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riyaa
December 1st, 2010, 03:47 PM
Still there are many families in India, wants their children to marry in their own caste, still people have orthodox beliefs,Do you think a guy/girl should revolt against his/her family to get married in other caste, in a situation when they both love each other.

prashantacmet
December 1st, 2010, 04:02 PM
Still there are many families in India, wants their children to marry in their own caste, still people have orthodox beliefs,Do you think a guy/girl should revolt against his/her family to get married in other caste, in a situation when they both love each other.

"many" is not a suitable word..99 out of 100 families want to get married their children in their own caste. People with the orthodox beliefs must be hanged till death. Parents should get sentenced of 5-10 years rigorous prison if they deny a girl meeting her lover or vice versa

amitdabas22
December 1st, 2010, 04:05 PM
I hope you all will agree to the fact that these intercaste marriages are not happening only in our community. They are everywhere. But the fact that media is bringing out the whole issue in such light, is only aggravating the thing. I think education is a factor here and also bcoz of the upbringing girls feel terrified to discuss the issue with their parents. They choose to run away, which at that time appears an easier alternative, rather than discussing things with their families.

sanjeev_balyan
December 1st, 2010, 04:17 PM
Still there are many families in India, wants their children to marry in their own caste, still people have orthodox beliefs,Do you think a guy/girl should revolt against his/her family to get married in other caste, in a situation when they both love each other.

welcome to jatland Riyaa ji
synonyms of orthodox is mainstream

vikasJAT
December 1st, 2010, 04:37 PM
I hope you all will agree to the fact that these intercaste marriages are not happening only in our community. They are everywhere. But the fact that media is bringing out the whole issue in such light, is only aggravating the thing. I think education is a factor here and also bcoz of the upbringing girls feel terrified to discuss the issue with their parents. They choose to run away, which at that time appears an easier alternative, rather than discussing things with their families.

Amit bhai ye baat bhi hai aur ye bhi hai ki koi ni chahta ki unke bache other caste me shadi kare.
ye sirf Haryana Haryana me ni hai balki sabhi states me hai................

vikasJAT
December 1st, 2010, 04:40 PM
Bhai simple baat hai pyar karne se pehle he dekh lo ki apni caste ki hai ya ni......
apni caste ki ho to love karo aur na ho to mat karo..........

Bolte hain ki PYAR ANDHA HOTA HAI......... per bhai itna bhi andha na hota ki kuch bhi na dikhe.......
Pyar karne se pehle apni caste, ghar walo ki conditions ka pata karo ki match hoti hain ya ni........ aise karoge to koi problem he ni aani...........

Shibani
December 1st, 2010, 04:42 PM
I hope you all will agree to the fact that these intercaste marriages are not happening only in our community. They are everywhere. But the fact that media is bringing out the whole issue in such light, is only aggravating the thing. I think education is a factor here and also bcoz of the upbringing girls feel terrified to discuss the issue with their parents. They choose to run away, which at that time appears an easier alternative, rather than discussing things with their families.

Hi Riyaa welcome to JL..... I agree with Amit Ji specially in regards to providing kids with an open and friendly environment where kids can discuss all issues with no no inhibitions with the parents . In my thread how far we have come I am exploring this issue as well. Concept of freedom for women..... But having said this it is the responsibility of children as well to discuss at length the issue at hand and not ignore parents views.... Finally coming to a common concenus.... Because this is the way to drive a change..... Running or emotionally forcing parents is not correct...

Shibani
December 1st, 2010, 04:51 PM
[QUOTE=vikasJAT;256676]Bhai simple baat hai pyar karne se pehle he dekh lo ki apni caste ki hai ya ni......
apni caste ki ho to love karo aur na ho to mat karo..........

Bolte hain ki PYAR ANDHA HOTA HAI......... per bhai itna bhi andha na hota ki kuch bhi na dikhe.......
Pyar karne se pehle apni caste, ghar walo ki conditions ka pata karo ki match hoti hain ya ni........ aise karoge to koi problem he ni aani...........[/QUOTE. Vikas Ji agar itna kuch soch ke kiya to love at first sight ka matlab to kuch bhi nahi reh jayega....haan love is blind very true....Jo bhi Kari soch smash ke Karo...one wrong step can cost u and ur family big time

amitdabas22
December 1st, 2010, 05:12 PM
Vikas: you are probably right to say that people dont want their kids to marry outside their castes. This is perhaps due to the uneasiness that stays in such relations on account of different backgrounds and cultures. I have seen a couple of my friends who have married intercaste that though their wives are very intellectual and smart, they find it hard to gel with the elders in the family.
ShibaniJi: Well said for the parents view. Kids think that they are very mature at the time of making a matrimonial decision but later it turns that your own partner is not your only family. well this is still taking a different turn these days as people want to send their elders to old age homes or a separate house. God knows what else is left to come.

singhvp
December 1st, 2010, 05:20 PM
Love marriage or love at first sight are nothing more than infatuation and ecstatic sentiments which last only for a few years in most cases. Exceptions are, however, always there. In the prime time of their youth majority of girls/boys simply listen to their hearts and not their brains. After a few year the fever of love withers away and the inherent differences due to cultural and social diversities start cropping up leading to a final goodbye. Therefore, it is always advisable to find suitable match within the same social group/caste which is always long lasting. There is a kind of social bond which protects the marriages within community if the marriage has the consensus of family. Having said that, marital affair is a purely a private matter and others have no right to meddle into the affair of an individual if he/she marries outside caste. Have seen some successful couples also who married out of caste.

upendersingh
December 1st, 2010, 05:36 PM
ये इश्क नहीं आसान, बस इतना समझ लीजे,
एक आग का दरिया है और डूब के जाना है.
प्यार इस दुनिया की सबसे बड़ी चुनौती है. ऐसा कहा जाता है कि इस दुनिया में प्यार आज तक किसी को भी नहीं मिला. रोजाना न जाने कितने लोग प्रेमविवाह करते हैं. इसका मतलब ये हर्गिज नहीं कि उन्होंने इश्क के आगरूपी दरिया को पार कर लिया. प्यार की दुश्मन बस ये दुनिया ही नहीं है, बल्कि इस दुनिया को चलाने वाली अदृश्य ताकत भी नहीं चाहती कि कोई बिना यह आग का दरिया पार करे सच्चे प्यार का सुख ले जाए. जो लोग बिना अग्निपरीक्षा दिए प्रेमविवाह करते हैं, वे दुनिया के कहर से भले ही बच जाएं, लेकिन तब इस दुनिया को चलाने वाली ताकत उन्हें चैन से नहीं जीने देती. उन्हें कभी कुछ, तो कभी कुछ बड़ा दुःख दिया जाता है, ताकि वे बिना संघर्ष के हासिल किए प्यार का सुख न ले सकें. जो लोग प्यार संघर्ष के बाद हासिल करते हैं, वे ठीक-ठाक जीवन बिता लेते हैं.
अंतर्जातीय विवाह नीची जाति वाले लड़के के लिए जीत की तरह है, जबकि उच्च जाति की लड़की के घरवालों के लिए एक हार की तरह. मान लीजिए कोई नाई युवक किसी जाट लड़की को प्रेम जाल में फंसाकर उससे विवाह कर लेता है तो फिर लड़की के रिश्तेदारों और आस-पास के जाटों का 4 आदमियों में बैठना मुश्किल हो जाएगा. सभी दबे मुंह ताने मारने लगेंगे-'देखे बड़े जाट, एक नाई इनकी लड़की को ले उड़ा और ये देखते ही रह गए.'
किसी पर इश्क का बुखार कुछ ज्यादा ही तेज चढ़ जाए (भले ही दोनों एक ही जाति के हों) तो फिर दोनों को अग्निपरीक्षा देने के लिए कहना चाहिए. उन्हें कुछ साल (कम से कम 6-7 साल) के लिए बिना मिले-जुले, बात किए रहने के लिए कहना चाहिए. अगर प्यार असली हुआ तो समय उन दोनों पर कोई फर्क नहीं डाल सकेगा और अगर प्यार केवल शारीरिक आकर्षण हुआ तो वे टूट जाएंगे और या तो घर से भाग जाएंगे या फिर किसी और में दिलचस्पी लेने लगेंगे. यदि वे प्यार की परीक्षा पार कर लेते हैं तो फिर उनकी शादी कर देनी चाहिए और घर-बार बेचकर कहीं और चले जाना चाहिए, साथ ही लड़की को कह देना चाहिए कि आज के बाद हमसे तुम्हारा कोई मतलब नहीं है.
कोई बिना परीक्षा दिए अंतर्जातीय या घरवालों की मर्जी के खिलाफ विवाह करने की सोचे तो फिर उन्हें यथासंभव सबक सिखाया जाना चाहिए. उनसे सब तरह के रिश्ते तो तोड़ ही लेने चाहिए कम से कम.
नोट : ये मेरे निजी विचार हैं. दूसरों के विचार अलग हो सकते हैं.

prashantacmet
December 1st, 2010, 05:44 PM
Love marriage or love at first sight are nothing more than, infatuation and ecstatic sentiments which last only for a few years in most cases. Exceptions are, however, always there. In the prime time of their youth majority of girls/boys simply listen to their hearts and not their brains. After a few year the fever of love withers away and the inherent differences due to cultural and social diversities start cropping up leading to a final goodbye. Therefore, it is always advisable to find suitable match within the same social group/caste which is always long lasting. There is a kind of social bond which protects the marriages within community if the marriage has the consensus of family.
very very TRUE !! I cut last two lines...hahahaa

anusha
December 1st, 2010, 06:03 PM
In my opinion,marriage is itself a gamble whether arranged or luv.So,parents sticking to the belief that gelling in a diff caste with diff culture is a problem doesnt seem to be genuine and proved.How sure are we in an arranged marrg that everything will be rosy just because it is the same caste?In luv marrg,may be we have a hitch over adjusting in a diff caste but the person is very well known.So,it is all upon destiny how successful the marrg is within same caste/diff one.Some intercaste marrgs go very well but some go dead.Infact,if parents support the child in intercaste marrg,the things are easier after marrg that increases the chance of good adjustment.

sewajat
December 1st, 2010, 06:28 PM
In My opnion whether it is love marriage or arrange marriage, in both situation couple should be happy for whole life. If it is failled than whether it luv or arrange both are wrong. If you can manage it and live smoothly than you can choose inter caste marriage also. Bus kush raho raho aur khusiya bato.

Yes I agree life will be very tough in intercaste marriage for next few years and people will also talk things at the time their child marriage also. But if couple is happy and they can manage the things than you can go for intercaste marriage also. But if you are not able to manage it than marriage in same caste is also become hell for you and your family.

Its totally depends on the two person how they handle the things and hou they are behaving with others after marriage.......

vdhillon
December 1st, 2010, 07:35 PM
Independent media is one of the core pillar of a vibrant democratic society. They are doing a good job of bring out the issues that are swept under the carpet in the name of 'culture'.

It is not about education, it is about 'awareness'. Education is an indication of knowledge but NOT the proof of it. Thats why we may have academically educated but socially/issue unaware people. Multi-level awareness for various stakeholders including parents, youngsters, execution mechanism (police, courts, etc), and society at large is needed.

So its about Awareness & empowerment (victims and enforcement people with law) and exemplary enforcement (create an example, strict punishment, strict enforcement, significant deterrent for potential perpetrators).

A society is usually what its members want it to be but it is also true that only select few provide the thought-leadership to the society most are followers. Very few provide reformative thought-leadership and those activists are the one to take the society forward in a progressive manner (as opposed to conservative, orthodox, thought-leaders who would prefer to have those youngsters killed for the intercaste alliances). Lets create positive, reformative, constructive and action-orientated thought leadership that can engage the masses (jats of hinterland), not just elite jats on internet with 'purist' views.

vdhillon
December 1st, 2010, 08:13 PM
Love marriage or love at first sight are nothing more than infatuation and ecstatic sentiments which last only for a few years in most cases. Exceptions are, however, always there. In the prime time of their youth majority of girls/boys simply listen to their hearts and not their brains. After a few year the fever of love withers away and the inherent differences due to cultural and social diversities start cropping up leading to a final goodbye. Therefore, it is always advisable to find suitable match within the same social group/caste which is always long lasting. There is a kind of social bond which protects the marriages within community if the marriage has the consensus of family. Having said that, marital affair is a purely a private matter and others have no right to meddle into the affair of an individual if he/she marries outside caste. Have seen some successful couples also who married out of caste.

I disagree that 'Love At First Sight' and 'Love Marriages' are one and same thing i.e. infatuation and short term ecstatic sentiments. Both are very different constructs. Love marriage does not necessarily equate to 'Love At First Sight'.

In order to investigate further, let use define the love marriage first so that we all can discuss things from a common base albeit with differing views. I am going by the following definition, all other FM (forum members) are encouraged to challenge or debate this definition and we can evolve or modify accordingly at later stages:
Love marriage entails a matrimonial alliance between two consenting adults, with or without the permission of their guardians.

I further propose to expand, yet set constraints around the definition of the love marriage in the specific context of Jat samaj of hinterland India.

Definition of Indian Hinterland Jat Love Marriage:
"A matrimonial alliance, with or without the permission of their guardians and at times wider jat khap society in case of taboo gotra are involved, between two consenting hetrosexual adults of opposing gender of any caste, creed, gotra, race and religion where at least one party belongs to rural or urban Hindu Jat community hailing from historical jat dominated hinterland of contemporary political entity of Republic of India.

Exclusions from the definition: For the sake of simplicity, I have chosen to exclude same sex relationships (not that those do not exist, to be discussed SEPARATELY, for the record Im a pro-gay hetro male), relationships involving jats moved overseas e.g. to a western country. These cases have peculiarity of their own and I suggest to discuss them in separate threads, if anyone is so inclined and if stakeholders of the site (members and mods included) are mature enough and deem it suitable to discuss such taboo subjects.

A recent doctoral level thesis <ref not provided> that studied the survivability of marriages by studying them on a longitudinal basis over multi-year span e.g. at the time of marriage, same couple were surveyed again after 5, 10, 15 and 20, years. The study concluded that survivability of marriage is influenced by few key factors, namely similarities between partners in terms of goals/life-vision/hobbies/shared-values/background, financial stablity, mutual communication and conflict resolution skills, etc. Shared culture is part of shared background hence it contributes to the shared background. But having same culture does not automatically provide sharing shared values, vision of life, hobbies and they more important for the survivability of marriage.

I will differentiate between Caste and culture. Caste does not have impact but culture does, to some extent but not as much as shared goals/vision/hobbies/background.

For example, a jat married to punjabi both hailing form dusty town (say Hansi or Meham) share more in terms of culture as opposed to Hansi-born-and-broughtup jat will ever share with another jat raised in Canberra. "Canberra Jat + Hansi Jat" couple will have less shared background including culture when compared to "Hansi jat + Hansi Punjabi" couple. Thus lesser chances of survivability of marriage.
Caveat: Study was conducted in the context of western cultures.


Interesting. lets take a look at marriage like a 'product life cycle' i.e. each product has a life cycle from design to hay days to obsolete. Another study that comes to mind was about happiness level of couple in marriage. Study found that happiness level is high in first 2 to 3 years and then drops rapidly initially and then slowly, peaking between 7 to 12 years (bulk of divorces happen around this time), this happiness level then gradually starts to pick up and restoring the same level of satisfaction at the time of marriage around 17+years. Those in old age, still married were found to be very satisfied. It is interesting to note why such fluctuation is happiness and mutual satisfaction level of couple from eachother in the marriage.

They are happy initially due to newness of relationship, younger age, lot to explore, less/no responsibility (kids, mortgages, etc).

It drops rapid when newness wears off, added responsibility of kids and mortgages, pressure from career (most are also in process of building their career, trying to move into mid level management, etc), less time for each other, higher stress levels, etc. Couples fight lot more around this time, differences becomes more prominent and tolerance reduces greatly and majority divorces happen around this time.

Then it starts to pick up again, its mainly because most couples have learn to deal with (even after adjusting for other variables e.g. career, financial conditions, responsibilities) each others idiosyncrasies for 3 key reasons (a) diff no longer exist and have found happy middle ground, (b) stopped caring about the diff and accepted the status quo and are at peace with status quo, (c) have enhanced communication skills, still have diff but communicate more and resolve better on case by case basis.

Taking a wholistic view of marriage within not just the caste but cultural context coupled with financial, personal and shared background is the key to better survivability. This is easier to understand when we accept that all marriages go through fluctuation over the life time, some of which can be generalized i.e. those who do not divorce even unhappy eventually become happy in the marriage as they find equilibrium with time.

सो बात की इक बात, अच्छी बुरी साब के गैल हो से,
खुद का खांदे हो, पैरां पे खड़े हो, तोह आपनी मर्जी की करो,
अगर माँ बाप घर परिवार आर समाज (not necessarily jat samaj but where you will live e.g. a western country) ने राजी कर के कर सकते हो तोह और भी अच्छी,

vdhillon
December 1st, 2010, 08:34 PM
@Riyya: I will attempt to address your original question directly. I am assuming you raised this, not merely as a topic for discussion, but to seek suggestion related to a specific problem faced by one of your close 'friend' :) If so, then please provide more info about the context while withholding the info that may identify them or their families as it is good to preserve their privacy. Info regarding their age group, educational level, career and financial standing (couple) and kind of support and resistance encountered by them.

In general, rebellion for the sake of rebellion, running away from home, etc wont be a solution, specially if the couple if not yet adult, have not yet completed their intended education, not yet financially self-sufficient. Otherwise agar mia-biwi raaji toh kya karega budha kaazi. Awaiting more specific info, in order to provide more specific advise. God bless you my dear.

Cheers!
Vishal

atamjeet78
December 2nd, 2010, 06:43 AM
In my opinion.
There are two sets of people here.
First one is of age group 17-21 who are in school or colleges. Instead of paying attention to their education and building up a good career for themselves, there(mostly boys) is ladki pataani hai..if they succeed they wanted to become laila majnu of this age. They are unable to see the future, what are they foing to do without education or without job what are they going to feed to their spouse
. Movies or TV ne inka dimaag kharab kar rakha sai .. They don’t understand there is life after marriage too…there only aim is elope and get married, take police protection thinking everything will be fine after that…police roti nahi kuhavaegi vo to khood hi kama ke khani padegiii…
These are the ones who run from home and I have no sympathy for them. Their parents strongly object their marriage and they should b’cos they are feeding one nikhattu already they have to feed one more or jai eek do saal me balaak hoge to unko bhi paalo.
For them my advice is first be something be able to take care of yourself and your future family financially first and than think about marriage.
Marriagble age for girls should be 21 also.
The second group is 25 and above in job or financially stable, if this fellow choose to go for love marriage he will find least opposition unless his family has already fixed his marriage.
These people are mature enough to understand what marriage is and there are lot of example we will find within society of these marriages in last decade.
As already mentioned by members same cultural background bring more stability to marriage.

singhvp
December 2nd, 2010, 07:42 AM
Originally posted by vdhillon

सो बात की इक बात, अच्छी बुरी साब के गैल हो से,
खुद का खांदे हो, पैरां पे खड़े हो, तोह आपनी मर्जी की करो,
अगर माँ बाप घर परिवार आर समाज (not necessarily jat samaj but where you will live e.g. a western country) ने राजी कर के कर सकते हो तोह और भी अच्छी, This is essence of the whole issue. Ideally there should be a consensus of all the stake-holders for a marriage to be enjoyable and sustainable. In striking contrast to the western society, ours is more of a commune-based society with many stake-holders (close & remote/direct & indirect) viz. parents, brothers, sisters, mama, fufa etc. So their wishes also cannot be out-rightly rejected if we acknowledge and respect our relationship with them. The factor of commonality in shared values, customs, dialect, food habits, and social network is one of the important factors which helps maintaining marital harmony with effortless ease. As marriage is an alliance between two (heterosexual) adults, their own sentiments, likes/dislikes and mutual attraction are, of course, the most important factors in this relationship. If financially boys and girls of marriageable age are sound enough, staying outside the ambit of community in a remote place, they can enjoy more freedom in choosing their life partners without getting influenced by their families/society, irrespective of caste. The elders/outsiders have to play an advisory role in such matters as their moral duty. If the boy/girl do not find the advice worth, let them loose to fend for themselves and bear the consequences. Inter-caste marriages are getting acceptability and recognition in Jat community also -albeit at a very slow pace. But the caste barriers, which is a sick reality, will remain for generations come and; so will remain the taboo of inter-caste marriages walking along side by side. No more honour killings please.

Shibani
December 2nd, 2010, 10:46 AM
Hi Riyaa,
Marrige is not between a boy and girl but between two families therefore everyone's consensus is an epicentre to a happy wedding. By everyone I mean parents and siblings not the exteneded family. You can never satisfy everyone therefore dont even try.

Jo kaam bado ki blessings se kiya jata hain woh hamesha successful hota hain. Dont think I am some old school women............... I am 30 and have very progressive outlook towards life. All this advice is coming from my own personal experience....PM me and I wil be able to give you more insight.

I agree with Vijay ji once again.

Also on another note if u feel that this is what you want....please create an enviornemnt at home where constructive discussion can take place..............Maybe get MY BIG FAT GREEK WEDDING movie and watch it with mum and then just take her view and go from there;)

prashantacmet
December 2nd, 2010, 11:00 AM
As marriage is an alliance between two (heterosexual) adults, their own sentiments, likes/dislikes and mutual attraction are, of course, the most important factors in this relationship..
It is not only hetrosexual but homosexual too. Why should not we deal with it? Is it embarrassing?

Shibani
December 2nd, 2010, 11:38 AM
[QUOTE=prashantacmet;256723]It is not only hetrosexual but homosexual too. Why should not we deal with it? Is it embarrassing?[/QU


Definately not embarrassing..... I reckon its about time that this issue is brought out in light and discusssed at length.....sensisble discussions should always be encouraged

singhvp
December 2nd, 2010, 12:17 PM
It is not only hetrosexual but homosexual too. Why should not we deal with it? Is it embarrassing?

It will be off-topic, I think. Moreover, marriage of 'perverts' does not have any social or legal recognition in India so far.

Shibani
December 2nd, 2010, 12:37 PM
It will be off-topic, I think. Moreover, marriage of 'perverts' does not have any social or legal recognition in India so far.

Vijay Ji.............'Perverts' is not the right term in my view....once again this is a change happening pretty much everywhere in the world....its a new reality in human relations all over the world....infact homosexuals have always been there but behind closed doors and now they are coming out

prashantacmet
December 2nd, 2010, 12:59 PM
Vijay Ji.............'Perverts' is not the right term in my view....once again this is a change happening pretty much everywhere in the world....its a new reality in human relations all over the world....infact homosexuals have always been there but behind closed doors and now they are coming out
Right..few days before thousands of homosexuals clubbed in Delhi and marched a rally. So after "inter caste marriages" and "same gotra marriages", homo marriages will be reality in India very soon. Such cases have happened earlier too in India but very less in numbers. Let us see how the law and order of this democratic setup and Indian social system deal with Homo marriages ..:)
and my questions to all Jatlanders who can bear "inter caste marriages and same gotra marriages" and talk about "love" "individual choice" etc. are they ready for homosexual marriages too? so let us see How much sophisticated you are and how much you can deal with the evolution and plz while writing the answer put yourself in the shoes of other families whom son/daughter went for revolt and became a homo............

vikasJAT
December 2nd, 2010, 02:16 PM
Bhai thik kah se rey jma..

Pahlam to chori ne nyu kaho "uren aa ek ber!"

Vikas :"tera naa ke se?"

Ladki : "XXXXX"

Vikas:" Pura naa bta, sudha goth"

Ldki : "XXXX YYYY"

Vikas : "Teri maa ka ke goth se?"

Ladki : "ZZZZZ"

Vikas : "er teri dadi ka??"

Ladki : "Tu ye sari baat kya te bujhe se?"

Vikas :"Btawe bhi gi ek ber!"

Ladki : "AAAA"

Vikas : "oho, yu dadi ka aan bidhya goth! Chaalla paat gya! Chokha tane bta di, na to tere te pyaar karen ne ho rhya tha main to!"





PS : You can't think before loving someone. It's a human tendency!


hahahhahahaahhahahaha Deepak bhai tane to kasuta chala pad diya bhai.............
main bhi sochu k mere dil ki baat aade kis ne likh di.........
hahhahahahahhahahhaha

Main Topic: Bhai jo ek baar dekhte he pyar ho jye vo pyar ni just attraction hota hai jo jyda din ni rehta,,,,,,,,
ye love tab hota hai jab aap kisi ko ache se jano, uski qualities aapko pata ho, baat karte karte muh se kitni bhi jhooth bolo sach nikal he jata hai, isliye dekhte he pyar ni hota.
pehle to normal baat hoti hai baad me ye caste or gotra ki baat hoti hai jab aapko lege ki vo aapke acc. aur family k acc. thek hai ya ni.


Bhai agar koi jaat kisi chamari te shadi kar laya to bhai kitni b koshish kare vo chamari kuch to isa kregi ki bera pat ja ki chamari se.............
ek caste me shadi karo to acha hai..... balance bana rehta hai aur logo ko chance b ni milta baat marne ka...........

KUCH GALAT KAHA HO TO BHAI PLZ SAHI AAP SABHI BATA DENA.............

vikasJAT
December 2nd, 2010, 02:31 PM
Right..few days before thousands of homosexuals clubbed in Delhi and marched a rally. So after "inter caste marriages" and "same gotra marriages", homo marriages will be reality in India very soon. Such cases have happened earlier too in India but very less in numbers. Let us see how the law and order of this democratic setup and Indian social system deal with Homo marriages ..:)
and my questions to all Jatlanders who can bear "inter caste marriages and same gotra marriages" and talk about "love" "individual choice" etc. are they ready for homosexual marriages too? so let us see How much sophisticated you are and how much you can deal with the evolution and plz while writing the answer put yourself in the shoes of other families whom son/daughter went for revolt and became a homo............

Bhai yaha homo marriage aur hetrosexual marriage ki baat shuru karke main topic se dhyan mat hatao..........
kal ne ye mat bolna ki aur jagah homosexual marriage hoti hain to apne haryana aur u.p me bhi honi chahiye........

ye same gotra marriage kuch states me hoti hain main b manta hoon.......lekin iska ye b matlab ni ki jo waha ho vo apne yaha bhi shure hona chahiye.........
BHAI ACHI BAAT NA SIKHTE TO KAM SE KAM BHUNDI BHUNDI BAAT B NA SIKHO........

Punjab aur south side me ye gotra ka koi problem ni hota.... lekin apne yaha apna, maa ka aur dadi ka gotra match karte hain............ mere according ye system thek hai, hona bhi chahiye.

YE HOMOSEXUAL MARRIAGE TOPIC PER BAAT KARNE K LIYE NEW THREAD START KARO JISME GIRLS KI ENTRY NA HO, FIR AAPNE BADIYA BADIYA EXPLAINATION BOT MILENGE AUR AAP KHUD BOLOGE KI BAHI BAAT GHANI BADGI ISLIYE YE MARRIAGE NI HONI CHAHIYE...........:rock


Bhai main kisi ko personally ni bol raha lekin jo sach hai bata raha hoon......koi ko bura lage to plz thoda kam he bura maan na jyda ni..........
lekin is way me bhi soch k dekhna....kyuki india ki ye badkismati hai ki log sahi der se catch karte hain aur buri baat jaldy catch karte hain........:o

vikasJAT
December 2nd, 2010, 02:40 PM
Vikas ji,
je milte hi itne sawal boojhooge to choori nu kahwegi ibbe te court sa shuru kar diya...............ibbe yeh haal se bera na aagge ke ke boojega...choori bolegi bhai manne to aur bhatare mil ja ge.....tu apna court kite aur chala le.....maane baksh de;) ;) ;)

hahhahahaahhahahhha sahi kahi aapne bhi.......... jaruri na hain ek sath itne question puchne.........bus baat baato me puch lo dheere dheere.........usi se pata lag jata hai....
ye thodi hota hai ki raste me jati chorri ne pakad k puchna suru kar di ki k naam, k maa ka gotra, k dadi ka gotra.......... simple baat karo aur dheere dheere pucho......
isliye to bol raha hoon jo ek bar dekhte he pyar ho jye vo pyar ni just opp. sex attraction hai......

vikasJAT
December 2nd, 2010, 02:44 PM
tanee rachondaa aamtaa deekhe vikas bhai.......main nu kad kahi ek falana hona chaiye ar dhimkana nahi hona chaiye... bhai aapne deedo main mameera ger ke ek bai aur padh liye

bhai kam te kam words to padhan joge likh diya kar............. dakki apni isi bhasha likhe hai janu koi new version generate kara se............hahhahahhahahhha

prashantacmet
December 2nd, 2010, 02:47 PM
bhai kam te kam words to padhan joge likh diya kar............. dakki apni isi bhasha likhe hai janu koi new version generate kara se............hahhahahhahahhha
Hahhaha...simajh main koni aayi..badhiya hua ...............

vdhillon
December 2nd, 2010, 03:05 PM
ATTENTION ALL: Pls discuss hetro marriages only.

There are separate new threads for

Gays and Lesbians and GBLT http://www.jatland.com/forums/showth...740#post256740

Same Gotra http://www.jatland.com/forums/showth...744#post256744

Honor Killing http://www.jatland.com/forums/newthr...=newthread&f=7

vikasJAT
December 2nd, 2010, 03:15 PM
Vikas ek baat ka sach sach jawaab de!
"Tujhe kabhi kisi se pyaar hua hai?"

Dil se jawab diyo bhai, dimag se nahi!


hahhahahhahahhahahaha
ye social network site hai bhai..yaha personal matters discuss ni karte......
life me pyar har kisi ko ek ne ek baar ho he jata hai...... kisi ko jaldy uski pasand mil jati hai to kisi ko wait karna padta hai bahi......ab ye mat puchna ki mujhe mil gayi ya wait kar raha hoon......hahahhaahahhahha
mere maximum friends ne love marriage ki hai lekin same caste me
mere kuch friends south k hain aur kuch punjab side k....main 5 years punjab me raha hoon, 3 years west bangal me aur ab chennai me hoon..... isliye unke side me marriage rules thode bahut main b janta hoon....... us base pe kuch threads k reply diye hain.

singhvp
December 2nd, 2010, 03:17 PM
Vijay Ji.............'Perverts' is not the right term in my view....once again this is a change happening pretty much everywhere in the world....its a new reality in human relations all over the world....infact homosexuals have always been there but behind closed doors and now they are coming out

Shibani ji, in my terminology it is nothing but a perversion. The possibility of existence of such unnatural practices behind doors in the past is not ruled out but that does not justify continuation of such unnatural and bestial tendencies for ever. With evolution of civilization, we should be moving towards healthier and more civilized behavior. Only marital alliance between sane and heterosexual partners as ordained by nature should be acceptable by the society and the law of the land. What people are doing behind the curtains, should not be allowed to be exhibited in public domain as a matter of right in pursuit of show-casing metro sexual image by a few ultras

vdhillon
December 2nd, 2010, 03:26 PM
ATTENTION ALL: LETS BRING THE TOPIC BACK ON TRACK


A. SEPARATE GAY GBLT Thread - discuss there
WHY NOT DISCUSS GAY: ALL REFER TO MY POST #17
Let us keep the discussion strictly to hetro marriages to keep things simple. However, thanks to all who challenged why not discuss gay and taboo subjects. I have created a separate thread for Same-sex relationships http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?30853-Taboo-Topic-Same-sex-relationships-in-Jats.&p=256740#post256740

B. Same Gotra Thread - discuss here
http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?30854-Taboo-Topic-Same-Gotra-Marriages-in-Jats&p=256744#post256744

C. Honor Killing - discuss here
http://www.jatland.com/forums/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=7

Now please, continue discussing along the lines of post #17.

malikdeepak1
December 2nd, 2010, 03:41 PM
I will explain you with one simple scenario :

Suppose tu college me hai bhai. Your first day.. Tune ek ladki dekhi apni class me. Dekhne me sunder, chehre pe innocence, height bhi thik thak, suit salwar me hai. (You don't know her nature till now). Class me intro hua tujhe uska poora naam bhi pta chal gya. Tera sirname er uska sirname match nahi hua. Wa jaata ki bhi se. Tu raji hoya. Tane wa pasand aayi(pyar me or pasand me farak hai). Lab lagi, wo tere batch me aa gayi. Tu or bhi raji hoya. Tane uste baat karni shuru kari. 2-4 din tane baat kari uste. Uska nature tane badhiya laagya. Tu dheere dheere or attract hoya uski traf (still not love). Tane uska number bhi le liya eeb. Thare msg shuru hoge apas me. Shuru me baat kari "falani file bana li" "dhakdi assignment bana li" "makde ke test ki tayari kar li". She also replies in same vein. Thari baat or faltu hon laagi.. class me katthe baithan laag ge. Tnae wa or badhiya laagen laag gi --> your heart now starts beating for her. usko dekhte hi tere dil ki dhadkan tej hone lag jati hai. wo pass ati hai to dil me ek halki si sursuri hoti hia. If you touch her you feel sensations running all through your body (Kayi to shauk shauk me khoye marte chaalya kare choriya ke, m not talking about those guys here)

Fer tumne phone pe baat shuru kar di. Tane uski sari baat badhiya lage. wa kyukar bole se, kyukar lakhaawe se, kyukar baal bhawe se, kise latte pahre se, kisi baat kare se, caring kitni hai..tere sab janchya uska.

Tera jee karenn laag gya ak tu uste ghane te ghani baat kare. khoob time uske sath lagawe, tera roti khaan ne bhi ghaat jee kare. sove jib wa yaad aave, uthe jib wa yaad aave. Shingar karke tu college me jave ak usne suthra laagu mai. Apne sare aeb lako leve uste baat karti haan..Why??

Becoz now you are in LOVE with that girl and you don't want her to feel bad becoz of you!

You did all these things becoz your heart said all these things to you.

Did i miss somewhere that you din ask her mother's and grandmother's sirname?? I think you missed out this while doing shingar-patti and making yourself a good person in her eyes.

Big question --> What if now one of the sirname matches?? Its a totally different topic to discuss.

All I wanted to make you feel was that love happens just like that. You can't think and love. If you are thinking in your mind if to love this girl or not, then you are not into love.










PS : Ye mere apne vichar hai pyaar ke bare me. aapke vichar bhinn ho sakte hai!

malikdeepak1
December 2nd, 2010, 03:54 PM
Kasuta experiance le rya hai daaki PYAR ka te tu......JL k Love guru:cool:

Baaki......jis te love howe us gel biyah karna jaroori sai k???:eek:

Bhai re akshay, tere jise bhaiya ki gel rah ke dekh rakhya se yu sab kime. koi guru-garu nahi se bhai.. Yu Vikas mada sa samjhna chave tha uste samjhayi si seedhe paadhri baat me. Angreji me likhu hai to iske palle na pade hai suthri dhaal..


Er byah to kismat pe se bhai. Its all destiny. Jiski gel likh rakhya se use ki gel hovega. :)

malikdeepak1
December 2nd, 2010, 04:22 PM
Na na, aapa nahi pade kade in chakkra me. Jindagi ke jhandu balm laag jya se jma.
Appa to ganda paadya kare er khet te bahar likad jaya kare! :rock


Mane te Vikas bhai tayi likhi thi ya kahani, mkha bhai ke suthri dhaal samjh me aa jaga ke pyar karti haana dimag nahi chalya kare. Real love never listens to your mind. It goes by heart only. Haa ye jo sirname vgarah ki baat hai ya pyaar hoye ke kafi time piche dimag me badya kare. When you start feeling for someone these things are put in a line outside your mind witha No-Entry board facing them. In baato ke bare me khyaal baad me hi aata hai.

singhvp
December 2nd, 2010, 06:42 PM
vikas pahle ek suthri si chori tohwega fer uska got poochega ........... maa ka , dadi ka fer je sab theek thak pa gaya te yu sochega iste e pyar karna hai eb ar fer hogi iski love marriage hahhahahhahahhaha sahi proceedure hai.....:p:p
नाते रिश्ते देख भाल के, गोत नात बूझ के आर पूरा interview ले के ही करने चाहिए I प्यार व्यार तो न्युए होता रहवै सै बेरा ना कितनी बार होज्या जिंदगी मैं. पर ब्याह आदमी नै एक बार ही करना चाहिए ठोक-बजा के आर फेर उसको हर कीमत पर निभाना चाहिए.
लड़कों का तो पता नहीं पर लड़कियों को प्यार अमूमन लड़के के looks और उसकी वित्तीय (financial ) स्थिति से होता है ना की उसकी पारिवारिक पृष्ठभूमि (background ) और उसके संस्कारों से. पैसे के बल पर ना जाने कितने छिछोरे भले घरों की सुन्दर लड़कियों को अपने प्रेमजाल में फंसiने में कामयाब हो जाते हैं और जिंदगी के किसे अँधेरे मोड़ पर dump करके नयी दुनिया की चकाचौंध में नए जीवन साथी के पहलू में रंगरलियाँ मनाते हैं. दूसरी शादी नहीं भी करें तो extra-marital affairs का चलन काफी तेजी से बढ़ रहा है. पर जब तक ये सारी बातें उजागर होती हैं तब तक देर हो चुकी होती है. इसलिए सभी युवा युवतियों को परिवार के बड़ों की सलाह का यथा संभव सम्मान करना चाहिए ब्याह शादी के मामलों में, और अपने तर्क वितर्क से उनको अपनी पसंद पर राज़ी कर लेना चाहिए खास कर अगर आप अंतरजातीय विवाह रचाने जा रहे हों तो. love तो शादी के बाद भी generate किया जा सकै सै.

ब्याह चाहे किसे जात मैं कर लियो पर जांच पड़ताल इन डोगे आल्याँ तैं जरूर करवा लियो कती भीतर की काढ ल्यावेंगे.

PS : विकास तो बूझ के ही करैगा घर आल्याँ नै.

vdhillon
December 2nd, 2010, 07:23 PM
नाते रिश्ते देख भाल के, गोत नात बूझ के आर पूरा interview ले के ही करने चाहिए I प्यार व्यार तो न्युए होता रहवै सै बेरा ना कितनी बार होज्या जिंदगी मैं. पर ब्याह आदमी नै एक बार ही करना चाहिए ठोक-बजा के आर फेर उसको हर कीमत पर निभाना चाहिए.
लड़कों का तो पता नहीं पर लड़कियों को प्यार अमूमन लड़के के looks और उसकी वित्तीय (financial ) स्थिति से होता है ना की उसकी पारिवारिक पृष्ठभूमि (background ) और उसके संस्कारों से. पैसे के बल पर ना जाने कितने छिछोरे भले घरों की सुन्दर लड़कियों को अपने प्रेमजाल में फंसiने में कामयाब हो जाते हैं और जिंदगी के किसे अँधेरे मोड़ पर dump करके नयी दुनिया की चकाचौंध में नए जीवन साथी के पहलू में रंगरलियाँ मनाते हैं. दूसरी शादी नहीं भी करें तो extra-marital affairs का चलन काफी तेजी से बढ़ रहा है. पर जब तक ये सारी बातें उजागर होती हैं तब तक देर हो चुकी होती है. इसलिए सभी युवा युवतियों को परिवार के बड़ों की सलाह का यथा संभव सम्मान करना चाहिए ब्याह शादी के मामलों में, और अपने तर्क वितर्क से उनको अपनी पसंद पर राज़ी कर लेना चाहिए खास कर अगर आप अंतरजातीय विवाह रचाने जा रहे हों तो. love तो शादी के बाद भी generate किया जा सकै सै.

ब्याह चाहे किसे जात मैं कर लियो पर जांच पड़ताल इन डोगे आल्याँ तैं जरूर करवा लियो कती भीतर की काढ ल्यावेंगे.

PS : विकास तो बूझ के ही करैगा घर आल्याँ नै.

VPSingh ji, i usually agree with bulk of the views you write, so I no longer write about things I agree with. You usually present a progressive yet pragmatic view point from various perspective, I have immense respect for your views, not only because of the friendship we have come to share in a short span of time, but mianly because of good analysis. So I will no onger do the formality of highlighting things i agree with (too numerous), I will just write where i disagree or have things to add or am additional perspective.

why should it be a taboo to be divorced (sustaining a bad abusive relationship at all costs, living to show to duniya (jhoota dikhawa) vs for own happiness, wonder how many will come to pay bills when you need money) or pre-marital sex (its part of growing up) or virginity (who cares, how doe sit matter, isnt it an outdated MCP attitude, if ever I have a daughter i cant expect her not to hv pre-marital sex or cant expect daughter-in-law to not have had a bf before my son, etc)

I agree if we can take families, wider society with us then challenges and risks in relationship are reduced with the wider support network and reduced negative pressure. Personally, I will try to learn from others mistake, take their advice yet take my own risks and carve my own path and if it means going down the least trodden path, so be it and I will be happy to face the music, good or bad. I would like to live my own life rather than emulate someone else's and I will do so by trying to free myself from unnecessary jhooti dikhawa, taboos, biases, dogmas - my 2cents worth :)

singhvp
December 2nd, 2010, 07:46 PM
Bhai simple baat hai pyar karne se pehle he dekh lo ki apni caste ki hai ya ni......
apni caste ki ho to love karo aur na ho to mat karo..........

Bolte hain ki PYAR ANDHA HOTA HAI......... per bhai itna bhi andha na hota ki kuch bhi na dikhe.......
Pyar karne se pehle apni caste, ghar walo ki conditions ka pata karo ki match hoti hain ya ni........ aise karoge to koi problem he ni aani...........

भाई विकास ठीक कह रह्या सै love भी सोच समझ के, सारा अता-पता काढ के, जात आर गोत-नात बूझ के करना चाहिए I न्यूं थोड़े करना चाहिए के किसे नै दिल दे बैठो I न्यूं तो माणस का भुरभुरा स्वभाव हो सै बेरा न कितनी बार प्यार होज्या. (आर असल जिंदगी में सब को कई कई बार प्यार होता भी है पर कबूलता कोई नहीं). थोडा मन पर control भी तो करना चाहिए और प्यार उस तै करना चाहिए जिस गैल ब्याह का सूत सा बैठता दीखे.

singhvp
December 2nd, 2010, 08:51 PM
VPSingh ji, i usually agree with bulk of the views you write, so I no longer write about things I agree with. You usually present a progressive yet pragmatic view point from various perspective, I have immense respect for your views, not only because of the friendship we have come to share in a short span of time, but mianly because of good analysis. So I will no onger do the formality of highlighting things i agree with (too numerous), I will just write where i disagree or have things to add or am additional perspective.

why should it be a taboo to be divorced (sustaining a bad abusive relationship at all costs, living to show to duniya (jhoota dikhawa) vs for own happiness, wonder how many will come to pay bills when you need money) or pre-marital sex (its part of growing up) or virginity (who cares, how doe sit matter, isnt it an outdated MCP attitude, if ever I have a daughter i cant expect her not to hv pre-marital sex or cant expect daughter-in-law to not have had a bf before my son, etc)

I agree if we can take families, wider society with us then challenges and risks in relationship are reduced with the wider support network and reduced negative pressure. Personally, I will try to learn from others mistake, take their advice yet take my own risks and carve my own path and if it means going down the least trodden path, so be it and I will be happy to face the music, good or bad. I would like to live my own life rather than emulate someone else's and I will do so by trying to free myself from unnecessary jhooti dikhawa, taboos, biases, dogmas - my 2cents worth :)
Vishal, my advocacy for marriages within caste may sound a little conservative, but casteism is a sick reality of our society and that is the raison d’etre of our being here on this site. The very fact that even highly educated people like you, exposed to the cosmopolitan culture, lavish life-style, living abroad with all material comforts around, rubbing shoulders with bigwigs of the corporate world cannot control the intrinsic urge of socializing with the people of their own clan/caste, substantiates our innate caste bias ingrained deep in our sub-conscious. However, it is neither immoral nor against social mores to marry outside caste but the abysmally low success rate of inter-caste marriages and the disguised hostility of indirect stakeholders as well as the clansmen with medieval mind-set are major irritants. This is not to say that all inter-caste marriages are a flop show and all intra-caste marriages are failure-proof.

Another important dimension which needs to be flagged in this analysis is that for men-folk or boys for that matter, these adventures may be a cake-walk but, in a caste ridden society like ours, the sailing for girls marrying in lower caste is not smooth.

Those who are financially sound and can afford to restrict their interaction with the extended family/clansmen are less prone to the criticism and sarcasm borne out of inter-caste marriages. But the people who are living in villages cannot afford to give the luxury of such alliances to their sons and daughters. Especially, in case of daughters no parent would like to militate against the dictates of extended family or khaps. In theory it sounds logical and scientific but in practice very difficult in face of all heavy odds caused by caste barriers and the present level of consciousness prevailing in our community. I am not a hardcore votary of any school of casteism but we cannot wish this sick reality away, at least in our life time.

sunitahooda
December 2nd, 2010, 09:39 PM
VP Ji....ye dekhna-bhalna kitne time tak chalna chahiye....whats the time span to make sure that "NOTHING" literally nothing will go wrong as a good time has been spent in analyzing and to make a good match? Is it GURANTEED to go on for ever for a life time? Kya DOGA BRIGADE ke karwaye huay rishtey sarey safal hotey aaye hain?

What i strongly disagree to"ब्याह आदमी नै एक बार ही करना चाहिए ठोक-बजा के आर फेर उसको हर कीमत पर निभाना चाहिए" yani usko har keemat pe nibhao JUST to show that it was a GOOD decision made by DOGA BRIGADE? However suffocating THAT wrong marriage might be? But one has to LIVE a DEAD relationship with a BROAD SMILE on face just to SHOW others BUT to cheat OWN SELF? How hypocritical that would be?

Rest everything is just explained in a superb way....as if read my mind :)
नाते रिश्ते देख भाल के, गोत नात बूझ के आर पूरा interview ले के ही करने चाहिए I प्यार व्यार तो न्युए होता रहवै सै बेरा ना कितनी बार होज्या जिंदगी मैं. पर ब्याह आदमी नै एक बार ही करना चाहिए ठोक-बजा के आर फेर उसको हर कीमत पर निभाना चाहिए"

लड़कों का तो पता नहीं पर लड़कियों को प्यार अमूमन लड़के के looks और उसकी वित्तीय (financial ) स्थिति से होता है ना की उसकी पारिवारिक पृष्ठभूमि (background ) और उसके संस्कारों से. पैसे के बल पर ना जाने कितने छिछोरे भले घरों की सुन्दर लड़कियों को अपने प्रेमजाल में फंसiने में कामयाब हो जाते हैं और जिंदगी के किसे अँधेरे मोड़ पर dump करके नयी दुनिया की चकाचौंध में नए जीवन साथी के पहलू में रंगरलियाँ मनाते हैं. दूसरी शादी नहीं भी करें तो extra-marital affairs का चलन काफी तेजी से बढ़ रहा है. पर जब तक ये सारी बातें उजागर होती हैं तब तक देर हो चुकी होती है. इसलिए सभी युवा युवतियों को परिवार के बड़ों की सलाह का यथा संभव सम्मान करना चाहिए ब्याह शादी के मामलों में, और अपने तर्क वितर्क से उनको अपनी पसंद पर राज़ी कर लेना चाहिए खास कर अगर आप अंतरजातीय विवाह रचाने जा रहे हों तो. love तो शादी के बाद भी generate किया जा सकै सै.

ब्याह चाहे किसे जात मैं कर लियो पर जांच पड़ताल इन डोगे आल्याँ तैं जरूर करवा लियो कती भीतर की काढ ल्यावेंगे.

PS : विकास तो बूझ के ही करैगा घर आल्याँ नै.

sunitahooda
December 2nd, 2010, 09:51 PM
आड़े एक बात समझ मै ना आयी " के प्यार होना जरुरी है? या प्यार करना जरुरी है?" इससे करड़े हो कै मंड रे हैं जणू तो कोए रोज़मर्रा की दिनचर्या का एक हिस्सा है या रिवाज़ है अक्क जुकर यो तजुर्बा न होया तो जीना बेकार है ....अर्र जितना देमागी दाव-पेंच लगा कै जै किसे नै "दिल" दे भी दिया अर्र सूत सा न बैठ्या तो के यो दिल उल्टा मांगन का कोए जुगाड़ नहीं बता दयो .... पर आप नै तो पहलया कह दिया अक्क ब्याह हो जा क्युकरे तो मरर-खप कै बी निभाना जरुरी है

अपनी जात मै ब्याहे होड़ा के घने भुंडे हाल होते देखे हैं मन्ने

P.S.- I strongly advocate MARRIAGE IN SAME CASTE :) but believe in giving l'il respect to others choice n way of life
भाई विकास ठीक कह रह्या सै love भी सोच समझ के, सारा अता-पता काढ के, जात आर गोत-नात बूझ के करना चाहिए I न्यूं थोड़े करना चाहिए के किसे नै दिल दे बैठो I न्यूं तो माणस का भुरभुरा स्वभाव हो सै बेरा न कितनी बार प्यार होज्या. (आर असल जिंदगी में सब को कई कई बार प्यार होता भी है पर कबूलता कोई नहीं). थोडा मन पर control भी तो करना चाहिए और प्यार उस तै करना चाहिए जिस गैल ब्याह का सूत सा बैठता दीखे.

ravinderjeet
December 2nd, 2010, 10:10 PM
नाते रिश्ते देख भाल के, गोत नात बूझ के आर पूरा interview ले के ही करने चाहिए I प्यार व्यार तो न्युए होता रहवै सै बेरा ना कितनी बार होज्या जिंदगी मैं. पर ब्याह आदमी नै एक बार ही करना चाहिए ठोक-बजा के आर फेर उसको हर कीमत पर निभाना चाहिए.
लड़कों का तो पता नहीं पर लड़कियों को प्यार अमूमन लड़के के looks और उसकी वित्तीय (financial ) स्थिति से होता है ना की उसकी पारिवारिक पृष्ठभूमि (background ) और उसके संस्कारों से. पैसे के बल पर ना जाने कितने छिछोरे भले घरों की सुन्दर लड़कियों को अपने प्रेमजाल में फंसiने में कामयाब हो जाते हैं और जिंदगी के किसे अँधेरे मोड़ पर dump करके नयी दुनिया की चकाचौंध में नए जीवन साथी के पहलू में रंगरलियाँ मनाते हैं. दूसरी शादी नहीं भी करें तो extra-marital affairs का चलन काफी तेजी से बढ़ रहा है. पर जब तक ये सारी बातें उजागर होती हैं तब तक देर हो चुकी होती है. इसलिए सभी युवा युवतियों को परिवार के बड़ों की सलाह का यथा संभव सम्मान करना चाहिए ब्याह शादी के मामलों में, और अपने तर्क वितर्क से उनको अपनी पसंद पर राज़ी कर लेना चाहिए खास कर अगर आप अंतरजातीय विवाह रचाने जा रहे हों तो. love तो शादी के बाद भी generate किया जा सकै सै.

ब्याह चाहे किसे जात मैं कर लियो पर जांच पड़ताल इन डोगे आल्याँ तैं जरूर करवा लियो कती भीतर की काढ ल्यावेंगे.

PS : विकास तो बूझ के ही करैगा घर आल्याँ नै.

mey aapki bahot hi kam post par sahmat hotaa hoon,aur jab bhi manney issaa laagyaa aapkaa samarthan karyaa s.100% sahi.

ravinderjeet
December 2nd, 2010, 10:13 PM
hahhahahhahahhahahaha
ye social network site hai bhai..yaha personal matters discuss ni karte......
life me pyar har kisi ko ek ne ek baar ho he jata hai...... kisi ko jaldy uski pasand mil jati hai to kisi ko wait karna padta hai bahi......ab ye mat puchna ki mujhe mil gayi ya wait kar raha hoon......hahahhaahahhahha
mere maximum friends ne love marriage ki hai lekin same caste me
mere kuch friends south k hain aur kuch punjab side k....main 5 years punjab me raha hoon, 3 years west bangal me aur ab chennai me hoon..... isliye unke side me marriage rules thode bahut main b janta hoon....... us base pe kuch threads k reply diye hain.

haan ebb teri umar likadan laagri s .er deepak bargyaan ke chadhaaney me aagyaa to madraas ki jhulsi hoyi kaali layaawegaa.

ravinderjeet
December 2nd, 2010, 10:20 PM
I will explain you with one simple scenario :

Suppose tu college me hai bhai. Your first day.. Tune ek ladki dekhi apni class me. Dekhne me sunder, chehre pe innocence, height bhi thik thak, suit salwar me hai. (You don't know her nature till now). Class me intro hua tujhe uska poora naam bhi pta chal gya. Tera sirname er uska sirname match nahi hua. Wa jaata ki bhi se. Tu raji hoya. Tane wa pasand aayi(pyar me or pasand me farak hai). Lab lagi, wo tere batch me aa gayi. Tu or bhi raji hoya. Tane uste baat karni shuru kari. 2-4 din tane baat kari uste. Uska nature tane badhiya laagya. Tu dheere dheere or attract hoya uski traf (still not love). Tane uska number bhi le liya eeb. Thare msg shuru hoge apas me. Shuru me baat kari "falani file bana li" "dhakdi assignment bana li" "makde ke test ki tayari kar li". She also replies in same vein. Thari baat or faltu hon laagi.. class me katthe baithan laag ge. Tnae wa or badhiya laagen laag gi --> your heart now starts beating for her. usko dekhte hi tere dil ki dhadkan tej hone lag jati hai. wo pass ati hai to dil me ek halki si sursuri hoti hia. If you touch her you feel sensations running all through your body (Kayi to shauk shauk me khoye marte chaalya kare choriya ke, m not talking about those guys here)

Fer tumne phone pe baat shuru kar di. Tane uski sari baat badhiya lage. wa kyukar bole se, kyukar lakhaawe se, kyukar baal bhawe se, kise latte pahre se, kisi baat kare se, caring kitni hai..tere sab janchya uska.

Tera jee karenn laag gya ak tu uste ghane te ghani baat kare. khoob time uske sath lagawe, tera roti khaan ne bhi ghaat jee kare. sove jib wa yaad aave, uthe jib wa yaad aave. Shingar karke tu college me jave ak usne suthra laagu mai. Apne sare aeb lako leve uste baat karti haan..Why??

Becoz now you are in LOVE with that girl and you don't want her to feel bad becoz of you!

You did all these things becoz your heart said all these things to you.

Did i miss somewhere that you din ask her mother's and grandmother's sirname?? I think you missed out this while doing shingar-patti and making yourself a good person in her eyes.

Big question --> What if now one of the sirname matches?? Its a totally different topic to discuss.

All I wanted to make you feel was that love happens just like that. You can't think and love. If you are thinking in your mind if to love this girl or not, then you are not into love.










PS : Ye mere apne vichar hai pyaar ke bare me. aapke vichar bhinn ho sakte hai!

veechaar to terey sein .par tanney to sakool khol diyaa payaar karan kaa ,jihne naa bhi beraa hogaa wo bhi mand jaa gaa.

Shibani
December 3rd, 2010, 05:26 AM
se
VP Ji....ye dekhna-bhalna kitne time tak chalna chahiye....whats the time span to make sure that "NOTHING" literally nothing will go wrong as a good time has been spent in analyzing and to make a good match? Is it GURANTEED to go on for ever for a life time? Kya DOGA BRIGADE ke karwaye huay rishtey sarey safal hotey aaye hain?

What i strongly disagree to"ब्याह आदमी नै एक बार ही करना चाहिए ठोक-बजा के आर फेर उसको हर कीमत पर निभाना चाहिए" yani usko har keemat pe nibhao JUST to show that it was a GOOD decision made by DOGA BRIGADE? However suffocating THAT wrong marriage might be? But one has to LIVE a DEAD relationship with a BROAD SMILE on face just to SHOW others BUT to cheat OWN SELF? How hypocritical that would be?

Rest everything is just explained in a superb way....as if read my mind :)


Sunita ji you have touched upon a harsh reality in which lot of women are living. Maa baap sochte hain shadi kardi humari zeemadari kahatma ab jiyo ya maro. Shaadi ho jaati hain phir Bacche jin ke liye as you said DEAD RELATION saari umar dhone padte hain. Ik jo humare JAt samaj mein doosre kya kahenge ka prachalan hain yeh bahot kharab hain. ik doose ki hod mein bahot se aise kaam ho jaate hai jis mein almost bacchoon ki bali di jaati hain. Mein phir isi baat par zor doongi ki maa baap aur bacchoo ki rishta undersatnding ka hona chahiye. Bacchoo ko hamesha baccha nahin smajhna chahiye. Agar bacchoo ko aur unke views ko aap parents respect karnge to bacche zyada responsible banage. Honesty will come in parent and child relation. Nahin to darwazoon ke peeche sabh ko maloom hain kya kya hota hain. Pardon me for saying this but najayaz bandhish nahin lagani chahiye.

Jahan tak dekhne dekhani ki baat hain woh chahye jitni marzi karlo aur yeh baat dono love aur arranged marrige pe hain....kyunki farak itna hi hain Love marrige mein ladke ladki apni tasli karke ghar batate hain....aur arranged mein parents....par dono roop mein har koi apni priorties ko pehli satisfy karta hain. Shadi ke baad relation naye sire se develop hota hain jisko bahot saare factore influnce karte hain. Family, culture, responsibility, baccha aur aapsi nature. Koi bhi pehle se nahi define kar sakta ki kaun sa rishta chalega kaun sa nahin......shaadi ke baad couples mein bahot change aate hain. Isliye basics hi confirm kiye ja sakte hain. Baaki baat aapsi resilience aur flexibility pe reh jaati hain.

two educated like minded people with similar family culture have more chances of sailing through the ocean of marriage. Family culture se mera matlab caste nahin hain but individuval family beliefs which can and are dictated by various other factors like education, profession, surroundings.

Baaki Samaj ne to Ram aur Sita ko nahin baksha. Dakiyanoosi traditions ki bali deni chahiye aur sahi batoon ko apnane mein ksis ko bhi hichkichahat nahin honi chahiye. Someone has to lead....LETS BE US (JATS)

rinkusheoran
December 3rd, 2010, 05:39 AM
Somebody defined the Love to me as Getting used to anything- kisi ki aadat hona hi pyar hai and thats true even if you have dog at home, i ll tell you you anecdote ..one baniya guy was in lve with a **** Jat girl, maine usse kaha ki kuch **** chamar bhi hote hain to usne kaha ki vo jat hi hai chamar hoti to main na karta ...to jyadatar cases mein pyar yahi hota hai.

ek aur baat agar pyar hai to kya jo aapne pyar apne mata pita, bhai behan ya baki sabse hai vo kam kyun pad jata hai ek naye insan k liye??

n mere ek jaankar kahte hain ki jis shabd ka pahla hi aksar adhura hai vo kya jivan pura karega.

singhvp
December 3rd, 2010, 12:54 PM
originally posted by sunitahooda;

"]VP Ji....ye dekhna-bhalna kitne time tak chalna chahiye....whats the time span to make sure that "NOTHING" literally nothing will go wrong as a good time has been spent in analyzing and to make a good match? Is it GURANTEED to go on for ever for a life time? Kya DOGA BRIGADE ke karwaye huay rishtey sarey safal hotey aaye hain?

What i strongly disagree to"ब्याह आदमी नै एक बार ही करना चाहिए ठोक-बजा के आर फेर उसको हर कीमत पर निभाना चाहिए" yani usko har keemat pe nibhao JUST to show that it was a GOOD decision made by DOGA BRIGADE? However suffocating THAT wrong marriage might be? But one has to LIVE a DEAD relationship with a BROAD SMILE on face just to SHOW others BUT to cheat OWN SELF? How hypocritical that would be?सुनीता जी आपने और विशाल भाई नै इसे arguments दिए सें के सारी ए गली बंद कर दी , किते बच के जाण का राह ए ना छोड्या. फिलहाल तो मैं पतली गली से निकल के मैदान छोड़ रह्या सूं पर बीच बीच मैं आता रहूँगा.
We should, however, try to calibrate our sentiments and passionate love to be in tune with pragmatism and ground realities. Love demands sacrifice. If mutual love between parents and children is true, anything can be scarified by both. The love for girl friend/boyfriend can also be sacrificed if it doesn't have approval of parents. Similarly, parents should also be willing for suitable sacrifices.
न्यूं भी नहीं करना चाहिए के लड़की नै एक-दो बार झूठा साचा " Love you Jaanu " बोल दिया आर भाज के घोड़ी पै चढ़न नै तयार होगे सेहरा बांध के I
आर लड़कियां नै भी समझना चाहिए के यो घना "love you sweet heart " बोलन आले छोरे छिछोरे बहोत हों सें.
बाकी ब्याह चाहे ये छोरे /छोरी कित्तै कर लियो पर थोड़ी सावधानी जरूरी सै I

vikasJAT
December 3rd, 2010, 02:32 PM
सुनीता जी आपने और विशाल भाई नै इसे arguments दिए सें के सारी ए गली बंद कर दी , किते बच के जाण का राह ए ना छोड्या. फिलहाल तो मैं पतली गली से निकल के मैदान छोड़ रह्या सूं पर बीच बीच मैं आता रहूँगा.
We should, however, try to calibrate our sentiments and passionate love to be in tune with pragmatism and ground realities. Love demands sacrifice. If mutual love between parents and children is true, anything can be scarified by both. The love for girl friend/boyfriend can also be sacrificed if it doesn't have approval of parents. Similarly, parents should also be willing for suitable sacrifices.
न्यूं भी नहीं करना चाहिए के लड़की नै एक-दो बार झूठा साचा " Love you Jaanu " बोल दिया आर भाज के घोड़ी पै चढ़न नै तयार होगे सेहरा बांध के I
आर लड़कियां नै भी समझना चाहिए के यो घना "love you sweet heart " बोलन आले छोरे छिछोरे बहोत हों सें.
बाकी ब्याह चाहे ये छोरे /छोरी कित्तै कर लियो पर थोड़ी सावधानी जरूरी सै I

hahahhahahahhahahaahahahaha
kasuta explanation de diya VP Singh Ji aapne to................
hahhaahhahahaa
Love you Jaanu love you sweet heart

hahahhahaahhahahahahahhaha
VP ji sach batana aapne shadi se pehle ye words kitno ko bol k dekhe hain................???????????????

singhvp
December 3rd, 2010, 04:43 PM
hahahhahahahhahahaahahahaha
kasuta explanation de diya vp singh ji aapne to................
Hahhaahhahahaa
love you jaanu love you sweet heart

hahahhahaahhahahahahahhaha
vp ji sach batana aapne shadi se pehle ye words kitno ko bol k dekhe hain................???????????????
विकास सारे राज़ न खुलवावे इब i
वैसे मुझे बिलकुल याद नहीं i हो सकै सै मज़ाक मैं बोल दिया होगा किसे ताएँ शादी तैं पहले.
शादी के बाद तो चाहे बोलो या न बोलो बेमानी है क्योंकि घर की मुर्गी दाल बराबर.
परन्तु भाई विकास प्यार तो नज़रों की ज़ुबान समझता है इसको शब्दों में तो
सिर्फ बज़्म (महफ़िल) में शायर लोग बयां करते अपनी शायरी का जलवा बिखेरने के लिए i

vikasJAT
December 3rd, 2010, 04:55 PM
विकास सारे राज़ न खुलवावे इब i
वैसे मुझे बिलकुल याद नहीं i हो सकै सै मज़ाक मैं बोल दिया होगा किसे ताएँ शादी तैं पहले.
शादी के बाद तो चाहे बोलो या न बोलो बेमानी है क्योंकि घर की मुर्गी दाल बराबर.
परन्तु भाई विकास प्यार तो नज़रों की ज़ुबान समझता है इसको शब्दों में तो
सिर्फ बज़्म (महफ़िल) में शायर लोग बयां करते अपनी शायरी का जलवा बिखेरने के लिए i


hahhahahahaaha sahi kaha sir pyar aankho ki juban samajta hai.....
per mane to aapki baaton te lage hai ki aapne apni class ki ek bhi ladki perpose kare bina na jan di hogi........
hehehehehehhehe

singhvp
December 3rd, 2010, 05:05 PM
hahhahahahaaha sahi kaha sir pyar aankho ki juban samajta hai.....
per mane to aapki baaton te lage hai ki aapne apni class ki ek bhi ladki perpose kare bina na jan di hogi........
hehehehehehhehe

Hahahaha विकास आपका sense of humour बढ़िया सै.
ना भाई propose किसे तैं नहीं करया क्योंकि उन दिना मैं डोगे का घणा डर होया करदा I

vdhillon
December 3rd, 2010, 06:09 PM
विकास सारे राज़ न खुलवावे इब i
वैसे मुझे बिलकुल याद नहीं i हो सकै सै मज़ाक मैं बोल दिया होगा किसे ताएँ शादी तैं पहले.
शादी के बाद तो चाहे बोलो या न बोलो बेमानी है क्योंकि घर की मुर्गी दाल बराबर.
परन्तु भाई विकास प्यार तो नज़रों की ज़ुबान समझता है इसको शब्दों में तो
सिर्फ बज़्म (महफ़िल) में शायर लोग बयां करते अपनी शायरी का जलवा बिखेरने के लिए i

आप तो नु कहन लाग रे सो जानो हमेशा ऐ घर की मुर्गी आले दाने खाओ सो, अर कदे take-away फास्ट फ़ूड चाख्य ना हो... घणी कहो तो या भी मान ली के इब आप के "how are you जानू" की प्रक्टिस छूट गयी. वाह भी इस लिए के आज काल भाई कुछ लोग "आपा खबर सायांग" (How r u honey - in Malay) कहवन लाग पड़े ... rofl

<आज friday है, इतना मजाक तोह चलेगा, rest self censored>

sunitahooda
December 3rd, 2010, 06:46 PM
Aap datiyo manna....nyu batao ya jhuth saach kimme kimme kahan aali baat to chhorya pai bi laagu hoti hogi akk chori jhuth bolya karein bas:confused: matlab jai chhorey bi juth saach kah dey...."you are my life n love of my life" arr mai tanne dekh kai jeeun arr maru su to chhori nai bhaaj kai lahangey ka naap na dena chahiye arr beauty parlour ki booking na karni chahiye:p

By the way I'm wondering and I may be wrong- Why ar all of us discussing LOVE more than getting married in same caste?




Aap maidan chhod kai manna jao....manne arr Vishal nai to raah paa rya hai kum tai kum aapke sahare :D

P.S.- Vishal start a new thread- How to fall/start in Love?:)
सुनीता जी आपने और विशाल भाई नै इसे arguments दिए सें के सारी ए गली बंद कर दी , किते बच के जाण का राह ए ना छोड्या. फिलहाल तो मैं पतली गली से निकल के मैदान छोड़ रह्या सूं पर बीच बीच मैं आता रहूँगा.
We should, however, try to calibrate our sentiments and passionate love to be in tune with pragmatism and ground realities. Love demands sacrifice. If mutual love between parents and children is true, anything can be scarified by both. The love for girl friend/boyfriend can also be sacrificed if it doesn't have approval of parents. Similarly, parents should also be willing for suitable sacrifices.
न्यूं भी नहीं करना चाहिए के लड़की नै एक-दो बार झूठा साचा " Love you Jaanu " बोल दिया आर भाज के घोड़ी पै चढ़न नै तयार होगे सेहरा बांध के I
आर लड़कियां नै भी समझना चाहिए के यो घना "love you sweet heart " बोलन आले छोरे छिछोरे बहोत हों सें.
बाकी ब्याह चाहे ये छोरे /छोरी कित्तै कर लियो पर थोड़ी सावधानी जरूरी सै I

singhvp
December 3rd, 2010, 07:40 PM
Aap datiyo manna....nyu batao ya jhuth saach kimme kimme kahan aali baat to chhorya pai bi laagu hoti hogi akk chori jhuth bolya karein bas:confused: matlab jai chhorey bi juth saach kah dey...."you are my life n love of my life" arr mai tanne dekh kai jeeun arr maru su to chhori nai bhaaj kai lahangey ka naap na dena chahiye arr beauty parlour ki booking na karni chahiye:p

By the way I'm wondering and I may be wrong- Why ar all of us discussing LOVE more than getting married in same caste?

Aap maidan chhod kai manna jao....manne arr Vishal nai to raah paa rya hai kum tai kum aapke sahare :D

P.S.- Vishal start a new thread- How to fall/start in Love?:)

सुनीता जी न्यू समझो के बस मै डट ग्या, और घणा ना लिखूं इस धागे पै I आप नै आर विशाल नै मेरी आँख खोल दी I आप दोनों नै मिल के मेरा brainwash कर दिया और मैं इब inter-caste marriage पर अपना रवैया
re -calibrate करने की कोशिश कर रह्या सूं . या झूठ साच आली बात छोरयाँ पै भी लागू हो सै. आपने सही कहा की हम जातीय या अंतरजातीय विवाह के मुद्दे से दूर चले गए और Love angle पर ज्यादा चर्चा करने लगे. इसलिए मै यहीं पर पूर्णविराम लगा रहा हूँ और आपके द्वारा विशाल को इस विषय पर एक अलग धागा शुरू करने के सुझाव का समर्थन करता हूँ.

PS: वैसे भी विशाल नै आजकल नए नए topics पर threads की झड़ी सी लगा राखी सै

singhvp
December 3rd, 2010, 07:59 PM
आप तो नु कहन लाग रे सो जानो हमेशा ऐ घर की मुर्गी आले दाने खाओ सो, अर कदे take-away फास्ट फ़ूड चाख्य ना हो... घणी कहो तो या भी मान ली के इब आप के "how are you जानू" की प्रक्टिस छूट गयी. वाह भी इस लिए के आज काल भाई कुछ लोग "आपा खबर सायांग" (How r u honey - in Malay) कहवन लाग पड़े ... rofl

<आज friday है, इतना मजाक तोह चलेगा, rest self censored>

Good humour. विशाल यो "आपा खबर सायांग" तो मैंने रट लिया I पर मैं न्यू सोच रह्या था कि विशाल नै यो Malay शब्द कहाँ से सीख्या आर क्यों सीख्या. जरूर दाल मै कोए कांकर सै I
खैर और दो चार बढ़िया आर काम के sentence हों तो PM में भेज देना बेरा न कित काम आ ज्यां I आर मज़ाक करण का तो Friday नै क्यों सातों दिन हक़ सै आपका.

vdhillon
December 3rd, 2010, 08:18 PM
Good humour. विशाल यो "आपा खबर सायांग" तो मैंने रट लिया I पर मैं न्यू सोच रह्या था कि विशाल नै यो Malay शब्द कहाँ से सीख्या आर क्यों सीख्या. जरूर दाल मै कोए कांकर सै I
खैर और दो चार बढ़िया आर काम के sentence हों तो PM में भेज देना बेरा न कित काम आ ज्यां I आर मज़ाक करण का तो Friday नै क्यों सातों दिन हक़ सै आपका.

मेरा के बूझो गे, बेर ना कित कित "भारत माता की जय" कर राखी से. इसी बात तोह PM में बुझय करे. ... rofl

vdhillon
December 3rd, 2010, 09:17 PM
Debriefing to be continued on personal email.

some content deleted already

@ Sunita, PSingh & Vikas: New thread about love created

"Honey, Its all about love: Romantic Pyar Ke Nyare Nyare Kisse"
http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?30866-Honey-Its-all-about-love-Romantic-Pyar-ke-Nyare-Nyare-Kisse&p=256882#post256882

singhvp
December 3rd, 2010, 09:24 PM
some content deleted already

In fact, I had posted some content twice. That is why I requested the moderator to remove one.

sanjaymalik
December 5th, 2010, 07:00 PM
I will explain you with one simple scenario :

Suppose tu college me hai bhai. Your first day.. Tune ek ladki dekhi apni class me. Dekhne me sunder, chehre pe innocence, height bhi thik thak, suit salwar me hai. (You don't know her nature till now). Class me intro hua tujhe uska poora naam bhi pta chal gya. Tera sirname er uska sirname match nahi hua. Wa jaata ki bhi se. Tu raji hoya. Tane wa pasand aayi(pyar me or pasand me farak hai). Lab lagi, wo tere batch me aa gayi. Tu or bhi raji hoya. Tane uste baat karni shuru kari. 2-4 din tane baat kari uste. Uska nature tane badhiya laagya. Tu dheere dheere or attract hoya uski traf (still not love). Tane uska number bhi le liya eeb. Thare msg shuru hoge apas me. Shuru me baat kari "falani file bana li" "dhakdi assignment bana li" "makde ke test ki tayari kar li". She also replies in same vein. Thari baat or faltu hon laagi.. class me katthe baithan laag ge. Tnae wa or badhiya laagen laag gi --> your heart now starts beating for her. usko dekhte hi tere dil ki dhadkan tej hone lag jati hai. wo pass ati hai to dil me ek halki si sursuri hoti hia. If you touch her you feel sensations running all through your body (Kayi to shauk shauk me khoye marte chaalya kare choriya ke, m not talking about those guys here)

Fer tumne phone pe baat shuru kar di. Tane uski sari baat badhiya lage. wa kyukar bole se, kyukar lakhaawe se, kyukar baal bhawe se, kise latte pahre se, kisi baat kare se, caring kitni hai..tere sab janchya uska.

Tera jee karenn laag gya ak tu uste ghane te ghani baat kare. khoob time uske sath lagawe, tera roti khaan ne bhi ghaat jee kare. sove jib wa yaad aave, uthe jib wa yaad aave. Shingar karke tu college me jave ak usne suthra laagu mai. Apne sare aeb lako leve uste baat karti haan..Why??

Becoz now you are in LOVE with that girl and you don't want her to feel bad becoz of you!

You did all these things becoz your heart said all these things to you.

Did i miss somewhere that you din ask her mother's and grandmother's sirname?? I think you missed out this while doing shingar-patti and making yourself a good person in her eyes.

Big question --> What if now one of the sirname matches?? Its a totally different topic to discuss.

All I wanted to make you feel was that love happens just like that. You can't think and love. If you are thinking in your mind if to love this girl or not, then you are not into love.










PS : Ye mere apne vichar hai pyaar ke bare me. aapke vichar bhinn ho sakte hai!

Deepak, yo school kit khol raha hai tu.

pragati
December 14th, 2010, 01:27 PM
I think, marriage is not only a knot between two person but it is a knot between two families as well....nowadays many girls thinking of just ki bas mai aur mera husband, which is not good and not fit socially...sirf husband nahi puri family ko sath lekar chalna hota hai..apni caste me adjustement easily hota hai, bcoz both hav almost same upbringing with jat values and culture...aur fir jat to jat hota hai :) ...only a jat guy can handle a jat girl :)
I strongly believe in marriage in same caste...and i dont think ki pyar andha hota hai...i saw many examples in society jaha log pyar-2 chilla kar shaadi kar lete hai aur baad me realize hota hai ki pyar to kahi tha hi nahi...

akshaymalik84
December 14th, 2010, 10:51 PM
...only a jat guy can handle a jat girl :)


At last, Something to cheer for JAT Guys.

vikasJAT
December 15th, 2010, 09:14 AM
At last, Something to cheer for JAT Guys.
Jaat ladka ho ya ladki use koi aur cast wala jhel bhi ni sakta.........
dusri caste wlo ko to neend bhi ni aati agar kisi jaat se relation ( shadi type) ho jye to.......hahhahahhahahhahahha

gaam me e dekh lo agay 4-5 chamar ya chude ladai karte honge aur koi ek jaat khali hath ja k 2-3 gaal bak de to sare chup chap ghar chale ja se nu bolte bolte ki JAAT chad ra se.........hahahahahha

amitdabas22
December 15th, 2010, 12:01 PM
Jaat ladka ho ya ladki use koi aur cast wala jhel bhi ni sakta.........
dusri caste wlo ko to neend bhi ni aati agar kisi jaat se relation ( shadi type) ho jye to.......hahhahahhahahhahahha

gaam me e dekh lo agay 4-5 chamar ya chude ladai karte honge aur koi ek jaat khali hath ja k 2-3 gaal bak de to sare chup chap ghar chale ja se nu bolte bolte ki JAAT chad ra se.........hahahahahha

Kati sahi kaha bhai Vikas. Na to jat ki chhori doosra koi sambhal sakta arr naa jaat ka chhora kisi pe sambhalta.
Chhori te doosre ke naak me dum kar de se, arr doosra ke naak me nakel ye chhore ghal de sain.
par ya baat sab ke thodi vaari samajh me aave se.
Jib phans le se naa, jib!

jagmohan
December 15th, 2010, 12:06 PM
Dear All,

Let me begin by admitting that it is actually very difficult for the present generation to handle the institution of marriage. The reasons are many; education, awareness, competition, peer pressure, social pressures, ‘rat race’, so called equality of the fairer sex, immigration to areas away from home for work and education and the thought of being ‘liberalized’. I think all of us who are over 50 really had it easy at least when it came to the issue of marriage. I think we were brought up in a manner wherein for us to accept whatever our parents decided or did was nothing but the gospel truth. We didn’t do too badly either! See the number of young JAT Gold Medalist. It would be worthwhile for someone to carryout a little research on the parents of these Gold Medalists and find out how many of them have married outside the caste or within the same GOTRA.

Another major change is the different pulls and pressures exerted in a joint family versus a single family structure. I have absolutely no doubt that it is hugely advantageous to marry within the same caste (JAT must marry a JAT) and also avoid at least Two GOTRAS (self and mother’s) if not three (self, mother’s and grandmother’s). Some would argue as to why? The counter argument is why not? And if some say they don’t believe in all this ‘GOTRA’ business, then there is absolutely no argument thereafter. Go marry your brothers / sisters. I don’t know what would be the reaction of a present day JAT family towards a child who marries say within mother’s GOTRA. I believe even single families, leave alone joint ones, would not take very kindly to this.

Is the JAT society capable of accepting few cases of exceptions? I think yes. I have seen cases wherein people have accepted those who have married outside the caste. When it comes to acceptance, I think it is easier to accept those who have married outside the caste then those who marry within the same or mother’s GOTRA.

I believe there is also a yearning in our younger generation to know and understand what JAT actually stands for and why we are what we are. Progress of any kind should not take us away from our roots. When society gets educated, deeper should be the pursuit for its roots; culture and traditions.

Best regards,

JS Malik

amitdabas22
December 15th, 2010, 12:21 PM
Dear All,

..of being ‘liberalized’. I think all of us who are over 50 really had it easy at least when it came to the issue of marriage. I think we were brought up in a manner wherein for us to accept whatever our parents decided or did was nothing but the gospel truth. We didn’t do too badly either! See the number of young JAT Gold Medalist.

I believe there is also a yearning in our younger generation to know and understand what JAT actually stands for and why we are what we are. Progress of any kind should not take us away from our roots. When society gets educated, deeper should be the pursuit for its roots; culture and traditions.

Best regards,

JS Malik

Malik Sir,

A very well put post i must say. But would like to mention that the ease you had at the time of marrigae in your times was precisely because of the less "liberalised" world then. Hardly anyone except a few, was working in a cross-cultural environment like the army and some other services. Jaats were even late to arrive on the service sector scene because of their agricultural background. So less of mingling with the outside castes and the world. Those who have had the exposure in the earlier times are even more accepting in their behaviour to the present day trends.

Also to the inter caste marriages scenario and your own logic of leaving two-three gotras, i think the cross breeding in case of inter caste marriages should produce even superior offsprings genetically. I would comment more later on your post .

ravi159
December 28th, 2010, 09:30 AM
marriage shall be an indivisual choice. and intercaste marriage is great to know that we are human first and later from any caste nationality or religion.
there are certain charather attributes in being a jat caste. we shall respect our culture though not be blindfolded in custom to hinder the growth for future generation. any kind of violence is non progressive towards the betterment of humanity. while we respect our culture we must reaspect the indivisuality of our friends and family members. it is the fear inside us that takes us to resist things.

riyaa
January 6th, 2011, 04:29 PM
What I think is, Parents should remove castism from there mind, and make there children marry with the person they want, only if they think they are compatible to each other, i am not saying that, Parents should make there children free to marry anyone but atleast once they should try to know what there children want!

Samarkadian
January 6th, 2011, 04:47 PM
What I think is, Parents should remove castism from there mind, and make there children marry with the person they want, only if they think they are compatible to each other, i am not saying that, Parents should make there children free to marry anyone but atleast once they should try to know what there children want!

Interesting thinking but जाति वो चीज़ है जो कभी नहीं जाती

Further lets assume if girl finds a Dhed i.e chuda/chamar/Dhanak enough compatible and head to toe in love with girl [ and girl too ] . Shall that girl go to marry him and convey the same to her parents?

bsbana
January 6th, 2011, 05:56 PM
people should marry in their caste only but if someone didn't get girl in own caste then he may marry some keralite or bangla girl who cares

htomar
January 6th, 2011, 07:03 PM
same or inter caste marriage.it depends upon 2 person who are going to marry.depend karta hai ki girl and boy kya sochte hai apni family ka.
agar kisi ko lagta hai ki uski family ko samaj mai koi prblm nahi hogi ya fir kahi jaye family hume kya karna.then it is easy to marry a girl/boy of other caste.
rahi baat love ki to love shadi ka mohtaaj nahi hota.love is to inse bahut aage badhkar hai.haa acha rahta hai ki jis boy/girl se love karo usse shadi ho jaye.
bahut baate matter karti hai.kisi ke liye family,kisi ke liye kuchh.apni family ke views ke baare mai sab jaante hai.so acha rahta hai ki agar pahle hi us level tak na jao jaha family ka oppose karna pade.

riyaa
January 10th, 2011, 12:21 PM
Some how i agree to all the above answers, culture is important, but the thing is we made culture, not culture made us, our ancestors years ago have settled the caste system, why still that concepts are in progress, we all adopted many things with time than why peoples haven't change their mind for love and relationships.

Samarkadian
January 10th, 2011, 12:29 PM
Some how i agree to all the above answers, culture is important, but the thing is we made culture, not culture made us, our ancestors years ago have settled the caste system, why still that concepts are in progress, we all adopted many things with time than why peoples haven't change their mind for love and relationships.

Why they shall NOT be in progress? Equality does exist but in cemetry,cremation grounds where all are dead.

Further, see the divorce rates in western counteries[Google it] and get your answer yourself. A bit further, there are 70-80% failed marrages out of 100. Lets move a bit further and out of these 80% divorce more than 50% divorces are initiated by your own gender.

For love and marriages it was Goethe who put it decades ago :-

Love is an ideal thing while marriage is a real thing.

People dwell in confusion, often, about real and ideal in love,marriage,relationships; educated, uneducated irrespectively.

riyaa
January 12th, 2011, 01:03 PM
Love is an ideal thing while marriage is a real thing.

I have experienced it! and i am agree to you, Life without morals is nothing,All in all Love marriages are not as successful as Arrange ones..At last i want to say let parents decide your partners!

prashantacmet
January 12th, 2011, 01:17 PM
I have experienced it! and i am agree to you, Life without morals is nothing,All in all Love marriages are not as successful as Arrange ones..At last i want to say let parents decide your partners!
so you finally gave up. nice!!

singhvp
January 12th, 2011, 03:59 PM
For love and marriages it was Goethe who put it decades ago :-

Love is an ideal thing while marriage is a real thing.



Goethe was wrong in saying so. love is something real and natural which spurts spontaneously out of one's heart while marriage is premeditated thought crafted by the crafty brains.

riyaa
January 13th, 2011, 02:38 PM
so you finally gave up. nice!!

No, i didn't, I just accepted what was real and true! I respect my parents. AND BTW here is answer..
Goethe was wrong in saying so. love is something real and natural which spurts spontaneously out of one's heart while marriage is premeditated thought crafted by the crafty brains.

Samarkadian
January 13th, 2011, 02:48 PM
Goethe was wrong in saying so. love is something real and natural which spurts spontaneously out of one's heart while marriage is premeditated thought crafted by the crafty brains.

Heart is an animal.

singhvp
January 13th, 2011, 03:51 PM
Heart is an animal.

Anatomically, the humans are also animals driven by their animal instincts viz. hunger, thirst, sensuousness, pain, joy, greed, jealousy, etc. It is only the brain which makes them distinct from other animals. But basic instincts of human beings remain as animal as in other living beings and love is a basic instinct. It is a different thing that by virtue of our being blessed with a superior brain, we are able to control some of our basic instincts like love to a great extent as and when necessitated by our surroundings but can not kill the same. We can never stop the emotions of love emanating from our heart, we usually curb the same out of compulsion to suit parental or societal conveniences.

prashantacmet
January 13th, 2011, 04:26 PM
No, i didn't, I just accepted what was real and true! I respect my parents. AND BTW here is answer..
Is LOVE fictional and lie or you want to say that one should repulse his/her emotions of love for parental and societal demands?

akshaymalik84
January 13th, 2011, 05:36 PM
Heart is an animal.
हा हा हा ...... दिल तो डांगर है जी ......

ravinderjeet
January 13th, 2011, 05:44 PM
हा हा हा ...... दिल तो डांगर है जी ......

akshay ye to ksootey hoye serious discussion karan laagrey sein ,er tu majaak banaawey, galat baat.

Shibani
January 14th, 2011, 07:24 AM
जाति वो चीज़ है जो कभी नहीं जाती

Samar aapke is sentence mein to sabh jaa hi rahai hain......jaati jaati jaati....sorry off the topic but couldn't resist the temptation of bring this out.

riyaa
January 14th, 2011, 03:58 PM
Is LOVE fictional and lie or you want to say Well it depends, if you have your love as your life partner you can say it exist, if you are cheated or by some other mean you get separated its doesn't exist! Its your luck what you get!


that one should repulse his/her emotions of love for parental and societal demands? Well parents did alot for there children, every parent want that there child should have a bright future, and BTW according to me, emotions of parents should be given more value! Well am against of inter caste marriages, but if I suppose to do inter caste marriage, i will try to convert love to arrange, and what i want at last, If my Parents Deny, then they should be having the another reason except the caste system.


In addition to it MR VP Singh you simply rock! hats of to your answers!

spdeshwal
January 14th, 2011, 05:19 PM
हा हा हा हा ..डांगर !
अक्षय भाई, डांगर भी झोटा / खागड़ सा !
मेरा मतलब है, झोटे खागड़ सा मनचला, रोज नई २ खूद खान का जी करे जा से !
आज समर के गेहूं में छिडदम तार दिया, काल अक्षय की बिर्सम में फस्तूर ठागया !
पर गुलजार साहेब ने ये भी कहा है, "दिल तो बच्चा है जी"!
बच्चे जैसा हठ, बच्चे जैसा भोलापन ! और जो दीमाग की ना सुने तो बच्चे जैसा निश्छल !
पता नहीं में सही हूँ या गलत, पर मेरा फिर भी यही माननाहै, "दिल की सुनो, दिल की मानो"
दीमाग, पचड़े में डाले ही डाले !
@ समर भाई जाति, जाती जातीये जागी!

anuragsunda
January 14th, 2011, 08:03 PM
Still there are many families in India, wants their children to marry in their own caste, still people have orthodox beliefs,Do you think a guy/girl should revolt against his/her family to get married in other caste, in a situation when they both love each other.

Most of the time people have misunderstanding between LOVE and AFFECTION. It might be possible that you may attracted by anyone like Aamir khan, Gautam Gambhir, Vijay malya .....or your friend or neighbor, classmate etc. but that attraction will pursue for whole life you may not know. LOVE means itself come close to the community, not to avoid community which human being learn to fight and face the real life problems with ease.
I think "Parents" are like a "Sun" and children are "moon" and its better for "moon" to get light from SUN to sustain its brightness life long, And for me-"light is LOVE"
Anurag

annch
January 14th, 2011, 10:37 PM
I personally know a jat girl married to a chamar who is a Phd from MIT.
BTW, dhed jaati/janam se bante hai yaa karm se?


Interesting thinking but जाति वो चीज़ है जो कभी नहीं जाती

Further lets assume if girl finds a Dhed i.e chuda/chamar/Dhanak enough compatible and head to toe in love with girl [ and girl too ] . Shall that girl go to marry him and convey the same to her parents?

spdeshwal
January 15th, 2011, 02:06 AM
Well it depends, if you have your love as your life partner you can say it exist, if you are cheated or by some other mean you get separated its doesn't exist! Its your luck what you get!

Well parents did alot for there children, every parent want that there child should have a bright future, and BTW according to me, emotions of parents should be given more value! Well am against of inter caste marriages, but if I suppose to do inter caste marriage, i will try to convert love to arrange, and what i want at last, If my Parents Deny, then they should be having the another reason except the caste system.


In addition to it MR VP Singh you simply rock! hats of to your answers!


रिया जी आपने सही कहा!
माता पिता से अहम् , इस दुनिया में कुछ भी नहीं !
दिल, माता पिता का भी टूटता है !
माता पिता भी सपने देखते हैं बच्चों के लिए ! उनकी दुनिया ही बच्चों के इर्दगिर्द घुमती है !
लेकिन, अगर माता पिता इसे अहम् का प्रशन न बनायें, तब दिल क्यों टूटेगा ?
मुश्किल यही होती है की हम उन्हें बच्चा ही समझाते रहते हैं, जिम्मेदार नहीं समझते !

इन सबके बावजूद यही कहूँगा की माता पिता, सामाजिक दबाव या झूठी शान के लिए नहीं, बल्कि बच्चों का हित देखें और फैसला करें !
और ये बात में तब कह रह हूँ जब में इस दोराह से बस कुछ ही दूर खड़ा हूँ !

हालांकि समाज की भी हमारे जीवन में अहम् भूमिका है, लेकिन बना तो हर एक के अधिकारों की सुरक्षा के लिए है !
अगर कोई व्यक्ति किसी दुसरे के अधिकारों का अतिकर्मण नहीं करता, तब तक समाज का भी दायित्व बनता है की अपनी सीमाओं का अतिकर्मण न करे !

singhvp
January 15th, 2011, 07:25 AM
अगर कोई व्यक्ति किसी दुसरे के अधिकारों का अतिकर्मण नहीं करता, तब तक समाज का भी दायित्व बनता है की अपनी सीमाओं का अतिकर्मण न करे !

देशवाल साहब ने बात का निचोड़ कर दिया और सारांश में बहुत गहरी बात कह गए i बहुत बढ़िया i

Samarkadian
January 15th, 2011, 10:54 AM
I personally know a jat girl married to a chamar who is a Phd from MIT.
BTW, dhed jaati/janam se bante hai yaa karm se?

Thanks for bringing it up. Else discussion would ve been one quarter.

Even I am known to a Jat boy who is married to a Chamar girl, who is an IAS(IRS-Batch 07).

At Harvard/MIT only high IQ people get admission. IQ is the basic criteria. Societal dominance can't be alone achieved with higher IQ though a life full of luxary could be.

Now my question back to your question is :- Does IQ trump everything? Does IQ trump genetic superiority gained through centuries of evolution?

And it was hard for me to believe and accept but in realistic day to day world Jaati is by birth. Genetics is next to the God. Nature hardly cares for an IIT/MIT/Harvardian or a school drop out when it comes to survival endurance and longeivity. Life is a practical joke thrown at humanity by God.

sjakhars
January 15th, 2011, 12:07 PM
Deswal Ji, seema nirdharan kon karega? samaj, atikrami ya atikramit?


अगर कोई व्यक्ति किसी दुसरे के अधिकारों का अतिकर्मण नहीं करता, तब तक समाज का भी दायित्व बनता है की अपनी सीमाओं का अतिकर्मण न करे !

spdeshwal
January 15th, 2011, 01:16 PM
Thanks for bringing it up. Else discussion would ve been one quarter.

Even I am known to a Jat boy who is married to a Chamar girl, who is an IAS(IRS-Batch 07).

At Harvard/MIT only high IQ people get admission. IQ is the basic criteria. Societal dominance can't be alone achieved with higher IQ though a life full of luxary could be.

Now my question back to your question is :- Does IQ trump everything? Does IQ trump genetic superiority gained through centuries of evolution?

And it was hard for me to believe and accept but in realistic day to day world Jaati is by birth. Genetics is next to the God. Nature hardly cares for an IIT/MIT/Harvardian or a school drop out when it comes to survival endurance and longeivity. Life is a practical joke thrown at humanity by God.

So it all comes down to physical appearance, mannerism and background, which is about what caste the boy or girl belongs to.

In my opinion, the objection from the parents and family would be less if:

a) The person is of attractive physical personality.
b) Is from the caste, which is just next in hierarchical order, upper or lower.
c) Cast not known or incorrectly disclosed.
d) Out of social pressure, living away from Jat heartland or in a foreign country.

When, I was writing these lines, I casually asked my wife, would it be okay with her, if one of our child, decide to marry a person from lower caste.

Without waiting from a second, she said, not at all.
When I asked her again, why?
A typical Jatni replied, “ ..............Pagal ho rehya se”
Then, I asked her the reason, she staggered for few seconds and came the logical reply,” उनमे हीन भावना रहेगी, जिससे बहार वे कभी नहीं निकल सकते !”
I agreed to her viewpoint to some extent.

I have friend from Chamar jati, a senior physician and married to a jat lady.
I have always observed some kind of inferiority complex in his behavior, which always touches my heart.


Cheers!

singhvp
January 15th, 2011, 02:19 PM
Societal dominance can't be alone achieved with higher IQ though a life full of luxary could be.



So you are in favour of perpetual dominance of one particular caste over others. Mayavati has proved this theory wrong in UP by her social engineering. People like Tikait had to cut a sorry figure some time back when she sent police sleuths to arrest him consequent upon his casting some castiest slur on her. There is no doubt she is calling shots there without any sense of inferiority and with full social dominance. Many upper caste people making a bee line every morning to pay their obeisance to her 'Mayavi' power. At one point of time, even Ajit had supported her Prime Ministerial candidature when the government was about to fall on nuclear issue. How would we feel if other castes, especially the so called upper castes viz. Rajputs, Brahmins or Vaishyas try to justify their dominance over Jats treating themselves as divinely superior. The caste system is not divinely ordained. It is all man-made. It is a different thing that when it comes to matrimonial affairs, the first preference is normally given to someone within the same caste due to certain reasons and one of the reasons being a superiority/inferiority complex as explained by Shri SP Deshwal, and also the societal pressure. Man is a social animal and while living in a society it is difficult to militate against the dictates of the vigilantes of society. But in their heart of hearts, the majority of modern educated youth want to dump this outdated system of 'marriages within caste only'. Many well to do families, especially living in cities and abroad have already started breaking this tradition. Even leaders like Chaudhary Charan Singh married off his daughters to someone belonging to the so-called backward class, considered lower than Jats. It did not lowered his esteem in the eyes of his Jat fellows and he continued to enjoy their political support.

Even though marriage is purely a private affair and that the concerned parties are the best judge in such matters, parents and the close relatives have a say in such matters and it is always advisable for boys and girls to take them into confidence before taking such an important decision as marriage. Sometimes, love turns out to be just an infatuation and in the absence of familial consent the girl or boy will definitely be in the soup. One must always try to take parents and elders into confidence in marital matters to be on safe side as they would never think bad of their children.

Arvindc
January 15th, 2011, 03:11 PM
I personally know a jat girl married to a chamar who is a Phd from MIT.
BTW, dhed jaati/janam se bante hai yaa karm se?



At Harvard/MIT only high IQ people get admission. IQ is the basic criteria. Societal dominance can't be alone achieved with higher IQ though a life full of luxary could be.

Karm is definitely above all. Phd from MIT/Harvard is neither a certificate of what 'karams' a person will do nor of an intelligent person (IQ is subjective). A look into the present will tell you the 'Karams' of Harvard/MIT pass outs. For instance, look at "Abhishek Singhvi" a Harvard passout, people know him more as a person who helped Dow escape its liabilities in Bhopal disaster then anything else. I won't call such a person 'an intelligent person".


Does IQ trump everything? Does IQ trump genetic superiority gained through centuries of evolution?

No. Not at all.

It is the karam which is superior. However, 'good' karam is also subjective, and that's where the question of getting married within own cast falls to. The definition of 'good' karams varies from community to community, for some one it is the devotion towards Gods and/or Deities, for someone it would be earning good money, for someone it could be respect and care of elders. Within a community the likelihoods of matching the definition of 'good' between two people is higher and thus their higher chances of harmony. This is what, I think, Samar also meant by the below lines.


And it was hard for me to believe and accept but in realistic day to day world Jaati is by birth. Genetics is next to the God. Nature hardly cares for an IIT/MIT/Harvardian or a school drop out when it comes to survival endurance and longeivity. Life is a practical joke thrown at humanity by God.

That is why, when people search for a suitable match for marriage, they discuss the 'karams' of parents and their for-fathers, because that's were they can get some hint of what lies in future.

spdeshwal
January 15th, 2011, 03:36 PM
Deswal Ji, seema nirdharan kon karega? samaj, atikrami ya atikramit?

जाखर जी

सीमाएं परिलक्षित हैं !
प्राकृतिक न्याय की प्रवृति पर आधारित, सामाजिक वयवस्था का जैसे २ क्रमिक विकाश हुआ, वयक्तिक और सामूहिक अधिकारों की सीमाएं भी निश्चित होती चली गई !
अतः , अधिकार सीमाएं परिलक्षित हैं! सीमाओं का अतिक्रमण तो तब ही होगा जब सीमाएं होंगी !
समस्या, सीमा निर्धारण की नहीं है, बल्कि पालन की है !
इसके लिए अतिकर्मी व् अतिकर्मित , दोनों बराबर के दोषी हैं !
अतिकर्मी दोषी है, यह स्पष्ट है,परन्तु अतिकर्मित भी दोषी है, क्योंकि वह ऐसा होने देता है !
उसे अपने अधिकारों की ताक़त को जानना होगा, तब ही वह अदृशय शक्ति अतिकर्मी के खिलाफ लड़ने की हिमत देगी !

आपने वो गजल सुनी होगी, " जो न जाने हक की ताक़त, रब न देवे उसको हिम्मत "

खुश रहो !

SALURAM
January 15th, 2011, 07:19 PM
ये इश्क नहीं आसान, बस इतना समझ लीजे,
एक आग का दरिया है और डूब के जाना है.
प्यार इस दुनिया की सबसे बड़ी चुनौती है. ऐसा कहा जाता है कि इस दुनिया में प्यार आज तक किसी को भी नहीं मिला. रोजाना न जाने कितने लोग प्रेमविवाह करते हैं. इसका मतलब ये हर्गिज नहीं कि उन्होंने इश्क के आगरूपी दरिया को पार कर लिया. प्यार की दुश्मन बस ये दुनिया ही नहीं है, बल्कि इस दुनिया को चलाने वाली अदृश्य ताकत भी नहीं चाहती कि कोई बिना यह आग का दरिया पार करे सच्चे प्यार का सुख ले जाए. जो लोग बिना अग्निपरीक्षा दिए प्रेमविवाह करते हैं, वे दुनिया के कहर से भले ही बच जाएं, लेकिन तब इस दुनिया को चलाने वाली ताकत उन्हें चैन से नहीं जीने देती. उन्हें कभी कुछ, तो कभी कुछ बड़ा दुःख दिया जाता है, ताकि वे बिना संघर्ष के हासिल किए प्यार का सुख न ले सकें. जो लोग प्यार संघर्ष के बाद हासिल करते हैं, वे ठीक-ठाक जीवन बिता लेते हैं.
अंतर्जातीय विवाह नीची जाति वाले लड़के के लिए जीत की तरह है, जबकि उच्च जाति की लड़की के घरवालों के लिए एक हार की तरह. मान लीजिए कोई नाई युवक किसी जाट लड़की को प्रेम जाल में फंसाकर उससे विवाह कर लेता है तो फिर लड़की के रिश्तेदारों और आस-पास के जाटों का 4 आदमियों में बैठना मुश्किल हो जाएगा. सभी दबे मुंह ताने मारने लगेंगे-'देखे बड़े जाट, एक नाई इनकी लड़की को ले उड़ा और ये देखते ही रह गए.'
किसी पर इश्क का बुखार कुछ ज्यादा ही तेज चढ़ जाए (भले ही दोनों एक ही जाति के हों) तो फिर दोनों को अग्निपरीक्षा देने के लिए कहना चाहिए. उन्हें कुछ साल (कम से कम 6-7 साल) के लिए बिना मिले-जुले, बात किए रहने के लिए कहना चाहिए. अगर प्यार असली हुआ तो समय उन दोनों पर कोई फर्क नहीं डाल सकेगा और अगर प्यार केवल शारीरिक आकर्षण हुआ तो वे टूट जाएंगे और या तो घर से भाग जाएंगे या फिर किसी और में दिलचस्पी लेने लगेंगे. यदि वे प्यार की परीक्षा पार कर लेते हैं तो फिर उनकी शादी कर देनी चाहिए और घर-बार बेचकर कहीं और चले जाना चाहिए, साथ ही लड़की को कह देना चाहिए कि आज के बाद हमसे तुम्हारा कोई मतलब नहीं है.
कोई बिना परीक्षा दिए अंतर्जातीय या घरवालों की मर्जी के खिलाफ विवाह करने की सोचे तो फिर उन्हें यथासंभव सबक सिखाया जाना चाहिए. उनसे सब तरह के रिश्ते तो तोड़ ही लेने चाहिए कम से कम.
नोट : ये मेरे निजी विचार हैं. दूसरों के विचार अलग हो सकते हैं.

bilkul sahi hain ....

sjakhars
January 15th, 2011, 09:56 PM
Deswal Ji,
Aapka matlab hai seemayen to hain parantu log un seemayon se wakif nahi hain? agar aisa hai to kon decide karega ki seemaon ka palan ho raha hai ya nahi? kya koi aisi sanstha/vyakti hai jo in seemaon ka palan sunishchit kare? agar hai to kya wo samaj hai? agar samaj hai to samaj ko kya karna chahiye jab koi seemaon ka ullanghan kare?
Kripaya meri agyaanta aur mere seedhe prashnon ke liye mujhe kshama karen.

जाखर जी

सीमाएं परिलक्षित हैं !
प्राकृतिक न्याय की प्रवृति पर आधारित, सामाजिक वयवस्था का जैसे २ क्रमिक विकाश हुआ, वयक्तिक और सामूहिक अधिकारों की सीमाएं भी निश्चित होती चली गई !
अतः , अधिकार सीमाएं परिलक्षित हैं! सीमाओं का अतिक्रमण तो तब ही होगा जब सीमाएं होंगी !
समस्या, सीमा निर्धारण की नहीं है, बल्कि पालन की है !
इसके लिए अतिकर्मी व् अतिकर्मित , दोनों बराबर के दोषी हैं !
अतिकर्मी दोषी है, यह स्पष्ट है,परन्तु अतिकर्मित भी दोषी है, क्योंकि वह ऐसा होने देता है !
उसे अपने अधिकारों की ताक़त को जानना होगा, तब ही वह अदृशय शक्ति अतिकर्मी के खिलाफ लड़ने की हिमत देगी !

आपने वो गजल सुनी होगी, " जो न जाने हक की ताक़त, रब न देवे उसको हिम्मत "

खुश रहो !

annch
January 16th, 2011, 01:00 AM
It is easy to accept the example I gave in my post because nobody can deny the high IQ of a chamar guy on an even playing field!!
It was a simple example how caste/ race/ religion can become immaterial when two people decide to get married.

If that chamar guy had believed that he was "inferior" or "backward to others in the society because he was born a "chamar" because of the genes/ nature, then would he be at MIT today?
Even your signature reads-"As I shall imagine, so shall I become", and not "As I shall be born, so shall I become"?

Besides the caste, there is lot more to a person that makes him/ her better than others.
And, "compatibility" does seem like a good reason for marriage. That compatibility can be of caste, values, IQ, wealth, emotional makeup, appearance, profession, etc , etc,or all of these depending on what a person gives importance to.


Thanks for bringing it up. Else discussion would ve been one quarter.

Even I am known to a Jat boy who is married to a Chamar girl, who is an IAS(IRS-Batch 07).

At Harvard/MIT only high IQ people get admission. IQ is the basic criteria. Societal dominance can't be alone achieved with higher IQ though a life full of luxary could be.

Now my question back to your question is :- Does IQ trump everything? Does IQ trump genetic superiority gained through centuries of evolution?

And it was hard for me to believe and accept but in realistic day to day world Jaati is by birth. Genetics is next to the God. Nature hardly cares for an IIT/MIT/Harvardian or a school drop out when it comes to survival endurance and longeivity. Life is a practical joke thrown at humanity by God.

sunillathwal
January 16th, 2011, 04:49 AM
And it was hard for me to believe and accept but in realistic day to day world Jaati is by birth. Genetics is next to the God. Nature hardly cares for an IIT/MIT/Harvardian or a school drop out when it comes to survival endurance and longeivity. Life is a practical joke thrown at humanity by God.

Samar, there are flaws in your logic. It seems to me that you are convinced about the segregation of different social groups (caste, ethnicity etc.) according to "superiority-hierarchy" .
I do agree with the fact that nature does not made everybody equal but then within a particular group itself people are unequal. For instance: Taking the above example of IQ, consider two groups A and B; If these groups are sufficiently large then IQ value curve will show a significant variation in both groups. Mother Nature dictates the terms here and hence a dumbbell shaped curve.
So for a person from group A, it is better to choose somebody from the top 10% group B rather than choosing someone from bottom 90% of group B! (speaking academically).

Now arises The Question: If the "average-A" is superior than the "average-B"? Answer is not that simple. Problem lies with the definition of "superiority". Does being physically strong is enough for superiority? OR IQ also matters OR street-smartness and smugness :D are also important for survival?

Then there is problem of external factors (money, family, opportunities, geography, food habits, etc.) which can soooo easily undermine the genetics.
You said, genetics is next to God, I would say [B]external factors are equal to God.. may be more than God.
Suppose, person X has a fine set of genes (strong IQ, immunity from diseases, etc.); person y is with 'average' genes but born in a decent (in richness term) family. Person X works in mine/farm/factory with poor health regulations and person y is a software engineer and work out regularly. ----> Chances are person y will live longer (and happier) than person X. There goes the whole concept of genetic-superiority. [btw there is a nice movie Gattaca discussing the question of genetic-superiority & will power]

Okay, I have few questions:

1. Talking about "gifts of knowledge", nobody can beat "Jews". Jewish Nobel Laureates are far far more in number than any other ethnicity/religious group. Goes without saying Nobel Laureates means the he/she is the pioneer of his/her field and he/she has contributed a lot for the betterment of humanity.
Does it mean Jews are "superior" than others? Where does Indians or Jats lie in this hierarchy?
Even in India, if you look at the IITs or NITs or university professors. Bengalis dominates everywhere. Be it TIFR, BARC, CSIR labs, IISc, any IIT, DU dept or colleges, south, north everywhere. Does it mean that we (Jats and other north Indians castes) are dumber than Bengalis ?

2. Physically: Indians are "tiny" as compared to most Europeans. I am sure Jats are not "giant" either when compared to any west or northern Europeans. A look at the average heights will confirm that. one can even see girls above 180 cms in almost all street. :D
Does this make us any 'inferior'? We are not excelling at sports either (like, Aussies). Are we inferior or Does it has something do with Govt and sports ministry?

3. Life-expectancy: a very simple measure of conventional longevity. Again we (Indians and I am sure Jats too) are 'poorer' than westerners in this aspect. Are we 'inferior' ? or is it because of some "external factors"?

-----

As pointed out by Anjoo, compatibility is a good enough reason for marrying someone- inter-caste or intra-caste.
If we strictly go by the superiority-index-manuals (if such things exist), most Jatnis will end up marrying Jews or Europeans or Americans or Aussies. And "Genetics" would suggest that it is better to allow polygamy and terminate almost all Indians (among others) as this would make world less prone to diabetics & cardiovascular diseases.

P.S. Evolution is probably the most misquoted concept.

kapdal
January 16th, 2011, 06:58 AM
Thanks for bringing it up. Else discussion would ve been one quarter.

Even I am known to a Jat boy who is married to a Chamar girl, who is an IAS(IRS-Batch 07).

At Harvard/MIT only high IQ people get admission. IQ is the basic criteria. Societal dominance can't be alone achieved with higher IQ though a life full of luxary could be.

Now my question back to your question is :- Does IQ trump everything? Does IQ trump genetic superiority gained through centuries of evolution?

And it was hard for me to believe and accept but in realistic day to day world Jaati is by birth. Genetics is next to the God. Nature hardly cares for an IIT/MIT/Harvardian or a school drop out when it comes to survival endurance and longeivity. Life is a practical joke thrown at humanity by God.

I am not sure if I understand the relevance of points made by you. Sunil has nicely explained the logical fallacy of this argument. But my question is what's the relevance of societal dominance in a marriage? Before marriage, do people really go about thinking--- hmm, if I marry this person, I am going to really dominate the masses. Yeah, maybe in medieval history where kings made marital alliances to increase their sphere of influence. Maybe, some really "driven" people still do this. But what's the relevance to average Joginder?

And then if you genuinely want to choose a genetically superior mate, then I am afraid you are going about it in a completely wrong way. I mean, if you are really serious about it, you should get a full DNA mapping of your prospective partner apart from a comprehensive health assesment. Because the jati tag is no guarantee for anything. It has been scientifically proved that more than 99% of genetic makeup of all human beings is the same- derived from the first set of homosapiens in Africa. The 1% difference can account for lots of differences- from eye color to height and what not. But this 1% is then not some constant over a set of people like a jati. DNA mappings reveal totally surprising results- like some guy in Africa whose no known ancestor ever stepped out of Africa- had some Western European genes. In a geography like Northwest India that has seen all sorts of people come and go (I mean we still don't know if Jats came from somewhere or were natives), it'd be a bit naive to assume genetic superiority without checking.

And don't get me wrong. It is possible that "on average" Jats may have some genetically desirable traits. Afterall, we see a lot of Jats doing well in Sports. But "on average" is a very dangerous term. Like I may throw 9 BPL people and Mukesh Ambani in a room and say that the average wealth of this room is 5 billion dollars (Just making up numbers- 50 billion for mukesh, 0 for others. 50 divided bv 10 is 5). But if you randomly have to choose a partner from there, then 90% chance is that you will end up with a BPL person. This is an exaggerated example. I hope the chances within Jats is much better (;)), but point is you can't really know just from jati. You need to get it tested. Otherwise, it'd be a tad foolish to leave a person with known superior IQ or known good looks or known whatever just on the belief of unproven genetic superiority because of jati.

shivamchaudhary
January 16th, 2011, 02:35 PM
I think this theory "Marriage in same caste" came when there were disputes in tribes. Very old time. So every tribe wants to be more powerful.

In current time, this is not relevance (mostly), we can make our decisions about our life. Somewhat I think, what is missing the experience in youth. All old rules of society are made with high wisdom, and to save our identity. I believe in wisely said line "Love is blind" and thus divorce is common in now a days.

I have personal belief that love is two types. 1. @ first site, 2nd, habitual.

What mostly accepted in youth is first site and most of compatibility is over looked. When it comes to individual decision, as they have made in love marriage, family comes after the individuals. In arrange marriage, they have habitual love (more stable, I believe.) and responsibly of two families, as a social person.

I personally believe that attitude and skill which we have in our blood (called interests), should be seen major criteria rather then caste.

vikda
January 16th, 2011, 02:48 PM
I am not sure if I understand the relevance of points made by you. Sunil has nicely explained the logical fallacy of this argument. But my question is what's the relevance of societal dominance in a marriage? Before marriage, do people really go about thinking--- hmm, if I marry this person, I am going to really dominate the masses. Yeah, maybe in medieval history where kings made marital alliances to increase their sphere of influence. Maybe, some really "driven" people still do this. But what's the relevance to average Joginder?

And then if you genuinely want to choose a genetically superior mate, then I am afraid you are going about it in a completely wrong way. I mean, if you are really serious about it, you should get a full DNA mapping of your prospective partner apart from a comprehensive health assesment. Because the jati tag is no guarantee for anything. It has been scientifically proved that more than 99% of genetic makeup of all human beings is the same- derived from the first set of homosapiens in Africa. The 1% difference can account for lots of differences- from eye color to height and what not. But this 1% is then not some constant over a set of people like a jati. DNA mappings reveal totally surprising results- like some guy in Africa whose no known ancestor ever stepped out of Africa- had some Western European genes. In a geography like Northwest India that has seen all sorts of people come and go (I mean we still don't know if Jats came from somewhere or were natives), it'd be a bit naive to assume genetic superiority without checking.

And don't get me wrong. It is possible that "on average" Jats may have some genetically desirable traits. Afterall, we see a lot of Jats doing well in Sports. But "on average" is a very dangerous term. Like I may throw 9 BPL people and Mukesh Ambani in a room and say that the average wealth of this room is 5 billion dollars (Just making up numbers- 50 billion for mukesh, 0 for others. 50 divided bv 10 is 5). But if you randomly have to choose a partner from there, then 90% chance is that you will end up with a BPL person. This is an exaggerated example. I hope the chances within Jats is much better (;)), but point is you can't really know just from jati. You need to get it tested. Otherwise, it'd be a tad foolish to leave a person with known superior IQ or known good looks or known whatever just on the belief of unproven genetic superiority because of jati.

Well said Kapil (and Sunil).

prashantacmet
January 17th, 2011, 12:53 PM
I personally know a jat girl married to a chamar who is a Phd from MIT.
BTW, dhed jaati/janam se bante hai yaa karm se?
You don't know this..how funny you are? hahaha............By the way, How long you have been in India or particularly how close to your ancestors and village?

annch
January 17th, 2011, 06:31 PM
:)......Is name calling and dissrespecting accomplishments of others part of our ancestors and villages?

You don't know this..how funny you are? hahaha............By the way, How long you have been in India or particularly how close to your ancestors and village?

riyaa
January 17th, 2011, 07:49 PM
Well what i got from this long discussion is some how your status and qualification also matters, if your lover is earning good have a good status,then i think parents will think..is it so?

deependra
January 17th, 2011, 09:37 PM
Well what i got from this long discussion is some how your status and qualification also matters, if your lover is earning good have a good status,then i think parents will think..is it so?

Not necessarily, but if they get convinced that the choice is good and the person comes from well-to-do family they might rethink. It all depends on the parents' priority list; it may be looks, education, family status, caste etc. However, the best thing in those cases is to talk to the parents directly on the pros and cons of the alliance and should be ready to accept their decision. As parents also have dreams for their children, and we should not let them down. Our parents will always think of our good and considering their experience of life, society and all, we should respect their decision.

Arvindc
January 17th, 2011, 10:32 PM
Well what i got from this long discussion is some how your status and qualification also matters, if your lover is earning good have a good status,then i think parents will think..is it so?

Where did you find in the discussion that status and qualification also matters? It is insignificant when the question is whether to go for inter-cast marriage or not. There may be some exceptional nerds (<2%) who may want to go for inter cast marriage, just because of qualification and/or status.

Most parents, having seen life through most of the stages, will seldom give much ado to such an argument. As per scientists, genetics contributes upto at least 50% (same scientist even claim it to be the single most thing) to a person's personality traits. Environment - both common and external, parents upbringing, education, etc. all combined contribute to <=50%. Search personality traits and genetics on google to read some detailed studies on the subject. (http://www.google.co.uk/search?num=50&hl=en&&sa=X&ei=RHQ0TdipIo_QrQea5MSQCQ&ved=0CBoQvwUoAQ&q=personality+traits+and+genetics&spell=1)

People had been saying this "sanskar hone chahiye, padhai likhai to bad ma bhi ho ja gi" for ages, science has proved it just recently.

sunitahooda
January 17th, 2011, 10:38 PM
नसीरुद्दीन के गाने मै तो न्यू कह राखी है "दिल तो बच्चा है जी" किसकी साच मानने हम


Heart is an animal.

sunitahooda
January 17th, 2011, 10:46 PM
Riya this might not be the case in all cases. My parents found a match for my younger sister. The guy wasn't extraordinarily handsome but he was smart enugh to mtch with my extremely beautiful sister. But he was very career oriented and established himself so well that none of our relatives has that kind of money and respect that he earned. He was no where near as good as compare to our family in that time and we never regretted to take that decision. Status and money can be earned if someone has a progressive approach and realistic goals to achieve.

Wish to add- My few first cousins who were married out of caste are lot happier than those who married in their OWN caste, both the boy n girl has to have enough respect to each others traditions and family values:)


Well what i got from this long discussion is some how your status and qualification also matters, if your lover is earning good have a good status,then i think parents will think..is it so?

sidchhikara
January 17th, 2011, 10:47 PM
Hahaha !! .... itna jyaada soch vichaar. Soch vichaar karte karte umar nikal jaa gi ... jo badhiya lage uste byaah kar lo ...... baal ki khaal naa nikalya karein.

Shibani
January 18th, 2011, 07:57 AM
I think after going back and forth we are presenting the same facts in new packs.....it should be wise to conclude the discussion now by agreeing to the fact that the marrige is between 2 individuvals and their families and these are the people who can together make the best decision for all involved.

vikasJAT
January 18th, 2011, 08:56 AM
Hahaha !! .... itna jyaada soch vichaar. Soch vichaar karte karte umar nikal jaa gi ... jo badhiya lage uste byaah kar lo ...... baal ki khaal naa nikalya karein.

Sir ji aapki baat sahi hai......lekin apni north side me aapke vicharo k according koi ni chal sakta............
aapke in vicharo se apni Doga Brigade jo apne aap ko samaj rakshak bolti hai, vo ye baat samajh jye ki jo jise pasand kare shadi kar lo, to kuch bhala ho logo ka.
lekin aaj k time me jo bina caste dekhe apni marzi se shadi karta hai uske liye daily khap panchayat hoti hain aur last me jaan le k e picha chode hain.

vikasJAT
January 18th, 2011, 09:00 AM
Hahaha !! .... itna jyaada soch vichaar. Soch vichaar karte karte umar nikal jaa gi ... jo badhiya lage uste byaah kar lo ...... baal ki khaal naa nikalya karein.


aaj k time me north side me bimari, accident etc se kam mare hain lekin ye owner killing te jyda mare hain........

agar kuch ho sakta hai to is owner killing case ko puri tarah se khatam karna chahiye.......
is kaam me itne couples mare hain, fir bhi har dusre teesre din ek aur case samne aaja hai, Doga Brigade apna zor lari se aur ye youth couples apna zor la re hain........
aage bera na aur k k hoga...... per is kaam te pura system kharab ho liya.

Arvindc
January 18th, 2011, 12:30 PM
..it should be wise to conclude the discussion now by agreeing to the fact that the marrige is between 2 individuvals and their families and these are the people who can together make the best decision for all involved.

Well, at least in present scenario, marriage is a social affair for most people. If people want to make it a personal affair, then they should have the marriage function also as a private function. The problem is with some people who wants to sail on two boats by mixing the personal and community affairs.

Community is a group of the people, formed by the people. It is not a pool from where people can keep on drawing without contributing themselves. Unlike west, where their is good social security, community plays a lot greater role in India. Adopting an individualist approach, like western countries, is not a very viable approach in the current circumstances.

People are free not to follow the customs of a community, but then. it makes their moral responsibility that in that case they do not use the name of community for their personal gains.

Arvindc
January 18th, 2011, 12:43 PM
aaj k time me north side me bimari, accident etc se kam mare hain lekin ye owner killing te jyda mare hain........

agar kuch ho sakta hai to is owner killing case ko puri tarah se khatam karna chahiye.......


Agar aap kuch chote mote incidents ko itna pada rai ka pahad bana doge to aap samsya ko khatam karne ki bajaye badha rahe ho. The issue has been highlighted by media to bash the khap system and to divert people's attention from main issues which are corruption and bad governance. Why is media not following the cases of rapes, murder, fake encounters, environment exploitation, rising prices, food adulteration to the extent that it report these honour killings? Is it just for bashing the khap system or something else?

Since media itself is a part of and getting benefited from these much bigger social evils, it is choosing smaller, insignificant things to cover them up.

Shibani
January 18th, 2011, 01:09 PM
Well, at least in present scenario, marriage is a social affair for most people. If people want to make it a personal affair, then they should have the marriage function also as a private function. The problem is with some people having narrow thinking and think of themselves as too smart to use and discard the community at will.

Community is a group of the people, formed by the people. It is not a pool from where people can keep on drawing without contributing themselves. Unlike west, where their is good social security, community plays a lot greater role in India. Adopting an individualist approach, like western countries, is not a very viable approach in the current circumstances.

People are free not to follow the customs of a community, but then. it makes their moral responsibility that in that case they do not use the name of community for their personal gains.


Hi Arvind,
If you may read my response with little more depth and open mind you will find that I have mentioned both the individuals and their respective family coming to concensus. If all these parties involved come to concensus of going ahead with the marriage there are less chances of mistakes in the sense that the parents will consider bigger picture which the children might have not taken into consideration and that involves the question on society and community.

Arvindc
January 18th, 2011, 01:35 PM
Hi Arvind,
If you may read my response with little more depth and open mind you will find that I have mentioned both the individuals and their respective family coming to census. If all these parties involved come to census of going ahead with the marriage there are less chances of mistakes in the sense that the parents will consider bigger picture which the children might have not taken into consideration and that involves the question on society and community.

Shibani Ji, thanks for the elucidation! I got your point now.

Shibani
January 18th, 2011, 02:15 PM
Shibani Ji, thanks for the elucidation! I got your point now.

No worries Arvind its my pleasure.

Saharan1628
January 18th, 2011, 03:07 PM
riyaa ji nu batayo...aapke gel kimme rola ho rha hai kya shaadi byaah ka....Manne laage hai aapne koi dusri caste ka pasand kar rakhya se

Agar issi baat hai to Uncle Aunty ne aade JL pe register karwa do...Saare PM kar kar ke wo ladka pasand karwa hi denge

RAM RAM

riyaa
January 18th, 2011, 03:35 PM
riyaa ji nu batayo...aapke gel kimme rola ho rha hai kya shaadi byaah ka....Manne laage hai aapne koi dusri caste ka pasand kar rakhya se

Agar issi baat hai to Uncle Aunty ne aade JL pe register karwa do...Saare PM kar kar ke wo ladka pasand karwa hi denge

RAM RAM

thanks, uncle and aunty are not interested in JL..

Saharan1628
January 18th, 2011, 03:41 PM
But is it your personal problem or u just out-of-blue dropped this marriage bomb here...Its really exploding

riyaa
January 18th, 2011, 03:54 PM
But is it your personal problem

Thanks for concern but its not my personal problem.



or u just out-of-blue dropped this marriage bomb here...Its really exploding
Caste system is a curse, and there are numberless victims of this! it should be removed!

satyenderdeswal
January 18th, 2011, 04:31 PM
Caste system is really required..

Haan kati koi na milta caste main jab ki baat or hai (Matlab jiska byah e na hota ho)...

out of caste marriage is good for only two getting engaged, but not for there family most of the times.

And as much as i know, when you can get all type of qualities required in your partner in your caste, then why to look out.


And you will get more victims of intercaste marriage who cursed them selves on there decision after few years of marriage, which are unnoticed
Thanks for concern but its not my personal problem.


Caste system is a curse, and there are numberless victims of this! it should be removed!

VirJ
January 18th, 2011, 04:49 PM
Caste system is a curse, and there are numberless victims of this! it should be removed!

Jat is not a caste. Jat is an ethnic group/race. We dont believe in caste system and we dont have caste among jats. All jats are considered of same status even if they belong to different religion. Muslim, Hindu and Sikh jats used to live together before others spolied it for us. Muslim jats folklore heroes are still sung by Hindu and Sikh Jats like Abdulla Bhutti and Mirja Jaat. We consider ourself as one even our faith is different. Only a few ignorant differentiate among themselves. We Jats don't prefer to marry outside our own ethnicity and neither want out kids to marry outside our ethnicity. Inter caste marriage is different to inter racial marriage.

Nothing wrong if we marry in our own ethnicity. A man cannot change his ethnicity. How can you remove it?

Rimi
January 18th, 2011, 05:09 PM
Agar aap kuch chote mote incidents ko itna pada rai ka pahad bana doge to aap samsya ko khatam karne ki bajaye badha rahe ho. The issue has been highlighted by media to bash the khap system and to divert people's attention from main issues which are corruption and bad governance. Why is media not following the cases of rapes, murder, fake encounters, environment exploitation, rising prices, food adulteration to the extent that it report these owner killings? Is it just for bashing the khap system or something else?

Since media itself is a part of and getting benefited from these much bigger social evils, it is choosing smaller, insignificant things to cover them up.

i have heard about honor killings ... but owner killings .... is it some new concept or wat :confused:

Saharan1628
January 18th, 2011, 05:13 PM
guru jion aur guruni jion...mai jabbe te poocho tha ak yo personal problem hai ya nhi....
Can't really give a generalized answer to this thing and if it would have a person-specific one,then kinda specific answer could have been possible

eeb laage raho kisi ki bhains ar kisi ki poonch pakadan....er ustaadz koi answer nikle to bta diyo...

manne bhi byaah karwana hai...ke bera thaara koi resultant answer mere kaam aaja

RAM RAM

Arvindc
January 18th, 2011, 05:18 PM
i have heard about honor killings ... but owner killings .... is it some new concept or wat :confused:

It isn't something new but a spelling mistake. I should stop using the auto-correct option.

ravinderjeet
January 18th, 2011, 06:08 PM
Jat is not a caste. Jat is an ethnic group/race. We dont believe in caste system and we dont have caste among jats. All jats are considered of same status even if they belong to different religion. Muslim, Hindu and Sikh jats used to live together before others spolied it for us. Muslim jats folklore heroes are still sung by Hindu and Sikh Jats like Abdulla Bhutti and Mirja Jaat. We consider ourself as one even our faith is different. Only a few ignorant differentiate among themselves. We Jats don't prefer to marry outside our own ethnicity and neither want out kids to marry outside our ethnicity. Inter caste marriage is different to inter racial marriage.

Nothing wrong if we marry in our own ethnicity. A man cannot change his ethnicity. How can you remove it?


100 baataan ki ek baat
gadhey ne maari laat

sotey huey ko jagaa saktey ho
jaagey huey ko nahi jgaa saktey

inney sab kayaaen kaa beraa s vipin ,ye sab aapney sawaarth k anusaar aapnaa mat banaa le sein.

kusumdhochak
January 18th, 2011, 08:08 PM
Choosing a life partner is a very complex decision and lots of factors count. So one yes or no answer is not possible for such a question.
For someone, whose family is open minded and he/she knows that the family will accept/ love their spouse irrespective of their castes, a intercaste love marriage is as much a bliss as a within caste love marriage ( I really don't believe in the racial superiority factor).
While for someone who knows his/her family is going to trouble their spouse because of caste and it is only going to make everyone's life worse, one might compromise and chose to go the society way.

But whichever be the case, the more important thing that we should try to encourage is that people as a society should not go and trouble the families who are happy with their intercaste marriages.

My personal opinion is that families should support their kids' choice of life partner if they find that the kid has chosen a good person and try to forget the caste differences.
And in many cases, it is generally the societal pressure that the families are worried about while they personally might not have a problem with an intercaste alliance.

annch
January 18th, 2011, 09:14 PM
Agreed that Karm is above all.
BTW, my post did not relate Phd from MIT or IQ to Karm. It was about superior accomplishment of a person.

Karm is definitely above all. Phd from MIT/Harvard is neither a certificate of what 'karams' a person will do nor of an intelligent person (IQ is subjective). A look into the present will tell you the 'Karams' of Harvard/MIT pass outs. For instance, look at "Abhishek Singhvi" a Harvard passout, people know him more as a person who helped Dow escape its liabilities in Bhopal disaster then anything else. I won't call such a person 'an intelligent person".

pscil
January 18th, 2011, 10:06 PM
Jat ka hindu kya
Meo ka musalman kya
Adami ka khana kya
Aurat ka nahana kya

Jat have always opposed the caste system due to their democratic nature only the weak need a group to fight the brave Jats alone can do it no need for any caste system to prop them up

sunillathwal
January 19th, 2011, 12:55 AM
Thanks for concern but its not my personal problem.

Caste system is a curse...

Caste system is NOT a problem or curse, caste-based-discrimination is!!

It is human nature to associate himself/herself to (a) group(s). So, if someone flaunts his/her caste, why should this bother you? If the evils-of-caste-system is the propitiatory of Hinduism, why do Muslims (given that Islam have a concept of 'Ummah') have different sects (and they kill each-other quite often)? Christians also have different branches.
People will always find something exclusive to represent themselves. If it is not the Caste, it will be religion or geography or language or culture or food habits!!

Sometime back there was one article in The Hindu dwelling on this issue and author suggested that "we" should not use our surnames... it is wrong and what not!!

It is actually ironic that most liberals demonize caste-system (type of grouping), but find nothing wrong when people flaunt their religions (another type of grouping)!!

I mean, you talk about uniform civil code or demand a ban on full-body veil in public places or ban on turbans for certain jobs--- Bingo! you are fanatical anti-minority. But if you ask people not to flaunt their surnames/tilk on foreheads--- you are progressive!!


.... and there are numberless victims of this! it should be removed!


How is the caste-system any worse than religion as a 'social group' ?? Will you demand the removal of "religion" also?
If yes, what is next:uniform food habits? same attire for all? one language ?

BTW: Today, Caste-system is BENEFICIAL for so called lower castes who paradoxically claim to get the the wrong end of this stick!!

cooljat
January 19th, 2011, 11:08 AM
If I remember well this kinda topic has been discussed numerous times. But it's always good to read fresh new viewpoints every-time. Keep it up ~

Anyways, may take on this. I feel if you're going for arranged marriage, there's no question for going inter-caste here. You all aware of benefits of arranged marriage like family support, same brought up, same culture and above all same psyche of partners in general so its easier to adjust and balance. Waise bhi Jat ko Jat hi jhel sakta hai. :)

But in rare case if you're in love with some one from other cast/religion you must go for marriage provided if it's mature and real love not a short-lived infatuation. I know a few couples young and elderly who married in inter-caste still they are happily living and respect each other. But watch out these are rare cases and the love and bonding is real, they respect for each other and their culture. In most cases love marriages fall like anything as soon as their intoxication of love comes down and they regret n' find it hard to adjust. So be careful, If the love is real and mature then only one should think about going for love marriages.

Btw, on a flip side, Jat gene will always dominate despite of where you marry! :cool:


Cheers,
Jit

prashantacmet
January 19th, 2011, 12:28 PM
:)......Is name calling and dissrespecting accomplishments of others part of our ancestors and villages?
yes, it is. It's a part of every society, religion and every individual. "hatred" for others is buried deep in our heart at some level. It exists with every individual with different names as "caste hatred", "religious hatred" , "regional hatred", "racial hatred" and finally "individual hatred" no one is immune to this hatred disease. When this hatred comes out of slumber, you will end up with "calling names" to others. Simulation of a "individual hatred, you are driving down on a street and suddenly someone hit your car and run away, you will start muttering "kutta kameena harami" etc. I am not sure how many of us don't breach the "civilized line" at that situation but as per me most of us will be oblivious of this "civilized disguise" and hatred will take the driver seat.
Now coming back to calling names and our ancestors, "dhed", "geetal", "kirada", "haadi", "nokta" etc, are the words used for other communities in a frenzy of anger and frustration. So if a person is furious over other castes in the case of "intercaste marriage" and calling "dhed" it' s not a big thing ot it is like that everyone has to exhibit himself with only good traits in this virtual world no matter how malicious you are from inside?

VirJ
January 19th, 2011, 03:06 PM
100 baataan ki ek baat
gadhey ne maari laat

sotey huey ko jagaa saktey ho
jaagey huey ko nahi jgaa saktey

inney sab kayaaen kaa beraa s vipin ,ye sab aapney sawaarth k anusaar aapnaa mat banaa le sein.

Theek kah s Ravinder. Real life me kime aur kare he har kave he aade kime aur kave he. Kayi to ise technical he har aayi baat ka isa vishleshan(analysis) kar de he janu aadmi ek robot he har uske dil, emotion har samajik jaroorat aur jimedaari s hi koni.

riyaa
January 20th, 2011, 03:23 PM
Satyender Deswal:
And as much as i know, when you can get all type of qualities required in your partner in your caste, then why to look out.I am not revolting against the people those are agreed to marry in same caste,My concern is about the people those are forced to that emotionally, mentally or sometimes physically.


And you will get more victims of intercaste marriage who cursed them selves on there decision after few years of marriage, which are unnoticed

Suicide is better than a murder,same in case of marriage, if you are doing it with your choice whatever will be the result you will not blame anyone, and if you are forced to, and it goes wrong , there will be fractions between your near and dear ones! which never be overcome.



vipin
Nothing wrong if we marry in our own ethnicity. A man cannot change his ethnicity. How can you remove it? Agree with you, but i didn't said that you should remove it, I am saying boys n girls should not forced for marriage, let them make a choice, As i mentioned in my previous post.



sunillathwal :How is the caste-system any worse than religion as a 'social group' ?? Will you demand the removal of "religion" also?

If yes, what is next:uniform food habits? same attire for all? one language ?

BTW: Today, Caste-system is BENEFICIAL for so called lower castes who paradoxically claim to get the the wrong end of this stick!! Why i will demand to remove the Religion, as i said my only concern is, I want that peoples should not force someone to marry, let them make a choice and if you not like their choice the reason should not be the caste.

cutejaatsandeep
January 20th, 2011, 09:27 PM
nice1...bhai saaab haryane ke gaoo ke see to kee baaat hogiiii aaapaaa deelhi waloo ki dhaaaal fashionn nee kar saktee kee?aur aap bolo to naukri pee kurtaa pajama paaairr jayaa karu?

annch
January 20th, 2011, 10:19 PM
Yes, you are right. “Hatred for others” and calling names is done in a "frenzy of anger and frustration" by an individual who can be part of any religion or caste or society. These are not the characteristics limited to our ancestors or our community, but to an individual. Self control is just as genuine as giving in to primal behaviour. Self-control is genuine, that's why you can see its manifestation in spoken/written words and behaviour, just as you can see the manifestation of "genuine" basal behaviour. And, self control requires efforts as well, so it is understandable why it can be a little difficult for some people to follow it, and especially in the virtual world. The same people would learn self-control pretty well in professional life or else they would face negative repurcussions for their so called genuine behaviour in personal life and with strangers.

And, “hatred” and “anger” are not synonyms. If a person is angry with someone, that does not mean that he/she hates that someone.

In conclusion, it is all a matter of personal choice, and how you justify it all to yourself by calling it genes, ancestors, natural/genuine behavior, true identity, group identity, religion, caste…whatever makes you feel better about yourself.


yes, it is. It's a part of every society, religion and every individual. "hatred" for others is buried deep in our heart at some level. It exists with every individual with different names as "caste hatred", "religious hatred" , "regional hatred", "racial hatred" and finally "individual hatred" no one is immune to this hatred disease. When this hatred comes out of slumber, you will end up with "calling names" to others. Simulation of a "individual hatred, you are driving down on a street and suddenly someone hit your car and run away, you will start muttering "kutta kameena harami" etc. I am not sure how many of us don't breach the "civilized line" at that situation but as per me most of us will be oblivious of this "civilized disguise" and hatred will take the driver seat.
Now coming back to calling names and our ancestors, "dhed", "geetal", "kirada", "haadi", "nokta" etc, are the words used for other communities in a frenzy of anger and frustration. So if a person is furious over other castes in the case of "intercaste marriage" and calling "dhed" it' s not a big thing ot it is like that everyone has to exhibit himself with only good traits in this virtual world no matter how malicious you are from inside?

sunitahooda
January 21st, 2011, 08:19 AM
Anjoo n Prashant I feel the issue you are discussing is worth starting a new thread :) so lets discuss "Getting married in same caste" in this one and please start a new thread :)
Yes, you are right. “Hatred for others” and calling names is done in a "frenzy of anger and frustration" by an individual who can be part of any religion or caste or society. These are not the characteristics limited to our ancestors or our community, but to an individual. Self control is just as genuine as giving in to primal behaviour. Self-control is genuine, that's why you can see its manifestation in spoken/written words and behaviour, just as you can see the manifestation of "genuine" basal behaviour. And, self control requires efforts as well, so it is understandable why it can be a little difficult for some people to follow it, and especially in the virtual world. The same people would learn self-control pretty well in professional life or else they would face negative repurcussions for their so called genuine behaviour in personal life and with strangers.

And, “hatred” and “anger” are not synonyms. If a person is angry with someone, that does not mean that he/she hates that someone.

In conclusion, it is all a matter of personal choice, and how you justify it all to yourself by calling it genes, ancestors, natural/genuine behavior, true identity, group identity, religion, caste…whatever makes you feel better about yourself.

riyaa
February 19th, 2011, 12:17 PM
In conclusion, it is all a matter of personal choice, and how you justify it all to yourself by calling it genes, ancestors, natural/genuine behavior, true identity, group identity, religion, caste…whatever makes you feel better about yourself.

+5 for this, Sometimes i feel like other countries are better, than India, Well sorry if this line hurt anyone here, Infact i am a Indian and i love to be. just talkin about the way they think, Well i don't think they have hassle if teens over there wants to get married with the person they like! I know you guys be having many against answers beyond this but just think practically(about yourself only) aren't they good...

rakeshsehrawat
February 19th, 2011, 12:36 PM
+5 for this, Sometimes i feel like other countries are better, than India, Well sorry if this line hurt anyone here, Infact i am a Indian and i love to be. just talkin about the way they think, Well i don't think they have hassle if teens over there wants to get married with the person they like! I know you guys be having many against answers beyond this but just think practically(about yourself only) aren't they good...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW2tYiF5KyM
This is news of last week

spdeshwal
February 19th, 2011, 02:39 PM
Rakesh Bhai

Example cited by you is rare of the rarest. This discussion is about the behavior and practices in a social group as whole but not about the insane individuals.
Nevertheless, liberty and absolute freedom to choose is not free from its ill effects in foreign/ western societies. High teen pregnancy rate and very high divorce rate explain it all. Also, it has very profound effect on the mental health of the children from those broken relationships. Therefore, no society is perfect society. The system of arranged marriages under the supervision of family elders has its own advantage. In the similar manner, marrying in our own caste has its own advantages.



Cheers!

umeshkumarattri
February 19th, 2011, 03:13 PM
Every breed has his own quality, Jat is a human breed (nasal), after inter cast married you will get mixed breed children’s. When we cross our animals, we concise about the breed and try to cross our pet with same breed. After all we are humans, so need to think out coming generations.

upendersingh
February 19th, 2011, 11:55 PM
This is news of last week

Rakesh, this is not the new incident. In fact, this incident was revealed in 2008 in Austria shocking the whole world. But I would like to say that there are many incests there in west, in fact in whole world. When such guys see that their daughters are enjoying the boyfriend in adjacent room, then after the departure of the boyfriend they don't hesitate to ask their daughter that if she can do this 'good for health exercize' with the boyfriend then what is the problem in doing the same with him? In India, ***daars are defamed for it and it is said that ***daars don't like their wives to have illicit relations, but they don't have any problem if their daughters are indulged in bad relationships. I am afraid if they too don't have any hesitation. Mostly father-in-laws try to be incest with their son's wife. Ha...ha...ha...colourful world...:cool:

upendersingh
February 20th, 2011, 12:16 AM
By the way, here are some new ones:
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .............................

Father found guilty of all 83 sex crimes against daughter
Friday, 26 November 2010
A father in the Republic (Ireland) has been convicted of 83 charges of raping and indecently assaulting his daughter.

The 49-year-old man, who cannot be named for legal reasons, had been convicted on Wednesday of a total of 21 charges of rape, buggery and indecent assault.
Yesterday, the jury of seven men and five women at the Central Criminal Court, sitting in Castlebar, Co Mayo, found him guilty on all 62 remaining counts of rape.
He had denied all charges, which dated from 1986 to 2000.
In shocking evidence to the court, the victim, who is now aged 30, said that her father had first raped her when she was just five or six years of age.
She said in her evidence: "He told me, 'It's only going to hurt for a while. It's a game we're playing -- we can't tell your mother about it.'
Link (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/father-found-guilty-of-all-83-sex-crimes-against-daughter-15014126.html)
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ........................

'I've had a baby with my dad'
Thursday 23 September 2010 (Australia)
Jenny Deaves had always longed to meet her estranged dad, John. Her parents had split when she was just a baby, and her father was a stranger she knew only from photographs.
http://www.closeronline.co.uk/Assets/Image/080325_incest_lead.jpg
But the long-anticipated meeting with her father changed Jenny’s life in a totally unexpected way – they became lovers. Despite their affair causing a bitter family rift and the couple being charged with incest, they’re still together almost eight years on. Incredibly, they’ve had two children together and both remain unrepentant about their forbidden love.
Link (http://www.closeronline.co.uk/RealLife/Reallifestories/ive-had-a-baby-with-my-dad.aspx)
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ........................
German Brother & Sister Practice Incest!

http://sg.theasianparent.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/BrotherSisterIncest-150x150.jpgFor the past seven years, this brother and sister couple have been lovers. In that time they have had four children together – two of whom are mentally and physically disabled and all of whom are now in care.
Link (http://sg.theasianparent.com/articles/incest)
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...........................
Brother and Sister Caught Having Sex with Each Other
TRAFFORD, AL. - A brother and sister now face incest charges after being caught in the act of sexual intercourse by authorities. Both remain jailed on $50,000.00 bond.
According to police, Ronald Stewart Howze, 44, of Trafford, and Lori Ann Rotton, 41, of Smyrna, are identified as the siblings. Howze's wife suspected the duo of having sexual relations and called police when the two were in the bedroom together.
Upon arrival, authorities caught the two in the act of sexual intercourse and had to tell them twice to stop before they were finished. Both were intoxicated. Howze's explanation was that he "wanted to go crazy" after being diagnosed with cancer.
Link (http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=47675)
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .........................................

riyaa
February 21st, 2011, 02:27 PM
Every breed has his own quality, Jat is a human breed (nasal), after inter cast married you will get mixed breed children’s. When we cross our animals, we concise about the breed and try to cross our pet with same breed. After all we are humans, so need to think out coming generations.NASAL is what humans made, and If you compare all human beings have same features like each other, Now please don't link with animal breed kind of stuff, at least there should be some differences between humans and animals, Animals don't have brains like humans but humans do...


Father found guilty of all 83 sex crimes against daughterThis news is not a reason of a place or mentality If you turn some pages In India also there are many cases like it.



'I've had a baby with my dad'Now that's the thing we Indians object and they accept!



German Brother & Sister Practice Incest!I will still say not all, but sometimes some peoples are born animals, the thing is all about rituals and culture what they get they obey that, what we learn we do that.


Rituals and culture should be there, but only to a extent where they don't affect anybody's life!!!

rakeshsehrawat
February 21st, 2011, 02:42 PM
NASAL is what humans made, and If you compare all human beings have same features like each other, Now please don't link with animal breed kind of stuff, at least there should be some differences between humans and animals, Animals don't have brains like humans but humans do...

This news is not a reason of a place or mentality If you turn some pages In India also there are many cases like it.


Now that's the thing we Indians object and they accept!


I will still say not all, but sometimes some peoples are born animals, the thing is all about rituals and culture what they get they obey that, what we learn we do that.


Rituals and culture should be there, but only to a extent where they don't affect anybody's life!!!
Rituals and culture should be there
Every culture have guidelines and they need to be followed and if someone is following that then i don't think this will affect his life. If you don't follow it then only your life can be effected.
Even muslims say that if someone wants to become a muslim for sake of marriage then it is strictly probhited under islamic rules.

Saharan1628
February 21st, 2011, 02:43 PM
Change of discussion from getting married in same caste to having sex in the same family...
I just think that it's quite off the topic

shivamchaudhary
February 21st, 2011, 02:45 PM
Change of discussion from getting married in same caste to having sex in the same family...
I just think that it's quite off the topic

Yes, Pls open a different thread if somebody like to.

And please be on topic in you are writing in a thread.

akshaymalik84
February 21st, 2011, 02:46 PM
Rituals and culture should be there, but only to a extent where they don't affect anybody's life!!!

What's the meaning of Culture and religion if it can't influence an individual's life and soul?

Saharan1628
February 21st, 2011, 03:02 PM
What's the meaning of Culture and religion if it can't influence an individual's life and soul?
yup sir...totally agreed...but i think SHE meant affecting in a negative way and moreover Culture and religion ko aajkal constraints maana jaata hai..
Being rebellious and outlaw is being Modern now-a-days..and I saw Roadies auditions and this is the only thing I can grasp from that show

umeshkumarattri
February 21st, 2011, 07:00 PM
Every breed has his own quality, Jat is a human breed (nasal), after inter cast married you will get mixed breed children’s. When we cross our animals, we concise about the breed and try to cross our pet with same breed. After all we are humans, so need to think out coming generations.



NASAL is what humans made, and If you compare all human beings have same features like each other, Now please don't link with animal breed kind of stuff, at least there should be some differences between humans and animals, Animals don't have brains like humans but humans do...

Its true breed is human made, human is the social animal, A breed is a group of domestic animals or plants with a homogeneous appearance, behavior, and other characteristics that distinguish it from other animals of the same species. When bred together, animals of the same breed pass on these uniform traits to their offspring, and this ability—known as "breeding true"—is a definitive requirement for a breed.

The quailty of breed differ due to the genetic development process.

riyaa
February 22nd, 2011, 01:14 PM
Its true breed is human made, human is the social animal, A breed is a group of domestic animals or plants with a homogeneous appearance, behavior, and other characteristics that distinguish it from other animals of the same species. When bred together, animals of the same breed pass on these uniform traits to their offspring, and this ability—known as "breeding true"—is a definitive requirement for a breed.

The quailty of breed differ due to the genetic development process.

thanks for scientific analysis, GUYS TOPIC CLOSED..(Getting Married in Same Caste) And Conclusion I find is everything is right if it is approved Socially.

rakeshsehrawat
February 23rd, 2011, 03:58 PM
thanks for scientific analysis, GUYS TOPIC CLOSED..(Getting Married in Same Caste) And Conclusion I find is everything is right if it is approved Socially.

रिया जी एक सवाल था आपके ये क्रन्तिकारी विचार आपके घरवालो ने भी पढ़े हैं ?

riyaa
February 23rd, 2011, 04:16 PM
रिया जी एक सवाल था आपके ये क्रन्तिकारी विचार आपके घरवालो ने भी पढ़े हैं ?

Why you want to know that??And what krantikari, i am not fighting for freedom here, just presented my views on the things happening around like everybody doing here!!!

I am not revolting,This line show that
Conclusion I find is everything is right if it is approved Socially.

htomar
February 23rd, 2011, 07:56 PM
same caste or inter caste.it is not a social issue like same gotra marriage.it depends upon the boy/girl and his/her family.
1 song hai "kuchh to log kahenge, logo ka kaam hai kahna."
log to kahenge hi.same caste mai hoti hai shadi tab bhi unhe kuchh na kuchh mil hi jata hai kahne ko.
dowery ko hi le lo.ladki ke parents jyada de de to kahte hai ki demand ki hogi.naa aye jyada to kahte hai ki shadi na ho rahi hogi.

inter caste shadiya to ab gaon mai bhi ho rahi hai.even inter religion bhi ho rahi hai.


Conclusion I find is everything is right if it is approved Socially.

riyaa
May 9th, 2011, 02:34 PM
Check out this News, Atleast Coming Generation Will Not face Castism...


Haryana cops protect couples from honour killers (http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/story/haryana-cops-protect-couples-from-honour-killers/1/137531.html)

The story of a 23-year-old Bhupinder from Madina village in Rohtak is similar. He married Nikki, an 18-year-old girl from another village. The village community held that Nikki and Bhupinder were siblings because her mother belongs to Madina. It directed them to annul the marriage but the couple sought refuge at a protection home in Rohtak.

The police shifted them to an undisclosed location as the village kangaroo court plans a meeting to review the issue. Bhupinder said over phone that he had sought police help through court because no one would "accept them as married". Social activists say the data submitted by the government indicated the gravity of threat to young boys and girls who marry against their families or society.


The Haryana government also submitted before the court that 21 FIRs have been filed against 113 people since 2005, charging them with murders for honour.




1 song hai "kuchh to log kahenge, logo ka kaam hai kahna."
log to kahenge hi.same caste mai hoti hai shadi tab bhi unhe kuchh na kuchh mil hi jata hai kahne ko.


Agree Wid you Sir



ravinderjeet
May 9th, 2011, 02:44 PM
रीती रिवाज ना मानोगे तो फेर नु तो माडे दिना में सब घरां-ए काम चलान लाग ज्यांगे | फेर बियाह की भी के जरूत रह्ज्यागी | फेर तो बस अड्डे पे जो दीख जा ऊह के-ए गेल चाल पड़ेंगे | रोज नया सौद्दा |

kuldeeppunia25
May 9th, 2011, 04:23 PM
Still there are many families in India, wants their children to marry in their own caste, still people have orthodox beliefs,Do you think a guy/girl should revolt against his/her family to get married in other caste, in a situation when they both love each other.

there are not many but 99 out of 100 parents who wants their children to mary in same caste.In other caste like brahman,baniya,chmaar,balmiki etc. everyone want to marry their chidren in same caste.These are our good customs bound us to follow the same caste rule.If nobody wants that his daughter or sister has to marry in other caste then why only jaats are only on target of media and others for same thinking.In my point of view it is wrong to blame only our caste for the same.

on other hand i can't understand the working style of our khaps who are the thekedaarrs of our system and customs.
agar kisi garib ya kam latha alle ka balak yu kaam karde to ye thekedar a jave ge dhoti ka plla pakad ke.Ar panchyat me nyu bolenge janu to in ne kade makhi bi na mari ho. ar jab baat ave s lathdhariya ki yani kise takde admi ki ollad pe yu kaam ho jya to ye muh te chu bhi na kare kahvenge '' koe baat na balka pe galti ho e jaya kare ar ye te shyane s appe suljha lenge'' ar je bolan ki koshish kare to inke thobde pe lage.to bhaiyo apne beech me jo ye dhol posh s inte bacho. karmashhhhhh....

riyaa
May 9th, 2011, 04:55 PM
there are not many but 99 out of 100 parents who wants their children to mary in same caste.Agree with you kuldeep..


In other caste like brahman,baniya,chmaar,balmiki etc. everyone want to marry their chidren in same caste.These are our good customs bound us to follow the same caste rule.If nobody wants that his daughter or sister has to marry in other caste then why only jaats are only on target of media and others for same thinking.Getting married in same caste is not a bad thing, but what If, you love someone truly is from another caste??that time if you sacrifice, the coming life with new partner is just merely a compromise..According to parents they are right but If you go on youth they are also not wrong..As the same you can see in the above news i shared..

And only jats are targeted by media because of Records

The Haryana government also submitted before the court that 21 FIRs have been filed against 113 people since 2005, charging them with murders for honour.

OR

The media follow this a bad name is worse than bad deeds

VirJ
May 9th, 2011, 05:13 PM
By the way, here are some new ones:
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .............................

Father found guilty of all 83 sex crimes against daughter


Bhai upender ye isi isi khabar kit t laya kare he daaki

urmiladuhan
May 10th, 2011, 09:45 AM
synonyms of orthodox is mainstream

may I add "in Indian Culture"?

Regards,

Urmila.

urmiladuhan
May 10th, 2011, 09:48 AM
[QUOTE=Shibani;256677] I agree with Amit Ji specially in regards to providing kids with an open and friendly environment where kids can discuss all issues with no no inhibitions with the parents .
_______________________________

Very well said. :)

Regards,

Urmila.

urmiladuhan
May 10th, 2011, 09:52 AM
wives are very intellectual and smart, they find it hard to gel with the elders in the family.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________________
Amit jee- you have raised a very good point i.e., gel with elders in the family. This is important to keep the big family together.

Regards,

Urmila

urmiladuhan
May 10th, 2011, 09:57 AM
[QUOTE=vpsingh;256682] Therefore, it is always advisable to find suitable match within the same social group/caste which is always long lasting. There is a kind of social bond which protects the marriages within community if the marriage has the consensus of family. QUOTE]

Singh jee- very well said. I have seen ill matched people in arranged marriage but the arranged marriage lasts irrespective of the frustrations with each other.
My concern is the unhealthy environment that the children grow up in.

Regards,

Urmila.

urmiladuhan
May 10th, 2011, 10:03 AM
if parents support the child in intercaste marrg,the things are easier after marrg that increases the chance of good adjustment.

Well said Anusha!

Regards,

Urmila.

urmiladuhan
May 10th, 2011, 10:06 AM
Its totally depends on the two person how they handle the things and hou they are behaving with others after marriage.......

Sewa Singh Jee - very well said :)

Regards,

Urmila.

urmiladuhan
May 10th, 2011, 10:13 AM
Independent media is one of the core pillar of a vibrant democratic society. They are doing a good job of bring out the issues that are swept under the carpet in the name of 'culture'.

It is not about education, it is about 'awareness'. Education is an indication of knowledge but NOT the proof of it. Thats why we may have academically educated but socially/issue unaware people. Multi-level awareness for various stakeholders including parents, youngsters, execution mechanism (police, courts, etc), and society at large is needed.

So its about Awareness & empowerment (victims and enforcement people with law) and exemplary enforcement (create an example, strict punishment, strict enforcement, significant deterrent for potential perpetrators).

A society is usually what its members want it to be but it is also true that only select few provide the thought-leadership to the society most are followers. Very few provide reformative thought-leadership and those activists are the one to take the society forward in a progressive manner (as opposed to conservative, orthodox, thought-leaders who would prefer to have those youngsters killed for the intercaste alliances). Lets create positive, reformative, constructive and action-orientated thought leadership that can engage the masses (jats of hinterland), not just elite jats on internet with 'purist' views.

Vishal jee- very well written post. Very good ideas :) What stood out was that a marriage has 'various stakeholders' as you have put it, and not just the 2 people who are getting married :) Thank you for posting :)

Regards,

Urmila.

urmiladuhan
May 10th, 2011, 10:27 AM
I disagree that 'Love At First Sight' and 'Love Marriages' are one and same thing i.e. infatuation and short term ecstatic sentiments. Both are very different constructs. Love marriage does not necessarily equate to 'Love At First Sight'.

In order to investigate further, let use define the love marriage first so that we all can discuss things from a common base albeit with differing views. I am going by the following definition, all other FM (forum members) are encouraged to challenge or debate this definition and we can evolve or modify accordingly at later stages:
Love marriage entails a matrimonial alliance between two consenting adults, with or without the permission of their guardians.

I further propose to expand, yet set constraints around the definition of the love marriage in the specific context of Jat samaj of hinterland India.

Definition of Indian Hinterland Jat Love Marriage:
"A matrimonial alliance, with or without the permission of their guardians and at times wider jat khap society in case of taboo gotra are involved, between two consenting hetrosexual adults of opposing gender of any caste, creed, gotra, race and religion where at least one party belongs to rural or urban Hindu Jat community hailing from historical jat dominated hinterland of contemporary political entity of Republic of India.

Exclusions from the definition: For the sake of simplicity, I have chosen to exclude same sex relationships (not that those do not exist, to be discussed SEPARATELY, for the record Im a pro-gay hetro male), relationships involving jats moved overseas e.g. to a western country. These cases have peculiarity of their own and I suggest to discuss them in separate threads, if anyone is so inclined and if stakeholders of the site (members and mods included) are mature enough and deem it suitable to discuss such taboo subjects.

A recent doctoral level thesis <ref not provided> that studied the survivability of marriages by studying them on a longitudinal basis over multi-year span e.g. at the time of marriage, same couple were surveyed again after 5, 10, 15 and 20, years. The study concluded that survivability of marriage is influenced by few key factors, namely similarities between partners in terms of goals/life-vision/hobbies/shared-values/background, financial stablity, mutual communication and conflict resolution skills, etc. Shared culture is part of shared background hence it contributes to the shared background. But having same culture does not automatically provide sharing shared values, vision of life, hobbies and they more important for the survivability of marriage.

I will differentiate between Caste and culture. Caste does not have impact but culture does, to some extent but not as much as shared goals/vision/hobbies/background.

For example, a jat married to punjabi both hailing form dusty town (say Hansi or Meham) share more in terms of culture as opposed to Hansi-born-and-broughtup jat will ever share with another jat raised in Canberra. "Canberra Jat + Hansi Jat" couple will have less shared background including culture when compared to "Hansi jat + Hansi Punjabi" couple. Thus lesser chances of survivability of marriage.
Caveat: Study was conducted in the context of western cultures.


Interesting. lets take a look at marriage like a 'product life cycle' i.e. each product has a life cycle from design to hay days to obsolete. Another study that comes to mind was about happiness level of couple in marriage. Study found that happiness level is high in first 2 to 3 years and then drops rapidly initially and then slowly, peaking between 7 to 12 years (bulk of divorces happen around this time), this happiness level then gradually starts to pick up and restoring the same level of satisfaction at the time of marriage around 17+years. Those in old age, still married were found to be very satisfied. It is interesting to note why such fluctuation is happiness and mutual satisfaction level of couple from eachother in the marriage.

They are happy initially due to newness of relationship, younger age, lot to explore, less/no responsibility (kids, mortgages, etc).

It drops rapid when newness wears off, added responsibility of kids and mortgages, pressure from career (most are also in process of building their career, trying to move into mid level management, etc), less time for each other, higher stress levels, etc. Couples fight lot more around this time, differences becomes more prominent and tolerance reduces greatly and majority divorces happen around this time.

Then it starts to pick up again, its mainly because most couples have learn to deal with (even after adjusting for other variables e.g. career, financial conditions, responsibilities) each others idiosyncrasies for 3 key reasons (a) diff no longer exist and have found happy middle ground, (b) stopped caring about the diff and accepted the status quo and are at peace with status quo, (c) have enhanced communication skills, still have diff but communicate more and resolve better on case by case basis.

Taking a wholistic view of marriage within not just the caste but cultural context coupled with financial, personal and shared background is the key to better survivability. This is easier to understand when we accept that all marriages go through fluctuation over the life time, some of which can be generalized i.e. those who do not divorce even unhappy eventually become happy in the marriage as they find equilibrium with time.

सो बात की इक बात, अच्छी बुरी साब के गैल हो से,
खुद का खांदे हो, पैरां पे खड़े हो, तोह आपनी मर्जी की करो,
अगर माँ बाप घर परिवार आर समाज (not necessarily jat samaj but where you will live e.g. a western country) ने राजी कर के कर सकते हो तोह और भी अच्छी,

Vishal Jee - excellent post :)

Regards,

Urmila.

urmiladuhan
May 10th, 2011, 10:43 AM
[QUOTE=vdhillon;256696]I disagree that 'Love At First Sight' and 'Love Marriages' are one and same thing

(c) have enhanced communication skills, still have diff but communicate more and resolve better on case by case basis.

__________________________________________________ ______

Both the above points are quite valid :) Understanding where the problem lies is the key to correcting it :)

upendersingh
May 10th, 2011, 12:22 PM
Bhai upender ye isi isi khabar kit t laya kare he daaki


हा...हा...हा...भाई, इसके लिए पहले तो दिमाग में विचार आना चाहिए कि ये संसार नरक है और यहां कितना बुरा हो जाए कुछ नहीं कह सकते...फिर ये सोचना पड़ता है कि क्या ऐसा भी हो गया होगा इस संसार में...इसके बाद गूगल पर सर्च किया जाता है...तब ऐसी खबर मिलती हैं... जब यहां बातों ही बातों में ये खबरें मुझे पता चलीं तो मैं भी हैरान रह गया...मुझे इतनी उम्मीद नहीं थी कि इस संसार में कुछ लोग इतने भी आधुनिक हो गए होंगे...

riyaa
May 21st, 2011, 05:45 PM
Atleast this should not be done If you are fail to marry your love

11835

urmiladuhan
May 21st, 2011, 07:30 PM
Still there are many families in India, wants their children to marry in their own caste, still people have orthodox beliefs,Do you think a guy/girl should revolt against his/her family to get married in other caste, in a situation when they both love each other.

It depends on how long the 'love' has lasted? Few days, few years? The longer the duration, the more genuine it is and demands a more serious approach by everyone involved. Also, what is the maturity level of the 'love birds'? i.e., are they wordly wise.

Regards,

Urmila.

riyaa
May 23rd, 2011, 10:12 AM
It depends on how long the 'love' has lasted? Few days, few years? The longer the duration, the more genuine it is and demands a more serious approach by everyone involved. Also, what is the maturity level of the 'love birds'? i.e., are they wordly wise.

Regards,

Urmila.


I think urmila true lovers are blessed by God, And some how IF destiny don't allow your friend to be your life partner than we should accept it...I started this thread to know why parents prefer caste..but I don't suggest anyone to revolt against them..Love depends on age..13 to 19 just an attraction 20 to 24 it demands care after that "Saath"

bsbana
December 25th, 2012, 04:40 PM
Still there are many families in India, wants their children to marry in their own caste, still people have orthodox beliefs,Do you think a guy/girl should revolt against his/her family to get married in other caste, in a situation when they both love each other.
I think that caste is an important institution, in west people are suffering from alienation. Materialism and conspicuous consumerism have fragmented their personality. So I think Jat should not encourage dilution of their identity. Ethnic identity is an important aspect of human life. However after all, marriage is an individual choice and so is revolt.