Drawbacks in "system"

[VikrantChodhary]

All are invited to list DRAWBACKS in so called SYSTEM of Governance.

Hereby I list mine's :

1. Government of India GOI has only one policy towards FARMERS i.e. Cut Them Away From MARKET.

No MARKET means Poorness.

One can't get Loans to buy AGRICULTURE LAND. This Step makes city homes expensive. This is a city/Refugee oriented policy to widen the GAP between Villages & Cities. All Banks must be directed to give loans to customers for Agriculture Land buying at par with home loans.

Loan for Tractor is doubly at interest than for CARS ( CARS means Polluting Machines eating petrol and thereby Foreign Reserves of India )

Government should not decide rates of Agricultural Produce of Farmers. Lets Market Decides ( seeing INPUT COST )

2. JOBS in Government Sector Institutes are turning COTERIES of few ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICERS /their Subordinating CLERKS .

Clerk is more powerful than an engineer working in same factory of GOI. Reason- Clerk know details of files - files means evidence of wrong doings of Admin officers - Wrong doings means corrupt ways like superceding meritorious guy and getting their caste guy selected via interview panel.

IT should be COMPULSORY TO PUBLISH Merit list of all candidates with access to their Answer Sheets Xerox as well as mandatory to publish waiting list............kaun yaad rakhta hain 6 mahine baad........lets get our guy INN!! NO-WWW..

[Fateh]

Brother, frankly speaking there is no system in our country, how ever few points came to mind at this moment. Re-thinking on our constitution is urgently required, rule of law has to be established, transparency in all dealings, responsibility of each action, members of upper house of cent re/state must be elected directly by the public, no/minimum discretionary powers, the babu raj has to be abolished, re-stracturing of civil services, their role/powers/duties/responsibilities etc, is urgently needed, professionalism has to be revived, the post of chief of defense staff has to be created, all three services must work together, they must be free to take decision on matters of national security/war etc, appointments of judicial and election commission officials, their functioning etc must be free from the control of the govt, Authority must be constitution/law/procedure rather than an individual, even in the parade of republic/independence day the salute be given to the constitution by all concerns including the president, PM, CJ, SERVICE CHIEF, chiefs of all departments including the head of media, INSTEAD OF STATES ON LINGUISTIC BASES the country be divided into zones, religion, caste, criminals etc be kept totally away from the governing system, nationalism has to be developed, education system needs to be improved, spiritual education/self discipline has to be developed, no individual/organization/state be allowed to to do any thing with foreign coutries without the info/permission of the cent re govt.serious punishments be introduced for Anti national and economical offenses, media needs to be made responsible/disciplined/answerable, our revenue collection system needs improvement, our business class, entertainment industary and crecket must be controlled/made responsible/answerable/disciplined, For today only above, rest in next post, regards

[vicky84]

Brother, frankly speaking there is no system in our country, how ever few points came to mind at this moment. Re-thinking on our constitution is urgently required, rule of law has to be established, transparency in all dealings, responsibility of each action, members of upper house of cent re/state must be elected directly by the public, no/minimum discretionary powers, the babu raj has to be abolished, re-stracturing of civil services, their role/powers/duties/responsibilities etc, is urgently needed, professionalism has to be revived, the post of chief of defense staff has to be created, all three services must work together, they must be free to take decision on matters of national security/war etc, appointments of judicial and election commission officials, their functioning etc must be free from the control of the govt, Authority must be constitution/law/procedure rather than an individual, even in the parade of republic/independence day the salute be given to the constitution by all concerns including the president, PM, CJ, SERVICE CHIEF, chiefs of all departments including the head of media, INSTEAD OF STATES ON LINGUISTIC BASES the country be divided into zones, religion, caste, criminals etc be kept totally away from the governing system, nationalism has to be developed, education system needs to be improved, spiritual education/self discipline has to be developed, no individual/organization/state be allowed to to do any thing with foreign coutries without the info/permission of the cent re govt.serious punishments be introduced for Anti national and economical offenses, media needs to be made responsible/disciplined/answerable, our revenue collection system needs improvement, our business class, entertainment industary and crecket must be controlled/made responsible/answerable/disciplined, For today only above, rest in next post, regards

Very well explained!!

Indian Civil Services needs overhaul. Entire bureaucracy needs restructure.

[jakharanil]

it i correct thr is no system in... every thing is out of system... no system is our. system shud be change... hre who wants to change system tht will b parmanentally out of system.... BHAGWAN sab lo sad budi de... jai hind

[rakeshsehrawat]

सिस्टम की बात तें एक बात याद आगी भाई ! होया यु की एक कंपनी ने इ आर पि सिस्टम लागू कर दिया सबकी ट्रेनिंग होई सब सेट हो गया ! सारे राजी सारे पुराने कागज पत्रे इब नए सिस्टम में आगे ! जैसे ही सिस्टम के हिसाब से काम चालू हुआ तो कोहराम मच गया ! कारण की कई बार भाईचारे में दूसरी कंपनी का माल बिना कागज आ जाया करता या कदे कस्टमर भी जरूरत में बिना हिसाब /कागज के था ले जाया करते ! स्टोर अल कोणी तो प्रोडक्सन आले सामान ले लिया करते ! साँझ ने सब हिसाब करते अर डिस्पैच जाये पाछे बैठ के लिया करते ! सबेरे सारा स्टॉक मैच हो जाता ! इब कोए भाई पूछेगा इसका इस तागे तें के लेना देना ! या कोए ज्ञानी भाई सलाह देगा की उन ने इ अर पि लागू कारण तें पहलाम सबको ऐसे ढालना चाहिए था की वो सिस्टम कामयाब हो जाता !
यू ए हाल देश का है ए सी दफ्तर में बैठ के लैपटॉप के खटके खटर खटर करके जे इस देश का सिस्टम बदलेगा तो हम भी लग जावा ! समस्या या नहीं की हामने सिस्टम बदलना है या कानून को नए सिरे से लिखना है समस्या या है की क्या हम उस नए लिखे जाने वाले पोथे के अनुसार चल रहे हैं ? या हम जिस हिसाब से चल रहे हैं पोथा उस हिसाब से लिखा होना चाहिए ? आज हम अपनी तुलना विकसित देशो से करते हैं पर क्या हम में वो सलीके वो सोच भी आयी हैं जो उनकी है (यहाँ मेरा तात्पर्य उनके नंगे बदन या उनकी बुरी आदतों से नहीं है ) जैसे वो लोग पर्यावरण के बारे में बहुत सोचते और उसको स्वछ रखने के लिए काम करते हैं ! पैदल चलने वालो के लिए लोग अपनी गाड़ी रोक देते हैं ! ठुल्ले न हों तो भी कार में बैठते ही सीट बेल्ट लगा लेते हैं ! पैसे वाले भी नजदीक जाना हो तो साइकिल पे चलते हैं ! लोग कानून का पालन दर से नहीं आदत बना कर करते हैं !

हम सोचते हैं की हम सिस्टम को दोष देके अपने आप को निर्दोष साबित कर सकते हैं ! पहले लोगो को खुद को बदलना पड़ेगा तभी सिस्टम बदला जा सकता है !

[Sure]

सिस्टम की बात तें एक बात याद आगी भाई ! होया यु की एक कंपनी ने इ आर पि सिस्टम लागू कर दिया सबकी ट्रेनिंग होई सब सेट हो गया ! सारे राजी सारे पुराने कागज पत्रे इब नए सिस्टम में आगे ! जैसे ही सिस्टम के हिसाब से काम चालू हुआ तो कोहराम मच गया ! कारण की कई बार भाईचारे में दूसरी कंपनी का माल बिना कागज आ जाया करता या कदे कस्टमर भी जरूरत में बिना हिसाब /कागज के था ले जाया करते ! स्टोर अल कोणी तो प्रोडक्सन आले सामान ले लिया करते ! साँझ ने सब हिसाब करते अर डिस्पैच जाये पाछे बैठ के लिया करते ! सबेरे सारा स्टॉक मैच हो जाता ! इब कोए भाई पूछेगा इसका इस तागे तें के लेना देना ! या कोए ज्ञानी भाई सलाह देगा की उन ने इ अर पि लागू कारण तें पहलाम सबको ऐसे ढालना चाहिए था की वो सिस्टम कामयाब हो जाता !
यू ए हाल देश का है ए सी दफ्तर में बैठ के लैपटॉप के खटके खटर खटर करके जे इस देश का सिस्टम बदलेगा तो हम भी लग जावा ! समस्या या नहीं की हामने सिस्टम बदलना है या कानून को नए सिरे से लिखना है समस्या या है की क्या हम उस नए लिखे जाने वाले पोथे के अनुसार चल रहे हैं ? या हम जिस हिसाब से चल रहे हैं पोथा उस हिसाब से लिखा होना चाहिए ? आज हम अपनी तुलना विकसित देशो से करते हैं पर क्या हम में वो सलीके वो सोच भी आयी हैं जो उनकी है (यहाँ मेरा तात्पर्य उनके नंगे बदन या उनकी बुरी आदतों से नहीं है ) जैसे वो लोग पर्यावरण के बारे में बहुत सोचते और उसको स्वछ रखने के लिए काम करते हैं ! पैदल चलने वालो के लिए लोग अपनी गाड़ी रोक देते हैं ! ठुल्ले न हों तो भी कार में बैठते ही सीट बेल्ट लगा लेते हैं ! पैसे वाले भी नजदीक जाना हो तो साइकिल पे चलते हैं ! लोग कानून का पालन दर से नहीं आदत बना कर करते हैं !

हम सोचते हैं की हम सिस्टम को दोष देके अपने आप को निर्दोष साबित कर सकते हैं ! पहले लोगो को खुद को बदलना पड़ेगा तभी सिस्टम बदला जा सकता है !

Well explained Rakesh sehrawat Ji and let me say some thing more on the same, Those who are in system and supposed to be for traffic control are hiding to let traffic go out of control so that they can have their daily earning, those in system are for guiding people for their legal rights are misguiding them how to take an advantage of loop holes illegally and have their cut in doing so. Justice to citizens almost denied and specially to poor peoples(may justice come in time to at least 10% of peoples of our country, which is still a nightmare). Right from peon to clerks and upto senior bureaucrats of our country are only for misguiding peoples and their duty is how to use this system to make money. So the need of today is not only to bring change in the system but to change the whole system.

[vicky84]

हम सोचते हैं की हम सिस्टम को दोष देके अपने आप को निर्दोष साबित कर सकते हैं ! पहले लोगो को खुद को बदलना पड़ेगा तभी सिस्टम बदला जा सकता है !

Rakesh,

Mere hisab se ye Sarkaar ki jimmevaari pehle hoti hai ki wo system ko badle na ki logon ki. Logg to waise hi dhal jayenge jaisa system banaya jaayega.

For example,

Yadi sarkaar driving rules ko strictly apply nahi karegi to aap logon se kya accept kar sakte ho. Logon ko kya pata driving standards kaun se follow karne hai.

[JSRana]

हम सोचते हैं की हम सिस्टम को दोष देके अपने आप को निर्दोष साबित कर सकते हैं ! पहले लोगो को खुद को बदलना पड़ेगा तभी सिस्टम बदला जा सकता है !

भाई बहूत ही सही उपमा दी है राकेश जी | जब निजी कंपनियों का ये हाल है तो सरकारी तंत्र का क्या होगा ये सोच के भी डर लगता है | और जो आखरी बात " सिस्टम के सर दोष मढ़ के अपने आप को निर्दोष साबित करना" ये तो हम हर समय करते हैं | अब हर किसी का धेय पैसा कमाना रह गया है चाहे वो सिस्टम को अपना कर हो चाहे उसे तोड़ मरोड़ कर या फिर उसे अनदेखा कर के | दूसरा मैंने देखा है कि आज लोग सिस्टम या नियम को तोड़ कर अपने शक्तिशाली होने का पर्दर्शन करते है व गर्वित भी महसूस करते हैं | कुछ लोगों को इस से आनंद कि अनुभूति होती है |
वैसे तो यहाँ गाँधी नाम से सब असहज हो जाते हैं पर मुझे महात्मा गाँधी की वो तीन बातें याद आ रही हैं कि " धन गया कुछ नहीं गया, सवास्थ गया कुछ गया, और चरित्र गया सब कुछ गया" पर आज के सन्दर्भ में तो ये बिलकुल विपरीत सा हो गया लगता है | आज अगर हम यूँ कहें " चरित्र गया कुछ नहीं गया, सवास्थ गया कुछ गया और धन गया सब कुछ गया'" तो शायद असंगत नहीं होगा |

अंत में, सिस्टम चाहे कैसा भी हो ख़ास कर के हमारे यहाँ, जब तक हम अपनी सोच को नहीं बदलेंगे दूसरों को बदलना असंभव सा कार्य है |

[Dagar25]

जैसे वो लोग पर्यावरण के बारे में बहुत सोचते और उसको स्वछ रखने के लिए काम करते हैं ! पैदल चलने वालो के लिए लोग अपनी गाड़ी रोक देते हैं ! ठुल्ले न हों तो भी कार में बैठते ही सीट बेल्ट लगा लेते हैं ! पैसे वाले भी नजदीक जाना हो तो साइकिल पे चलते हैं ! लोग कानून का पालन दर से नहीं आदत बना कर करते हैं !

हम सोचते हैं की हम सिस्टम को दोष देके अपने आप को निर्दोष साबित कर सकते हैं ! पहले लोगो को खुद को बदलना पड़ेगा तभी सिस्टम बदला जा सकता है !


In developed countries, laws are very strict, People have no option except following them......our ppl are also human beings and not different from them except due to culture...in developed countries,the leaders are accountable to public.......here in india public is accountable for paying taxes but government is not accountable for giving the public amenities and decision taken by it. Also the most of system in developed countries is automatic. Most of jobs gets done by Machines.

Automakers are manufacturing cars but whether Govt. is providing necessary infrastructure???

PPl's thinking may change from time to time,place to place.........but if laws are strict and everyone is accountable to other...then the system would run smoothly........of course......nothing can be perfect in this world.......

[rakeshsehrawat]

In developed countries, laws are very strict, People have no option except following them......our ppl are also human beings and not different from them except due to culture...in developed countries,the leaders are accountable to public.......here in india public is accountable for paying taxes but government is not accountable for giving the public amenities and decision taken by it. Also the most of system in developed countries is automatic. Most of jobs gets done by Machines.

Automakers are manufacturing cars but whether Govt. is providing necessary infrastructure???

PPl's thinking may change from time to time,place to place.........but if laws are strict and everyone is accountable to other...then the system would run smoothly........of course......nothing can be perfect in this world.......
वैसे अगर हम देखे तो हमारे यहाँ नियम कानून विकसित देशो वाले ही हैं क्योंकि हमारे पास अपना कुछ नहीं है हमने सब मांग के ही बनाया है ! हथियार मांगे हुए, साबुन तेल पानी सब माँगा हुआ ! खैर अब बात आती है इंसानों की तो वो अलग हैं आप जापानी को अमरीकी को और एक यूरोप के आदमी को एक जैसा नहीं साबित कर सकते !कानून कल्चर नहीं बनाते समाज बनता है वही कानून भी बनाता है ! हमारी सोच गुलामी के इतने धक्के खा चुकी है की उसकी असली पहचान गुम हो गयी है ! खाली नेताओ या पुलिस के सहारे अगर चलना है तो इस देश में मिलिट्री राज लाना पड़ेगा (जिसकी वकालत मै कर चूका हूँ ) ! डंडे के सहारे जानवर को चलाना मुश्किल होता है हम तो फिर भी इंसान हैं ! आप सिर्फ ये बताएं की आप अपने बच्चो को अंग्रेजी सिखा के अंग्रेज बनाने की बजाये और कौनसी अच्छी शिक्षा दे रहे हैं !समाज को डंडे से नहीं चलाया जा सकता ! आपकी ये बात काफी हद तक सही है की कानून को अच्छे तरीके से लागु नहीं किया गया है ! हमारा देश विकासशील है और दुनिया की दुसरे नंबर की आबादी है हमारे जितनी गुलामी कम ही देशो ने देखी है और जिन्होंने देखी है वो हम जैसे ही हैं ! चीन सिर्फ एकमात्र ऐसा देश है जो हमारे मुकाबले हर चीज में है और आज़ादी के बाद हमसे आगे है ! वहां ये फर्क है की उन्हें फैंसले लेने के लिए संसद नहीं बिठानी पड़ती और पक्ष विपक्ष एक दुसरे पर कुर्सियां नहीं फैंकता !
सरकार यहाँ भी जरूरी मूलभूत ढांचा कंपनियों को बना कर देती है ! अगर आज से ३० साल पहले की बात करें तो यहाँ भी कुछ नहीं था ! दस साल पहले भी आज से दो तिहाई कंपनी नहीं थी और आने वाले २० साल में आज से दुगनी होंगी ! रोड बिजली पानी पर इस देश में भी काम हो रहा है ! एक सो बीस करोड़ की आबादी जिसमे से ४६% गरीबी रेखा से नीचे जिनके पास दो वक़्त के खाने के पैसे नहीं ! आप सव्चलित मशीनो की बात करते हैं तो वो उन लोगो ने इसलिए नहीं बनाई की उस से कुछ जादू होता है वो इसलिए बनाई हैं क्योंकि वहां मजदूर की तनखा बहुत ज्यादा है ! मैंने आज तक कोई जापानी नहीं देखा जो डिजिटल वेर्नियर इस्तेमाल करता हो ! हमें बदलते समय के साथ खुद को बदलने की जरूरत है आज देश में साक्षरता बढ़ रही है आने वाले समय में और बढ़ेगी इस देश की ६५% आबादी तीस साल से नीचे है जोकि इस देश को ताकत देती है आने वाले समय के लिए ! वहीँ विकसित देशो में ये आंकड़े उलटे हैं !हमारे यहाँ समाज को बस थोडा सा जागरूक और व्यवस्थित होने की आवश्यकता है ! ये होगा तो मंत्री भी लोग अच्छा ही चुनेंगे !

[Dagar25]

Bhai rake.........u have been to many countries.....I formed my opinion on basis of what i read, hear from others living abroad etc......i have never been out of india....so my perception about things abroad may be wrong........

I just know that one thing is missing in the Governance system of India............the word "Accountability".....everyone is accountable to other in democracy.........

........Public should have rights to hold these guys responsible for actions, decisions they take.......Everything should be transparent to public......The job of Governing should be very tough so that any looser cannot ask for ticket for election.
The Limit on campaigning exp. should be strictly followed as too much exp. during campaigning may lead to power in the hands of rich ppl.......also a person who has required capability and wants to serve country may get discouraged if he has no money for campaigning.

[vicky84]

वैसे अगर हम देखे तो हमारे यहाँ नियम कानून विकसित देशो वाले ही हैं


राकेश,

दुर्भाग्यवश, जैसा आपने कहा , वैसा नहीं है!

[kuldeeppunia25]

राकेश,

दुर्भाग्यवश, जैसा आपने कहा , वैसा नहीं है!


दुर्भग्यवश, कायदे कानून का पालन करने वाली मानसिकता भी नहीं है/

बाकि निर्मल बाबा की कृपा बनी रहे सब पर ,,,,,,:sleeping:

[rakeshsehrawat]

राकेश,

दुर्भाग्यवश, जैसा आपने कहा , वैसा नहीं है!
Bhai bata de kanoon kaunsa alag hai
bas usko lagu na kar pana keh sakte hain warna apko Ambedkar ya Hooda sahab ke gyan par itna bharosa nahi hona chahiye.

[vicky84]

Bhai bata de kanoon kaunsa alag hai
bas usko lagu na kar pana keh sakte hain warna apko Ambedkar ya Hooda sahab ke gyan par itna bharosa nahi hona chahiye.


राकेश,

कानून को कॉपी तो कर लिया लेकिन समय और परिस्थितोयों के अनुसार उसमे बदलाव नहीं किया. जहाँ तक आपका तर्क है हमारे यहां विकसित देशों का कानून है तो मैं ये कहूँगा की कानून तो सभी विकसित देशों में ही एक सामान नहीं है. तो भारत में कहाँ से हो सकता है. वर्ल्ड बैंक हर साल हर देश के कानून, नियम के आधार पर वहां पे बिज़नस करने की आसानी की सूचि निकलता है.और हर विकसित देश का रैंक भी अलग अलग होता है. जिसमे भारत काफी निच्चे आता है.

जहाँ तक समय के साथ कानून में बदलाव की बात है तो उधारण के तौर पर, भारतीय प्रशासनिक सेवा तो अभी तक अंग्रेजों के ज़माने वाले कर्यकलाप को फोल्लो कर रहा है. देश को आज़ाद हुए ६५ साल हो लिए, तो भाई आप उस्सी कार्यप्रणाली को लेकर चलोगे तो किसी की तो भोगना ही होगा उसका परिणाम. परिणाम भोगने वाली है जनता.


खैर टापिक बद्दा सै. धीरे धीरे और लिखूंगा भाई!

[VikrantChodhary]

भारतीय प्रशासनिक सेवा तो अभी तक अंग्रेजों के ज़माने वाले कर्यकलाप को फोल्लो कर रहा है. देश को आज़ाद हुए ६५ साल हो लिए



अन्ग्रेजा के चुने होड़ आदम्मी ख़ास होया करदे , कुछ हटके बात हुया करदी उनमें , खैर कोए न्यू बता सके से के पंडता/शर्मा ते क्यूकर इन् अन्ग्रेजा ने कूण मैं लाह राख्या था ?

[vicky84]

Further to my last post about Indian Civil Services, I would like to quote few lines from TOI :


While it might be convenient for civil service aspirants to appear for a single examination that is used to pick recruits for some 20-odd services, it makes little sense from the point of view of the recruiter, that is the government. The exams, as they currently are, cover services as diverse as the IAS, IPS, IFS, the Indian Corporate Law Service, the Indian Ordinance Factories Service and the Indian Railway Traffic Service, to name only a few. Clearly, the skill sets required for someone in the diplomatic service and for those joining various accounts services are very different. Ideally, therefore, the services should be grouped according to skill sets and exams conducted to test each of these skill sets separately.

[ygulia]

Ye desh abhi tak jo baccha hua wo kucch imandar civil servants ki vajah sei baccha hua hai varna poltician nei to barbaad kar rakha hai................


Further to my last post about Indian Civil Services, I would like to quote few lines from TOI :


While it might be convenient for civil service aspirants to appear for a single examination that is used to pick recruits for some 20-odd services, it makes little sense from the point of view of the recruiter, that is the government. The exams, as they currently are, cover services as diverse as the IAS, IPS, IFS, the Indian Corporate Law Service, the Indian Ordinance Factories Service and the Indian Railway Traffic Service, to name only a few. Clearly, the skill sets required for someone in the diplomatic service and for those joining various accounts services are very different. Ideally, therefore, the services should be grouped according to skill sets and exams conducted to test each of these skill sets separately.

[Fateh]

Ye desh abhi tak jo baccha hua wo kucch imandar civil servants ki vajah sei baccha hua hai varna poltician nei to barbaad kar rakha hai................
Gulia sahab, this country is run by civil servants only, but most of the politicians are made corrupt by these actual rulers, the work is done by the lower staff/clerks and the power, wealth, name, fame, etc is enjoyed by the so called civil servants and politicians and public suffers

[ygulia]

Very good analysis and good thinking as well. We need to exploit those resources and a lit bit organise ourselves.


वैसे अगर हम देखे तो हमारे यहाँ नियम कानून विकसित देशो वाले ही हैं क्योंकि हमारे पास अपना कुछ नहीं है हमने सब मांग के ही बनाया है ! हथियार मांगे हुए, साबुन तेल पानी सब माँगा हुआ ! खैर अब बात आती है इंसानों की तो वो अलग हैं आप जापानी को अमरीकी को और एक यूरोप के आदमी को एक जैसा नहीं साबित कर सकते !कानून कल्चर नहीं बनाते समाज बनता है वही कानून भी बनाता है ! हमारी सोच गुलामी के इतने धक्के खा चुकी है की उसकी असली पहचान गुम हो गयी है ! खाली नेताओ या पुलिस के सहारे अगर चलना है तो इस देश में मिलिट्री राज लाना पड़ेगा (जिसकी वकालत मै कर चूका हूँ ) ! डंडे के सहारे जानवर को चलाना मुश्किल होता है हम तो फिर भी इंसान हैं ! आप सिर्फ ये बताएं की आप अपने बच्चो को अंग्रेजी सिखा के अंग्रेज बनाने की बजाये और कौनसी अच्छी शिक्षा दे रहे हैं !समाज को डंडे से नहीं चलाया जा सकता ! आपकी ये बात काफी हद तक सही है की कानून को अच्छे तरीके से लागु नहीं किया गया है ! हमारा देश विकासशील है और दुनिया की दुसरे नंबर की आबादी है हमारे जितनी गुलामी कम ही देशो ने देखी है और जिन्होंने देखी है वो हम जैसे ही हैं ! चीन सिर्फ एकमात्र ऐसा देश है जो हमारे मुकाबले हर चीज में है और आज़ादी के बाद हमसे आगे है ! वहां ये फर्क है की उन्हें फैंसले लेने के लिए संसद नहीं बिठानी पड़ती और पक्ष विपक्ष एक दुसरे पर कुर्सियां नहीं फैंकता !
सरकार यहाँ भी जरूरी मूलभूत ढांचा कंपनियों को बना कर देती है ! अगर आज से ३० साल पहले की बात करें तो यहाँ भी कुछ नहीं था ! दस साल पहले भी आज से दो तिहाई कंपनी नहीं थी और आने वाले २० साल में आज से दुगनी होंगी ! रोड बिजली पानी पर इस देश में भी काम हो रहा है ! एक सो बीस करोड़ की आबादी जिसमे से ४६% गरीबी रेखा से नीचे जिनके पास दो वक़्त के खाने के पैसे नहीं ! आप सव्चलित मशीनो की बात करते हैं तो वो उन लोगो ने इसलिए नहीं बनाई की उस से कुछ जादू होता है वो इसलिए बनाई हैं क्योंकि वहां मजदूर की तनखा बहुत ज्यादा है ! मैंने आज तक कोई जापानी नहीं देखा जो डिजिटल वेर्नियर इस्तेमाल करता हो ! हमें बदलते समय के साथ खुद को बदलने की जरूरत है आज देश में साक्षरता बढ़ रही है आने वाले समय में और बढ़ेगी इस देश की ६५% आबादी तीस साल से नीचे है जोकि इस देश को ताकत देती है आने वाले समय के लिए ! वहीँ विकसित देशो में ये आंकड़े उलटे हैं !हमारे यहाँ समाज को बस थोडा सा जागरूक और व्यवस्थित होने की आवश्यकता है ! ये होगा तो मंत्री भी लोग अच्छा ही चुनेंगे !

[dahiyavijay7]

Rakesh,

Mere hisab se ye Sarkaar ki jimmevaari pehle hoti hai ki wo system ko badle na ki logon ki. Logg to waise hi dhal jayenge jaisa system banaya jaayega.

For example,

Yadi sarkaar driving rules ko strictly apply nahi karegi to aap logon se kya accept kar sakte ho. Logon ko kya pata driving standards kaun se follow karne hai.
It is very correct sir. Once I was listening radio program in which Chief Election Commissioner of india stated that people/politician call the bureaucracy as corrupt, incapable and inefficient. The bureaucracy which never complete any task within deadlines, conducts the election of the country in fair and efficient manner under the supervision of Election Commission. How it is possible? It only reflects that the problem is not with the bureaucracy but with the government. During election, the staff member do not take Rs 100/-person for casting votes. One may never find any case that government official took bribe from the candidate for providing help in the elections. If the lower clerks are corrupt then how it is prevented during election?

[dahiyavijay7]

Gulia sahab, this country is run by civil servants only, but most of the politicians are made corrupt by these actual rulers, the work is done by the lower staff/clerks and the power, wealth, name, fame, etc is enjoyed by the so called civil servants and politicians and public suffers
The IPS killed in Chattisgarh was also civil servant. He tried to put a tab on corruption against the will of political power and he was killed. It seems that you have no about the working of bureaucracy. The civil servants only provide the means as per the direction of politicians. A clerk has no authority of any kind. Only officers do have authority. Further, there are thousands kind of audit in Govt department, it is ridiculous to assume that a clerk can flex rules. The rules are flexed as the controlling officer direct them and the clerk has to follow every direction of officer. Further, the auditors come to offices only to make money. They harass the honest workers and take bribe from the corrupt people

[dahiyavijay7]

Gulia sahab, this country is run by civil servants only, but most of the politicians are made corrupt by these actual rulers, the work is done by the lower staff/clerks and the power, wealth, name, fame, etc is enjoyed by the so called civil servants and politicians and public suffers

If officer do not allow, a clerk can not take a single penny. How a clerk could be corrupt, if he has not authority of any kind. lower staff/clerks are servants of officer. The officer is paid such high salary to supervise everyday working of officials subordinate to him. A clerk could never delay any work, if the officer do not want. In fact the work is delayed because the only work given to officer to put their signature on paper takes upto several months out of no reason.
There is so much authority entrusted to officers that they can even rape the subordinates, by showing the fear of disciplinary action. The words of officers are treated as hard fact and evidences against subordinates and any fact provides by the official could be dismissed. The inaction against the corrupt people makes it clear that share of bribe reach to the highest quarter.

[dahiyavijay7]

राकेश,

कानून को कॉपी तो कर लिया लेकिन समय और परिस्थितोयों के अनुसार उसमे बदलाव नहीं किया. जहाँ तक आपका तर्क है हमारे यहां विकसित देशों का कानून है तो मैं ये कहूँगा की कानून तो सभी विकसित देशों में ही एक सामान नहीं है. तो भारत में कहाँ से हो सकता है. वर्ल्ड बैंक हर साल हर देश के कानून, नियम के आधार पर वहां पे बिज़नस करने की आसानी की सूचि निकलता है.और हर विकसित देश का रैंक भी अलग अलग होता है. जिसमे भारत काफी निच्चे आता है.

जहाँ तक समय के साथ कानून में बदलाव की बात है तो उधारण के तौर पर, भारतीय प्रशासनिक सेवा तो अभी तक अंग्रेजों के ज़माने वाले कर्यकलाप को फोल्लो कर रहा है. देश को आज़ाद हुए ६५ साल हो लिए, तो भाई आप उस्सी कार्यप्रणाली को लेकर चलोगे तो किसी की तो भोगना ही होगा उसका परिणाम. परिणाम भोगने वाली है जनता.


खैर टापिक बद्दा सै. धीरे धीरे और लिखूंगा भाई!
देश को चलाने के लिए क़ानून के कोई जरुरत नहीं है बल्कि जरुरत है इमानदार और योग्य नेताओं की | देश में कौन से कानून के कमी है जो और क़ानून चाहिए | अक्सर लोग कहते हैं क़ानून कमजोर है भ्रष्ट और आतंकवादी लोग बच जाते हैं | दुर्भाग्य तो ये है के इन्ही कमजोर कानूनों के मार से आम आदमी जरूर डरता और भागता फिरता है | आपके खिलाफ अगर कोई झूटी भी शिकायत पुलिस को कर दे तो आपको पता चले के पुलिस के सिपाही के पास क्या पॉवर है | पुलिस सड़क पर किसी भी आदमी को कुत्ते के तरह मार सकती है फिर भी कसाब जैसे लोगों के सेवा पानी हो रही है | ये कानून की कमी नहीं है बल्कि political will ki कमी है

[vicky84]

It is very correct sir. Once I was listening radio program in which Chief Election Commissioner of india stated that people/politician call the bureaucracy as corrupt, incapable and inefficient. The bureaucracy which never complete any task within deadlines, conducts the election of the country in fair and efficient manner under the supervision of Election Commission. How it is possible? It only reflects that the problem is not with the bureaucracy but with the government. During election, the staff member do not take Rs 100/-person for casting votes. One may never find any case that government official took bribe from the candidate for providing help in the elections. If the lower clerks are corrupt then how it is prevented during election?

Friend,

I would like to draw your attention towards an article below:


http://www.economist.com/node/10804248?story_id=10804248 (If you have time, please read it)

Some key points from the article:



A IAS officer works 16 hours a day, seven days a week, and reckons he has had two days off since 2003. But this is hardly an efficient way to minister to a needy population almost half the size of New Zealand's.





Indeed, all India's administration is inefficient. According to the Congress-led government's own estimate, most development spending fails to reach its intended recipients. Instead it is sponged up, or siphoned off, by a vast, tumorous bureaucracy. That is why, despite India's commitment to universal health care, water and education, only five countries have a lower portion of health spending in the public sector; over half of urban children are educated privately; and nearly all investment in irrigation is private. Under stress of tube-wells and a four-year drought, the water table in Jalaun has fallen by up to 15 metres. Despite the proximity of two great rivers, only 40% of the district is irrigated; no canal has been dug since colonial times. As the harvest approaches, over half of Jalaun's peasant inhabitants are growing nothing.





Some economists see India's malfunctioning public sector as its biggest obstacle to growth. Lant Pritchett, of the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard, calls it “one of the world's top ten biggest problems—of the order of AIDS and climate change”.





Including railway workers, who comprise one of the world's biggest payrolls, India's central government employs around 3m civil servants and the states another 7m. They include vast armies of paper-shuffling peons. The number of senior “Category One” bureaucrats—broadly speaking, “decision-makers”, according to Satyananda Mishra, boss of the Department of Personnel and Training (DPT), which runs the civil service—is only 80,000. And the elite IAS, which mostly runs India, numbers a mere 5,600.





Yet the steel frame has now become a serious bind on badly needed reforms. As the author of a typical recent IAS history and former mandarin, Sanjoy Bagchi, puts it: “Overwhelmed by the constant feed of adulatory ambrosia, the maturing entrant tends to lose his head and balance. The diffident youngster of early idealistic years, in course of time, is transformed into an arrogant senior fond of throwing his weight around; he becomes a conceited prig.”






For general administration, Mr Samphel, whose collectorate contains not one computer, has an annual budget of $22.5m.






The collectors' other great burden—overseeing the design and management of massive welfare and development projects—is one the IAS was never designed for, and by and large performs abysmally. Mr Samphel, for example, oversees the spending of another $25m on 30-odd welfare programmes. Over the past year he has doled out $14m for a charitable ditch-digging project, the National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme (NREGS), which is to be spread across India this year. As the drought bites, he has requested another $13m for this project; it has yet to arrive.

[vicky84]

देश को चलाने के लिए क़ानून के कोई जरुरत नहीं है बल्कि जरुरत है इमानदार और योग्य नेताओं की | देश में कौन से कानून के कमी है जो और क़ानून चाहिए | अक्सर लोग कहते हैं क़ानून कमजोर है भ्रष्ट और आतंकवादी लोग बच जाते हैं | दुर्भाग्य तो ये है के इन्ही कमजोर कानूनों के मार से आम आदमी जरूर डरता और भागता फिरता है | आपके खिलाफ अगर कोई झूटी भी शिकायत पुलिस को कर दे तो आपको पता चले के पुलिस के सिपाही के पास क्या पॉवर है | पुलिस सड़क पर किसी भी आदमी को कुत्ते के तरह मार सकती है फिर भी कसाब जैसे लोगों के सेवा पानी हो रही है | ये कानून की कमी नहीं है बल्कि political will ki कमी है

Friend,

Please read the article:

Indian bureaucracy – the most inefficient?
http://asiancorrespondent.com/33289/indian-bureaucracy-%E2%80%93-the-most-inefficient/

More :

India has the most inefficient bureaucracy in Asia, according to an expat survey.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/expatnews/7801030/Red-tape-in-India-causes-problems-for-expats.html

[Fateh]

The IPS killed in Chattisgarh was also civil servant. He tried to put a tab on corruption against the will of political power and he was killed. It seems that you have no about the working of bureaucracy. The civil servants only provide the means as per the direction of politicians. A clerk has no authority of any kind. Only officers do have authority. Further, there are thousands kind of audit in Govt department, it is ridiculous to assume that a clerk can flex rules. The rules are flexed as the controlling officer direct them and the clerk has to follow every direction of officer. Further, the auditors come to offices only to make money. They harass the honest workers and take bribe from the corrupt people
A) Do you think all civil servants are like this man
B) Do you think that in this country you only know about the working of bureaucracy
C) Yes I also say that they only provide all means for corruption
D) Yes poor clerk has only responsibility to work, knowledge of the work and accept blame if required, authority is with officers only
E) The fact is the so called real rulers has no knowledge, no interest and no time for public good/work

[vicky84]

A must read book for everyone (Highly Recommended) :

Download this book from the following Link:

http://sanjeev.sabhlokcity.com/book1/BFN-fullbook.pdf

About Author : Sanjeev Sabhlok (http://sanjeev.sabhlokcity.com/) joined the Indian Administrative Service in 1982 and later took a doctorate in economics from the University of Southern California.
He resigned from the IAS in January 2001 to foster reforms in India. He currently works in the Australian public sector. In his spare time he works on building a political reform movement in India.

Sanjeev's book, Breaking Free of Nehru, which is essentially a political pamphlet, highlights India’s disastrous experiment with socialism. It proposes a way forward (Freedom Team of India (http://freedomteam.in/)) for India to become a great nation with freedom and ethical governance.

[ravinderjeet]

भाई आतिश आज के जमाने में ये कागजी घोड़े ( फ्रीडम टीम आफ इंडिया,अन्ना आन्दोलन , रामदेव आन्दोलन ) भजा के ने कोए काम कोणी बने | आज आपणा देश ही नहीं पूरी दुनिया हरामखोरों,सट्टेबाजों ,तस्करों ,आतंकवादिओं और दुष्ट चमचों के जाल में पूरी तरह फंश चुकी हे | जब ताहीं कम तें कम राष्ट्रीय स्तर पे हथियार बंद क्रान्ति नि होवेगी अर इससे माणसआँ का सामूहिक वध नहीं होवेगा किम्मे भी नि होणा | सपने चाहे किम्मे लियें जाओ | हर साल सेकड़ों इमानदार अफसरों का कत्ल कर दिया जाता हे | और हजारों तबादलों के चक्कर में अपनी सर्विस बिना कुछ काम किये पूरी कर जाते हैं | पूरा तंत्र भ्र्स्ठों के साथ खडा हे और खुद भ्रस्ठ हे |

[vicky84]

भाई आतिश आज के जमाने में ये कागजी घोड़े ( फ्रीडम टीम आफ इंडिया,अन्ना आन्दोलन , रामदेव आन्दोलन ) भजा के ने कोए काम कोणी बने | आज आपणा देश ही नहीं पूरी दुनिया हरामखोरों,सट्टेबाजों ,तस्करों ,आतंकवादिओं और दुष्ट चमचों के जाल में पूरी तरह फंश चुकी हे | जब ताहीं कम तें कम राष्ट्रीय स्तर पे हथियार बंद क्रान्ति नि होवेगी अर इससे माणसआँ का सामूहिक वध नहीं होवेगा किम्मे भी नि होणा | सपने चाहे किम्मे लियें जाओ | हर साल सेकड़ों इमानदार अफसरों का कत्ल कर दिया जाता हे | और हजारों तबादलों के चक्कर में अपनी सर्विस बिना कुछ काम किये पूरी कर जाते हैं | पूरा तंत्र भ्र्स्ठों के साथ खडा हे और खुद भ्रस्ठ हे |


रविंदर भाई,

मैं आपकी बात से सहमत हूँ की देश आज भ्रष्ट नेता, माफिया, गुंडे लोगों के चंगुल में फस चूका है लेकिन ये जानना भी जरूरी है के ऐसा हुआ कैसे. देश जब आज़ाद हुआ तो उसके बाद हमारे पास बेहतरीन मौका था कुछ करने का. लेकिन हमने ऐसा क्या गलत किया जिसके कारण आज ये सब देखने को मिल रहा है. अँगरेज़ लोग हमसे आगे क्यों निकल गए. इस किताब को लिखने वाला व्यक्ति एक आईएस ऑफिसर था. उसने इस नौकरी को ठुकरा दिया जब उससे ये पता चला की वो एक भ्रष्ट सिस्टम को चलाने में मदद कर रहा है. फिर इस व्यक्ति ने कोशिस भी की सिस्टम को badalne की लेकिन कोई खास सफलता हाथ नहीं लगी. फिर इस व्यक्ति ने ऑस्ट्रेलिया की प्रशासनिक सेवा में काम किया. यहाँ बहुत कुछ सिखा और अपने आईएस के १८ साल के अनुभव और एक विकसित देश के अनुभव से निष्कर्ष निकला के कमी कहाँ है. संजीव जी अभी भी यही प्रयाश कर रहे हैं की कैसा लोगों को जगाया जाए की वत्स्विकता क्या है. वो और उनके जैसे वाली सोच के कई और लोग "Freedom Team Of India" के द्वारा देश में बदलाव लाने की कोशिस कर रहे हैं. ये रामदेव जैसे ठग लोग नहीं है. मोघे तो बिलकुल भी नहीं लगा इनके विचार पढ़ कर. जो भी मैंने अभी तक सिखा है और जो मेरी जानकारी है उसके आधार पर मेरा इन लोगों को पूरण समर्थन है.


मैं आपसे भी अनुरोध करता हूँ की एक बार इनके विचार तो पढ़ें

[rakeshsehrawat]

पंद्रह हजार किलोमीटर से लोग भारत की जनता को जगा रहे हैं ! डॉलर मिल रहे हैं कमाई में तो सबने बढ़िया बढ़िया बात आ जया हैं!घाम में धक्के खाके कोए न हांडता एजुकेट इंडिया करता ! भाई दूर बैठ के मैच का आनंद लेना बहुत आसान है बाल किस स्पीड से आ रही है ये सिर्फ खेलने वाला ही जानता है! पहले मुगलों की फिर अंग्रेज आये व्यापारी बनकर और इस देश पर हुकूमत करने लगे !आज़ादी के टाइम को तो आप ऐसे गिना रहे हैं मानो भारत उस वक़्त सोने से लदा हुआ था ! सबसे देश का विभाजन चाहे किसी की महत्वाकांक्षा हो या लम्बे समय का एक diplomatic फैंसला पर वो वाकई एक मुश्किल घडी रही होगी दोनों देशो के लिए ! सोच के देखो की किसी देश के टुकड़े हो रहे हैं जोकि सैंकड़ो सालो से गुलाम था और जिसके पास रोजी रोजगार का कोई साधन नहीं ! उस वक़्त आप भूल कर भी विदेशियों की मदद नहीं मांग सकते थे ऍफ़ डी आई के बारे में सोचना भी गुनाह था ! देश की आबादी बहुत बड़ी थी और खेती बाड़ी की आमदनी कम यहाँ तक की अपना पेट भरने का भी अन्न हम उत्पन्न नहीं करते थे ! हथियार बनाने की तब सोचे जब लड़ने के लिए देश में जवान हो ! भूखे मरते हुए कौन बहादुरी दिखायेगा और चारो और लोग भेडियो की तरह आपको खाने को तैयार ! बाहर वालो की तो बात बाद में पहले अन्दर वाले अपने आप को राजा घोषित करने के भूखे ! पहले उनको काबू करना फिर देश के भूखो का पेट भरना फिर बाहर वालो से टक्कर लेना ! लोगो को रोजगार मुहैया करवाने के लिए कंपनी बनाना और उन कंपनियों में काम करने के लिए लोगो को ढूँढना अनपढ़ पढ़े लिखे सब तरह के भारती किये गए !उनमे वो सब भी आये जिन्हें कुछ नहीं करना आता था और सरकार के नियम उस समय ऐसे थे कि एक बार आपको नौकरी मिली तो पदौन्नती तो आपको मिलेगी ही मिलेगी ! लोगो को फ्री फंड का खाना ऐसा आया कि वो आदत सुधारी नहीं जा सकती ! सैकड़ो सरकारी कंपनी घटे में चलती रही और ये फ्री फंड क़ी घुन देश में पलती रही ! हमें ज्यादातर भीख पर ही जीना पड़ा और पेट्रोल डीजल के लिए हमें दूसरो क़ी मोहताजी मिली ! जो अनाज दुसरे देशो से ख़रीदा उसे जानवर भी शायद नहीं खाते और साथ में फ्री गिफ्ट में काक्रोच और कांग्रेस घास मिली !

[vicky84]

पंद्रह हजार किलोमीटर से लोग भारत की जनता को जगा रहे हैं ! डॉलर मिल रहे हैं कमाई में तो सबने बढ़िया बढ़िया बात आ जया हैं!घाम में धक्के खाके कोए न हांडता एजुकेट इंडिया करता ! भाई दूर बैठ के मैच का आनंद लेना बहुत आसान है बाल किस स्पीड से आ रही है ये सिर्फ खेलने वाला ही जानता है! पहले मुगलों की फिर अंग्रेज आये व्यापारी बनकर और इस देश पर हुकूमत करने लगे !आज़ादी के टाइम को तो आप ऐसे गिना रहे हैं मानो भारत उस वक़्त सोने से लदा हुआ था ! सबसे देश का विभाजन चाहे किसी की महत्वाकांक्षा हो या लम्बे समय का एक diplomatic फैंसला पर वो वाकई एक मुश्किल घडी रही होगी दोनों देशो के लिए ! सोच के देखो की किसी देश के टुकड़े हो रहे हैं जोकि सैंकड़ो सालो से गुलाम था और जिसके पास रोजी रोजगार का कोई साधन नहीं ! उस वक़्त आप भूल कर भी विदेशियों की मदद नहीं मांग सकते थे ऍफ़ डी आई के बारे में सोचना भी गुनाह था ! देश की आबादी बहुत बड़ी थी और खेती बाड़ी की आमदनी कम यहाँ तक की अपना पेट भरने का भी अन्न हम उत्पन्न नहीं करते थे ! हथियार बनाने की तब सोचे जब लड़ने के लिए देश में जवान हो ! भूखे मरते हुए कौन बहादुरी दिखायेगा और चारो और लोग भेडियो की तरह आपको खाने को तैयार ! बाहर वालो की तो बात बाद में पहले अन्दर वाले अपने आप को राजा घोषित करने के भूखे ! पहले उनको काबू करना फिर देश के भूखो का पेट भरना फिर बाहर वालो से टक्कर लेना ! लोगो को रोजगार मुहैया करवाने के लिए कंपनी बनाना और उन कंपनियों में काम करने के लिए लोगो को ढूँढना अनपढ़ पढ़े लिखे सब तरह के भारती किये गए !उनमे वो सब भी आये जिन्हें कुछ नहीं करना आता था और सरकार के नियम उस समय ऐसे थे कि एक बार आपको नौकरी मिली तो पदौन्नती तो आपको मिलेगी ही मिलेगी ! लोगो को फ्री फंड का खाना ऐसा आया कि वो आदत सुधारी नहीं जा सकती ! सैकड़ो सरकारी कंपनी घटे में चलती रही और ये फ्री फंड क़ी घुन देश में पलती रही ! हमें ज्यादातर भीख पर ही जीना पड़ा और पेट्रोल डीजल के लिए हमें दूसरो क़ी मोहताजी मिली ! जो अनाज दुसरे देशो से ख़रीदा उसे जानवर भी शायद नहीं खाते और साथ में फ्री गिफ्ट में काक्रोच और कांग्रेस घास मिली !



न खुद करो और न किसी को करने दो! यही सोच तो मार गयी! लोग देश में बैठे बैठे ही कुछ नहीं कर रहे, तो यदि कोई बहार से प्रयाश करता है तो उसका विरोध कर दो! दोस्त नकारात्मक विचाधारा को त्यागो. उस्सी में सभी की भलाई है. संजीव जी अपने स्तर पर हर प्रयाश कर रहे हैं. उन्होंने तो देश में रहकर भी प्रयास किया है लेकिन सफलता हाथ नहीं लगी. तो बहार जा कर अब भी अपने अथक प्रयाश में लगे हुए है. भारत जाते हैं समय समय पर और अपना लक्ष्य बना रखा है . भ्रस्त लोगों की तरह वो भी ३५० करोड़ की संपत्ति जोड़ सकते थे, जब वो आईएस थे . ऐसी कमाई बहार कभी भी नहीं हो सकती थी नौकरी करके.

अब आई बात आज़ादी की. तो मेरे भाई, आँख मूंद कर कुछ भी उठा लेना कहाँ से समघ वाली बात है. बात ये नहीं है की भारत कैसा था उस समय. कितनी गरीबी थी. सोना तो शुरू में किसी के पास नहीं था. अन्ग्रेज़ के पास कहाँ से सोना था जो उन्होंने इतनी तरकी कर ली. दिमाग लगाया और सोना बनाया.


तो मेरे भाई, सोना होता है देश के लोग. यदि देश के लोग के पास दिमाग है और उन्हें सही रास्ता दिखाया जाता है तो उससे बड़ा धन कोई नहीं है! एक बार थोडा दिमाग खोलकर उनकी किताब को पढना, सब सम्ज्घ आ जाएगा. यहाँ में तुघ्से ये दिखने नहीं आया हूँ की मुघे तुघ्से जयादा पता है. या तुने लिख कैसे दिया. तो भाई समय निकालके एक बार पढना.

[rakeshsehrawat]

तेल हमें साउदी से मिलता था और अमरीका से डॉलर खरीदने पड़ते हैं ! डॉलर का दाम बढ़ता गया और कर्जा भी ! उनीस सौ इक्यानवे में वो हालात भी आये जब देश के पास विदेशी मुद्रा भंडार सिर्फ दो हफ्ते का था और सरकार क़ी पिचहतर प्रतिशत कारोबार घाटे में चल रहे थे !हालात देख के देश को विदेशी कारोबार के लिए खोला गया तो विदेशी दोगला निति के उदहारण देखने को मिले एनरोन नाम क़ी एक कम्पनी से महाराष्ट्र बिजली बोर्ड का करार हुआ क्योंकि उद्योग तभी आएंगे जब बिजली होगी और बिजली के लिए निवेश चाहिए वो निवेश कहाँ से आये सो विदेशो से ही भीख मांगी गयी ! तो एनरोन कंपनी ने कहा क़ी हम जितनी बिजली बनायेंगे वो खरीदनी पड़ेगी और दाम तय करने के लिए उन्होंने फ़ॉर्मूला दिया नाकि कोई तयशुदा दाम, नेप्था चालित इस प्लांट को चालू करने से पहले एनरोन ने महाराष्ट्र सरकार से गारंटी मांगी जोकि पंद्रह हजार करोड़ थी और उनपर अपना भरोसा न जताकर उन्होंने ये करार भारत सरकार से किया ! इस प्लांट पर एनरोन के कुल ६००० करोड़ खर्च हुए थे कागजो के अनुसार ! जब बिजली मिलनी चालू हुई तो आठ रूपये यूनिट जबकि हमारी कीमत दो रुपये यूनिट थी कौन आठ रुपये देता ? और बिजली बोर्ड क़ी खाल उतरनी शुरू हुई !उस से कैसे निकले ये आप थोडा सा इसी इन्टरनेट के माध्यम से ढूड कर बताइए !

[rakeshsehrawat]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dashrath_Manjhi

प्रयास करने वालो क़ी कहानियां बनती हैं वो दुनिया को दोष नहीं देते दुनिया उनकी तारीफ करती है !
समय निकल कर पूरा लिखूंगा थोडा व्यस्त हूँ !

[vicky84]

तेल हमें साउदी से मिलता था और अमरीका से डॉलर खरीदने पड़ते हैं ! डॉलर का दाम बढ़ता गया और कर्जा भी ! उनीस सौ इक्यानवे में वो हालात भी आये जब देश के पास विदेशी मुद्रा भंडार सिर्फ दो हफ्ते का था और सरकार क़ी पिचहतर प्रतिशत कारोबार घाटे में चल रहे थे !हालात देख के देश को विदेशी कारोबार के लिए खोला गया तो विदेशी दोगला निति के उदहारण देखने को मिले एनरोन नाम क़ी एक कम्पनी से महाराष्ट्र बिजली बोर्ड का करार हुआ क्योंकि उद्योग तभी आएंगे जब बिजली होगी और बिजली के लिए निवेश चाहिए वो निवेश कहाँ से आये सो विदेशो से ही भीख मांगी गयी ! तो एनरोन कंपनी ने कहा क़ी हम जितनी बिजली बनायेंगे वो खरीदनी पड़ेगी और दाम तय करने के लिए उन्होंने फ़ॉर्मूला दिया नाकि कोई तयशुदा दाम, नेप्था चालित इस प्लांट को चालू करने से पहले एनरोन ने महाराष्ट्र सरकार से गारंटी मांगी जोकि पंद्रह हजार करोड़ थी और उनपर अपना भरोसा न जताकर उन्होंने ये करार भारत सरकार से किया ! इस प्लांट पर एनरोन के कुल ६००० करोड़ खर्च हुए थे कागजो के अनुसार ! जब बिजली मिलनी चालू हुई तो आठ रूपये यूनिट जबकि हमारी कीमत दो रुपये यूनिट थी कौन आठ रुपये देता ? और बिजली बोर्ड क़ी खाल उतरनी शुरू हुई !उस से कैसे निकले ये आप थोडा सा इसी इन्टरनेट के माध्यम से ढूड कर बताइए !

Rakesh, Read that book. You will find the answer.

[skarmveer]

मे आप से पूरी तरह सहमत हूँ रविंदर भाई ..जब शारीर के कीसी अंग मे सडन हो जाती है तो उसको काटना ही पड़ता है नहीं तो पूरा शारीर साद कर ख़तम हो जाता है अब ऑपरेशन काना ही एकमात्र इलाज है !


भाई आतिश आज के जमाने में ये कागजी घोड़े ( फ्रीडम टीम आफ इंडिया,अन्ना आन्दोलन , रामदेव आन्दोलन ) भजा के ने कोए काम कोणी बने | आज आपणा देश ही नहीं पूरी दुनिया हरामखोरों,सट्टेबाजों ,तस्करों ,आतंकवादिओं और दुष्ट चमचों के जाल में पूरी तरह फंश चुकी हे | जब ताहीं कम तें कम राष्ट्रीय स्तर पे हथियार बंद क्रान्ति नि होवेगी अर इससे माणसआँ का सामूहिक वध नहीं होवेगा किम्मे भी नि होणा | सपने चाहे किम्मे लियें जाओ | हर साल सेकड़ों इमानदार अफसरों का कत्ल कर दिया जाता हे | और हजारों तबादलों के चक्कर में अपनी सर्विस बिना कुछ काम किये पूरी कर जाते हैं | पूरा तंत्र भ्र्स्ठों के साथ खडा हे और खुद भ्रस्ठ हे |

[ashishsehrawat9]

मे आप से पूरी तरह सहमत हूँ रविंदर भाई ..जब शारीर के कीसी अंग मे सडन हो जाती है तो उसको काटना ही पड़ता है नहीं तो पूरा शारीर साद कर ख़तम हो जाता है अब ऑपरेशन काना ही एकमात्र इलाज है !

bilkul sahi kaha sir aapne.Lekin hum logo kai saat aur bhi kayi pareshenia hai..................Jab bhi koi is corrupt system kai against aawaj utha tha to usse politically motivated mana jatha hai.jaise ki Anna hazare kai case mai hua hai ...............................

[rakeshsehrawat]

An Old Story:

The Ant wrks hard in d withering heat all summer building its house and laying up supplies for the winter.

The Grasshopper thinks the Ant is a fool and laughs & dances & plays the summer away.

Come winter, the Ant is warm and well fed. The Grasshopper has no food or shelter so he dies out in the cold.


Indian Version:

The Ant works hard in the withering heat all summer building its house and laying up supplies for the winter.

The Grasshopper thinks the Ant's a fool and laughs & dances & plays the summer away.

Come winter, the shivering Grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the Ant should be allowed to be warm and well fed while others are cold and starving.

NDTV, BBC, CNN show up to provide pictures of the shivering Grasshopper next to a video of the Ant in his comfortable home with a table filled with food.

The World is stunned by the sharp contrast. How can this be that this poor Grasshopper is allowed to suffer so?

Arundhati Roy stages a demonstration in front of the Ant's house.

Medha Patkar goes on a fast along with other Grasshoppers demanding that Grasshoppers be relocated to warmer climates during winter .

Mayawati states this as `injustice' done on Minorities.

Amnesty International criticize the Indian Government for not upholding the fundamental rights of the Grasshopper.

The Internet is flooded with online petitions seeking support to the Grasshopper (many promising Heaven and Everlasting Peace for prompt support as against the wrath of God for non-compliance) .

Opposition MPs stage a walkout. Left parties call for 'Bengal Bandh' in West Bengal and Kerala demanding a Judicial Enquiry.

CPM in Kerala immediately passes a law preventing Ants from working hard in the heat so as to bring about equality of poverty among Ants and Grasshoppers.

Lalu Prasad allocates one free coach to Grasshoppers on all Indian Railway Trains, aptly named as the 'Grasshopper Rath'.

Finally, the Judicial Committee drafts the ' Prevention of Terrorism Against Grasshoppers Act' [POTAGA], with effect from the beginning of the winter.

Arjun Singh makes 'Special Reservation ' for Grasshoppers in Educational Institutions & in Government Services.

The Ant is fined for failing to comply with POTAGA and having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes,it's home is confiscated by the Government and handed over to the Grasshopper in a ceremony covered by NDTV.

Arundhati Roy calls it ' A Triumph of Justice'.

Lalu calls it 'Socialistic Justice '.

CPM calls it the ' Revolutionary Resurgence of the Downtrodden '

Govt invites the Grasshopper to address the UN General Assembly.

Many years later...

The Ant has since migrated to the US set up a multi-billion dollar company in Silicon Valley,

100s of Grasshoppers still die of starvation despite reservation somewhere in India,

..AND

As a result of loosing lot of hard working Ants and feeding the grasshoppers,

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

India is still a developing country !!!

[anilsangwan]

राकेश ... ले पुन्झडी लगवा ले...: http://varietyreading.carlsguides.com/forwards/antgrasshopper.php

मेने भी राकेश के पूँझडी चैपन का मौका लाग इ गया ..... इस कसाई ने आधी दुनिया पूँझ-आली बना दी.... एर खुद हंडे था लान्डा..... हा हा हा हा हा हा हा




An Old Story:

The Ant wrks hard in d withering heat all summer building its house and laying up supplies for the winter.

The Grasshopper thinks the Ant is a fool and laughs & dances & plays the summer away.

Come winter, the Ant is warm and well fed. The Grasshopper has no food or shelter so he dies out in the cold.


Indian Version:

The Ant works hard in the withering heat all summer building its house and laying up supplies for the winter.

The Grasshopper thinks the Ant's a fool and laughs & dances & plays the summer away.

Come winter, the shivering Grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the Ant should be allowed to be warm and well fed while others are cold and starving.

NDTV, BBC, CNN show up to provide pictures of the shivering Grasshopper next to a video of the Ant in his comfortable home with a table filled with food.

The World is stunned by the sharp contrast. How can this be that this poor Grasshopper is allowed to suffer so?

Arundhati Roy stages a demonstration in front of the Ant's house.

Medha Patkar goes on a fast along with other Grasshoppers demanding that Grasshoppers be relocated to warmer climates during winter .

Mayawati states this as `injustice' done on Minorities.

Amnesty International criticize the Indian Government for not upholding the fundamental rights of the Grasshopper.

The Internet is flooded with online petitions seeking support to the Grasshopper (many promising Heaven and Everlasting Peace for prompt support as against the wrath of God for non-compliance) .

Opposition MPs stage a walkout. Left parties call for 'Bengal Bandh' in West Bengal and Kerala demanding a Judicial Enquiry.

CPM in Kerala immediately passes a law preventing Ants from working hard in the heat so as to bring about equality of poverty among Ants and Grasshoppers.

Lalu Prasad allocates one free coach to Grasshoppers on all Indian Railway Trains, aptly named as the 'Grasshopper Rath'.

Finally, the Judicial Committee drafts the ' Prevention of Terrorism Against Grasshoppers Act' [POTAGA], with effect from the beginning of the winter.

Arjun Singh makes 'Special Reservation ' for Grasshoppers in Educational Institutions & in Government Services.

The Ant is fined for failing to comply with POTAGA and having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes,it's home is confiscated by the Government and handed over to the Grasshopper in a ceremony covered by NDTV.

Arundhati Roy calls it ' A Triumph of Justice'.

Lalu calls it 'Socialistic Justice '.

CPM calls it the ' Revolutionary Resurgence of the Downtrodden '

Govt invites the Grasshopper to address the UN General Assembly.

Many years later...

The Ant has since migrated to the US set up a multi-billion dollar company in Silicon Valley,

100s of Grasshoppers still die of starvation despite reservation somewhere in India,

..AND

As a result of loosing lot of hard working Ants and feeding the grasshoppers,

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

India is still a developing country !!!

[rakeshsehrawat]

राकेश ... ले पुन्झडी लगवा ले...: http://varietyreading.carlsguides.com/forwards/antgrasshopper.php
मानने कद सी कहया या मेरी रचना है !
वो लिखना रह गया " Copied from facebook with thanks " इस लिए सभी सदस्यों से अनुरोध है एक बार अपनी कुर्सी से खड़े होके भाई साहब के लिए तालिया 146681466914670बजा दो ! 14671गहन रिसर्च करी है

[vicky84]

मानने कद सी कहया या मेरी रचना है !
वो लिखना रह गया " Copied from facebook with thanks " इस लिए सभी सदस्यों से अनुरोध है एक बार अपनी कुर्सी से खड़े होके भाई साहब के लिए तालिया 146681466914670बजा दो ! 14671गहन रिसर्च करी है


Rakesh ibb galti to tunnai bhugatni padegi..Tunnai likhna tha ke yo copy paste sai..Nyu koni baccha jaawe..Tu ek min koni laawe isse isse mauke pai...bechare kayi to teri laayi hodd punjhadaan ke darr tai aade aana bhi chhod ge.

[anilsangwan]

Rakesh ibb galti to tunnai bhugatni padegi..Tunnai likhna tha ke yo copy paste sai..Nyu koni baccha jaawe..Tu ek min koni laawe isse isse mauke pai...bechare kayi to teri laayi hodd punjhadaan ke darr tai aade aana bhi chhod ge.


हा हा हा हा हा Theek kahi Atish.

Rakesh, काली मतना माने भाई ... तू जब पून्झ्द लावे तो दूस्र्याँ के भी इतना इ चरमराट माचे स ......... भाई राकेश हम ने तू बिना पूँझ डी भी आछा लागे स..... लेकिन या तो सिर्फ उन आत्मा की शान्ति खातिर थी जिन का कालजा तेंने दुखा राख्या स पुंजडा के ..... आतिश आली बात स... लोग आना छोड़ गे .... हा हा हा हा हा हा हा ...आर हाँ .... ये जो फोटू तेने चेपी सें गूगल पर तें कोपी कर के ......ताली बजवान आली ......... इनकी पूँझडी उधार रही....

[dahiyavijay7]

A) Do you think all civil servants are like this man
B) Do you think that in this country you only know about the working of bureaucracy
C) Yes I also say that they only provide all means for corruption
D) Yes poor clerk has only responsibility to work, knowledge of the work and accept blame if required, authority is with officers only
E) The fact is the so called real rulers has no knowledge, no interest and no time for public good/work

Dear Fateh Singh
Where did I say that all civil servants are like this man, in fact you were saying that civil servants are running this country and lower employees/clerks are corrupt.
I never stated that I am the only person who knew about the working of bureaucracy. Further, if you had the knowledge of working of bureaucracy, then, you might not have blamed the lower employees.
If the lower employee were corrupt then what the honest officers are doing, whose only work is the supervision of their lower employees. In fact, even the Supreme Court have validated that officer is responsible for the actions of his subordinates.

[dahiyavijay7]

Friend,

I would like to draw your attention towards an article below:





The author has disregarded the fact that politician govern the bureaucracy. The author contended that bureaucracy is inefficient. A large chunk of amount released for welfare work is siphoned off by the bureaucracy. it would be imprudent to conclude that the lower staff eats away this money. In this regard, it is intimated that bureaucracy is the only apparatus to draw the money from the treasury. The corrupt politician can not go to the RBI and take out the money from the locker for their personal use. The only way left to the politicians to make black money is to make a welfare scheme on paper and ask the bureaucrates to draw the money and give half of the money to the politician, then left is siphoned off to the contractor (relatives of politicians) to implement the scheme. The lower employee just take 1% bribe from these contractors, who are blamed for the corruption.

[dahiyavijay7]

Friend,

Please read the article:

Indian bureaucracy – the most inefficient?


http://asiancorrespondent.com/33289/indian-bureaucracy-%E2%80%93-the-most-inefficient/

More :

India has the most inefficient bureaucracy in Asia, according to an expat survey.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/expatnews/7801030/Red-tape-in-India-causes-problems-for-expats.html
The media is fooling the people at the behest of politicians and you are buying the story. The bureaucracy in India work more than any other country at very low pay and under very pitiful conditions. Still is be inefficient. It is not due to that employees do not work. The Politician ask the IAS of PWD to give certain crores, if he do not want to get transferred in Animal Husbandry department. The IAS obliges and make a scheme to build roads. The clerks becomes busy in blackening the paper for various section implement the decision. The road are build by the workers by working day and night. then, the Politician demands more money and orders laying down the sewer lines. The roads are again damaged to lay down the sewer lines. Then, the next government came. It orders building the roads again to make money. Then, after some time makes the proposal to lay down the water pipeline. The piple line is build but damaging the road again. In this process the sewer line is also damaged. The road is again build. This is a perpetual cycle, where the employees make hardwork over and over again so that black money could be stashed by the politician and still you are blaming the bureaucracy. The bureaucracy can not neglect the orders of Mantriji elected by you.

[Fateh]

Dear Fateh Singh
Where did I say that all civil servants are like this man, in fact you were saying that civil servants are running this country and lower employees/clerks are corrupt.
I never stated that I am the only person who knew about the working of bureaucracy. Further, if you had the knowledge of working of bureaucracy, then, you might not have blamed the lower employees.
If the lower employee were corrupt then what the honest officers are doing, whose only work is the supervision of their lower employees. In fact, even the Supreme Court have validated that officer is responsible for the actions of his subordinates.
Dear Vijay, please read my previous and your post and than come back

[vicky84]

The media is fooling the people at the behest of politicians and you are buying the story. The bureaucracy in India work more than any other country at very low pay and under very pitiful conditions. Still is be inefficient. It is not due to that employees do not work. The Politician ask the IAS of PWD to give certain crores, if he do not want to get transferred in Animal Husbandry department. The IAS obliges and make a scheme to build roads. The clerks becomes busy in blackening the paper for various section implement the decision. The road are build by the workers by working day and night. then, the Politician demands more money and orders laying down the sewer lines. The roads are again damaged to lay down the sewer lines. Then, the next government came. It orders building the roads again to make money. Then, after some time makes the proposal to lay down the water pipeline. The piple line is build but damaging the road again. In this process the sewer line is also damaged. The road is again build. This is a perpetual cycle, where the employees make hardwork over and over again so that black money could be stashed by the politician and still you are blaming the bureaucracy. The bureaucracy can not neglect the orders of Mantriji elected by you.


Friend,

On one hand you are saying that politicians govern bureaucracy and politicians are the main driver of corruption.

On the other hand when media exposes about inefficient bureaucracy then it's again politician who make media to publish such reports.

Why would they(Politicians) do that?

[DrRajpalSingh]

Late Chaudhary Devi Lal Ji kaha karade, Bhrastachar kee jad upper hoti hai aur yah amarbel kee tarah sare system ko khokhala kar deti hai. Yadi barastachar mitana hai to unche padon se shuruat karani hogi!
(Amarbel ke koi jad nahin hoti, vah jis ped ke upper chiptati hai uska sara ras pee jati hai aur ped sukh Jata hai.)

Aap is bare mein kya kahate hain.

[vicky84]

Late Chaudhary Devi Lal Ji kaha karade, Bhrastachar kee jad upper hoti hai aur yah amarbel kee tarah sare system ko khokhala kar deti hai. Yadi barastachar mitana hai to unche padon se shuruat karani hogi!
(Amarbel ke koi jad nahin hoti, vah jis ped ke upper chiptati hai uska sara ras pee jati hai aur ped sukh Jata hai.)

Aap is bare mein kya kahate hain.


Respected Sir,

I am not defending politicians. In fact when when we drafted our constitution, our politicians did not analysed our requirements properly.Patel was happy to keep British legacy intact without changing it. In our constituion we showed a great sympathy for bureaucracy and did not provide any provision to review it from time to time. This loose point is hurting us today.

Now the point is how do we get the system right. Its the people who decide the fate of politicians. But the problem is that very few understand what needs to be done. People get high jacked by thugs like Baba Ramdev and groups like Anna Hazare. Anna Hazare lokpal bill could be disaster without reform in the bureaucracy. People need to understand the concepts of governance. Without reforming our bureaucracy we cannot achieve what we want. The topic of governance is very big. So very few would like to go in details and understand it. Its the people who need to ask their leaders to have a reformed bureaucracy in place. Otherwise this issue of corruption will never be over.

[vicky84]

Late Chaudhary Devi Lal Ji kaha karade, Bhrastachar kee jad upper hoti hai aur yah amarbel kee tarah sare system ko khokhala kar deti hai. Yadi barastachar mitana hai to unche padon se shuruat karani hogi!
(Amarbel ke koi jad nahin hoti, vah jis ped ke upper chiptati hai uska sara ras pee jati hai aur ped sukh Jata hai.)

Aap is bare mein kya kahate hain.


Respected Sir,

Please read the quoted posts. I hope it would be good read. The posts below explain what is required.


1.क्या भारत में यह जन आक्रोश एक सामाजिक एवं राजनितिक क्रांति में बदलेगा?
नहीं.

1.1 यदि हाँ तो क्यों ?
-------------------------

1.2 यदि नहीं तो क्यों ?

क्यूंकि पिछले तीन चार महीने घटनापूर्ण बेशक रहे हों, पर अभूतपूर्व कहीं से नहीं थे. आज के समय में, मीडिया के चलते, हर घटना का विवरण दस गुणा करके होता है. अन्ना का आन्दोलन इन्टरनेट और टीवी पे अधिक और सड़कों पे कम था. बाबा के आन्दोलन में जनता थोड़ी और थी, पर अधिकतर लोग बाबा के अनुयायी हैं न की आन्दोलनकारी. इससे कहीं अधिक बवाल किसी भी जाति के आरक्षण के आन्दोलन में होता है, पर वोह दिल्ली के जंतर मंतर पे नहीं होता और मीडिया को उसमें ख़ास दिलचस्पी नहीं होती.

2. क्या वर्तमान जन आक्रोश में क्रांति के सभी घटक मौजूद हैं?
मुझे नहीं लगता. लोग क्रांति पे तब उतरते हैं जब वोह परिस्तिथियों से एक लाचारी महसूस करते हैं. और उनके पास खोने को कुछ ज्यादा नहीं होता. आज का मध्य वर्ग अपनी ज़िन्दगी की दौड़ में व्यस्त है. दूसरा, आक्रोष अपनी चरम सीमा पे तब पहुचता है, जब उसे कोई निकास नहीं मिलता. प्रजातंत्र को चाहे जितनी भी गाली दे दो, पर लोग सरकार के खिलाफ जम के बोल सकते है. जिससे आक्रोष अपने आप कम हो जाता है.

2.1 क्या भारत में कभी क्रांति हो भी सकती है ?
पता नहीं. क्रांति वैसे ही बहुत कठिन होती है. भारत जैसे देश में जहां इतनी विविधताएं हैं, वहाँ लोगों को क्रांति के लिए जोड़ना और भी कठिन है. प्रजातंत्र के चलते यह और भी कठिन हो जाता है, चूँकि लोग अपनी भड़ास निकाल सकते हैं. दिल्ली में जहां क्रांति को लेके सबसे ज्यादा हल्ला मचता है, वहाँ चुनाव के समय ४५ फीसदी मतदान होता है. जो लोग कतार में खड़े होके एक वोट डालने में आलस करते हैं, वोह क्रांति के लिए सड़कों पे उतरेंगे? दूसरी और तमिलनाडु की जनता ने ८० फीसदी से अधिक मतदान देके एक भ्रष्ट सरकार को बदला, हालांकि वहाँ इस क्रांति कि कोई लहर नहीं थी.

3. आप क्या स्वयम सडको पर उतरना चाहेंगे ?
नहीं.

3.1 यदि हाँ तो क्यों?
-----------------------------------------------------------

3.2 यदि नहीं तो क्या आपको रोक रहा है ?
अव्वल तो आन्दोलन में मेरी आस्था कम ही है. अधिकतर आन्दोलन या तो hijack हो जाते हैं या गुमराह. पर अगर कोई आन्दोलन जिसकी मांग से मैं मेल खाता हूँ और जो प्रजातंत्र में रहते हुए राजनीती में भाग लेता है, तो मैं उसका पूरा समर्थन करूंगा.

बाबा और अन्ना कि मांगों से मेरी सहमती नहीं है. मेरे विचार से भ्रष्टाचार का सबसे महत्त्वपूर्ण कारण है कि सरकार के अनेक और पेचीदे कायदे कानून. भारत में हर काम के लिए पचास अनुमतियाँ और सौ सरकारी लोगों के हस्ताक्षर लेने पड़ते हैं. जहां ऐसी कार्य प्रणाली होगी, वहाँ भ्रष्टाचार स्वाभाविक है. जिस खेल में नियम स्पष्ट और सरल नहीं होंगे, वहाँ बेईमानी तो होगी ही. अन्ना और बाबा की मांगों का इस बात से लेना देना नहीं है. प्रणाली मैं सुधार के बजाय (जो कि शायद सुनने मैं और बोलने मैं बोरिंग है) उनकी मांगें थोड़ी फिल्मों जैसी हैं जहां एक ईमानदार हीरो सब बेईमानों को नष्ट कर देता है. .नेताओं से क्रोधित जनता को "भ्रष्टाचार मिटाओ" का नारा बहुत लुभाता है, पर यह उतना ही प्रभावी है जितना कि इंदिरा का "गरीबी हटाओ" नारा था.





समर भाई,

कि विभिन्न देशों के सरकारी ढांचों में कितना अंतर है. जिन देशों में भ्रष्टाचार कम है, वहाँ के मनुष्यों का DNA हमसे भिन्न नहीं है- हाँ उनकी प्रणाली हमसे सरल और सुचारू अवश्य है. एक जानकार का किस्सा बताता हूँ. उसने UK में अपना बिजनेस एक घंटे में ऑनलाइन बैठे रजिस्टर कर लिया. यही काम उसे भारत में करने के लिए एक महीने से ऊपर लगा जहां उसके सरकारी दफ्तरों के बहुत चक्कर लगे. अब आप क्या करना चाहेंगे? सरकारी दफ्तर के हर कर्मचारी का सुधार या फिर ऐसी प्रणाली जहां इतने चक्कर लगाने की आवशयकता ही न हो? ऐसा भी नहीं है की भारत ने प्रणाली में सुधार के फायदे नहीं देखे हों. आज से बीस पच्चीस साल पहले, फ़ोन लगवाने में सात साल की वेटिंग लिस्ट होती थी. फ़ोन मिलता था तो फिर हर अगले दिन dead हो जाता था. फिर lineman आता था और चाय-पानी की मांग करता था. आज फ़ोन का कनेक्शन फुर्ती से मिलता है. जब फ़ोन dead होता है, तो आप lineman की शकल भी नहीं देखते. इंसान तो वही हैं- परिवर्तन उनके व्यक्तित्व में हुआ की प्रणाली में?

प्रणाली में सुधार कि बात कोई नयी है. इस विषय पे अनेक सरकारी और गैर सरकारी रिपोर्ट लिखी जा चुकी हैं. जैसे की ऐसा माना जाता है की अधिकतर सरकारी अनुमतियाँ "single window clearance system" से मिलनी चाहिए. चाहे पानी का कनेक्शन हो या बिजनेस की अनुमति, आवेदक बस एक अर्जी दे और निर्धारित समय पे उस पर फैसला हो. सरकारी व्यवस्था में सुधार के ऐसे कई सुझाव हैं. इन सुझावों में एक समानता ये है की ये सब सरकार, मंत्री और ब्युरोक्रैट की ताकतों को कम करते हैं. जितने फैसले पारदर्शी नियमों से हो जाएँ, उतने ही भ्रष्टाचार के अवसर कम होंगे. और जितने अलग अलग लोगों की मर्ज़ी पे होंगे, उतना ही ताकत के दुरूपयोग के अवसर बढ़ेंगे. सिद्धान्ती तौर पे मैं मानता हूँ कि एक अच्छा लोकपाल, संसद और सरकार पे चेक का काम कर सकता है. पर यह अनिवार्य है कि लोकपाल खुद अपने आप सुपर सरकार न बन जाए. अब भावनाओं को परे कर के अगर आप अन्ना टीम के लोक पाल बिल का विश्लेषण करें, तो वो इस कसौटी पे खरा नहीं उतरता.

हम भारतीयों कि आस्था महानायकों में अधिक होती है. हम सोचते हैं कि एक महानायक को बहुत ताकत दे दो, वोह सारा सिस्टम साफ़ कर देगा और सारे नेता रुपी खलनायकों को लाइन पे लगा देगा. असल में तो महानायक हो या खलनायक, हैं सब हाड-मांस के इंसान ही. ताकत कब किस के सर चढ़ जाए कहा नहीं जा सकता. और फिर महानायक से खलनायक का सफ़र ज्यादा लम्बा नहीं है. इसलिए मेरी आस्था प्रणाली को बेहतर करने में है न की लोगों को.

[DrRajpalSingh]

Respected Sir,

I am not defending politicians. In fact when when we drafted our constitution, our politicians did not analysed our requirements properly.Patel was happy to keep British legacy intact without changing it. In our constituion we showed a great sympathy for bureaucracy and did not provide any provision to review it from time to time. This loose point is hurting us today.

Now the point is how do we get the system right. Its the people who decide the fate of politicians. But the problem is that very few understand what needs to be done. People get high jacked by thugs like Baba Ramdev and groups like Anna Hazare. Anna Hazare lokpal bill could be disaster without reform in the bureaucracy. People need to understand the concepts of governance. Without reforming our bureaucracy we cannot achieve what we want. The topic of governance is very big. So very few would like to go in details and understand it. Its the people who need to ask their leaders to have a reformed bureaucracy in place. Otherwise this issue of corruption will never be over.

Valued Friend,

I have gone through both of your posts (49 and50) with interest but to my mind awakening the masses from slumber is the need of the hour, then and only then, rest of the things would start happening in the interest of the nation.
It would be in the fitness of things to avoid using derogatory words for anyone (whether we agree or disagree with him/her) in academic discussion.

Sardar Patel was one of the hundreds of members who were members of the Constituent Assembly. So it is wrong to blame him for the good or bad points in the present system.

Thanks.

[ygulia]

Dr Janghu, people in India will not awake from slumber till water reaches their nose as happened in Egypt. Country is passing through height of corruption. Politicians are in vicious cycle, they get involved in a new scandal to hide an old one and there is no end to it. It is not one political party; all are chips of the same stone. Only a revolution can bring a new phase in life of the people of India. India is fortunate that they have the youngest population in the world and the youth of India has the capability to bring that change. It is just a matter of time, the change is inevitable.




Valued Friend,

I have gone through both of your posts (49 and50) with interest but to my mind awakening the masses from slumber is the need of the hour, then and only then, rest of the things would start happening in the interest of the nation.
It would be in the fitness of things to avoid using derogatory words for anyone (whether we agree or disagree with him/her) in academic discussion.

Sardar Patel was one of the hundreds of members who were members of the Constituent Assembly. So it is wrong to blame him for the good or bad points in the present system.

Thanks.

[DrRajpalSingh]

Dr Janghu, people in India will not awake from slumber till water reaches their nose as happened in Egypt. Country is passing through height of corruption. Politicians are in vicious cycle, they get involved in a new scandal to hide an old one and there is no end to it. It is not one political party; all are chips of the same stone. Only a revolution can bring a new phase in life of the people of India. India is fortunate that they have the youngest population in the world and the youth of India has the capability to bring that change. It is just a matter of time, the change is inevitable.

Gulia Sahib,

Change is the law of nature and it is said that if winter comes spring is not far behind. But, at the present juncture, it does not seem possible that 'Revolution' is knocking at our doors as the objective conditions in Indian Democracy are strong enough to counter such insurgency through battle of ballot not bullet.

regards.

[Fateh]

Gulia Sahib,

Change is the law of nature and it is said that if winter comes spring is not far behind. But, at the present juncture, it does not seem possible that 'Revolution' is knocking at our doors as the objective conditions in Indian Democracy are strong enough to counter such insurgency through battle of ballot not bullet.

regards.
I personally feel, niether objective conditions in indian democracy are strong nor Indian public, but revolution is not knocking door because we have become totally selfish and weak, also there is no democracy in india, we are ruled by dictetors in the name of political party which is run by one person, Infact it is worst than dictetorship because atlist dectetor is responsible for both good/bad, here these sameless goons are not responsible, Rajpal ji, do you think the changed party will rule us democratically, will give corruption free rule and justice

[DrRajpalSingh]

I personally feel, niether objective conditions in indian democracy are strong nor Indian public, but revolution is not knocking door because we have become totally selfish and weak, also there is no democracy in india, we are ruled by dictetors in the name of political party which is run by one person, Infact it is worst than dictetorship because atlist dectetor is responsible for both good/bad, here these sameless goons are not responsible, Rajpal ji, do you think the changed party will rule us democratically, will give corruption free rule and justice

I am optimistic and have full faith in the power of people of India and Indian democracy.

[Fateh]

I am optimistic and have full faith in the power of people of India and Indian democracy.


Dear, blind faith is dangerous, however, it is your wish, but I agree that a positive attitude keeps a person healthy and happy, so enjoy and we all hope for the best, regards

[ygulia]

That is the only option available....................



I am optimistic and have full faith in the power of people of India and Indian democracy.

[DrRajpalSingh]

Dear, blind faith is dangerous, however, it is your wish, but I agree that a positive attitude keeps a person healthy and happy, so enjoy and we all hope for the best, regards


Thanks for the best wishes.
Regards,

[vicky84]

Gulia Sahib,

Change is the law of nature and it is said that if winter comes spring is not far behind. But, at the present juncture, it does not seem possible that 'Revolution' is knocking at our doors as the objective conditions in Indian Democracy are strong enough to counter such insurgency through battle of ballot not bullet.

regards.


Respected Sir,

From my knowledge and understanding, things will change slowly. At this slow rate,it may take another 100 years for what we want today . But this slow movement is costing us a lot. Its more dangerous than corruption. There is too much power in the hands of handful people. This power concentration is the main reason of corruption. Its a prototype of dictatorship!

Its not that easy to get rid of powerful and arrogant bureaucracy. People in central secretariat are very powerful and very inefficient. Remember inefficient bureaucracy is more dangerous than corruption. Power abuse is quite prevalent is our bureaucracy. Even politicians find it very hard to get things done by this ignorant and inefficient bureaucrats in central secretariat. Unless we do not decentralize our system, its very hard to achieve objectives. I am hoping for the best and expecting the worst!


Regards,

[DrRajpalSingh]

Respected Sir,

From my knowledge and understanding, things will change slowly. At this slow rate,it may take another 100 years for what we want today . But this slow movement is costing us a lot. Its more dangerous than corruption. There is too much power in the hands of handful people. This power concentration is the main reason of corruption. Its a prototype of dictatorship!


Its not that easy to get rid of powerful and arrogant bureaucracy. People in central secretariat are very powerful and very inefficient. Remember inefficient bureaucracy is more dangerous than corruption. Power abuse is quite prevalent is our bureaucracy. Even politicians find it very hard to get things done by this ignorant and inefficient bureaucrats in central secretariat. Unless we do not decentralize our system, its very hard to achieve objectives. I am hoping for the best and expecting the worst!
Regards,

Friend,

Every one demands and agrees that certain corrective steps in our administrative system especially at delivery of services need immediate attention at the level of policy makers and it is heartening to note that in recent years some measures to make it transparent have been initiated. This is a good beginning and needs further push to expedite to make it further workable, responsible and sensitive.
But we must remember that enlightened citizens' cooperation to make any system effective is of utmost importance. We should concentrate our efforts and contribute towards making them aware about their rights and duties at the same time. This will surely help in overcoming the bottle necks in the delivery of timely services.

Thanks and regards.

[vicky84]

Friend,

Every one demands and agrees that certain corrective steps in our administrative system especially at delivery of services need immediate attention at the level of policy makers and it is heartening to note that in recent years some measures to make it transparent have been initiated. This is a good beginning and needs further push to expedite to make it further workable, responsible and sensitive.


Respected Sir,

I appreciate your positive attitude and optimism. As you said, some measures have been taken to make the process transparent. But still some of them are absurd. Sorry for strong words but I found them very inefficient. For instance, DOPT has taken an initiative to amend a rule in order to remove inefficient, unproductive IAS officers. However the time frame they have set to check their performance is 15 Years. How can we say it is a substantive measure. Why 15 years to check the performance. Why not on yearly basis. Such measure is joke! It still shows that we have too much sympathy for inefficient people! So I lost faith in these measures!

Regards,

[Fateh]

Friend,

Every one demands and agrees that certain corrective steps in our administrative system especially at delivery of services need immediate attention at the level of policy makers and it is heartening to note that in recent years some measures to make it transparent have been initiated. This is a good beginning and needs further push to expedite to make it further workable, responsible and sensitive.
But we must remember that enlightened citizens' cooperation to make any system effective is of utmost importance. We should concentrate our efforts and contribute towards making them aware about their rights and duties at the same time. This will surely help in overcoming the bottle necks in the delivery of timely services.

Thanks and regards.
Brother, you are right but in addition to your point, my submission is that more than policy makers it execution which needs total rethinking and corrective measures, our execution is totally inefficient, non motivated, biased and selfish, At the same time I agree that legislative, judiciary and media are equally corrupt, inefficient, biased and selfish and need corrective measures regards

[DrRajpalSingh]

Respected Sir,

I appreciate your positive attitude and optimism. As you said, some measures have been taken to make the process transparent. But still some of them are absurd. Sorry for strong words but I found them very inefficient. For instance, DOPT has taken an initiative to amend a rule in order to remove inefficient, unproductive IAS officers. However the time frame they have set to check their performance is 15 Years. How can we say it is a substantive measure. Why 15 years to check the performance. Why not on yearly basis. Such measure is joke! It still shows that we have too much sympathy for inefficient people! So I lost faith in these measures!

Regards,

Friend,

You want one year period and not fifteen years to remove 'inefficient' IAS officers, shows (contrary to your views expressed in last line of the post) your faith in the system, of course, with certain riders and this is a good sign to press for reforms.

Thanks.

[vicky84]

Friend,

You want one year period and not fifteen years to remove 'inefficient' IAS officers, shows (contrary to your views expressed in last line of the post) your faith in the system, of course, with certain riders and this is a good sign to press for reforms.

Thanks.

Respected Sir,


I did not mean that 15 Years is required to check the performance of IAS officer! I am not sure how you interpreted my post. You are very optimistic person and very patient person! However I am not that patient like you. You can wait for 100 Years and can tolerate inefficient people however I do not have such tolerances. Anyway everyone has an opinion. Having said that, It does not matter what I think or you think. Its has no relevance to the policy makers.

Thank You.

[DrRajpalSingh]

Brother, you are right but in addition to your point, my submission is that more than policy makers it execution which needs total rethinking and corrective measures, our execution is totally inefficient, non motivated, biased and selfish, At the same time I agree that legislative, judiciary and media are equally corrupt, inefficient, biased and selfish and need corrective measures regards

Friend,
I respect your views but fail to understand from whom do we demand or expect reforms when, according to your views expressed in the post under reference, all the four pillars of democracy Executive, Legislature, Judiciary and, of course forth pillar, Media are in such a state!

Regards

[DrRajpalSingh]

Respected Sir,

I appreciate your positive attitude and optimism. As you said, some measures have been taken to make the process transparent. But still some of them are absurd. Sorry for strong words but I found them very inefficient. For instance, DOPT has taken an initiative to amend a rule in order to remove inefficient, unproductive IAS officers. ..... Why 15 years to check the performance. Why not on yearly basis....

Respected Sir, I did not mean that 15 Years is required to check the performance of IAS officer! I am not sure how you interpreted my post. ......Thank You.

Friend,

Compare both your posts and then come out with your comments on my 'interpretation' ( Bold words mine in your first and second posts).

Thanks and regards

[vicky84]

[/B]

Friend,

Compare both your posts and then come out with your comments on my 'interpretation' ( Bold words mine in your first and second posts).

Thanks and regards


Respected Sir,

You are right ! And I am sorry for my writing.

Thank You.

[vicky84]

Delete this post. Thanks.

[vicky84]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Delete this post. Thanks.

[DrRajpalSingh]

Respected Sir,

You are right ! And I am sorry for my writing.

Thank You.

Dear Friend,

There is no question of sorry as we are participating in an academic discussion and there is always scope for divergence of opinion on specific issues in a democratic society. Therefore I respect your right to freedom of expression.

Hence you are welcome to continue the discussion as you deem fit.

thanks and regards

[Fateh]

Friend,
I respect your views but fail to understand from whom do we demand or expect reforms when, according to your views expressed in the post under reference, all the four pillars of democracy Executive, Legislature, Judiciary and, of course forth pillar, Media are in such a state!

Regards
Dear, please do not mind, I want reforms from people like you who are shaping the new generations, Otherwise, even a child knows that reforms can be brought by the contribution from all, may not be equal.my dear rajpal no pillar can be good/bad yes degree may differ, I have already expressed earlier in some post about steps required but one point is repeated that thinking of people about life, has to be changed which can best be done by all gurus-mother, father,sanskar guru and gian guru. Ofcourse, I do not spare other members of the society from the responsibility of reforms, every one of us has to do its bit,

[DrRajpalSingh]

Dear, please do not mind, I want reforms from people like you who are shaping the new generations, Otherwise, even a child knows that reforms can be brought by the contribution from all, may not be equal.my dear rajpal no pillar can be good/bad yes degree may differ, I have already expressed earlier in some post about steps required but one point is repeated that thinking of people about life, has to be changed which can best be done by all gurus-mother, father,sanskar guru and gian guru. Ofcourse, I do not spare other members of the society from the responsibility of reforms, every one of us has to do its bit,

Dear Friend,

You are right that there is dire need of social reformation in which every member of the Indian society has to contribute his humble bit. But this process of social reformation takes shape gradually and paticence is required to see the results of this process as we have witnessed in the case of reforms movement started from the time of Raja Ram Mohan Roy in the mid 19th century and carried on by the greats like Swami Dayanand Saraswati, Vivekananda, Fule, Sir S.A. Khan, MK Gandhi, BR Ambedkar and others in the 20th Century India. The 21st century has yet to find emergence such titanic personality to salvage their sinking spirits.

Need of the hour is every one comes forward to appreciate the multi-cultural, secular, democratic nature of Indian Nation as envisaged by founding fathers of the Indian Constitution. If anyone finds aberrations, he is free to knock at the doors of the highest body of judiciary and to take recourse to other remedial steps through constitutional methods. Then, in addition to other provisions, Right to Information Act is there to bring about transparency in the functioning of various organs of the State.

So far as improvement/reforms in the functioning of various departments of the central and state governments level are concerned, the policy makers (both, political and bureaucratic leadership) have been doing their job. But, the pace of reforms seems to be slow to the common man nowadays; because, due to IT explosion the expectations of the public have increased manifold. This phenomenon needs time bound steps to address all feasible demands for reforms in a transparent and visible manner to convince the public at large about the good intentions of the ruling elite irrespective of party affiliations.

To sum up, it is the duty of every citizen of the country to stand by the constitutional institutions and respect them to make India great in real terms.

Thanks and regards.

[Fateh]

Dr sahab,all the names agreed but as per my personal assessment, Ambedkar did nothing, he was there for a name, this mk gandhi harmed the country maximum, most characterless, canning and became father and made nehru as chacha of the nation for harming the country useless fellow,

[DrRajpalSingh]

Dr sahab,all the names agreed but as per my personal assessment, Ambedkar did nothing, he was there for a name, this mk gandhi harmed the country maximum, most characterless, canning and became father and made nehru as chacha of the nation for harming the country useless fellow,

Friend,

Everyone has his or her likings and dislikings for persons and things and you are free to hold your own estimation of the persons referred to in the post under reference.
But it is generally accepted fact that Dr. B.R Ambedkar and M K Gandhi did a lot for uplift of the down trodden people. Agreed that they were persons in flesh and blood and might have erred here and there but none can deny their contribution towards constitution making and freedom movement respectively.

Regards

[vicky84]

Dear Friend,


Need of the hour is every one comes forward to appreciate the multi-cultural, secular, democratic nature of Indian Nation as envisaged by founding fathers of the Indian Constitution. If anyone finds aberrations, he is free to knock at the doors of the highest body of judiciary and to take recourse to other remedial steps through constitutional methods. Then, in addition to other provisions, Right to Information Act is there to bring about transparency in the functioning of various organs of the State.



Respected Sir,

You are right in saying that anyone can knock the doors of the highest body of judiciary but our judicial system is also inept. Millions of cases are pending and current situation is so bad that if you appeal for something today, it may take forever to get the results. Respected sir, we do not need reforms. We need overhaul if we want to improve our system. There is a pending work of more than 64 years.


Regards,

[vicky84]

Nearly 30 million cases pending in courts

Over three million cases are pending in India's 21 high courts, and an astounding 26.3 million cases are pending in subordinate courts across the country.

At the same time, there are almost a quarter million under-trials languishing in jails across the country. Of these, some 2,069 have been in jail for more than five years, even as their guilt or innocence is yet to be ascertained.

This has been revealed by official figures emerging from the home ministry's department of justice, under a Right to Information Act application placed by a citizen.

It has also been found that over a quarter of all pending high court cases are at Allahabad.

The Allahabad High Court had some 1.09 million pending cases, with over eight out of every 10 cases being civil cases at the end of 2006. Meanwhile, the Supreme Court of India had a total of 39,780 civil and criminal pending cases at the end of last year.

Madras High Court (406,958 pending cases) and Bombay High Court (362,949) were the others with a large number of pending cases. Sikkim is the lowest with just 51 pending cases.

Of the pending cases in high courts, 704,214 were criminal and 3.2 million were civil cases.

In subordinate courts, Uttar Pradesh again topped the number of pending cases (4.6 million), followed by Maharashtra (4.1 million), Gujarat (3.9 million), West Bengal (1.9 million), Bihar (1.2 million), Karnataka (1.06 million), Rajasthan (1.05 million), Orissa (1 million), Andhra Pradesh (900,000).

In another query, the National Crime Records Bureau that functions under the home ministry told Hari Kumar P. of Kasargod in a Right to Information Act reply that the number of under-trials in India was highest in Maharashtra (15,784) and Madhya Pradesh (15,777).

Bihar (with 628 prisoners) topped the number of states with the maximum number of under-trials kept for over five years. Punjab also had 334 under-trials for over five years and Uttar Pradesh had 212. Delhi itself had 344 under-trials languishing in jails for over five years.

On the positive side, some states had no under-trials in jail for this long a period without their trials being completed. These states included Andhra Pradesh, Goa, Himachal Pradesh, Kerala, Manipur, Mizoram, Sikkim, Tamil Nadu, and Tripura, apart from some smaller states and union territories.

[vicky84]

Respected Sir,

Read my above post. It is shocking!!!!!!!!!


Thanks

[DrRajpalSingh]

Respected Sir,

You are right in saying that anyone can knock the doors of the highest body of judiciary but our judicial system is also inept. Millions of cases are pending and current situation is so bad that if you appeal for something today, it may take forever to get the results. Respected sir, we do not need reforms. We need overhaul if we want to improve our system. There is a pending work of more than 64 years.
Regards,
Dear Friend,
Indeed, our judiciary is over burdened and unending list of pending cases in the High Courts and Supreme Court needs immediate attention of the policy makers, because long delay in delivery of justice leads to anxiety and frustration in the minds of the people as the maxim goes: Justice delayed is justice denied.

Hence immediate corrective methods required.

Regards

[ygulia]

This is going on for long time, probably you came to know about it now. Do not blame judiciary for this backlog. Judiciary of India is the most over loaded workforce in the world and that too working with limited resources.
Why people do not ask questions regarding it to their local MLA/MP?
Why people do not ask about the progress?

who is responsible for it? no one else, the citizens of the country who just go and vote for brotherhood, friendship, vested interest etc.etc
No one think about the real problems..........., we should blame ourselves for this situation which is at present at alarming level and may go out of hand one day.


Respected Sir,

Read my above post. It is shocking!!!!!!!!!


Thanks

[akshaymalik84]

Delete this post. Thanks.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Delete this post. Thanks.

किम्मे चेंज होया अक सिस्टम ????

[vicky84]

किम्मे चेंज होया अक सिस्टम ????



इब्बे तो न्यू ए फैसला नि हो लिया द्रव्बैक सै कित. सिस्टम तै पाछे ठीक होवेगा! बाकी राकेश ​के बहुमूल्य विचार पै अमल लाना बुरा कोणी !! :applause:

[dahiyavijay7]

Dear Friend,

You are right that there is dire need of social reformation in which every member of the Indian society has to contribute his humble bit. But this process of social reformation takes shape gradually and paticence is required to see the results of this process as we have witnessed in the case of reforms movement started from the time of Raja Ram Mohan Roy in the mid 19th century and carried on by the greats like Swami Dayanand Saraswati, Vivekananda, Fule, Sir S.A. Khan, MK Gandhi, BR Ambedkar and others in the 20th Century India. The 21st century has yet to find emergence such titanic personality to salvage their sinking spirits.


The titans are here Mr. Narender Modi, Anna Hazare, Kejriwal and above all seething common man.

[dahiyavijay7]

Dear Friend,

Raja Ram Mohan Roy in the mid 19th century and carried on by the greats like Swami Dayanand Saraswati, Vivekananda, Fule, Sir S.A. Khan, MK Gandhi, BR Ambedkar and others in the 20th Century India.
Your ideas indicate that you are a Govt Agent or highly influenced by the congress like elite mindset otherwise you would not called these persons as titanic personality. Further, before the publications of books by congress giving inflated weightage to their contribution, they might not be leader of masses in their contemporary period. You forget the Bhagat singh and other such revolutionaries. Further it is only a matter of time, that those who were disregarded as castiest, non-secular by the corrupt media, surge as great nationalist leader.

[DrRajpalSingh]

The titans are here Mr. Narender Modi, Anna Hazare, Kejriwal and above all seething common man.

Your 'Titans' [except common man, who is always great] have to go miles before attaining the stature of the greats mentioned in my post.

Thanks.

[DrRajpalSingh]

Your ideas indicate that you are a Govt Agent or highly influenced by the congress like elite mindset otherwise you would not called these persons as titanic personality. Further, before the publications of books by congress giving inflated weightage to their contribution, they might not be leader of masses in their contemporary period. You forget the Bhagat singh and other such revolutionaries. Further it is only a matter of time, that those who were disregarded as castiest, non-secular by the corrupt media, surge as great nationalist leader.

The post under reference shows your poor power of judgement of men and their minds. Open up your mind and do not allege others without any rhyme or reason.

Except Gandhiji what other persons had to do with Congress to attain name and fame. Raja Ram Mohun Roy and Swami Dayananda Sarswati had passed away before 1885 when Congress was founded; and Fule, Ambedkar and SA Khan were also social reformers of great merit. Swami Vivekananda is all time great Saint of India.

Do not drag names of revolutionaries, my dear friend, to charge me of the crime which I have not committed. When and where did I say that Shahid-i-Azam Bhagat Singh was not great freedom fighter?

regards

[dahiyavijay7]

The post under reference shows your poor power of judgement of men and their minds. Open up your mind and do not allege others without any rhyme or reason.

Except Gandhiji what other persons had to do with Congress to attain name and fame. Raja Ram Mohun Roy and Swami Dayananda Sarswati had passed away before 1885 when Congress was founded; and Fule, Ambedkar and SA Khan were also social reformers of great merit. Swami Vivekananda is all time great Saint of India.

Do not drag names of revolutionaries, my dear friend, to charge me of the crime which I have not committed. When and where did I say that Shahid-i-Azam Bhagat Singh was not great freedom fighter?

regards
Dear Sir, The name of Fule and Ambedker remain on the lips of everybody, but nobody remember the contribution of Sir Chottu Ram and likes. The Fule and Ambedker do no good for the country except for his own caste/community, still he is regarded as national hero, whereas Sir Chottu Ram also devoted his life for the upliftment of poor farmers, his contribution is nullified. Further, Raja Ram Mohan Roy, Swami Dayananda Saraswati were elite class people, their contribution may be compared to the contribution made by the AAMIR KHAN. A person who has all the resources available at his disposal may easily give sermons, a person who has authority can force any instruction to be followed.

[DrRajpalSingh]

Dear Sir, The name of Fule and Ambedker remain on the lips of everybody, but nobody remember the contribution of Sir Chottu Ram and likes. The Fule and Ambedker do no good for the country except for his own caste/community, still he is regarded as national hero, whereas Sir Chottu Ram also devoted his life for the upliftment of poor farmers, his contribution is nullified. Further, Raja Ram Mohan Roy, Swami Dayananda Saraswati were elite class people, their contribution may be compared to the contribution made by the AAMIR KHAN. A person who has all the resources available at his disposal may easily give sermons, a person who has authority can force any instruction to be followed.

This would be a revelation to many to learn that Swami Dayananda worked for elite.

Raja Ram Mohun Roy, the Father of the Renassance in 19th century India was also working for general people and not the 'elite' only.


Yes Chhotu Ram was a great leader of his times of the Punjab and was fast emerging on the national scene as a man to be reckoned with great after his clash with stubborn MA Jinnah and also due to his stout rejection of the 'CR formula' initiated by C Rajagopalachari. But Alas! cruel hands of destiny cut his life short by snatching him from us and that is why he remains a great Rahabar-i-Azam as regional leader of northern India.

To compare these leaders with rich but non entities is not acceptable to any sane person.

Thanks.

[dahiyavijay7]

Only books
taught to us regard these people like Raja Ram Mohan Roy etc as great people
working for general people. Our book tell us that America and Britain as
great nation, but forget the contribution of Germans and Japanese and we buy
their story. Raja Ram Mohan Roy advocated the british policies and have taken
some steps to eradicate some social evils like Sati Pratha. But, we must not
forget the Jat emperor Harshvardhan who had prevented her sister from
committing Sati even before the birth of Raja Ram Mohan Roy. The contribution
of everybody is fine, but if we read the find print of Swami Dayanand
(Brahmin), Satyarth Prakash, he protested the worship of Ram, Krishan and
other Hindu dieties because in his opinion these were not Gods but Kshatriya Kings.

[DrRajpalSingh]

Dear friend,

We know about the achievements of all the people and nations of the world from the books and of late from computer related means; I do not know to which book are you referring about your source of this post! Raja Ram Mohun Roy and Swami Dayananda Saraswati's contribution in social reform movement has been immense and none can deny it.

Moreover, use internet for gaining access to good sources of information and please read good books on the history of the Modern World and you will be bewildered to learn about the achievements and contribution of Germany and Japan as well. For commenting on historical facts one has to go to this much length, so rise up and develop good reading habit. You have a sharp intellect and with a bit of extra labour can further develop your faculties in this field.

Wish you best reading!


P.S.: Both of us have derailed the discussion on thread, so permit me to say that leaving these personal discussions aside, it would be in the fitness of things to once again return to the theme of the thread. Thanks

[VikrantChodhary]

'SYSTEM' drawback(s) will FINISH - The moment ruling chair questions himself/herself :

" Who Am I to decide "

(Majorly in context of public decisions...)

[dahiyavijay7]

'SYSTEM' drawback(s) will FINISH - The moment ruling chair questions himself/herself :

" Who Am I to decide "

(Majorly in context of public decisions...)

System drawback should finish with apt solution. The drawback of the system shall be fixed only if we start protesting the wrong and supporting the right, which is not done by the people. Though we see protest every day, but these protests are not called, supported or accepted by common people, these protests are called mostly by selfish political parties, NGO's or other groups and do not necessarily carry the aim to bring any respite to the people. I every day see that nobody support the good people though Mob is immediately gathered for selfish goals, politicians/criminals get the road jams for illegal demands but people do not give any help to aggrieved common man. No single person could bring any change into the system and people do not unite for any cause without their selfish aim is one of the biggest problem coming into the way. Once I suggested some of my fellow passengers to visit the DRM of Northern Railway regarding late coming of trains leading to daily woes to us, but nobody was willing making one excuse or other, though everybody was suffering. And If somebody suggest them to an idea where there is some monetory or other personal benefit, everybody shall agree.