseas in a western country. Humsssss.


3. Based on acceptance - by prominent or majority jat familes in your area
If you are distinguished, have power or money, well they will accept you. It matters only for those who are poor jats. Paisa aur power bolta hai. Ha! what hypocrisy!

4. Combination of above
None of the above-mentioned 3 factors mattered, combining them is wont matter either.

5. Who cares - Egg-jack-lee.
You are as jat as you feel. Mate, dump the dogma.
Your caste is just one of many associations we use to define our identity. Depending on their circumstances, individuals attribute stronger weight to adherence to these associations (clan, tribe, caste, religion, nationality, etc) in order to define their identity. For some religion is more important than caste and for some nation if more important than caste, for some survival (mulla jat who converetd vs hindu jat who prefered to die than convert) is more important. Whatever works for you mate. Each one to their own. Maast raho, apna kahte ho, aapne hisaab se jiyo. Koi ke kar lega.

Knowledge will set you free. But then again, ignorance is a bliss.

Ok, enough of this heavy stuff, lets be blissfully free, bring out da vodka. VP Sing ji and RavinderJeet, bhai tawle se aa jao, thara hokka sulgan laag ra su. Burrrah!!!!!!!! ... lol

narendersingh
November 29th, 2010, 11:02 PM
History repeats itself.It has repeated very soon.
No doubt in the near future conditions will worsen up in case of Jat boys.Marrying will be a real problem.We have to be alert at an early stage.

singhvp
November 30th, 2010, 07:22 AM
Originally posted by vdhillon

Ok, enough of this heavy stuff, lets be blissfully free, bring out da vodka. VP Sing ji and RavinderJeet, bhai tawle se aa jao, thara hokka sulgan laag ra su. Burrrah!!!!!!!!
Vishal, very good analysis about 'Jat Royalty'. Even though, I gave up smoking long ago, I feel tempted to have a few puffs of 'Hokka' again. Eagerly awaiting 'hokka mehfil'. घर का बनाया हुआ तम्बाखू होगा तो शूट्टे मारण मैं और भी सुवाद सा आज्यागा I

ajaybeni
November 30th, 2010, 07:54 AM
damn no man

vdhillon
December 1st, 2010, 09:47 PM
Vishal, very good analysis about 'Jat Royalty'. Even though, I gave up smoking long ago, I feel tempted to have a few puffs of 'Hokka' again. Eagerly awaiting 'hokka mehfil'. घर का बनाया हुआ तम्बाखू होगा तो शूट्टे मारण मैं और भी सुवाद सा आज्यागा I

@VPsingh ji: ha ha ha. , hukka was just a metaphor for the party mood or congregation of doo-chaar jats, I do not smoke either, occasional drink is the only vice.

@Narender Singh: Hopefully, skewed sex-ratio will force the grass-root level jats to dump their casteist dogma and engage in more liberal and progressive alliances with other communities.

akshaymalik84
December 3rd, 2010, 11:56 AM
आज कल तो इसा हो रया है ......जाट अगर दूसरी कास्ट में शादी करे तो उसकी कास्ट चेंज हो जा है........जैसे......किसे बाहमनी ते ब्याह कर लिया ते बाह्मन बन गया ......बाननी ते कर लिया ते बनिया बन गया ......और विचार भी उन ऐ जिसे हो जा है .......

bishanleo2001
December 3rd, 2010, 12:11 PM
Theek keh raha hai akki, yo topic eesa ho raha hai jo har 2-3 mahine main aa le hai.....bera konni log apne aap ne jat kehlwan main te eetna proud feel kare hai... arr jab community ke customs..rules.. follow karan kee baat aawe hai ye sabte bade "pyar ke dewta" arr "modern jat" ban jaa hai......arr eese topic pe bahesh karan wale manne eese lage hai,,jinte eese koi ook-chook pahle te ho rakhi ho.... arr wo bas apne jee ne tasaali den tai apne jeesa koi aur dukhiyara tohan ne aawe hai, jo unki baata ne samarthan de de.....
आज कल तो इसा हो रया है ......जाट अगर दूसरी कास्ट में शादी करे तो उसकी कास्ट चेंज हो जा है........जैसे......किसे बाहमनी ते ब्याह कर लिया ते बाह्मन बन गया ......बाननी ते कर लिया ते बनिया बन गया ......और विचार भी उन ऐ जिसे हो जा है .......

amitdabas22
December 3rd, 2010, 12:32 PM
bhaiyon dekhan ke cheej ye hai ki itna tagda ravaiya leke hum aaj nahi jee sakte.
Kyunki sab bhai agar jobs ya business me hai to sab castes ke logon se interaction hota hai. agar vahan jaat jaat hi karte rehge to kucch nahi milta.
ab to metropolitan image rakho.
Arr jis ne jit byaah karna hai karan do ne bhai. Arr koon ke banaega chhodo is baat ne.

vdhillon
December 7th, 2010, 08:11 PM
I have read on this forum few times that non Jatnis married to Jat guys become Jatnis but not vice verse.

I agree with vice verse thing but at the same time I myself also do not agree that non Jatnis (Bahmni, baniya, biharan, rajput, chamari, jogan etc) can become Jatnis by marrying jats. It is in DNA and can not be acquired by taking seven feras with a jat guy, how would a non jatni who has not lived among jats explain and teach the jat traditions to her kids when she herself wont know. How will she know the dialect? On the contrary she will avoid the dialects, traditions etc and try to impose hers on the kids. Please post your views and participate in the poll.

Ample historic evidence, jats for ages have been engaing in polygamy, polyandry and procuring women from other castes including purchasing/forcing and in all cases they adhered to 'jat ke Ayi, Jantni Kehlayi'

In Bingley’s, History, Caste, and Culture of Jats and Gujjars, 1899, he mentions:

It is thus possible for a Jat to marry a Gujar, and vice versa. Even women of the lower castes can be so married, but the woman is then called a heri hui, although the contract is perfectly legal.

---

M.C. Pradhan mentions about this in The Political System of the Jats of Northern India, 1930:

The third form of marriage is called mol-lana, or buying a woman, The woman is bought for cash from her parents or guardian and may be of any caste or community….Cases of buying women of Brahmin and Muslim castes are not infrequent, but if the caste of a woman is known to be low, this fact is kept secret and she is passed off as belonging to some high caste….Children raised from mol-lana marriages are considered legal heirs to the father's property….Although the buying of a wife used to be sometimes to be practiced by the Jats on account of the scarcity of women, created probably by the custom of female infanticide which was prevalent among them about sixty or seventy years ago, it is now most uncommon. Infanticide itself has completely died out.

[I’ll add to this when I Jat married a lady by Chadarband, the offspring of the first marriage are entitled to half the estate, while those produced after must share out of the remaining half – it is not equality distributed!]

---

Harry Izmirlian Jr.'s book, Structure and Stategy in Sikh Society, 1979. In this quote it should be mentioned that his is talking about Nalli, a Grewal village:

Polyandrous relations, or relations approximating polyandry, are more in evidence than polygynous relations. A number of brothers will often share the sexual privileges of one wife. Most villagers presume that this is the case when there is but one married son and a number of brothers. (This presumption appears justified, for taking down genealogies, a number of persons were not certain as to which of the brothers was their biological father.)

ritu
December 8th, 2010, 05:38 AM
bhai akshay vivahit jeevan me bahut saare adjustment karne padte hai .aur prem vivah me to aur bhi batti.....its all part of that.eb taahi te tu samjh hi gya hoga ye saare raase.
आज कल तो इसा हो रया है ......जाट अगर दूसरी कास्ट में शादी करे तो उसकी कास्ट चेंज हो जा है........जैसे......किसे बाहमनी ते ब्याह कर लिया ते बाह्मन बन गया ......बाननी ते कर लिया ते बनिया बन गया ......और विचार भी उन ऐ जिसे हो जा है .......

vdhillon
December 8th, 2010, 11:46 PM
There is ample well documented empirical evidence that over the centuries jats have resorted to marrying outside the caste for various reasons (which Ravi ji alluded to in post# 34), a right that was not allowed to jat women in the past but now increasingly many jat female are exercising this fundamental right to chose a partner. Though social dogma against both male and more so against female continues to exist.

narwaldeepak
December 9th, 2010, 12:07 AM
आज कल तो इसा हो रया है ......जाट अगर दूसरी कास्ट में शादी करे तो उसकी कास्ट चेंज हो जा है........जैसे......किसे बाहमनी ते ब्याह कर लिया ते बाह्मन बन गया ......बाननी ते कर लिया ते बनिया बन गया ......और विचार भी उन ऐ जिसे हो जा है .......


aadmiya ka te bera na bahi.. baaki aade kai jatni sardara me doob rahi hain.... kasuti punjaban ho rahi hain... jma pure ...

ar ib wo jmana na rahya ak jata ka rukka hoya karta... kamjor ho gye mhare nojwan,,, ib te jantniya ne e dusra me interest aan lag gya :)

Saharan1628
December 11th, 2010, 07:51 AM
aadmiya ka te bera na bahi.. baaki aade kai jatni sardara me doob rahi hain.... kasuti punjaban ho rahi hain... jma pure ...

ar ib wo jmana na rahya ak jata ka rukka hoya karta... kamjor ho gye mhare nojwan,,, ib te jantniya ne e dusra me interest aan lag gya :)
jamaa sahi keh hai bhai....
Gaam ki choriyan ne koi byaahna nhi chahta...er shahar ki choriyan ne koi phark hi nhi padta...and this is true for boys as well..
Aaj kal to haryanvi bolan mai bhi sharam maane hain...tradition follow karna to door ki baat hai..
but one things for sure: You cant be guaranteed that you will be more happy to be married in jat society than in an other caste...
First follow the love and then arrange marriage to hai hi......

urmiladuhan
November 6th, 2013, 11:52 AM
There is ample well documented empirical evidence that over the centuries jats have resorted to marrying outside the caste for various reasons (which Ravi ji alluded to in post# 34), a right that was not allowed to jat women in the past but now increasingly many jat female are exercising this fundamental right to chose a partner. Though social dogma against both male and more so against female continues to exist.

Many jat historians trace their ancestry to Kushanas, who are considered to have come to India from Central Asia, as conquerors about 2300 years ago. It is highly unlikely that Kushan armies had woman recruits or otherwise had them as accompaniments (but cannot be totally ruled out) from Central Asia, their homeland. So once these armies have settled in India, it is only plausible that they married Non Kushan women of Indian soil (for the sake of this discussion, read them as Non Jatni). So historically speaking, jat men i.e., have married non jatnis and their off springs are jats. Is it not so? I ask specifically the jat historians.

urmiladuhan
November 6th, 2013, 12:09 PM
Though I respect your point of view but I do not agree with it. Jats are still not that open in Haryana. I am not sure about other states but in Haryana, marrying a Non Jat girl is still not that acceptable. For example if a boy married to some Dalit girl, people do not see that as a respectable in the society. Those Jat families members have to face a lot of backbiting and taunitng from the society. Some will say.. "Rai yu to Chamari bya laya. Isnai to katti izzat mitti mai mila di. Jaton mei kya choriyon ki kami reh gayi thi". Casteism is not that easy to go away from the soceity.
It is best in my opinion if the characteristics that make Dalits as Dalits are discussed first, as that may help find the root cause of such an attitude.