Sukbir Siwaich, Times of India on Jats

[jatofbhiwani]

Dear Jatland members,

Please read this article in times of India
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Incest-Haryanas-shameful-social-heritage/articleshow/6451268.cms

It is a very bad article i don't know why have they written it in an eminent newspaper maligning our state
DO THESE THINGS NOT HAPPEN IN OTHER STATES?

[Samarkadian]

This is Sukhbir Siwach(Author of the report) and DR Chaudhary's personal propaganda. Ironically he didn't mention the incestual act of DR Chaudhary who is married in his own village.

[jatofbhiwani]

not good

[singhvp]

This is a gross mis-representation of facts. The incidence of incest in Haryana is, perhaps, the lowest in the country. It is a universal phenomenon and cannot be ruled out in other states as well as the metropolitan cities - the assumed 'hubs of sophistication and civilized culture'. People in villages are rather less prone to such lowly acts as they are grappling with so many problems for their survival which makes them so rugged and tough that they are able to refrain from such sinful acts. This was a cheap attempt to malign a community and amounts to yellow journalism. Every wrong doing should not be attributed to the Khaps. Having said that I do not agree with Samar's contention that DR Choudhary indulged in an act of incest by marrying a girl from his own village. As we have already discussed, it is customary in his village to marry a girl from the same village and many other people have done so. We may not agree to his viewpoint on this matter but we should try to be objective in our assessment.

[vijay123]

Few days back when our Home Minister raised the controversy of Bhagwa Aantakwad, then there were lots of protests from various political leaders. This issue is also similar, slandering entire rural community of a state. If Haryana MLA/MPs has any spine then they should raise this issue in parliament and issue a parliamentary privilege notice to TOI editors. If they wanted to report it honestly, then they should have published the figures/stories of incest/rape from Delhi also. These are just crimes and they happen in every part of the world.

Even murders happen in Haryana (and of course in other parts of the country) but does that mean someone can write a story saying that Khaps are not doing anything for that and therefore Haryana people are barbarians?

[hemanthooda]

Sukhbir Siwach has gone crazy:mad::mad::mad: it seems that he is after publicity!!!

These type of relationships exist throughout the country & throughout the world.Choosing one state of the country shows his prejudice.Why dont he gave data of other states.Newest low in sensationalist journalism.Shame on him & TOI!!!! :(

[jatofbhiwani]

IS Sukhbir Siwach a jat? Is he from Haryana?
Read the lines of Article
'The youth, interestingly, believe that incest is a traditional practice and not a new reality. "Yeh to hame virasat mein mili hai (incest is a part of our tradition), " says Naresh Kumar, a villager in Rohera in Kaithal district. Sociologists, in turn, say that the ethnic history of the region is full of such instances.'

Read more: Incest: Haryana's shameful social heritage - India - The Times of India (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Incest-Haryanas-shameful-social-heritage/articleshow/6451268.cms#ixzz0xukeKoKh) http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Incest-Haryanas-shameful-social-heritage/articleshow/6451268.cms#ixzz0xukeKoKh

Where is it a traditional practice? at least not in Haryana. It is Gross attempt to malign our state.

[Arvindc]

It's a propaganda by media. This is not the first time, TOI is has been doing it since long.

What you can do is stop your subscription fo TOI. That is the most practical approach. Yun dukhara rone se kuch nahin hoga. Do some action.

[ravichaudhary]

It's a propaganda by media. This is not the first time, TOI is has been doing it since long.

What you can do is stop your subscription fo TOI. That is the most practical approach. Yun dukhara rone se kuch nahin hoga. Do some action.


It is not TOI, but the individuals like Mr Siwaich , who are doing the writing.

Siwaich is a jat name.

Question becomes why a jat is writing such scurrilous, anti community material ??


They are not however difficult to handle.

Start with writing to them on their e -mails. Invite them to our workshops, seminars and discussin boards.

Sooner or later, logic prevails, and they stop writing material that has no basis.

TOI has now stopped writing virulent anti Jat material.

This leaves a few people like Siwaich.



Ravi Chaudhary

[sanjaymalik]

It is not TOI, but the individuals like Mr Siwaich , who are doing the writing.

Siwaich is a jat name.

Question becomes why a jat is writing such scurrilous, anti community material ??


They are not however difficult to handle.

Start with writing to them on their e -mails. Invite them to our workshops, seminars and discussin boards.

Sooner or later, logic prevails, and they stop writing material that has no basis.

TOI has now stopped writing virulent anti Jat material.

This leaves a few people like Siwaich.



Ravi Chaudhary

Ravi ji,

Debate ar dicussion te na mane ye, en sara ne Sukhbir Siwach etc etc barga ne kathe kar ke gola lathi la ke ki te sunsan kheta me kothade pe rok ke ar kothade me makode chhod dene chahiye.

aapni community ke jaichand hain ye jo aapni community ne dimak ki tariya kha hain, for cheap publicity.

[VirJ]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bangalore/Khap-act-drives-woman-to-suicide/articleshow/6482411.cms (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bangalore/Khap-act-drives-woman-to-suicide/articleshow/6482411.cms)
　
This was the latest news in TOI regarding TOI. I don’t think that TOI has stopped publishing khap news due to our protest be in the form of our comments or phone. Its just that our Indian media usually find a space goat(in any case that goes wrong) to make their headlines. Some time ago it was Lalit Modi(IPL), then it was Khap(honour killing) now it is Kalmadi(CWG). And then to justify that they have chosen the right person/body they some time fabricate news, publish only those news which can justify their case. Due to this people like Siwatch comes in picture. For Siwatch, it’s a free publicity and probably a chance to make quick money. For TOI, they can claim that Siwatch has first hand knowledge being himself a jat and that too from Haryana. So people(ignorant, from far away places) are most inclined to believe him.
　
Kalmadi wasn’t the only thing which went wrong in CWG. Still they only highlighted him and some people believed he is the only culprit This is how media works. I don’t think that Siwatch is ignorant. He probably has good knowledge about Khap and its working. So we cant really educate them through our seminars. They are not ignorant.

Also, every news paper is owned by an individual/group/management and they have their own biases or interests as we all have. Some are pro Congress, some are pro BJP. TOI is biased too and often highlight news against us. Same way as Punjab kesari did in 1980 against Jatt Sikhs. People stopped buying Punjab kesari and it was reduced as a tea stall newspaper. A reporter can publish a news in a way as to make hero a villain or villain a hero.

Regarding the incest thing which he has mentioned. There is little bit truth in it. These are very rare incidents and has very low percentage and are even rarer in Jat community. But what he did is presented this with quotes and examples, and gave it such a headline, to make it look like whole Haryana is incest. Now such rare incidents can be found in each and every community. Such incidents are reported in western societies as well. Many community don’t even consider these as incest. They have legal cousin marriages. As we all know why these incidents happen and by whom. In most cases wrong doers are immature and below the legal age.

Though it’s a good idea to call them to our 'workshop(I don’t know what we mean by this) and seminars but I believe the most effective solution would be 1. Stop buying TOI. 2. As Sanjay has suggested Gola lathi.

[devdagar]

I think following blog explains why Sukhbir Siwach has so much hatred against Jats

http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/khaplandtales/entry/love-in-the-time-of

[Arvindc]

I think following blog explains why Sukhbir Siwach has so much hatred against Jats

http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/khaplandtales/entry/love-in-the-time-of

This shows the moral values of the reporter. He is using journalism to avenge a personal incident that happened years ago.

Let's put a page on wiki bewaring people of such reporters and their personal propaganda against the community.

I have created a link on the wiki page http://www.jatland.com/home/Khap_and_National_Media. However, I could not create the corresponding page. Could the mods help?

[devdagar]

Guys
Please find interesting article/analysis of Sukhbir Siwach article

Its look like he is using Ctrl+C and Ctrl+ V a lot in his creative writing.

http://satyameva-jayate.org/2010/08/29/hindu-bashing-or-mistake/

[jagmohan]

Since Mr Siwach is so sure of incest in Haryyna, may I humbly request him to give examples of INCEST in his family so that the rest of us can be educated. May be he is NOT A MEMBER OF JATLAND, then can someone who knows him, please convey my message to him. I am really humble enough to be educated by him. And rest assured, if he can't educate me, then surely I would. That's a promise...

[upendersingh]

Overall impression of Haryana is not bad in India. Haryana is not supposed to be incest practising state. Haryana is known for its strong and stout people, prosperity, productivity and best breed of buffalos etc. So, it doesn't matter what monkeys write about Haryana. The readers also understand it and they just smile reading such articles. They scent the intention of the writer. They conclude that writer is discontent of his state/caste. So we should also smile on Siwach.

[singhvp]

@Vipin: Vipin, You have a great potential of writing a fiction. But, you should have spared DR Chaudhary and Jagmati as they have never been so virulent towards the community as a whole except for their anti honour killing stance to which they are entitled to. At least Jagmati has never indulged in singling out Jats and bashing them as a community. As far as her credentials as a Jat are concerned, she is a genuine Jat married to a Jat who is a person of high intgegrity and a revolutionary in his own right - an HAU alumnus, Haryana SFI's former General Secretary and currently, perhaps, Secretary of Haryana State Committee of CPI(M) - Comrade Inderjeet Singh. I know the couple from the time of their marriage and happened to have a brief interaction with Inderjeet at the residence of a common friend where we had a lengthy discussion on social issues. Even though ideologically there was no convergence at all in our views, I was greatly impressed by his intelligence, wit, dedication and revolutionary fervour. He sacrificed his bright carrier for the sake of his ideology which aims at betterment of the impoverished class irrespective of caste, religions and colours.

On Sukhbir's article, I have already recorded my comments and reiterate that his article was grossly misleading, full of misinformation and suffers from inaccuracies. But our offensive comments will not help us in clearing the air and projecting the image of Jat community as the cleanest one (which I believe it is) as far as incest is concerned. The matter needs to be taken up with Press Council of India or other appropriate authority regulating the scurrilous writing. We should refrain from such kind of imaginary dialogue with Sukhbir Siwach and putting words in his mouth. Otherwise, there will be no difference between his approach and ours.

[vicky84]

The matter needs to be taken up with Press Council of India or other appropriate authority regulating the scurrilous writing.

Rightly said VP ji. That is the proactive approach to tackle such issues.

[Samarkadian]

श्रीमान सिंह साहेब,
आपका लेफ्ट विंग से प्रेम समझ में आता है जैसा की आपने कई पोस्ट में जिक्र किया है किन्तु अब आप व्यक्तिगत संबंधो के आधार पर जगमती या DR को पाक साफ़ घोषित कर रहे हैं. ये बड़ा आश्चर्य चकित कर देने वाला है ! आपका मत है की ये सज्जन लोग सिर्फ *आनर किलिंग* के खिलाफ ही बोलते हैं ! जरा इनका नाम गूगल सर्च पर डाल कर इनके लेख पढ़िए ! ये दोनों विषाक्त मानसिकता से जाटों के विरुद्ध लिखते हैं ! जगमती स्वयम एक राजनितिक संघठन से जुडी है इसका तात्पर्य साफ़ है की अपने राजनितिक स्वार्थ के लिए वो ये सब सांग रच रही हैं ! पर इन दोनों मुर्ख प्राणियों को ये आभास नहीं की जाट बेल्ट में ऐसे तो कदापि वोते नहीं मिलेंगे हाँ कभी न कभी जुत इनकी सेवा अवस्य कर देंगे !

आपके संज्ञान हेतु कुछ लिंक सलंग्न हैं :-

http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2125/stories/20041217002304200.हतं
http://beta.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/article424506.ece?homepage=त्रुए
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/This-woman-wages-a-lone-battle-against-khaps/articleshow/5932833.कम्स

ये जुत महान सिवाचो , ज्ञानी धानी DRs एवं लेनिन की उतराधिकारी जगमतियो की सेवा में


http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/96752/old_shoe.jpg

विद मच हेट फ्रॉम
समर

[singhvp]

श्रीमान सिंह साहेब,
आपका लेफ्ट विंग से प्रेम समझ में आता है जैसा की आपने कई पोस्ट में जिक्र किया है किन्तु अब आप व्यक्तिगत संबंधो के आधार पर जगमती या DR को पाक साफ़ घोषित कर रहे हैं. ये बड़ा आश्चर्य चकित कर देने वाला है ! आपका मत है की ये सज्जन लोग सिर्फ *आनर किलिंग* के खिलाफ ही बोलते हैं ! जरा इनका नाम गूगल सर्च पर डाल कर इनके लेख पढ़िए ! ये दोनों विषाक्त मानसिकता से जाटों के विरुद्ध लिखते हैं ! जगमती स्वयम एक राजनितिक संघठन से जुडी है इसका तात्पर्य साफ़ है की अपने राजनितिक स्वार्थ के लिए वो ये सब सांग रच रही हैं ! पर इन दोनों मुर्ख प्राणियों को ये आभास नहीं की जाट बेल्ट में ऐसे तो कदापि वोते नहीं मिलेंगे हाँ कभी न कभी जुत इनकी सेवा अवस्य कर देंगे !

आपके संज्ञान हेतु कुछ लिंक सलंग्न हैं :-

http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2125/stories/20041217002304200.हतं (http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2125/stories/20041217002304200.%E0%A4%B9%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%82)
http://beta.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/article424506.ece?homepage=त्रुए (http://beta.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/article424506.ece?homepage=%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%8D%E0%A 4%B0%E0%A5%81%E0%A4%8F)
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/This-woman-wages-a-lone-battle-against-khaps/articleshow/5932833.कम्स (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/This-woman-wages-a-lone-battle-against-khaps/articleshow/5932833.%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%AE%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B8)

ये जुत महान सिवाचो , ज्ञानी धानी DRs एवं लेनिन की उतराधिकारी जगमतियो की सेवा में


http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/96752/old_shoe.jpg

विद मच हेट फ्रॉम
समर
प्रिय समर,
आपके द्वारा प्रेषित लिंक पहले भी कई बार उधृत हो चुके है और मै इन्हे पहले ही पढ़ चूका हूँ I इनमे नयी बात कुछ नहीं है और इन्ही के आधार पर आप जगमती या भानमती को जूता मारना चाहते है तो अपने अरमान पूरे कर के देख लीजिये I घर में बैठ कर खिड़की से जूता दिखने से क्या लाभ I परन्तु किस किस की जुबान बंद करोगे I आप के जूते को लेकर एक और बवाल खड़ा होगा और मीडिया को और मसाला मिलेगा I सो यह निर्णय तो आपने लेना है की आपने अपना जूता किस किस को और कब दिखाना है I जब लोग अमरीकी राष्ट्रपति को और हरयाणा एवं कश्मीर के मुख्यमंत्रियों को जूते दिखाने का दुस्साहस कर सकते है तो आप जैसे दिग्गज नेता को ललकारने की हिमाकत भला कौन माई का लाल कर सकता है I आप अपना लिबर्टी, बाटा या woodland वाला जूता बेशक लहराएं मुझे कोई आपत्ति नहीं I

जहाँ तक व्यक्तिगत संबंधों की बात है तो मै यही कहूँगा के जिंदगी में हम अनगिनत लोगों से मिलते हैं और भिन्न विषयों पर बातचीत करते हैं इसका मतलब यह नहीं होता के एक या दो बार किसी से मिलने से अन्तरंग सम्बन्ध हो गए किसी से I ए काश के ऐसा मुमकिन होता I अगर ऐसा होता तो न जाने कितने ही मनचाहे सम्बन्ध होते I सो ऐसा कोई व्यक्तिगत सम्बन्ध नहीं है और वो २५-३० साल पुरानी मुलाकात महज एक इत्तेफाक था जो के सिर्फ मुझे याद है वो लोग शायद इस नाचीज को कभी का भूल चुके होंगे मुझे पक्का यकीन है I हमने तो अनगिनत लोगों से मोहब्बत की है मगर दुःख इस बात का है के हमें चाहने वाले शायद विरले ही है I

वामपंथी विचारधारा का हमदर्द होने में मुझे बिलकुल संकोच नहीं है क्योंकि शहीद भगत सिंह जैसे महान क्रांतिकारी अगर इस विचारधारा को दीवानगी की हद तक प्यार करते थे तो मुझ जैसा मामूली इंसान अगर थोड़ी सी हमदर्दी दिल में रखे तो क्या बुरी बात है I अगर आप जर्मन नीत्से के अनुयायी हो सकते है तो कोई और किसी दूसरी विचारधारा का हमदर्द क्यों नहीं हो सकता I क्या आप चाहते है के लोग भ्रष्ट, सामंतवादी , पूंजीवादी , और खान्दानशाही व्यवश्था के ही तलवे चाटते रहे I फिर भी मैं आपको बता दू के मै एक रूढ़िवादी और अँधा भगत नहीं हूँ किसी राजनैतिक प्रणाली या दल का I हर राजनैतिक विचारधारा को मैं अपने ही तराजू में तोलता हूँ I मेरा समर्थन या vote हमेशा मुद्दों पर आधारित होता है न कि व्यक्तिगत समीकरण या स्वार्थपरता पर I यहाँ जाटलैंड पर भी सब राजनैतिक रंगों के लोग आपको मिलेंगे और आप भी उनमे से एक होंगे जिसको किसी एक राजनैतिक परिवार से या अपने अजेंडा se लगाव होगा I यहाँ सब किसी न किसी एजेंडा के साथ हाजिर है I मैं कोई अपवाद नहीं हूँ I

[ravinderjeet]

itne paahyaan me rhwey itney joot kahyaa karein ,ar kaadh ke bagaaye paachhe khonsdaa,to bhaai yo s khonsdaa.

[sanjeev1984]

kya hum is sale siwach ka kuch nahi kar sakte... or kuch nahi to kuch general dayer jaiya karnama to kiya hi ja sakta hai... jab tak saanp zinda rehta hai vo zehar ugalta hi hai...

[spdeshwal]

श्रीमान सिंह साहेब,
आपका लेफ्ट विंग से प्रेम समझ में आता है जैसा की आपने कई पोस्ट में जिक्र किया है किन्तु अब आप व्यक्तिगत संबंधो के आधार पर जगमती या DR को पाक साफ़ घोषित कर रहे हैं. ये बड़ा आश्चर्य चकित कर देने वाला है ! आपका मत है की ये सज्जन लोग सिर्फ *आनर किलिंग* के खिलाफ ही बोलते हैं ! जरा इनका नाम गूगल सर्च पर डाल कर इनके लेख पढ़िए ! ये दोनों विषाक्त मानसिकता से जाटों के विरुद्ध लिखते हैं ! जगमती स्वयम एक राजनितिक संघठन से जुडी है इसका तात्पर्य साफ़ है की अपने राजनितिक स्वार्थ के लिए वो ये सब सांग रच रही हैं ! पर इन दोनों मुर्ख प्राणियों को ये आभास नहीं की जाट बेल्ट में ऐसे तो कदापि वोते नहीं मिलेंगे हाँ कभी न कभी जुत इनकी सेवा अवस्य कर देंगे !

आपके संज्ञान हेतु कुछ लिंक सलंग्न हैं :-

http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2125/stories/20041217002304200.हतं
http://beta.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/article424506.ece?homepage=त्रुए
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/This-woman-wages-a-lone-battle-against-khaps/articleshow/5932833.कम्स

ये जुत महान सिवाचो , ज्ञानी धानी DRs एवं लेनिन की उतराधिकारी जगमतियो की सेवा में


http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/96752/old_shoe.jpg

विद मच हेट फ्रॉम
समर

मेरा मानना है, सिवाच जैसी वृति के लोग किसी मानसिक विकार या मानसिक आघात से ग्रस्त होते है !
इस तरह के विकार का मूल कारण, विगत में ऐसे लोग किसी तरह के असाधारण व् अनैतिक वयवहार के शिकार स्वयं भी रहे होते हैं !
ऐसा हरगिज संभव है कि मि. सिवाच या तो स्वयं इस तरह के वयवहार के भोगी रहे हैं या साक्षी रहे हैं!
खासकर बाल्यकाल में ऐसी किसी घटना से रूबरू होना उनके मनमस्तिष्क पर गहरी छाप छोड़ देता है और उनके वय्क्तितत्व को ताउम्र प्रभावित रखता है !
इन्ही कारणों के चलते ये लोग पलायनवादी हो जाते हैं ! समाजिक मान्यताओं के विरूद्ध आचरण करते हैं !
डॉ दौलतराम चौधरी, एक शिखाविद होने के साथ साथ एक प्रतिभाशाली पत्रकार भी थे ! राजनैतिक अभिलाषाएं भी थी ! अच्छी सुरुआत भी हुई ! बंसीलाल जी ने इन्हें हरयाणा प्रशाशनिक चयन बोर्ड का अध्यक्ष भी बना दिया था ! महत्वाकांक्षाएं और बढ़ी, लेकिन राजनीत एक अलग तरह का खेल है और उसमे वह विचारों और सोच के चलते अपने आपको ढाल नहीं पाए ! 'पींग शुरू किया, सिस्टम के विरुद्ध लिखते -२ हार थक घर बैठ गए ! पुरानी आदतें जब कभी कुलांचे मारती हैं तब अपनी भड़ास निकालने के लिए ऐसा कुछ लिख जाते है ! आदमी बुरे नहीं हैं , ऐसा कभी नजदीक रहे लोग मानते हैं! में भी कई बार मिल चुका हूँ !
जगमाती जी जिस संघठन से जुडी हैं, में उसे कामचोरों का 'टोल' मानता था और अब भी मानता हूँ ! ये लोग खुद, कुछ भी सकारात्मक नहीं करते और सबसे निट्ठले लोगों का समूह है !दुसरे मेहनतकश लोगों कि प्रोग्रेस से इर्षा करते हैं ! मुझे हैरानी इस बात कि होती है कि जगमती सरकारी नौकरी में होते हुए इस तरह कि बकवास लिखती रहती है !


सत्यपाल

[VirJ]

जिंदगी में हम अनगिनत लोगों से मिलते हैं इसका मतलब यह नहीं होता के एक या दो बार किसी से मिलने से अन्तरंग सम्बन्ध हो गए किसी से I ए काश के ऐसा मुमकिन होता I अगर ऐसा होता तो न जाने कितने ही मनचाहे सम्बन्ध होते I

Hehe Goodness gracious!

[ravinderjeet]

मेरा मानना है, सिवाच जैसी वृति के लोग किसी मानसिक विकार या मानसिक आघात से ग्रस्त होते है !
इस तरह के विकार का मूल कारण, विगत में ऐसे लोग किसी तरह के असाधारण व् अनैतिक वयवहार के शिकार स्वयं भी रहे होते हैं !
ऐसा हरगिज संभव है कि मि. सिवाच या तो स्वयं इस तरह के वयवहार के भोगी रहे हैं या साक्षी रहे हैं!
खासकर बाल्यकाल में ऐसी किसी घटना से रूबरू होना उनके मनमस्तिष्क पर गहरी छाप छोड़ देता है और उनके वय्क्तितत्व को ताउम्र प्रभावित रखता है !
इन्ही कारणों के चलते ये लोग पलायनवादी हो जाते हैं ! समाजिक मान्यताओं के विरूद्ध आचरण करते हैं !
डॉ दौलतराम चौधरी, एक शिखाविद होने के साथ साथ एक प्रतिभाशाली पत्रकार भी थे ! राजनैतिक अभिलाषाएं भी थी ! अच्छी सुरुआत भी हुई ! बंसीलाल जी ने इन्हें हरयाणा प्रशाशनिक चयन बोर्ड का अध्यक्ष भी बना दिया था ! महत्वाकांक्षाएं और बढ़ी, लेकिन राजनीत एक अलग तरह का खेल है और उसमे वह विचारों और सोच के चलते अपने आपको ढाल नहीं पाए ! 'पींग शुरू किया, सिस्टम के विरुद्ध लिखते -२ हार थक घर बैठ गए ! पुरानी आदतें जब कभी कुलांचे मारती हैं तब अपनी भड़ास निकालने के लिए ऐसा कुछ लिख जाते है ! आदमी बुरे नहीं हैं , ऐसा कभी नजदीक रहे लोग मानते हैं! में भी कई बार मिल चुका हूँ !
जगमाती जी जिस संघठन से जुडी हैं, में उसे कामचोरों का 'टोल' मानता था और अब भी मानता हूँ ! ये लोग खुद, कुछ भी सकारात्मक नहीं करते और सबसे निट्ठले लोगों का समूह है !दुसरे मेहनतकश लोगों कि प्रोग्रेस से इर्षा करते हैं ! मुझे हैरानी इस बात कि होती है कि जगमती सरकारी नौकरी में होते हुए इस तरह कि बकवास लिखती रहती है !


सत्यपाल
16 aaney saachi baat

[Samarkadian]

you should have spared dr chaudhary and jagmati as they have never been so virulent towards the community as a whole except for their anti honour killing stance to which they are entitled to. At least jagmati has never indulged in singling out jats and bashing them as a community.

श्रीमान सिंह साहेब,
आप स्वयं के विपिन को लिखे वाक्यांश को देखिये और पुन: मेरा प्रतिउतर पढ़िए ! आपने उदृत किया था कि ये व्यक्ति सिर्फ ''आनर किलिंग'' के खिलाफ इखते हैं और एक प्रकार से आपने जगमती कि जमानत ली है कि वो जाटों के विरुद्ध नहीं लिखती और आश्चर्य का विषय ये है कि आपको इन लेखो में तनिक भी जाट-अवमानना के चिन्ह नहीं दिखाई दिए.इस महिला के पति कैसे हैं अथवा कैसे नहीं हैं इससे इसके स्वयम कि प्रतिबधता उजागर नहीं होती !

हम इस धागे में ऐसे व्यक्तियों कि संकीरण व् नीच मानसिकता एवं निहित स्वार्थ का विवेचन कर रहे हैं न कि आपकी वामपंथी या गैर-वामपंथी राजनैतिक विचारधारा का प्रमाण ले रहे हैं! आप एक प्रबुद्ध व्यक्ति हैं और इसके लिए आपका सर्वोपरि समान करते हैं ! आप किसी भी विचारधारा को प्रेम करे इस विषय से मुझे कोई आपति नहीं है किन्तु जैसा आपने लिखा कि आप हरेक विचारधारा को विवेक के तराजू में मापते हैं तब मै पूछना चाहता हूँ कि आपको इन लेखो में कुछ भी विषाक्त नज़र नहीं आया ? यही मै अपनी पूर्व पोस्ट में भी पूछ रहा था किन्तु आपने इसे घुमा दिया !

जैसा कि देशवाल सर ने व्यख्या कि dr एक प्रतिभाशाली परन्तु कुंठित व्यक्ति है और ऐसे ही जगमती सरकारी नौकरी में रहते हुए अपनी राजनितिक अभिलाषा से इतनी मोहित है कि इसे जाटों कि अच्छी परम्पराए भी तालिबानी एवं उत्पीडन युक्त लगती है ! जब वो अपनी जीविका के प्रति ही ईमानदार नहीं है तो सामाजिक भलाई कि बात तो कोसो दूर है
जहाँ तक सिवाच का विषय है वो मतिभ्रम एवं दिवास्वप्न में वास करने वाला व्यक्ति है जिसे toi जैसे तुच्छ पत्रकारिता वाले समाचारपत्र ने स्थान दे रखा है

ये जूता आतम-रक्षा के लिए दिखाया गया है जैसा कि महान भगत सिंह ने स्वयम कि विचारधारा के पक्ष में कहा था ! और विडंबना देखिये कि उसी महान व्यक्ति कि विचारधारा वाले तथाकथित व्यक्ति[ [जगमती] शाब्दिक प्रहार कर रहे हैं

[spdeshwal]

Dear Vijay

I agree with some of your observations. We often move away from the topic of discussion and the real issue would loose its impotence during the discussion. Even I got carried away with the stand and feelings of the fellow members. In fact, I am of the view that we still shy away from discussing a sensitive topic like this.
My main objection to Mr. Siwach's article should have been on different level. Actually, my objection to his article was two folds. One was that he unnecessarily singled out Haryana. Where as Incest is prevalent in every society including Haryana and other parts of India. We have recently witnessed worst kind of incest abuse in Australia and some times back in Austria.
Other objection is to his linking this to the 'Inter Gotra" Controversy and the involvement of the khaps. It may be argued that such topics may not be fully discussed in isolation. But, at least I felt that his intention of publishing his article was deliberate attempt to invite criticism and controversy.
Also, Mr. Siwach did not provide any link or detail for his observations.At the same time, it can't also be denied that incest is prevalent in Haryana as well other part of India.
I happened to read a report presented by BBC, Conducted by some NGO RAHI in New Delhi. Here is the link:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/259959.stm

We may doubt the authenticity of the report or may not agree fully with the data but can't completely ignore it.
I hope members could discuss it sincerely or request the moderators to close the thread.

Sateypal

[spdeshwal]

Interestingly, I found no other information on this topic concerning Haryana other than Mr Siwach's article and also a dozens of blogs, sites that carry same article from TOI, including a Pakistani Daily.
The only source quoted by Mr Siwach was a study by UNICEF in Rohtak Disst. of Haryana and the sample size of 83 girls. No more information or source anywhere but vague statements by individuals in other articles.
Some statements, are unbelievably so absurd that it leads to instant irritation. Some Proff. Ravinder Kaur of IIT Delhi was quoted as saying, “In North India, the father-in-law almost had the right to physical relations with a daughter-in-law, and in most cases the female was not in a position to resist much.
The very young husband also had no say in the matter.
Widows would routinely be married to a brother of the dead husband. Sharing of the wife by brothers was also not uncommon, ” says Ravinder Kaur, a professor at IIT-Delhi.

I can understand the anger of members as we all come from that background and know how the facts have been twisted and exaggerated to sensationalize and to make it a bit spicy reading. But again I would reiterate that there would be isolated consented and unconsented cases in rural as well as urban Haryana.


Sateypal

[singhvp]

@Vijay @Deshwal ji: I fully concur with the views expressed by both of you. In fact I also owe the responsibility of taking the topic slightly off the rails by making some 'off the cuff' remarks which I feel were necessitated by introduction of two unwarranted characters in the 'Siwach Episode' by some of our distinguished writers. I couldn't help react to it as they were not directly concerned with the present episode and their articles on Khaps do not deal with 'incest'. Moreover, we had already discussed them at length under a different topic concerning same-gotra marriage etc. Hence, there was no need at all to revive these characters. This could be because of my little interaction with one of the characters that I thought it necessary to give a brief background information about her credentials.

Now that we have come on the track again, I would like to say that unparliamentary and violent reactions to objectionable articles in media are not going to help. The antics like 'display and use of shoes' may again be reported as a cheap gimmick by 'hostile' media which would further worsen the already tarnished image of Jat community. We should counter such articles by logical arguments documented through media. If we think media is biased and don't carry our articles, we must go further and take up the matter with appropriate regulatory authorities controlling media. The moderators have started a thread also on 'Jats and a dialogue with media', perhaps. Our think-tanks must make use of this thread instead of using foul language and circulating 'e-juta' on this already congested web-site. Let us make efforts to make Jatland a very rich web-site by giving our valuable inputs rather than exhorting Juta parade and 'photogaraphs of broken shoes'.

[VirJ]

The original poster wanted to discuss the below.



It is a very bad article i don't know why have they written it in an eminent newspaper maligning our state
DO THESE THINGS NOT HAPPEN IN OTHER STATES?

He asked are these things limited to rural haryana? Rural haryana means jats. Yes when the name rural haryana comes then jats comes automatically.

The original poster also said its a very bad article to malign our state? And the article was by whom? Sukhbir Siwach.

So discussing sukhbir siwach, his intentions, his motive are very well within the theme of the thread. The article has also quoted DR chaudhary, hence even he is connected though distantly. S.s's intention are very clear. Moreover in his article he didnt suggest any remedies. Also the article itself is not written after well research. His quotes from an anti hindu sites also reflect his approach. He himself forget that bhrama was cursed by shiva for 'unknowlingly' having a bad eye on his daughter. So from the very first reference in mythology incests are punished.

Also people are mixing two thing together. Child sexual abuse and incest. Though both are correlated but have different meaning.

The S.S claims it happens more in rural areas however as far as child sexual abuse is concerned. I think it happens more in urban and semi urban areas. Reason : The culprit get lonely child more often in urban areas then in rural areas. In rural areas its hard to find a lonely child except in khets as they is always someone present at home

Sukhbir Siwach says : Incest is our heritage. He also claims its more in rural haryana due to skewed sex ratio. Then how could he explain the incest in west where they have equal sex ratio? Child pornography is a problem in west. How would he explain where culprits(in child sex abuse) are married and are so called 'uncle'. What does this has to do with sex ratio?
He quoted Yama in incest reference but the fool doesnt know that Yama was against incest relation and was cursed because of that.

Anyway child sex abuse is really an issue in all societies. The solution is legalise (slowly-slowly) prostitution and sex education. Educate our children about these things so that they know if any such advances are made towards them. Educate them how to deal with such situations. Educate them to report these immediately to parents and even to police.

[bharti]

Dear fellow members,

1)I spoke to Mr Siwach over the phone and has asked him to be a member of our site.
He needs to answer some very relevant questions put up by some members here.

2) Vp ji, it seems you have not watched numerous discussions on TV where Jagmati has participated. Had you seen, you would not have defended her so.
She always speaks about Jats controlling their women and poor people and much more.
The 'rule of thumb' to control women I suppose evolved in England.
I happened to read about it in a book titled "Battered Women".

google 'thumb rule' ... i paste here some of what i got...

It is often claimed that the term originally referred to a law that limited the maximum thickness of a stick with which it was permissible for a man to beat his wife, but this has been discredited.[1][3] British common law before the reign of Charles II permitted a man to give his wife "moderate correction", but no "rule of thumb" (whether called by this name or not) has ever been the law in England.
....Nonetheless, belief in the existence of a "rule of thumb" law to excuse spousal abuse can be traced as far back as 1782, the year that James Gillray published his satirical cartoon Judge Thumb. The cartoon lambastes Sir Francis Buller, a British judge, for allegedly ruling that a man may legally beat his wife, provided that he used a stick no thicker than his thumb,

.... In the United States, legal decisions in Mississippi (1824) and North Carolina (1868 and 1874) make reference to—and reject—an unnamed "old doctrine" or "ancient law" by which a man was allowed to beat his wife with a stick no wider than his thumb.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

We Jats know our drawbacks, there is so much that needs to be done. But these Jagmatis/DRs/Siwach should stop sensationalising things for their own selfish motives.
Things will change, but at their own pace. No over-night changes can be expected in a society.
Also, not everything need to be changed.

Maligning a community in media is not going to solve any problems.
And irresponsible journalism would be harmful for these journos as well as these newspapers.


regards,
bharti.

[singhvp]

Dear fellow members,

1)I spoke to Mr Siwach over the phone and has asked him to be a member of our site.
He needs to answer some very relevant questions put up by some members here.

2) Vp ji, it seems you have not watched numerous discussions on TV where Jagmati has participated. Had you seen, you would not have defended her so.
She always speaks about Jats controlling their women and poor people and much more.
The 'rule of thumb' to control women I suppose evolved in England.
I happened to read about it in a book titled "Battered Women".

google 'thumb rule' ... i paste here some of what i got...

It is often claimed that the term originally referred to a law that limited the maximum thickness of a stick with which it was permissible for a man to beat his wife, but this has been discredited.[1][3] British common law before the reign of Charles II permitted a man to give his wife "moderate correction", but no "rule of thumb" (whether called by this name or not) has ever been the law in England.
....Nonetheless, belief in the existence of a "rule of thumb" law to excuse spousal abuse can be traced as far back as 1782, the year that James Gillray published his satirical cartoon Judge Thumb. The cartoon lambastes Sir Francis Buller, a British judge, for allegedly ruling that a man may legally beat his wife, provided that he used a stick no thicker than his thumb,

.... In the United States, legal decisions in Mississippi (1824) and North Carolina (1868 and 1874) make reference to—and reject—an unnamed "old doctrine" or "ancient law" by which a man was allowed to beat his wife with a stick no wider than his thumb.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

We Jats know our drawbacks, there is so much that needs to be done. But these Jagmatis/DRs/Siwach should stop sensationalising things for their own selfish motives.
Things will change, but at their own pace. No over-night changes can be expected in a society.
Also, not everything need to be changed.

Maligning a community in media is not going to solve any problems.
And irresponsible journalism would be harmful for these journos as well as these newspapers.


regards,
bharti.
Bharti ji, I do not claim to have watched all the TV programmes covering Jagmati but remember to have watched at least three in the recent past (one on NDTV, One on ZEE and one on some other channel may be India TV). As far as my graying memory cells recollect, she never said that incest is very common among Jats in Haryana. She was, of course, vehemently critical of the functioning of Khaps which many of us on JL also did, without maligning the entire Jat community purposely or otherwise. Therefore, the underlining argument is that she should not have been dragged on this thread which deals exclusively with the article of Mr. Siwach on a different topic i.e. alleged ‘incest’. Number two, even if she was ever reported to have been indulged in the crime of alleging Jats of incest, the punishment proposed to be handed down by our colleagues is not in conformity with our ‘rich tradition’ of respecting women. If she is guilty of tempering with our chastity, she could be contacted by our community leaders and counseled not to do so again. If she doesn’t listen, we can challenge her arguments by our counterpoints in media. If media doesn’t accommodate us we can go to Press Council or move the court with a defamation suit. Resorting to foul means viz. abusive language and display/use of shoes etc., that too against a woman, does not behove of a civilized society like ours. I do not think anybody would ever do that (and one better not to do) as it would provide the hostile sections of media another alibi to malign the community.

In our Vedas it is perhaps written somewhere that : यत्र नार्यस्तु पूज्यन्ते वसन्ते तत्र देवता. I have all respect for ladies and would be the last person to endorse any such move (including the ‘thumb rule’ as quoted by you) which contravenes the prescriptions of our rich cultural heritage and social values.


Warm regards

[VPannu]

You people have made this Siwach guy a celebrity for all the wrong reasons. I mean, was it too tough to shun him off??

[bharti]

VP ji,

Things have changed in 'recent past', so the change in Jagmatis' attack too. Have you noticed that Bengali journo no longer writes anything on Khaps and Jats and Jatland( yes, she did that story on our Jatland too)? Why? Because some things must have changed in 'recent past' :rolleyes:
Now the paper uses these Jat journalists and that too not so often.

It had been a year long campaign, or maybe for more than a year, the Benglan and her team was the one writing against Khaps/Jats. Jagmati/AIDWA and DR were in full support.
It all began with that campaign and Jagmati and DR were very much a part of that.
I do not read this story of Incest by Siwach in isolation. This is a part of that campaign and all of the Jagmatis/DRs are part of it. Moreover, marrying within gotra/village is incest for Jats and she advocates Manojs and Bablis. And here we are discussing incest in Haryana particularly among Jats. So her name is bound to be dragged in this discussion.


regards,
bharti.

[vicky84]

Dear fellow members,

1)I spoke to Mr Siwach over the phone and has asked him to be a member of our site.
He needs to answer some very relevant questions put up by some members here.


At last there is some action not words. The article written by Mr. Siwatch is just a show of poor journalism and is unwarranted. The acrimony in his article about rural society in Haryana clearly suggests that he has been influenced by some anti-social element.But the point is showing our anger in these posts in not going to stop him writing further.

We know that media plays a bigger role in shaping people opinions.Avoiding reading TOI can be a solution but not the complete one. There might be many people in India, who don’t know much about Haryana and Khaps, can be grossly miss-leaded by this poor journalism. One solution is as what VP sir has suggested, “The matter needs to be taken up with Press Council of India or other appropriate authority regulating the scurrilous writing.” Or invite these Journalist to our platform and discuss the topic at the length can help. Otherwise TOI or some other newspaper will be publishing these forever.

[VirJ]

One solution is as what VP sir has suggested, “The matter needs to be taken up with Press Council of India or other appropriate authority regulating the scurrilous writing.” Or invite these Journalist to our platform and discuss the topic at the length can help. Otherwise TOI or some other newspaper will be publishing these forever.

This is already done by many. It was raised with TOI too.

[vicky84]

This is already done by many. It was raised with TOI too.

Do you know anyone who has done this before? If that is true, then the other solution is take this matter to the court that a complaint was lodged against these newspapers for publishing fallacious information and no action has been taken by the Press council of India or some other authority.

[bharti]

Atish, there is a whole group of people following these news in TOI and other publications and reporting them too. So don't think no action is being taken.
But remember, these people only understand language of 'dhai kilo ka haath'.

[Arvindc]

worsen[/B] the already tarnished image of Jat community.
...

"yad bhaavam tad bhavati" - You perceive according to your mental makeup.

This media portrayed image of the community should be discarded. The community has given an un-matching fame to the country in sports (recently in Olympics) and has sacrificed enough lives to defend and protect the country folks to be described in a tarnished image.
On this incest thing, whoever I have spoken to on this, in last few days, no one even has even heard any such incidents in Haryana in their whole life. I am really wondering how Mr Sukhbir Siwach could build such imaginations and how was it allowed to be published in a major (circulation) daily?

[VirJ]

Do you know anyone who has done this before?

Yes I do know. Some people have reported this. Other details are in various forums. I myself have reported this as well. I reported this to TOI too and as you know Bharti ji has spoken to Sukhbir Siwach herself.

It has been 3 days now. So far I havent heard anything back. Once I hear anything back I would post it here. But I am not very hopeful of a reply.

[ravichaudhary]

I will reiterate my suggestions on how to deal with Siwaich and his ilk

Remember that at most there are now a maximum of 40 journalists, who write such baseless material.

It is not the entire media that is anti Jat, just a few people, - max 40.

40 people are easy to handle.

To keep things in perspective there are 15,000 + members on this forum, this khap. 15,000 responses will get the attention of Siwaich and his masters.

Siwaich does not own Times of India. The whole editorial team is not anti Jat.

Our task is educating the TOI editorial team. That is best done by copying them on their inaccurate reporting. They will take action as the e mail boxes are filled with truthful responses. (No need to use abusive language, no matter how upset we are).

Some months ago, I had interacted with the TOI team.

They were publishing inane material and happily editing my comments so as to present a distorted view.

The team was asked to bring the comments to the attention of their supervisors. The team was also asked to visit this forum, and the ‘Jathistory’ group, to educate them. They were also invited to contact me directly by e mail and phone.

The result - They did not contact me. They did block further comments, the number of virulent anti Jat articles decreased


I have good reason to believe, that this Jatland forum is visited by many, if not all, journalists who write on Jat affairs. Those who ignore this site do so at their own peril, and continued ignorance.

Yes , there will still be odd ignorant article out there, but no journalist worth his/her salt, and who is looking for a serious career in journalism, will write articles on the jat and ignore the material and comments on this forum.

This forum is a think tank on Jats, and increasingly is being recognized as one.

We have made much progress in the last year. Two excellent seminars have been held with the media, and this has had positive effects.

Be patient, be proactive.

Remember we are only dealing with a maximum of 30 -40 ignorant people, masquerading as journalists.

Let us educate them, on a one to one basis

We can handle them.


Here, on this thread, let us educate Mr Siwaich.

Can we debunk Siwaich's article, with fact and rationale.


I must confess that I was disturbed to find him cutting and pasting material from an anti India, anti Hindu forum for his article.


Best regards


Ravi Chaudhary

PS Mr Siwaich is again invited to join this group, and also contact the members personally.

[kapdal]

Interestingly, I found no other information on this topic concerning Haryana other than Mr Siwach's article and also a dozens of blogs, sites that carry same article from TOI, including a Pakistani Daily.
The only source quoted by Mr Siwach was a study by UNICEF in Rohtak Disst. of Haryana and the sample size of 83 girls. No more information or source anywhere but vague statements by individuals in other articles.
Some statements, are unbelievably so absurd that it leads to instant irritation. Some Proff. Ravinder Kaur of IIT Delhi was quoted as saying, “In North India, the father-in-law almost had the right to physical relations with a daughter-in-law, and in most cases the female was not in a position to resist much.
The very young husband also had no say in the matter.
Widows would routinely be married to a brother of the dead husband. Sharing of the wife by brothers was also not uncommon, ” says Ravinder Kaur, a professor at IIT-Delhi.

I can understand the anger of members as we all come from that background and know how the facts have been twisted and exaggerated to sensationalize and to make it a bit spicy reading. But again I would reiterate that there would be isolated consented and unconsented cases in rural as well as urban Haryana.


Sateypal

Deswalji, you won't find anything as there is nothing. Sukhbir Siwach writes from his imagination. I think he sees this issue as his ticket to higher echelons of journalism. So why not write something that makes people take notice of him. And being a Jat, he can claim to know Jats, while also getting an alibi that he can't write biased articles against Jats!

Ravinder Kaur is another character- she is seen in a pretty low light by the students at IIT Delhi. I won't take what she says seriously at all. She does her own academic field a huge injustice by writing these articles without any research. She has been writing articles and papers on this issue in Indian Express and Economics and Political Weekly. I had written a 4-post critique of this article of hers which is published on the comments section:
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/noose-family-ties/650636/1

I do plan to take her on at a more serious level, if time and energy permits.

[ravichaudhary]

Deswalji, you won't find anything as there is nothing. Sukhbir Siwach writes from his imagination. I think he sees this issue as his ticket to higher echelons of journalism. So why not write something that makes people take notice of him. And being a Jat, he can claim to know Jats, while also getting an alibi that he can't write biased articles against Jats!

Ravinder Kaur is another character- she is seen in a pretty low light by the students at IIT Delhi. I won't take what she says seriously at all. She does her own academic field a huge injustice by writing these articles without any research. She has been writing articles and papers on this issue in Indian Express and Economics and Political Weekly. I had written a 4-post critique of this article of hers which is published on the comments section:
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/noose-family-ties/650636/1

I do plan to take her on at a more serious level, if time and energy permits.

Kapil,

What you , Arvind , and a few others( and in time I hope we gets lots more analytical writers), are doing is the propper effective way of countering these individuals.

Old adage - "A lie unchallenged becomes the truth."

We can, and must expose these lies.


There are only 30 -40 of them. They will cease to propogate such bunk, once they know that will be challenged.

Siwaich,and co cannot have a free hand.

He is a public figure and can take the consequences.

Ravi Chaudhary

[VirJ]

Guys,

I have found contact details of some reports from Haryana. These are as belows. This has Sukhbir email as well.

Reporters From Haryana - ...rawat.jitender2@gmail.com. sanjay17sharma@gmail.com. satender2002@gmail.com. sharma.rameshvoi@gmail.com. sukhbir.siwach@gmail.com. vermaashok46@yahoo.com ...

You can contact them on these email addresses. Dont be abusive ask them genuine questions and keep the forum updated.

These are available on a journalist website.

[VirJ]

List being updated.

Email address of DR chaudhary

chaudhrydr@rediffmail.com.

Provided by DR himself

[bharti]

Dear fellow members,
This thread is being closed till tempers cool and I read all posts.
See you in the evening.

Have a nice day :-)


regards,
bharti.

[Samarkadian]

Pseudo-moralists, pseudo-secularists and neo-liberal-nazis by default are deprived of nativist pride and as an effect they feel ashamed to their association with native values. They by unconscious mental make up choose a degenerate and traitor belief and turn ecstatic with the illusion and delusion that 99% of world is with them when they are cheered up by fistful watery-eyed advocates coughing up cheap rationalisations for this self-inflicted mental syndrome.They are so much in love with victimised mentality that their conscience is emotionally unfit to discern the emotions like relations,proud,honour,history and family values. Their enfeebled soul is so sick that to satiate its hungar they like to see every defaulter some martyr in eternal love journey. They [DRs,Jagmatis,Siwachs and their supporters] sound like educated but seem to dwell in the sewarage of the academics.

[VirJ]

The problem is they got inferiority complex. They are ashamed of their roots. They see all wrong with their ancestors. Liberals, in whose company these move, make fun of them, their roots, their associations, their rituals. And then they vent it out in front of us. Because they can't vent it in front of their masters whose hands they lick. If given a chance, first thing they would do is change their roots. All is not wrong with jats and khaps!

[ravichaudhary]

Sukbir Siwaich at it again
http://publication.samachar.com/pub_article.php?id=10332951&nextids=10331614|10331991|10332951|10333520|103294 02&nextIndex=3
Pay up for your honour, govt to lovers
Sukhbir Siwach, TNN, Oct 7, 2010, 01.26am IST


CHANDIGARH/ GURGAON: Haryana government has decided to charge a fee from lovers staying in shelter homes in the khap-hit state.

The shelter homes, which are also called protection centres, were recently set up to take care of couples running away from their persecuting families who believe in the khap writ.

In an official order issued on Wednesday, the government made it clear that the charges of boarding or lodging would be determined by a committee.

From now on, boarding and lodging charges will be borne by couples staying at the shelter homes, said an official order issued on Wednesday.

Explaining the logic behind such charges, a government official said, If a boy and girl opt for marriage, then the couple should be able to meet their daily financial requirements as well. Incidentally, the decision came after reports that a couple was staying at such a home for long.

The latest decision of the state government may invite the ire of social organizations as well as intelligentsia. Its not the fault of the couples, as they are forced to stay in shelter homes for genuine fear of life, said Jagmati Sangwan, state vice-president, All India Democratic Women Association ( AIDWA).

The government has failed to provide a safe environment for lover-couples to live. Hence, it is the duty of the government to give free accommodation to the khap victims, said Sangwan, adding that their organization would approach the National Commission for Women (NCW) if the latest directions are implemented.

Upset over the concept of shelter homes, president of the Dhankhar Khap, Om Parkash Dhankhar, has apprehended the misuse of such accommodations. Dhankar is of the view that no free shelter facility should be provided to eloping couples.

Government sources said that shelter homes have been set up in all 21 districts of the state. Normally, the run-away couples would be provided shelter at the protection centres for a period of ten days.

During this period their threat perception will be reviewed by a committee. The period of shelter will be further extended by the committee from time to time for a period of maximum 10 days after each review.

Recently, the state government had disclosed that about 125 couples are living under police protection at different places in the state.

The decision to set up shelter homes had been taken in the contest of dozens of honour killings. Most of the shelter homes are located close to police lines for reasons of safety.


Read more: Pay up for your honour, govt to lovers - The Times of India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/gurgaon/Pay-up-for-your-honour-govt-to-lovers/articleshow/6702383.cms#ixzz11cthIptW

Cool! More of the politician-elite class of people refusing to do their job, refusing to protect the human rights of good, normal citizens of India. Can't wait to see the ranks of Maoists get filled with more and more Indians by the minute. Good job rich corrupt politicians in India.
Agree (0)Disagree (0)Recommend (0)Offensive
NS (Delhi)
07 Oct, 2010 03:52 AM
Then why govt not charging for providing security to politicians including all opposition and ruling? It is like charging security for naxalites affected people. It is govt's dutu to control unruly khap. This should be worst of Haryana Govt.
Agree (6)Disagree (0)Recommend (6)Offensive
Anup Kumar (Los Angeles)
07 Oct, 2010 03:35 AM
The rule of law doesn't seem to apply to Haryana. Its so sad to see that with India becoming so open over the years, the state government is going the opposite direction. In the 21st Century, if we still have problems with Love Marriages, I shudder to think what the future beholds for us. I think its time for us to wake up.
Agree (4)Disagree (0)Recommend (4)Offensive
Aditya Adhikari (Chandighar)
07 Oct, 2010 03:33 AM
How many here loved the movie "Qyamt Se Qyamat Tak"
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ASHOK MALHOTRA (USA)
07 Oct, 2010 02:08 AM
It is the primary duty of the state to provide security to its citizens. For its own political reasons, if the state cannot stop the khaps in their murderous assaults on the young men and women, the least the state can do, is to provide free shelter to such harassed couples.
Agree (19)Disagree (4)Recommend (13)Offensive
Suresh Pandey (New York City) replies to ASHOK MALHOTRA
07 Oct, 2010 05:29 AM
Here's an example of where a system other than democracy would better serve the people. If India had a China-style government that was not elected by these barbaric panchayat types who are still living in the 3rd century BC, then they could actually upload truth and human rights and fight these panchayats instead of be dependent on them for political support. Just saying. I'm an NRI, I'm fine. My parents left India because of things like honor killings, among other problems. If you guys don't wanna take any action and just occasionally write something online, be my guest. You guys are the ones who have to live in India.
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» READ ALL COMMENTS

[ravichaudhary]

[QUOTE=ravichaudhary;254063]Sukbir Siwaich at it again
http://publication.samachar.com/pub_article.php?id=10332951&nextids=10331614|10331991|10332951|10333520|103294 02&nextIndex=3
Pay up for your honour, govt to lovers
Sukhbir Siwach, TNN, Oct 7, 2010, 01.26am IST


My comment to TOI

" Khaps panchayats do not order killings . Despite Times of India’s and Siwaich’s tirades, no one has provided one single piece of evidence for this, not one photo, not one video. The reason is simple- it is an untruth.

To get an idea of the other people’s versions re TOI and to Siwaich’s tirades , visit

http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?30438-Sukbir-Siwaich-Times-of-India-on-Jats&p=254063#post254063

Readers are encourage to make up their own minds- based on fact not sensationalism.

Let us see if TOI can publish other versions.

Ravi Chaudhary

October 6, 2010 END

[singhvp]

[QUOTE=kapil.dalal;252577]
Ravinder Kaur is another character- she is seen in a pretty low light by the students at IIT Delhi. I won't take what she says seriously at all. She does her own academic field a huge injustice by writing these articles without any research. She has been writing articles and papers on this issue in Indian Express and Economics and Political Weekly. I had written a 4-post critique of this article of hers which is published on the comments section:
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/noose-family-ties/650636/1

I do plan to take her on at a more serious level, if time and energy permits.[/QUOTE

Kapil, I read your comments in reply to Ravinder Kaur Today. Your critique was excellent, highly balanced and to the point. You are a great writer, indeed.

[satyenderdeswal]

Dear Friends...

I dont know much about Jagmati or DR.

but the thing is that somebody is doubting on our culture and heritage and calling it as shameful..
Kisi aur jati ya samaj ke barey main bol kar dekhop..daant tod dengey..
er adey hum discuss karey hai ki lekh thik likhey unhoney...ya galti te likh diya...balak hai we tey...kai bhai te un ney massom batavey hai...

pher likhengey ki hum JAT hai...

Can anybody tell me whether this kind of response is expected from JATS???
.

[narwaldeepak]

Aise log sudhrte nahi... its hard to change minds and its impossible to change a mind which is tainted with a fake feeling of its being elite n special.
these guys sudnt get attention of this forum , inka ilaaz inke balak kar denge jab chuhde chamara ne inke samdhi banawenge .
fer ye budhaape me kaum ke tagde wafadaar bhi banenge . Let's not give them a damn. !!!
chhati thok ke kaho ke hum jat hain . and keep our uniqueness intact.