Nath Ram Godse Last Speech.............

[vikasJAT]

Aaj maine Nathu Ram Godse ki last speech suni,jo aap sabke sath share kar raha hu.........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0qRm-ayvfY&feature=related


P.S: Aaap kon kon mante hain ki Gandhi Ji ko maar kar Nathu Ram Godse ne thek kiya hai?????????????

[cutejaatsandeep]

Aaj maine Nathu Ram Godse ki last speech suni,jo aap sabke sath share kar raha hu.........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0qRm-ayvfY&feature=related


P.S: Aaap kon kon mante hain ki Gandhi Ji ko maar kar Nathu Ram Godse ne thek kiya hai?????????????
bhai mai maanta hu ki nathu ram godse ne bilkul thik kiyaa uss impotant gandhi ko marr kee..bhai teraaa kee maaaanaaa see?

[vikasJAT]

bhai mai maanta hu ki nathu ram godse ne bilkul thik kiyaa uss impotant gandhi ko marr kee..bhai teraaa kee maaaanaaa see?

main agree hu Nathu Ram Godse te jeebe mane yu link aade gera hai.........
ab ye dekhna hai kon kon agree hain????????

[deshi-jat]

Very mature speech. Use of pure Sanskritinized Hindi is really impressive! But I am not sure about authenticity of voice, is it his voice or is taken from some movie/play/drama?

[ravinderjeet]

में एग्री कोन्या भाई , में ते जब एग्री होन्दा जब उह खोते गांधी के कान ,नाक हाथ पाँ ,न्यारे-न्यारे मारे जांदे | तम समझ ते गए हो गे |

[vikasJAT]

में एग्री कोन्या भाई , में ते जब एग्री होन्दा जब उह खोते गांधी के कान ,नाक हाथ पाँ ,न्यारे-न्यारे मारे जांदे | तम समझ ते गए हो गे |

Ravinder bhai vo time pe maar diya vo e thek hai........na to ebb tak is desh ka bura haal ho jata.
jukar usme india aur pakistan bana diye nu e bera na is desh ne kitne parts me divide karta......uper te uska anhisa ka rule(jis te kimme ni hota aaj ki duniya me).

thek kara maar diya vo.

[swaich]

I find it ironical that Godse killed Gandhi for his perceived Muslim leanings and anti-Hindu behaviour, while Jinnah and his Muslim League sought to form a separate homeland for Muslims because they perceived Gandhi, Nehru and the Congress leadership as anti-Muslim!

Was it right to kill Gandhi? Did it serve any purpose? I feel the answer to both of these questions is No. Gandhi was already 78 years old and had retired from political life, so he wasnt in a position to influence anything. Godse's purpose was revenge for the division of the state. But it didnt solve anything.

[rekhasmriti]

Was that assassination justified ?
Absolutely Not.
Not because it was Gandhi but be it any one yar .

I may be not be well qualified enough to comment - still i guess i can share my opinion.

Buddy i have heard that speech many times and the reasoning was that Gandhi was a peace follower and non- violence.


Sir lath bajakar agar azadi milni hoti toh- 1857 se yahi kar rahe the-
kya choda- talwar chalai- bandook- top sab chodi kya milla

sab ram g ko pyare ho gaye

mano ya na mano- he was the d only one- who has used a different approach-
n yar it worked-

it was a straight challenge to those goras- hum hath nahi uthayenge- jo jee mei aaye karke dekh lo-

Please Note : I still think if we would have got independence Extremist way- India would have been at better place than now

It was all situational - agar Gandhi ko pata hota- aaj yeh sab hoga- toh i m sure he won't have followed non violence n peace.

One more thing Sirs- goli koi bhi chala sakta hai- few seconds - kuch gutts nahi chahiye uske liye

but apni galti na hote huye bhi- and physical strong hote huye bhi- Retaliate nahi karna " USSE GUTTS KEHTE HAI "

No offence to anybody's view.
Even though if some body felt offended- it was all unintentional- apologies for same .

Regards,
Rekha

[vikda]

Ahinsa Gandhi ki Majboori thi......wo waise bhi kise ke maar nahi saktaa tha!! Maaran khaatar bhi nyaara hanga chahiye......rahi baat lathiyaan khaane ki....Gandhi ko kabhi laathi nahi lagi....you can watch Movie Gandhi which is supposed to exaggerate everything but still it also has no such instance.....sabhi boodhe kehte hain "Hamne Gaandhi Ji ke saath Angrezo ki laathiyaan khayi hai"...par Gandhi ke nahi lagi ek bhi!!


Was that assassination justified ?
Absolutely Not.
Not because it was Gandhi but be it any one yar .

I may be not be well qualified enough to comment - still i guess i can share my opinion.

Buddy i have heard that speech many times and the reasoning was that Gandhi was a peace follower and non- violence.


Sir lath bajakar agar azadi milni hoti toh- 1857 se yahi kar rahe the-
kya choda- talwar chalai- bandook- top sab chodi kya milla

sab ram g ko pyare ho gaye

mano ya na mano- he was the d only one- who has used a different approach-
n yar it worked-

it was a straight challenge to those goras- hum hath nahi uthayenge- jo jee mei aaye karke dekh lo-

Please Note : I still think if we would have got independence Extremist way- India would have been at better place than now

It was all situational - agar Gandhi ko pata hota- aaj yeh sab hoga- toh i m sure he won't have followed non violence n peace.

One more thing Sirs- goli koi bhi chala sakta hai- few seconds - kuch gutts nahi chahiye uske liye

but apni galti na hote huye bhi- and physical strong hote huye bhi- Retaliate nahi karna " USSE GUTTS KEHTE HAI "

No offence to anybody's view.
Even though if some body felt offended- it was all unintentional- apologies for same .

Regards,
Rekha

[swaich]

Ahinsa Gandhi ki Majboori thi......wo waise bhi kise ke maar nahi saktaa tha!! Maaran khaatar bhi nyaara hanga chahiye......rahi baat lathiyaan khaane ki....Gandhi ko kabhi laathi nahi lagi....you can watch Movie Gandhi which is supposed to exaggerate everything but still it also has no such instance.....sabhi boodhe kehte hain "Hamne Gaandhi Ji ke saath Angrezo ki laathiyaan khayi hai"...par Gandhi ke nahi lagi ek bhi!!

Bhai keyboard pe likhna bahut aasaan hota hai. Ek aadmi ne apni saari zindagi desh ke liye laga di. Chahe tum uske tareeko se ittifaq na rakho par uski itni ninda to na karo ki uske yogdaan ko hi nakaar do.

[rekhasmriti]

Maran khatir kit ka hanga chahiye-

ek rikshe wala bhi mar de kisse ke -

sir g movie bhi dekhi hai- n biography bhi padhi

Gandhi ke bhi neere lage the- South Africa mei-

yahan aakar woh sabka leader ban gaya-

ab aap baato- apke guru ke koi maran aaoge- toh aap yun kahoge- uske marle pehle- bad mei mere mariyo

rather - you would take the beating first -
'sabki apni apni soch-
mei nehru ko mahan nahi manti

uski toh aish thi - pehla PM ban gaya-
abahi tak uska khandan India par raj karne lag raha hai - aur kya chahiye

but Gandhi- yar usne apne liye kuch nahi kiya- ghar choda
PM ban sakta tha- na bana

please think a little -

no offence to ur views sir g

Regards,

[Prikshit]

Was that assassination justified ?
Absolutely Not.
Not because it was Gandhi but be it any one yar .

I may be not be well qualified enough to comment - still i guess i can share my opinion.

Buddy i have heard that speech many times and the reasoning was that Gandhi was a peace follower and non- violence.


Sir lath bajakar agar azadi milni hoti toh- 1857 se yahi kar rahe the-
kya choda- talwar chalai- bandook- top sab chodi kya milla

sab ram g ko pyare ho gaye

mano ya na mano- he was the d only one- who has used a different approach-
n yar it worked-

it was a straight challenge to those goras- hum hath nahi uthayenge- jo jee mei aaye karke dekh lo-

Please Note : I still think if we would have got independence Extremist way- India would have been at better place than now

It was all situational - agar Gandhi ko pata hota- aaj yeh sab hoga- toh i m sure he won't have followed non violence n peace.

One more thing Sirs- goli koi bhi chala sakta hai- few seconds - kuch gutts nahi chahiye uske liye

but apni galti na hote huye bhi- and physical strong hote huye bhi- Retaliate nahi karna " USSE GUTTS KEHTE HAI "

No offence to anybody's view.
Even though if some body felt offended- it was all unintentional- apologies for same .

Regards,
Rekha

He made several decisions which proved fatal to our country. As an individual he was different and had his own aura and he made a contribution to our independence. But "Ahimsa" in its literal meaning was not totally what he used to follow. I don't see Nehru and his family would have existed in Indian politics without his support. Instead of asking "Was the assassination justified" question would have been "Are we really independent ? " Point here is he did a lot of good to us but also made several decisions which paralyzed our politics. Vision was something that was missing in his later life. I just kept my views about him, others may differ in their opinion.

[Prikshit]

Bhai keyboard pe likhna bahut aasaan hota hai. Ek aadmi ne apni saari zindagi desh ke liye laga di. Chahe tum uske tareeko se ittifaq na rakho par uski itni ninda to na karo ki uske yogdaan ko hi nakaar do.

Jaspreet.

The reason why people have a mix of views about him is clear "If a person of his stature made such decisions" for sure he will be targeted for that. I am not saying he was a bad person but knowingly or unknowingly he kept us in hands of Nehru's "More worse that Britishers".

[Prikshit]

Maran khatir kit ka hanga chahiye-

ek rikshe wala bhi mar de kisse ke -

sir g movie bhi dekhi hai- n biography bhi padhi

Gandhi ke bhi neere lage the- South Africa mei-

yahan aakar woh sabka leader ban gaya-

ab aap baato- apke guru ke koi maran aaoge- toh aap yun kahoge- uske marle pehle- bad mei mere mariyo

rather - you would take the beating first -
'sabki apni apni soch-
mei nehru ko mahan nahi manti

uski toh aish thi - pehla PM ban gaya-
abahi tak uska khandan India par raj karne lag raha hai - aur kya chahiye

but Gandhi- yar usne apne liye kuch nahi kiya- ghar choda
PM ban sakta tha- na bana

please think a little -

no offence to ur views sir g

Regards,

Understand it in simple terms "He was the Project Manager of the Project "Independence of India" he was responsible for bug free delivery of the Project". He completed his work but due to lack of his vision "Maintenance of the project was sidelined by him"

[swaich]

Jaspreet.

The reason why people have a mix of views about him is clear "If a person of his stature made such decisions" for sure he will be targeted for that. I am not saying he was a bad person but knowingly or unknowingly he kept us in hands of Nehru's "More worse that Britishers".

Prikshit bhai, what you and me have is the gift of hindsight. We can look back at events using contemporary lenses and say whether they turned out good or bad. Those people Nehru and Gandhi, I dont doubt their intentions. They were trying to do good for the country largely. Agreed they were humans and made mistakes. Gandhi was dictatorial as evidenced by his displeasure at Bose winning the Congress presidency and this led to Bose's ouster. Nehru is blamed for dividing the country. But what options do you have when the British are ready to grant independence but communal tempers have are charged up due to Muslim League activities and Jinnah's threat for Direct action day? Gain independence, albeit get divided or face large scale riots with a virtually ineffective police force already divided by communal lines.

[Sure]

Prikshit bhai, what you and me have is the gift of hindsight. We can look back at events using contemporary lenses and say whether they turned out good or bad. Those people Nehru and Gandhi, I dont doubt their intentions. They were trying to do good for the country largely. Agreed they were humans and made mistakes. Gandhi was dictatorial as evidenced by his displeasure at Bose winning the Congress presidency and this led to Bose's ouster. Nehru is blamed for dividing the country. But what options do you have when the British are ready to grant independence but communal tempers have are charged up due to Muslim League activities and Jinnah's threat for Direct action day? Gain independence, albeit get divided or face large scale riots with a virtually ineffective police force already divided by communal lines.

I agree with you Jaspreet, Gandhi is not at all responsible for todays condition of our country, we just like to put blame on others for this, we ourselves are responsible. Albiet Nehru is responsible somewhat as constuitution and foundation of all othere developments took place during his time. I agree that he got country in total broken state and it was very difficult at that time to unite country under those circumstances and put country in state line of strong democratic country. he was facing lots of problem and starting from surrounding borders to internal raja maharajas and other extermist outfits. It was after Lal Bahadur Shastri the condition of our country started detoriarting, Poltician were lacking in ethics and of less moral characters.

I dont say Nathuram Godse was not petriotic, he was and serving mother nation as per his views, whatever and better way he can, may be better future projections in mind and true to ground level.

what I like to say to Nathu Rams follower if they are true in sense, where they are now and why not taking actions if he can kill Gandhi (a true saint) why his followers are not following the same for currupt polticians who are responsible for current situation of our country things are very simple to say specially putting blame are much simpller.

[Sure]

Like name Gandhi is mligned in todays senerio, infact have no any relation to original Gandhi, similar way Original Gandhi was not at all responsible for todays condition.

Logon ka gussa original gandhi jaise aadmiyon ke hi uppar ootar sakta hain, nakliyon ke uppar nahi, oont ta bahut darr lagge sa, sirf bhonk sakte hain, yahan wahan, aur Original gandhi ko gali de sakte hain.

[vikasJAT]

All of you, who want to know why and how did he killed Gandhiji, Kindly read the book titled "Man who killed Gandhi" written by Colonel Manohar Malgaonkar. The book was banned during Congress Regime.

[vikasJAT]

Nathuram Godse -- Know the truth

Ambala Central Jail
Dated: Nov. 12, 1949

My Most Revered Parents:

My last humble salutations to you, I have your photo with me. While offering adorations to your photo I will be absolved in Brahma (The Almighty).

There will be no doubt that due to the wordly and practical relationship that existed between us, my death will certainly give you a terrible grief. But I am not at all writing this letter either due to the grief or to discuss about the grief.

You both are acquainted with the teachings of the Bhagavad Gita and have thoroughly studied our Mythologies.

Bhagavan Sri Krishna had preached the 'Gita'. The name Sri Krishna with his powerful weapon 'Sudarshan Chakra' had decapitated 'Sishupal', an Aryan King; not in the battlefield but on the land of the Rajasuya Yagna. Who can dare call this very act of Sri Krishna a sin?

Sri Krishna had killed so many persons both in wars and on other occasions for the sake of establishing universal happiness.

For the sake of one 'Seeta Devi' the Ramayana story was developed. Only for the sake of one 'Draupadi' the history of 'Maha Bharat' had been born.

Today, in front of our own eyes the chastity of thousands of women is being violated. The persons who are committing these monstrous atrocities on women, are being helped in all possible ways. In such horrible circumstances, either for fear of our lives or for fear of public criticism, it was not possible for me to be silent without doing anything.

I strongly believe that the blessings of thousands of women are backing me and substantiate my act.

I am laying down my sacrifice at the feet of my beloved Motherland. My sacrifice may cause a bit of a loss to our own family. But, the destructed, demolished temples, the heaps of decapitated heads, the cruel murders committed on boys and girls and the atrocities on women...are reeling every minute before my eyes. I felt it was my utmost duty to cut off the help that was being carried to the wicked committing these cruel deeds.

My mind is clean. Though many would entertain varied thoughts regarding my act, my mind is not perturbed even for the fraction of a second. If there is anything such as heaven, my place has been assured there and hence there is no necessity for me to offer a special prayer. If at all there is anything as such salvation, I am eligible to it.

I do not in the least wish to live at the mercy of amnesty. I feel that a life obtained by an act of mercy is the real death for me.

Death has not come in front of me. I myself have gone to the face of death. I am seeing with my smiling face, the Goddess of death. That Goddess of death also is so eagerly waiting to embrace me as a friend. Death has no power to distort the image of the 'realized ones', with sorrow.

To fulfil the dream of my ideal that, from the river 'Sindhu' to the seas, this whole land of Bharat should become independent...this body of mine must essentially die.

This self-sacrifice of mine for which the eyes of lakhs of people of this country that are shedding tears will share your sorrow.

Akhand Bharat Amar Rahe! Vande Mataram!!



Many Many Salutations to your feet,
Humbly Yours,

Nathuram.



"If devotion to one's country amounts to a sin, I admit I have committed that sin. If it is meritorious, I humbly claim the merit thereof. I fully and confidently believe that if there be any other court of justice beyond the one founded by the mortals, my act will not be taken as unjust. If after the death there be no such place to reach or to go, there is nothing to be said. I have resorted to the action I did purely for the benefit of the humanity. I do say that my shots were fired at the person whose policy and action had brought rack and ruin and destruction to lakhs of Hindus."

Shri Nathuram Godse

[vikasJAT]

ONE MORE ARTICLE RELATED TO NATHU RAM GODSE............


NATHU RAM GODSE'S SPEECH AT THE TRIAL



Nathuram Godse's speech at trial .. DO read it fully
Full text of Godse's speech at his trial.....

" On January 13, 1948, I learnt that Gandhiji had decided to go on fast unto
death. The reason given was that he wanted an assurance of Hindu-Muslim
Unity... But I and many others could easily see that the real motive...
[was] to compel the Dominion Government to pay the sum of Rs 55 crores to
Pakistan, the payment of which was emphatically refused by the
Government.... But this decision of the people's Government was reversed to
suit the tune of Gandhiji's fast. It was evident to my mind that the force
of public opinion was nothing but a trifle when compared with the leanings
of Gandhiji favourable to Pakistan.

....In 1946 or thereabout, Muslim atrocities perpetrated on Hindus under the
Government patronage of Surhawardy in Noakhali made our blood boil. Our
shame and indignation knew no bounds when we saw that Gandhiji had come
forward to shield that very Surhawardy and began to style him as 'Shaheed
Saheb' - a martyr - even in his prayer meetings...

....Gandhiji's influence in the Congress first increased and then became
supreme. His activities for public awakening were phenomenal in their
intensity and were reinforced by the slogans of truth and non-violence which
he ostentatiously paraded before the country... I could never conceive that
an armed resistance to the aggressor is unjust... Ram killed Ravan in a
tumultuous fight... Krishna killed Kansa to end his wickedness... In
condemning Shivaji, Rana Pratap and Guru Govind as 'misguided patriots,'
Gandhiji has merely exposed his self-conceit... Gandhiji was, paradoxically,
a violent pacifist who brought untold calamities on the country in the name
of truth and nonviolence, while Rana Pratap, Shivaji and the Guru will
remain enshrined in the hearts of their countrymen forever...

....By 1919, Gandhiji had become desperate in his endeavours to get the
Muslims to trust him and went from one absurd promise to another... He
backed the Khilafat movement in this country and was able to enlist the full
support of the National Congress in that policy... very soon the Moplah
Rebellion showed that the Muslims had not the slightest idea of national
unity... There followed a huge slaughter of Hindus... The British
Government, entirely unmoved by the rebellion, suppressed it in a few months
and left to Gandhiji the joy of his Hindu-Muslim Unity... British
Imperialism emerged stronger, the Muslims became more fanatical, and the
consequences were visited on the Hindus...

The accumulating provocation of 32 years, culminating in his last pro-Muslim
fast, at last goaded me to the conclusion that the existence of Gandhiji
should be brought to an end immediately... he developed a subjective
mentality under which he alone was the final judge of what was right or
wrong... Either Congress had to surrender its will to him and play second
fiddle to all his eccentricity, whimsicality... or it had to carry on
without him... He was the master brain guiding the civil disobedience
movement... The movement may succeed or fail; it may bring untold disasters
and political reverses, but that could make no difference to the Mahatma's
infallibility... These childish inanities and obstinacies, coupled with a
most severe austerity of life, ceaseless work and lofty character, made
Gandhiji formidable and irresistible... In a position of such absolute
irresponsibility, Gandhiji was guilty of blunder after blunder...

....The Mahatma even supported the separation of Sindh from the Bombay
Presidency and threw the Hindus of Sindh to the communal wolves. Numerous
riots took place in Karachi, Sukkur, Shikarpur and other places in which the
Hindus were the only sufferers...

....From August 1946 onwards, the private armies of the Muslim League began
a massacre of the Hindus... Hindu blood began to flow from Bengal to Karachi
with mild reactions in the Deccan... The Interim government formed in
September was sabotaged by its Muslim League members, but the more they
became disloyal and treasonable to the government of which they were a part,
the greater was Gandhi's infatuation for them...

....The Congress, which had boasted of its nationalism and socialism,
secretly accepted Pakistan and abjectly surrendered to Jinnah. India was
vivisected and one-third of the Indian territory became foreign land to
us... This is what Gandhiji had achieved after 30 years of undisputed
dictatorship, and this is what Congress party calls 'freedom'...

....One of the conditions imposed by Gandhiji for his breaking of the fast
unto death related to the mosques in Delhi occupied by Hindu refugees. But
when Hindus in Pakistan were subjected to violent attacks he did not so much
as utter a single word to protest and censure the Pakistan government...

Gandhi is being referred to as the Father of the Nation. But if that is so,
he had failed his paternal duty inasmuch as he has acted very treacherously
to the nation by his consenting to the partitioning of it... The people of
this country were eager and vehement in their opposition to Pakistan. But
Gandhiji played false with the people...

....I shall be totally ruined, and the only thing I could expect from the
people would be nothing but hatred... if I were to kill Gandhiji. But at the
same time, I felt that Indian politics in the absence of Gandhiji would
surely be proved practical, able to retaliate, and be powerful with armed
forces. No doubt, my own future would be totally ruined, but the nation
would be saved from the inroads of Pakistan...

....I do say that my shots were fired at the person whose policy and action
had brought rack and ruin and destruction to millions of Hindus... There was
no legal machinery by which such an offender could be brought to book, and
for this reason I fired those fatal shots...

....I do not desire any mercy to be shown to me... I did fire shots at
Gandhiji in open daylight. I did not make any attempt to run away; in fact I
never entertained any idea of running away. I did not try to shoot myself...
for, it was my ardent desire to give vent to my thoughts in an open Court.
My confidence about the moral side of my action has not been shaken even by
the criticism levelled of against it on all sides. I have no doubt, honest
writers of history will weigh my act and find the true value thereof some
day in future. "

[rekhasmriti]

Here I agree-

Vision was missing- or was not appropriate

however as per the situations that time- everything was justified-
which prove to big disaster nowadays

Regards,

[vikasJAT]

Dear Friends,

I have been able to get the whole text of the speech by Godse on following link;

http://library.thinkquest.org/26523/...s/nathuram.htm

[rekhasmriti]

Maintenance sirf Project Leader ki responsibilty nahi hoti

complete Team ( India) equally responsible

[rekhasmriti]

Hmmmmm- u meant do what Nathuram has done

Sir -- its an invitation to Something bid chaos

just imagine- for every revolution- we need to shed blood-

but the question is " Do we have gutts to do same " what bhagat singh n all did-

no way sir - we are busy with our personal lives- ambitions- comfort-who cares

we are selfish-----specially my generation- ghar baith kar discussion kar sakte hai
kissi bhi social site- par facts de sakte hai

but jab ladne ki bari aayegi - sab ghar ho lenge ( including me )

gutts- patriotism- selflessness- cooperation - long gone traits of Indians

Sirs- nothing personal- i m talking abt me n my generation

n ladai ek se nahi jeeti jati- sab ko ladna padta hai


Regards,

[rekhasmriti]

Absolute Extremist way !!!!!!!!!!!

sir g- agar is sabka- 1% bhi sach hai toh-

i guess we were all fools- victim of big conspiracy-

nehru n other leaders- they hid this from us-
to avoid chaos- hide the truth

yar - koi concrete reason nahi hai nathuram ke favor mei hai na against mei-

just assumptions- n never ever assume
that invite trouble


Still - joi bhi tha

Gandhi ka jadoo tha- conspiracy thi- smartness thi- or whatever

woh lekar kuch nahi gaya- jab ki sab kuch le sakta tha

n usne apna kiya n apne pariwar ka-

bas desh ka kiya

n please do not ignore- it was his Principles because of which we got independence- yeh hum deny nahi kar sakte hai

else South Africa- hong kong ke tarah sabse late milti independence-

He was not god- so huyee hongi usse galti- its ok- sabse hoti hai

but apan koi self interest nahi tha uska

n regarding Nathuram-

sir g- absolute act of anger

mere gussa uth jaye- n mere hath mei bandook ho-
toh mei bhi chala doongi

Regards,

[Sure]

Hmmmmm- u meant do what Nathuram has done

Sir -- its an invitation to Something bid chaos

just imagine- for every revolution- we need to shed blood-

but the question is " Do we have gutts to do same " what bhagat singh n all did-

no way sir - we are busy with our personal lives- ambitions- comfort-who cares

we are selfish-----specially my generation- ghar baith kar discussion kar sakte hai
kissi bhi social site- par facts de sakte hai

but jab ladne ki bari aayegi - sab ghar ho lenge ( including me )

gutts- patriotism- selflessness- cooperation - long gone traits of Indians

Sirs- nothing personal- i m talking abt me n my generation

n ladai ek se nahi jeeti jati- sab ko ladna padta hai


Regards,
"NO" in capital letters, what I want that people must understand the way what he had done. My invitation is just understand the consequences of what they are favoring, can they realy stand for such things. Peaceful protest is the only and BEST way to come to the desired results and not the violence. there will be violence but that will be only from govt side which like to act as dictator, But such Govts will come down only by peaceful protests and not by violence. People can make fun of Gandhi Ji can abuse him as everyone knows he is not going to respond back but do not have guts to stand infront of currupt polticians and govt, being afraid of results. Peaceful protests are always recognised by each and everyone in world and unite peoples.

There are very few follower of Gandhi ji, if 20% will become like him u find there will be no curruption at any level in govt and private sectors and others will be inspired by these. its very easy to become Godse but not Gandhi ji. I hope msg is clear.

[swaich]

I agree with you Jaspreet, Gandhi is not at all responsible for todays condition of our country, we just like to put blame on others for this, we ourselves are responsible. Albiet Nehru is responsible somewhat as constuitution and foundation of all othere developments took place during his time. I agree that he got country in total broken state and it was very difficult at that time to unite country under those circumstances and put country in state line of strong democratic country. he was facing lots of problem and starting from surrounding borders to internal raja maharajas and other extermist outfits. It was after Lal Bahadur Shastri the condition of our country started detoriarting, Poltician were lacking in ethics and of less moral characters.

I dont say Nathuram Godse was not petriotic, he was and serving mother nation as per his views, whatever and better way he can, may be better future projections in mind and true to ground level.

what I like to say to Nathu Rams follower if they are true in sense, where they are now and why not taking actions if he can kill Gandhi (a true saint) why his followers are not following the same for currupt polticians who are responsible for current situation of our country things are very simple to say specially putting blame are much simpller.

Absolutely, it is a bit illogical and self serving to rest the whole blame on politicians, especially in a democracy. Every 5 years, people got a chance to re evaluate Nehru or his party and they re elected him for 3 consecutive elections. We can say our previous generations were illiterate and not well educated, but then what about us? We all hate the congress, yet it has twice come to power and look at the results. So change oneself, change people around you and only then can we blame others.

[rekhasmriti]

Sir g ,

Agar mei aaj se 50 saal pehle paida hoti toh- mei pakka apke views se agree karti

Aaj ke time mei- Nuclear age mei -

u accept me go for peaceful protest

n to be honest - yes we do not have gutts n no time ofcourse , no patience , we are rather selfish

so i have 2 choices- ghar baitho - enjoy the show

or goli chaalo- n aar ya par -

ya toh bat ban jayegi ya phir mei khatm ho jaoongi

thats it







"NO" in capital letters, what I want that people must understand the way what he had done. My invitation is just understand the consequences of what they are favoring, can they realy stand for such things. Peaceful protest is the only and BEST way to come to the desired results and not the violence. there will be violence but that will be only from govt side which like to act as dictator, But such Govts will come down only by peaceful protests and not by violence. People can make fun of Gandhi Ji can abuse him as everyone knows he is not going to respond back but do not have guts to stand infront of currupt polticians and govt, being afraid of results. Peaceful protests are always recognised by each and everyone in world and unite peoples.

There are very few follower of Gandhi ji, if 20% will become like him u find there will be no curruption at any level in govt and private sectors and others will be inspired by these. its very easy to become Godse but not Gandhi ji. I hope msg is clear.

[rekhasmriti]

As per my memory-

joh peaceful protest mujhe yad hai woh

ek kuch saal pehle hua - reservation ke nam par -
mei bhi gayee thi mombatti le kar-
kya hua- dhakke kha kar aa gaye-
time waste- energy waste- jo khoon jalaya woh toh bhool hi jao

2nd - sir g yeh lok pal wala

abhi tak toh kuch nahi hua hai

n sir please keep a note of my words -

agar hum contact mei rahe thru JL -

kuch hoga bhi nahi-not for next 50-70 years -

uske bad pata nahi

the kind of situation we r in-
peace will not work -

ya toh chup raho- n wait kab pani sar ke upar se guzar jaye

else start fighting with bullets

I m not against of Gandhi - sir g - woh Zamana koi aur tha -

yeh koi aur - us time Moderates view kam kar gaya

aaj Extremist view kam karega

Please sir - no offence

Regards,




"NO" in capital letters, what I want that people must understand the way what he had done. My invitation is just understand the consequences of what they are favoring, can they realy stand for such things. Peaceful protest is the only and BEST way to come to the desired results and not the violence. there will be violence but that will be only from govt side which like to act as dictator, But such Govts will come down only by peaceful protests and not by violence. People can make fun of Gandhi Ji can abuse him as everyone knows he is not going to respond back but do not have guts to stand infront of currupt polticians and govt, being afraid of results. Peaceful protests are always recognised by each and everyone in world and unite peoples.

There are very few follower of Gandhi ji, if 20% will become like him u find there will be no curruption at any level in govt and private sectors and others will be inspired by these. its very easy to become Godse but not Gandhi ji. I hope msg is clear.

[swaich]

As per my memory-

joh peaceful protest mujhe yad hai woh

ek kuch saal pehle hua - reservation ke nam par -
mei bhi gayee thi mombatti le kar-
kya hua- dhakke kha kar aa gaye-
time waste- energy waste- jo khoon jalaya woh toh bhool hi jao

2nd - sir g yeh lok pal wala

abhi tak toh kuch nahi hua hai

n sir please keep a note of my words -

agar hum contact mei rahe thru JL -

kuch hoga bhi nahi-not for next 50-70 years -

uske bad pata nahi

the kind of situation we r in-
peace will not work -

ya toh chup raho- n wait kab pani sar ke upar se guzar jaye

else start fighting with bullets

I m not against of Gandhi - sir g - woh Zamana koi aur tha -

yeh koi aur - us time Moderates view kam kar gaya

aaj Extremist view kam karega

Please sir - no offence

Regards,

Us waqt 2 World war hue the, aur aap kehti hain zamana moderate view ke liye conducive tha?

There is no zamana for non-violence protests, if they are focused and sustained. Prime example is the anti-corruption movement by the likes of Anna Hazare. People protested in overwhleming numbers and govt had to yield to its demands of re-evaluating the Lokpal bill. The fight isnt over yet as the govt. is again playing games which is making people give up. But the freedom fighters fought on for 30 years against a number of setbacks and ups and downs and the current protest havent been around for 30 months! An effort for change require patience and sustained focus and efforts.

[Samarkadian]

Bullets?

Girl, Koi police case face kiya hai kabhi ya bas keyboard se hi goliya chalani aati hai?

Net per AAG likh dene se kahin aag nahi lag jaati.


As per my memory-

joh peaceful protest mujhe yad hai woh

ek kuch saal pehle hua - reservation ke nam par -
mei bhi gayee thi mombatti le kar-
kya hua- dhakke kha kar aa gaye-
time waste- energy waste- jo khoon jalaya woh toh bhool hi jao

2nd - sir g yeh lok pal wala

abhi tak toh kuch nahi hua hai

n sir please keep a note of my words -

agar hum contact mei rahe thru JL -

kuch hoga bhi nahi-not for next 50-70 years -

uske bad pata nahi

the kind of situation we r in-
peace will not work -

ya toh chup raho- n wait kab pani sar ke upar se guzar jaye

else start fighting with bullets

I m not against of Gandhi - sir g - woh Zamana koi aur tha -

yeh koi aur - us time Moderates view kam kar gaya

aaj Extremist view kam karega

Please sir - no offence

Regards,

[rekhasmriti]

Sir g ,

I was giving that reference with respect to India -

n if would consider it globally - even now - if u would look at some African countries - violence is at peak

that means there was never a scope for nonviolence then n now there is not ofcourse-


still - irrespective of world wars-- India did get its freedom coz of Peace .


n for now - Anna n followres-

sir g , let me honest - i m not against - but i have the extremist view

" There is no zamana for non-violence protests, if they are focused and sustained"

so u meant agar hum focussed nahi hai- sustained nahi hai-- tabhi we use violence-

Hmmmmmm- I diasgree- lets talk globally -
American war of Independence-- no peaceful march rather fight n win



current protest havent been around for 30 months! An effort for change require patience and sustained focus and efforts.

n mei 70 years keh rahi- ( ram g ki dya rahi toh itna jeeyoongi pakka)-
tab pata chal jayega- kaun - kya lokpal bill-------

sir g we r missing missing is the direction- leader - focus -
apko aisa lagta hai - ki anna g ke anshan par joh bheed lagee thi woh - dedicated peace followers the- no way sir-

sir g mei bhi simple yahin keh rahi ho-

ki anshan se - peace se ab kuch nahi hoga-

what i m missing - is a leader- logic- focus - self less - so much other things

n i know - i m pretty sure - kuch nahi hona lokpal ka-

Biggest difference - 1947 mei hum Angrezon se lade the - humare koi nahi lagte the

ab hum jinse ladne ka soch rahe hai - woh sare indians hai - hum hai -
apno se ladte waqt toh - Arjun tak ghabra gaya tha- hum kya cheez hai

jitna- sochenge- patient honge- utna hi fansenge


so sir 1 blow- hit it damn hard- n u win the war


Sir g , please no offence

if u felt that way- was truly unintentional -
accept aplogies for same

Regards,



Us waqt 2 World war hue the, aur aap kehti hain zamana moderate view ke liye conducive tha?

There is no zamana for non-violence protests, if they are focused and sustained. Prime example is the anti-corruption movement by the likes of Anna Hazare. People protested in overwhleming numbers and govt had to yield to its demands of re-evaluating the Lokpal bill. The fight isnt over yet as the govt. is again playing games which is making people give up. But the freedom fighters fought on for 30 years against a number of setbacks and ups and downs and the current protest havent been around for 30 months! An effort for change require patience and sustained focus and efforts.








Us waqt 2 World war hue the, aur aap kehti hain zamana moderate view ke liye conducive tha?

There is no zamana for non-violence protests, if they are focused and sustained. Prime example is the anti-corruption movement by the likes of Anna Hazare. People protested in overwhleming numbers and govt had to yield to its demands of re-evaluating the Lokpal bill. The fight isnt over yet as the govt. is again playing games which is making people give up. But the freedom fighters fought on for 30 years against a number of setbacks and ups and downs and the current protest havent been around for 30 months! An effort for change require patience and sustained focus and efforts.

[rekhasmriti]

hahahhahha

Net per AAG likh dene se kahin aag nahi lag jaati.

sir g - i know that - i have this problem of getting carried away so easily n over reacting -

no way sir - koi police case face nahi kiya

aaj tak ek red light bhi jump nahi ki-

but thode extreme views n bas wahi expess kar rahi thi

n please i guess what u must be thinking " keyboard par koi bhi likh sakta hai- jab chalane ki bari aayegi toh ghr par hogi "

yeh mei already admit kar chuki - hoon

i m most selfish person

No offence again sir

Regards,








Bullets?

Girl, Koi police case face kiya hai kabhi ya bas keyboard se hi goliya chalani aati hai?

Net per AAG likh dene se kahin aag nahi lag jaati.

[rekhasmriti]

I wanna clear one more thing-

as per the topic of thread - I was against of what Nathuram has done

coz i find his way of dealing with it - was an act of anger - dissatisfaction

we did get independence thru Peaceful way - thnx to Gandhi g for that

how ever - ab bhool jao - as per aaj ka time not possible to follow peace

aaj corruption n all that- humare bhai bandhoo hi kar rahe hai-
unse ladne woh bhi - peaceful way n bhaichare mei -

ho liya

please guys to offence to nyone

if unintentionally i hurt some one's feelings-

please accept apologies for same -

Regards,

[Sure]

I dont want to quote any of your post here, Rekha, You know you are over reacting that is enough to understand. Josh mei Hosh nahi bhoolna chahiye because seriously we have a war to fight at least for the betterment of our next generation. Our forfathers fought for us and we must for our coming generation if we like to give them some better life. You said," so sir 1 blow- hit it damn hard- n u win the war". Negative it is not like that, it is "hit first, hit hard and keep on hitting" this way you will win the war but you will be always in war , so mind it.

As per todays senerio, just keep your eye on your target, speak softly and keep a long stick and you will go far and will win this war. (please do not take stick for hitting someone here). thanks

[DrRajpalSingh]

......please guys to offence to nyone

if unintentionally i hurt some one's feelings-

please accept apologies for same -

Regards,

Dear JatLander,

Why do you end almost all the posts with the lines quoted herein above. This shows on the one hand you are not sure about what you are writing or try to show that it is being done unintentionally. But to my mind, frequently indulgence in such stereo-type 'apologies' have lost their meaning and impact.
This also shows that you are knowingly targeting someone or everyone through your pin pranks. It is good at times but not acceptable at all times by all

Again why are you bent upon not to adhere to your own preaching contained in your very first few posts that people are corrupting English.

Nonetheless, rest assured, this has been posted only to sound a note of caution for your pondering over these points before posting your views. No doubt you have final say in the matter and I respect your right to express yourself in whatever manner you like.

Regards

[swaich]

Sir g ,

I was giving that reference with respect to India -

n if would consider it globally - even now - if u would look at some African countries - violence is at peak

that means there was never a scope for nonviolence then n now there is not ofcourse-


still - irrespective of world wars-- India did get its freedom coz of Peace .


n for now - Anna n followres-

sir g , let me honest - i m not against - but i have the extremist view

" There is no zamana for non-violence protests, if they are focused and sustained"

so u meant agar hum focussed nahi hai- sustained nahi hai-- tabhi we use violence-

Hmmmmmm- I diasgree- lets talk globally -
American war of Independence-- no peaceful march rather fight n win



current protest havent been around for 30 months! An effort for change require patience and sustained focus and efforts.

n mei 70 years keh rahi- ( ram g ki dya rahi toh itna jeeyoongi pakka)-
tab pata chal jayega- kaun - kya lokpal bill-------

sir g we r missing missing is the direction- leader - focus -
apko aisa lagta hai - ki anna g ke anshan par joh bheed lagee thi woh - dedicated peace followers the- no way sir-

sir g mei bhi simple yahin keh rahi ho-

ki anshan se - peace se ab kuch nahi hoga-

what i m missing - is a leader- logic- focus - self less - so much other things

n i know - i m pretty sure - kuch nahi hona lokpal ka-

Biggest difference - 1947 mei hum Angrezon se lade the - humare koi nahi lagte the

ab hum jinse ladne ka soch rahe hai - woh sare indians hai - hum hai -
apno se ladte waqt toh - Arjun tak ghabra gaya tha- hum kya cheez hai

jitna- sochenge- patient honge- utna hi fansenge


so sir 1 blow- hit it damn hard- n u win the war


Sir g , please no offence

if u felt that way- was truly unintentional -
accept aplogies for same

Regards,

Its good you quoted the American War of independence. And you are right they did get their freedom via violence. Fair enough, violence worked. But have you thought where did that violence lead them? A country founded on violence can never ever ensue violence free lives for its citizens. Americans are still fighting wars, now all over the world. Fear is so much ingrained in them that violence is the only recourse they know. They have random shootings in schools, colleges and malls by deranged individuals who have easy access to the gun. You can learn more about America's cycle of violence, fear and guns by watching Michael Moore's documentary 'Bowling for Columbine'. So we can solve a lot of things by violence, but violence has a lot of unintended and far reaching consequences that come to light later but remain ingrained for generations.

Violence is a short-cut. Non-violence on the other hand is pure perseverance and stead fast adherence. You spoke about Africa. We had Nelson Mandela and his ANP winning equal rights for blacks in South Africa through non-violent means. And mins you, ANP pretty much had a military wing initially and didnt shy away from bombings and killings of white officials. But they changed tactics when violence didnt work.

And coming back to Lokpal movement. It is not the panacea to the problems facing our country. It may not even be able to solve corruption fully by itself. But what it represents is a good start. Who knows even the appointed Lokpal may turn out to be corrupt as in our country implementation rather than the laws itself are at fault. But at least we will have a law! Something is better than noting.

[rekhasmriti]

Dear Rajpal ,

My posts shows exactly the kind of person I am -
the reason why I always mention "apologies for same " - not because - I am not sure of what I am saying
neither I am pin pointing anyone . It is just because I don't want to hurt anyone;s feelings- many people do have the tendency of taking these personally -
In order to avoid that - I always mentioned that those are just my views - n i did not intend to hurt someone's feelings

now the next Corrupting english - i was adviced my some fellow members- please do not say much about grammar n all that- objective is to express my views - not find mistakes
i kind of agree with them- so correct- incorrect- hindi- haryanvi- english - who cares-

I may be very Ziddi- but not rigid like many of Jats -
agar kissi ki bat sahi hai- toh Smriti- bina when , how, what , why pooche man jayegi

Like i have done before--i agree with the suggestion i was given - please focus on Expressing of Views not Language .

as long as express your views - u r good yar .

Again sir - no offence-
accept apologies in case i said something which u don't like

( I guess meri har ek post par kuch na kuch aisa zaroor hota hai- toh kissi ko pasand nahi aata- i guess it is kinda gr8 - Koi toh hai yahan par - jo sabse alag sochta hai
ab sare Han karenge toh whats the point of discussion- jab conclusion already decided hai )

Regards,



Dear JatLander,

Why do you end almost all the posts with the lines quoted herein above. This shows on the one hand you are not sure about what you are writing or try to show that it is being done unintentionally. But to my mind, frequently indulgence in such stereo-type 'apologies' have lost their meaning and impact.
This also shows that you are knowingly targeting someone or everyone through your pin pranks. It is good at times but not acceptable at all times by all

Again why are you bent upon not to adhere to your own preaching contained in your very first few posts that people are corrupting English.

Nonetheless, rest assured, this has been posted only to sound a note of caution for your pondering over these points before posting your views. No doubt you have final say in the matter and I respect your right to express yourself in whatever manner you like.

Regards

[rekhasmriti]

Dear Sir ,

Not that I am being flattery - but I guess this is the only post according to me- from past 8-9 days , which I have found absolute logical -
something- like Han bhi and Na bhi types -
not ur way not my way rather " Mid Way "

- I m not much of US fan - but whatever is happening there - sir g yahan bhi ho raha hai -
bas news mei thoda kam hai

yahan bhi so many naxalites villages mei - north eastern states - bachein apne pas guns rakhte hai

humne toh azadi Peace n Non Violence se li thi - so why this all is happening to us - hum toh Shanti ke Pujari the or hai - whatever???????

2nd thing-- again i know I m most difficult person - Jat with entirely different view or perspective-

i have this simple rule- ya toh koi bat shurru nahi karni- n kar di toh jab tak khatam nahi - tab tak sans nahi-

again i said earlier - i m not against of Lokpal-
but again kuch nahi hona- siway Anna g ke - everybody is craving for some national Pehchan

aaj Anna g ko alag kar do- phir dekhlo - kitni bheed ikatahi hoti hai

what anna g has done in Maharashtra- was amazing - but sir k chota sa gaon hai- kitne log -100-200-
n lemme tell u - he is not aware of National Level Scenarios- Conditions- no knowledge at all

there was a time- jab meine bhi parche bante hai lokpal ke- but now i realise- yar bas publicity ka funda hai

what was all that bakwas- in hisar election- jo lokpal ka samrthan nahi karega hum usse vote nahi denge- rubbish - absolute childish -


For corruption free state- we need laeders- not bills- n laws

Gujarat - Bihar are example of it-
they are growing- developing- n people are happy

taht clearly shows- leader of the sate be it CM or Pm-

only he can bring a change-

so why create chaos with all that lokpal jazz ..


May i m lacking Vision - but I so damn sure -
kuch nahi hona peace se - non violence se

Now only time can answer - who is right mei ya u all -

jo bhi hai fayada hum dono ka hi hai .

Again sir- no offence

Regards,







































Its good you quoted the American War of independence. And you are right they did get their freedom via violence. Fair enough, violence worked. But have you thought where did that violence lead them? A country founded on violence can never ever ensue violence free lives for its citizens. Americans are still fighting wars, now all over the world. Fear is so much ingrained in them that violence is the only recourse they know. They have random shootings in schools, colleges and malls by deranged individuals who have easy access to the gun. You can learn more about America's cycle of violence, fear and guns by watching Michael Moore's documentary 'Bowling for Columbine'. So we can solve a lot of things by violence, but violence has a lot of unintended and far reaching consequences that come to light later but remain ingrained for generations.

Violence is a short-cut. Non-violence on the other hand is pure perseverance and stead fast adherence. You spoke about Africa. We had Nelson Mandela and his ANP winning equal rights for blacks in South Africa through non-violent means. And mins you, ANP pretty much had a military wing initially and didnt shy away from bombings and killings of white officials. But they changed tactics when violence didnt work.

And coming back to Lokpal movement. It is not the panacea to the problems facing our country. It may not even be able to solve corruption fully by itself. But what it represents is a good start. Who knows even the appointed Lokpal may turn out to be corrupt as in our country implementation rather than the laws itself are at fault. But at least we will have a law! Something is better than noting.

[rekhasmriti]

Sir g ,

Ok - sirg meine bhi king brice n spider on the wall ki story school mei padhi thi-

theek hai - focussed toh mere alawa i guess sare hai -
lokpal ka terget be set hai-
they are following peace n non violence as well-

dekhte hai - when we would win the war - i do have 70 years with me -

Sir g again no offence-

Regards,




I dont want to quote any of your post here, Rekha, You know you are over reacting that is enough to understand. Josh mei Hosh nahi bhoolna chahiye because seriously we have a war to fight at least for the betterment of our next generation. Our forfathers fought for us and we must for our coming generation if we like to give them some better life. You said," so sir 1 blow- hit it damn hard- n u win the war". Negative it is not like that, it is "hit first, hit hard and keep on hitting" this way you will win the war but you will be always in war , so mind it.

As per todays senerio, just keep your eye on your target, speak softly and keep a long stick and you will go far and will win this war. (please do not take stick for hitting someone here). thanks

[tarzon]

I don't agree...

NathuRam Godse was a cold blooded murderer...nothing else.

[vikda]

Nathu Ram Godse participated in various Freedom Movements also and had his share of hardships/sufferings in those as other proclaimed fellows. Deciding to kill Gandhi must not have been easy for him as he knew that his coming generations would have to suffer because of his decision, his all efforts for Freedom Movements would be forgotten and he along with his future generations would be labelled as GADDAR. Still he had lot of guts to Decide to Kill Gandhi.

[rekhasmriti]

meine school mei padha tha-

1 bura kam -1000 ache kam khatam kar deta hai

Regards,





Nathu Ram Godse participated in various Freedom Movements also and had his share of hardships/sufferings in those as other proclaimed fellows. Deciding to kill Gandhi must not have been easy for him as he knew that his coming generations would have to suffer because of his decision, his all efforts for Freedom Movements would be forgotten and he along with his future generations would be labelled as GADDAR. Still he had lot of guts to Decide to Kill Gandhi.

[rekhasmriti]

gutts - goli chalani mei lagta hai -

bas trigger hi toh dabana hai koi daba de

Regards,




Nathu Ram Godse participated in various Freedom Movements also and had his share of hardships/sufferings in those as other proclaimed fellows. Deciding to kill Gandhi must not have been easy for him as he knew that his coming generations would have to suffer because of his decision, his all efforts for Freedom Movements would be forgotten and he along with his future generations would be labelled as GADDAR. Still he had lot of guts to Decide to Kill Gandhi.

[vikasJAT]

main to ek he baat manta hu ki aazadi akele Gandhi se ni mili......isme sabse jyda yogdaan karantikariyo ka tha jinhone angrezo k naak me dum kiya hua tha.
Gandhi ki vajah se to humare kuch karantikari saheed hue the.

Gandhi k yogdaan ko sab yaad karte hain,usi k ghar wale politics k naam per desh loot rahe hain.
Un karantikariyo ko kon yaad kar raha hai jinhone apni jaan tak de di.
Gandhi ka photo har note per hai....kisi karantikari ka kyu ni hai?
Gandhi ki photo ko sansad bhawan, court etc etc me laga rakha hai, balki karantikariyo k naam k road bana diye baat khatam kar di.
Jitni importance Gandhi ko di jati h utni he importance subhash, chendra shekhar inko kyu ni di jati?????????
Jab Pakistan bana to sabhi mushalmano ko waha bhaga rahe the,Gandhi ne kaha "jo mushalman bhai yaha rehna chahte hain vo yaha reh sakte hain".....aur aaj dekho yehi mulle India me aatankwad faila rahe hain.

P.S: Bot acha kiya jo Gandhi ka Godse ne maar diya,main to kehta hu bot pehle he maar dete.

[vikasJAT]

gutts - goli chalani mei lagta hai -

bas trigger hi toh dabana hai koi daba de

Regards,

Rekha ji goli chalane me sirf trigger ni dabana padta himmat aur dil b hona chahiye.
jiski pistol dekhte he dhoti gilli hoti ho vo kya trigger dabayega.......(in case ko Gandhi)

kabhi chala k dekhna pata lag jyega....bande ne hangha hona chahiye.

[vikasJAT]

Maintenance sirf Project Leader ki responsibilty nahi hoti

complete Team ( India) equally responsible

Gandhi family to aaj b politics me hai.....inhone desh ka kitna kalyan kar diya????????
sara desh to inhone e loot k kha liya.

[vikasJAT]

eb baar mane kitte Rajiv Gandhi ka poster lagya dekha tha usper kuch wordings likhi thi ki uska sapna is desh ko kaisa banae ka h.....aur Sonia Gandhi usne pura karegi...(Exact wording yaad ni hain).
Per inke kaam dekh k to yo e lage h ki uska sapna tha foreign banks me apne accounts bharna jo Sonia bakhubi pura kar rahi hai.....desh ko politics k kichad se ace se nehlana jo ye kar rahe hain,inhone to khud apne ghar me b ek dusre se politics kheli h to desh inka k lage hain.

[rekhasmriti]

Correction --------------------

yeh sare Nehru- ke sage wale hai

bechare Gandhi g - ke ka toh koi picture mei hi nahi hai

n sir g- if u read my podt-

Nehru ke against toh mei hoon hi-

n these gandhis - sonia- rahul n all

pitashree ka ghar samajh rakha hai - India ko

jo aata hair rak kar leta hai

they are nehruuuuuuuuuuuussssssssss
not gandhi

gandhi laga lene se- koi gandhi nahi ho jata

Regards,




eb baar mane kitte Rajiv Gandhi ka poster lagya dekha tha usper kuch wordings likhi thi ki uska sapna is desh ko kaisa banae ka h.....aur Sonia Gandhi usne pura karegi...(Exact wording yaad ni hain).
Per inke kaam dekh k to yo e lage h ki uska sapna tha foreign banks me apne accounts bharna jo Sonia bakhubi pura kar rahi hai.....desh ko politics k kichad se ace se nehlana jo ye kar rahe hain,inhone to khud apne ghar me b ek dusre se politics kheli h to desh inka k lage hain.

[vikasJAT]

Correction --------------------

yeh sare Nehru- ke sage wale hai

bechare Gandhi g - ke ka toh koi picture mei hi nahi hai

n sir g- if u read my podt-

Nehru ke against toh mei hoon hi-

n these gandhis - sonia- rahul n all

pitashree ka ghar samajh rakha hai - India ko

jo aata hair rak kar leta hai

they are nehruuuuuuuuuuuussssssssss
not gandhi

gandhi laga lene se- koi gandhi nahi ho jata

Regards,
Nehru aur Gandhi kon sa alag alag hain,Nehru ko banae k piche b Gandhi ka he hath tha.

[narvir]

Respected Sir’s


Jab hum kisi matter ko seriously samjhne ki koshish karte h to kai sari bate hoti h questions hote h jo hume motivate karte h use search & read karne ke liye.Kuchh aisa hi huwa Nathuram ke bare me b.


After my search & read about Nathuram I can understand some things. I want to share them with all of u.

Jo bate mere chote se mind me aaye h wo ye h.


1.Nathuram gandhi ji ka param bhagt tha.

2.Nathuram ahinsa me gahra vishwas rakhne wala admi tha.

3.Uski history me aisi koi b chij nahi h jo ye prove kare ki wo ek crimenal nature ka tha.

4.Usko padhne ke bad ye b nahi kah sakte wo bewkuf ya pagal tha.

5.Mujhe to kahi se ye b nahi laga ki wo leadership ka shok hi rakhta ho.

6.Or na hi kahi usme name & fame ki chah najar aati h.


To sochne wali bat ye h ki achanak aisa kya huwa ki usne itna bada kadam uthaya.Ye koi majak to tha nahi.

Koi na koi to reason raha hoga iske pichhe.Ye sab janne or padhne ke bad kuchh sawal hai jo meri samajh me nahi aa rahe h.

Can anyone help me to undersatand all these questions.


1.Nathuram ko aisa karne se kya personal benefit ho sakta tha?

2.Usne ye karne se pahle ye nahi socha ki ek international leader jisko hamare desh ke log bhagwan ke barabar mante h use marne ke bad mera kya anjam hoga?

3.Kya itna easy kam tha nathuram ke liye ye karna,ki gun uthai or shut?

4.Kya use gandhi ji ki desh ke liye importance ka pta nahi tha?

Agar aap me se kisi ke pass b in questions ke jawab ho than please help me to solve...

Thanks

With Regards

Narvir Sangwan

[vikasJAT]

Respected Sir’s


Jab hum kisi matter ko seriously samjhne ki koshish karte h to kai sari bate hoti h questions hote h jo hume motivate karte h use search & read karne ke liye.Kuchh aisa hi huwa Nathuram ke bare me b.


After my search & read about Nathuram I can understand some things. I want to share them with all of u.

Jo bate mere chote se mind me aaye h wo ye h.


1.Nathuram gandhi ji ka param bhagt tha.

2.Nathuram ahinsa me gahra vishwas rakhne wala admi tha.

3.Uski history me aisi koi b chij nahi h jo ye prove kare ki wo ek crimenal nature ka tha.

4.Usko padhne ke bad ye b nahi kah sakte wo bewkuf ya pagal tha.

5.Mujhe to kahi se ye b nahi laga ki wo leadership ka shok hi rakhta ho.

6.Or na hi kahi usme name & fame ki chah najar aati h.


To sochne wali bat ye h ki achanak aisa kya huwa ki usne itna bada kadam uthaya.Ye koi majak to tha nahi.

Koi na koi to reason raha hoga iske pichhe.Ye sab janne or padhne ke bad kuchh sawal hai jo meri samajh me nahi aa rahe h.

Can anyone help me to undersatand all these questions.


1.Nathuram ko aisa karne se kya personal benefit ho sakta tha?

2.Usne ye karne se pahle ye nahi socha ki ek international leader jisko hamare desh ke log bhagwan ke barabar mante h use marne ke bad mera kya anjam hoga?

3.Kya itna easy kam tha nathuram ke liye ye karna,ki gun uthai or shut?

4.Kya use gandhi ji ki desh ke liye importance ka pta nahi tha?

Agar aap me se kisi ke pass b in questions ke jawab ho than please help me to solve...

Thanks

With Regards

Narvir Sangwan

bhai exact mujhe ni pata per sun ne me ye bhi aaya tha ki Gandhi k aashram me kuch galat harqate hoti thi jisme Gandhi b involve tha.jise dekh kar uska Ghandhi k liye jo vishwas tha use theass pachuhi thi.......iska ek reason ye b hai.

[narvir]

Vikash ji,

M abhi tak confuse hu in sare sawalo me or koi bhi ray kayam nahi kar paya hu ki nathuram sahi tha ya galat.
Ye b Ho sakta h ki wo galat ho.Par suni sunai bato ko hume importance nahi deni chahiye.hume apni ray banane se pahle sari un bato ko study karna chahiye or koshish karni chahiye ki hum wahi bate uthaye jinke piche hamare pass solid logic ya solid proof ho.or hum unko prove kar sake.kahne wale to kuchh b kah dete h ye public h hume sirf ek pahlu ko hi nahi dekhna chahiye.

Thanks for ur reply
Narvir sangwan

[rekhasmriti]

Sir g ,

Huge difference- agar mei kal kisso ko vote deti hoon iska matlab yeh nahi woh mera gharwala ho gaya

Gandhi's actaul family- did not take any benefit-

Gandhi could have been become 1st PM- but nahi bana

n yeh indira - n all sab nehru ka khoon hai

gandhi ka nahi

Regards,





Nehru aur Gandhi kon sa alag alag hain,Nehru ko banae k piche b Gandhi ka he hath tha.

[rekhasmriti]

i agree-

there are not solid facts or evidences behind what happened

may be we r justifying Nathuram killing coz we did not like Gandhi ji

we are kind of biased with thought

aisa hota hai - human nature- if we don't like somebody

we often say- acha hi hai - mar gaya- jisne kiya acha kiya

Regards,


Vikash ji,

M abhi tak confuse hu in sare sawalo me or koi bhi ray kayam nahi kar paya hu ki nathuram sahi tha ya galat.
Ye b Ho sakta h ki wo galat ho.Par suni sunai bato ko hume importance nahi deni chahiye.hume apni ray banane se pahle sari un bato ko study karna chahiye or koshish karni chahiye ki hum wahi bate uthaye jinke piche hamare pass solid logic ya solid proof ho.or hum unko prove kar sake.kahne wale to kuchh b kah dete h ye public h hume sirf ek pahlu ko hi nahi dekhna chahiye.

Thanks for ur reply
Narvir sangwan

[narvir]

Kisi ko like ikarna ya na karna ek alag bat hai.
like na karne se bhi hum is bat bat ko ignore nahi kar sakte ki gandhi ji ne jo us samay kiya desh ke liye wo bhi koi chhoti chij nahi thi jaise dandi march.kuchh bhi nahi huwa ho par isse jo ek swadesh ki jo bhawana jagi thi public me wo great thi.
Uske bad hi aam admi ko ye laga ki hum mil kar kuchh kar sakte hai or yahi se ek lahar uthi thi angrejo ke khilaf log khade hone shuru ho gaye the jo ek bahot bada plus point tha haare desh ke liye.bahot public thi is desh me tab bhi jinhone kuchh nahi kiya unse to thik hi the gandhi ji.

Rahi bat fayda uthane ki to azadi ke bad jis stage pe gandhi ji the us stage ke aage PM ki post to koi mayne nahi rakhti hai.
Rastrpita kya koi chhoti bat hoti hai.PM se jyada power thi us samay gandhi ji ke pass or ye power hi sabse badi samsya ban kar samne aai kyo ki isi power ne majbur kir diya tha sab ko gandhi ji ki bat manne ke liye or gandhi ji to gandhi the wo sirf or sirf apni chalana chahte the bas.
Mujhe to kabhi kabhi lagta hai ki gandhi ji bhi jat hi the (unki jid dekh kar )wo full sport kar rahe the pakistan ko us samay.

Ye wo bat thi jiski vajah se nathuram unke against tha.wo naraj tha is jid se jo ki sarasar galat thi jski vajah se nathuram ko ye laga ki agar ye ab jyada jinda rahe to ye desh barbad ho jayega inki jid ki vajah se.

vaise nathuram ko kya fark padne wala tha?desh me to or log bhi the.

Par nathuram un logo me nahi tha jo log ye sochte hai ki hum kyu aage aaye.selfish nahi tha nathuram wo un logo me se tha jinko jarurat hoti hai bhid ikkatha karne ki apne pichhe kuchh bhi karne ke liye.Use nahi thi jarurat kisi ki,usne khud on the spot faisla liya kuchh karne ka or kiya bhi.
kitni badi kurbani di thi usne ye sochte hai kabhi aap.gandhi ji ko mar kar usne khud kya pa liya.Khud ko kurban kar diya usne desh ke upar ye sachai hai nathuram ki.

hamare samne aaj kitne ghotale ho rahe hai kitna bharstachar hai har jagah jo hum dekhte sunte hai din rat.Par kya karte hai hum. kuchh nahi kar pate.

AAJ is desh ke log Akhir kaise bina soche samjhe nathuram ko itne aaram se cold blooded murderer bol dete hai.
Are wo to jo bhi kuchh tha aap kya hai uske aage ?
Aap kya kar rahe hai aaj ke din is desh ke liye.

Last me mai sirf itna kahna chahunga ki Agar aaj is desh me sirf kuchh logo ke pass bhi nathuram jaisa jajba ya wo soch hoti to hamare desh ke halat hi kuchh or hote..........

Mera maksad kisi ko hurt karna nahi hai par kya kare jo bhawanaye hai wo andar rukti nahi hai bahar aa hi jati hai.

Dhanyawad

[tarzon]

When a person just set one thing in his mind then he only think that he is only right and whatever he was doing is correct in all manner. Watch Crime Patrol on Sony for so many similar kind of people......The same is the case of Nathu Ram Godse.

Ans. 1 Mental Satisfaction
Ans. 2 Agar itna sochnay ka dimag bacha hota to marta hi kyon
Ans. 3 Agar kisi ko crime karna hia...uskai liye sub easy ho jata hia phir...then he think like a criminal and not like a law abiding civilian
Ans. 4 Importance pata thi..but uska jo mental level tha...wo us importance kai sath match nahi kar pa rha tha


Respected Sir’s

Can anyone help me to undersatand all these questions.


1.Nathuram ko aisa karne se kya personal benefit ho sakta tha?

2.Usne ye karne se pahle ye nahi socha ki ek international leader jisko hamare desh ke log bhagwan ke barabar mante h use marne ke bad mera kya anjam hoga?

3.Kya itna easy kam tha nathuram ke liye ye karna,ki gun uthai or shut?

4.Kya use gandhi ji ki desh ke liye importance ka pta nahi tha?

Agar aap me se kisi ke pass b in questions ke jawab ho than please help me to solve...

Thanks

With Regards

Narvir Sangwan

[narvir]

When a person just set one thing in his mind then he only think that he is only right and whatever he was doing is correct in all manner. Watch Crime Patrol on Sony for so many similar kind of people......The same is the case of Nathu Ram Godse.

Ans. 1 Mental Satisfaction
Ans. 2 Agar itna sochnay ka dimag bacha hota to marta hi kyon
Ans. 3 Agar kisi ko crime karna hia...uskai liye sub easy ho jata hia phir...then he think like a criminal and not like a law abiding civilian
Ans. 4 Importance pata thi..but uska jo mental level tha...wo us importance kai sath match nahi kar pa rha tha


Tomar sahab,

Jo bhi aap ne aaj tak pe crime petrol me dekha hai un sab me jo crime hote hai wo kis liye kiye jate hai?
jyadatar ka maksad paisa hi hota hai.

Ans 1.Mental satisfaction.
I agree with this ans.
ye bat aap ki bilkul sahi hai mental satisfaction to jarur mila hoga Nathuram ko ye kam karne ke bad.

baki jo answer aap bata rahe hai wo bina sir pair ke hai,dimag ki bat karte hai aap,aap kabhi soch bhi nahi sakte ki uske pass kitna dimag tha.

Or crime hi karna hota use to bahot se kar sakta tha.Law ko kahi bhi toda ja sakta tha.
Or jo crime karte hai wo sab log bhagte hai chhupte hai kanun se wo aisa open crime kabhi nahi karte hai.
Agar karte ho to ek bhi example dikhao aisa.

Phir hum man lenge aap ki bat .Par aise hi hawa me tir chalane se ya kisi k bhi sath compare kar dene se to kuchh bhi nahi hone wala.

Meri ek personal request hai aap se ek bar seriously Nathuram ke bare me padh lijiye aap ko ape aap pta chal jayega wo kya tha.

Dhanyawad

[tarzon]

Sangwan ji,

Crime petrol ki episode jara or regular basis par dheka karo...bina motive ki bhi bhut stories crime petrol mai dheknay ko milygi...

and you want a example....

Here is the example
JL not allowing me to post the link....so the link is in abbreviated form
au(dot)news(dot)yahoo(dot)com/thewest/a/-/world/13988372/indian-unrepentant-after-killing-daughter/


The father has killed here daughter (you can called it as honor killing as well in the language of our stupid media)and surrendered in front of the police....and gave blah blah reason why he has killed her daughter...Just like Nathu Ram Godsay has given several stupid reason....no reason give you the right to kill any one....until and unless the other person is going to kill you if you won't defend yourself...
I can cite several example...you can just google and you'll find 1000s of such example...where people has killed other just to satisfy his mental imbalance...

But it doesn't change the fact that all these kind of people are called as criminal and not a saint...

and the same definition applies to Nathu Ram Godsay as well...He was cold blooded murderer who has killed an old man who unable to walk even on his feet without others help....

So I'm not just shooting the gun in air or saying bina sir pair ki baar...I'm talking rationally....

But you are justifying the act of criminal on the basis of whim and fancy...


Tomar sahab,

Jo bhi aap ne aaj tak pe crime petrol me dekha hai un sab me jo crime hote hai wo kis liye kiye jate hai?
jyadatar ka maksad paisa hi hota hai.

Ans 1.Mental satisfaction.
I agree with this ans.
ye bat aap ki bilkul sahi hai mental satisfaction to jarur mila hoga Nathuram ko ye kam karne ke bad.

baki jo answer aap bata rahe hai wo bina sir pair ke hai,dimag ki bat karte hai aap,aap kabhi soch bhi nahi sakte ki uske pass kitna dimag tha.

Or crime hi karna hota use to bahot se kar sakta tha.Law ko kahi bhi toda ja sakta tha.
Or jo crime karte hai wo sab log bhagte hai chhupte hai kanun se wo aisa open crime kabhi nahi karte hai.
Agar karte ho to ek bhi example dikhao aisa.

Phir hum man lenge aap ki bat .Par aise hi hawa me tir chalane se ya kisi k bhi sath compare kar dene se to kuchh bhi nahi hone wala.

Meri ek personal request hai aap se ek bar seriously Nathuram ke bare me padh lijiye aap ko ape aap pta chal jayega wo kya tha.

Dhanyawad

[narvir]

Sangwan ji,

Crime petrol ki episode jara or regular basis par dheka karo...bina motive ki bhi bhut stories crime petrol mai dheknay ko milygi...

and you want a example....

Here is the example
JL not allowing me to post the link....so the link is in abbreviated form
au(dot)news(dot)yahoo(dot)com/thewest/a/-/world/13988372/indian-unrepentant-after-killing-daughter/


The father has killed here daughter (you can called it as honor killing as well in the language of our stupid media)and surrendered in front of the police....and gave blah blah reason why he has killed her daughter...Just like Nathu Ram Godsay has given several stupid reason....no reason give you the right to kill any one....until and unless the other person is going to kill you if you won't defend yourself...
I can cite several example...you can just google and you'll find 1000s of such example...where people has killed other just to satisfy his mental imbalance...

But it doesn't change the fact that all these kind of people are called as criminal and not a saint...

and the same definition applies to Nathu Ram Godsay as well...He was cold blooded murderer who has killed an old man who unable to walk even on his feet without others help....

So I'm not just shooting the gun in air or saying bina sir pair ki baar...I'm talking rationally....

But you are justifying the act of criminal on the basis of whim and fancy...


Tomar sahab.

Ye aap ki bat bilkul sahi hai.Koi bhi kanun,dharm,samaj or manavta ye allow nahi karta hai ki koi kisi ko mar de.
Reason chahe kuchh bhi rahe ho is bat se koi fark nahi padta hai.

Finale I got the answer of all questions.
now i m fully satisfied with it & thank you very much for help me to do so.

Dhanyawad

with regards

[vikasJAT]

Sir g ,

Huge difference- agar mei kal kisso ko vote deti hoon iska matlab yeh nahi woh mera gharwala ho gaya

Gandhi's actaul family- did not take any benefit-

Gandhi could have been become 1st PM- but nahi bana

n yeh indira - n all sab nehru ka khoon hai

gandhi ka nahi

Regards,

Jab India azaad hua us time 2 leader the jo PM ban na chahte the ek tha Nehru aur ek koi mushlim leader tha (naam dhyan nahi).
Gandhi Nehru ko banana chahta tha.Isi k base per India aur Pakistan bane the,India me Nehru PM bana diya aur Pakistan me VO leader PM bana diya.

Nehru ko Pm bana kar Gandhi ne jo kaam kiya use ab tak humara desh bhugat raha hai.

Dusri baat Gandhi ki vajah se humare mahan karantikario ko fassi hui......aap sabki yaad b hoga jab angrezo ne Ghandi k san=mne condition rakhi ki aap in karantkariyo ko fassi se bacha sakte ho,tab Ghandi ne dimag ka use kyu ni kiya,unhe fassi kyu hone di kyuki Gandhi karantikariyo se chidte the.

Agar Gandhi ni hota to humare itne Karantikariyon ko na saheed hona padta..aur hume bahut pehle azaadi mil jati.

P.S: Ye sab maine suna aur padha h so yaha likha h,kisi member ko koi objection ho to khul k against me bol sakta h..NO PROBLEM

[rekhasmriti]

well that krantikari part of urs was right

yar still he was not god- made a mistake

but i agree he had the chance to save them - but he did not for some unknown reasons

yahan aap theek hai



that muslim leader was Jinnah

do u know Ness Wadia his successors









Jab India azaad hua us time 2 leader the jo PM ban na chahte the ek tha Nehru aur ek koi mushlim leader tha (naam dhyan nahi).
Gandhi Nehru ko banana chahta tha.Isi k base per India aur Pakistan bane the,India me Nehru PM bana diya aur Pakistan me VO leader PM bana diya.

Nehru ko Pm bana kar Gandhi ne jo kaam kiya use ab tak humara desh bhugat raha hai.

Dusri baat Gandhi ki vajah se humare mahan karantikario ko fassi hui......aap sabki yaad b hoga jab angrezo ne Ghandi k san=mne condition rakhi ki aap in karantkariyo ko fassi se bacha sakte ho,tab Ghandi ne dimag ka use kyu ni kiya,unhe fassi kyu hone di kyuki Gandhi karantikariyo se chidte the.

Agar Gandhi ni hota to humare itne Karantikariyon ko na saheed hona padta..aur hume bahut pehle azaadi mil jati.

P.S: Ye sab maine suna aur padha h so yaha likha h,kisi member ko koi objection ho to khul k against me bol sakta h..NO PROBLEM

[tarzon]

Always welcome :)

Logo ko normally meri batay jaldi samjh aati nahi hia...but aapko jaldi samjh aa gayi...I'm feeling lucky :P


Tomar sahab.

Ye aap ki bat bilkul sahi hai.Koi bhi kanun,dharm,samaj or manavta ye allow nahi karta hai ki koi kisi ko mar de.
Reason chahe kuchh bhi rahe ho is bat se koi fark nahi padta hai.

Finale I got the answer of all questions.
now i m fully satisfied with it & thank you very much for help me to do so.

Dhanyawad

with regards

[tarzon]

Gandhi Ji 1948 mai mar gaye thay....1952 mai general election huai thay...logo nai apni akal sai vote dali thi congress ko and than Nehru PM bana tha India ko...Indians mai khaas aadat hia ek...bali ka bakra dhoondnay ki...to bhut sai log Gandhi ko bakra bana kar apnay dil ko tasalli dete rehtay hia...

but the fact of the matter is Indians are voting to congress continuously and that's why they are ruling on us.

rahi baat krantikariyo kai fasi chadnay ki.....krantikariyo ko fasi ka agar itna dar hota to wo krantikari hi kyon bantay...Bhgat singh ko agar bachna hota to Subhash chandra bose usko kab ka chuda leta jail tod kar...but usnay khud sai sub ko bola tha mujhay nahi chudana...meri mot sai is desh mai ek nai kranti janam legi.....

By saying Gandhi ki vajah sai krantikari maray gaye...You are just insulting the sacrifice of all great freedom fighters....


Jab India azaad hua us time 2 leader the jo PM ban na chahte the ek tha Nehru aur ek koi mushlim leader tha (naam dhyan nahi).
Gandhi Nehru ko banana chahta tha.Isi k base per India aur Pakistan bane the,India me Nehru PM bana diya aur Pakistan me VO leader PM bana diya.

Nehru ko Pm bana kar Gandhi ne jo kaam kiya use ab tak humara desh bhugat raha hai.

Dusri baat Gandhi ki vajah se humare mahan karantikario ko fassi hui......aap sabki yaad b hoga jab angrezo ne Ghandi k san=mne condition rakhi ki aap in karantkariyo ko fassi se bacha sakte ho,tab Ghandi ne dimag ka use kyu ni kiya,unhe fassi kyu hone di kyuki Gandhi karantikariyo se chidte the.

Agar Gandhi ni hota to humare itne Karantikariyon ko na saheed hona padta..aur hume bahut pehle azaadi mil jati.

P.S: Ye sab maine suna aur padha h so yaha likha h,kisi member ko koi objection ho to khul k against me bol sakta h..NO PROBLEM

[prashantacmet]

Tomar sahab.

Ye aap ki bat bilkul sahi hai.Koi bhi kanun,dharm,samaj or manavta ye allow nahi karta hai ki koi kisi ko mar de.
Reason chahe kuchh bhi rahe ho is bat se koi fark nahi padta hai.

with regards

Bhai mere maada sa suthre dhaal soch ke dekh...desh bhi maarne ka haq deta hai, kanoon bhi arr yu dharam bhi.............

iss example ne le le...iss gahrai tai sochiye..uppere uppere tai padh ke bahas matna kariye

1) hindustan arr pakistan ke beech main ladai baaz gi.. 1 hindustan ka sainik hai arr dossra pakistan ka....galti koise ki kuch na par jo dossre ne bhoon de to yu kanon bhi shabashi dega arr yu samaj bhi..,,pakistan aalu ki liya bharat aala gaddar hai arr bharat aala ki liya pakistan aala....aade konsi manavta sai...yeh neta order de sai ladai ka..inki naasa main koi dogga kuna deta...uss nehru ne anginat manas marwa diye teh china ki ladai main..uss tai to chacha nehru batata hoga..adde khap aalu ke dogga dewan ku tayaar raho thaam.........

[tarzon]

Also, Gandhi has just entered in 1914 in Indian politics.....ussai pahlay to Gandhi nahi tha...but angrej to 200 saal pahlay sai raaj kar rhay thay....ussai pahlay Indians nai kon sai teer mar liye thay....Gandhi kai aany sai pahlay hi kyon nahi azaad ho gaya tha India....

Gandhi is one of the main reason...India is one country now...otherwise...raja rajwado mai bata rehta pahlay ki thrah or 400 500 desh hotay India kai ander koi lohagarh koi foolana garh or koi dhikda garh...:P




Agar Gandhi ni hota to humare itne Karantikariyon ko na saheed hona padta..aur hume bahut pehle azaadi mil jati.

P.S: Ye sab maine suna aur padha h so yaha likha h,kisi member ko koi objection ho to khul k against me bol sakta h..NO PROBLEM

[tarzon]

Nahi theek nahi hia...You are comparing a killing in Battle field and a killing in civil society...no where or any where or at any time in the history of this earth we're allowed to kill any civilian....if you've any complaint/grudge against any person then you've to go through the Law of the land to punish that person...that's why Law has been formulated for civilian..but this concept is not applicable for battlefield...army is meant to fight in battlefield as per the law and win the war by defeating or killing their enemy country


Bhai mere tai maada sa dhang tai socha nahi....desh bhi maarne ka haq deta hai, kanoon bhi arr yu dharam bhi.............

iss example ne le le...iss gahrai tai sochiye..uppere uppere tai padh ke bahas matna kariye

1) hindustan arr pakistan ke beech main ladai baaz gi.. 2) 1 hindustan ka sainik hai arr dossra pakistan ka....galti koise ki kuch na par jo 1 dossre ne bhoon de to yu kanon bhi shabashi dega arr yu samaj bhi..,,pakistan aalu ki liya bharat aala gaddar hai arr bharat aala ki liya pakistan aala..theek tai ek na?

[prashantacmet]

Nahi theek nahi hia...You are comparing a killing in Battle field and a killing in civil society...no where or any where or at any time in the history of this earth we're allowed to kill any civilian....if you've any complaint/grudge against any person then you've to go through the Law of the land to punish that person...that's why Law has been formulated for civilian..but this concept is not applicable for battlefield...army is meant to fight in battlefield as per the law and win the war by defeating or killing their enemy country

I did not compare anything. I guess you need to read the lines quoted by me again. It was not said in the quoted line that you are killing a civilian or a soldier. I said KILLING IS ALLOWED BY LAW DHARMA AND ..What are the circumstances for the killing that's a different matter? Moreover I had insisted to have a brainstorming session on my example and not to argue immediately..but you did the same..Hope u get it!!

[swaich]

Jab India azaad hua us time 2 leader the jo PM ban na chahte the ek tha Nehru aur ek koi mushlim leader tha (naam dhyan nahi).
Gandhi Nehru ko banana chahta tha.Isi k base per India aur Pakistan bane the,India me Nehru PM bana diya aur Pakistan me VO leader PM bana diya.

Nehru ko Pm bana kar Gandhi ne jo kaam kiya use ab tak humara desh bhugat raha hai.

Dusri baat Gandhi ki vajah se humare mahan karantikario ko fassi hui......aap sabki yaad b hoga jab angrezo ne Ghandi k san=mne condition rakhi ki aap in karantkariyo ko fassi se bacha sakte ho,tab Ghandi ne dimag ka use kyu ni kiya,unhe fassi kyu hone di kyuki Gandhi karantikariyo se chidte the.

Agar Gandhi ni hota to humare itne Karantikariyon ko na saheed hona padta..aur hume bahut pehle azaadi mil jati.

P.S: Ye sab maine suna aur padha h so yaha likha h,kisi member ko koi objection ho to khul k agst me bol sakta h..NO PROBLEM

Vikas bhai bura mat mann na, par aapki 1947ke period ko leke kuch misconceptions hain. Jinnah was adamant about separate electorates for muslims but congress didnt want that. So he asked for a separate state. Since british alrready saw him as the rep of muslims they agreed as well. Further he promised protests and riots if his demands wernt met. As communal tension was already high with many places already experiencing riots, the congress decided not to risk further loss of life and agreed to the division of the state.

[tarzon]

KILLING IS ALLOWED BY LAW DHARMA ....this is only applicable in specific context....and that context is battlefield...but you put your views in a generalize manner like it applicable in walks of life...so I just differentiated this context where it's applicable or not..and seriously I'm not arguing....:)


I did not compare anything. I guess you need to read the lines quoted by me again. It was not said in the quoted line that you are killing a civilian or a soldier. I said KILLING IS ALLOWED BY LAW DHARMA AND ..What are the circumstances for the killing that's a different matter? Moreover I had insisted to have a brainstorming session on my example and not to argue immediately..but you did the same..Hope u get it!!

[DrRajpalSingh]

Vikas bhai bura mat mann na, par aapki 1947ke period ko leke kuch misconceptions hain. Jinnah was adamant about separate electorates for muslims but congress didnt want that. So he asked for a separate state. Since british alrready saw him as the rep of muslims they agreed as well. Further he promised protests and riots if his demands wernt met. As communal tension was already high with many places already experiencing riots, the congress decided not to risk further loss of life and agreed to the division of the state.

Friends,
Minor interruption and correction. I would like to make a historical point i.e. the Muslims and Hindus were allowed to use separate electorate by the Government of India Act 1909 on the Muslim league demand. The Indian National Congress opposed the provision initially but in 1916 Muslim League-Congress Pact was arrived at according to which the Muslim League agreed to support the national freedom movement and the Congress agreed to accept communal representation for Hindus and Muslims according to which both the groups had to vote only for their coreligionists only. At that time no Gandhi, Jinnah or Nehru was visible on the political scene and there were no communal incidents in the country. The bad intention-ed and ill conceived plan of separate representation which led India towards partition happened like this:

It was a mischief on the part of the British to wedge a permanent divide between the two major communities of India so that they could continue governing India for ever! The plan of Lord Curzon to divide them through partition of Bengal on communal lines had back fired because under the banner of Indian National Congress both Hindus and the Muslims had opposed the plan unitedly and forced the government to take back the division plan. Then they got into action to facilitate the foundation of Muslim League as a political party under a person who owed huge amount as debt to the Government and was agreeable to sing on the tune of the British. They got a demand charter prepared and singed by the newly founded political outfit and in no time included the demand of separate electorate for Muslims at Shimla summit and enacted it in the form of Govt. of India Act, 1909.

Thanks.

[DrRajpalSingh]

Also, Gandhi has just entered in 1914 in Indian politics.....ussai pahlay to Gandhi nahi tha...but angrej to 200 saal pahlay sai raaj kar rhay thay....ussai pahlay Indians nai kon sai teer mar liye thay....Gandhi kai aany sai pahlay hi kyon nahi azaad ho gaya tha India....

Gandhi is one of the main reason...India is one country now...otherwise...raja rajwado mai bata rehta pahlay ki thrah or 400 500 desh hotay India kai ander koi lohagarh koi foolana garh or koi dhikda garh...:P

Friends,

Kindly ponder over it and then put your comments please:
The story of British occupation started in June 1757 with the battle of Plassey and culminated with the fall of the Sikh Lahore Durbar Govt and subsequent annexation of the Punjab in 1849; therefore your saying 200 years earlier to 1914 is incorrect.

Gandhiji alongwith so many other leaders led the freedom movement with nonviolent as a weapon of fight against the British and succeeded in mass participation of the people in it. This was a big contribution of the Gandhians. But it is wrong to say that only due to them India became free. There were several factors for facilitating the freedom for India are many. To mention a few from 1940 onwards are like the role of Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose and his INA, INA Trials and revolt in Indian Royal Navy, bunkurputchy of the British after the end of the WWII, eruption of the communal riots and frenzy among the Indians and British Governments failure to replenish the British Indian Army at this crucial movement to control all these factors.

Gandhiji had no role to play in the merger of native states {Deshi Rajwade or Riyasteon} in India. The British had not only divided India into three parts India, East Pakistan (Now Bangladesh) and West Pakistan but also freed around 600 native states. The task to get them merged into India was undertaken by Sardar Patel (As Deputy P M and Home Minister) only by adopting firm policy for which he is known as Iron Man of India. He successfully accomplished the task in hand and thus facilitated the emergence of the present Union of India i.e. Bharat. The only exception from his jurisdiction was handling of J & K affair. (This matter was handled by Pt. Jawaharlal Nehru in his capacity as P M and External affairs Minister). Rest is contemporary history.

Thanks

[rekhasmriti]

however he did get a chance to save them=
for which he has denied

we r not insulting- just trying to get the mind of state of that gr8 person-
-
jab apke samne 18 - 19 yrs ke ladkon ko fansi par tang rahe ho


n apki ek han se unki jan bach sakti thi- toh aise kya majboori thi
that he did not save them????????????/

just curious-
i m not follower of Gandhi - however i did admire his gr8ness

still thing at times confuse me - why







Gandhi Ji 1948 mai mar gaye thay....1952 mai general election huai thay...logo nai apni akal sai vote dali thi congress ko and than Nehru PM bana tha India ko...Indians mai khaas aadat hia ek...bali ka bakra dhoondnay ki...to bhut sai log Gandhi ko bakra bana kar apnay dil ko tasalli dete rehtay hia...

but the fact of the matter is Indians are voting to congress continuously and that's why they are ruling on us.

rahi baat krantikariyo kai fasi chadnay ki.....krantikariyo ko fasi ka agar itna dar hota to wo krantikari hi kyon bantay...Bhgat singh ko agar bachna hota to Subhash chandra bose usko kab ka chuda leta jail tod kar...but usnay khud sai sub ko bola tha mujhay nahi chudana...meri mot sai is desh mai ek nai kranti janam legi.....

By saying Gandhi ki vajah sai krantikari maray gaye...You are just insulting the sacrifice of all great freedom fighters....

[rekhasmriti]

One more thing sir-

Gandhi g ki itni chalti thi-

unke fast rakhne bhar se sare Riots khatam ho jate the

so unhone - partition kyun hone diya

n angrez kaun hote the- bantwara karne wale

just thinking- jasie peace n non violence par gandhi g ad gaye the

toh partition par kyun nahi ade

if he was worried about communal rights- toh partition mei jitne mare uska toh koi hisab anhi

( sir bas movies mei hi dekha hai- n i have couple of frnds jo pakistan se as a refugee aaye the )

again no offence against him

but he was not god- he has also made some mistakes- which we can not ignore

just becoz he is Rastrapita


Does any one he was never nominated for Noble prize for peace- jo ki yar banta tha







Vikas bhai bura mat mann na, par aapki 1947ke period ko leke kuch misconceptions hain. Jinnah was adamant about separate electorates for muslims but congress didnt want that. So he asked for a separate state. Since british alrready saw him as the rep of muslims they agreed as well. Further he promised protests and riots if his demands wernt met. As communal tension was already high with many places already experiencing riots, the congress decided not to risk further loss of life and agreed to the division of the state.

[prashantacmet]

KILLING IS ALLOWED BY LAW DHARMA ....this is only applicable in specific context....and that context is battlefield...but you put your views in a generalize manner like it applicable in walks of life...so I just differentiated this context where it's applicable or not..and seriously I'm not arguing....:)
i did not think of writing in detail but you compelled me to do so..Hope you understand the context and perspective of my writing :)

First talk about battle field..a line has been drawn and that is called the borderline of your country ...how that borderline is decided that's a matter of history..may be several wars, pacts led to culmination of that borderlines..now some neighbor country tries to breach that line and a war is declared and that neighbor is declared an enemy..now if you kill that enemy you are rewarded...that killing is not inhuman..no one has the accountability for that killing...Just an example...In 1962..due to wrong policies of Nehru a war was imposed on India..our soldiers were fighting without ammunition..thousands of them were killed..do you think that just giving an emotional and delicate speech about the killing (call it sacrifice) of our soldiers fulfill the responsibility of that man nehru ..why any charge was not levied on him...? why the Human Rights commission did not raise the voice against that nehru ..becasue he was in power..so ultimately POWER comes at the top...this is the same that anarchists were doing from centuries...

Now talk about a field in a village..you own a field ..you have drawn a boundary around your field..now someone breaches that boundary and want to encroach your field..and if you kill him that is a CRIME...you may be entitled as inhuman...and you have taken law in your hands..now you are guilty..... astonishing!!

Now let me co-relate with honor killing..we have a society, traditions and heritage given by our forefathers ..that is our honor..if someone breaches that honor wall it is justifiable to kill him....

My view may be taken as an extremists view but I don't have no problem in that !!

[DrRajpalSingh]

i did not think of writing in detail......

Now let me co-relate with honor killing..we have a society, traditions and heritage given by our forefathers ..that is our honor..if someone breaches that honor wall it is justifiable to kill him....

My view may be taken as an extremists view but I don't have no problem in that !!

Friend,

Your impatience to deal with the fast changing social morals and ethos is understandable.

But to maintain calm and composure under such circumstances is the need of the hour.

By killing a few children for violation of the social traditions is no solution of the problem. The society must come forward to inculcate in the minds of children love for national heritage and culture and respect for social fabric. They must first show by practical demonstration their love for the values and morals in daay to day life and create an atmosphere and healthy environment when the child is receptive in its early childhood to what he/she is looking around him so that the things do not mess up in later times leading to ugly but avoidable situation under discussion. Moreover, society emerged to protect individuals and not vice versa and also that society is not a dead wood but a living organisation and has seen many changes to fine tune the changing needs of the times over the years of long journey through the ages. So it can take other more suitable steps to control the chaotic situation it is facing in view of the changed scenario.

Moreover one has to remember that killing someone must be avoided at all costs, whatever the provocation, because it is cognizable crime in the eyes of the law of the land.

Thanks.

[DrRajpalSingh]

.......

n angrez kaun hote the- bantwara karne wale

........

The British East India Company established and consolidate their Indian empire because they were experts in implementing the policy : DIVIDE And RULE!

They took advantage of the situation caused by disintegration and fall of the Mughal dynasty in the 18th Century and the inner fight between various centrifugal forces to take advantage of the tottering of central government. The British started meddling in the political affairs of the country around 1740's and passing through various stages of empire building the were successful in subjugating the nation by 1850.
But the joint attempt of the Hindus and Muslims in 1857 to drive the British away proved a big jolt to the British. Thence after, outwardly they promised to end racial prejudice and give equal treatment to all their subjects [Indians] but implemented the policy of dividing the Indians on the basis of caste, class, faith, religion and region basis.

Using the opium of religion among the Indian affairs in the British policy since 1858 onward became a hall mark to divide the Indians. The emergence of the Indian National Congress as an umbrella organisation for all the freedom loving Indians in 1905, dashed their hopes of Hindu Muslim divide on communal lines. But they did not loose time and facilitated the foundation of Muslim League as a sole proprietors of the protection of the Muslims and dubbed the Congress as a party of Hindus and the also institutionalised the communal division by making separate representation clause in the Govt of India Act 1909 and further strengthened it by Govt. of India Act 1919 and 1935.
They in 1932 tried to weaken the national movement by McDonnelled award granting separate and proportionate representation out of the Hindu quota to scheduled castes. But it was rejected because Gandhi Ambedkar Poona Pact was signed.

When Muslim Leauge failed to garner the support of nationalist Muslims, it was given encouragement by the british during 1939-47 period. They were given special encouragement to adopt anti-Congress or to say Pro-British Policies because the Congress had rejected the British demand of supporting the British war efforts and also started Individul Satyagrah, Quit India Movement etc.

In the elections held in 1945-46, the performance of the Muslim League was far below the expectation of the leaders of the party but in the Interim Government formed in 1946 under Jawaharlal Nehru was made to accept two Muslim League Ministers in spite of their opposition to the Congress Policy and demand of freedom for India as a united country. This lead to stalemate and further outbreak of communal riots worsened the position. When the British found that they will not be allowed to rule over India due to these factors and some other factors mentioned in some earlier post by me, they pre-poned their date of freeing India from June 1948 to 15th August, 1947 leaving behind communal frenzy and bloodshed. But before they went permanent thorn in the heart of India had been implanted by them in the form of partition of the country on communal lines.

Hence the objective conditions in 1947 had reached to such a pass that none could stop partition of the country, leave all the Indians of the day aside, not even the British could stop division of the country. So when the Indian were busy in fighting amongst themselves the British to save their lives, freed divided India and quit safely.

Thanks.

[drkarminder]

the best way to know anything is to go in to it,practice it and feel it.
so,to know gandhi was right or wrong,try to become gandhi,i think at every point ur perception will change,ur thoughts will change,ur attitude will change, may be u will change as a whole new man nd then u will see that u hv become gandhi,but according to u,u didnt do anything wrong.everything that u did was right for ur country,for that many things were sacrificed.many ppl were annoyed with u.
but u are not working to make one person happy,its the whole country u are serving for.

[Samarkadian]

the best way to know anything is to go in to it,practice it and feel it.
so,to know gandhi was right or wrong,try to become gandhi,i think at every point ur perception will change,ur thoughts will change,ur attitude will change, may be u will change as a whole new man nd then u will see that u hv become gandhi,but according to u,u didnt do anything wrong.everything that u did was right for ur country,for that many things were sacrificed.many ppl were annoyed with u.
but u are not working to make one person happy,its the whole country u are serving for.

Whats your point?

Okay,Get in to Gandhi's shoes and tell us how you feel about letting Bhagat Singh hanged indifferently?

[DrRajpalSingh]

the best way to know anything is to go in to it,practice it and feel it. ......

Friend,

It is not possible in actual life. I think the best way to judge and evaluate the life and contribution of a man is to go to the contemporary social-economic and political milieu and try to understand the objective conditions surrounding the person. Only then, some plausible generalisations about him/her could be drawn.

Thanks

[DrRajpalSingh]

Whats your point?

Okay,Get in to Gandhi's shoes and tell us how you feel about letting Bhagat Singh hanged indifferently?

Kadian Sahib permit me to share my views on the issue.

Friend, You are right to say that neither the Congress nor Mahatma Gandhi did assert themselves in defence of Martyr Bhagat Singh and his associates who facing trial in the case known as Lahore Conspiracy Case II. I have gone through full proceedings which led to signing of the Gandhi-Irwin Pact, correspondence between Gandhiji and Irwin, private records maintained by Irwin and Diary maintained by Gandhiji's PA, Pyarelal which support your point of view.

In fact, in reference to the cases of the Revolutionaries Gandhiji only once referred the matter, not on the negotiation table, but after the meeting was over and Governor General Viceroy and Gandhiji were together outside the conference room but that too, according to Irwin in a passing remark not seriously. Yes, Gandhiji wanted that the execution of the revolutionaries be postponed till the Congress session at Karachi had been over but the Viceroy did not agree to this proposal too. [See for details, complete works of Mahatma Gandhi, His Diary of the Year 1930-31; Harijan and Viceroy Irwin's records].

Thanks.
PS: It is also mentioned that MKG wrote a letter on the issue to be handed over to the Viceroy 23rd March on learning that the Govt. of India had confirmed the sentence awarded by the court. But the letter is not traceable so no one can say what were its contents.

[tarzon]

DrRajpalSingh (http://www.jatland.com/forums/member.php?36106-DrRajpalSingh) Ji,

I just mentioned 200 years in general...Just like we say that British has ruled 250 years over India and other person say that No, British has ruled over India 248 years 6 month 8 days 38 hour 24 min and 36 sec...so such correctness is absurd when we are talking generality...The point that I was trying to highlight was before 1914 what significant contribution Indians has give in whole to achieve their freedom from British and I find it none. The one significant chapter was 1857 and some more small fights but all these fights was due to the personal reason of different princely state. We never fought with British to get the complete Independence for whole India.

2nddly If you will read mine comment closely then you'll find that I never said Gandhi JI was the only reason for Independence of India...I just said "Gandhi is one of the main reason." so you've just misinterpreted my comment.

As far as Saying Sardar Patel has joined all the princely state of India and India becomes a Union of India...then it's correct...but this policy was adopted before the Independence of India that India will emerge as Union of India and not like several princely state countries...and Gandhi Ji has the full role in formulating this policy for India before the Independence. Sardar Patel has fulfilled this responsibility after the Independence.


Friends,

Kindly ponder over it and then put your comments please:
The story of British occupation started in June 1757 with the battle of Plassey and culminated with the fall of the Sikh Lahore Durbar Govt and subsequent annexation of the Punjab in 1849; therefore your saying 200 years earlier to 1914 is incorrect.

Gandhiji alongwith so many other leaders led the freedom movement with nonviolent as a weapon of fight against the British and succeeded in mass participation of the people in it. This was a big contribution of the Gandhians. But it is wrong to say that only due to them India became free. There were several factors for facilitating the freedom for India are many. To mention a few from 1940 onwards are like the role of Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose and his INA, INA Trials and revolt in Indian Royal Navy, bunkurputchy of the British after the end of the WWII, eruption of the communal riots and frenzy among the Indians and British Governments failure to replenish the British Indian Army at this crucial movement to control all these factors.

Gandhiji had no role to play in the merger of native states {Deshi Rajwade or Riyasteon} in India. The British had not only divided India into three parts India, East Pakistan (Now Bangladesh) and West Pakistan but also freed around 600 native states. The task to get them merged into India was undertaken by Sardar Patel (As Deputy P M and Home Minister) only by adopting firm policy for which he is known as Iron Man of India. He successfully accomplished the task in hand and thus facilitated the emergence of the present Union of India i.e. Bharat. The only exception from his jurisdiction was handling of J & K affair. (This matter was handled by Pt. Jawaharlal Nehru in his capacity as P M and External affairs Minister). Rest is contemporary history.

Thanks

[tarzon]

Gandhi Ji khud apnai aapko arrest karnay sai nahi rukwa saktay thay....to as per the British rule if some one has to be hanged...do you think British were even going to bother to even consider Gandhi request to save Bhagat Singh?
Did British has accepted any such demand previously? If not, then how you expect that British may have consider such demand in case of Bhgat Singh? As far as I know Gandhi Ji Requested to stop the execution of Bhagat Singh and British has denied. That's It. Now if people form their opinion after watching the Bhgat Singh movie in which Ajay DevGan portrayed the role of Bhgat Singh and Gandhi were showing in scene like "Kya Bhgat singh ki fasi kai baray mai aap kuch kar sakaty hia...in a very pitiable voice...and the viceroy denied and Gandhi left the place" then why not people form their opinion after watching the movie based of Gandhi Life and consider that Gandhi was the greatest....
Just one point do not form the opinion...on the basis of movies....


however he did get a chance to save them=
for which he has denied

we r not insulting- just trying to get the mind of state of that gr8 person-
-
jab apke samne 18 - 19 yrs ke ladkon ko fansi par tang rahe ho


n apki ek han se unki jan bach sakti thi- toh aise kya majboori thi
that he did not save them????????????/

just curious-
i m not follower of Gandhi - however i did admire his gr8ness

still thing at times confuse me - why

[tarzon]

Indeed your views are on extreme side...Gandhi ji once said an eye for an eye will make this world blind....any civil society runs on the basis of law...and in civil society no body allow to take the law in their hand...and if you'll take the law in your hand then be ready to get punished as well as per the law.

as far as battlefield is concern..In war its not necessary that both the side should have been equal in all terms....still if war imposed then both side fight with each other and one side get lose. There can be 100s of reason why any particular side has lost. It's just the matter of analysis than...BUT in any case a death in battlefield and civilian death in any crime can't be compare in any manner.

India lost to China in 1962 due to Nehru wrong policies now it's 2012 still if you'll compare the strength of India and China there is huge difference in both country military strength and China is way ahead. We've to change our policy and meet the requirement based on ground facts....Armed forces are meant to fight at the time of war in any condition. It's doesn't matter then How strong is your enemy? You've just fight based on the available resources and that's the JOB of Armed forces.


i did not think of writing in detail but you compelled me to do so..Hope you understand the context and perspective of my writing :)

First talk about battle field..a line has been drawn and that is called the borderline of your country ...how that borderline is decided that's a matter of history..may be several wars, pacts led to culmination of that borderlines..now some neighbor country tries to breach that line and a war is declared and that neighbor is declared an enemy..now if you kill that enemy you are rewarded...that killing is not inhuman..no one has the accountability for that killing...Just an example...In 1962..due to wrong policies of Nehru a war was imposed on India..our soldiers were fighting without ammunition..thousands of them were killed..do you think that just giving an emotional and delicate speech about the killing (call it sacrifice) of our soldiers fulfill the responsibility of that man nehru ..why any charge was not levied on him...? why the Human Rights commission did not raise the voice against that nehru ..becasue he was in power..so ultimately POWER comes at the top...this is the same that anarchists were doing from centuries...

Now talk about a field in a village..you own a field ..you have drawn a boundary around your field..now someone breaches that boundary and want to encroach your field..and if you kill him that is a CRIME...you may be entitled as inhuman...and you have taken law in your hands..now you are guilty..... astonishing!!

Now let me co-relate with honor killing..we have a society, traditions and heritage given by our forefathers ..that is our honor..if someone breaches that honor wall it is justifiable to kill him....

My view may be taken as an extremists view but I don't have no problem in that !!

[drkarminder]

dear rajpal ji
my opinion in this issue are slightly different.i just wanted to hear that becoming gandhi is not practical in real life.even thinking to become gandhi is so difficult than i think ppl so easily should not say that he was wrong or he didnt take decision in countrys favour.
we cant achieve freedom by bombing any court and getting ourself arrested nd we could not also. gandhi always said that he was a man of rules nd laws.he cant go out of law either its bhagat singh or anybody.he was very clear about his non violence approach that he even showed by taking styagrah aandolan back after chori chori violence bhagat singh was right in his way of fighting so was gandhi.
now why gandhi didnt stopped bhagat singhs hanging because he was given punishment by court nd the act was against law, throwing bomb in a court is a terror act nd he was given punishment accordingly,there could be casualities though bhagat intentions were not so but law doesnt go with feelings.
definitly gandhi was annoyed wd bhagat's act nd supporting him was to support violence that was not gandhis practice. reading history and judging anybody also i dont support specially when u talking of an individual that is father of nation. when u have a huge responsibilty of a nation than u may take many decisions that even u dont support.revolting to stop bhagats hanging could create hurdle in his approach.

gandhi irwin pact:"The Two Mahatmas"—as Sarojini Naidu (http://www.jatland.com/wiki/Sarojini_Naidu) described Gandhi and Irwin—had eight meetings that totaled 24 hours. Gandhi was impressed by Irwin’s sincerity. The terms of the "Gandhi-Irwin Pact" fell manifestly short of those Gandhi prescribed as the minimum for a truce.[1] (http://www.jatland.com/forums/#cite_note-0)
Below were the proposed conditions.


Discontinuation of the civil disobedience (http://www.jatland.com/wiki/Civil_disobedience) movement by the Indian National Congress
Participation by the Indian National Congress in the Round Table Conference (http://www.jatland.com/wiki/Round_Table_Conference)
Withdrawal of all ordinances issued by the British Government (http://www.jatland.com/wiki/British_Raj) imposing curbs on the activities of the Indian National Congress (http://www.jatland.com/wiki/Indian_National_Congress)
Withdrawal of all prosecutions relating to several types of offenses except those involving violence
Release of prisoners arrested for participating in the civil disobedience movement
Removal of the tax on salt, which allowed the Indians to produce, trade, and sell salt legally and for their own private use.

It is fair to record that British officials in India, and in England, were outraged by the idea of a pact with a party whose avowed purpose was the destruction of the British Raj. Winston Churchill (http://www.jatland.com/wiki/Winston_Churchill) publicly expressed his disgust "...at the nauseating and humiliating spectacle of this one-time Inner Temple lawyer, now seditious fakir, striding half-naked up the steps of the Viceroy’s palace, there to negotiate and parley on equal terms with the representative of the King Emperor."


..the red highlited part shows gandhis strenght,when even u.s president is accepting it.

as i said before, he was not fighting to make one man happy its the whole nation he was serving. for him to give freedom to india was more imortant than to save bhagat singh's life and he chose country than one man and if i was gandhi i wd have done the same,thts what i feel.

[rekhasmriti]

sir g- why postpone


congress ka session - humare logon ke jan se zayada zaroori tha

waise toh dandi marrch - peace n non violence ke liye- fasting

ek bar awaz bhi lagayee mkg ne unke support mei

-----oh i m so sorry he was busy with congress session -------------

poora india unki ek awaz par jagta -sota tha

f********** angrez na mante na sahi-
ek bar try to karte at least


please pardon my language-

agar mera ladka wahan fansi chadhne ko tayar hota taht too for the country in his teens - n mkg busy hote congress session mei

no nathru ram godse toh bahut der se aaya- mei hi kar deti gr8 assasination of mkg






Kadian Sahib permit me to share my views on the issue.

Friend, You are right to say that neither the Congress nor Mahatma Gandhi did assert themselves in defence of Martyr Bhagat Singh and his associates who facing trial in the case known as Lahore Conspiracy Case II. I have gone through full proceedings which led to signing of the Gandhi-Irwin Pact, correspondence between Gandhiji and Irwin, private records maintained by Irwin and Diary maintained by Gandhiji's PA, Pyarelal which support your point of view.

In fact, in reference to the cases of the Revolutionaries Gandhiji only once referred the matter, not on the negotiation table, but after the meeting was over and Governor General Viceroy and Gandhiji were together outside the conference room but that too, according to Irwin in a passing remark not seriously. Yes, Gandhiji wanted that the execution of the revolutionaries be postponed till the Congress session at Karachi had been over but the Viceroy did not agree to this proposal too. [See for details, complete works of Mahatma Gandhi, His Diary of the Year 1930-31; Harijan and Viceroy Irwin's records].

Thanks.
PS: It is also mentioned that MKG wrote a letter on the issue to be handed over to the Viceroy 23rd March on learning that the Govt. of India had confirmed the sentence awarded by the court. But the letter is not traceable so no one can say what were its contents.

[rekhasmriti]

agreed nahi mante angrez

jab unhone itni aag laga hi rakhi thi- desh mei

toh kya ek aur awaz nahi laga sakte the-

whole point was giving a shot

har koi ambani ban jaye zaroori nahi- but everyone must give it a try

jo unhone nahi kiya

yar simple hai- mujhe pata hai mere desh ke yougsters fansi chadhne eale hai- n he has got nothing to say
b***** S******

i heard he ad teh charisma- just 1 simple thing- atleast try kiya hota
strike-fast- some sort of jhuloos- kuch bhi

but nothing- as if they did not matter at all

at teens somebody is going to get hanged- n he did not have taht little heart to do something



plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz- no matter waht

i can not buy what u r saying sir





Gandhi Ji khud apnai aapko arrest karnay sai nahi rukwa saktay thay....to as per the British rule if some one has to be hanged...do you think British were even going to bother to even consider Gandhi request to save Bhagat Singh?
Did British has accepted any such demand previously? If not, then how you expect that British may have consider such demand in case of Bhgat Singh? As far as I know Gandhi Ji Requested to stop the execution of Bhagat Singh and British has denied. That's It. Now if people form their opinion after watching the Bhgat Singh movie in which Ajay DevGan portrayed the role of Bhgat Singh and Gandhi were showing in scene like "Kya Bhgat singh ki fasi kai baray mai aap kuch kar sakaty hia...in a very pitiable voice...and the viceroy denied and Gandhi left the place" then why not people form their opinion after watching the movie based of Gandhi Life and consider that Gandhi was the greatest....
Just one point do not form the opinion...on the basis of movies....

[DrRajpalSingh]

sir g- why postpone


congress ka session - humare logon ke jan se zayada zaroori tha

waise toh dandi marrch - peace n non violence ke liye- fasting

ek bar awaz bhi lagayee mkg ne unke support mei

-----oh i m so sorry he was busy with congress session -------------

poora india unki ek awaz par jagta -sota tha

f********** angrez na mante na sahi-
ek bar try to karte at least


please pardon my language-

agar mera ladka wahan fansi chadhne ko tayar hota taht too for the country in his teens - n mkg busy hote congress session mei

no nathru ram godse toh bahut der se aaya- mei hi kar deti gr8 assasination of mkg

Gandhiji believed in non violence and satyagrah whereas the revolutionary freedom fighters believed that if you want to win independence then revolutionary methods have to be applied against the imperialist forces to force them to leave India.
You must study relevant contemporary literature to understand the ideology of both the groups of the freedom fighters; and then, you would find that aim of both of the categories of people was to attain freedom for the nation but only the methods of the two differed. Persons belonging to both these categories were great nationalists and patriots.

We have no right to condemn anyone outright without understanding the complete gamut of the milieu of the day when he/she were active.

Thanks.

[DrRajpalSingh]

dear rajpal ji
my opinion in this issue are slightly different.i just wanted to hear that becoming gandhi is not practical in real life.even thinking to become gandhi is so difficult than i think ppl so easily should not say that he was wrong or he didnt take decision in countrys favour.
we cant achieve freedom by bombing any court and getting ourself arrested nd we could not also. gandhi always said that he was a man of rules nd laws.he cant go out of law either its bhagat singh or anybody.he was very clear about his non violence approach that he even showed by taking styagrah aandolan back after chori chori violence bhagat singh was right in his way of fighting so was gandhi.
now why gandhi didnt stopped bhagat singhs hanging because he was given punishment by court nd the act was against law, throwing bomb in a court is a terror act nd he was given punishment accordingly,there could be casualities though bhagat intentions were not so but law doesnt go with feelings.
definitly gandhi was annoyed wd bhagat's act nd supporting him was to support violence that was not gandhis practice. reading history and judging anybody also i dont support specially when u talking of an individual that is father of nation. when u have a huge responsibilty of a nation than u may take many decisions that even u dont support.revolting to stop bhagats hanging could create hurdle in his approach.

gandhi irwin pact:"The Two Mahatmas"—as Sarojini Naidu (http://www.jatland.com/wiki/Sarojini_Naidu) described Gandhi and Irwin—had eight meetings that totaled 24 hours. Gandhi was impressed by Irwin’s sincerity. The terms of the "Gandhi-Irwin Pact" fell manifestly short of those Gandhi prescribed as the minimum for a truce.[1] (http://www.jatland.com/forums/#cite_note-0)
Below were the proposed conditions.


Discontinuation of the civil disobedience (http://www.jatland.com/wiki/Civil_disobedience) movement by the Indian National Congress
Participation by the Indian National Congress in the Round Table Conference (http://www.jatland.com/wiki/Round_Table_Conference)
Withdrawal of all ordinances issued by the British Government (http://www.jatland.com/wiki/British_Raj) imposing curbs on the activities of the Indian National Congress (http://www.jatland.com/wiki/Indian_National_Congress)
Withdrawal of all prosecutions relating to several types of offenses except those involving violence
Release of prisoners arrested for participating in the civil disobedience movement
Removal of the tax on salt, which allowed the Indians to produce, trade, and sell salt legally and for their own private use.

It is fair to record that British officials in India, and in England, were outraged by the idea of a pact with a party whose avowed purpose was the destruction of the British Raj. Winston Churchill (http://www.jatland.com/wiki/Winston_Churchill) publicly expressed his disgust "...at the nauseating and humiliating spectacle of this one-time Inner Temple lawyer, now seditious fakir, striding half-naked up the steps of the Viceroy’s palace, there to negotiate and parley on equal terms with the representative of the King Emperor."


..the red highlited part shows gandhis strenght,when even u.s president is accepting it.

as i said before, he was not fighting to make one man happy its the whole nation he was serving. for him to give freedom to india was more imortant than to save bhagat singh's life and he chose country than one man and if i was gandhi i wd have done the same,thts what i feel.Dear Friend,
By posting the historical facts contained in the contemporary records accessible and available to me, I am not passing judgment on whether the Congress or Mahatma Gandhi did wrong thing or committed a mistake in dealing with the issue.
Further, there is no scope for indulging in speculations of 'ifs' and 'buts' in history. For, history takes note of what has actually happened. This is the fact of history that revolutionaries and the Congress under Mahatma Gandhi had divergence of opinion with regard to 'means' and 'ends' to be adopted to win Freedom. And this is what I have tried to understand through my study of the relevant literature. In spite of the fact that I salute the indomitable Courage and sense of the revolutionary freedom fighters, I do not forget to admire unparalleled contribution of Mahatma Gandhi for the cause of nation.

Thank you for making my point more understandable and clear by saying that the fate of the revolutionary freedom fighters was sealed before the negotiations for the Gandhi Irwin pact started as there would be no discussion on the fate of the revolutionaries freedom fighters languishing in the British India Jails charged on charges of their 'violent activities' as they were bracketed out of purview of negotiations. The term of reference was:"Withdrawal of all prosecutions relating to several types of offenses except those involving violence."

These revelations clearly manifest the reality of what was to be negotiated and what was to be kept out of the purview of Round Table Conference negotiations. It also makes clear that people at that time as well as now are discussing imaginary options like: what could have been if he had taken up this stand or that stand on the issue being discussed.
The fact is the activities and fate of the revolutionaries were never a part of the negotiations between Gandhiji and Irwin.
Thanks.

PS: 1.Gandhiji was first of all addressed by Netaji Subhashchandra Bose as 'Father of the Nation' in an address to the INA in c.1943 A.D. He was earlier known as "Mahatma" only not as Father of the Nation in spite of his full sway on making the Congress policies and programmes. Further, discussing a great person's life and work is no offence to the concerned person.
2. Gandhiji's life long ideological fight and overall contribution has made him great and needs no certification from USA or elsewhere.

[narvir]

Indeed your views are on extreme side...Gandhi ji once said an eye for an eye will make this world blind....any civil society runs on the basis of law...and in civil society no body allow to take the law in their hand...and if you'll take the law in your hand then be ready to get punished as well as per the law.

as far as battlefield is concern..In war its not necessary that both the side should have been equal in all terms....still if war imposed then both side fight with each other and one side get lose. There can be 100s of reason why any particular side has lost. It's just the matter of analysis than...BUT in any case a death in battlefield and civilian death in any crime can't be compare in any manner.

India lost to China in 1962 due to Nehru wrong policies now it's 2012 still if you'll compare the strength of India and China there is huge difference in both country military strength and China is way ahead. We've to change our policy and meet the requirement based on ground facts....Armed forces are meant to fight at the time of war in any condition. It's doesn't matter then How strong is your enemy? You've just fight based on the available resources and that's the JOB of Armed forces.


Vivek Sir,

I am impressed from your knowledge about law here.
you are success in catch every point in very deep way.
it is so good & i respect you for it.
but i want your draw attention on this line that told by you.

"BUT in any case a death in battlefield and civilian death in any crime can't be compare in any manner".

On other side you are compare nathuram's crime with professional mental killers.
there are also some difference in circumstances brother.
why are you so stupid there.
use your knowledge in same way there also & try to understand the difference of circumstances.

i agree in my previous comments that the crime is crime.

there is a place in our heart for everyone however does something for our nation.
we can't ignore gandhi ji's work also.
But this does not mean that they was right on every place.

i think my thought are clear here.

Dhanyawad
With regards

[DrRajpalSingh]

DrRajpalSingh (http://www.jatland.com/forums/member.php?36106-DrRajpalSingh) Ji,

I just mentioned 200 years in general...Just like we say that British has ruled 250 years over India and other person say that No, British has ruled over India 248 years 6 month 8 days 38 hour 24 min and 36 sec...so such correctness is absurd when we are talking generality...The point that I was trying to highlight was before 1914 what significant contribution Indians has give in whole to achieve their freedom from British and I find it none. The one significant chapter was 1857 and some more small fights but all these fights was due to the personal reason of different princely state. We never fought with British to get the complete Independence for whole India.

2nddly If you will read mine comment closely then you'll find that I never said Gandhi JI was the only reason for Independence of India...I just said "Gandhi is one of the main reason." so you've just misinterpreted my comment.

As far as Saying Sardar Patel has joined all the princely state of India and India becomes a Union of India...then it's correct...but this policy was adopted before the Independence of India that India will emerge as Union of India and not like several princely state countries...and Gandhi Ji has the full role in formulating this policy for India before the Independence. Sardar Patel has fulfilled this responsibility after the Independence.
Friend,
Regarding point 1: Everyone has tools in his kitty to defend himself and you have taken shield of your wrist watch in your funny style; but, be brave to admit the fact of history when you are discussing historical events.

2. The less said the better on your understanding of Indian History from 1857 to 1920 !!

Genuine suggestion for your kind consideration on this point: Read more relevant books and literature and I bet your argumentative strength would sharpen to unbelievable limits. [Dear friend you are missing important links of historical national movement and significant contribution of so many organisations, political leaders to mention a few like moderates, DB Narauji, G K Gokhale, MM Malviya,Tilak, Lal, Bal, Pal, Annie Besant, Gadhar Movement leaders, peasant movement leaders and other revolutionaries; Anti-Bengal Partition movement of 1905-7, Home Rule Movement, 1916-17 and so on]

3. Read some good books, please, to understand the growth of national movement in right perspective leading to its acquiring the form of mass movement after 1920,s. The ground work had already been accomplished to take the leap forward.
3. Mahatma Gandhi, Pt. Jawaharlal Nehru and Sardar Patel and so many other equally great freedom fighters have contributed in their own way but their unique contribution in their specific fields has been discussed in my above mentioned post. It is neither to belittle anyone or to paint the other larger than life. The fact remains that Sardar Patel proved true to the faith reposed in him for the merger of the princely states falling in the territories what forms modern Indian map.

Thanks.

[tarzon]

hahaha.....It's okay don't buy my argument...but it doesn't change the fact...

karminder and Dr Rajpal...has put some fact....read them...go by fact not by emotion and then form your opinion.

PS: If you are a "Tomar" then you are mine sister...so just a small suggestion....use your emotion at right place. :)


agreed nahi mante angrez

jab unhone itni aag laga hi rakhi thi- desh mei

toh kya ek aur awaz nahi laga sakte the-

whole point was giving a shot

har koi ambani ban jaye zaroori nahi- but everyone must give it a try

jo unhone nahi kiya

yar simple hai- mujhe pata hai mere desh ke yougsters fansi chadhne eale hai- n he has got nothing to say
b***** S******

i heard he ad teh charisma- just 1 simple thing- atleast try kiya hota
strike-fast- some sort of jhuloos- kuch bhi

but nothing- as if they did not matter at all

at teens somebody is going to get hanged- n he did not have taht little heart to do something



plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz- no matter waht

i can not buy what u r saying sir

[tarzon]

Narvir,

I've not compared nathuram's crime with professional mental killers. He was in a mind of set frame and to justify that set frame he has killed the Gandhi. As he has killed the Gandhi...Indeed he becomes the criminal.

Let me try yo give you an hypothetical example...Baba Ram Dev and Anna both are fighting to curb corruption in India and want some strict law should be formulated. Let us suppose there is some difference of opinion between Baba Ramdev and anna...and one of them has killed to other...In any sense, how can anyone justify it? Just because only you think that the other person is wrong, then you got the right to kill the other person???

Sorry, if anybody take such step, I called it as Inhuman act...and I only prefer to call such people cold blooded murderer...


Vivek Sir,

I am impressed from your knowledge about law here.
you are success in catch every point in very deep way.
it is so good & i respect you for it.
but i want your draw attention on this line that told by you.

"BUT in any case a death in battlefield and civilian death in any crime can't be compare in any manner".

On other side you are compare nathuram's crime with professional mental killers.
there are also some difference in circumstances brother.
why are you so stupid there.
use your knowledge in same way there also & try to understand the difference of circumstances.

i agree in my previous comments that the crime is crime.

there is a place in our heart for everyone however does something for our nation.
we can't ignore gandhi ji's work also.
But this does not mean that they was right on every place.

i think my thought are clear here.

Dhanyawad
With regards

[tarzon]

DrRajPal Ji,

I'm not disagree at all with any of your points....might be i've some different opinion on certain points...but I'lll certainly try to study more historical events in mine free time as you suggested.

Thank you.


Friend,
Regarding point 1: Everyone has tools in his kitty to defend himself and you have taken shield of your wrist watch in your funny style; but, be brave to admit the fact of history when you are discussing historical events.

2. The less said the better on your understanding of Indian History from 1857 to 1920 !!

Genuine suggestion for your kind consideration on this point: Read more relevant books and literature and I bet your argumentative strength would sharpen to unbelievable limits. [Dear friend you are missing important links of historical national movement and significant contribution of so many organisations, political leaders to mention a few like moderates, DB Narauji, G K Gokhale, MM Malviya,Tilak, Lal, Bal, Pal, Annie Besant, Gadhar Movement leaders, peasant movement leaders and other revolutionaries; Anti-Bengal Partition movement of 1905-7, Home Rule Movement, 1916-17 and so on]

3. Read some good books, please, to understand the growth of national movement in right perspective leading to its acquiring the form of mass movement after 1920,s. The ground work had already been accomplished to take the leap forward.
3. Mahatma Gandhi, Pt. Jawaharlal Nehru and Sardar Patel and so many other equally great freedom fighters have contributed in their own way but their unique contribution in their specific fields has been discussed in my above mentioned post. It is neither to belittle anyone or to paint the other larger than life. The fact remains that Sardar Patel proved true to the faith reposed in him for the merger of the princely states falling in the territories what forms modern Indian map.

Thanks.

[narvir]

Hellow friends,

This i am not saying for a special person.
I'm advising to all my friends here.

I think that controversy in and of itself is not a negative thing.
A discussion should have a variety of opinions in it. The key differene between a discussion of differing views and what has been present in several recent threads has been the personal attacks on individuals.
There is nothing wrong with not agreeing on a topic but when that disagreement gets to a childish name calling level it is time for people to regroup, catch their breath and when they are able to return to the discussion and discuss their cause without resorting to personal attacks.

I have actually learned a lot from discussing topics with people who had differeing views than me. There have also been times when I had to agree to disagree. It is far to easy though for people to take someone disagreeing with their opinion as someone disagreeing or disapproving of them.

I have found that for me when I start taking the disagreement personally, I need to step back because that is when I stop hearing what the other person says and close my mind to learning.

Keep your mind open for others.

So friends
I hope you can understand what i want to say.
so i request to all my friends please try to do healthy discussion always.http://www.jatland.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.png

Dhanyawad
http://www.jatland.com/forums/images/icons/icon6.png
With regards

[Samarkadian]

as i said before, he was not fighting to make one man happy its the whole nation he was serving. for him to give freedom to india was more imortant than to save bhagat singh's life and he chose country than one man and if i was gandhi i wd have done the same,thts what i feel.

Oh! Like Bhagat Singh was trying to get freedom for China?

[drkarminder]

Oh! Like Bhagat Singh was trying to get freedom for China?

dear samar
bhagat singh was a great revolutionary and made supreme sacrifice for his motherland and not for a single person
i salute his bravery and his sacrifice at that young age. he fought for india in his own way that he chose was right
i hv read many pamphlet of bhagat singh and am huge fan of his thoughts but here i just want to say that we should understand that gandhis could not do anything about bhagat singhs hanging because he was already convicted by the court and his capital punishment was laready declared. even bhagat singh knew that once he will be charged nd found guilty of bomb case british govt will not spare him.
now trying to stop bhagat's hanging was going against law that again was a crime nd for that anybody could be pushed in jail.
gandhis couldnt do anything more than just to put a request before govt to change their decision and that request was rejected.
i know gandhis was powerful but he was powerful within law coz he never did anything against law and i m sure that if british govt had arrested bhagat without any charges gandhi wd hv got him out of jail, but bhagat's crime was not minor. fate of that "MAST MALANG"(he was so brave nd fearless) was already decided.
gandhis approach was to break the independency of british govt and get a strong postion of congress nd then figting for rights and slowly acquire such a strong position that one day make british govt feel that india no more belongs to them.
who knows,may be gandhi ji regreted this whole his life that he couldnt do anything to save bhagat. many things are never written in history nd never known thats why m telling that try to be gandhi nd evrystep u will feel chage in urself nd ur thoughts.

[RTEWATIA]

Bade din bad nigah padi is thread pe, ar bahut kuch karne ka ji kar rehya par k karun desh azad ho liya or koi kime b bakwaas kar sakta h.

gandhi k chelo k liye ek gaana dedicate kar raha hu, aur umeed karta hu k unhe ye pasand aayega.

"De di hume AZADI, buna kahdag bina taal,
sabar mati k SANT tune kar diya kamal"



Are you guys F****** kidding me.in baaton se azadi milti h kahin, non violence ka ke matlab thaya gandhi ne er jo meri samajh me aaya, ak re angrej ghodon pe chad k aa re h, let jao dharti me, koi thappad mare te dusra gal aage ne karde ak bhai aur mar le, angerj hamare hi desh me aake mhara hi kamaya hod naaj khave, mhari hi bahan beti ki izzat te khele, er hum nue keh de ak kar lo jyukar karna s. kyuki hum haath ni thayege,tumhari daya pe bnirbhar h jis haal me rakhoge reh lenge.
kyu mar lega, kyu kime kar lega, sale k do tuk nahi kar de.

kisi ne kahi h ,
"janni janambhumisch swargadapi gariysi". er usi janambhumi ki chhati pe chad k koi taal thoke ar hum kuch karne ki bajay dharti me let jave er pade-2 dande khave to aise jine se ek shahid ki maut marna behtar h.

Karan ko mahabharta k yudh me koi hara ni sakta tha , arjun b nahi, kauravo ki haar ek mukhya karan ek ye b tha, shalya ka karan ka saarthi hona, wo har samay karan ko hat-otsahit karta rehta, k arjun jyada bada yoddha h er tu usne ni hara sakda.tere kime baski nahi h. gandhi ne kuch yo he kaam karya,public ka support uske sath tha,us public me josh bharn k bajay wo unne kayar banave tha.



ek bade bhai k signature chep rehya hu yahan, shayad kuch samajh me baat aave logao k.

हक़ मांगने से नहीं मिलता , छिना जाता हे |
अहिंसा कमजोरों का हथियार हे |

[RTEWATIA]

Dr. Karminder bhai, apne upar likhe shabdo pe punarvichar kar liyo, ek sapoot ne to lag ri phansi er dusra jail jane te b dare, er dusra bhagat singh ne crime karya, bhagat singh agar crime na karta to shayad mai aur aap log ye bahas na kar rahe hote balki angrejo ki kisi company me unskilled majdoor ke roop me kam karre hote, skilled majdoor to hum ab b hain khair,wo alag bat h.

[drkarminder]

Dr. Karminder bhai, apne upar likhe shabdo pe punarvichar kar liyo, ek sapoot ne to lag ri phansi er dusra jail jane te b dare, er dusra bhagat singh ne crime karya, bhagat singh agar crime na karta to shayad mai aur aap log ye bahas na kar rahe hote balki angrejo ki kisi company me unskilled majdoor ke roop me kam karre hote, skilled majdoor to hum ab b hain khair,wo alag bat h.
dear ravinder
i appreciate ur feelings..u r ight at ur opinions..
regards

[narvir]

Narvir,

I've not compared nathuram's crime with professional mental killers. He was in a mind of set frame and to justify that set frame he has killed the Gandhi. As he has killed the Gandhi...Indeed he becomes the criminal.

Let me try yo give you an hypothetical example...Baba Ram Dev and Anna both are fighting to curb corruption in India and want some strict law should be formulated. Let us suppose there is some difference of opinion between Baba Ramdev and anna...and one of them has killed to other...In any sense, how can anyone justify it? Just because only you think that the other person is wrong, then you got the right to kill the other person???

Sorry, if anybody take such step, I called it as Inhuman act...and I only prefer to call such people cold blooded murderer...

परणाम,
में मेरे आदरणीय दोस्तों के ज्ञान को बढ़ने के लिए यहाँ कुछ अनकही बाते बताना चाहूँगा जिसे सुन कर शायद कुछ आप को कुछ मदत मिलेगी समझने में की में क्या कहना चाहता हू
महात्मा गान्धी
- कुछ अनकहे कटु तथ्य
1. अमृतसर के जलियाँवाला बाग़ गोली काण्ड (1919) से समस्त देशवासी आक्रोश में थे तथा चाहते थे कि इस नरसंहार के खलनायक जनरल डायर पर अभियोग चलाया जाए। गान्धी ने भारतवासियों के इस आग्रह को समर्थन देने से मना कर दिया।

2. भगत सिंह व उसके साथियों के मृत्युदण्ड के निर्णय से सारा देश क्षुब्ध था व गान्धी की ओर देख रहा था कि वह हस्तक्षेप कर इन देशभक्तों को मृत्यु से बचाएं, किन्तु गान्धी ने भगत सिंह की हिंसा को अनुचित ठहराते हुए जनसामान्य की इस माँग को अस्वीकार कर दिया। क्या आश्चर्य कि आज भी भगत सिंह वे अन्य क्रान्तिकारियों को आतंकवादी कहा जाता है।

3. 6 मई 1946 को समाजवादी कार्यकर्ताओं को अपने सम्बोधन में गान्धी ने मुस्लिम लीग की हिंसा के समक्ष अपनी आहुति देने की प्रेरणा दी।

4.मोहम्मद अली जिन्ना आदि राष्ट्रवादी मुस्लिम नेताओं के विरोध को अनदेखा करते हुए 1921 में गान्धी ने खिलाफ़त आन्दोलन को समर्थन देने की घोषणा की। तो भी केरल के मोपला में मुसलमानों द्वारा वहाँ के हिन्दुओं की मारकाट की जिसमें लगभग 1500 हिन्दु मारे गए व 2000 से अधिक को मुसलमान बना लिया गया। गान्धी ने इस हिंसा का विरोध नहीं किया, वरन् खुदा के बहादुर बन्दों की बहादुरी के रूप में वर्णन किया।

5.1926 में आर्य समाज द्वारा चलाए गए शुद्धि आन्दोलन में लगे स्वामी श्रद्धानन्द जी की हत्या अब्दुल रशीद नामक एक मुस्लिम युवक ने कर दी, इसकी प्रतिक्रियास्वरूप गान्धी ने अब्दुल रशीद को अपना भाई कह कर उसके इस कृत्य को उचित ठहराया व शुद्धि आन्दोलन को अनर्गल राष्ट्र-विरोधी तथा हिन्दु-मुस्लिम एकता के लिए अहितकारी घोषित किया।

6.गान्धी ने अनेक अवसरों पर छत्रपति शिवाजी, महाराणा प्रताप व गुरू गोविन्द सिंह जी को पथभ्रष्ट देशभक्त कहा।

7.गान्धी ने जहाँ एक ओर काश्मीर के हिन्दु राजा हरि सिंह को काश्मीर मुस्लिम बहुल होने से शासन छोड़ने व काशी जाकर प्रायश्चित करने का परामर्श दिया, वहीं दूसरी ओर हैदराबाद के निज़ाम के शासन का हिन्दु बहुल हैदराबाद में समर्थन किया।

8. यह गान्धी ही था जिसने मोहम्मद अली जिन्ना को कायदे-आज़म की उपाधि दी।

9. कॉंग्रेस के ध्वज निर्धारण के लिए बनी समिति (1931) ने सर्वसम्मति से चरखा अंकित भगवा वस्त्र पर निर्णय लिया किन्तु गाँधी कि जिद के कारण उसे तिरंगा कर दिया गया।

10. कॉंग्रेस के त्रिपुरा अधिवेशन में नेताजी सुभाष चन्द्र बोस को बहुमत से कॉंग्रेस अध्यक्ष चुन लिया गया किन्तु गान्धी पट्टभि सीतारमय्या का समर्थन कर रहा था, अत: सुभाष बाबू ने निरन्तर विरोध व असहयोग के कारण पदत्याग कर दिया।

11. लाहोर कॉंग्रेस में वल्लभभाई पटेल का बहुमत से चुनाव सम्पन्न हुआ किन्तु गान्धी की जिद के कारण यह पद जवाहरलाल नेहरु को दिया गया।

12. 14-15 जून, 1947 को दिल्ली में आयोजित अखिल भारतीय कॉंग्रेस समिति की बैठक में भारत विभाजन का प्रस्ताव अस्वीकृत होने वाला था, किन्तु गान्धी ने वहाँ पहुंच प्रस्ताव का समर्थन करवाया। यह भी तब जबकि उन्होंने स्वयं ही यह कहा था कि देश का विभाजन उनकी लाश पर होगा।

13. मोहम्मद अली जिन्ना ने गान्धी से विभाजन के समय हिन्दु मुस्लिम जनसँख्या की सम्पूर्ण अदला बदली का आग्रह किया था जिसे गान्धी ने अस्वीकार कर दिया।

14. जवाहरलाल की अध्यक्षता में मन्त्रीमण्डल ने सोमनाथ मन्दिर का सरकारी व्यय पर पुनर्निर्माण का प्रस्ताव पारित किया, किन्तु गान्धी जो कि मन्त्रीमण्डल के सदस्य भी नहीं थे ने सोमनाथ मन्दिर पर सरकारी व्यय के प्रस्ताव को निरस्त करवाया और 13 जनवरी 1948 को आमरण अनशन के माध्यम से सरकार पर दिल्ली की मस्जिदों का सरकारी खर्चे से पुनर्निर्माण कराने के लिए दबाव डाला।

15. पाकिस्तान से आए विस्थापित हिन्दुओं ने दिल्ली की खाली मस्जिदों में जब अस्थाई शरण ली तो गान्धी ने उन उजड़े हिन्दुओं को जिनमें वृद्ध, स्त्रियाँ व बालक अधिक थे मस्जिदों से से खदेड़ बाहर ठिठुरते शीत में रात बिताने पर मजबूर किया गया।

16. 22 अक्तूबर 1947 को पाकिस्तान ने काश्मीर पर आक्रमण कर दिया, उससे पूर्व माउँटबैटन ने भारत सरकार से पाकिस्तान सरकार को 55 करोड़ रुपए की राशि देने का परामर्श दिया था। केन्द्रीय मन्त्रीमण्डल ने आक्रमण के दृष्टिगत यह राशि देने को टालने का निर्णय लिया किन्तु गान्धी ने उसी समय यह राशि तुरन्त दिलवाने के लिए आमरण अनशन किया- फलस्वरूप यह राशि पाकिस्तान को भारत के हितों के विपरीत दे दी गयी।

उपरोक्त परिस्थितियों में नथूराम गोडसे नामक एक देशभक्त सच्चे भारतीय युवक ने गान्धी का वध कर दिया।
न्य़यालय में चले अभियोग के परिणामस्वरूप गोडसे को मृत्युदण्ड मिला किन्तु गोडसे ने न्यायालय में अपने कृत्य का जो स्पष्टीकरण दिया उससे प्रभावित होकर उस अभियोग के न्यायधीश श्री जे. डी. खोसला ने अपनी एक पुस्तक में लिखा-
"नथूराम का अभिभाषण दर्शकों के लिए एक आकर्षक दृश्य था। खचाखच भरा न्यायालय इतना भावाकुल हुआ कि लोगों की आहें और सिसकियाँ सुनने में आती थींऔर उनके गीले नेत्र और गिरने वाले आँसू दृष्टिगोचर होते थे। न्यायालय में उपस्थित उन प्रेक्षकों को यदि न्यायदान का कार्य सौंपा जाता तो मुझे तनिक भी संदेह नहीं कि उन्होंने अधिकाधिक सँख्या में यह घोषित किया होता कि नथूराम निर्दोष है।"

तो भी नथूराम ने भारतीय न्यायव्यवस्था के अनुसार एक व्यक्ति की हत्या के अपराध का दण्ड मृत्युदण्ड के रूप में सहज ही स्वीकार किया। परन्तु भारतमाता के विरुद्ध जो अपराध गान्धी ने किए, उनका दण्ड भारतमाता व उसकी सन्तानों को भुगतना पड़ रहा है। यह स्थिति कब बदलेगी?

यह विषय विशेष रूप से विचारणीय है, जिससे कि हम भारत के भविष्य का मार्ग निर्धारित कर सकें।

कुछ और प्रश्न
1- अपने इस बाप के बचपन के चित्र नदारद हैं क्यों? केवल एक १० वर्ष के लगभग की आयु का चित्र है।
2- इस बापू के अफ़्रीका जाने के पूर्व के चित्र कहाँ है? कहीं प्रदर्शनी में भी नहीं दीखते!
3- यह न कह देना कि बापू निर्धन परिवार से था चित्र कहाँ से बनवाता? स्मरण रहे ये विदेश गया था पढ़ने को।
4- गान्धी की अपनी आत्मकथा में इस उल्लेख का क्या अर्थ है- "करमचन्द के देहावसान के पश्चात् जब माँ पुतलीबाई घर का दरवाजा पीट रही थी तो मैंने यह
कहकर दरवाजा नहीं खोला कि मैं इस अवस्था में नहीं कि बाहर आऊँ।"
5- पाकिस्तान बनने पर वहाँ मन्दिरों के टूटने पर मोहनदास ने यह क्यों कहा कि यहाँ कोई मस्जिद नहीं टूटनी चाहिए? पाकिस्तान से हिन्दुओं के कट कर आता देख बापू ने कहा यहाँ एक भी मुस्लिम नहीं कटना चाहिए।



मेने कोशिश की है यहाँ कोई भी ऐसी बात न लिखी जाए जिसमे संदेह या बहाने की कोई गुंजाईश हो.
ऐसी बहोत सी बाते और भी जो बताई जा सकती थी पर उनके लिए कोई पर्याप्त साबुत मेरे पास नहीं है इसलिए नहीं बताई है.
फिर भी अगर आप में से किसी को भी एक भी बात पर किसी पर्कार का कोई संदेह हो तो मुझे बता सकते है में कोशिश करूँगा उसे दूर करने की.

धन्यवाद्
आदर सहित

नरवीर सांगवान

[rekhasmriti]

i do not know from where u got these facts buddy

but one thing sure which i always say to my DRs

" bina chingari ke aag nahi lagti , n bina aag ke dhuan nahi uthta so - kuch na kuch toh hua hai -"

whatever i have mentioned - taht clearly proves MKG - gr8 nahi tha- he was also human-
n he did make mistakes -
just like all of us

( please note : however i did beleive he played a significant role in india independence - peave n non violence stuff)

but yar sach mei - jo bhagat singh n all ke sath kiya mkg ne-
not fair- full on khundak types








परणाम,
में मेरे आदरणीय दोस्तों के ज्ञान को बढ़ने के लिए यहाँ कुछ अनकही बाते बताना चाहूँगा जिसे सुन कर शायद कुछ आप को कुछ मदत मिलेगी समझने में की में क्या कहना चाहता हू
महात्मा गान्धी
- कुछ अनकहे कटु तथ्य
1. अमृतसर के जलियाँवाला बाग़ गोली काण्ड (1919) से समस्त देशवासी आक्रोश में थे तथा चाहते थे कि इस नरसंहार के खलनायक जनरल डायर पर अभियोग चलाया जाए। गान्धी ने भारतवासियों के इस आग्रह को समर्थन देने से मना कर दिया।

2. भगत सिंह व उसके साथियों के मृत्युदण्ड के निर्णय से सारा देश क्षुब्ध था व गान्धी की ओर देख रहा था कि वह हस्तक्षेप कर इन देशभक्तों को मृत्यु से बचाएं, किन्तु गान्धी ने भगत सिंह की हिंसा को अनुचित ठहराते हुए जनसामान्य की इस माँग को अस्वीकार कर दिया। क्या आश्चर्य कि आज भी भगत सिंह वे अन्य क्रान्तिकारियों को आतंकवादी कहा जाता है।

3. 6 मई 1946 को समाजवादी कार्यकर्ताओं को अपने सम्बोधन में गान्धी ने मुस्लिम लीग की हिंसा के समक्ष अपनी आहुति देने की प्रेरणा दी।

4.मोहम्मद अली जिन्ना आदि राष्ट्रवादी मुस्लिम नेताओं के विरोध को अनदेखा करते हुए 1921 में गान्धी ने खिलाफ़त आन्दोलन को समर्थन देने की घोषणा की। तो भी केरल के मोपला में मुसलमानों द्वारा वहाँ के हिन्दुओं की मारकाट की जिसमें लगभग 1500 हिन्दु मारे गए व 2000 से अधिक को मुसलमान बना लिया गया। गान्धी ने इस हिंसा का विरोध नहीं किया, वरन् खुदा के बहादुर बन्दों की बहादुरी के रूप में वर्णन किया।

5.1926 में आर्य समाज द्वारा चलाए गए शुद्धि आन्दोलन में लगे स्वामी श्रद्धानन्द जी की हत्या अब्दुल रशीद नामक एक मुस्लिम युवक ने कर दी, इसकी प्रतिक्रियास्वरूप गान्धी ने अब्दुल रशीद को अपना भाई कह कर उसके इस कृत्य को उचित ठहराया व शुद्धि आन्दोलन को अनर्गल राष्ट्र-विरोधी तथा हिन्दु-मुस्लिम एकता के लिए अहितकारी घोषित किया।

6.गान्धी ने अनेक अवसरों पर छत्रपति शिवाजी, महाराणा प्रताप व गुरू गोविन्द सिंह जी को पथभ्रष्ट देशभक्त कहा।

7.गान्धी ने जहाँ एक ओर काश्मीर के हिन्दु राजा हरि सिंह को काश्मीर मुस्लिम बहुल होने से शासन छोड़ने व काशी जाकर प्रायश्चित करने का परामर्श दिया, वहीं दूसरी ओर हैदराबाद के निज़ाम के शासन का हिन्दु बहुल हैदराबाद में समर्थन किया।

8. यह गान्धी ही था जिसने मोहम्मद अली जिन्ना को कायदे-आज़म की उपाधि दी।

9. कॉंग्रेस के ध्वज निर्धारण के लिए बनी समिति (1931) ने सर्वसम्मति से चरखा अंकित भगवा वस्त्र पर निर्णय लिया किन्तु गाँधी कि जिद के कारण उसे तिरंगा कर दिया गया।

10. कॉंग्रेस के त्रिपुरा अधिवेशन में नेताजी सुभाष चन्द्र बोस को बहुमत से कॉंग्रेस अध्यक्ष चुन लिया गया किन्तु गान्धी पट्टभि सीतारमय्या का समर्थन कर रहा था, अत: सुभाष बाबू ने निरन्तर विरोध व असहयोग के कारण पदत्याग कर दिया।

11. लाहोर कॉंग्रेस में वल्लभभाई पटेल का बहुमत से चुनाव सम्पन्न हुआ किन्तु गान्धी की जिद के कारण यह पद जवाहरलाल नेहरु को दिया गया।

12. 14-15 जून, 1947 को दिल्ली में आयोजित अखिल भारतीय कॉंग्रेस समिति की बैठक में भारत विभाजन का प्रस्ताव अस्वीकृत होने वाला था, किन्तु गान्धी ने वहाँ पहुंच प्रस्ताव का समर्थन करवाया। यह भी तब जबकि उन्होंने स्वयं ही यह कहा था कि देश का विभाजन उनकी लाश पर होगा।

13. मोहम्मद अली जिन्ना ने गान्धी से विभाजन के समय हिन्दु मुस्लिम जनसँख्या की सम्पूर्ण अदला बदली का आग्रह किया था जिसे गान्धी ने अस्वीकार कर दिया।

14. जवाहरलाल की अध्यक्षता में मन्त्रीमण्डल ने सोमनाथ मन्दिर का सरकारी व्यय पर पुनर्निर्माण का प्रस्ताव पारित किया, किन्तु गान्धी जो कि मन्त्रीमण्डल के सदस्य भी नहीं थे ने सोमनाथ मन्दिर पर सरकारी व्यय के प्रस्ताव को निरस्त करवाया और 13 जनवरी 1948 को आमरण अनशन के माध्यम से सरकार पर दिल्ली की मस्जिदों का सरकारी खर्चे से पुनर्निर्माण कराने के लिए दबाव डाला।

15. पाकिस्तान से आए विस्थापित हिन्दुओं ने दिल्ली की खाली मस्जिदों में जब अस्थाई शरण ली तो गान्धी ने उन उजड़े हिन्दुओं को जिनमें वृद्ध, स्त्रियाँ व बालक अधिक थे मस्जिदों से से खदेड़ बाहर ठिठुरते शीत में रात बिताने पर मजबूर किया गया।

16. 22 अक्तूबर 1947 को पाकिस्तान ने काश्मीर पर आक्रमण कर दिया, उससे पूर्व माउँटबैटन ने भारत सरकार से पाकिस्तान सरकार को 55 करोड़ रुपए की राशि देने का परामर्श दिया था। केन्द्रीय मन्त्रीमण्डल ने आक्रमण के दृष्टिगत यह राशि देने को टालने का निर्णय लिया किन्तु गान्धी ने उसी समय यह राशि तुरन्त दिलवाने के लिए आमरण अनशन किया- फलस्वरूप यह राशि पाकिस्तान को भारत के हितों के विपरीत दे दी गयी।

उपरोक्त परिस्थितियों में नथूराम गोडसे नामक एक देशभक्त सच्चे भारतीय युवक ने गान्धी का वध कर दिया।
न्य़यालय में चले अभियोग के परिणामस्वरूप गोडसे को मृत्युदण्ड मिला किन्तु गोडसे ने न्यायालय में अपने कृत्य का जो स्पष्टीकरण दिया उससे प्रभावित होकर उस अभियोग के न्यायधीश श्री जे. डी. खोसला ने अपनी एक पुस्तक में लिखा-
"नथूराम का अभिभाषण दर्शकों के लिए एक आकर्षक दृश्य था। खचाखच भरा न्यायालय इतना भावाकुल हुआ कि लोगों की आहें और सिसकियाँ सुनने में आती थींऔर उनके गीले नेत्र और गिरने वाले आँसू दृष्टिगोचर होते थे। न्यायालय में उपस्थित उन प्रेक्षकों को यदि न्यायदान का कार्य सौंपा जाता तो मुझे तनिक भी संदेह नहीं कि उन्होंने अधिकाधिक सँख्या में यह घोषित किया होता कि नथूराम निर्दोष है।"

तो भी नथूराम ने भारतीय न्यायव्यवस्था के अनुसार एक व्यक्ति की हत्या के अपराध का दण्ड मृत्युदण्ड के रूप में सहज ही स्वीकार किया। परन्तु भारतमाता के विरुद्ध जो अपराध गान्धी ने किए, उनका दण्ड भारतमाता व उसकी सन्तानों को भुगतना पड़ रहा है। यह स्थिति कब बदलेगी?

यह विषय विशेष रूप से विचारणीय है, जिससे कि हम भारत के भविष्य का मार्ग निर्धारित कर सकें।

कुछ और प्रश्न
1- अपने इस बाप के बचपन के चित्र नदारद हैं क्यों? केवल एक १० वर्ष के लगभग की आयु का चित्र है।
2- इस बापू के अफ़्रीका जाने के पूर्व के चित्र कहाँ है? कहीं प्रदर्शनी में भी नहीं दीखते!
3- यह न कह देना कि बापू निर्धन परिवार से था चित्र कहाँ से बनवाता? स्मरण रहे ये विदेश गया था पढ़ने को।
4- गान्धी की अपनी आत्मकथा में इस उल्लेख का क्या अर्थ है- "करमचन्द के देहावसान के पश्चात् जब माँ पुतलीबाई घर का दरवाजा पीट रही थी तो मैंने यह
कहकर दरवाजा नहीं खोला कि मैं इस अवस्था में नहीं कि बाहर आऊँ।"
5- पाकिस्तान बनने पर वहाँ मन्दिरों के टूटने पर मोहनदास ने यह क्यों कहा कि यहाँ कोई मस्जिद नहीं टूटनी चाहिए? पाकिस्तान से हिन्दुओं के कट कर आता देख बापू ने कहा यहाँ एक भी मुस्लिम नहीं कटना चाहिए।



मेने कोशिश की है यहाँ कोई भी ऐसी बात न लिखी जाए जिसमे संदेह या बहाने की कोई गुंजाईश हो.
ऐसी बहोत सी बाते और भी जो बताई जा सकती थी पर उनके लिए कोई पर्याप्त साबुत मेरे पास नहीं है इसलिए नहीं बताई है.
फिर भी अगर आप में से किसी को भी एक भी बात पर किसी पर्कार का कोई संदेह हो तो मुझे बता सकते है में कोशिश करूँगा उसे दूर करने की.

धन्यवाद्
आदर सहित

नरवीर सांगवान

[rekhasmriti]

just b'coz soemone does not follow ur ideology
u would abandon them

kahan gaya- desh ka bhair chara?????????/





Gandhiji believed in non violence and satyagrah whereas the revolutionary freedom fighters believed that if you want to win independence then revolutionary methods have to be applied against the imperialist forces to force them to leave India.
You must study relevant contemporary literature to understand the ideology of both the groups of the freedom fighters; and then, you would find that aim of both of the categories of people was to attain freedom for the nation but only the methods of the two differed. Persons belonging to both these categories were great nationalists and patriots.

We have no right to condemn anyone outright without understanding the complete gamut of the milieu of the day when he/she were active.

Thanks.

[rekhasmriti]

bhaisab---- emotions par bhi control kiya toh
tab toh life bahut calculative ho jayegi

agreed i m way too emotional ( can't help it - drawback of being cancerian)

i may have not read those articles n all that

n trust me- i don not have time n interest as well

bas bhaisab ek simple logic samajh nahi aati

kal ko meri itni chalti desh mei-
n some of yougstes were about to get hanged-

mujhe apni aankhen close kar leni chahiye

------- punishment milni chahiye thi agreed- but bhai fansi--------------


aagr apka point view sahi hai

toh sir i can bet - mera bhi galat nahi hai





hahaha.....It's okay don't buy my argument...but it doesn't change the fact...

karminder and Dr Rajpal...has put some fact....read them...go by fact not by emotion and then form your opinion.

PS: If you are a "Tomar" then you are mine sister...so just a small suggestion....use your emotion at right place. :)

[rekhasmriti]

" that disagreement gets to a childish name calling level it is time for people to regroup, catch their breath "


m i missing something?????????


sir g- i beleive you are not pointing at me-
if so -
sorry i may have been carried away

would be careful in future




Hellow friends,

This i am not saying for a special person.
I'm advising to all my friends here.

I think that controversy in and of itself is not a negative thing.
A discussion should have a variety of opinions in it. The key differene between a discussion of differing views and what has been present in several recent threads has been the personal attacks on individuals.
There is nothing wrong with not agreeing on a topic but when that disagreement gets to a childish name calling level it is time for people to regroup, catch their breath and when they are able to return to the discussion and discuss their cause without resorting to personal attacks.

I have actually learned a lot from discussing topics with people who had differeing views than me. There have also been times when I had to agree to disagree. It is far to easy though for people to take someone disagreeing with their opinion as someone disagreeing or disapproving of them.

I have found that for me when I start taking the disagreement personally, I need to step back because that is when I stop hearing what the other person says and close my mind to learning.

Keep your mind open for others.

So friends
I hope you can understand what i want to say.
so i request to all my friends please try to do healthy discussion always.http://www.jatland.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.png

Dhanyawad
http://www.jatland.com/forums/images/icons/icon6.png
With regards

[rekhasmriti]

hahahhahahhahahhaah
i always find ur comments - absolutely unpredictable


waise - no offence to anyone

it was awesome yar-- n quoting China toh gr8 hai sir g




Oh! Like Bhagat Singh was trying to get freedom for China?

[narvir]

i do not know from where u got these facts buddy

but one thing sure which i always say to my DRs

" bina chingari ke aag nahi lagti , n bina aag ke dhuan nahi uthta so - kuch na kuch toh hua hai -"

whatever i have mentioned - taht clearly proves MKG - gr8 nahi tha- he was also human-
n he did make mistakes -
just like all of us

( please note : however i did beleive he played a significant role in india independence - peave n non violence stuff)

but yar sach mei - jo bhagat singh n all ke sath kiya mkg ne-
not fair- full on khundak types

Mam,

These studies have a Mac behind a word which forced me to do it.

Are thik hai bhai tum pakistan jindabad kaho mujhe koi aitraj nahi,par tum hundustan murdabad kaho ye mujhe manjur nahi.

Gandhi ji ko mahan kaho hume aitraj nahi,par Nathu ram ko cold blooded murderer kaho ye hume manjur nahi.

Thanks

[rekhasmriti]

"was powerful but he was powerful within law coz he never did anything against law"

Sir - i m in agreement that ur knowldege level is way too more than me-
please correct m eif i m wrong-

" Non Cooperation- kya woh as Per LAW tha- kyonki apne kaha mkg never did anything against law"



"who knows,may be gandhi ji regreted this whole his life that he couldnt do anything to save bhagat."

that proves- he was not that gr8- he had also made mistakes after we all are human
" to err is human "

agar humei kissi ki achayee pasand hai - taht doe snot mean we would ignore his failure- n disqualities etc

just b'coz we like somebody that does not make him perfect





dear samar
bhagat singh was a great revolutionary and made supreme sacrifice for his motherland and not for a single person
i salute his bravery and his sacrifice at that young age. he fought for india in his own way that he chose was right
i hv read many pamphlet of bhagat singh and am huge fan of his thoughts but here i just want to say that we should understand that gandhis could not do anything about bhagat singhs hanging because he was already convicted by the court and his capital punishment was laready declared. even bhagat singh knew that once he will be charged nd found guilty of bomb case british govt will not spare him.
now trying to stop bhagat's hanging was going against law that again was a crime nd for that anybody could be pushed in jail.
gandhis couldnt do anything more than just to put a request before govt to change their decision and that request was rejected.
i know gandhis was powerful but he was powerful within law coz he never did anything against law and i m sure that if british govt had arrested bhagat without any charges gandhi wd hv got him out of jail, but bhagat's crime was not minor. fate of that "MAST MALANG"(he was so brave nd fearless) was already decided.
gandhis approach was to break the independency of british govt and get a strong postion of congress nd then figting for rights and slowly acquire such a strong position that one day make british govt feel that india no more belongs to them.
who knows,may be gandhi ji regreted this whole his life that he couldnt do anything to save bhagat. many things are never written in history nd never known thats why m telling that try to be gandhi nd evrystep u will feel chage in urself nd ur thoughts.

[narvir]

" that disagreement gets to a childish name calling level it is time for people to regroup, catch their breath "


m i missing something?????????


sir g- i beleive you are not pointing at me-
if so -
sorry i may have been carried away

would be careful in future

Hellow,

i am not targeting to anyone here,
that writes here is a simple written.
Excuse me if you find it

Thankz

[narvir]

( please note : however i did beleive he played a significant role in india independence - peave n non violence stuff)

but yar sach mei - jo bhagat singh n all ke sath kiya mkg ne-
not fair- full on khundak types

Ye to nainsafi hai
Ye aap galat aarop laga rahe hai gandhi ji pe.Bhagat singh ke sath kuchh bhi nahi kiya gandhi ji ne.

Bhagat singh ko to jarurat hi nahi thi.wo to khud fansi pe chadhna chahte the warna angerejo ki kya okat thi jo bhagat singh ko fansi dete.
bhagat singh ka maksad kisi ko marna ya crime karna nahi tha.warna assembly me bomb fekne ki jarurat hi nahi thi.
mara to kahi or bhi ja sakta tha tarike crime ke or bhi kai the.

Bhagat singh ka to overall maksad hi desh me kranti ki aag lagana or desh ke liye jan dena tha.

jisme wo kamyab bhi huye.agar in jaise log is desh me na hote to mil chuki thi azadi angrej gandhi ji ko hath jod kar de jate aajadi aaram se .

Ye lo gandhi ji aap ahinsa ke pujari ho,aap ne kabhi khadag nahi uthai,kabhi dhal nahi uthai isliye hum aap ko azad kar rahe hai khush raho...................

[rekhasmriti]

hahahahahahahha

well i m not fan of either one

but yar tere facts ache the



Mam,

These studies have a Mac behind a word which forced me to do it.

Are thik hai bhai tum pakistan jindabad kaho mujhe koi aitraj nahi,par tum hundustan murdabad kaho ye mujhe manjur nahi.

Gandhi ji ko mahan kaho hume aitraj nahi,par Nathu ram ko cold blooded murderer kaho ye hume manjur nahi.

Thanks

[rekhasmriti]

arre yar -
not offended at all

was just thinking- kahin emotional hokar mei kabhi faltoo bol gayee hoon toh

hey- i really admire ur posts- logical- with facts- strong - with lots of direction

n aise logon ki bat ka mei bura nahi manti ever

so plz -- yeh excuse............- kissi aur ke liye bacha le - does not suit me

have fun buddy :)





Hellow,

i am not targeting to anyone here,
that writes here is a simple written.
Excuse me if you find it

Thankz

[rekhasmriti]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm


but yar yeh soch- agar won fansi par nahi chadhte toh

nehru- sardar patel- n many more- ke sath woh bhi baithte humari sarkar mei

n i can bet - tab india ki picture hi kuch aur hoti


yar i was saying ek hindustani ko doosre ki help karni chahiye thi

bhagat ne ek approach badal di thi
agar unhe fansi nahi hoti-
toh woh approach aag ke tarah india mei lagti

so situations would have been way to different


yar man ya na man-
azadi humie non- violence se milli hai- not just that there are other reasons as well

reasons
- ek toh world war 2 mei itna nuksam uthaya angrezon ne
- sab jagah colonolization was getting bad feedback
- sara kuch toh loot hi liya hai india se , ab kuch bacha nahi so kyun bewajah pange mei fanse, bada arsa ho gaya marte- marte , jao le lo apna india
- but as tumne humei itna pareshan kiya , so ab pakistan bana dete hai - some years later " dimag mei bhadak" ka kam woh karenge humare bajaye
- upar se yeh gandhi hath bhi nahi uthata, kab tak pitega
- in short woh tang aa gaye the shayad , unke patience se






Ye to nainsafi hai
Ye aap galat aarop laga rahe hai gandhi ji pe.Bhagat singh ke sath kuchh bhi nahi kiya gandhi ji ne.

Bhagat singh ko to jarurat hi nahi thi.wo to khud fansi pe chadhna chahte the warna angerejo ki kya okat thi jo bhagat singh ko fansi dete.
bhagat singh ka maksad kisi ko marna ya crime karna nahi tha.warna assembly me bomb fekne ki jarurat hi nahi thi.
mara to kahi or bhi ja sakta tha tarike crime ke or bhi kai the.

Bhagat singh ka to overall maksad hi desh me kranti ki aag lagana or desh ke liye jan dena tha.

jisme wo kamyab bhi huye.agar in jaise log is desh me na hote to mil chuki thi azadi angrej gandhi ji ko hath jod kar de jate aajadi aaram se .

Ye lo gandhi ji aap ahinsa ke pujari ho,aap ne kabhi khadag nahi uthai,kabhi dhal nahi uthai isliye hum aap ko azad kar rahe hai khush raho...................

[drkarminder]

"was powerful but he was powerful within law coz he never did anything against law"

Sir - i m in agreement that ur knowldege level is way too more than me-
please correct m eif i m wrong-

" Non Cooperation- kya woh as Per LAW tha- kyonki apne kaha mkg never did anything against law"



"who knows,may be gandhi ji regreted this whole his life that he couldnt do anything to save bhagat."

that proves- he was not that gr8- he had also made mistakes after we all are human
" to err is human "

agar humei kissi ki achayee pasand hai - taht doe snot mean we would ignore his failure- n disqualities etc

just b'coz we like somebody that does not make him perfect


dear rekha
non cooperation movement was not against law. it was a part of freedom movement nd was to discourage the use of british goods.
Protestors would refuse to buy British goods, adopt the use of local handicrafts, and try to uphold the Indian values of honour and integrity.
so,this was not against law. u are not resticted by law to make particular purchase.

[tarzon]

Hahaha...So you require facebook propaganda text to substantiate your argument. Nice! No comment from my side!




परणाम,
में मेरे आदरणीय दोस्तों के ज्ञान को बढ़ने के लिए यहाँ कुछ अनकही बाते बताना चाहूँगा जिसे सुन कर शायद कुछ आप को कुछ मदत मिलेगी समझने में की में क्या कहना चाहता हू
महात्मा गान्धी
- कुछ अनकहे कटु तथ्य
1. अमृतसर के जलियाँवाला बाग़ गोली काण्ड (1919) से समस्त देशवासी आक्रोश में थे तथा चाहते थे कि इस नरसंहार के खलनायक जनरल डायर पर अभियोग चलाया जाए। गान्धी ने भारतवासियों के इस आग्रह को समर्थन देने से मना कर दिया।

2. भगत सिंह व उसके साथियों के मृत्युदण्ड के निर्णय से सारा देश क्षुब्ध था व गान्धी की ओर देख रहा था कि वह हस्तक्षेप कर इन देशभक्तों को मृत्यु से बचाएं, किन्तु गान्धी ने भगत सिंह की हिंसा को अनुचित ठहराते हुए जनसामान्य की इस माँग को अस्वीकार कर दिया। क्या आश्चर्य कि आज भी भगत सिंह वे अन्य क्रान्तिकारियों को आतंकवादी कहा जाता है।

3. 6 मई 1946 को समाजवादी कार्यकर्ताओं को अपने सम्बोधन में गान्धी ने मुस्लिम लीग की हिंसा के समक्ष अपनी आहुति देने की प्रेरणा दी।

4.मोहम्मद अली जिन्ना आदि राष्ट्रवादी मुस्लिम नेताओं के विरोध को अनदेखा करते हुए 1921 में गान्धी ने खिलाफ़त आन्दोलन को समर्थन देने की घोषणा की। तो भी केरल के मोपला में मुसलमानों द्वारा वहाँ के हिन्दुओं की मारकाट की जिसमें लगभग 1500 हिन्दु मारे गए व 2000 से अधिक को मुसलमान बना लिया गया। गान्धी ने इस हिंसा का विरोध नहीं किया, वरन् खुदा के बहादुर बन्दों की बहादुरी के रूप में वर्णन किया।

5.1926 में आर्य समाज द्वारा चलाए गए शुद्धि आन्दोलन में लगे स्वामी श्रद्धानन्द जी की हत्या अब्दुल रशीद नामक एक मुस्लिम युवक ने कर दी, इसकी प्रतिक्रियास्वरूप गान्धी ने अब्दुल रशीद को अपना भाई कह कर उसके इस कृत्य को उचित ठहराया व शुद्धि आन्दोलन को अनर्गल राष्ट्र-विरोधी तथा हिन्दु-मुस्लिम एकता के लिए अहितकारी घोषित किया।

6.गान्धी ने अनेक अवसरों पर छत्रपति शिवाजी, महाराणा प्रताप व गुरू गोविन्द सिंह जी को पथभ्रष्ट देशभक्त कहा।

7.गान्धी ने जहाँ एक ओर काश्मीर के हिन्दु राजा हरि सिंह को काश्मीर मुस्लिम बहुल होने से शासन छोड़ने व काशी जाकर प्रायश्चित करने का परामर्श दिया, वहीं दूसरी ओर हैदराबाद के निज़ाम के शासन का हिन्दु बहुल हैदराबाद में समर्थन किया।

8. यह गान्धी ही था जिसने मोहम्मद अली जिन्ना को कायदे-आज़म की उपाधि दी।

9. कॉंग्रेस के ध्वज निर्धारण के लिए बनी समिति (1931) ने सर्वसम्मति से चरखा अंकित भगवा वस्त्र पर निर्णय लिया किन्तु गाँधी कि जिद के कारण उसे तिरंगा कर दिया गया।

10. कॉंग्रेस के त्रिपुरा अधिवेशन में नेताजी सुभाष चन्द्र बोस को बहुमत से कॉंग्रेस अध्यक्ष चुन लिया गया किन्तु गान्धी पट्टभि सीतारमय्या का समर्थन कर रहा था, अत: सुभाष बाबू ने निरन्तर विरोध व असहयोग के कारण पदत्याग कर दिया।

11. लाहोर कॉंग्रेस में वल्लभभाई पटेल का बहुमत से चुनाव सम्पन्न हुआ किन्तु गान्धी की जिद के कारण यह पद जवाहरलाल नेहरु को दिया गया।

12. 14-15 जून, 1947 को दिल्ली में आयोजित अखिल भारतीय कॉंग्रेस समिति की बैठक में भारत विभाजन का प्रस्ताव अस्वीकृत होने वाला था, किन्तु गान्धी ने वहाँ पहुंच प्रस्ताव का समर्थन करवाया। यह भी तब जबकि उन्होंने स्वयं ही यह कहा था कि देश का विभाजन उनकी लाश पर होगा।

13. मोहम्मद अली जिन्ना ने गान्धी से विभाजन के समय हिन्दु मुस्लिम जनसँख्या की सम्पूर्ण अदला बदली का आग्रह किया था जिसे गान्धी ने अस्वीकार कर दिया।

14. जवाहरलाल की अध्यक्षता में मन्त्रीमण्डल ने सोमनाथ मन्दिर का सरकारी व्यय पर पुनर्निर्माण का प्रस्ताव पारित किया, किन्तु गान्धी जो कि मन्त्रीमण्डल के सदस्य भी नहीं थे ने सोमनाथ मन्दिर पर सरकारी व्यय के प्रस्ताव को निरस्त करवाया और 13 जनवरी 1948 को आमरण अनशन के माध्यम से सरकार पर दिल्ली की मस्जिदों का सरकारी खर्चे से पुनर्निर्माण कराने के लिए दबाव डाला।

15. पाकिस्तान से आए विस्थापित हिन्दुओं ने दिल्ली की खाली मस्जिदों में जब अस्थाई शरण ली तो गान्धी ने उन उजड़े हिन्दुओं को जिनमें वृद्ध, स्त्रियाँ व बालक अधिक थे मस्जिदों से से खदेड़ बाहर ठिठुरते शीत में रात बिताने पर मजबूर किया गया।

16. 22 अक्तूबर 1947 को पाकिस्तान ने काश्मीर पर आक्रमण कर दिया, उससे पूर्व माउँटबैटन ने भारत सरकार से पाकिस्तान सरकार को 55 करोड़ रुपए की राशि देने का परामर्श दिया था। केन्द्रीय मन्त्रीमण्डल ने आक्रमण के दृष्टिगत यह राशि देने को टालने का निर्णय लिया किन्तु गान्धी ने उसी समय यह राशि तुरन्त दिलवाने के लिए आमरण अनशन किया- फलस्वरूप यह राशि पाकिस्तान को भारत के हितों के विपरीत दे दी गयी।

उपरोक्त परिस्थितियों में नथूराम गोडसे नामक एक देशभक्त सच्चे भारतीय युवक ने गान्धी का वध कर दिया।
न्य़यालय में चले अभियोग के परिणामस्वरूप गोडसे को मृत्युदण्ड मिला किन्तु गोडसे ने न्यायालय में अपने कृत्य का जो स्पष्टीकरण दिया उससे प्रभावित होकर उस अभियोग के न्यायधीश श्री जे. डी. खोसला ने अपनी एक पुस्तक में लिखा-
"नथूराम का अभिभाषण दर्शकों के लिए एक आकर्षक दृश्य था। खचाखच भरा न्यायालय इतना भावाकुल हुआ कि लोगों की आहें और सिसकियाँ सुनने में आती थींऔर उनके गीले नेत्र और गिरने वाले आँसू दृष्टिगोचर होते थे। न्यायालय में उपस्थित उन प्रेक्षकों को यदि न्यायदान का कार्य सौंपा जाता तो मुझे तनिक भी संदेह नहीं कि उन्होंने अधिकाधिक सँख्या में यह घोषित किया होता कि नथूराम निर्दोष है।"

तो भी नथूराम ने भारतीय न्यायव्यवस्था के अनुसार एक व्यक्ति की हत्या के अपराध का दण्ड मृत्युदण्ड के रूप में सहज ही स्वीकार किया। परन्तु भारतमाता के विरुद्ध जो अपराध गान्धी ने किए, उनका दण्ड भारतमाता व उसकी सन्तानों को भुगतना पड़ रहा है। यह स्थिति कब बदलेगी?

यह विषय विशेष रूप से विचारणीय है, जिससे कि हम भारत के भविष्य का मार्ग निर्धारित कर सकें।

कुछ और प्रश्न
1- अपने इस बाप के बचपन के चित्र नदारद हैं क्यों? केवल एक १० वर्ष के लगभग की आयु का चित्र है।
2- इस बापू के अफ़्रीका जाने के पूर्व के चित्र कहाँ है? कहीं प्रदर्शनी में भी नहीं दीखते!
3- यह न कह देना कि बापू निर्धन परिवार से था चित्र कहाँ से बनवाता? स्मरण रहे ये विदेश गया था पढ़ने को।
4- गान्धी की अपनी आत्मकथा में इस उल्लेख का क्या अर्थ है- "करमचन्द के देहावसान के पश्चात् जब माँ पुतलीबाई घर का दरवाजा पीट रही थी तो मैंने यह
कहकर दरवाजा नहीं खोला कि मैं इस अवस्था में नहीं कि बाहर आऊँ।"
5- पाकिस्तान बनने पर वहाँ मन्दिरों के टूटने पर मोहनदास ने यह क्यों कहा कि यहाँ कोई मस्जिद नहीं टूटनी चाहिए? पाकिस्तान से हिन्दुओं के कट कर आता देख बापू ने कहा यहाँ एक भी मुस्लिम नहीं कटना चाहिए।



मेने कोशिश की है यहाँ कोई भी ऐसी बात न लिखी जाए जिसमे संदेह या बहाने की कोई गुंजाईश हो.
ऐसी बहोत सी बाते और भी जो बताई जा सकती थी पर उनके लिए कोई पर्याप्त साबुत मेरे पास नहीं है इसलिए नहीं बताई है.
फिर भी अगर आप में से किसी को भी एक भी बात पर किसी पर्कार का कोई संदेह हो तो मुझे बता सकते है में कोशिश करूँगा उसे दूर करने की.

धन्यवाद्
आदर सहित

नरवीर सांगवान

[tarzon]

Sis wo to marji hai aapki life ko kis perspective mai dhekna mai...mai jayda kuch nahi kahoonga is baray mai.

baki pahlay ye to prove karo ki 1931 mai Gandhi ki kitni chalti thi????

baki rahi awaaj uthanay ki baat...Historical fact says that Gandhi raised the issue...and British Denied...then what more you want?

For your kind info along Bhgat Singh two more revolutionary of equal stature got hanged.......nobody out of you ever said....Gandhi never tried to save to life Rajguru or Sukhdev and many more revolutionary......Isn't it hypocrisy just to accuse Gandhi?
100s of people got hanged those days...and 1000's people put behind the bar...or even sent to Kala Pani...

agar ki baat manay to bas Gandhi to in sub ki fasi rukwanay mai laga rehta or jail sai sabko chudwanay mai...or 2-4 mahinay baad mar jata...kyonki angrej to chodnay walay nahi that in revolutionary ko....

baki rahi tumhari itni chalti to tum to pahad palat deti :P

India mai vote dene ki right sabhi adult ki hia....50% people don't even excerize this right...ek vote to cast hota nahi Indians par apna...batay banwa lo Internet par badi badi...bas...mai or bhi updesh dai sakta hoon...but again...I'll say read proper references and facts and then form your opinion...otherwise you are just fooling yourself...




bhaisab---- emotions par bhi control kiya toh
tab toh life bahut calculative ho jayegi

agreed i m way too emotional ( can't help it - drawback of being cancerian)

i may have not read those articles n all that

n trust me- i don not have time n interest as well

bas bhaisab ek simple logic samajh nahi aati

kal ko meri itni chalti desh mei-
n some of yougstes were about to get hanged-

mujhe apni aankhen close kar leni chahiye

------- punishment milni chahiye thi agreed- but bhai fansi--------------


aagr apka point view sahi hai

toh sir i can bet - mera bhi galat nahi hai

[rekhasmriti]

" baki rahi tumhari itni chalti to tum to pahad palat deti "


bhaisab - mera beta chadh raha hota fansi at age of some teens- mei toh palat hi deti pahad - itna i m so damn sure about myself-



" Internet par badi badi...bas...mai or bhi updesh dai sakta hoon...but again...I'll say read proper references and facts and then form your opinion...otherwise you are just fooling yourself..."

aap to gussa ho rahe ho

bahar bolne se kuch nahi hoga- isliye toh apni bhadas yahan nikal rahi hoon


reagrding facts n all that - to be honest with u- whatever facts i mention ( not much - i agree) i have read in school or college
but aaj i really have got no time to read - so busy with personal life

but that does not mean i don't know anything


now lemme come to Voting part -
in agreement with u - even i have never voted- it would be way to weird but i have pan- passport-dl- but no voting card
n i don't even bother to get that

for whom should i vote- i do not see any single leader -

instead of voting for someone wrong- i would better not vote

mei toh kehti hoon- ek bar sare elections boycot karo-dhuan-dhuan ho jayegi sari democracry

jiske jhande hum gadte hai------
then they would realise hum hai to tum ho
hum ghanton dhoop mei khade rehte hai so that tum kursi par baitho
jis din humne hath kheench liya- tumhara kya hoga

ab plz yeh nat kehna- itna hai toh khud lad lo election
sir- mei apna kam -bahut imandari se karti hoon- that is my KRA

agar election mera KRA hota - toh trust me-
Smriti does not know how to fail
i work for success n betterment







Sis wo to marji hai aapki life ko kis perspective mai dhekna mai...mai jayda kuch nahi kahoonga is baray mai.

baki pahlay ye to prove karo ki 1931 mai Gandhi ki kitni chalti thi????

baki rahi awaaj uthanay ki baat...Historical fact says that Gandhi raised the issue...and British Denied...then what more you want?

For your kind info along Bhgat Singh two more revolutionary of equal stature got hanged.......nobody out of you ever said....Gandhi never tried to save to life Rajguru or Sukhdev and many more revolutionary......Isn't it hypocrisy just to accuse Gandhi?
100s of people got hanged those days...and 1000's people put behind the bar...or even sent to Kala Pani...

agar ki baat manay to bas Gandhi to in sub ki fasi rukwanay mai laga rehta or jail sai sabko chudwanay mai...or 2-4 mahinay baad mar jata...kyonki angrej to chodnay walay nahi that in revolutionary ko....

baki rahi tumhari itni chalti to tum to pahad palat deti :P

India mai vote dene ki right sabhi adult ki hia....50% people don't even excerize this right...ek vote to cast hota nahi Indians par apna...batay banwa lo Internet par badi badi...bas...mai or bhi updesh dai sakta hoon...but again...I'll say read proper references and facts and then form your opinion...otherwise you are just fooling yourself...




Sis wo to marji hai aapki life ko kis perspective mai dhekna mai...mai jayda kuch nahi kahoonga is baray mai.

baki pahlay ye to prove karo ki 1931 mai Gandhi ki kitni chalti thi????

baki rahi awaaj uthanay ki baat...Historical fact says that Gandhi raised the issue...and British Denied...then what more you want?

For your kind info along Bhgat Singh two more revolutionary of equal stature got hanged.......nobody out of you ever said....Gandhi never tried to save to life Rajguru or Sukhdev and many more revolutionary......Isn't it hypocrisy just to accuse Gandhi?
100s of people got hanged those days...and 1000's people put behind the bar...or even sent to Kala Pani...

agar ki baat manay to bas Gandhi to in sub ki fasi rukwanay mai laga rehta or jail sai sabko chudwanay mai...or 2-4 mahinay baad mar jata...kyonki angrej to chodnay walay nahi that in revolutionary ko....

baki rahi tumhari itni chalti to tum to pahad palat deti :P

India mai vote dene ki right sabhi adult ki hia....50% people don't even excerize this right...ek vote to cast hota nahi Indians par apna...batay banwa lo Internet par badi badi...bas...mai or bhi updesh dai sakta hoon...but again...I'll say read proper references and facts and then form your opinion...otherwise you are just fooling yourself...

[rekhasmriti]

sorry agar zyada bol gayee toh bhaisab

apne bat hi aise ki





Sis wo to marji hai aapki life ko kis perspective mai dhekna mai...mai jayda kuch nahi kahoonga is baray mai.

baki pahlay ye to prove karo ki 1931 mai Gandhi ki kitni chalti thi????

baki rahi awaaj uthanay ki baat...Historical fact says that Gandhi raised the issue...and British Denied...then what more you want?

For your kind info along Bhgat Singh two more revolutionary of equal stature got hanged.......nobody out of you ever said....Gandhi never tried to save to life Rajguru or Sukhdev and many more revolutionary......Isn't it hypocrisy just to accuse Gandhi?
100s of people got hanged those days...and 1000's people put behind the bar...or even sent to Kala Pani...

agar ki baat manay to bas Gandhi to in sub ki fasi rukwanay mai laga rehta or jail sai sabko chudwanay mai...or 2-4 mahinay baad mar jata...kyonki angrej to chodnay walay nahi that in revolutionary ko....

baki rahi tumhari itni chalti to tum to pahad palat deti :P

India mai vote dene ki right sabhi adult ki hia....50% people don't even excerize this right...ek vote to cast hota nahi Indians par apna...batay banwa lo Internet par badi badi...bas...mai or bhi updesh dai sakta hoon...but again...I'll say read proper references and facts and then form your opinion...otherwise you are just fooling yourself...

[tarzon]

hahaha....arry tumsay gussa hokar kya karoonga...tum to sis ho meri....

par haan jismay tumhara bas nahi chalta...wo cheej palatna chati ho...

or jo cheej tumharay haath mai hia...usko tum karna nahi chati....

election boycott karna etc etc ....this is not in your hand...and don't even expect ki koi aisa din India mai aayga jub saray Indian aisa sochyngay. This country is diverse country with diverse culture and opinion. So sub log ek jaise to klabhi soch hi nahi saktay. So na rhayga baans na bajygi bansuri....na kabhi ek jaise soch hogi or na hi kabhi sub mil kar election ka boycott karngay...

Tumharay haath mai vote ki power hia....har election mai 30-35 candidiate khday hotay hia...jaruri nahi ki tum...har baar BJP, congress ya Choutala ko vote do....baki kisi or ko bhi dai sakti....Important thing is that....you should have to exercise your voting right.


" baki rahi tumhari itni chalti to tum to pahad palat deti "


bhaisab - mera beta chadh raha hota fansi at age of some teens- mei toh palat hi deti pahad - itna i m so damn sure about myself-



" Internet par badi badi...bas...mai or bhi updesh dai sakta hoon...but again...I'll say read proper references and facts and then form your opinion...otherwise you are just fooling yourself..."

aap to gussa ho rahe ho

bahar bolne se kuch nahi hoga- isliye toh apni bhadas yahan nikal rahi hoon


reagrding facts n all that - to be honest with u- whatever facts i mention ( not much - i agree) i have read in school or college
but aaj i really have got no time to read - so busy with personal life

but that does not mean i don't know anything


now lemme come to Voting part -
in agreement with u - even i have never voted- it would be way to weird but i have pan- passport-dl- but no voting card
n i don't even bother to get that

for whom should i vote- i do not see any single leader -

instead of voting for someone wrong- i would better not vote

mei toh kehti hoon- ek bar sare elections boycot karo-dhuan-dhuan ho jayegi sari democracry

jiske jhande hum gadte hai------
then they would realise hum hai to tum ho
hum ghanton dhoop mei khade rehte hai so that tum kursi par baitho
jis din humne hath kheench liya- tumhara kya hoga

ab plz yeh nat kehna- itna hai toh khud lad lo election
sir- mei apna kam -bahut imandari se karti hoon- that is my KRA

agar election mera KRA hota - toh trust me-
Smriti does not know how to fail
i work for success n betterment

[prashantacmet]

Hahaha...So you require facebook propaganda text to substantiate your argument. Nice! No comment from my side!
hahaha...You don't accept it because it is from facebook??..Each and every point is clearly mentioned...can u plz just take the pain to counter these fake points (as per you) with your so called substantiate facts

[prashantacmet]

Indeed your views are on extreme side...Gandhi ji once said an eye for an eye will make this world blind....
and still that non-violent thug called hitler "my dear friend"


any civil society runs on the basis of law...and in civil society no body allow to take the law in their hand...and if you'll take the law in your hand then be ready to get punished as well as per the law.

Did u even have have a fundamental knowledge how these laws take shape? are laws the words from GOD?



as far as battlefield is concern..In war its not necessary that both the side should have been equal in all terms....still if war imposed then both side fight with each other and one side get lose. There can be 100s of reason why any particular side has lost. It's just the matter of analysis than...BUT in any case a death in battlefield and civilian death in any crime can't be compare in any manner.

Wrong decision of 1 man take thousands of lives..that is not even once but twice..first at independence and second in china war..and you without even thinking let him go clean.sorry dear we are not on sync..just keep apart this killing and discuss on gandhi alone

[rekhasmriti]

hahaha....arry tumsay gussa hokar kya karoonga...tum to sis ho meri....


thank u so muCH bhaisab--( wasie i m not tomar )

i kinda agree-
voting is my responsibilty- as a citizen

bas ek har ke darr se- vote na karna is not fair

atleast lado toh sahi

then see waht happens

bhaisab- anyhow- u made my day

thnx a lot








hahaha....arry tumsay gussa hokar kya karoonga...tum to sis ho meri....

par haan jismay tumhara bas nahi chalta...wo cheej palatna chati ho...

or jo cheej tumharay haath mai hia...usko tum karna nahi chati....

election boycott karna etc etc ....this is not in your hand...and don't even expect ki koi aisa din India mai aayga jub saray Indian aisa sochyngay. This country is diverse country with diverse culture and opinion. So sub log ek jaise to klabhi soch hi nahi saktay. So na rhayga baans na bajygi bansuri....na kabhi ek jaise soch hogi or na hi kabhi sub mil kar election ka boycott karngay...

Tumharay haath mai vote ki power hia....har election mai 30-35 candidiate khday hotay hia...jaruri nahi ki tum...har baar BJP, congress ya Choutala ko vote do....baki kisi or ko bhi dai sakti....Important thing is that....you should have to exercise your voting right.

[tarzon]

Before I refute each and every point....Is there any reference given in support of any point?

First come up with references in the support of those points otherwise I'm not interested to refute any mindless rant.


hahaha...You don't accept it because it is from facebook??..Each and every point is clearly mentioned...can u plz just take the pain to counter these fake points (as per you) with your so called substantiate facts

[tarzon]

thank u so muCH bhaisab--( wasie i m not tomar )

hmmmm....but ab to sis bol diya...to you'll remain my sis....:)

anyways always welcome.


hahaha....arry tumsay gussa hokar kya karoonga...tum to sis ho meri....


thank u so muCH bhaisab--( wasie i m not tomar )

i kinda agree-
voting is my responsibilty- as a citizen

bas ek har ke darr se- vote na karna is not fair

atleast lado toh sahi

then see waht happens

bhaisab- anyhow- u made my day

thnx a lot

[tarzon]

and still that non-violent thug called hitler "my dear friend"

Also, read the text of that letter as well...where he suggested to Hitler to shun the violence and stop his brutality for the sake of Humanity.




Did u even have have a fundamental knowledge how these laws take shape? are laws the words from GOD?

I'm such novice.....Please enlighten us how the law take shape?




Wrong decision of 1 man take thousands of lives..that is not even once but twice..first at independence and second in china war..and you without even thinking let him go clean.sorry dear we are not on sync..just keep apart this killing and discuss on gandhi alone

Gandhi died in 1948...China war in 1962...How's it related?
You'll say Gandhi selected the Nehru for the post of PM...and due to Nehru Mistake India lost the war against China...

I would say in 1952 General election held and Indian has voted for congress and Indian has elected the Nehru as PM instead of Gandhi...

[prashantacmet]

Before I refute each and every point....Is there any reference given in support of any point?

First come up with references in the support of those points otherwise I'm not interested to refute any mindless rant.
http://listverse.com/2009/05/26/10-scandalous-or-obscure-facts-about-historical-figures/
http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/articles/fascism/gandhimistake.html
http://www.topix.com/forum/who/mahatma-gandhi/TGMO3QVA620VM2S2E/p14
http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Soc/soc.culture.indian/2009-04/msg00309.html
http://www.imrajeev.com/2009/01/why-godse-killed-gandhi/

Now go and get something!!...jaha aag to dhooma bhi wahi uthe....kuch dhoond ke dikhaye jo sardar patel , bhagat singh, chandrasekhar, subash ku bad taste main dikhata ho..saari negtaive baatein iss gandhi arr nehru hi kyoun hai internet pe.aare inke karam hi maade the!

[prashantacmet]

Also, read the text of that letter as well...where he suggested to Hitler to shun the violence and stop his brutality for the sake of Humanity.

but you did not read the second letter






I'm such novice.....Please enlighten us how the law take shape?

novice hai to thook kyoun bilon lag rya ..jaa pehlam kuch seekh ke aa per bahas maariye







Gandhi died in 1948...China war in 1962...How's it related?
You'll say Gandhi selected the Nehru for the post of PM...and due to Nehru Mistake India lost the war against China...

I would say in 1952 General election held and Indian has voted for congress and Indian has elected the Nehru as PM instead of Gandhi...

I already said we are not on sync..if you try to remember nehru came in picture for the topic "KILLING IS NOT JUSTIFIED BY ANY LAW and DHARMA" I already turn that off..By the way it' time for some homework for you...go get something in support of gandhi

[tarzon]

Learn the meaning of references first before putting any random link.


http://listverse.com/2009/05/26/10-scandalous-or-obscure-facts-about-historical-figures/
http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/articles/fascism/gandhimistake.html
http://www.topix.com/forum/who/mahatma-gandhi/TGMO3QVA620VM2S2E/p14
http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Soc/soc.culture.indian/2009-04/msg00309.html
http://www.imrajeev.com/2009/01/why-godse-killed-gandhi/

Now go and get something!!...jaha aag to dhooma bhi wahi uthe....kuch dhoond ke dikhaye jo sardar patel , bhagat singh, chandrasekhar, subash ku bad taste main dikhata ho..saari negtaive baatein iss gandhi arr nehru hi kyoun hai internet pe.aare inke karam hi maade the!

[tarzon]

but you did not read the second letter

Here is the 2nd letter

http://www.3quarksdaily.com/3quarksdaily/2012/05/gandhis-letter-to-hitler.html

I don't find anything wrong in this letter.




novice hai to thook kyoun bilon lag rya ..jaa pehlam kuch seekh ke aa per bahas maariye

well said..I'm sorry..I was hitting my head with wall :)








I already said we are not on sync..if you try to remember nehru came in picture for the topic "KILLING IS NOT JUSTIFIED BY ANY LAW and DHARMA" I already turn that off..By the way it' time for some homework for you...go get something in support of gandhi

OK

[prashantacmet]

Learn the meaning of references first before putting any random link.
Aachaa....tu nuoey hi kahega majhe byara tha... time machine tai 100 saal peeche jaake gandhi ki film bana ke to laayi ni za mere pe...issa kar naaz-paani le khoob khainch ke arr khaat tod :)

[narvir]

When a person just set one thing in his mind then he only think that he is only right and whatever he was doing is correct in all manner. Watch Crime Patrol on Sony for so many similar kind of people......The same is the case of Nathu Ram Godse.





महोदय,

मुझे लगता है की आप को अपनी ही सलाह याद कराने की जरुरत जिस पर मैंने तो गोर भी किया है जिसमे आप ने कहा है की
"जब एक आदमी पक्की सोच ही बना लेता है की वो जो भी सोच और कर रहा है सिर्फ़ वही हर रस्ते से सही है"
भाई ये नहीं होता हमेशा हम सही नहीं हो सकते,कही न कही हम गलत भी तो हो सकते है इसलिए हमे कोशिश करनी चाहिए सब की बात सुनने की और समझने की,अपनी आखो को बंद नहीं करना चाहए हमे,ताला नहीं लगाना चाहिए अपने दिमाग पे,
सब की बात को खुले दिमाग से सुनना और समझना चाहिए और अगर ईमानदारी से बात सही लगे तो माननी भी चाहिए और उसकी बड़ाई भी करनी चाहिए !
कोई भी आदमी हमेशा सही नहीं हो सकता !
अगर दूसरा आदमी सही है और में गलत हू और मुझे पता चल जाता है इस बात का तब में ये बात मन लेता हू तो कोई इसमें छोटा नहीं हो जाता बल्कि ये हमे बड़ा बनाता है !
जो बाते आप की सही थी हम ने मानी है जैसे आप न कहा अपराध तो अपराध है तो हमने माना है इस बात को.
आशा है आप इस बात को समझने की कोशिश करेंगे और इसे नकारात्मक नहीं लेंगे.
मेरा लिखने का ये मतलब कतई नहीं है की आप गलत थे और जल्दी से मान लो ये बात फटाफट !
अगर सब कुछ ईमानदारी से समझने की कोशिश करने के बाद भी आप को ये लगता है की आप सही है तो आप का अधिकार है की आप अपनी बात पर डटे रहे और कोशिश करते रहे हमेशा अपनी बात समझाने की.

जो बात सही और सच्ची होगी वो जरुर सब को माननी पड़ेगी एक दिन, जरुर जीतेगी कभी न कभी ये मुझे विश्वास है !

मै कोई ज्यादा बड़ा ज्ञानी नहीं हू इसलिए
कुछ जरुरत से ज्यादा ज्ञान देने की कोशिश की हो तो मुझे माफ़ करना भाई.

आड़े हिंदी लिखण में भी किम्म गलतिया हो सके से उन्न्ने बी माफ़ करियो

धन्यवाद्
हाथ जोड़ की राम राम

नरवीर सांगवान

या राम राम पढ़ा या लिखा जिब एक पुराणी बात याद आजा स जो रेडिए प सुन्या करदे पहले,बड़े स्टायल ते कहया करदे
"सब भाइया न राम राम "

[tarzon]

Narvir,

The issue here is not who is right or who is wrong.....
The issue here is we all are forming our opinion on some of the historical personalities...
Some one are forming their opinion be hearing some random statement from here ant there
Some one might be forming their opinion after checking the fact with verifiable sources.

Let me give you an example....

In your facebook these one of your point was

6.गान्धी ने अनेक अवसरों पर छत्रपति शिवाजी, महाराणा प्रताप व गुरू गोविन्द सिंह जी को पथभ्रष्ट देशभक्त कहा।

Now just answer me sincerely of the following question:

Have you really tried to find out did Gandhi really ever given such statement?
If yes, when was such statement given and what is the exact statement?
In which context that statement has given?

I'm 100% sure 99% of people never ever tried to verify such facts...we don't have so much time to read the facts...we just form our opinion as per our nature...

Now let me give you the reference regarding the above mentioned point.

“Mahatma” Gandhi : Shivaji and Rana Pratap were misguided patriots and bandits who killed people. This is quoted by Godse. Is this allegation of Godse true?

Once Gandhi gave an Interview and the interviewer has asked him a question. Godse has referred Misguided patriot quote from this interview. You should have to read the complete question and complete answer and then form your opinion that if the misguided patriot we usually refer on facebook really match with this answer or we're just doing selective reading .

I shall ask you to answer these questions: Was Guru Govind Singh a misguided patriot because he believed in warfare for noble cause? What will you like to say about Washington, Garibaldi and Lenin? What do you think of Kamal Pasha and De Valera? Would you like to call Shivaji and Pratap, well-meaning and sacrificing physicians who prescribed arsenic when they should have given fresh grape-juice? Will you like to call Krishna Europeanized because he believed also in the vinasha of dushkritas?

Gandhi Answer:

This is a hard or rather awkward question. But I dare not shirk it. In the first instance Guru Govind Singh and the others whose names are mentioned did not believe in secret murder. In the second, these patriots knew their work and their men, whereas the modern Indian revolutionary does not know his work. He has not the men, he has not the atmosphere, that the patriots mentioned had. Though my views are derived from my theory of life I have not put them before the nation on that ground. I have based my opposition to the revo- lutionaries on the sole ground of expedience. Therefore, to compare their activities with those of Guru Govind Singh or Washington or Garibaldi or Lenin would be most misleading and dangerous. But by test of the theory of non-violence, I do not hesitate to say that it is highly likely that had I lived as their contemporary and in the respective countries, I would have called everyone of them a mis- guided patriot, even though a successful and brave warrior. As it is, I must not judge them. I disbelieve history so far as details of acts of heroes are concerned. I accept broad facts of history and draw my own lessons or my conduct. I do not want to repeat it in so far as the broad facts contradict the highest laws of life. But I positively refuse to judge men from the scanty material furnished to us by history. De mortuis nil nisi bonum.[4] (http://ltrc.iiit.ac.in/gwiki/index.php/Collected_Works/Volume_31/My_Friend_The_Revolutionary_%289th_April_1925%29#c ite_note-3) Kamal Pasha and De Valera too I cannot judge. But for me, as a believer in non-violence out and out they cannot be my guides in life in so far as their faith in war is concerned. I believe in Krishna perhaps more than the writer. But my Krishna is the Lord of the universe, the creator, preserver and destroyer of us all. He may destroy because He creates. But I must not be drawn into a philosophical or religious argument with my friends. I have not the qualifications for teaching my philosophy of life. I have barely qualifications for practising the philosophy I believe. I am but a poor struggling soul yearning to be wholly good—wholly truthful and wholly non-violent in thought, word and deed, but ever failing to reach the ideal which I know to be true. I admit, and assure my revolutionary friends, it is a painful climb but the pain of it is a positive pleasure for me. Each step upward makes me feel stronger and fit for the next. But all that pain and the pleasure are for me. The revolutionaries are at liberty to reject the whole of my philosophy. To them I merely present my own experiences as co-worker in the same a cause even as I have successfully presented them to the Ali Brothers and many other friends. They can and do applaud whole-heartedly the action of Mustafa Kamal Pasha and possibly De Valera and Lenin. But they realize with me that India is not like Turkey or Ireland or Russia and that revolutionary activity is suicidal at this stage of the country’s life at any rate, if not for all time in a country so vast, so hopelessly divided and with the masses so deeply sunk in pauperism and so fearfully terror-struck.

-Young India, 9-4-1925
http://bapu.sughosh.in/2012/04/as-per-mahatma-gandhi-shivaji-and-rana-pratap-were-misguided-patriots-and-bandits-who-killed-people-this-is-quoted-by-godse-is-this-allegation-of-godse-true/


महोदय,

मुझे लगता है की आप को अपनी ही सलाह याद कराने की जरुरत जिस पर मैंने तो गोर भी किया है जिसमे आप ने कहा है की
"जब एक आदमी पक्की सोच ही बना लेता है की वो जो भी सोच और कर रहा है सिर्फ़ वही हर रस्ते से सही है"
भाई ये नहीं होता हमेशा हम सही नहीं हो सकते,कही न कही हम गलत भी तो हो सकते है इसलिए हमे कोशिश करनी चाहिए सब की बात सुनने की और समझने की,अपनी आखो को बंद नहीं करना चाहए हमे,ताला नहीं लगाना चाहिए अपने दिमाग पे,
सब की बात को खुले दिमाग से सुनना और समझना चाहिए और अगर ईमानदारी से बात सही लगे तो माननी भी चाहिए और उसकी बड़ाई भी करनी चाहिए !
कोई भी आदमी हमेशा सही नहीं हो सकता !
अगर दूसरा आदमी सही है और में गलत हू और मुझे पता चल जाता है इस बात का तब में ये बात मन लेता हू तो कोई इसमें छोटा नहीं हो जाता बल्कि ये हमे बड़ा बनाता है !
जो बाते आप की सही थी हम ने मानी है जैसे आप न कहा अपराध तो अपराध है तो हमने माना है इस बात को.
आशा है आप इस बात को समझने की कोशिश करेंगे और इसे नकारात्मक नहीं लेंगे.
मेरा लिखने का ये मतलब कतई नहीं है की आप गलत थे और जल्दी से मान लो ये बात फटाफट !
अगर सब कुछ ईमानदारी से समझने की कोशिश करने के बाद भी आप को ये लगता है की आप सही है तो आप का अधिकार है की आप अपनी बात पर डटे रहे और कोशिश करते रहे हमेशा अपनी बात समझाने की.

जो बात सही और सच्ची होगी वो जरुर सब को माननी पड़ेगी एक दिन, जरुर जीतेगी कभी न कभी ये मुझे विश्वास है !

मै कोई ज्यादा बड़ा ज्ञानी नहीं हू इसलिए
कुछ जरुरत से ज्यादा ज्ञान देने की कोशिश की हो तो मुझे माफ़ करना भाई.

आड़े हिंदी लिखण में भी किम्म गलतिया हो सके से उन्न्ने बी माफ़ करियो

धन्यवाद्
हाथ जोड़ की राम राम

नरवीर सांगवान

या राम राम पढ़ा या लिखा जिब एक पुराणी बात याद आजा स जो रेडिए प सुन्या करदे पहले,बड़े स्टायल ते कहया करदे
"सब भाइया न राम राम "

[prashantacmet]

Narvir,

The issue here is not who is right or who is wrong.....
The issue here is we all are forming our opinion on some of the historical personalities...
Some one are forming their opinion be hearing some random statement from here ant there
Some one might be forming their opinion after checking the fact with verifiable sources.

Let me give you an example....

In your facebook these one of your point was

6.गान्धी ने अनेक अवसरों पर छत्रपति शिवाजी, महाराणा प्रताप व गुरू गोविन्द सिंह जी को पथभ्रष्ट देशभक्त कहा।

Now just answer me sincerely of the following question:

Have you really tried to find out did Gandhi really ever given such statement?
If yes, when was such statement given and what is the exact statement?
In which context that statement has given?

I'm 100% sure 99% of people never ever tried to verify such facts...we don't have so much time to read the facts...we just form our opinion as per our nature...

Now let me give you the reference regarding the above mentioned point.

“Mahatma” Gandhi : Shivaji and Rana Pratap were misguided patriots and bandits who killed people. This is quoted by Godse. Is this allegation of Godse true?

Once Gandhi gave an Interview and the interviewer has asked him a question. Godse has referred Misguided patriot quote from this interview. You should have to read the complete question and complete answer and then form your opinion that if the misguided patriot we usually refer on facebook really match with this answer or we're just doing selective reading .

I shall ask you to answer these questions: Was Guru Govind Singh a misguided patriot because he believed in warfare for noble cause? What will you like to say about Washington, Garibaldi and Lenin? What do you think of Kamal Pasha and De Valera? Would you like to call Shivaji and Pratap, well-meaning and sacrificing physicians who prescribed arsenic when they should have given fresh grape-juice? Will you like to call Krishna Europeanized because he believed also in the vinasha of dushkritas?

Gandhi Answer:

This is a hard or rather awkward question. But I dare not shirk it. In the first instance Guru Govind Singh and the others whose names are mentioned did not believe in secret murder. In the second, these patriots knew their work and their men, whereas the modern Indian revolutionary does not know his work. He has not the men, he has not the atmosphere, that the patriots mentioned had. Though my views are derived from my theory of life I have not put them before the nation on that ground. I have based my opposition to the revo- lutionaries on the sole ground of expedience. Therefore, to compare their activities with those of Guru Govind Singh or Washington or Garibaldi or Lenin would be most misleading and dangerous. But by test of the theory of non-violence, I do not hesitate to say that it is highly likely that had I lived as their contemporary and in the respective countries, I would have called everyone of them a mis- guided patriot, even though a successful and brave warrior. As it is, I must not judge them. I disbelieve history so far as details of acts of heroes are concerned. I accept broad facts of history and draw my own lessons or my conduct. I do not want to repeat it in so far as the broad facts contradict the highest laws of life. But I positively refuse to judge men from the scanty material furnished to us by history. De mortuis nil nisi bonum.[4] (http://ltrc.iiit.ac.in/gwiki/index.php/Collected_Works/Volume_31/My_Friend_The_Revolutionary_%289th_April_1925%29#c ite_note-3) Kamal Pasha and De Valera too I cannot judge. But for me, as a believer in non-violence out and out they cannot be my guides in life in so far as their faith in war is concerned. I believe in Krishna perhaps more than the writer. But my Krishna is the Lord of the universe, the creator, preserver and destroyer of us all. He may destroy because He creates. But I must not be drawn into a philosophical or religious argument with my friends. I have not the qualifications for teaching my philosophy of life. I have barely qualifications for practising the philosophy I believe. I am but a poor struggling soul yearning to be wholly good—wholly truthful and wholly non-violent in thought, word and deed, but ever failing to reach the ideal which I know to be true. I admit, and assure my revolutionary friends, it is a painful climb but the pain of it is a positive pleasure for me. Each step upward makes me feel stronger and fit for the next. But all that pain and the pleasure are for me. The revolutionaries are at liberty to reject the whole of my philosophy. To them I merely present my own experiences as co-worker in the same a cause even as I have successfully presented them to the Ali Brothers and many other friends. They can and do applaud whole-heartedly the action of Mustafa Kamal Pasha and possibly De Valera and Lenin. But they realize with me that India is not like Turkey or Ireland or Russia and that revolutionary activity is suicidal at this stage of the country’s life at any rate, if not for all time in a country so vast, so hopelessly divided and with the masses so deeply sunk in pauperism and so fearfully terror-struck.

-Young India, 9-4-1925
http://bapu.sughosh.in/2012/04/as-per-mahatma-gandhi-shivaji-and-rana-pratap-were-misguided-patriots-and-bandits-who-killed-people-this-is-quoted-by-godse-is-this-allegation-of-godse-true/

Please read another highlighted part too...did gandhi not say them misguided youth on the test on non-violence...and I say gandhi a coward on the test of patriotism..how am I wrong..?.....and how the face book point was false?

[tarzon]

Read the one next sentence as well...."As it is, I must not judge them."

He was not forcing his opinion on any one else.


Please read another highlighted part too...did gandhi not say them misguided youth on the test on non-violence...and I say gandhi a coward on the test of patriotism..how am I wrong..?.....and how the face book point was false?

[prashantacmet]

Read the one next sentence as well...."As it is, I must not judge them."

He was not forcing his opinion on any one else.
so what does it convey?.....gandhi was playing around the words or what?

[narvir]

Narvir,

The issue here is not who is right or who is wrong.....
The issue here is we all are forming our opinion on some of the historical personalities...
Some one are forming their opinion be hearing some random statement from here ant there
Some one might be forming their opinion after checking the fact with verifiable sources.

Let me give you an example....

In your facebook these one of your point was

6.गान्धी ने अनेक अवसरों पर छत्रपति शिवाजी, महाराणा प्रताप व गुरू गोविन्द सिंह जी को पथभ्रष्ट देशभक्त कहा।

Now just answer me sincerely of the following question:

Have you really tried to find out did Gandhi really ever given such statement?
If yes, when was such statement given and what is the exact statement?
In which context that statement has given?

I'm 100% sure 99% of people never ever tried to verify such facts...we don't have so much time to read the facts...we just form our opinion as per our nature...

Now let me give you the reference regarding the above mentioned point.

“Mahatma” Gandhi : Shivaji and Rana Pratap were misguided patriots and bandits who killed people. This is quoted by Godse. Is this allegation of Godse true?

Once Gandhi gave an Interview and the interviewer has asked him a question. Godse has referred Misguided patriot quote from this interview. You should have to read the complete question and complete answer and then form your opinion that if the misguided patriot we usually refer on facebook really match with this answer or we're just doing selective reading .

I shall ask you to answer these questions: Was Guru Govind Singh a misguided patriot because he believed in warfare for noble cause? What will you like to say about Washington, Garibaldi and Lenin? What do you think of Kamal Pasha and De Valera? Would you like to call Shivaji and Pratap, well-meaning and sacrificing physicians who prescribed arsenic when they should have given fresh grape-juice? Will you like to call Krishna Europeanized because he believed also in the vinasha of dushkritas?

Gandhi Answer:

This is a hard or rather awkward question. But I dare not shirk it. In the first instance Guru Govind Singh and the others whose names are mentioned did not believe in secret murder. In the second, these patriots knew their work and their men, whereas the modern Indian revolutionary does not know his work. He has not the men, he has not the atmosphere, that the patriots mentioned had. Though my views are derived from my theory of life I have not put them before the nation on that ground. I have based my opposition to the revo- lutionaries on the sole ground of expedience. Therefore, to compare their activities with those of Guru Govind Singh or Washington or Garibaldi or Lenin would be most misleading and dangerous. But by test of the theory of non-violence, I do not hesitate to say that it is highly likely that had I lived as their contemporary and in the respective countries, I would have called everyone of them a mis- guided patriot, even though a successful and brave warrior. As it is, I must not judge them. I disbelieve history so far as details of acts of heroes are concerned. I accept broad facts of history and draw my own lessons or my conduct. I do not want to repeat it in so far as the broad facts contradict the highest laws of life. But I positively refuse to judge men from the scanty material furnished to us by history. De mortuis nil nisi bonum.[4] (http://ltrc.iiit.ac.in/gwiki/index.php/Collected_Works/Volume_31/My_Friend_The_Revolutionary_%289th_April_1925%29#c ite_note-3) Kamal Pasha and De Valera too I cannot judge. But for me, as a believer in non-violence out and out they cannot be my guides in life in so far as their faith in war is concerned. I believe in Krishna perhaps more than the writer. But my Krishna is the Lord of the universe, the creator, preserver and destroyer of us all. He may destroy because He creates. But I must not be drawn into a philosophical or religious argument with my friends. I have not the qualifications for teaching my philosophy of life. I have barely qualifications for practising the philosophy I believe. I am but a poor struggling soul yearning to be wholly good—wholly truthful and wholly non-violent in thought, word and deed, but ever failing to reach the ideal which I know to be true. I admit, and assure my revolutionary friends, it is a painful climb but the pain of it is a positive pleasure for me. Each step upward makes me feel stronger and fit for the next. But all that pain and the pleasure are for me. The revolutionaries are at liberty to reject the whole of my philosophy. To them I merely present my own experiences as co-worker in the same a cause even as I have successfully presented them to the Ali Brothers and many other friends. They can and do applaud whole-heartedly the action of Mustafa Kamal Pasha and possibly De Valera and Lenin. But they realize with me that India is not like Turkey or Ireland or Russia and that revolutionary activity is suicidal at this stage of the country’s life at any rate, if not for all time in a country so vast, so hopelessly divided and with the masses so deeply sunk in pauperism and so fearfully terror-struck.

-Young India, 9-4-1925
http://bapu.sughosh.in/2012/04/as-per-mahatma-gandhi-shivaji-and-rana-pratap-were-misguided-patriots-and-bandits-who-killed-people-this-is-quoted-by-godse-is-this-allegation-of-godse-true/


Sir,

That is why i m saying u that why r you closing ur eyes here.

If u carefully read it from ur own source.
you can find all ur answers from there that required by you.

Now that you have made them from facebook or elsewhere,it does not matter brother.

If you can try to change the mind & way once,everything will be clear.

Thanks

With regards

[tarzon]

To Narveer and Prshant

Gandhi was very clear in his thought. You might have selective reading problem.

Gandhi gave this answer in the context of revolutionary and their comparison with historical personalities like Guru Govind Singh or Washington or Garibaldi or Lenin and principle of non-violence.

Now re-read the paragraph again

“This is a hard or rather awkward question. But I dare not shirk it. In the first instance Guru Govind Singh and the others whose names are mentioned did not believe in secret murder. In the second, these patriots knew their work and their men, whereas the modern Indian revolutionary does not know his work. He has not the men, he has not the atmosphere, that the patriots mentioned had. Though my views are derived from my theory of life I have not put them before the nation on that ground. I have based my opposition to the revo- lutionaries on the sole ground of expedience. Therefore, to compare their activities with those of Guru Govind Singh or Washington or Garibaldi or Lenin would be most misleading and dangerous. But by test of the theory of non-violence, I do not hesitate to say that it is highly likely that had I lived as their contemporary and in the respective countries, I would have called everyone of them a mis- guided patriot, even though a successful and brave warrior. As it is, I must not judge them. I disbelieve history so far as details of acts of heroes are concerned. I accept broad facts of history and draw my own lessons or my conduct. I do not want to repeat it in so far as the broad facts contradict the highest laws of life. But I positively refuse to judge men from the scanty material furnished to us by history. “

Now compare popular facebook point with the highlighted part
Facebook point:

गान्धी ने अनेक अवसरों पर छत्रपति शिवाजी, महाराणा प्रताप व गुरू गोविन्द सिंह जी को पथभ्रष्ट देशभक्त कहा।

Now In this point its mentioned that Gandhi has speak on several occasion that Shivaji, Maharana Pratap and Guru Govind singh were mis- guided patriot.

Gandhi has never speak on several occasion only in this interview Gandhi has used the term “mis- guided patriot”

So the first prooganda is busted.

Now 2ndly in your facebook point it mentioned the name of Shivaji and Maharana Pratap. Gandhi not even used the name of Shivaji and Maharana Pratap in his reply any where.

So this prooganda is also busted.

Lastly Gandhi said I do not hesitate to say that it is highly likely that had I lived as their contemporary and in the respective countries, I would have called everyone of them a mis- guided patriot, even though a successful and brave warrior.

This statement is not for any particular personality like Shivaji, Maharana Pratap and Guru Govind singh. So again this propaganda that Gandhi was addressing the Shivaji, Maharana Pratap and Guru Govind singh as misguided patriot busted.

He was simply comparing everyone from any part of the world who has chose the violence as a mean with his non-violence principle. And I think just like any other person have the right to chose a path for themselves Gandhi do have a right to chose a path for himself . Non-violence is not rocket science which was discover by Gandhi. Gandhi has just practiced the teaching of Non-Violence which was pre-excited in India. Mahatma Budh, Bhagwan Mahavir both these great legend born in India and practice the Non Violence and propagated throughout India and abroad. Due to influence of Mahatma Buddha the Great Ashoka has shun the violence as per the Indian History. As per Mahatma Budh, Bhagwan Mahavir as well all the king who were participating in the war was doing wrong and they should have to shun the violence.

I think I’ve very clearly expressed my thoughts.

Everyone have the right to make their own interpretation, but interpret only after reading the complete answer and not just by reading the selective words.

Thanks and Regards

[rekhasmriti]

bilkul bhaisab !

it would be an honor bhai



thank u so muCH bhaisab--( wasie i m not tomar )

hmmmm....but ab to sis bol diya...to you'll remain my sis....:)

anyways always welcome.

[rekhasmriti]

bros-

i guess kal bahut kuch hua- yahan

i m so tied up with some report n presentation

catch u guys later