View Full Version : किसान और भारत रत्न सम्मान:
phoolkumar
October 26th, 2012, 04:14 PM
किसी किसान को आज तक भारत रत्न सम्मान क्यों नहीं मिला?:
Dear friends, I am starting this thread, because 99% of us hail from farming community either directly or indirectly in a way like our ancestors have been from these classes and we still being professionals of other fields are known and classified only as descendents of farming communities (which of course is a matter of pride).
My question for debate is that:
1) When one just being an actor, musician, dramatist can receive or get recommended for four of the highest civilian awards of India which are "Bharat Ratna", "Bharat Vibhushan", "Bharat Bhushan" and "Padam Sree", then why not a farmer seen even recommended for any of these?
2) When a politician, socialist, bureacrate, scientist, sportman and/or any other so possible domain or field can be eligible for these awards then why can't a farmer?
3) Is there any criteria written in any clause of constitution or clauses made for selecting/recommending people for these awards for farmers?
4) If it is written then why is so that til date no farmer, even the leaders despite being switched to politics weren't got even a recommendation (forget about getting such recommendation by staying just a farmer).?
5) If to design such a draft, then what criteria should be designed?
6) Though we have many "Padam Srees" from the field of sports alongwith being hailing from farming sector, but question is on how many of us are in upper three catergories of these awards? I don't remember or fail to recall anyone (not a single farmer after being just farmer)?
7) If a gitarist/singer can make it to this category by just sticking to one field then what about a farmer field, who takes birth in soil, work in soil, live in soil and at the end die in soil?
Why it is of importance:
1) If our people would get any of these awards, we would feel proudy and motivated.
2) Recognition and award system is all to boost up the moral spirit and ethics, then why not our moral should also be recommended.
3) It will incease the competition of life, betterment and quality thinking among us.
So what if we are in millions, criteria can still be defined for it, no?
DrRajpalSingh
November 12th, 2012, 04:09 PM
किसी किसान को आज तक भारत रत्न सम्मान क्यों नहीं मिला?:
Dear friends, I am starting this thread, because 99% of us hail from farming community either directly or indirectly in a way like our ancestors have been from these classes and we still being professionals of other fields are known and classified only as descendents of farming communities (which of course is a matter of pride).
My question for debate is that:
1) When one just being an actor, musician, dramatist can receive or get recommended for four of the highest civilian awards of India which are "Bharat Ratna", "Bharat Vibhushan", "Bharat Bhushan" and "Padam Sree", then why not a farmer seen even recommended for any of these?
2) When a politician, socialist, bureacrate, scientist, sportman and/or any other so possible domain or field can be eligible for these awards then why can't a farmer?
3) Is there any criteria written in any clause of constitution or clauses made for selecting/recommending people for these awards for farmers?
4) If it is written then why is so that til date no farmer, even the leaders despite being switched to politics weren't got even a recommendation (forget about getting such recommendation by staying just a farmer).?
5) If to design such a draft, then what criteria should be designed?
6) Though we have many "Padam Srees" from the field of sports alongwith being hailing from farming sector, but question is on how many of us are in upper three catergories of these awards? I don't remember or fail to recall anyone (not a single farmer after being just farmer)?
7) If a gitarist/singer can make it to this category by just sticking to one field then what about a farmer field, who takes birth in soil, work in soil, live in soil and at the end die in soil?
Why it is of importance:
1) If our people would get any of these awards, we would feel proudy and motivated.
2) Recognition and award system is all to boost up the moral spirit and ethics, then why not our moral should also be recommended.
3) It will incease the competition of life, betterment and quality thinking among us.
So what if we are in millions, criteria can still be defined for it, no?
Dr. Rajendra Prasad, the First President of India, was the recipient of the Bharat Ratana and a person from farming community.
sivach
November 21st, 2012, 05:06 PM
Dr. Rajendra Prasad, the First President of India, was the recipient of the Bharat Ratana and a person from farming community.
डा . राजेंद्र प्रसाद को भारत रत्न किसान होने की वजह से नहीं मिला सिर्फ किसान के यहाँ जन्म लेने से खेती और बागवानी से जुड़े लोगो की नुमायंदी नहीं होती.
खेती और बागवानी करने वाले व्यक्तियों में भी कई ऐसे होगे जिन्होंने काफी सराहनीय काम किया है। बागवानी से जुड़े मलीहाबाद के हाजी कलीमुल्लाह खान ने काफी बेहतरीन काम किया है और उनको पदमश्री से नवाजा गया है। देश में और भी कई लोग होंगे जिन्हें ढूंढने की जरुरत है और उनको प्रोह्त्साहित किया जाये
SALURAM
November 28th, 2012, 09:03 AM
देश 70% किसान होने के बावजुद देश मे किसान आयोग
नही है किसानो को लुटने के लिये भुमि अधिग्रहण का कानुन
अग्रेजों ने 100 वर्षो पुर्व बनाया था सरकार
किसानो को विदेशी कम्पनीयो से बीज खरीदने के लिय मजबुर
कर रही है पिछले 10 वर्षो मे3 लाख किसान
आत्महत्या कर चुके हैं सरकार आइटीआइ कालेजो के बहाने
किसानो के बच्चो को खेती छोडने को मजबुर कर रही है
अमेरीकी हितो के लिये सरकार ने किसानो को के wto के
हाथो बेच दिया है सरकार किसानो की अनदेखी करके बजट
नेताओ व सरकारी कमचारीयों के वेतन ओर
बडी कम्पनीयो पर खर्च कर रही है सरकार
किसानो को प्रतिबन्धित कीटनाशक व रसायनो को खरीदने
के लिये मजबुर कर रही है किसान के परीवार की ओसतन
आय 2000 है ये अत्याचार नही है तो फिर क्या है किसान
अगर बर्बाद हुये तो भारत हमेषा के लिये डुब
जायेगा अभी भी समय है इनको बचा लो किसानो के 50बच्चे
कुपोशण का शिकार हैं !
जय किसान
phoolkumar
November 30th, 2012, 08:26 PM
Doctor Rajpal Ji,
Pahle to ye padhiye ki Dr. Rajendra Parasad ke parents kaun they: "[Rajendra Prasad was a Kayastha (http://www.jatland.com/wiki/Kayastha) and born in Zeradei, in the Siwan district of Bihar near Chappra (http://www.jatland.com/wiki/Chappra). His father Mahadev Sahai, was a scholar of both the Persian (http://www.jatland.com/wiki/Persian_language) and Sanskrit (http://www.jatland.com/wiki/Sanskrit)languages (http://www.jatland.com/wiki/Language), while his mother, Kamleshwari Devi, was a religious woman who would tell stories from the Ramayana to her son.[2] (http://www.jatland.com/forums/#cite_note-2)"
Ab
Ab ye bataiye, ki naa to inki maa ka background agri tha na father ka to ye farming community se kaise hue?
Doosri baat desh mein aaj tak around 50 "Bharat Ratan" bant chuke hain, so ek pal ko aapki baat maan bhi lo to 50 mein 1 farmer ko Bharat Ratan mila, uspe bhi reasons add kiye jayenge ki wo president tha, sirf ek kisaan hota to usko na milta......moreover around 50% population of country farmer hai, yaani dekho to aajtak 50% "Bharat Ratan" awardi farmers aane chahiye they, lekin aaye kitne sirf 2% (wo bhi sirf aap kah rahe ho to maan ke kaha hai wrana to 0%) ?
Ha sharing ke point of view se aapne achchi cheej share kari, but I doubt (because I have read about him since childhood and confident that he never plough a field in his life as profession) if Dr. Prasad was a farmer? Could you please support your fact here?
QUOTE=DrRajpalSingh;324808]Dr. Rajendra Prasad, the First President of India, was the recipient of the Bharat Ratana and a person from farming community.[/QUOTE]
SALURAM
December 22nd, 2012, 09:33 PM
shayad vo log jo congressi hain mujh par hasne lage lekin ek maang rakh raha hoon main iss JL ke maadhyam se bharat ratna ka purushkaar ishwarsinghji kundu ko diya jaya chahiye.. social media ke maadhyam se ek abhiyaan cheda jaye...
DrRajpalSingh
December 22nd, 2012, 11:58 PM
Doctor Rajpal Ji,
Pahle to ye padhiye ki Dr. Rajendra Parasad ke parents kaun they: "[Rajendra Prasad was a Kayastha (http://www.jatland.com/wiki/Kayastha) and born in Zeradei, in the Siwan district of Bihar near Chappra (http://www.jatland.com/wiki/Chappra). His father Mahadev Sahai, was a scholar of both the Persian (http://www.jatland.com/wiki/Persian_language) and Sanskrit (http://www.jatland.com/wiki/Sanskrit)languages (http://www.jatland.com/wiki/Language), while his mother, Kamleshwari Devi, was a religious woman who would tell stories from the Ramayana to her son.[2] (http://www.jatland.com/forums/#cite_note-2)"
Ab
Ab ye bataiye, ki naa to inki maa ka background agri tha na father ka to ye farming community se kaise hue?
Doosri baat desh mein aaj tak around 50 "Bharat Ratan" bant chuke hain, so ek pal ko aapki baat maan bhi lo to 50 mein 1 farmer ko Bharat Ratan mila, uspe bhi reasons add kiye jayenge ki wo president tha, sirf ek kisaan hota to usko na milta......moreover around 50% population of country farmer hai, yaani dekho to aajtak 50% "Bharat Ratan" awardi farmers aane chahiye they, lekin aaye kitne sirf 2% (wo bhi sirf aap kah rahe ho to maan ke kaha hai wrana to 0%) ?
Ha sharing ke point of view se aapne achchi cheej share kari, but I doubt (because I have read about him since childhood and confident that he never plough a field in his life as profession) if Dr. Prasad was a farmer? Could you please support your fact here?
QUOTE=DrRajpalSingh;324808]Dr. Rajendra Prasad, the First President of India, was the recipient of the Bharat Ratana and a person from farming community.[/QUOTE]
Friend,
Earlier Bharat Ratana awardee (Dr. Rajender Prasad) was from rural area whom I by mistake quoted as peasant, but he was a leader of the agitating farmers from Bihar; hence regrets for mistaken identity Phulkumaar ji.
Here is another Bhaarat Ratna awardee from Purely peasant class in the form of Late Dy.Prime minister, and Iron man, Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel (October 31, 1875 - December 15, 1950), who was born in Nadiad. His father Jhaverbhai Patel was a simple farmer and mother Laad Bai was a simple lady. From his childhood itself, Patel was a very hard-working individual. He used to help his father in farming and studied in a school at N. K. High school, Petlade, he was born as a middle child in a family of impoverished peasant proprietors.
Thanks
DrRajpalSingh
December 23rd, 2012, 12:02 AM
डा . राजेंद्र प्रसाद को भारत रत्न किसान होने की वजह से नहीं मिला सिर्फ किसान के यहाँ जन्म लेने से खेती और बागवानी से जुड़े लोगो की नुमायंदी नहीं होती.
खेती और बागवानी करने वाले व्यक्तियों में भी कई ऐसे होगे जिन्होंने काफी सराहनीय काम किया है। बागवानी से जुड़े मलीहाबाद के हाजी कलीमुल्लाह खान ने काफी बेहतरीन काम किया है और उनको पदमश्री से नवाजा गया है। देश में और भी कई लोग होंगे जिन्हें ढूंढने की जरुरत है और उनको प्रोह्त्साहित किया जाये
Aapke nek vicharon kee saflta ke liye shubhkamnayen.
DrRajpalSingh
December 23rd, 2012, 12:05 AM
shayad vo log jo congressi hain mujh par hasne lage lekin ek maang rakh raha hoon main iss JL ke maadhyam se bharat ratna ka purushkaar ishwarsinghji kundu ko diya jaya chahiye.. social media ke maadhyam se ek abhiyaan cheda jaye...
Saluramji Aap lage raho hum aapke saath hain, ek aur bharat rattan to lekar hi rahenge !
Shri Ishwar Singh Kundu ji ki uplabadhiyon se awagat krawaane ka kast kijyaga !
rekhasmriti
December 23rd, 2012, 12:39 AM
Dear Sir ,
May be below mentioned link would assist :
http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?35248-Innovation-in-Agriculture-Success-Story
Saluramji Aap lage raho hum aapke saath hain, ek aur bharat rattan to lekar hi rahenge !
Shri Ishwar Singh Kundu ji ki uplabadhiyon se awagat krawaane ka kast kijyaga !
DrRajpalSingh
December 23rd, 2012, 01:07 AM
Dear Sir ,
May be below mentioned link would assist :
http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?35248-Innovation-in-Agriculture-Success-Story
Thanks for the information on 26 innovators in the field of Agriculture related activities. Congratulations to all of them. The Government should definitely encourage them by recognising their services to the nation ! Bharat Ratana is not the only prize, there are so many which could also be considered to be bestowed on these haard wroking people. We are proud of their innovations.
phoolkumar
January 26th, 2013, 05:01 AM
Continuing on my research on this topic, I came across an article on times of India, which states the categories for the nominees for any kind of top 4 civilian awards of Indias as follows:
"On the categories, the official said, the awards are given in the field of art, social work, public affairs, science and engineering, trade and industry, medicine, literature and education, sports and human rights, wild life protection, conservation and propagation of Indian culture."
Reference: http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2011-08-07/mumbai/29861146_1_padma-awards-padma-shri-padma-bhushan
It clears one thing at least that as of the day and til date farmers and famring community exceptionals and extra-ordinary performers were never considered or deserved for these awards...
It is neither covered in any of Indian Honours System schemes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_honours_system
Now the questions comes that why it was deprived for farmers and if to get them included then what should be debated and how it to be debated.
phoolkumar
January 26th, 2013, 05:13 AM
The official and detailed list of nomination fields directly from Goverment of India website:
Illustrative list of fields
1. Art (includes Music, Painting, Sculpture, Photography, Cinema,Theatre etc.)
2. Social work (includes social service, charitable Service, contributionin community Projects etc.)
3. Public Affairs (includes Law, Public Life, Politics, etc.)
4. Science & Engineering (includes Space Engineering, NuclearScience, Information Technology, Research & Development inScience & its allied subjects etc.,)
5. Trade & Industry (includes Banking, Economic Activities,Management, Promotion of Tourism, Business etc.)
6. Medicine (includes medical research, distinction/specialization inAyurveda, Homeopathy, Sidha, Allopathy, Naturopathy etc.)
7. Literature & Education (includes Journalism, Teaching, Bookcomposing, Literature, Poetry, promotion of education, promotion ofliteracy, Education Reforms etc.)
8. Civil Service (includes distinction/excellence in administration etc.by Government Servants)
9. Sports (including popular sports, Athletics, Adventure,Mountaineering, promotion of sports, Yoga etc.)
10. Others (fields not covered above and may include propagation ofIndian Culture, protection of Human Rights, Wild Life protection
/conservation etc.)
Source: http://www.tn.gov.in/documents/padma_awards_2013.pdf
For instance if to take that soldiers are covered in category of variou military awards then who is left only? The farmers but until when???
phoolkumar
January 29th, 2013, 04:21 PM
What a democracy is ours?....
Where no civil honor/award for a farmer.....
If to contemplate the list for Indian Civil Honor and Awards (starting from Bharat Ratan to Padmsee to any other equivalent/parallel/indicative award), it proves to be the source of motivation for individuals to prove their talent in their respective fields of work and expertise except for a FARMER. This seems like grading of the fate of a farmer as jeopardized as of a woman, where on one hand we proclaim woman as a "DEVI-Goddess" but on other hand decline her being as a human and so is going on with farmer that we proclaim them as "ANNDATA - God of grain" but same time decline their being as a human. And the opposite pole truth says (through so called socialite NGOs) as if farming community is the only left void of social reforms. After all when will a farmer be considered as human? Why such an important class is yet deprived of these national civil honors? What kind of democracy is ours?
And if one says that it is of no logic as it doesn’t require any kind of specific training or course because more than 99% farmers get it in their heritance and doesn’t require special efforts to specialize or show extra courage in learning or doing this profession. Then on such response I would say that then why these honors for a businessman, why for a singer/actor and why for a author, writer and philosopher? Because if I take birth to a shopkeeper, it is understood and most probably that most of my childhood, I would spend sitting with my father in shops and spend it in learning/observing the accounts and business, or if I am born to a priest/pandit chances are by default that I would become a writer or philosopher or if I am born to a Mirashi/actor family then chances are by inheritance that I would inherit all skills and tactics of a singer/actor by birth?
So what make others so specific that they should be honored with Bharat Ratan and Padam Shree Award but a farmer would not be?
SALURAM
January 30th, 2013, 09:24 AM
Yeh sarkar to andhi hain yeh kya jane kisko award dena hain... iske yuvraaj rahul gandhi kisanon ke baare me nahin jaante hain... yeh adhnangi hokar thumka lagane wali filmi heroin ko hi award dena jamte hain... Tau devilal, ch. charansingh jaise logon ko bharatratan award dene ki jaroorat hain...
Samarkadian
January 30th, 2013, 10:58 AM
I think Agriculture comes under Science and Engineering.
Have a look -1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._S._Swaminathan
2. http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?34469-Scientist-Jat-Jisne-Bharat-Ki-Bhukh-Mitayi-Father-of-Indian-Wheat-research
phoolkumar
January 30th, 2013, 12:15 PM
Bhai that is fine but my two fold points:
1) On the basis of links given by you:
a) Maine aapka Ch. Dhanpat Singh Hooda Ji wala poora article padha (especially Honor and Achievements) but kahin bhi Bharat Ratan to chhodiye unko 4th civil honor "Padam Shree" tak nahin diya gaya.....
b) Swaminathan ji wala article padh liya tha maine but unko bhi ye prize "Agriculture ki category se nahin balki Science and Technology" se mila
2) App Bharat Ratan and 3 other Padam Awards ke eligibity criteria and categories padhiye (ooper isi thread ki post no 13): ismen jaise "Trade and Industry", "Sports", "Medicine", "Literature" ki categories along with "Science and Technology" de rakhi hain....aur aap bhi jaante ho ki more than 70% Science and Technology "Trade and Industry" mein hoti hai to fir "Trade and Industry" ek alag se criteria banaane ki kyaa jaroorat aur agar jaroorat hai to fir "Agriculture" ke liye kyon nahin.....[
aur agar ek aam-aamdi ki najar se is list pe najar daudaun to ismen kahin bhi kisi ke aage ye mention nahin ki is bande ko ya award agriculture mein kaam karne se mila....(see this list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padma_Vibhushan) aur aise hi doosre awards ki dekh lijiye......
it shows ki due respect nahin hai...clear cut recogniition nahin hai agriculture ki jaise ooper diye categories ki hain.......
Doctor Rajpal ji: mana Sardar Patel they ek farmer ke bete but unko agriculture mein innovation ya work ke liye Bharat Ratna nahin mila tha unko politics and independence movement ke liye mila tha (Kheda ke kisaanon ki ladai jaroor ladi thi unhonen, lekin agar wo akele Kheda ke kisaanon ki ladai tak simit rahte to unko Bharat Ratan nahin milta)...wo unko mila tha 562 riyaston ko ek jhande tale la khada karne ke liye
also main Bharat Ratan ki list dekh raha tha BQUOTE=Samarkadian;331222]I think Agriculture comes under Science and Engineering.
Have a look -1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._S._Swaminathan
2. http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?34469-Scientist-Jat-Jisne-Bharat-Ki-Bhukh-Mitayi-Father-of-Indian-Wheat-research[/QUOTE]
bharti
January 30th, 2013, 12:57 PM
Deenbandhu Rehbar-i-Azam Sir Choudhary Chhotu Ram has not been awarded Bharat Ratna or any other such award.
Does it make any difference to me in my respect towards him? NO.
While some people are refusing to accept these awards, why are we asking for same? Please see:
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-01-27/chennai/36576857_1_padma-bhushan-s-janaki-award
Samarkadian
January 30th, 2013, 02:18 PM
Bhai that is fine but my two fold points:
1) On the basis of links given by you:
a) Maine aapka Ch. Dhanpat Singh Hooda Ji wala poora article padha (especially Honor and Achievements) but kahin bhi Bharat Ratan to chhodiye unko 4th civil honor "Padam Shree" tak nahin diya gaya.....
b) Swaminathan ji wala article padh liya tha maine but unko bhi ye prize "Agriculture ki category se nahin balki Science and Technology" se mila
2) App Bharat Ratan and 3 other Padam Awards ke eligibity criteria and categories padhiye (ooper isi thread ki post no 13): ismen jaise "Trade and Industry", "Sports", "Medicine", "Literature" ki categories along with "Science and Technology" de rakhi hain....aur aap bhi jaante ho ki more than 70% Science and Technology "Trade and Industry" mein hoti hai to fir "Trade and Industry" ek alag se criteria banaane ki kyaa jaroorat aur agar jaroorat hai to fir "Agriculture" ke liye kyon nahin.....[
aur agar ek aam-aamdi ki najar se is list pe najar daudaun to ismen kahin bhi kisi ke aage ye mention nahin ki is bande ko ya award agriculture mein kaam karne se mila....(see this list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padma_Vibhushan) aur aise hi doosre awards ki dekh lijiye......
it shows ki due respect nahin hai...clear cut recogniition nahin hai agriculture ki jaise ooper diye categories ki hain.......
Doctor Rajpal ji: mana Sardar Patel they ek farmer ke bete but unko agriculture mein innovation ya work ke liye Bharat Ratna nahin mila tha unko politics and independence movement ke liye mila tha (Kheda ke kisaanon ki ladai jaroor ladi thi unhonen, lekin agar wo akele Kheda ke kisaanon ki ladai tak simit rahte to unko Bharat Ratan nahin milta)...wo unko mila tha 562 riyaston ko ek jhande tale la khada karne ke liye
also main Bharat Ratan ki list dekh raha tha BQUOTE=Samarkadian;331222]I think Agriculture comes under Science and Engineering.
Have a look -1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._S._Swaminathan
2. http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?34469-Scientist-Jat-Jisne-Bharat-Ki-Bhukh-Mitayi-Father-of-Indian-Wheat-research
I am sure you wanted to write Dr Ramdhan Hooda.
What I meant was that agriculture as a branch might come under science or science n engineering/technology.
I think you shall have a look at this as well - This guy has drafted, envisioned green revolution and food independence and has been awarded Bharat Ratna in 1998. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chidambaram_Subramaniam
http://www.frontlineonnet.com/fl1505/15051130.htm
phoolkumar
January 30th, 2013, 03:14 PM
Yes you are right name mistake, I meant to "Dr. Ramdhan Hooda" there.
Bhai ismen bhi 3-4 points remaining hain:
1) Is list mein farming community se sirf 1 ya 2 hi names hain, jabki population ke proportion and size of agri-cultural community ke proportion mein dekho to ye kuchh bhi nahin....I think 70% rural population mein 50% to farming community hogi hi.....so 41 awards mein 1-2 awards ka proportion dekhiye? And its just not the case of Bharat Ranta Awards, you can see the same trend for all 3 Padam Award categories too "Padam Vibhushan", "Padam Bhushan" and "Padam Shree".
2) Awards ke liye eligibility criteria list dekhiye aap ek baar, jo maine ooper post 13 mein dekhne ko kaha, to mera question ye hai ki kyaa jaise ismen 10 categories distinctively banai gai hain, aise hi ek category agriculture ki alag se nahin honi chahiye, aur wo bhi tab jab more than 50% population of country represents farmers only?
3) aapne jo example diya hai, wo agri mein contribution ke saath-saath ek political elite rahe hain, minister bhi rahe hain.....so unko award milna just ek agri ki vajah se nahin hai...aur agar agri ki vajah se hota to fir aapke hi diye "Dr. Ramdhan Hooda" ko kyon nahin mila ye award (Bharat Ratna to chhodiye inko Padam Shree bhi nahin diya gaya?).....kyaa agriculturalist ko is award ko paane ke liye agri ke alava other fields mein bhi talent prove karna hoga?......other categories mein to just within that category bhi kaam kiya ho to award mil jata hai....
4) aise parameters kyon nahin hai abhi tak ki, ek insaan direct soil mein rahte hue bhi agri mein innovative work kare to usko aise awards tak jaane ke liye additional field mein talent prove na kar direct isse hi award miley, example given by you and one more personality Shri Ishwar Singh Kundu also has contributed innovatively.
5) Again my point remains same that even infront the name of Sh. C. Subramaniam, it is not mentioned that this award was confered on him for his contribution in agri rather just as "Independence activist, Minister of Agriculture"....jabki unke liye category to mention hi nahin kar rakhi ki unko yah award politics ke liye mila hai ya agri ke liye?.....Same situation as I explained in last response to you for "Sardar Patel Ji".
Bhai ab humen in cheejon mein "SOPHISTICATION" chahiye...emotions ke base pe ya fir 1-2 awards mil ke doosron ki khusiyon mein apni khusiyan kab tak dhoondte rahenge hum (kisaan)...
I am sure you wanted to write Dr Ramdhan Hooda.
What I meant was that agriculture as a branch might come under science or science n engineering/technology.
I think you shall have a look at this as well - This guy has drafted, envisioned green revolution and food independence and has been awarded Bharat Ratna in 1998. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chidambaram_Subramaniam
http://www.frontlineonnet.com/fl1505/15051130.htm
kapdal
January 31st, 2013, 04:00 AM
The criteria for Bharat Ratna was changed in 2011. This is the notification link.
http://www.mha.nic.in/pdfs/Scheme-BR.pdf
From the link:
Any person without distinction of race, occupation, position or sex is eligible for these awards.
It is awarded in recognition of exceptional service/performance of the highest order in any field of human endeavour.
So Agriculture is technically included. Even though the change was done, as per newspapers, to make sportsmen like Sachin and Dhyanchand eligible.
Quick glance at the list of 41: 50%+ are politicians. People like Rajiv Gandhi and Indira Gandhi have got Bharat Ratna. If BJP comes to power, next one will be Vajpayee. Poor Congress has issues as the next Gandhi in line is Sonia and she is still alive and not that old. But with Congress you never know - maybe they will feel an urge to fast-track the honouring of her "supreme sacrifice" or maybe Manmohan Singh will be kicked out with a Bharat Ratna. Pranabda may also ask for this last feather in his cap.
Do I care about such an award? Not at all....
vicky84
January 31st, 2013, 04:31 AM
The criteria for Bharat Ratna was changed in 2011. This is the notification link.
http://www.mha.nic.in/pdfs/Scheme-BR.pdf
From the link:
Any person without distinction of race, occupation, position or sex is eligible for these awards.
It is awarded in recognition of exceptional service/performance of the highest order in any field of human endeavour.
So Agriculture is technically included. Even though the change was done, as per newspapers, to make sportsmen like Sachin and Dhyanchand eligible.
Quick glance at the list of 41: 50%+ are politicians. People like Rajiv Gandhi and Indira Gandhi have got Bharat Ratna. If BJP comes to power, next one will be Vajpayee. Poor Congress has issues as the next Gandhi in line is Sonia and she is still alive and not that old. But with Congress you never know - maybe they will feel an urge to fast-track the honouring of her "supreme sacrifice" or maybe Manmohan Singh will be kicked out with a Bharat Ratna. Pranabda may also ask for this last feather in his cap.
Do I care about such an award? Not at all....
Yes I agree with you bro. Ruiling party's leader usually get such awards. So, There is no prestige/honour left. In fact politicians have named awards after Rajiv Gandhi and Gandhi dynasty. May be later on Rahul award. Also look at all central ans state schmes. Most of them are named after Indira, Rajiv etc. These people are no less than Saddam!
phoolkumar
January 31st, 2013, 04:24 PM
If any award or certification doesn't matter to you then why you took your career track through IIM? You could prove your talent without that too...no...would it be more difficult? And at the end if you would had to comment like "Do I care about such an award? Not at all...." then I am afraid your time was a full wastage in cotributing to this thread. You may not care as you might no longer feel any affiliation to agri class (which for sure never seen in your other posts) but surprised how you come totally reverse of your image on this post? Or was it to devalue this discussion?
Now coming to point of 41 Bharat Ratna awardies...how many were from the agri-affiliation like you counted 50% from politics? And if to count with 100% affiliation to agri field you may find 0%...?
The link given by you has already come under my scanning too and believe me I rejected mentioning of it in my post because adding this line to new modification "Any person without distinction of race, occupation, position or sex is eligible for these awards." ever will change the fate of Farmer in this regard.
You forgot to get your views on three "Padam" awards too (Padam Shri, Padam Bhushan and Padam Vibhushan)? Anyway when it is not of any care (matter) for you then what should I discuss with you? Not necessarily that on each topic and each time we should have same opinion on a topic sometimes difference of opinions also generate positive things....thanks anyway for bringing the things, which were already discussed on this thread from this or that angle through previous posts.
The criteria for Bharat Ratna was changed in 2011. This is the notification link.
http://www.mha.nic.in/pdfs/Scheme-BR.pdf
From the link:
Any person without distinction of race, occupation, position or sex is eligible for these awards.
It is awarded in recognition of exceptional service/performance of the highest order in any field of human endeavour.
So Agriculture is technically included. Even though the change was done, as per newspapers, to make sportsmen like Sachin and Dhyanchand eligible.
Quick glance at the list of 41: 50%+ are politicians. People like Rajiv Gandhi and Indira Gandhi have got Bharat Ratna. If BJP comes to power, next one will be Vajpayee. Poor Congress has issues as the next Gandhi in line is Sonia and she is still alive and not that old. But with Congress you never know - maybe they will feel an urge to fast-track the honouring of her "supreme sacrifice" or maybe Manmohan Singh will be kicked out with a Bharat Ratna. Pranabda may also ask for this last feather in his cap.
Do I care about such an award? Not at all....
phoolkumar
January 31st, 2013, 04:35 PM
She has refused to seek "Bharat Ratna" award and not for just shake of refusing or considering it of no value to her. You may like to read it from here: http://www.thehindu.com/arts/cinema/janaki-rejects-award-says-she-deserves-bharat-ratna/article4347888.ece?textsize=large&test=1
I am shocked to see that intelligent mind like you doesn't understand or feel the importance of such awards and mentions it as if you never bagged any award in life and ever felt motivated and proud of being Bharti on receiving any honor or award till date of your life?
And perhaps it might be because of such attitude of our ELITE class that "Deenbandhu Rehbar-i-Azam Sir Choudhary Chhotu Ram" and many more names from Agri community, like brought by Samar and other friends through previous posts on this thread never penetrate through such honors. I am sorry to say didi but I don't agree with your point here.
And perhaps that is because more than 90% of elites who hail from agri-community, found low in feel on their mentioning of caste to others (you are excluded from it because I know your pain and feel about farmers and having your positive perception in mind it makes me double shocked on knowing this type of view from you on this subject) while living in urban lives. And that is why it doesn't matter for them if their social identity and repo is put under questions and despite taking it on stand they are seen avoiding from such situations.
Deenbandhu Rehbar-i-Azam Sir Choudhary Chhotu Ram has not been awarded Bharat Ratna or any other such award.
Does it make any difference to me in my respect towards him? NO.
While some people are refusing to accept these awards, why are we asking for same? Please see:
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-01-27/chennai/36576857_1_padma-bhushan-s-janaki-award
kapdal
February 1st, 2013, 06:19 AM
If any award or certification doesn't matter to you then why you took your career track through IIM? You could prove your talent without that too...no...would it be more difficult? And at the end if you would had to comment like "Do I care about such an award? Not at all...." then I am afraid your time was a full wastage in cotributing to this thread. You may not care as you might no longer feel any affiliation to agri class (which for sure never seen in your other posts) but surprised how you come totally reverse of your image on this post? Or was it to devalue this discussion?
Now coming to point of 41 Bharat Ratna awardies...how many were from the agri-affiliation like you counted 50% from politics? And if to count with 100% affiliation to agri field you may find 0%...?
The link given by you has already come under my scanning too and believe me I rejected mentioning of it in my post because adding this line to new modification "Any person without distinction of race, occupation, position or sex is eligible for these awards." ever will change the fate of Farmer in this regard.
You forgot to get your views on three "Padam" awards too (Padam Shri, Padam Bhushan and Padam Vibhushan)? Anyway when it is not of any care (matter) for you then what should I discuss with you? Not necessarily that on each topic and each time we should have same opinion on a topic sometimes difference of opinions also generate positive things....thanks anyway for bringing the things, which were already discussed on this thread from this or that angle through previous posts.
Quite a baffling response, to be honest, full of weird inferences and conclusions. Anyways, for what it is worth:
1. My personal life was not being discussed here. But since you mention it, what has my view on Bharat Ratna got to do with where I went to study? If I understand it correctly, your point is that I went to IIM as it makes it easy to prove my talent and Bharat Ratna is needed to prove talent and hence I must support Bharat Ratna? All 3 parts of that point are incorrect. I did what I did as I had to do something. If I could afford not to work and had a burning desire to prove talent, I'd have rather gone to NSD. Bharat Ratna is not needed to prove talent either. Sachin Tendulkar won't become more or less talented in my eyes once he gets Bharat Ratna. And why MUST I anyways support an award that I don't care about?
2. How is not caring about Bharat Ratna same as not caring about agri classes? You made similar remarks in the response to Bhartiji. What is the connection? It is perhaps better to let others decide what they care about and stick to the topic.
3. How would I know that the same link came in your scanning and you chose not to put it? I mean...how? And if you chose not to put it here, why should it mean that everyone else should also choose not to? You put a list somewhere on the thread and said farmers are not included. The criteria change for Bharat Ratna added "any field of human endeavour". What is the big deal if I provided this counter fact?
4. I didn't respond about Padams as I care even less about them. Bharat Ratna atleast got my curiosity on the criteria and since there were only 41 people. Even filmfare awards are more interesting than Padam awards.
5. The % business went over my head. I said over 50% are politicians in the negative sense of these awards being politically motivated.
6. Finally, you say I wasted my time or I was devaluing the discussion. Feel free to derive such conclusions. But this is an open forum.
phoolkumar
February 1st, 2013, 11:38 AM
1) Bhai Kapil, aap kuchh jyada hi personal le gaye in cheejon ko....aapne apne response ko better banaane ke points to note kar liye but sath-sath ye waale points note nahin kiye, jo maine aapke ke liye kahe: (which for sure never seen in your other posts) but surprised how you come totally reverse of your image on this post?
2) And maine wastage of time isliye kahaa kyon at the end waali jo line thi wo aisi line thi jo ya to hate mein kahi jaati hai ya total disregard mein ki mujhe pasand nahin ye cheejen, to bhai sahab maine sirf yahi kaha tha ki log aapki disregard sunne ke liye is form pe nahin aate, aapke veiws janne ke liye is form pe aate hain.....aapka full post bahut hi achcha tha but last waali line ne aapke saare post ki value ghata di....that is the only thing i wanted to made here which drove me to put the things in a way where I had to remind you the importance of exams, wards and degrees that why we do this and that in specific fields through specific institutes and career houses, else aapke IIM ka jikar karne ka mera koi negative matlab na len aap yahaan
3) Theek hai aapko fark nahin padta to koi baat nahin, ismen koi badi deal thode hi hai but with similar logic of yours jaroori nahin ki aur bhi aisa hi sochte hon.....so my friend aap views put kijiye....aapke disregards nahin.....kyonki disregards kisi bhi discussion ko conclusive edge pe nahin le ja paate.....wo jeopardize si situation khadi kar dete hain......aur last mein yahi sochne ko kahte hain ki ok then lets ki is point se to koi conclusive nahin niklaa.[
4) apne response mein other person ka jikar kar mujhe yahaan koi front nahin khada karna....aapne views post kiye aur bilkul karte rahiyega....difference of opinions are also of the importance as the unification of opinions on one topic..aap mere se mukhatib rahen...
5) aur rahi baat in awards ki iske ke liye inki political importance, psychological importance (ab fir se mujhe mat kahiyega ki ab mujhe tum ye padhaoge, no not at all) but saying if by chance you wont have read about it then requesting to please read them.....my sole conclusion about your post was this that "ki agar aap itne hi neeras se jwaab de rahe hain to fir poora award and appreciation system hi khatm karwa dete hain na, starting from LKG classes till Bharat Ratna.....all kind of awards and honors....kyon kyaa kahte hain
6) About your finding and what further can be search out on it: Ye "any field of human endeavour" word jod dena sirf janta ko ullu banana hota hai, pata nahin aapko ye baat catch kyon nahin hui, any field ke criteria set bhi to banaaye honge kuchh?, wo in logon (government or committee for such awards) ne add kiye ya nahin....us point pe ja ke aapki research question pe aati hai aur isi question pe maine is reference ko add karne se chhod diya tha (you are right, I should used better word here in analysing your efforts ki how should you know ki main is report ko pahle dekh chuka hoon but isko maine reference mein isliye nahin liya kyonki with criteria set-up for elibigibities defined for these awards, this just one page notice is a grabage to me).....aur ya just ye words modify karne se ho gaya kaam?
aur % ka game tumhe ye dikhaane ke liye bataya tha ki aaj tak situation change hui hai jo aaj hogi....aur is simple one page letter se awards decide kaise honge (here either we need to search the eligibility list or demand it from authorities).....baaki ki details kahaan hai jinse eligibility define hogi....aap kuchh wo wala fact research karke laate to aapke post ki value jyada hoti...aur isiliye maine is reference ko skip kar diya tha jab ye mere aage aai.....ab ya to in logon ne is ek page pe "any field of human endeavour" ye words chipka ke public ko tarka diya ya fir wakai mein criteria sets define karen hain to wo public ke saamne public kyon nahin hue abhi tak...may be mujhe internet pe abhi tak wo cheejen nahin mili....may be you could get it for us as you are one of among the best internet savvies...???
UOTE=kapdal;331360]Quite a baffling response, to be honest, full of weird inferences and conclusions. Anyways, for what it is worth:
1. My personal life was not being discussed here. But since you mention it, what has my view on Bharat Ratna got to do with where I went to study? If I understand it correctly, your point is that I went to IIM as it makes it easy to prove my talent and Bharat Ratna is needed to prove talent and hence I must support Bharat Ratna? All 3 parts of that point are incorrect. I did what I did as I had to do something. If I could afford not to work and had a burning desire to prove talent, I'd have rather gone to NSD. Bharat Ratna is not needed to prove talent either. Sachin Tendulkar won't become more or less talented in my eyes once he gets Bharat Ratna. And why MUST I anyways support an award that I don't care about?
2. How is not caring about Bharat Ratna same as not caring about agri classes? You made similar remarks in the response to Bhartiji. What is the connection? It is perhaps better to let others decide what they care about and stick to the topic.
3. How would I know that the same link came in your scanning and you chose not to put it? I mean...how? And if you chose not to put it here, why should it mean that everyone else should also choose not to? You put a list somewhere on the thread and said farmers are not included. The criteria change for Bharat Ratna added "any field of human endeavour". What is the big deal if I provided this counter fact?
4. I didn't respond about Padams as I care even less about them. Bharat Ratna atleast got my curiosity on the criteria and since there were only 41 people. Even filmfare awards are more interesting than Padam awards.
5. The % business went over my head. I said over 50% are politicians in the negative sense of these awards being politically motivated.
6. Finally, you say I wasted my time or I was devaluing the discussion. Feel free to derive such conclusions. But this is an open forum.[/QUOTE]
Samarkadian
February 1st, 2013, 11:58 AM
Phool, take it easy. Disregarding(not caring etc as well) any civilian award doesn't prove or equalize someone an anti-agricultural class. We all belong to the same class but yes like you ve some strong like about this, other may have not the same liking. Nonetheless respect for a farmer doesn't go down or negated by saying otherwise.
Going by your logic, someone from business community can say that dukandaars didn't get any Bharat Ratna award but some shrewd businessmen got it so dukandaars are most deserving as they have been doing this for centuries.
We are a very young nation,just a generation old, things take time. Anndata is itself a honorable category that all other Bhart Ratna awardees would exchange it happily.
Your findings are good but send them to concerned authorities or such a platform.
PS:- When you reply and want to quote someone's post, click on the right button -''reply with quote'' and then leave some distance so that your reply and quoted post doesn't mingle. It would help readers to comprehend properly.
phoolkumar
February 1st, 2013, 12:02 PM
Bhai maine Kapil ko response kiya hai, Kapil ki just ye "not caring waali" line ne swaad khatta kar diya disucssion ka otherwise all was going on track....you may like to read my lastest response to him
Phool, take it easy. Disregarding(not caring etc as well) any civilian award doesn't prove or equalize someone an anti-agricultural class. We all belong to the same class but yes like you ve some strong like about this, other may have not the same liking. Nonetheless respect for a farmer doesn't go down or negated by saying otherwise.
Going by your logic, someone from business community can say that dukandaars didn't get any Bharat Ratna award but some shrewd businessmen got it so dukandaars are most deserving as they have been doing this for centuries.
We are a very young nation,just a generation old, things take time. Anndata is itself a honorable category that all other Bhart Ratna awardees would exchange it happily.
Your findings are good but send them to concerned authorities or such a platform.
PS:- When you reply and want to quote someone's post, click on the right button -''reply with quote'' and then leave some distance so that your reply and quoted post doesn't mingle. It would help readers to comprehend properly.
bharti
February 1st, 2013, 10:43 PM
Phool Kumar ji,
Sharing same surname and having exchanged few mails does not necessarily mean we know each other.
I am sorry for posting on this thread.
regards,
Bharti.
phoolkumar
February 1st, 2013, 11:08 PM
No comment...Bharti Ji....shayad galti ho gai mere se ki maine surname same hone ke kaaran aapko didi kaha...!
aur kyonki didi-didi kahke peechhe padunga to dhakke jaisa lagega but didi khaha hai to ab didi to aap rahengi hi...baaki posts pe comments nahin karne to wo aapka personal decision...I can't comment on that.
Phool Kumar ji,
Sharing same surname and having exchanged few mails does not necessarily mean we know each other.
I am sorry for posting on this thread.
regards,
Bharti.
desijat
February 1st, 2013, 11:17 PM
If any award or certification doesn't matter to you then why you took your career track through IIM?
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कहीं की ईंट कहीं का रोड़ा, फूल कुमार भाई ने कुनबा जोड़ा
Study(specially management) at a premier institute is aimed to learn better and to gain a network, not just to get the brand name, what does it have to do with Bhart Ratna anyways?
krishdel
February 1st, 2013, 11:32 PM
Phool Kumar Ji,
You are right that no such award is there for the farmer, and the persons who raised the voice of farmers were supressed , It is the hard work of Chaudhary Charan Singh that today the farmers are getting something otherwise please tell me who was the leader in India who even tried to raise the voice of Farmers & Rural Area, It was Chaudhary Charan Singh who reserved seats in IIT also for Rural Area and then later on Congress scrapped it.
Thanks to Chaudhary Devi LaL that he raised the compensation of land that was given to farmers 30 times what the Cong. was giving to farmers. For this you can check the compensation rate given for acquiring land was given by Cong before Devi Lal became the Dy.Prime Minister, You will be surprised the in Delhi farmers have been paid less than rate of cloth .
Land compensation to many villages in Delhi ( Minirka, Sahapur Jat, Peera Garghi, Pitampura was less than the rate of cloth.
That time the rate of 1 meter cloth was more than what govt paid for same land acquired by Cong Govt.
All these not benefited only the JAT community but other community also, have you ever listened from other community praising these leaders, beacause farmer community are divided.
It is better for JAT community to move out of this profession because it is least paying, we should make our childeren technical persons.
Regards
Krishan Lakra
phoolkumar
February 1st, 2013, 11:49 PM
Lakra ji, cent-percent agree with your points and concerns...and imaging your suggested scenario us din desh mein anaaj ka akaal pad jayega jis din Jats ne kheti chhod di to....
and now on practical grounds - it is almost impossible ki aap sabhi Jats ko agri se nikaal itni jaldi technical professionists bana doge ya kisi aur business mein divert kar doge....aur ek pal ko maan lo hum aisa transformation community mein karne bhi lag jaayen to kam se kam 1 century to lag hi jayegi....and I don't think ki Jats ke bina ek aisi kheti jo bhar-pet khana khila sake uski at least aaj ke din koi kalpana bhi kar sakta hai.....
so humen aise options bhi dekhne honge jinse ki kheti mein rahte hue bhi hum apne farming class ki life ko respectful and regardful bana saken....aur uske liye recognition chahiye aur recognition ke liye samman (appreciation) chahiye...aur awards milna usi samman ko paane ke jariyon mein se ek hai....maaniye ya na maaniye is cheej ka psychological impact padta hai...
ab aap bhai Sushil Kumar ka example hi le ljiye (though wo sports ke field se hain) but jaise hi suna ki unka naam Padam Bhushan ke liye nominate hua hai to mujhe to ek alag hi khusi mahsoos hui...aur saath hi utna hi upset bhi feel kiya jab unka naam is award list mein nahin aaya....though next year aa jayega...kyonki unko to inhe dena hi padega....
Phool Kumar Ji,
You are right that no such award is there for the farmer, and the persons who raised the voice of farmers were supressed , It is the hard work of Chaudhary Charan Singh that today the farmers are getting something otherwise please tell me who was the leader in India who even tried to raise the voice of Farmers & Rural Area, It was Chaudhary Charan Singh who reserved seats in IIT also for Rural Area and then later on Congress scrapped it.
Thanks to Chaudhary Devi LaL that he raised the compensation of land that was given to farmers 30 times what the Cong. was giving to farmers. For this you can check the compensation rate given for acquiring land was given by Cong before Devi Lal became the Dy.Prime Minister, You will be surprised the in Delhi farmers have been paid less than rate of cloth .
Land compensation to many villages in Delhi ( Minirka, Sahapur Jat, Peera Garghi, Pitampura was less than the rate of cloth.
That time the rate of 1 meter cloth was more than what govt paid for same land acquired by Cong Govt.
All these not benefited only the JAT community but other community also, have you ever listened from other community praising these leaders, beacause farmer community are divided.
It is better for JAT community to move out of this profession because it is least paying, we should make our childeren technical persons.
Regards
Krishan Lakra
phoolkumar
February 1st, 2013, 11:54 PM
Yes and in similar way, getting awards and recongition is a way to assess your achievements and left an impression of proud, esteem and motivation to do much better in life.....and if it can be for other categories then why not for farmers.....is it necessary that being farmer you need to prove yourself in other fields,.....why can't it be confront on a farmer just being a farmer?.....is it a difficult job to decide criteria sets for it?....I think if the groups sit together, it can easiliy be made...
कहीं की ईंट कहीं का रोड़ा, फूल कुमार भाई ने कुनबा जोड़ा
Study(specially management) at a premier institute is aimed to learn better and to gain a network, not just to get the brand name, what does it have to do with Bhart Ratna anyways?
desijat
February 2nd, 2013, 12:15 AM
....why can't it be confront on a farmer just being a farmer?......
Please suggest a few names who are JUST farmers?
phoolkumar
February 2nd, 2013, 12:21 AM
Sh. Ramdhan Singh Hooda, mentioned by Samar in one of posts on this thread itself...
Sh. Ishwar Singh Kundu, you can read about him from JL Wiki or read from here: Visit his website from here: http://www.khlagro.org/
Sh. Mansukh Bhai : http://www.vigyanprasar.gov.in/Radioserials/Radio_Serial_Grass_Root_Innovations/Episode_4_2.pdf
Sh. Raghav Gowda Ji: http://www.vigyanprasar.gov.in/Radioserials/Radio_Serial_Grass_Root_Innovations/Episode_11_2.pdf
In sabne agri mein aise-aise revolutions kiye hain just farmer rahte hue ki ye Padam Shri ya Padam Bhushan awards to pakka deserve karte hain... and its just a start....there can be many-more names which are going un-noticed yet...
QUOTE=desijat;331446]Please suggest a few names who are JUST farmers?[/QUOTE]
phoolkumar
February 2nd, 2013, 12:25 AM
And even sir Chhotu Ram, Ch. Charan Singh, Tau Devilal Ji, Sh. Nathuram Mirdha Ji jinhonen politics mein jaa ke farmers ke liye kitna kuchh kiya but abhi tak ye ek Padam award ke layak bhi nahin samjhe gaye...Bharat Ratan to bhool hi jao....ya to ye Jat hone ka khamiyaja bhugat rahe hain otherwise inko ye awards mil chuke hote ab tak....though maanne ki baat hai ki ye inki pahchaan kisi award ki mohtaj nahin.....but mohtaj to inse bhi badi-badi pahchaan waale bhi nahin hain jinko award na milta to shayad koi fark padta....but jab milta hai to inka contribution kis angle se kam kaha ja sakta hai?
desijat
February 2nd, 2013, 12:57 AM
Phool Kumar bhai,
I see a great discrepancy in your wants and your examples. You want Bharat Ratna for JUST farmers but all the names you mentioned are of either politicians(who were related to rural India) or did something that helped farming but that does not make them farmers.
Anyways, I echo the same voice as written by many, awards do not define whom should I respect as the path to any award(excluding gallantry awards) goes through the lanes of PR and diplomacy. Cheers!
phoolkumar
February 2nd, 2013, 01:13 AM
Jo tumhaare post ko quote karke likhe gaye they wo in 4 mein konsa politician hai:
Sh. Ramdhan Singh Hooda, mentioned by Samar in one of posts on this thread itself...
Sh. Ishwar Singh Kundu, you can read about him from JL Wiki or read from here: Visit his website from here: http://www.khlagro.org/ (http://www.khlagro.org/)
Sh. Mansukh Bhai : http://www.vigyanprasar.gov.in/Radio...pisode_4_2.pdf (http://www.vigyanprasar.gov.in/Radioserials/Radio_Serial_Grass_Root_Innovations/Episode_4_2.pdf)
Sh. Raghav Gowda Ji: http://www.vigyanprasar.gov.in/Radio...isode_11_2.pdf (http://www.vigyanprasar.gov.in/Radioserials/Radio_Serial_Grass_Root_Innovations/Episode_11_2.pdf)
apni convenience ke hisaab se chalna hai to ur wish......otherwise sir Chhotu Ram, Ch. Charan Singh, Tau Devilal Ji, Sh. Nathuram Mirdha Ji aur ooper ke 4 names ko 2 different posts mein mention karne ka bhi koi matlab hota hoga....???
you echo is your right....
Phool Kumar bhai,
I see a great discrepancy in your wants and your examples. You want Bharat Ratna for JUST farmers but all the names you mentioned are of either politicians(who were related to rural India) or did something that helped farming but that does not make them farmers.
Anyways, I echo the same voice as written by many, awards do not define whom should I respect as the path to any award(excluding gallantry awards) goes through the lanes of PR and diplomacy. Cheers!
desijat
February 2nd, 2013, 01:16 AM
Please read my reply again, I will edit the post and mark in bold what you missed reading.
Thanks
Jo tumhaare post ko quote karke likhe gaye they wo in 4 mein konsa politician hai:
Sh. Ramdhan Singh Hooda, mentioned by Samar in one of posts on this thread itself...
Sh. Ishwar Singh Kundu, you can read about him from JL Wiki or read from here: Visit his website from here: http://www.khlagro.org/ (http://www.khlagro.org/)
Sh. Mansukh Bhai : http://www.vigyanprasar.gov.in/Radio...pisode_4_2.pdf (http://www.vigyanprasar.gov.in/Radioserials/Radio_Serial_Grass_Root_Innovations/Episode_4_2.pdf)
Sh. Raghav Gowda Ji: http://www.vigyanprasar.gov.in/Radio...isode_11_2.pdf (http://www.vigyanprasar.gov.in/Radioserials/Radio_Serial_Grass_Root_Innovations/Episode_11_2.pdf)
apni convenience ke hisaab se chalna hai to ur wishe......otherwise sir Chhotu Ram, Ch. Charan Singh, Tau Devilal Ji, Sh. Nathuram Mirdha Ji
aur ooper ke 4 names ko 2 different posts mein mention karne ka bhi koi matlab hota hoga....???
you echo is your right....
phoolkumar
February 2nd, 2013, 01:24 AM
ab aap ye chaaho ki inki innovations se farmers ko kyaa faaida hua, wo bhi main aapko batau to fir links dene ka kyaa faaida....links diye hain aapko...aap padh sakte hain khud....ki unki innvoations se log kaise benefitted ho rahe hain aur kaise use kar rahe hain.....aap padiye inki story pooori.....aapki jagah main to nahin padh sakta na.?
baaki ye links kam hain to kam se kam ab aapke paas naam to hain jo aapne maange they aur maine diye....google kijiye aur jitna chaahen utna padh lijiye inke baare mein
Please read my reply again, I will edit the post and mark in bold what you missed reading.
Thanks
kapdal
February 2nd, 2013, 05:09 PM
1) Bhai Kapil, aap kuchh jyada hi personal le gaye in cheejon ko....aapne apne response ko better banaane ke points to note kar liye but sath-sath ye waale points note nahin kiye, jo maine aapke ke liye kahe: (which for sure never seen in your other posts) but surprised how you come totally reverse of your image on this post?
2) And maine wastage of time isliye kahaa kyon at the end waali jo line thi wo aisi line thi jo ya to hate mein kahi jaati hai ya total disregard mein ki mujhe pasand nahin ye cheejen, to bhai sahab maine sirf yahi kaha tha ki log aapki disregard sunne ke liye is form pe nahin aate, aapke veiws janne ke liye is form pe aate hain.....aapka full post bahut hi achcha tha but last waali line ne aapke saare post ki value ghata di....that is the only thing i wanted to made here which drove me to put the things in a way where I had to remind you the importance of exams, wards and degrees that why we do this and that in specific fields through specific institutes and career houses, else aapke IIM ka jikar karne ka mera koi negative matlab na len aap yahaan
3) Theek hai aapko fark nahin padta to koi baat nahin, ismen koi badi deal thode hi hai but with similar logic of yours jaroori nahin ki aur bhi aisa hi sochte hon.....so my friend aap views put kijiye....aapke disregards nahin.....kyonki disregards kisi bhi discussion ko conclusive edge pe nahin le ja paate.....wo jeopardize si situation khadi kar dete hain......aur last mein yahi sochne ko kahte hain ki ok then lets ki is point se to koi conclusive nahin niklaa.[
4) apne response mein other person ka jikar kar mujhe yahaan koi front nahin khada karna....aapne views post kiye aur bilkul karte rahiyega....difference of opinions are also of the importance as the unification of opinions on one topic..aap mere se mukhatib rahen...
5) aur rahi baat in awards ki iske ke liye inki political importance, psychological importance (ab fir se mujhe mat kahiyega ki ab mujhe tum ye padhaoge, no not at all) but saying if by chance you wont have read about it then requesting to please read them.....my sole conclusion about your post was this that "ki agar aap itne hi neeras se jwaab de rahe hain to fir poora award and appreciation system hi khatm karwa dete hain na, starting from LKG classes till Bharat Ratna.....all kind of awards and honors....kyon kyaa kahte hain
6) About your finding and what further can be search out on it: Ye "any field of human endeavour" word jod dena sirf janta ko ullu banana hota hai, pata nahin aapko ye baat catch kyon nahin hui, any field ke criteria set bhi to banaaye honge kuchh?, wo in logon (government or committee for such awards) ne add kiye ya nahin....us point pe ja ke aapki research question pe aati hai aur isi question pe maine is reference ko add karne se chhod diya tha (you are right, I should used better word here in analysing your efforts ki how should you know ki main is report ko pahle dekh chuka hoon but isko maine reference mein isliye nahin liya kyonki with criteria set-up for elibigibities defined for these awards, this just one page notice is a grabage to me).....aur ya just ye words modify karne se ho gaya kaam?
aur % ka game tumhe ye dikhaane ke liye bataya tha ki aaj tak situation change hui hai jo aaj hogi....aur is simple one page letter se awards decide kaise honge (here either we need to search the eligibility list or demand it from authorities).....baaki ki details kahaan hai jinse eligibility define hogi....aap kuchh wo wala fact research karke laate to aapke post ki value jyada hoti...aur isiliye maine is reference ko skip kar diya tha jab ye mere aage aai.....ab ya to in logon ne is ek page pe "any field of human endeavour" ye words chipka ke public ko tarka diya ya fir wakai mein criteria sets define karen hain to wo public ke saamne public kyon nahin hue abhi tak...may be mujhe internet pe abhi tak wo cheejen nahin mili....may be you could get it for us as you are one of among the best internet savvies...???
Phool, you have made much out of my words that I don't care about BR awards. It is a perfect storm in a tea-cup. It is a question of comprehension of the language. Such words are not used to show hate or disregards as you put it. The context is what matters. If I say to someone, "You are a *$*$%* monkey, I don't care what you say" - then it perhaps shows hate/disregards. I use it all the time without meaning any hate. Just to give you one example, my boss would say to me, "oh wow, market is spiking". And I'd say, "I don't care XXX, I have XXX to finish". It doesn't mean I don't care about him, even lesser that I disregard/hate him. In this example I actually even care about what the market is doing, but at that instant I don't care. Long story short - context matters.
On the topic of this thread, I actually don't care about BR awards. What was the context? I didn't just write "I don't care" - it was preceded by my logic of why I don't care. Now you are saying the logic was good, but you didn't like the final line. For which I'd only say...What?
Rest assured, I didn't take it personally even if you have been making observations on my background, image, etc. I can't do much about how you choose to argue - so I don't care. I haven't made similar observations on you. Nor did I react with a feeling of hurt in my last post. I just gave several arguments against your posts. Not one of which, to be honest, you have answered. If I started getting hurt about people being silly on JL, then I'd have left the platform long time back.
You keep saying difference of opinion is fine, but then you are not really taking them in the right spirit. This is not even a topic of great interest to me. I posted 5 lines that summed my view. After that, if you launched a movement on BR, I simply won't have cared. It is your weird inferences that forced me to respond.
I saw what you wrote originally about "front khada karna". It is good you edited it although I can't say if you edited your opinion as well. All I'd say is that I have pretty much had a debate with everyone active on JL. If I had any interest in "front khada karna", my history here would have been quite different. How offensive you wish to be to make a non-existent point is upto your wisdom - I can't really afford to care about it.
Finally, what you are saying about this GoI notification is quite strange. Are you saying farmers are technically included or excluded from BR? It seemed till a point you were saying they are excluded by definition. It is a completely different thing to say that they can get it technically, but they will never get it because of some other reasons. This GoI notification is quite important for technical eligibility. I posted it because I found it. If I was the opening poster, I'd have posted it there to put all facts on the table. Now, I am not arguing that this notification means that farmers will definitely get it, etc. etc. So, I have no interest to engage in that debate OR to find further evidence OR to analyse the notification itself.
I still don't care about BR awards, and I am still glad that I studied from LKG to wherever. The latter is education that everyone needs, especially if one comes from a humble background, because it enables you to make a living. Awards like BR or Padmas, on the other hand, are political toys that keep the rulers of this country entertained. Wildly different things - not something I need to expound upon in much further detail.
phoolkumar
February 2nd, 2013, 05:29 PM
Ok Kapil, lets leave it behind, and as Samar said I should also not have become so offensive on your point of " I don't care".....well honestly speaking I still take all your views in a true spirit of keeping the discussion on logical terms.
Though I have already told that this was just by chance and a try to make you understand my point of view by taking the example of education....might be better if I would have taken my own example here, so the only thing I wanted to make on your first post on this thread was to make it reasonable and understandable that why awards, degrees, appreciations were introduced in society and why we feel happy on getting such rewards or feel sorrow on losing the chance and so on...
That is the only thing I wanted to make....but now I also feel that unexpectedly it has gone a long way...so giving end to this here...I hope now we can proceed on topic....conclusion is that all ours (yours and mine) and all other friends, who posted on this thread one thing which we can take to move further is to envisage the criteria and eligibility list for such awards even BR...the 6th point which I talked for in my last post to you.....
And please believe me that I have no personal intereference with you, it was just the difference of opinion on this topic...nothing else....otherwise you know that we had good discussion on many topics, where we both emerged among the seriously concerned in protecting/defending our social system and shared common concerns....thanks!
Phool, you have made much out of my words that I don't care about BR awards. It is a perfect storm in a tea-cup. It is a question of comprehension of the language. Such words are not used to show hate or disregards as you put it. The context is what matters. If I say to someone, "You are a *$*$%* monkey, I don't care what you say" - then it perhaps shows hate/disregards. I use it all the time without meaning any hate. Just to give you one example, my boss would say to me, "oh wow, market is spiking". And I'd say, "I don't care XXX, I have XXX to finish". It doesn't mean I don't care about him, even lesser that I disregard/hate him. In this example I actually even care about what the market is doing, but at that instant I don't care. Long story short - context matters.
On the topic of this thread, I actually don't care about BR awards. What was the context? I didn't just write "I don't care" - it was preceded by my logic of why I don't care. Now you are saying the logic was good, but you didn't like the final line. For which I'd only say...What?
Rest assured, I didn't take it personally even if you have been making observations on my background, image, etc. I can't do much about how you choose to argue - so I don't care. I haven't made similar observations on you. Nor did I react with a feeling of hurt in my last post. I just gave several arguments against your posts. Not one of which, to be honest, you have answered. If I started getting hurt about people being silly on JL, then I'd have left the platform long time back.
You keep saying difference of opinion is fine, but then you are not really taking them in the right spirit. This is not even a topic of great interest to me. I posted 5 lines that summed my view. After that, if you launched a movement on BR, I simply won't have cared. It is your weird inferences that forced me to respond.
I saw what you wrote originally about "front khada karna". It is good you edited it although I can't say if you edited your opinion as well. All I'd say is that I have pretty much had a debate with everyone active on JL. If I had any interest in "front khada karna", my history here would have been quite different. How offensive you wish to be to make a non-existent point is upto your wisdom - I can't really afford to care about it.
Finally, what you are saying about this GoI notification is quite strange. Are you saying farmers are technically included or excluded from BR? It seemed till a point you were saying they are excluded by definition. It is a completely different thing to say that they can get it technically, but they will never get it because of some other reasons. This GoI notification is quite important for technical eligibility. I posted it because I found it. If I was the opening poster, I'd have posted it there to put all facts on the table. Now, I am not arguing that this notification means that farmers will definitely get it, etc. etc. So, I have no interest to engage in that debate OR to find further evidence OR to analyse the notification itself.
I still don't care about BR awards, and I am still glad that I studied from LKG to wherever. The latter is education that everyone needs, especially if one comes from a humble background, because it enables you to make a living. Awards like BR or Padmas, on the other hand, are political toys that keep the rulers of this country entertained. Wildly different things - not something I need to expound upon in much further detail.
Samarkadian
February 2nd, 2013, 06:37 PM
Thats the spirit Phool.
You can sum up all points with its pro and cons in a logical presentable manner and can send it to publish to different agricultural magazines and media. For example Harvinder Bhaisahab has started his channel , it could be a fine topic of debate and actual awareness can be created among the people. Along with that make a power point slide in an appealing format and put it on you tube.
phoolkumar
February 2nd, 2013, 08:12 PM
Good idea Samar,
But we still need more research on it especially to find out what kind of documentation is done especially on these 4 awards i.e. BR, Padam Shri, Bhushan and Vibhushan.....and further in regard to farming community
The search til date is just on the basis of docs and abstracts found on internet.....I think to reach a meaningfull suggestion/conclusion we need to contact (may be by putting a RTI) to get full documentation on process, rules and regulations, criteria defined by GOI for these honors and awards with regard to agri field...
and then on the basis of review of those docs, we should anlayse that what is included (if included) for agri class and what further should be added or modified....so that in addition to a better review and analysis an effective suggestion/recommendation could be presented
Thats the spirit Phool.
You can sum up all points with its pro and cons in a logical presentable manner and can send it to publish to different agricultural magazines and media. For example Harvinder Bhaisahab has started his channel , it could be a fine topic of debate and actual awareness can be created among the people. Along with that make a power point slide in an appealing format and put it on you tube.