Kareena Kapoor and Malaika Arora Khan equally responsible for the death of Damini

[AbhikRana]

No doubt people with sick minds need to be put in mental asylums and not be allowed to roam around freely. These men have no respect for even the ladies in their family. Not only they, even their families are equally responsible for the sick minds of their boys/men.

Cheap women like Kareena Kapoor, Malaika Arora Khan, Malika Sherawat are equally responsible for the countless unfortunate incidents that happen with women in India. Cheap women like them through vulgar and titillating item numbers are corrupting the minds not only of the sick people but also the young and impressionable minds. What is equally shameful is the fact that people have come to accept this vulgar culture by playing those vulgar and titillating songs at their family functions.

What to talk of the advertising world? Show a scantily clad woman in the advt. of every product whether the presence of woman there is appropriate/relevant or not. A case in point is the advt. of Carlton Suitcase where they just show the legs of a woman dressed in a mini skirt. There are countless such advts., but seemingly no control over them.

[Samarkadian]

No doubt people with sick minds need to be put in mental asylums and not be allowed to roam around freely. These men have no respect for even the ladies in their family. Not only they, even their families are equally responsible for the sick minds of their boys/men.

Cheap women like Kareena Kapoor, Malaika Arora Khan, Malika Sherawat are equally responsible for the countless unfortunate incidents that happen with women in India. Cheap women like them through vulgar and titillating item numbers are corrupting the minds not only of the sick people but also the young and impressionable minds. What is equally shameful is the fact that people have come to accept this vulgar culture by playing those vulgar and titillating songs at their family functions.

What to talk of the advertising world? Show a scantily clad woman in the advt. of every product whether the presence of woman there is appropriate/relevant or not. A case in point is the advt. of Carlton Suitcase where they just show the legs of a woman dressed in a mini skirt. There are countless such advts., but seemingly no control over them.

Yes world is a one weird place, it was and it would be. The same media and people blast Khaps when they ban DJ in marriages ridiculing its medieval mindset. People would do what pleases them. Further in the absence of your quoted cinema and advertising world was equally corrupt. It is just human being, by nature,like to appreciate old times.

[RavinderSura]

दो दिन पहले मीडिया में सांसद अभिजीत मुखर्जी के ब्यान की काफी आलोचना हुई जिस कारण बाद में अभिजीत को मांफी मांगनी पड़ी । हो सकता हैं अभिजीत के कहने का तरीका व समय सही नहीं था परन्तु मेरे हिसाब से उन्होंने जो कहा बिलकुल सही कहा । दो - तीन दिन चला यह आन्दोलन शहरी लोगो की बनाई हुई सामाजिक संस्थाओं द्वारा चलाया गया था । शहरियों में भी दो तबके हैं एक उच्चवर्ग तबका तथा दूसरा मध्यवर्ग तबका और शहरियों की ये सामाजिक संस्थाए ज्यादातर उच्चवर्गीय तबके के लोगो की मिलेंगी , इन लोगो को समाज के भले की चिंता ज्यादा रहती हैं क्योंकि शहरियों के मध्यवर्गीय तबके को रोजी रोटी की भाग दौड़ से ही फुर्सत नहीं हैं । समाज के चिंतक इन उच्चवर्गीय लोगो (मर्द व औरत दोनों ) का लिबास भी देखने में अलग ही मिलेगा । इन लोगो की रात्रि की पार्टी की तस्वीरें पेज थ्री में सवेरे देखने को मिलती हैं । उन तस्वीरों में एक इन लोगो का लिबास देखे और एक फिर हमारे मध्यवर्गीय लोगो का लिबास । मध्यवर्गीय लोगो के लिबास में शर्म हया नजर आएगी परन्तु इनके लिबास में तो हर औरत अप्सरा मेनका का रूप धारण किये मिलती हैं । अब जहा मेनका होगी तो फिर वहाँ विश्वामित्र का होना भी लाजमी हैं । अकेली औरतें ही नहीं मर्दों का लिबास भी इनसे कुछ कम नहीं देखने में ऐसा लगता हैं जैसे की दोनों में नंगेपन की होड़ सी लगी हो । लड़के ऐसी पेंट पहनेंगे जो की देखने में ऐसा लगता हैं अब निकली तब निकली , पहनी अगले ने होती है और जी दुखी देखने वाले का रहता हैं की कहीं निकल ना जाए । आज इस देश के 80% देहाती लोगो का भाग्य ये 5-10% उच्चवर्गीय शहरी तय कर रहे हैं । फिल्मो के माध्यम से ये लोग वासना को प्रेम बता रहे हैं । इन लोगो का सिर्फ एक धर्म हैं पैसा और इसके लिए एक ही असूल हैं की जो दीखता हैं सो बिकता हैं । ये लोग यह नहीं सोचते की जो तुम लोग बेच रहे हो उससे निचले तबके की मानसिकता पर क्या असर पड़ रहा हैं । समाज में बदलाव धीरे धीरे आता हैं एक दम से ऐसे लाएंगे तो फिर विस्फोट ही होगा , अपराध बढेगा घटेगा नहीं ।

[cutejaatsandeep]

दो दिन पहले मीडिया में सांसद अभिजीत मुखर्जी के ब्यान की काफी आलोचना हुई जिस कारण बाद में अभिजीत को मांफी मंगनी पड़ी । हो सकता हैं अभिजीत के कहने का तरीका व समय सही नहीं था परन्तु मेरे हिसाब से उन्होंने जो कहा बिलकुल सही कहा । दो - तीन दिन चला यह आन्दोलन शहरी लोगो की बनाई हुई सामाजिक संस्थाओं द्वारा चलाया गया था । शहरियों में भी दो तबके हैं एक उच्चवर्ग तबका तथा दूसरा मध्यवर्ग तबका और शहरियों की ये सामाजिक संस्थाए ज्यादातर उच्चवर्गीय तबके के लोगो की मिलेंगी , इन लोगो को समाज के भले की चिंता ज्यादा रहती हैं क्योंकि शहरियों के मध्यवर्गीय तबके को रोजी रोटी की भाग दौड़ से ही फुर्सत नहीं हैं । समाज के चिंतक इन उच्चवर्गीय लोगो (मर्द व औरत दोनों ) का लिबास भी देखने में अलग ही मिलेगा । इन लोगो की रात्रि की पार्टी की तस्वीरें पेज थ्री में सवेरे देखने को मिलती हैं । उन तस्वीरों में एक इन लोगो का लिबास देखे और एक फिर हमारे मध्यवर्गीय लोगो का लिबास । मध्यवर्गीय लोगो के लिबास में शर्म हया नजर आएगी परन्तु इनके लिबास में तो हर औरत अप्सरा मेनका का रूप धारण किये मिलती हैं । अब जहा मेनका होगी तो फिर वहाँ विश्वामित्र का होना भी लाजमी हैं । अकेली औरतें ही नहीं मर्दों का लिबास भी इनसे कुछ कम नहीं देखने में ऐसा लगता हैं जैसे की दोनों में नंगेपन की होड़ सी लगी हो । लड़के ऐसी पेंट पहनेंगे जो की देखने में ऐसा लगता हैं अब निकली तब निकली , पहनी अगले ने होती है और जी दुखी देखने वाले का रहता हैं की कहीं निकल ना जाए । आज इस देश के 80% देहाती लोगो का भाग्य ये 5-10% उच्चवर्गीय शहरी तय कर रहे हैं । फिल्मो के माध्यम से ये लोग वासना को प्रेम बता रहे हैं । इन लोगो का सिर्फ एक धर्म हैं पैसा और इसके लिए एक ही असूल हैं की जो दीखता हैं सो बिकता हैं । ये लोग यह नहीं सोचते की जो तुम लोग बेच रहे हो उससे निचले तबके की मानसिकता पर क्या असर पड़ रहा हैं । समाज में बदलाव धीरे धीरे आता हैं एक दम से ऐसे लाएंगे तो फिर विस्फोट ही होगा , अपराध बढेगा घटेगा नहीं ।

bhai ye andolan kissi ka chalayaa huaa nahi thaa.....i know aap aise baat kyo bol rahe ho coz aap congress ke supporter ho....n congress jaise toochi sarkar n uske tooche leaders ko to beech sadak mai goli marr deni chahiye......congress ke neta azfal guru n osama bin laden jaise islamic teroorist ke naam ke aaagee to ji lagatee hai n apne desh ke logo ki jinhone desh ke liye bahut kuch kiya unko izzat nahi dete.......itna bada incident ho gaya rape walaa tab bhi yee saale andolan karne walo ko galat bata rahe hai.......inkii maa behno betiyon ka bhi rape hona chahiye tab itne pata chalega ki rape sirf eek ladki na nahi uski whole family ka hota hai.....soo plzz in congressioo ki itni baatein n care mat kiya karo

[vipinrathee]

seriously its a mental disease which is spreading like anything in society...Its not possible to reform these monsters...Only harsh punishment will be a deterrent for these kinda monsters..They are menace to the society..Govt is impotent, it will do nothing.. we , the people of india should pledge not to tolerate this kinda incident in future..those monsters should be lynched there and then...

[rekhasmriti]

"Cheap women "
1st -----I oppose the term CHEAP for any women----we are not objects.
2nd-----If I have understood what you are trying to say, then u r accusing celebrity clothing ----- clothing -styling is never cheap. Its the junk in sick people's head which is cheap .

Now who is accepting this culture - me n u all . We all watch those movies , shows , advertisements ,posters .
I m not marketing major----however there is a phrase " Demand n Supply ". So called people like us like to watch , that's what they show.The day we stop buying that stuff , boycotting all such drama ------it would all vanish .
I have said this in so many posts ----still repeating - Clothing , media etc is not responsible for it . Its the SICK MENTALITY .

Although I never favor comparison between us n other so called European or american countries . Still , wanna say , if celebrity dressing would be the cause then those countries would top on such heinous crimes .

Only n Only thing responsible is PATHETIC-SICK MENTALITY of people .
Why are we making excuses , don't we have guts to admit that our so called system of Sanskar , Culture , education , awareness, ethics , morals has COLLAPSED ?

PS : I give a damn about those celebrities .

[bsbana]

Although I never favor comparison between us n other so called European or american countries . Still , wanna say , if celebrity dressing would be the cause then those would top on such heinous crimes

It is our misconception that rape and other crimes happen in India only. US has much higher rate of rapes than India (check statistics), US also tops in firearm murders. Some people say that middle-east has less amount of crime because of strict laws. However, according to Islamic laws, witnesses are necessary to prove rapes, otherwise many time case of rape is changed into that of adultery by influential people and victim herself get punished. Many Indians think that everything is goody-goody in other nation.



I m not marketing major----however there is a phrase " Demand n Supply ". So called people like us like to watch , that's what they show.The day we stop buying that stuff , boycotting all such drama ------it would all vanish .

Demand is always created. Whole capitalist system is based on consumerism. Robert Marcuse said that an appetite is created for luxury products, middle class buy those products and waste their hard-earned money, so again they have to work for capitalists to survive. This is a cycle, you work in companies and earn money, buy products and give your hard earned money to other industries, that's all capitalism. On the side note, I have found that Baniyas don't spend money in many things, despite being very rich.



I oppose the term CHEAP for any women----we are not objects.

And who encourages objectification of women ? Same media and same Bollywood. I agree that we can talk without using such adjectives for particular women.



Only n Only thing responsible is PATHETIC-SICK MENTALITY of people .

And where does mentality come from ? A guy is not born with ready-made mentality, he learns almost everything from society. He learns from people in his family, his village, his locality, books, cinemas, newspaper,etc. Different people take different meanings from same thing. There is no single factor responsible but lot of factors are responsible for such crimes, psychological determinism or psychological reduction-ism would not be wise.

[VPannu]

No doubt people with sick minds need to be put in mental asylums and not be allowed to roam around freely. These men have no respect for even the ladies in their family. Not only they, even their families are equally responsible for the sick minds of their boys/men.

Cheap women like Kareena Kapoor, Malaika Arora Khan, Malika Sherawat are equally responsible for the countless unfortunate incidents that happen with women in India. Cheap women like them through vulgar and titillating item numbers are corrupting the minds not only of the sick people but also the young and impressionable minds. What is equally shameful is the fact that people have come to accept this vulgar culture by playing those vulgar and titillating songs at their family functions.

What to talk of the advertising world? Show a scantily clad woman in the advt. of every product whether the presence of woman there is appropriate/relevant or not. A case in point is the advt. of Carlton Suitcase where they just show the legs of a woman dressed in a mini skirt. There are countless such advts., but seemingly no control over them. I tend to disagree with your thoughts. First of all, it is disrespectful to term these women as 'cheap'. It is their job to entertain people. I don't think anyone of us would watch a movie with only male actors. The bitter truth is - sex sells, and that is why there are 'item numbers' showing more skin in movies to lure more crowd. It is the man who has to change himself. Just because someone watched a raunchy video, it doesn't mean he should go out and molest a female. No matter what a girl wears, NO ONE reserves the right to rape her. वेद पुराण में तो लिखा था की यत्र नार्यस्तु पूजयन्ते रमन्ते तत्र देवः , पूजा तो दूर की बात अगर औरत / लड़की को शान्ति से जीने दो वही बहोत है |
"If I'm a woman and I'm walking down the street naked, you STILL don't have a right to rape me." - Dick Gregory

[RavinderSura]

It is their job to entertain people.
समय का हेर फेर हैं कभी नाच के मनोरंजन करने वालियों को कंजरी कहा जाता था अब ये स्लेब्रिटी हो गईं हैं | :)

[jakharanil]

समय का हेर फेर हैं कभी नाच के मनोरंजन करने वालियों को कंजरी कहा जाता था अब ये स्लेब्रिटी हो गईं हैं | :)


Mother India me ek social msg. tha aaj ki Muder 2 Jisam 2 me kya ..... both film r woman based ye sb dimag ka diwaliyapan ho gaya h.... Ramlila or natak ab nhi rhe h..... Cencer Board ko cencer ki jaurat h....

[AbhikRana]

There is a universal saying that a person is known by the work that he/she does. These women are per se not cheap. The work they do by choice is cheap and that makes them cheap.

Modernity does not lie in the clothes one wears or does not wear. Modernity lies in the mind. There should be equality in:
* upbringing of male and female child.
* education opportunities.
* career opportunities and the right to make choices.
* right to choose life partner (of course with the guidance of elders).
* right to choosing when to have children and how many, etc.

Unfortunately, we take modernity to be just short clothes, eating out at Dominos, late night movies, weekend visit to malls, etc.

We cannot just let the glamour world including the advertising world hurtle the society towards an abyss. Tomorrow if they start selling contraband/drugs, we cannot just shrug it off as a matter of personal choice - If we like we can consume it, if we don't we can look the other way. Fortunately or unfortunately, the media plays a key role in shaping the society and carries a huge burden on its shoulders.

Just to enter or maintain their place in the glamour world or for a few more bucks in their pocket, a few cheap women endanger the safety and dignity of the rest.

They have commoditised women who according to the sick people encouraged/lured by the glamour world can just be taken/purchased off the shelf.


"Cheap women "
1st -----I oppose the term CHEAP for any women----we are not objects.
2nd-----If I have understood what you are trying to say, then u r accusing celebrity clothing ----- clothing -styling is never cheap. Its the junk in sick people's head which is cheap .

Now who is accepting this culture - me n u all . We all watch those movies , shows , advertisements ,posters .
I m not marketing major----however there is a phrase " Demand n Supply ". So called people like us like to watch , that's what they show.The day we stop buying that stuff , boycotting all such drama ------it would all vanish .
I have said this in so many posts ----still repeating - Clothing , media etc is not responsible for it . Its the SICK MENTALITY .

Although I never favor comparison between us n other so called European or american countries . Still , wanna say , if celebrity dressing would be the cause then those countries would top on such heinous crimes .

Only n Only thing responsible is PATHETIC-SICK MENTALITY of people .
Why are we making excuses , don't we have guts to admit that our so called system of Sanskar , Culture , education , awareness, ethics , morals has COLLAPSED ?

PS : I give a damn about those celebrities .

[VPannu]

समय का हेर फेर हैं कभी नाच के मनोरंजन करने वालियों को कंजरी कहा जाता था अब ये स्लेब्रिटी हो गईं हैं | :)
haan bhai, doom ar miraassi to khatam hoge. reservation le ke nokri laag ge ar naach gaana chhod diya. ghar-2 tv / dvd hoge, shahar me movie theater hoge. kimme to chahiye na entertainment ka source nahi to jansankhya control nahi hogi.

[swaich]

दो दिन पहले मीडिया में सांसद अभिजीत मुखर्जी के ब्यान की काफी आलोचना हुई जिस कारण बाद में अभिजीत को मांफी मांगनी पड़ी । हो सकता हैं अभिजीत के कहने का तरीका व समय सही नहीं था परन्तु मेरे हिसाब से उन्होंने जो कहा बिलकुल सही कहा । दो - तीन दिन चला यह आन्दोलन शहरी लोगो की बनाई हुई सामाजिक संस्थाओं द्वारा चलाया गया था । शहरियों में भी दो तबके हैं एक उच्चवर्ग तबका तथा दूसरा मध्यवर्ग तबका और शहरियों की ये सामाजिक संस्थाए ज्यादातर उच्चवर्गीय तबके के लोगो की मिलेंगी , इन लोगो को समाज के भले की चिंता ज्यादा रहती हैं क्योंकि शहरियों के मध्यवर्गीय तबके को रोजी रोटी की भाग दौड़ से ही फुर्सत नहीं हैं । समाज के चिंतक इन उच्चवर्गीय लोगो (मर्द व औरत दोनों ) का लिबास भी देखने में अलग ही मिलेगा । इन लोगो की रात्रि की पार्टी की तस्वीरें पेज थ्री में सवेरे देखने को मिलती हैं । उन तस्वीरों में एक इन लोगो का लिबास देखे और एक फिर हमारे मध्यवर्गीय लोगो का लिबास । मध्यवर्गीय लोगो के लिबास में शर्म हया नजर आएगी परन्तु इनके लिबास में तो हर औरत अप्सरा मेनका का रूप धारण किये मिलती हैं । अब जहा मेनका होगी तो फिर वहाँ विश्वामित्र का होना भी लाजमी हैं । अकेली औरतें ही नहीं मर्दों का लिबास भी इनसे कुछ कम नहीं देखने में ऐसा लगता हैं जैसे की दोनों में नंगेपन की होड़ सी लगी हो । लड़के ऐसी पेंट पहनेंगे जो की देखने में ऐसा लगता हैं अब निकली तब निकली , पहनी अगले ने होती है और जी दुखी देखने वाले का रहता हैं की कहीं निकल ना जाए । आज इस देश के 80% देहाती लोगो का भाग्य ये 5-10% उच्चवर्गीय शहरी तय कर रहे हैं । फिल्मो के माध्यम से ये लोग वासना को प्रेम बता रहे हैं । इन लोगो का सिर्फ एक धर्म हैं पैसा और इसके लिए एक ही असूल हैं की जो दीखता हैं सो बिकता हैं । ये लोग यह नहीं सोचते की जो तुम लोग बेच रहे हो उससे निचले तबके की मानसिकता पर क्या असर पड़ रहा हैं । समाज में बदलाव धीरे धीरे आता हैं एक दम से ऐसे लाएंगे तो फिर विस्फोट ही होगा , अपराध बढेगा घटेगा नहीं ।

Pardon me, Sura ji, but you have used a broad brush to paint everyone in the protests in a black color. You are right about the flimsy dresses and the page 3 parties of well to do urbanites but mixing that with the recent protests is unfair.

If anything, these protests saw for the first time a mixed crowd comprising of the whole spectrum of the middle class. From the people I know who attended the protests, news videos that I saw and several articles that I read point out the fact it was a mixture of students, young professionals, housewives and senior citizens. This was a wave of anger from the same people who earlier gathered with Anna Hazare before they were dispersed by a lack of a concrete political alternative. And do remember, many of these people just like the victim herself, are from non-metro towns of the country and are in Delhi to study or work. That is why the biggest protests were seen on off-days like the 25th and the weekends. So its wrong and disparaging of their efforts to brand them as 'dented and painted'. And even if the protesters are middle class and urban, does that make the crime less heinous?

Its right that this incident has attracted so much attention because it was a urban middle class issue. It happened to a middle class girl in the heart of the capital and that partly explains the wave of protests and sense of injustice that swept the mainly urban areas of the country. Similar and far worse crimes happen in the hinterlands and the rural areas of the backward regions and no one pays any attention. Even if reported by the media such news is relegated to the back pages before it vanishes without a trace. Soni Sori, a young woman whose father was suspected to be a Maoist was gang raped by Chattisgarh police and brutalized by inserting stones in her private parts. How many of us know about it?

But the point is, rather than look for fault-lines we should appreciate that there is a chance this anger will lead to something concrete. If anti-rape laws are made stricter, special courts are established or rapists are punished more severely as a result of these protests, it will benefit the women of the entire country; not just the cities. If such incidents are able to drive social change it will affect the whole nation, maybe at varying levels but still it gives hopes to millions of women in the country, be it villages or metros. So lets not think with biases. Lets appreciate the people who are putting in their time and lets share the hope that things will get better for women of this country.

[Mishti]

Jitender Chhatar- Chowmein leads to hormonal imbalance evoking an urge to indulge in such acts (rape)
Abhik Rana- Cheap women like Kareena Kapoor, Malaika Arora Khan, Malika Sherawat are equally responsible for the countless unfortunate incidents that happen with women in India.

Seems like there’s a competition going on- who comes up with the most stupid explanation for such heinous crimes, lets’s just wait for more!!

[RavinderSura]

bhai ye andolan kissi ka chalayaa huaa nahi thaa.....i know aap aise baat kyo bol rahe ho coz aap congress ke supporter ho....n congress jaise toochi sarkar n uske tooche leaders ko to beech sadak mai goli marr deni chahiye......congress ke neta azfal guru n osama bin laden jaise islamic teroorist ke naam ke aaagee to ji lagatee hai n apne desh ke logo ki jinhone desh ke liye bahut kuch kiya unko izzat nahi dete.......itna bada incident ho gaya rape walaa tab bhi yee saale andolan karne walo ko galat bata rahe hai.......inkii maa behno betiyon ka bhi rape hona chahiye tab itne pata chalega ki rape sirf eek ladki na nahi uski whole family ka hota hai.....soo plzz in congressioo ki itni baatein n care mat kiya karo
इस सोच को थोड़ा और ऊपर उठा ले | कांग्रेस के साथ तो वा बात हैं की मेरे देश मे 99 बेईमान फिर भी मेरा देश महान क्योंकि पड़ोसी 100 के 100 बेईमान हैं यही कांग्रेस के साथ हैं , कांग्रेस टुची होते हुए भी देश पर राज कर रही हैं क्योंकि विपक्षी महाटुचे हैं |

[RavinderSura]

भाई सिवाच , मैं सारी भीड़ के लिए नहीं कह रहा , मैंने तो हाइ सोसाइटी के चंद लोगो के लिए बोला था जो मीडिया मे इसकी अगुवाई कर रहे थे | मेरा इशारा तो उन लोगो की तरफ था जो रोज शाम को टीवी पे नजर आते हैं बड़ी बड़ी बाते करते हैं जमीनी हक़ीक़त से उनका कोई वास्ता नहीं होता | इन 5-10% लोगो के रीति रिवाज देश के 90% लोगो से कहीं मेल नहीं खाते | कानून मे संसोधन जरूरी हैं और अकेले कानून ही नहीं इसमे घरवालो की भी जिम्मेवारी बनती हैं की वो बच्चो को क्या संस्कार देते हैं उनका बच्चो पर कितना नियंत्रण हैं | वैसे इनमे आधे से ज्यादा मुकदमे झूठे होते हैं इसलिए कानून मे संसोधन भी सोच समझ के करना चाहिए नहीं तो कुछ लोग बाद मे इसे ब्लेक मेलिंग का धंधा बना लेंगे |
हम लोग हिन्दू मैरिज एक्ट मे संसोधन की बात करते हैं तो ये लोग हमे तालिबानी कहते हैं यदि हम अपनी मांग के लिए इनकी तरह राष्ट्रपति भवन पर चढ़ाई करते तो ये लोग पता नहीं हमारे लिए क्या क्या शब्दो का इस्तेमाल करते , माना की गुस्सा था पर क्या सिर्फ इन लोगो का गुस्सा गुस्सा हैं हमारा कुछ नहीं , मीडिया इनके गुस्से को सरकार तक़ पहुचाती हैं परंतु मीडिया को हमारा गुस्सा कभी नजर नहीं आया अगर आया भी तो उसमे उसे तालिबान दिखता हैं| इस हिन्दू मेरीज एक्ट के कारण हमारे लोगो को कितनी मानसिक परेशानी झेलनी पड़ती हैं वह इन लोगो को क्यों नजर नहीं आती कहने मतलब यह हैं की दोगला व्यवहार नहीं होना चाहिए | अब इनके गुस्से की घड़ियाली आशुओं की देख लेना दो दिन की बात और हैं | कल मैं टीवी पर देख रहा था की तमाम फिल्मी सितारे रो रहे थे बड़ा दुख हुआ उन लोगो को , असली दुख का तो 31 की रात को पता चलेगा इनमे से कितने जश्न मनाते हैं और कितने शोक |

[RavinderSura]

Seems like there’s a competition going on- who comes up with the most stupid explanation for such heinous crimes, lets’s just wait for more!!
बहुत गिनौना अपराध था यह इसमे कोई दोराय नहीं और ऐसे अपराधो को रोकने के लिए सख्त कानून बनाने की बात भी सही हैं क्योंकि हमारे देश मे लोग डर से ज्यादा काबू मे आते हैं पुचकार से नहीं परंतु इसके साथ साथ इस पर भी विचार जरूरी हैं की ऐसे अपराधो के ग्राफ मे बढ़ोतरी क्यो हो रहे हैं इस सबका असली ज़िम्मेवार कौन हैं ? साँप न के मारे साँप की माँ ने मारे |

[rekhasmriti]

"Modernity does not lie in the clothes one wears or does not wear. Modernity lies in the mind. There should be equality in:
* upbringing of male and female child.
* education opportunities.
* career opportunities and the right to make choices.
* right to choose life partner (of course with the guidance of elders).
* right to choosing when to have children and how many, etc.


Unfortunately, we take modernity to be just short clothes, eating out at Dominos, late night movies, weekend visit to malls, etc."


In agreement .


"Tomorrow if they start selling contraband/drugs"


Are they ? They can not there is a very big difference between Illegal/ Legal .


"the media plays a key role in shaping the society and carries a huge burden on its shoulders."
If that is the case why to blame parenting, upbringing , surroundings , education etc for it . BAN all show biz channels n movies ,
and BINGO such Heinous crimes would be vanished . we need to share this VERY ImPORTANT PIECE OF INFORMATION WITH THe GOVT .


"a few cheap women endanger the safety and dignity of the rest."
No matter how loud I go , this cHEAP word is like calling name to every woman . Endanger to society u mean then in Islamic countries
there is no danger to woman -no such heinous crimes . I m not good with statistics , so u may be right .
Again BINGO-


"sick people encouraged/lured by the glamour"
If some body is already sick , he can be allured even with a CANDY . So shall we BAN the candy.OR shall we fix those SICK PEOPLE.


(please accept my aplogies for being sarcastic , however I could not control it )


Above mentioned your reply .


Now , please dear , stop accusing us for any such damn thing . Trust me even if its just for money no WOMAN want this .If reasons mentioned
by you are responsible for it . Then free those culprits of bus gang rape . Rather HANG US ALL , we brutally murdered her not them.


I rest my case -----done with defending ourselves every then n now . Enough is enough.

[rekhasmriti]

"US has much higher rate of rapes than India (check statistics)"


Hmmm possible , do share statistics . Also please keep a note that how many of %ge of cases get repoorted in
India . Many tend to live their life with such trauma instaed of reporting out of society and family pressure.


"according to Islamic laws, witnesses are necessary to prove rapes"
May be , I have no clue about ISlamic Laws . Related to witnesses or evidence , you are right . Still wanna share something,
I have never seen any court hearing in my life ( ram ji kare kabhi suno bhi na ) . One of my known used to go to Tees HAzari was a law student ,
she herself being lawyer said she has seen rape hearings and all witness stuff as well . She concluded, its better not to report,
coz people they murder u with every word they say in every moment.




"Many Indians think that everything is goody-goody in other nation"
U r talking about stuff decades back , now coz of Internet we all know whats good with our nation or what not .
Earlier when we did not have any exposure almost every one dream of settling abroad thinking its better out there .
Now situations change , people rather want to stay in India so what if they get paid less( leave it off topic)


"Demand is always created"
Don't u think , ALWAYS is not right word . At times yes demand is created. If people are so dumb that they would fall for
such so called created Show Biz Demand , why to blame celebrities dear .


" I have found that Baniyas don't spend money in many things, despite being very rich."
Just your perception . Mine is altogthter different . Baniyas if I m not wrong considered to be miser
when it comes to spend money on others like frnds n all ( anyways leave it , off topic)


"And who encourages objectification of women ? Same media and same Bollywood"
No dear its US , we encourage Obejectification of women . They just show us what we wanna see.


"And where does mentality come from ? A guy is not born with ready-made mentality, he learns almost everything from society. He learns from people in his family, his village, his locality, books, cinemas, newspaper,etc"
In agreement , that is why I have stated "Why are we making excuses , don't we have guts to admit that our so called system of Sanskar , Culture , education , awareness, ethics , morals has COLLAPSED ?"


"no single factor responsible but lot of factors"
Share some factors , may that would help identifying root cause of sich heinous action.


Above mentioned was your reply .


Now dear , just think in very layman language . If these so called actions of celebrities are reponsible for such crimes.
Then why not me or u doing same on the streets . We all watch them and like them .Rather everybody appreciate them.
Then whats the %ge of such people with sick minds doing it -----5 /10/20/30 % may be . I do not know u know statistics better than me.




PS : If people like u n me with good education and upbringing would think this way . Then now I am so sure our SYSTEM has COLLAPSED already .


No more replys from my side : Humare yahan kahawat hai , jismei jitni samajh hoti hai woh utni hi bat karta hai .

[bsbana]

Hmmm possible , do share statistics . Also please keep a note that how many of %ge of cases get repoorted in
India . Many tend to live their life with such trauma instaed of reporting out of society and family pressure.

We can say same about US girls too, many US girls also may not report case.
BTW
http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/QQAAAL6N_EG4TSviVRH2jlCw82vYHqLOn4mAev841vylZNzBGn p8kyQ9ClQ1mlNBMOqYKyb8u8mWqgDHV7rxL0RG_HgwM8ANDtaN N4yYGLdhWTA-AJtU9VBeutS32VutY7m5nt2vA-fZzf7eew.jpg
P.S. whatever is written in pic is not my opinion, I am sharing it for reference only.


Now dear , just think in very layman language . If these so called actions of celebrities are reponsible for such crimes.
Then why not me or u doing same on the streets . We all watch them and like them .Rather everybody appreciate them.
Then whats the %ge of such people with sick minds doing it

I already said that there are lot of factors behind such crimes but I think that media is also a factor, not only factor though. BTW I haven't abused any media personality. There are lot of mass murders in US, in my opinion Hollywood plays a role in that because they do show extreme violence in movies, but again I would say that this is not the "only factor". I forgot name of the hollywood movie in which a boy turns into mass-murderer because he watched lot of violent movies in his childhood. Human brain is heavily influenced by media(movies,books and newspaper). If you say only sick mentality is responsible for this. Then this discussion ends here. Rather we should worry about how to deal with people of sick mentality. One is making our police and judiciary more effective, other is giving suggestion to women not to go in night, third is allowing easy gun licence so women can deal with criminal by themselves.

[upendersingh]

"US has much higher rate of rapes than India (check statistics)"
Hmmm possible , do share statistics.


Mrs. Tomar, go through this link

Link (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita)

[upendersingh]

The United States Department of Justice recently revealed a very shocking statistics that of course shocked all who heard it. According to the agency, in the United States, a woman gets raped every 2 seconds. Can you believe that? I guess it is so shocking you find it hard to believe but the sad thing is it is true.
In America again, it was revealed that 91 percent of people who suffer from rape are females with the remaining being males.
In this article we are going to take a look at how to avoid getting raped. It goes out to both men and women.
how to avoid getting raped/Tips to avoid getting raped:
1. If you are walking alone and you suddenly feel that someone is following, try crossing the street and accelerate your steps.
2. Whatever you do try not to walk alone at desolate places. Remember that walking in group is always best at night.
3. If you are to park your car at night, then always try to park at a place that is well-lit. This scares people with evil intentions away.
4. You should also know that it is a misconception that most rapes are committed by strangers. In actual fact majority of rapes are committed by people who you know: friends, partners and even relatives. So have that at the back of your mind too. It can save you from getting raped.
5. Don’t let strangers into your house no matter what excuse they give.
6. Always be careful with your drink. If you leave your drink unattended a potential rapist can easily slip drugs into the drink that will knock you out or make you weak such that you cannot defend yourself from an attack.
The above are some of the important measures you can take to avoid getting raped. I believe that if more women took the above tips seriously then we would see a drastic reduction in rape cases.

Link (http://expertscolumn.com/content/woman-raped-united-states-every-2-seconds)

[cutejaatsandeep]

इस सोच को थोड़ा और ऊपर उठा ले | कांग्रेस के साथ तो वा बात हैं की मेरे देश मे 99 बेईमान फिर भी मेरा देश महान क्योंकि पड़ोसी 100 के 100 बेईमान हैं यही कांग्रेस के साथ हैं , कांग्रेस टुची होते हुए भी देश पर राज कर रही हैं क्योंकि विपक्षी महाटुचे हैं |

congress barr barr aa jati hai tabhi to kehte hai ki kalyug chal raha hai.....dont worry iss barr congress koni aaweee....doosri baat mai kissi political ko support naa karta..mai achi leadership ko suport karta hu.....aissa eek hi leader hai woo hai modi......kuch time gujarat ghoom aaa apki saari confusion ho jayegi ki media kyo usse itna highlight karti hai......n kaise woo 4th time cm ban gaya.....

[AbhikRana]

I am unable to comprehend your taking offence to the reference of a few women who indulge in cheap dances and moves while wearing almost no clothes as cheap. What could be the compulsion for Kareena Kapoor to indulge in such cheap item numbers? Earning two square meals a day? I think not. These few women are not representing the entire women community of the country or outside. If you take them to be representative of the entire community, that's your view and you are welcome to harbour that view.

Your answer to the drugs example is not sufficient to the case in point. There is a huge demand for contraband/drugs like cheap, vulgar, titillating item numbers and C grade movies, does that mean we allow that to happen because a part of society wants to enjoy it and feel liberated?????

You are missing the woods for the trees by your reply. Do you mean to say that no movie would run without an item number or the heroine removing her clothes? There have been and still are some movies and actresses who actually draw audiences just for the sheer quality of their acting work and not the vulgar show of skin/flesh.

Having a candy will spoil the person's own teeth, it would not affect the dignity of others especially the girls!!

You may defend the cheap actresses, but I still hold them to be cheap and doing a disservice to the society in general and the womenfolk in particular. By indulging in cheap show of flesh, they are the ones who are commoditising women as an object of desire who can be had by hook or crook by the sick elements of society who unfortunately exist.

It might seem okay to you to see a 3-4 year old child dancing and singing 'Munni badnaam hui', but I certainly do not find it appropriate and would blame Malaika Arora Khan and others responsible for this number for playing their part in spreading this cheap culture/malaise in the society.





"Modernity does not lie in the clothes one wears or does not wear. Modernity lies in the mind. There should be equality in:
* upbringing of male and female child.
* education opportunities.
* career opportunities and the right to make choices.
* right to choose life partner (of course with the guidance of elders).
* right to choosing when to have children and how many, etc.


Unfortunately, we take modernity to be just short clothes, eating out at Dominos, late night movies, weekend visit to malls, etc."


In agreement .


"Tomorrow if they start selling contraband/drugs"


Are they ? They can not there is a very big difference between Illegal/ Legal .


"the media plays a key role in shaping the society and carries a huge burden on its shoulders."
If that is the case why to blame parenting, upbringing , surroundings , education etc for it . BAN all show biz channels n movies ,
and BINGO such Heinous crimes would be vanished . we need to share this VERY ImPORTANT PIECE OF INFORMATION WITH THe GOVT .


"a few cheap women endanger the safety and dignity of the rest."
No matter how loud I go , this cHEAP word is like calling name to every woman . Endanger to society u mean then in Islamic countries
there is no danger to woman -no such heinous crimes . I m not good with statistics , so u may be right .
Again BINGO-


"sick people encouraged/lured by the glamour"
If some body is already sick , he can be allured even with a CANDY . So shall we BAN the candy.OR shall we fix those SICK PEOPLE.


(please accept my aplogies for being sarcastic , however I could not control it )


Above mentioned your reply .


Now , please dear , stop accusing us (WHO IS ACCUSING YOU OR THE WOMEN FOLK? You are perforce and unnecessarily identifying yourself with them without any rhyme, reason or reference made) for any such damn thing . Trust me even if its just for money no WOMAN want this .If reasons mentioned
by you are responsible for it . Then free those culprits of bus gang rape . Rather HANG US ALL , we brutally murdered her not them.


I rest my case -----done with defending ourselves every then n now . Enough is enough.

[ygulia]

There is 99% reporting of such cases while in India there is hardly 1% reporting. Definition of rape is different for different country. In USA, if a woman says no during intercourse(which started with consent) and the person did not withdraw then it becomes a rape which is not the case in India. Statistics are misleading becuase parameters to measure those results are different for most of the countries. A plain reading of it will never give a true picture.

[AbhikRana]

Thanks for equating my viewpoint with the chowmein comment.

Well, even for a moment if we keep aside the unfortunate incidents of misbehaviour/violence with women and the sick animals, I would be appalled that you or any right thinking person would be okay with the commoditisation of woman which the cheap and vulgar item numbers do.

Removing clothes is not forward looking but backward looking. It is something similar to the pre-historic ages when people lived in caves and wore nothing but leaves (or not even that). Modernity and advancement of society would involve behaving and dressing like humans, not pre-historic individuals.

Of course there should be freedom to dress as one wants, but not to UNDRESS (in public) as one wants.

Crime against women can be tackled through multi-pronged strategy involving not only stricter laws and their implementation, but also change in the mindset of both men (especially the sick animals) and women (especially the so-called liberated ones who think that liberty only comes with removing clothes).


Jitender Chhatar- Chowmein leads to hormonal imbalance evoking an urge to indulge in such acts (rape)
Abhik Rana- Cheap women like Kareena Kapoor, Malaika Arora Khan, Malika Sherawat are equally responsible for the countless unfortunate incidents that happen with women in India.

Seems like there’s a competition going on- who comes up with the most stupid explanation for such heinous crimes, lets’s just wait for more!!

[AbhikRana]

Mr. Gulia,

Even in India, if the consent is withdrawn in between, it amounts to rape.

Regardless of statistics, a rape is a rape in any society and needs to be dealt with an iron hand. The sick animals perpetrating it should actually be shot dead in a public square so that the very thought of it does not even cross the minds of others like them .



There is 99% reporting of such cases while in India there is hardly 1% reporting. Definition of rape is different for different country. In USA, if a woman says no during intercourse(which started with consent) and the person did not withdraw then it becomes a rape which is not the case in India. Statistics are misleading becuase parameters to measure those results are different for most of the countries. A plain reading of it will never give a true picture.

[bsbana]

There is 99% reporting of such cases while in India there is hardly 1% reporting. Definition of rape is different for different country. In USA, if a woman says no during intercourse(which started with consent) and the person did not withdraw then it becomes a rape which is not the case in India. Statistics are misleading becuase parameters to measure those results are different for most of the countries. A plain reading of it will never give a true picture.
We have to believe in statistics to compare two countries. How do you know that there is 1% reporting and not 2% or 0.5% ? Even in India, many women also accuse men falsely, only God knows about consent. There also may be various reasons for US women for not reporting case. I have read western novels and they do talk about unreported exploitation, unreported exploitation do happens in west that's why there is mention in novels. And How do these US army men and army women behave with prisoners ? It's shame that even US army women are guilty of molestation.

[vvk1987]

दो दिन पहले मीडिया में सांसद अभिजीत मुखर्जी के ब्यान की काफी आलोचना हुई जिस कारण बाद में अभिजीत को मांफी मांगनी पड़ी । हो सकता हैं अभिजीत के कहने का तरीका व समय सही नहीं था परन्तु मेरे हिसाब से उन्होंने जो कहा बिलकुल सही कहा । दो - तीन दिन चला यह आन्दोलन शहरी लोगो की बनाई हुई सामाजिक संस्थाओं द्वारा चलाया गया था । शहरियों में भी दो तबके हैं एक उच्चवर्ग तबका तथा दूसरा मध्यवर्ग तबका और शहरियों की ये सामाजिक संस्थाए ज्यादातर उच्चवर्गीय तबके के लोगो की मिलेंगी , इन लोगो को समाज के भले की चिंता ज्यादा रहती हैं क्योंकि शहरियों के मध्यवर्गीय तबके को रोजी रोटी की भाग दौड़ से ही फुर्सत नहीं हैं । समाज के चिंतक इन उच्चवर्गीय लोगो (मर्द व औरत दोनों ) का लिबास भी देखने में अलग ही मिलेगा । इन लोगो की रात्रि की पार्टी की तस्वीरें पेज थ्री में सवेरे देखने को मिलती हैं । उन तस्वीरों में एक इन लोगो का लिबास देखे और एक फिर हमारे मध्यवर्गीय लोगो का लिबास । मध्यवर्गीय लोगो के लिबास में शर्म हया नजर आएगी परन्तु इनके लिबास में तो हर औरत अप्सरा मेनका का रूप धारण किये मिलती हैं । अब जहा मेनका होगी तो फिर वहाँ विश्वामित्र का होना भी लाजमी हैं । अकेली औरतें ही नहीं मर्दों का लिबास भी इनसे कुछ कम नहीं देखने में ऐसा लगता हैं जैसे की दोनों में नंगेपन की होड़ सी लगी हो । लड़के ऐसी पेंट पहनेंगे जो की देखने में ऐसा लगता हैं अब निकली तब निकली , पहनी अगले ने होती है और जी दुखी देखने वाले का रहता हैं की कहीं निकल ना जाए । आज इस देश के 80% देहाती लोगो का भाग्य ये 5-10% उच्चवर्गीय शहरी तय कर रहे हैं । फिल्मो के माध्यम से ये लोग वासना को प्रेम बता रहे हैं । इन लोगो का सिर्फ एक धर्म हैं पैसा और इसके लिए एक ही असूल हैं की जो दीखता हैं सो बिकता हैं । ये लोग यह नहीं सोचते की जो तुम लोग बेच रहे हो उससे निचले तबके की मानसिकता पर क्या असर पड़ रहा हैं । समाज में बदलाव धीरे धीरे आता हैं एक दम से ऐसे लाएंगे तो फिर विस्फोट ही होगा , अपराध बढेगा घटेगा नहीं ।

बात काफी हद तक सही है I ये सुहैल सेठ और शोभा डे जिसे hard core socialites television पर आ कर sophisticated अंग्रेजी में debate करते हैं परन्तु खुद वास्तविक जीवन में नहीं ऐसे होते I सारे के सारे महँगी दारु चढ़ा के रात के अँधेरे में या मद्दम रोशनी में संगीत की ताल पर थिरकते हैं, और फेर संस्कृति और सभ्यता की सारी सीमायें लांघकर सुबह 3 बजे घर लौटते हैं I दिन भर सो कर शाम को टीवी स्टूडियो में आकर बैठ जाते हैं I थोड़ी भोत शर्म लिहाज मध्यमवर्गीय किसान में ही बाकी है I बाकी तो सब कुछ hybrid हो लिया I दुनिया का नाश जाण मै थोड़ी ए कसर बाक़ी है I ये फ़िल्मी दुनिया की नग्नता नै तो कतई नाश ठा राख्या सै I अधनंगा बदन दिखा के आर चार अश्लील ठुमके लगा के करीना कपूर छत्तीशगढ़ में आधा घंटे में एक करोड़ चालीस लाख कमा लेगी जोकि दुनिया कोई कंपनी किसी प्रोफेशनल को पूरे साल में भी शायद नहीं देती होगी हिन्दुस्तान में I जो आधे पढ़े लिखे या फ्लॉप टाइप लड़के हैं वे इनको देख कर और अपराध उन्मुख हो जाते हैं I

[rekhasmriti]

I would request you to call me by my first name----No SALUTATION please


Mrs. Tomar, go through this link

Link (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita)

[AbhikRana]

What would we term the work of these cheap women as? Work such as 'Munni Badnaam Hui', 'Chikni Chameli', 'Jalebi Bai'. In fact lyrics of a few songs are so cheap, vulgar and offensive that they cannot be written here.

What would be the appropriate term for them?

a) Work of art and literature.
b) Patriotic work.
c) Work involving social message/social cause.
d) Entertainment.

'All women are not good' in the same manner as 'All men are not bad'. There are good and bad in all communities, age groups, social strata, sexes, etc.

[AnkurMalik]

Cheap women like Kareena Kapoor, Malaika Arora Khan, Malika Sherawat are equally responsible for the countless unfortunate incidents that happen with women in India. Cheap women like them through vulgar and titillating item numbers are corrupting the minds not only of the sick people but also the young and impressionable minds. What is equally shameful is the fact that people have come to accept this vulgar culture by playing those vulgar and titillating songs at their family functions.

What to talk of the advertising world? Show a scantily clad woman in the advt. of every product whether the presence of woman there is appropriate/relevant or not. A case in point is the advt. of Carlton Suitcase where they just show the legs of a woman dressed in a mini skirt. There are countless such advts., but seemingly no control over them.


Non Sense and ridiculous post.

Such thinking make women life more difficult. Many people in the society comment on how woman should live, what woman should wear etc.

Those people are worst in the society who not only make woman's life difficult but also give encouragement to rapist.

Kindly don't spread such messages in the society. Woman in the society are already oppressed by male dominated society.

Comments like these must be shunned.

[AnkurMalik]

There is 99% reporting of such cases while in India there is hardly 1% reporting. Definition of rape is different for different country. In USA, if a woman says no during intercourse(which started with consent) and the person did not withdraw then it becomes a rape which is not the case in India. Statistics are misleading becuase parameters to measure those results are different for most of the countries. A plain reading of it will never give a true picture.

Definition of rape is different in India from other countries. For example, there are rape allegations on Julian Assange as per Sweden Laws. Such rape charges cannot be laid under Indian laws. So there is a huge difference.

[AnkurMalik]

The United States Department of Justice recently revealed a very shocking statistics that of course shocked all who heard it. According to the agency, in the United States, a woman gets raped every 2 seconds. Can you believe that?
Link (http://expertscolumn.com/content/woman-raped-united-states-every-2-seconds)

Dude there is a huge difference between Indian Laws and US laws. If you implement US laws in India, our figure could be worse than US. Get you facts right. and don't present it as an excuse to avoid the reality.

[ndalal]

मुझे नही लगता की आपको इन लोगों की भाषा से कोई समस्या है(ये अङ्ग्रेज़ी मे बात एसलिए भी करते है क्यूंकी अकादेमिक्स की भाषा अङ्ग्रेज़ी है, एन समस्याओं का विश्लेषण और शब्दावली अङ्ग्रेज़ी मे बेहतर ह या कहें की हिन्दी मे शब्दावली है ही नही बहुत जगह पर, ये समस्या इन विषयों की ही है।) असल मे मेरे अनुसार आपको समस्या इनकी जीवन शैली से है। जहां पूरुष महंगी दारू पी सकते हैं ये महिलाएं भी पी सकती हैं , सभ्यता और संस्कृति की सीमाएं हम महिलाऊ पर ही क्यू लागू होती है?सवाल ये नही है की वो दिन मे सोती हैं या रात मे दारू पिती है।न समस्या करीना के नाचने मे है। आप ही मे से कितने जने हैं जो साफ सुथरी फिल्म देखने जाते हो? ये इंडस्ट्री चल ही इसी बात पे चलती है की जो देखा जाएगा वही और परोसा जाएगा।

सुधार खुद मे करो बिना किसी दूसरे को सुधारने के लिए कहकर(ये बात दोनों महिला और पूरुषों पर समान रूप से लागू होती है)

एक और बात अगर महिला रात मे बाहर घूम भी रही है तो इसका मतलब ये नही है की वो अपने बलात्कार के लिए किसी को आमंत्रित कर रही है रही है


बात काफी हद तक सही है I ये सुहैल सेठ और शोभा डे जिसे hard core socialites television पर आ कर sophisticated अंग्रेजी में debate करते हैं परन्तु खुद वास्तविक जीवन में नहीं ऐसे होते I सारे के सारे महँगी दारु चढ़ा के रात के अँधेरे में या मद्दम रोशनी संगीत की ताल पर थिरकते हैं, और फेर संस्कृति और सभ्यता की सारी सीमायें लांघकर सुबह 3 बजे घर लौटते हैं I दिन भर सो कर शाम को टीवी स्टूडियो में आकर बैठ जाते हैं I थोड़ी भोत शर्म लिहाज मध्यमवर्गीय किसान में ही बाकी है I बाकी तो सब कुछ hybrid हो लिया I दुनिया का नाश जाण मै थोड़ी ए कसर बाक़ी है I ये फ़िल्मी दुनिया की नग्नता नै तो कतई नाश ठा राख्या सै I अधनंगा बदन दिखा के आर चार अश्लील ठुमके लगा के करीना कपूर छत्तीशगढ़ में आधा घंटे में एक करोड़ चालीस लाख कमा लेगी जोकि दुनिया कोई कंपनी किसी प्रोफेशनल को पूरे साल में भी शायद नहीं देती होगी हिन्दुस्तान में I जो आधे पढ़े लिखे या फ्लॉप टाइप लड़के हैं वे इनको देख कर और अपराध उन्मुख हो जाते हैं I

[AbhikRana]

If you have something to say on the topic, please go ahead and say with your viewpoint instead of showing your education by calling somebody else's post as non-sense and ridiculous.

My question still remains:

1. What is the motive behind having those cheap and vulgar lyrics in songs?
2. What is the motive behind gyrating half naked bodies on those vulgar lyrics?

Even if there is demand for cheap songs, PLEASE for God's sake don't do social service by making such songs and fulfilling that demand. Have some self dignity.

Nowhere in this thread has anyone said that if there is vulgarity being served, that gives the right to the sick animals to misbehave. If you still pointlessly want to draw that conclusion, you are free to do exactly that.

You are better advised to read the posts carefully and in full instead of pouring out your pointless acrimony.

You would be happy to have the children including girls in your family dance to Chikni Chameli, Sheila kee Jawani, Munni Badnaam hui, I am not and I am sure any sensible man or woman would not.

Do not come to the forums with a closed and constipated mindset. This is one of the points of discussion for the sorry state of affairs in the society and I intend to discuss on it instead of getting to your level of calling the entire discussion non-sense.

And by the way, I did not know that expecting some misguided women not to remove their clothes in public was OPPRESSION!!!!


Non Sense and ridiculous post.

Such thinking make women life more difficult. Many people in the society comment on how woman should live, what woman should wear etc.

Those people are worst in the society who not only make woman's life difficult but also give encouragement to rapist.

Kindly don't spread such messages in the society. Woman in the society are already oppressed by male dominated society.

Comments like these must be shunned.

[swaich]

While I wont go as far as calling names to actresses, I do think there is a blatant commoditization of woman in entertainment, especially Bollywood.

It will take a multi-pronged approach to change things in society though. The law would have to get tougher, the police have to be sensitized, people have to change how they look at women and the creative-heads and producers have to stop insulting and derogatory references to women via items songs. All of these four factors feed off each other and only taking steps and raising consciousness at all of these four factors will help prevent horrible crimes against women in the future.

[AnkurMalik]

If you have something to say on the topic, please go ahead and say with your viewpoint instead of showing your education by calling somebody else's post as non-sense and ridiculous.

My question still remains:

1. What is the motive behind having those cheap and vulgar lyrics in songs?
2. What is the motive behind gyrating half naked bodies on those vulgar lyrics?

Even if there is demand for cheap songs, PLEASE for God's sake don't do social service by making such songs and fulfilling that demand. Have some self dignity.

Nowhere in this thread has anyone said that if there is vulgarity being served, that gives the right to the sick animals to misbehave. If you still pointlessly want to draw that conclusion, you are free to do exactly that.

You are better advised to read the posts carefully and in full instead of pouring out your pointless acrimony.

You would be happy to have the children including girls in your family dance to Chikni Chameli, Sheila kee Jawani, Munni Badnaam hui, I am not and I am sure any sensible man or woman would not.

Do not come to the forums with a closed and constipated mindset. This is one of the points of discussion for the sorry state of affairs in the society and I intend to discuss on it instead of getting to your level of calling the entire discussion non-sense.

And by the way, I did not know that expecting some misguided women not to remove their clothes in public was OPPRESSION!!!!

Reasons why rape happens:




a)Women are not empowered in India. If a Woman is empowered and she knows what are her rights, she can make a huge difference. Often many rape cases ago unreported. Not to mention about eveteasing. Reason: Either woman is from rural backgroud; she is not well equipped with the knowledge about her rights. Most of the rape cases happen in rural areas. Having a sufficient knowledge of rights is a prerequisite of other things.








b)Police inaction and lack of law and order implemention. Lodging a complaint in a police station itself a tedious task. Police officers often look down upon woman if she reports the case on her own. Rampant corruption and lack of ethics in Police is largely to blame. A Police officer will ask for money to lodge a complaint. And then ask money from offender to supress the voice of victim. Force the victim to do the compromises by giving sprous logics like "Justice nahi milega, compromise kar lo." And if victim does not compromise than Police itself find ways to delay the case in order to frustrate the victim. Police performace checks is very ra


Society attitude towards woman. Even if there is a fault of boy, its the girl who has to suffer. The girl has to bear all the loss. Girl has to compromise everywhere. She has to cover all her body. She cannot wear her choice of clothes. She cannot go out in the night. Because there is law and order problem in society, its the woman has to bear all this bullsh*t.







c)Judical system overburdened with pending cases. Justice can take decades to delivery. Corruption and negligence in judicial process is way too much. Jutice delayed mean justice denied.








d)Social embarrasment to talk about justice for woman. Girl or her parents cannot talk about sexual justice in open. If they talk about it, people look down upon on them. People start finding faults into Girl. Questions being raised on her Character. Talking about sexual justice is social stigma. Of late, Delhi protests have united people and people have started talking about justice for woman.








e)Skewed sex ratio and favour to boy child.








f)Lack of moral values in the society.

[AnkurMalik]

Do not come to the forums with a closed and constipated mindset.


It applies to you . Don't tell me what should i do, and what i should not. I don;t care what rubbish you say or write here.

[AbhikRana]

Your choice of words - 'non-sense, ridiculous, rubbish' shows your mindset and your maturity level. I would not like to continue with you any further in case you just have to write this and not on the merits or demerits of the topic.


It applies to you . Don't tell me what should i do, and what i should not. I don;t care what rubbish you say or write here.

[AnkurMalik]

This exactly shows your mindset and your maturity level. I would not like to continue with you any further in case you just have to write this and not on the merits or demerits of the topic.
Your views reflect your mindset. If you write some crap here, it needs correction. thats wht i did. will continue to do so.

[AbhikRana]

Another word added by you to reflect your mindset - 'non-sense, ridiculous, rubbish, crap'. Carry on kid.


Your views reflect your mindset. If you write some crap here, it needs correction. thats wht i did. will continue to do so.

[AnkurMalik]

Another word added by you to reflect your mindset - 'non-sense, ridiculous, rubbish, crap'. Carry on kid.
Dear, i requested u in my frst post. but instead of coming with some positive mindest, you started commenting on what should i do and should not. instead of starting a positive discussion, u started venting anger.

[AbhikRana]

I appreciate the fact that you have not added any further to your list - non-sense, ridiculous, rubbish, crap.

Though I can, but I would not prefer to return the compliment/s.

I am sure all of us on this forum are angered with the incident that happened and want very strict action to be taken.

There are some things which the govt. has to do - making and implementing strong laws. There are other things that we as citizens have to take care of through affirmative action. For the sake of refreshing/jogging our memories, I will repeat - Changing the mindset of men (especially the sick animals) and women (especially the so-called liberated ones who feel that liberty only comes with removing clothes in public).

It is time there is some churning in the society. We honestly take a look at the realities in society and take some tough decisions and not hide behind the high walls of hypocrisy and what is supposed to be 'politically correct'.

A major part of this churning has to come from the womenfolk who will have to assert themselves by saying 'We are more than pretty faces and beautiful bodies, there is no skill or capability which we do not possess as compared to men, there is no mountain high enough that men can climb and we cannot'. And in fact the message to item number girls and the ad. world needs to go from the womenfolk -'Stop commoditising us'. It would be highly incorrect to say that if men smoke, we will smoke, if men drink we will drink, etc. In fact, both men and women should aspire for the good things and set examples for the society.

If a few misguided women act cheap, I have no hesitation to call them cheap especially when they do not hesitate to undertake that cheapness and spread it in the society.

Finally, I agree with almost all the reasons given by you for violence against women in society, one of which is lack of moral values. Is dancing to vulgar songs while being half-naked moral? Does it help in any way in spreading moral values?

I would prefer to be the so-called 'politically incorrect' by rather taking the bull by its horns.


Dear, i requested u in my frst post. but instead of coming with some positive mindest, you started commenting on what should i do and should not. instead of starting a positive discussion, u started venting anger.

[AnkurMalik]

and women (especially the so-called liberated ones who feel that liberty only comes with removing clothes in public).

I
MR Rana,

I have to disagree with u on the quoted lines. Its the woman who has to decide what she wants to wear, where she wants to go and what she wants to do. Man should not decide her lifestyle. If a woman wear a skirt, its her wish. She might feel good and comfortable in them. Our society should provide woman safety, freedom and right privilege. Thats what freedom called. We have to change our mindset. If don't than the days are not far when we will ask woman to have Burkha. I do understand with you message that there has to be tab on vulgarity. But wearing a skirt or short clother is not vulgar. Vulgar is our thinking , if we think that we way.

[AbhikRana]

I am still awaiting answer to my questions:-

Is dancing half naked to cheap and vulgar songs moral?
Does it help spread moral values?
Why is it being undertaken in the first place - IN FACT, this is one of the important questions that comes up for discussion in context of the topic of this thread.

And also, there is a world of difference in wearing a skirt and being half naked which those item girls and ad. girls are. Also, there is world of difference between the right to dress and the right to undress (in public).

PS. Also, I would request you to reply in black font colour without bold.


MR Rana,

I have to disagree with u on the quoted lines. Its the woman who has to decide what she wants to wear, where she wants to go and what she wants to do. Man should not decide her lifestyle. If a woman wear a skirt, its her wish. She might feel good and comfortable in them. Our society should provide woman safety, freedom and right privilege. Thats what empowerment called. We have to change our mindset. If don't than the days are not far when we will ask woman to have Burkha. I do understand with you message that there has to be tab on vulgarity. But wearing a skirt or short clother is not vulgar. Vulgar is our thinking , if we think that we way.

[AnkurMalik]

Mr Rana,

If wearing short clothes are reasons for rapes, than why Old woman get raped. why woman in salwar kameez, saari get raped.

[AnkurMalik]

A major part of this churning has to come from the womenfolk who will have to assert themselves by saying 'We are more than pretty faces and beautiful bodies, there is no skill or capability which we do not possess as compared to men, there is no mountain high enough that men can climb and we cannot'.
Mr Rana,
Not all girls are bimbo. There might be some exceptions. But we cannot generalise on this notion.

[AbhikRana]

Because sick animals have existed and still exist in society through ages.

Showing half naked bodies as a commodity is ONE OF THE possible reasons besides others. These item girls do those cheap numbers and make a windfall by showing flesh. But the fact of the matter is that they have all the money in the world to have 24 hour bodyguards around them which is not available to the other women.

The wrong picture these item girls present through their cheap work send wrong signals to the sick minds which they apply to the woman on the street who unfortunately do not have the 24 hour security.

As has been pointed out umpteen times in the many posts above, tackling this malaise needs a multi-pronged approach.

By the way, my questions in the post above still await a response from you.

[AbhikRana]

Please specify the specific sentence where you saw a generalisation or where I have painted the entire womenfolk with the same brush.

PS. I would once again request you to reply in the normal black font colour without bold.


Mr Rana,
Not all girls are bimbo. There might be some exceptions. But we cannot generalise on this notion.

[AnkurMalik]

I am still awaiting answer to my questions:-

Is dancing half naked to cheap and vulgar songs moral?
Does it help spread moral values?
Why is it being undertaken in the first place - IN FACT, this is one of the important questions that comes up for discussion in context of the topic of this thread.

And also, there is a world of difference in wearing a skirt and being half naked which those item girls and ad. girls are. Also, there is world of difference between the right to dress and the right to undress (in public).

PS. Also, I would request you to reply in black font colour without bold.
Mr Rana,

Agree that vulgarity has to be shunned. but we cannot impose a dress code on woman(plz do not make India Saudi Arabia). Nor does it give a licence to man to molest her if she wears short clothes or dance on the beats wearing short clothes. its a wrong attitude in our society.

[RavinderSura]

Reason: Either woman is from rural backgroud; she is not well equipped with the knowledge about her rights. Most of the rape cases happen in rural areas. Having a sufficient knowledge of rights is a prerequisite of other things.

अंकुर जी मैं आपकी इस बात से सहमत नहीं हु की अधिकतर रेप केस ग्रामीण क्षेत्र मे होते हैं | असल मे ग्रामीण क्षेत्र मे जीतने रेप केस की खबर मीडिया मे आती हैं उनमे से ज़्यादातर केस झूठे होते हैं | अगर वहा पर कोई ऐसा केस होता भी हैं तो उसके लिए लोग फिर आपस मे मारा मारी पर उतारू हो जाते हैं | हाँ कुछ छोटी जाति के लोगो के साथ ऐसा कुछ होता हैं तो वो लोग फिर बेचारे कोर्ट का सहारा लेते हैं | बड़ी जाति मे ऐसा गिनौना काम बहुत कम सुनने को मिलेगा अगर होगा भी तो फिर उसको वे लोग या तो आपस मे सिर फोड़ कर निपटाते हैं या फिर पंचायत निपटाती हैं | देहात मे 'होनौर के लिए किलिंग ' करते देर नहीं लगाते | आपको भिवानी ज़िले के चरखी गाँव का एक वाक्य बता देता हु 2000-2001 की बात हैं चरखी गाँव मे एक कादियान गोत्र का परिवार बस्ता था | उस परिवार ने अपने पड़ोसी खेत की महिला से बलात्कार कर उसको मार के वहीं खेत मे गाड़ दिया | कुछ दिन बाद लाश मिली सारी कहानी उजागर हुई तो पंचायत ने इस गिनौने अपराध के लिए उस परिवार का गाँव निकाला का फरमान सुनाया | कादियान परिवार इसके लिए हाइ कोर्ट गए और हाइ कोर्ट ने सरकार को इन्हे वापिस गाँव मे बसाने के आदेश दिये | सरकार ने भिवानी डीसी व दादरी एसडीएम को भेजा परंतु चरखी गाँव मे सारी खाप एकत्रित हो गई और माहौल देखते हुए सरकार ने हाथ खड़े कर दिये | उसके बाद उस परिवार ने कोर्ट सरकार से आश छोड़ सर्व खाप के समक्ष गुहार लगाई , उस परिवार के लिए सिर्फ कादियान खाप , दहिया खाप जाखड़ खाप व श्योरान खाप समर्थन मे आई परंतु उनकी भी कुछ नहीं चली और आखिर मे उनको हार मनानी ही पड़ी | इसमे मेरे कहने का मतलब यह हैं की गाँव के समाज मे एक शर्म हैं एकता हैं और लड़ने की क्षमता हैं ये लोग शहरियों की तरह अपने आप को असुरक्षित महसूस नहीं करते मोमबती लेके सड़कों पर नहीं घूमते | शहर मे ना तो आपस की शर्म हैं क्योंकि यहा पड़ोसी पड़ोसी को नहीं जनता तो फिर शर्म कैसी , शर्म आंखो की होती हैं जब पड़ोसी से आँख ही नहीं मिलती तो शर्म क्या होगी | शहर मे आप किसी से झगड़ा करने लग जाओ दूसरा कोई बीच मे नहीं आएगा जबकि देहात मे आप ऐसा करके दिखा दो अंजान भी आपसे भीड़ जाएगा | देहात मे एक कहावत हैं की '' आपा मरे स्वर्ग दिखा करे '' सो जब तक खुद मजबूत नहीं होंगे दूसरा कौन क्या करेगा और यह सरकार कोई आदमी नहीं हैं हम ही सरकार हैं हमारी भी कुछ जिम्मेवारी हैं | सब कुछ सरकार पर थोपना अपनी जिम्मेवारी से भागना हैं |

[AnkurMalik]

अंकुर जी मैं आपकी इस बात से सहमत नहीं हु की अधिकतर रेप केस ग्रामीण क्षेत्र मे होते हैं | असल मे ग्रामीण क्षेत्र मे जीतने रेप केस की खबर मीडिया मे आती हैं उनमे से ज़्यादातर केस झूठे होते हैं | अगर वहा पर कोई ऐसा केस होता भी हैं तो उसके लिए लोग फिर आपस मे मारा मारी पर उतारू हो जाते हैं | हाँ कुछ छोटी जाति के लोगो के साथ ऐसा कुछ होता हैं तो वो लोग फिर बेचारे कोर्ट का सहारा लेते हैं | बड़ी जाति मे ऐसा गिनौना काम बहुत कम सुनने को मिलेगा अगर होगा भी तो फिर उसको वे लोग या तो आपस मे सिर फोड़ कर निपटाते हैं या फिर पंचायत निपटाती हैं | देहात मे 'होनौर के लिए किलिंग ' करते देर नहीं लगाते | आपको भिवानी ज़िले के चरखी गाँव का एक वाक्य बता देता हु 2000-2001 की बात हैं चरखी गाँव मे एक कादियान गोत्र का परिवार बस्ता था | उस परिवार ने अपने पड़ोसी खेत की महिला से बलात्कार कर उसको मार के वहीं खेत मे गाड़ दिया | कुछ दिन बाद लाश मिली सारी कहानी उजागर हुई तो पंचायत ने इस गिनौने अपराध के लिए उस परिवार का गाँव निकाला का फरमान सुनाया | कादियान परिवार इसके लिए हाइ कोर्ट गए और हाइ कोर्ट ने सरकार को इन्हे वापिस गाँव मे बसाने के आदेश दिये | सरकार ने भिवानी डीसी व दादरी एसडीएम को भेजा परंतु चरखी गाँव मे सारी खाप एकत्रित हो गई और माहौल देखते हुए सरकार ने हाथ खड़े कर दिये | उसके बाद उस परिवार ने कोर्ट सरकार से आश छोड़ सर्व खाप के समक्ष गुहार लगाई , उस परिवार के लिए सिर्फ कादियान खाप , दहिया खाप जाखड़ खाप व श्योरान खाप समर्थन मे आई परंतु उनकी भी कुछ नहीं चली और आखिर मे उनको हार मनानी ही पड़ी | इसमे मेरे कहने का मतलब यह हैं की गाँव के समाज मे एक शर्म हैं एकता हैं और लड़ने की क्षमता हैं ये लोग शहरियों की तरह अपने आप को असुरक्षित महसूस नहीं करते मोमबती लेके सड़कों पर नहीं घूमते | शहर मे ना तो आपस की शर्म हैं क्योंकि यहा पड़ोसी पड़ोसी को नहीं जनता तो फिर शर्म कैसी , शर्म आंखो की होती हैं जब पड़ोसी से आँख ही नहीं मिलती तो शर्म क्या होगी | शहर मे आप किसी से झगड़ा करने लग जाओ दूसरा कोई बीच मे नहीं आएगा जबकि देहात मे आप ऐसा करके दिखा दो अंजान भी आपसे भीड़ जाएगा | देहात मे एक कहावत हैं की '' आपा मरे स्वर्ग दिखा करे '' सो जब तक खुद मजबूत नहीं होंगे दूसरा कौन क्या करेगा और यह सरकार कोई आदमी नहीं हैं हम ही सरकार हैं हमारी भी कुछ जिम्मेवारी हैं | सब कुछ सरकार पर थोपना अपनी जिम्मेवारी से भागना हैं |
Sura ji,

Agree with social values inherent in villages. My point was towards marginalised section. Most of the atrocities happens on poor, dalits etc. By and large Haryana is a well off state but when you look at other states such as Bihar, UP, Orrisa you will find different statistics. Crimes are more frequent in slums. Also the difference between poor and rich has shot up in last decade or so. If development is not common then India will continue to face such challanges. More proactive approach is needed by our government to deal with such crisis. Anyway, thanks for sharing information.

Cheers.

[Samarkadian]

I appreciate the fact that you have not added any further to your list - non-sense, ridiculous, rubbish, crap.

Though I can, but I would not prefer to return the compliment/s.

I am sure all of us on this forum are angered with the incident that happened and want very strict action to be taken.

There are some things which the govt. has to do - making and implementing strong laws. There are other things that we as citizens have to take care of through affirmative action. For the sake of refreshing/jogging our memories, I will repeat - Changing the mindset of men (especially the sick animals) and women (especially the so-called liberated ones who feel that liberty only comes with removing clothes in public).

It is time there is some churning in the society. We honestly take a look at the realities in society and take some tough decisions and not hide behind the high walls of hypocrisy and what is supposed to be 'politically correct'.

A major part of this churning has to come from the womenfolk who will have to assert themselves by saying 'We are more than pretty faces and beautiful bodies, there is no skill or capability which we do not possess as compared to men, there is no mountain high enough that men can climb and we cannot'. And in fact the message to item number girls and the ad. world needs to go from the womenfolk -'Stop commoditising us'. It would be highly incorrect to say that if men smoke, we will smoke, if men drink we will drink, etc. In fact, both men and women should aspire for the good things and set examples for the society.

If a few misguided women act cheap, I have no hesitation to call them cheap especially when they do not hesitate to undertake that cheapness and spread it in the society.

Finally, I agree with almost all the reasons given by you for violence against women in society, one of which is lack of moral values. Is dancing to vulgar songs while being half-naked moral? Does it help in any way in spreading moral values?

I would prefer to be the so-called 'politically incorrect' by rather taking the bull by its horns.

Okay lets assume for a moment that such songs, actresses and ad world is banned or controlled. How about huge porn industry? People would still watch what they desire to. It is more psychological/biological urges than social and moral ones and no govt has been able to curb them by now.

[AbhikRana]

Samar, I agree with you when you say that banning cheap show of flesh and gyrating to those cheap and vulgar lyrics is not a foolproof mechanism to stop all the wrongs in society.

Instead of banning, I would expect self restraint and affirmative action from such item number and ad. girls. They instead can focus on their acting skills if in fact they are actresses.

Finally, there can be nothing in this world which can be called foolproof. It cannot be said that tough laws and their implementation would provide a 100 percent guarantee that unfortunate incidents are not repeated. We as responsible citizens and part of this society can make whatever little efforts we can.

In fact, I am appalled by a few fellow JL members who have come to the defence of a few cheap women.

But then I don't blame them, after all there are people who sympathize with terrorists in J&K and the North East saying that these terrorists are fighting for a cause. Also, there are people who address Animals such as Osama as Osama ji. I guess it is fashionable. Let them be!

I stick to what I have said at least till the time these cheap women stop showing their half naked bodies in public.



Okay lets assume for a moment that such songs, actresses and ad world is banned or controlled. How about huge porn industry? People would still watch what they desire to. It is more psychological/biological urges than social and moral ones and no govt has been able to curb them by now.

[AbhikRana]

Who is imposing a dress code? The only thing expected is an UNDRESS code in public.

In response to your point on licence, I would advise you to refer to my previous posts.

Also, I would have appreciated specific responses to the questions put across in previous posts as it would have helped us taking the discussion forward.


Mr Rana,

Agree that vulgarity has to be shunned. but we cannot impose a dress code on woman(plz do not make India Saudi Arabia). Nor does it give a licence to man to molest her if she wears short clothes or dance on the beats wearing short clothes. its a wrong attitude in our society.

[AnkurMalik]

Who is imposing a dress code? The only thing expected is an UNDRESS code in public.

In response to your point on licence, I would advise you to refer to my previous posts.

Also, I would have appreciated specific responses to the questions put across in previous posts as it would have helped us taking the discussion forward.

Mr Rana,

Right from the beginning you started talking about dress. In fact your first post, you have mentioned about mini skirt. You talked about professionalist like Kareena Kapoor and Malika Arora. Its their profession. Acting is their profession. We have a sensor board which counters vulgarity. So your point that professionals like Kareena Kapoor & Malika Arora causing harm is baseless. Time is changing and so is the film industry. You cannot live like this in an isolation. If you think this way, then Indians should also stop watching Hollywood movies. Indians are well versed in english and in this globalized world you cannot live like this. If a person wants to watch a movie, let him/her do so. Its the person wish to decide what to do as long as it does not harm others. So in this age of social media and internet you cannot ban or censor media or freedom of speech. Let individuals decide what they want to do, what they wear. The need of hour is change our mindset and implement law and order effectively.

[AbhikRana]

There is a big dichotomy in what you have said.

In your earlier post, you have put 'lack of moral values' as one of the reasons for sexual violence against women. Then you go on to say that Kareena Kapoor and Malaika Arora are professional actresses.

Can dancing half naked to cheap vulgar numbers actually be called acting?
Can these half naked girls actually be called professionals? If yes, then I am afraid a lot of others including prostitutes and drug traffickers would have to be included in that category because it is their profession and hence they are professionals.
How are these half naked girls helping in safeguarding and building on the moral values of society?

As far as the mini-skirt reference is concerned, I would advise you to read the entire paragraph and try getting the context in which it was mentioned.

After all the ink that I have used (hope not wasted) in the posts here, what comes out glaringly is the difference between dressing and undressing in public. I would advise you to just go through my previous posts and you will see the difference.

Also, thanks for using the normal black font colour. It looks relatively better.


Mr Rana,

Right from the beginning you started talking about dress. In fact your first post, you have mentioned about mini skirt. You talked about professionalist like Kareena Kapoor and Malika Arora. Its their profession. Acting is their profession. We have a sensor board which counters vulgarity. So your point that professionals like Kareena Kapoor & Malika Arora is baseless. Time is changing and so is the film industry. You cannot live like this in an isolation. If you think this way, then Indians should also stop watching Hollywood movies. Indians are well versed in english and in this globalized world you cannot live like this. If a person wants to watch a movie, let him/her do so. Its the person wish to decide what to do as long as it does not harm others. So in this age of social media and internet you cannot ban or censor media or freedom of speech. Let individuals decide what they want to do, what they wear. The need of hour is change our mindset and implement law and order effectively.

[AnkurMalik]

There is a big dichotomy in what you have said.

In your earlier post, you have put 'lack of moral values' as one of the reasons for sexual violence against women. Then you go on to say that Kareena Kapoor and Malaika Arora are professional actresses.

Can dancing half naked to cheap vulgar numbers actually be called acting?
Can these half naked girls actually be called professionals? If yes, then I am afraid a lot of others including prostitutes and drug traffickers would have to be included in that category because it is their profession and hence they are professionals.
How are these half naked girls helping in safeguarding and building on the moral values of society?

As far as the mini-skirt reference is concerned, I would advise you to read the entire paragraph and try getting the context in which it was mentioned.

After all the ink that I have used (hope not wasted) in the posts here, what comes out glaringly is the difference between dressing and undressing in public. I would advise you to just go through my previous posts and you will see the difference.

Also, thanks for using the normal black font colour. It looks relatively better.
Mr Rana,

Moral values mean respecting woman. No biases between a boy and girl. Now coming to the point of professionalist Kareena Kapoor and Malika Arora. Where have you seen them half naked. As I said in my previous post, we have a sensor board which counter vulgarity. So it refutes your argument that actress Kareena Kapoor or Malika Arora are icon of vulgarity. Vulgar material is regulated by government. And in my previous post, I have also mentioned about freedom to live, wear etc. In this globalised world, India cannot live like North Korea. Let individuals decide what they want to do, what they want to wear and how to live.

[AbhikRana]

I agree that 'moral values' includes lack of bias or prejudice when it comes to boys and girls. But it would be great disservice and threat to the society if we restrict the meaning of 'moral values' to a very narrow context as outlined by you. I would say that 'moral values' is a system of norms which helps our societies function in an orderly and smooth manner as against a chaotic and anarchic society.

A society like a family will cease to exist if everyone says I will do what I please and the rest go to hell and I don't care. Tomorrow, the drug lords might say we are professional traders and we will carry on our trade, whether you like it or not. A chemical industrialist might say I will carry on with my industry whether it pollutes the air or water or not, I don't care. For there to be order and peace, there need to be adjustments and people should honestly respect those adjustments. Some of the adjustments might inconvenience me, but then at the same time, someone else making an adjustment is helping me live in a peaceful and orderly society.

Kareena and Malaika have full freedom to dress as they want. But is it too much for the society to ask from them NOT to undress in public? (again the right to dress and right to undress difference) And what inconvenience would it cause to them if they do not remove their clothes?

If all the govt. agencies including censor board were carrying on their jobs honestly, unfortunate incidents would have dipped to an all time low.

As to when I have seen them half naked, I would refrain from posting youtube links on this thread. Instead, I would advise you to do a search on youtube and you will see countless such videos by them and others like them.




Mr Rana,

Moral values mean respecting woman. No biases between a boy and girl. Now coming to the point of professionalist Kareena Kapoor and Malika Arora. Where have you seen them half naked. As I said in my previous post, we have a sensor board which counter vulgarity. So it refutes your argument that actress Kareena Kapoor or Malika Arora are icon of vulgarity. Vulgar material is regulated by government. And in my previous post, I have also mentioned about freedom to live, wear etc. In this globalised world, India cannot live like North Korea. Let individuals decide what they want to do, what they want to wear and how to live.

[rekhasmriti]

Is dancing half naked to cheap and vulgar songs moral? Does it help spread moral values?


Moral Values , how would u define moral ?
Is lying moral ? No , we all do .
Is abusing moral ? No, we all do .
Defining moral is very subjective . For some boozing is against moral value for some its not.So shall we or shall we not.
Same with smoking .


U were saying its a bad influence on kids , that is why for every such movie they rate PG or UA.
Regarding TV , for that parental gyan should be there ----they need to check what their kids are watching n what not.


Lemme give u one eg : Decades back , in some case convicted was given death sentence " Hang till death " .
Every news channel was showing how n all . Some kid did what they have shown n sad......worst happened.


Who would u blame , ban all News channels . No proper parental guidance .
Do we let our kids watch porn no , why - coz we know they are kids and they do not understand rather would mistook in wrong way.


So half naked or whatever dancing is okay , One is adult -they know what to do , how to interpret n percieve such stuff.


We all watch that stuff, how many of us do eveteasing or such crimes ? So its not what they show n how ,
its how we percieve n take it .


Why ----u always pick point of Drugs . They are illegal n will remain illegal . Like killing -stealing-forgery-frauds n all.
All these things not connected to show-biz.


Again , I stick to my point . Its not what n how they show - its how we take it .

[upendersingh]

करीना कपूर और मलाइका अरोड़ा के नाचने से पुरुषों को बलात्कार करने की प्रेरणा मिलती हो या न मिलती हो, लेकिन इतना तय है कि लड़कियों को नाचने की प्रेरणा जरूर मिलती है। वे ऐसा सोचने लगती हैं कि जब ये नाचकर इतनी सुखी-संपन्न हैं तो असली जिंदगी तो यही है।

[rohittewatia]

Bollywood does influences the thinking of the masses. All these Ekta Kapoor Crap Soaps going on the TV where multiple relations, dramas n what not. The number of Divorce cases has increased drastically in the Last Decade. There was a time when these divorces was virtually unthought of. Now, this thing is getting common in Jats too. Tolerance is a virtue & has stopped existing in both the man as well as the woman. Pehle agar aisi koi baat hoti thieh, ghar key badhe budhe donon ko baitha kar samjha deyte thieh. Problem solved. Nowadays, seedha divorce kah case file karo.

The tragedy is people nowadays maintain a unique dichotomy: Women themselves are not ready for the equality. Equality means not just about rights, but sharing responsibilities also. The Indian society is evolving, but has not yet evolved fully to accept the big change. Wearing small clothes does not gives the license for these men to rape women. But then, it is about common sense too. They can & should wear what they want too, but think about safety first. Not all rapes can be stopped, but atleast some can be averted by using common sense.

People keep on waiting for such examples to happen n then take candles to show solidarity. Abh fir soh jayegi junta kuch dinon men, Sabh bhool jayenge. Atleast let the poor soul rest in peace. Media per kuch kaam hi naheen hai...uss ladki ko Damini ka naam dey diya. Unke liye sirf aik masala news hai. The truth is these people sell emotions to the common man.

[AbhikRana]

FIR filed against the so-called sensational singer and heartthrob of a segment of college goers - Happy Singh for filthy lyrics in his songs especially his song 'I am a rapist'.

I hope the so-called people defending Kareena and Malaika will come to his rescue and defense as well. After all, lyrics of his song are as filthy as that of songs on which Kareena and Malaika remove their clothes.

Heights of hypocrisy among a section of society even on Jatland. Appalling! They are defending the indefensible!

Watch the debate on Times Now on Happy Singh regarding the level of filth and dirt that has percolated in our society through the RESPECTABLE celebrities from the glamour world.

[rekhasmriti]

Off Topic----same song got 1 million hits in 80 hrs
( I m unaware of his controversy , abhi kissi ne bataya)

So shall we launch complaint against those 1 million people , partners in crime----

PS : not defending any one , koi mere sage wala nahi hai , just sharing my view .

[bsbana]

Is dancing half naked to cheap and vulgar songs moral? Does it help spread moral values?

First question should be asked "is morality value of modern society ?" No. Values of modern society are achievement, conspicuous consumption, materialism, getting ahead of your neighbor, making more and more money, hedonism(getting as much pleasure as possible), showing fake personalities,etc. When people talk in friend circle, they do ask our friends how much money their bureaucrat/politician fathers are making. I was wondering how many of those who were protesting against corruption, will not indulge in corruption if they get a chance. Corruption is in our culture. Where does politician or bureaucrat come from ? Society. So obviously, it represent value system of our society.
Last time lot of people were rallying against corruption, have we made any progress in that direction ? No. I think a substantial number of people do get bored from their regular urban life and go out in street whenever they get chances. I asked one of my friend about corruption, he said yaar, there is limit of corruption, these politician should not cross limit. It's okay to do corruption in a limit. Who define limits ? You are middle class person, your limit will obviously be lower than that of higher class and higher than that of lower class.
Now people are rallying against rapes, do you think it will make any difference ? I read an article in Hindu that police system needs autonomy from politicians so that they can deal it with effectively. Do you trust police more than politician ? A politician can be corrupt as well as honest, same is true about bureaucrats.
An upper-middle class Indian who is alienated from his work in MNCs, does find a meaning in his life when he talks about social reform, progress of society and all these big things but same upper-middle class Indian is not aware about reality of grass-root level. He is not even aware about grass-root level reality of west. You need to see beyond bollywood and hollywood to know realities of world.
Another section of men worry that stringent rule can be misused by women, whom they have illegitimate(again subjective) relationship with. Some intellectuals think that perception toward women should be changed and stringent rules will not be much helpful. Question is how will you change perception. You can't change perception of people by talking in TV show and writing blog in some English news paper when whole value system runs contrary to it. Moreover these liberal thekedar of society have different value system and conservative thekedar of society have different value system. So debates have become a point scoring game.
I do think that media is a factor in these rape crimes but it produces largely what is demanded by society. There are semi-literate morons in society who develops hatred toward female gender, one because of their deprivation(under-achiever in life, not having girlfriend,etc) and second because westernized girls do look upon these strata of people with contempt. When they see girls with their boyfriends, their sense of deprivation gets heightened. They feel that they are losers in this world. See not only they raped that girl but also damaged her intestine. This rape reminds me of a heinous rape case that happened in Japan which was way more disturbing than this case. Similar things are happening in west with more intensity.

[AbhikRana]

What we are doing is what is generally called beating around the bush.

We know that Happy Singh is the perpetrator of vulgarity and you are asking for complaint against 1 million people who are lapping it up.

we know that the lyrics and half naked dances of Malaika and Kareena are equally vulgar and cheap.

Instead of getting to the root cause of this malaise, we are obfuscating the discussion by talking of the 1 million people. Let's not justify the wrongs done by cheap people like Happy, Malaika and Kareena. Their acts are equally vulgar and cheap.

If you still want to defend them, please go ahead and do so. I would not be surprised if we see some protests happening against the arrest of Happy Singh.


Off Topic----same song got 1 million hits in 80 hrs
( I m unaware of his controversy , abhi kissi ne bataya)

So shall we launch complaint against those 1 million people , partners in crime----

PS : not defending any one , koi mere sage wala nahi hai , just sharing my view .

[rohittewatia]

Har cheez bikti hai...Desh Mere. Issey jyada Unnati aur kya hoyegi? Incident koi bhi tool pakde, Ussih ko seedhi bana kar saman bechna shuru kar deyte haiin. Honey Singh key saath 1 million logon per bhi Case Lagao. It is not freedom of expression instead a mockery of the whole Social Values which we claim to represent n yet download the song enjoying it.

[AnkurMalik]

A society like a family will cease to exist if everyone says I will do what I please and the rest go to hell and I don't care. Tomorrow, the drug lords might say we are professional traders and we will carry on our trade, whether you like it or not. A chemical industrialist might say I will carry on with my industry whether it pollutes the air or water or not, I don't care. For there to be order and peace, there need to be adjustments and people should honestly respect those adjustments. Some of the adjustments might inconvenience me, but then at the same time, someone else making an adjustment is helping me live in a peaceful and orderly society.

Kareena and Malaika have full freedom to dress as they want. But is it too much for the society to ask from them NOT to undress in public? (again the right to dress and right to undress difference) And what inconvenience would it cause to them if they do not remove their clothes?



Dear,

Your argument and example is incorrect. Plz understand diff between personal life and a profession. Don't mix an illegal professional with personal life. In my personal life i can do anything i want do as long as it is not illegal. so don't compare like this.

Kareena Kapoor is an actress. I haven't seen her half naked. Don;t spread false rumours. Our censor board will never allow vulgarity.

[AnkurMalik]

करीना कपूर और मलाइका अरोड़ा के नाचने से पुरुषों को बलात्कार करने की प्रेरणा मिलती हो या न मिलती हो, लेकिन इतना तय है कि लड़कियों को नाचने की प्रेरणा जरूर मिलती है। वे ऐसा सोचने लगती हैं कि जब ये नाचकर इतनी सुखी-संपन्न हैं तो असली जिंदगी तो यही है।

Dude,

Get your head right. What is wrong in learning dancing. Plz stop thinking like that.

[deependra]

Dear,

Kareena Kapoor is an actress. I haven't seen her half naked. Don;t spread false rumours. Our censor board will never allow vulgarity.

Have you really watched Kareena Kapoor's movies? :)

[AnkurMalik]

Have you really watched Kareena Kapoor's movies? :)

Yes dear. Watched her first movie; Refugee and latest is Talaash! Superb acting. :)

[AnkurMalik]

Have you really watched Kareena Kapoor's movies? :)
Do you watch Hollywood movies?

[deependra]

Do you watch Hollywood movies?
I do, but asked you about Kareena's movies because I have seen her in many movies where she can be termed half naked. Kambakhat Ishq will be one of them to cite an example.

[AnkurMalik]

I do, but asked you about Kareena's movies because I have seen her in many movies where she can be termed half naked. Kambakhat Ishq will be one of them to cite an example.
If u watch hollywood movies thn u shld nt hv problems wth bollywood movies. in my previous posts i also mentioned about censor board. if vulagarity shown in hindi movies then u can complain about it. Censor board follows laws and regulation. if people of the country want to change the laws and regulations they can appeal to the government of India. But plz stop maligning actresses. they are professionalist and working in the ambit of rule and regulations.

thank u

[AnkurMalik]

Let's not justify the wrongs done by cheap people like Malaika and Kareena.
Can you stop using "Cheap" word. You have no right to malign these professionals. Let the law of country decide, if the vulgarity is shown. dont ju,mp to conclusons. plz

[Samarkadian]

http://in.omg.yahoo.com/photos/we-will-not-forget-you-slideshow/

Have a look. So called cheap are not that 'cheap'.

[rajpaldular]

पहले हनी सिंह के रैप पर थिरकीं शीला, अब बोली अश्लील
===============================
नई दिल्ली। जहां एक दिन पहले पॉप सिंगर हनी सिंह पर मैं हूं बलात्कारी गाने को लेकर मुकदमा दर्ज हुआ है वहीं हनी सिंह के साथ मुख्यमंत्री शीला दीक्षित के एक वीडियो ने और सनसनी फैला दी है। साल 2012 में अंतरराष्ट्रीय वरिष्ठ नागरिकता दिवस के अवसर पर मुख्यमंत्री और गायक हनी सिंह स्टेज पर एक ही गाने में थिरकते हुए नजर आएं। यू ट्यूब पर इस गाने के अपलोड होने के बाद से मुख्यमंत्री विवादों के घेरे में आ गई हैं, क्योंकि बीते दिनों मुख्यमंत्री ने हनी सिंह के गानों में अश्लील शब्दों के प्रयोग पर आपत्ति जताई थी।

यू ट्यूब पर इस गाने के अपलोडिंग के बाद से लोगों का गुस्सा और सिर चढ़कर बोलने लगा है। दिल्ली में हुए गैंगरेप मामले के बाद से हनी सिंह पर एक अश्लील गाना गाने और कथित तौर पर उसे लिखने को लेकर केस एफआईआर भी दर्ज हो चुकी है।

हालांकि इस आपत्तिजनक वीडियो पर मुख्यमंत्री की ओर से कोई भी प्रतिक्रिया अब तक सामने नहीं आई है। लोगों ने इस वीडियो को लेकर सोशल नेटवर्किग साइट पर मोर्चा खोल दिया है। इस वीडियो में मुख्यमंत्री के अलावा दिल्ली सरकार की एक और मंत्री किरण वालिया भी नजर आ रही हैं।

गौरतलब है कि हनी सिंह ने भी अपनी सफाई में कहा है कि उन्होंने यह गाना नहीं लिखा है। इन सब के बाद न्यू ईयर ईव पर गुड़गांव में होने वाले हनी सिंह के सभी कार्यक्रम रद्द कर दिए गए हैं।




http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s480x480/531444_4695114649304_1790310688_n.jpg

[deependra]

If u watch hollywood movies thn u shld nt hv problems wth bollywood movies. in my previous posts i also mentioned about censor board. if vulagarity shown in hindi movies then u can complain about it. Censor board follows laws and regulation. if people of the country want to change the laws and regulations they can appeal to the government of India. But plz stop maligning actresses. they are professionalist and working in the ambit of rule and regulations.

thank u

This was just in response of your statement that you haven't seen her half naked in any of the movies and if you don't call it vulgar then I won't comment further on this thread.

[cooljat]

.

Bhai Yahoo News ghanni pada kare hai tu to.. :)


http://in.omg.yahoo.com/photos/we-will-not-forget-you-slideshow/

Have a look. So called cheap are not that 'cheap'.

[cooljat]

.

I fully endorse Abhik Bhaisaab's view point here but at the same time a bit disappointed with few female folks replies here as well. I wonder how can they advocate vulgarity and nudity in the name of profession, work and entertainment. A very simple question to them, if they find it very normal and liberal .. could you watch all these crap cheaps songs n' shows with your family specially elders?

Our society is going thro' dangerous transition phase .. now a days hardly any place for family values, morals and ethics .. everything is being accepted in name of modern, liberal outlook. Look at the various tv advertisements, news paper ads and online news sites .. all are full of filthy vulgar stuff and that's really bad.

This is a humble request to female folks and other liberal souls that please don't encourage such vulgarity in general. It's not expression of freedom or liberal attitude but sick and cheap show off.

Thanks!

Cheers
Jit

[vikasJAT]

bhai ye andolan kissi ka chalayaa huaa nahi thaa.....i know aap aise baat kyo bol rahe ho coz aap congress ke supporter ho....n congress jaise toochi sarkar n uske tooche leaders ko to beech sadak mai goli marr deni chahiye......congress ke neta azfal guru n osama bin laden jaise islamic teroorist ke naam ke aaagee to ji lagatee hai n apne desh ke logo ki jinhone desh ke liye bahut kuch kiya unko izzat nahi dete.......itna bada incident ho gaya rape walaa tab bhi yee saale andolan karne walo ko galat bata rahe hai.......inkii maa behno betiyon ka bhi rape hona chahiye tab itne pata chalega ki rape sirf eek ladki na nahi uski whole family ka hota hai.....soo plzz in congressioo ki itni baatein n care mat kiya karo

Sandeep yaha supporter wali baat nahi hai....lekin jo points maine aapki post me highlight kiye hain unse me sehmat hoon.
ab poora case police k samne hai, sare saboot, gavah b unke pass hai, fir police aur ye government itni der kyu laga rahi hai koi b decision lene me??????
ye case delhi me hua, uske baad waha security b badha di gayi lekin fir b waha rape aur murder k case samne aa rahe hain....iska kya matlab nikale ki apni security me kami hai ya ye soche ki police wale paise khane k liye khade hain.

[AbhikRana]

Though any discussion/debate would have two sides to it - 'for' and 'against', I was not sure about the level of response on the 'against' aspect of it. In fact, I am surprised with the level of fan following of Kareena and Malaika.

When men are ready for tougher laws which might EVEN be misused against the innocent, I find it strange that a few cheap women are not ready to stop removing their clothes in public.

One false allegation of misbehaviour by any woman against a man can destroy his entire life. It would start with loss of his job, adding a criminal tag to him which would ensure that he gets no job in future. Plus the jail term and all the legal hassles - acquittal later on or not would be totally inconsequential as his entire life would have been damned by then.

Despite the proposed changes being so draconian, I still support them because I strongly feel that the dignity of a woman is above everything else, even if it causes some collateral damage to the innocent men falsely implicated on charges of misbehaviour. And here we have a few women who cannot JUST refrain from removing clothes in public.

Someone said it is the parents' job to police the children so that they are not influenced by these half-naked women. Where all do you expect the parents to be present with the children and put hands over their eyes and ears???? The moment you step out of the house, you have posters and billboards of these cheap people like Honey, Kareena, Malaika. I do hope people might have seen the posters of Jism 2.

It is so easy to expect everything from others including the govt., but when it comes to self restraint and decency it is too much to ask for and conform to. Equally shameful as the sick animals.

[vvk1987]

मुझे नही लगता की आपको इन लोगों की भाषा से कोई समस्या है(ये अङ्ग्रेज़ी मे बात एसलिए भी करते है क्यूंकी अकादेमिक्स की भाषा अङ्ग्रेज़ी है, एन समस्याओं का विश्लेषण और शब्दावली अङ्ग्रेज़ी मे बेहतर ह या कहें की हिन्दी मे शब्दावली है ही नही बहुत जगह पर, ये समस्या इन विषयों की ही है।) असल मे मेरे अनुसार आपको समस्या इनकी जीवन शैली से है। जहां पूरुष महंगी दारू पी सकते हैं ये महिलाएं भी पी सकती हैं , सभ्यता और संस्कृति की सीमाएं हम महिलाऊ पर ही क्यू लागू होती है?सवाल ये नही है की वो दिन मे सोती हैं या रात मे दारू पिती है।न समस्या करीना के नाचने मे है। आप ही मे से कितने जने हैं जो साफ सुथरी फिल्म देखने जाते हो? ये इंडस्ट्री चल ही इसी बात पे चलती है की जो देखा जाएगा वही और परोसा जाएगा।

सुधार खुद मे करो बिना किसी दूसरे को सुधारने के लिए कहकर(ये बात दोनों महिला और पूरुषों पर समान रूप से लागू होती है)

एक और बात अगर महिला रात मे बाहर घूम भी रही है तो इसका मतलब ये नही है की वो अपने बलात्कार के लिए किसी को आमंत्रित कर रही है रही है

नीलम जी, ऐसी बात नहीं है कि हिंदी भाषा में इस विषय पर विश्लेष्ण करने के लिए उपयुक्त शब्दावली या अलंकरण नहीं है I भाषा तो केवल एक संकेत है जो मानवीय भावनाओं, अनुभूतियों और इच्छाओं को इंगित करती है I क्या मुंशी प्रेमचंद ने विभिन्न मानवीय पहलूओं और सामाजिक समस्सयाओं को हिंदी भाषा के माध्यम से प्रभावशाली ढंग से मानस पटल पर नहीं उतारा था I उनके साहित्य को गोर्की और शेक्सपियर की रचनाओं से कम नहीं आँका जा सकता I क्या बलात्कार जैसे जघन्य अपराधों को शोभा डे की अलंकृत अंग्रेजी के बिना दूसरी भाषाओँ या बोली (जैसे हरियाणवी इत्यादि) में चर्चित करना असंभव है I

खैर यह रही एक बात I अब अगर विषय की बात करें तो जाहिर तौर पर करीना कपूर, मलिका सहरावत और मलायका अरोड़ा जैसी महिलाओं के के अंग प्रदर्शन या commodification से लोगों के दिमाग में प्रदूषण का स्तर अवश्य बढ़ता है I बिकने को तो हिन्दुस्तान में बहुत कुछ बिक सकता है, लेकिन हर आसानी से बिकने वाली चीज़ के क्रय-विक्रय को खुला नहीं छोड़ा जा सकता I इस तर्क के अनुसार तो देह व्यापार की भी खुली छूट होनी चाहिए I पर उसके दुष्प्रभाव से समाज की व्यवस्था चरमरा जायेगी I मनोरंजन और कला के नाम पर हर बेहूदगी को सिर्फ इसीलिये बर्दाश्त नहीं किया जा सकता कि टीवी टॉक-शो में महिलाओं की स्वतंत्रता का ढोल पीटने वाले संभ्रांत वर्ग के दो चार लोग इसकी हिमायत कर रहे हैं, (जो अक्सर टीवी चैनल वालों के दोस्त ही होते हैं ). महिला एम्पावरमेंट और लैंगिक समानता के नाम पर महिलाओं को अश्लीलता फैलाने का अधिकार नहीं दिया जाना चाहिए I इसी प्रकार सिनेमा में पुरुष कारकूनों को भी जिस्म प्रदर्शन की खुली छूट नहीं होनी चाहिए I कहीं एक रेखा तो खींचनी पड़ेगी I माना सेक्स सम्बन्धी अधिकांश अपराधों में पुरुष ही जिम्मेदार होते हैं, परन्तु कुछ मर्यादा और आचरण-सीमा महिलाओं के लिए भी निर्धारित करनी पड़ेगी I वैसे भी हमारे समाज में value system सब के लिए एक जैसा नहीं हो सकता I शोभा डे और Hugh Hefner (of Playboy) का वैल्यू सिस्टम हमारे मध्य वर्गीय समाज (खासकर देहात) के वैल्यू सिस्टम से थोडा हट के है I क्योंकि Hefner ने 86 साल की उम्र में इस नए साल पर एक 26 साल की लडकी से शादी की है I अब आप बताएं क्या इस 26 साल की लड़की ने अपने दादा जी की उम्र वाले Hefnar की जवानी पर लट्टू हो कर शादी की है I नहीं, शायद उसके वैभव और बेशुमार दौलत से की है I क्या इस प्रकार के वैल्यू सिस्टम को आप अपने गाँव में पनपने देने की पक्षधर होंगी ? हरगिज़ नहीं I इसलिए हम समाज में फैली बुराइयों की जिम्मेवारी से महिलाओं को भी बरी नहीं कर सकते I क्योंकि बहुत सारी महिलायें भी सिनेमा जगत और संपन्न वर्ग की चका-चौंध से प्रभावित होकर अपनी मान मर्यादा का सौदा करने से गुरेज़ नहीं करती, परन्तु उनके तौर तरीके हमारे तथाकथिक सभ्य, प्रगतिशील और सुसंस्कृत वर्ग के लेखकों और बुद्दिजीवियों को सभ्यता का चरमोत्कर्ष नज़र आता है I माफ़ करना ये वैल्यू सिस्टम और इस प्रकार की महिला एम्पावरमेंट कुछ अटपटा सा लग रहा है I

[desijat]

Bollywood is entertainment and should be taken as one. The same bollywood also gave you good cinema, like everything else beauty lies in the eyes of beholder.

But just to share a few statics on India Vs. the World

A woman is raped in Delhi every 14 hours. That equates to 625 a year. Yet in England and Wales, which has a population about 3.5 times that of Delhi, we find a figure for recorded rapes of women that is proportionately four times larger: 9,509.

In the US only 24% of alleged rapes even result in an arrest, never mind a conviction.

Amnesty International conducted a poll in the United Kingdom a few years ago. Only four per cent of respondents thought that the number of women raped each year exceeded 10,000. But according to the Government’s Action Plan on Violence Against Women and Girls, 80,000 women are raped a year, and 400,000 women are sexually assaulted. It is a pandemic of violence against women that – given its scale – is not discussed nearly enough.

Now those woman who ask INDIAN men to have proper thinking please read: The Amnesty poll found that a third of Britons believed a woman acting flirtatiously was partly or completely to blame for being raped, while over a quarter found women who were wearing revealing clothes or were drunk shared responsibility.

Britain has the lowest conviction rate of 33 European countries: it’s a shockingly pathetic 6.5 per cent.



Point is, India is still way better than west which some of us think should be role model. We of course need to stand up and do more but do it responsibly, not emotionally

[desijat]

Malaika, Kareena may be cheap, vulgar and what not but no one on this thread mentioned even once about actors like Salman Khan, Sanjay Dutt, Emran Hashmi who spread the message of being macho, taking off shirts for nothing, fighting for women or flirting like no one's business?

Isnt this our hypocrite way to live life?

Like I said before, people get choices and what should they consume and what not should be left for them to choose.

[kapdal]

.

I fully endorse Abhik Bhaisaab's view point here but at the same time a bit disappointed with few female folks replies here as well. I wonder how can they advocate vulgarity and nudity in the name of profession, work and entertainment. A very simple question to them, if they find it very normal and liberal .. could you watch all these crap cheaps songs n' shows with your family specially elders?

Our society is going thro' dangerous transition phase .. now a days hardly any place for family values, morals and ethics .. everything is being accepted in name of modern, liberal outlook. Look at the various tv advertisements, news paper ads and online news sites .. all are full of filthy vulgar stuff and that's really bad.

This is a humble request to female folks and other liberal souls that please don't encourage such vulgarity in general. It's not expression of freedom or liberal attitude but sick and cheap show off.

Thanks!

Cheers
Jit

Jit - if you don't mind, can I put your question back to you more generally? Would you do all that you do in your life (say on your own or with your friends) in front of family, specially elders? If not, what sort of yardstick is this?

[kapdal]

I haven't checked the whole thread, but I wonder if someone has posted what "Damini" was wearing or why she was out in the night or how exactly she behaved. I am surprised we don't have a thread - "Damini equally responsible for the death of Damini".

[swaich]

I haven't checked the whole thread, but I wonder if someone has posted what "Damini" was wearing or why she was out in the night or how exactly she behaved. I am surprised we don't have a thread - "Damini equally responsible for the death of Damini".

Well, not explicitly, but somebody did mention on another thread, she was late at night out with a male friend.

[AnkurMalik]

पहले हनी सिंह के रैप पर थिरकीं शीला, अब बोली अश्लील
===============================
नई दिल्ली। जहां एक दिन पहले पॉप सिंगर हनी सिंह पर मैं हूं बलात्कारी गाने को लेकर मुकदमा दर्ज हुआ है वहीं हनी सिंह के साथ मुख्यमंत्री शीला दीक्षित के एक वीडियो ने और सनसनी फैला दी है। साल 2012 में अंतरराष्ट्रीय वरिष्ठ नागरिकता दिवस के अवसर पर मुख्यमंत्री और गायक हनी सिंह स्टेज पर एक ही गाने में थिरकते हुए नजर आएं। यू ट्यूब पर इस गाने के अपलोड होने के बाद से मुख्यमंत्री विवादों के घेरे में आ गई हैं, क्योंकि बीते दिनों मुख्यमंत्री ने हनी सिंह के गानों में अश्लील शब्दों के प्रयोग पर आपत्ति जताई थी।

यू ट्यूब पर इस गाने के अपलोडिंग के बाद से लोगों का गुस्सा और सिर चढ़कर बोलने लगा है। दिल्ली में हुए गैंगरेप मामले के बाद से हनी सिंह पर एक अश्लील गाना गाने और कथित तौर पर उसे लिखने को लेकर केस एफआईआर भी दर्ज हो चुकी है।

हालांकि इस आपत्तिजनक वीडियो पर मुख्यमंत्री की ओर से कोई भी प्रतिक्रिया अब तक सामने नहीं आई है। लोगों ने इस वीडियो को लेकर सोशल नेटवर्किग साइट पर मोर्चा खोल दिया है। इस वीडियो में मुख्यमंत्री के अलावा दिल्ली सरकार की एक और मंत्री किरण वालिया भी नजर आ रही हैं।

गौरतलब है कि हनी सिंह ने भी अपनी सफाई में कहा है कि उन्होंने यह गाना नहीं लिखा है। इन सब के बाद न्यू ईयर ईव पर गुड़गांव में होने वाले हनी सिंह के सभी कार्यक्रम रद्द कर दिए गए हैं।




http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s480x480/531444_4695114649304_1790310688_n.jpg
Can you stop spreading false rumours and misleading people.

a.) Shiela Dikshit ji shared the stage with Honey Singh in October last year. Not recently.

b.) As far as vulgar song is concerned, the matter is with court. There could be a false case on Honey Singh by some people who don;t like him. so please wait for the verdict and than come to conclusion.

Thanks,

[VPannu]

Honey Singh ke upar case kiya hai to Sunny Leone ke upar bhi thok do ek case. Agar Honey Singh ashleel gaane gaata hai to Sunny bhi ashleel video banaati hai/thi.

[AnkurMalik]

This was just in response of your statement that you haven't seen her half naked in any of the movies and if you don't call it vulgar then I won't comment further on this thread.
Dear,

film was approved by censor board. so there is no vulgarity as per Indian rules and regulations. and also if we think that way then we must ban internet, hollywood movies as well. so plz think again.

thanks

[AnkurMalik]

http://in.omg.yahoo.com/photos/we-will-not-forget-you-slideshow/

Have a look. So called cheap are not that 'cheap'.

Thanks friend for sharing news and open eyes of fellow members.

thank u again

[AnkurMalik]

.

I fully endorse Abhik Bhaisaab's view point here but at the same time a bit disappointed with few female folks replies here as well. I wonder how can they advocate vulgarity and nudity in the name of profession, work and entertainment. A very simple question to them, if they find it very normal and liberal .. could you watch all these crap cheaps songs n' shows with your family specially elders?

Our society is going thro' dangerous transition phase .. now a days hardly any place for family values, morals and ethics .. everything is being accepted in name of modern, liberal outlook. Look at the various tv advertisements, news paper ads and online news sites .. all are full of filthy vulgar stuff and that's really bad.

This is a humble request to female folks and other liberal souls that please don't encourage such vulgarity in general. It's not expression of freedom or liberal attitude but sick and cheap show off.

Thanks!

Cheers
Jit

dear,

though i can understand ur message and feeling regarding the change in society. but i have not seen one comment on changing man's thinking abt woman. why everything is being imposed on woman. from dress to where she goes, what she does; come on yar,,,don;t be tht skeptical.. plz also suggest how man should change.

[AnkurMalik]

Though any discussion/debate would have two sides to it - 'for' and 'against', I was not sure about the level of response on the 'against' aspect of it. In fact, I am surprised with the level of fan following of Kareena and Malaika.

When men are ready for tougher laws which might EVEN be misused against the innocent, I find it strange that a few cheap women are not ready to stop removing their clothes in public.

One false allegation of misbehaviour by any woman against a man can destroy his entire life. It would start with loss of his job, adding a criminal tag to him which would ensure that he gets no job in future. Plus the jail term and all the legal hassles - acquittal later on or not would be totally inconsequential as his entire life would have been damned by then.

Despite the proposed changes being so draconian, I still support them because I strongly feel that the dignity of a woman is above everything else, even if it causes some collateral damage to the innocent men falsely implicated on charges of misbehaviour. And here we have a few women who cannot JUST refrain from removing clothes in public.

Someone said it is the parents' job to police the children so that they are not influenced by these half-naked women. Where all do you expect the parents to be present with the children and put hands over their eyes and ears???? The moment you step out of the house, you have posters and billboards of these cheap people like Honey, Kareena, Malaika. I do hope people might have seen the posters of Jism 2.

It is so easy to expect everything from others including the govt., but when it comes to self restraint and decency it is too much to ask for and conform to. Equally shameful as the sick animals.
my dear friend,

movies u r talking abt are being allowed by indian censor board. so the movie stick to the rule & regulation. also plz comment on ; how man shld change. u hv talked enough abt woman(indirectly). what woman shld wear, wht woman should do etc. but plz also comment on man thinking and attitude(which is retarded and sick).

thnk u

[AnkurMalik]

Malaika, Kareena may be cheap, vulgar and what not but no one on this thread mentioned even once about actors like Salman Khan, Sanjay Dutt, Emran Hashmi who spread the message of being macho, taking off shirts for nothing, fighting for women or flirting like no one's business?

Isnt this our hypocrite way to live life?

Like I said before, people get choices and what should they consume and what not should be left for them to choose.
well said bro, ta

[AnkurMalik]

Malaika, Kareena may be cheap, vulgar and what not but no one on this thread mentioned even once about actors like Salman Khan, Sanjay Dutt, Emran Hashmi who spread the message of being macho, taking off shirts for nothing, fighting for women or flirting like no one's business?

Isnt this our hypocrite way to live life?

Like I said before, people get choices and what should they consume and what not should be left for them to choose.
dear agree wiht ur msg. thks

[AnkurMalik]

Jit - if you don't mind, can I put your question back to you more generally? Would you do all that you do in your life (say on your own or with your friends) in front of family, specially elders? If not, what sort of yardstick is this?
yes dear, i do nt knw why there r dble standards. let him reply and then we come to knw.
thanks

[sanjeev1984]

aise sare mansa ke upar case thook ke jail mai daal doge ko fer election koun ladega???


Honey Singh ke upar case kiya hai to Sunny Leone ke upar bhi thok do ek case. Agar Honey Singh ashleel gaane gaata hai to Sunny bhi ashleel video banaati hai/thi.

[AnkurMalik]

lo yar ek gana sun lo honey singh ka.discussion nu thanda kar dita si:

Gabru - J Star ft Yo Yo Honey Singh Official Song HD - International Villag
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1wK0r51ARs

[AnkurMalik]

ik aur Honey Singh da ganna..wada hi wadiya veeree...



dushman aage sish jhukake khadya ni karde..

jatt soorme kadde gulami ni kardee (Jai Jatt)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82Bpj8BNOuQ

[cooljat]

It's not a yardstick or like that. And you're comparing two entirely different aspects here. Of course, I won't do the things which are to be done privately or with friends, in front of family like Drinking, using swear words but there're things which I neither do nor appreciate like Vulgarity, Sleaziness, cheapness etc no matter if it's related to men or women. Quality of TV show, advertisements, songs and movies has gone down so drastically in recent times that you often caught urself in humiliating situation due to this. For example Axe deodorant ad, it's sucha inferior bull$hit ad that causes humiliation in front of elders and it comes every now and then in middle of news, match or whatever. Same for song like 'D K Bose' from crap movie 'Delhi Belly' .. what will you feel if some younger kid singing this song in front of you or elders?

Now about dressing of girls, It's their choice let them wear what they want but they should remember if you wear modern dress in dodgy area or surrounding .. you're inviting trouble and it applies for Indians women or foreigners too. There's a famous quote - 'In Rome do what Romans do!' So if you wear skirt, shorts or any such dress in western country, you're very safe and no body gives a damn but if you wear the same kinda cloths in India you'll be a object of stare and eventually you'll be in trouble. Rest is your choice and your life.

Rapists and Sick people won't change, only way to prevent such crime is to create some terror in their eyes by punishing culprits publicly.

Anyways, All I wanted to say that cheapness and vulgarity of any kind must not be appreciated.



Jit - if you don't mind, can I put your question back to you more generally? Would you do all that you do in your life (say on your own or with your friends) in front of family, specially elders? If not, what sort of yardstick is this?

[cooljat]

Totally in sync with you Vivek here. Very aptly described in Hindi! Cheers!!


नीलम जी, ऐसी बात नहीं है कि हिंदी भाषा में इस विषय पर विश्लेष्ण करने के लिए उपयुक्त शब्दावली या अलंकरण नहीं है I भाषा तो केवल एक संकेत है जो मानवीय भावनाओं, अनुभूतियों और इच्छाओं को इंगित करती है I क्या मुंशी प्रेमचंद ने विभिन्न मानवीय पहलूओं और सामाजिक समस्सयाओं को हिंदी भाषा के माध्यम से प्रभावशाली ढंग से मानस पटल पर नहीं उतारा था I उनके साहित्य को गोर्की और शेक्सपियर की रचनाओं से कम नहीं आँका जा सकता I क्या बलात्कार जैसे जघन्य अपराधों को शोभा डे की अलंकृत अंग्रेजी के बिना दूसरी भाषाओँ या बोली (जैसे हरियाणवी इत्यादि) में चर्चित करना असंभव है I

खैर यह रही एक बात I अब अगर विषय की बात करें तो जाहिर तौर पर करीना कपूर, मलिका सहरावत और मलायका अरोड़ा जैसी महिलाओं के के अंग प्रदर्शन या commodification से लोगों के दिमाग में प्रदूषण का स्तर अवश्य बढ़ता है I बिकने को तो हिन्दुस्तान में बहुत कुछ बिक सकता है, लेकिन हर आसानी से बिकने वाली चीज़ के क्रय-विक्रय को खुला नहीं छोड़ा जा सकता I इस तर्क के अनुसार तो देह व्यापार की भी खुली छूट होनी चाहिए I पर उसके दुष्प्रभाव से समाज की व्यवस्था चरमरा जायेगी I मनोरंजन और कला के नाम पर हर बेहूदगी को सिर्फ इसीलिये बर्दाश्त नहीं किया जा सकता कि टीवी टॉक-शो में महिलाओं की स्वतंत्रता का ढोल पीटने वाले संभ्रांत वर्ग के दो चार लोग इसकी हिमायत कर रहे हैं, (जो अक्सर टीवी चैनल वालों के दोस्त ही होते हैं ). महिला एम्पावरमेंट और लैंगिक समानता के नाम पर महिलाओं को अश्लीलता फैलाने का अधिकार नहीं दिया जाना चाहिए I इसी प्रकार सिनेमा में पुरुष कारकूनों को भी जिस्म प्रदर्शन की खुली छूट नहीं होनी चाहिए I कहीं एक रेखा तो खींचनी पड़ेगी I माना सेक्स सम्बन्धी अधिकांश अपराधों में पुरुष ही जिम्मेदार होते हैं, परन्तु कुछ मर्यादा और आचरण-सीमा महिलाओं के लिए भी निर्धारित करनी पड़ेगी I वैसे भी हमारे समाज में value system सब के लिए एक जैसा नहीं हो सकता I शोभा डे और Hugh Hefner (of Playboy) का वैल्यू सिस्टम हमारे मध्य वर्गीय समाज (खासकर देहात) के वैल्यू सिस्टम से थोडा हट के है I क्योंकि Hefner ने 86 साल की उम्र में इस नए साल पर एक 26 साल की लडकी से शादी की है I अब आप बताएं क्या इस 26 साल की लड़की ने अपने दादा जी की उम्र वाले Hefnar की जवानी पर लट्टू हो कर शादी की है I नहीं, शायद उसके वैभव और बेशुमार दौलत से की है I क्या इस प्रकार के वैल्यू सिस्टम को आप अपने गाँव में पनपने देने की पक्षधर होंगी ? हरगिज़ नहीं I इसलिए हम समाज में फैली बुराइयों की जिम्मेवारी से महिलाओं को भी बरी नहीं कर सकते I क्योंकि बहुत सारी महिलायें भी सिनेमा जगत और संपन्न वर्ग की चका-चौंध से प्रभावित होकर अपनी मान मर्यादा का सौदा करने से गुरेज़ नहीं करती, परन्तु उनके तौर तरीके हमारे तथाकथिक सभ्य, प्रगतिशील और सुसंस्कृत वर्ग के लेखकों और बुद्दिजीवियों को सभ्यता का चरमोत्कर्ष नज़र आता है I माफ़ करना ये वैल्यू सिस्टम और इस प्रकार की महिला एम्पावरमेंट कुछ अटपटा सा लग रहा है I

[cooljat]

Bhai afeem khaa rakhi hai ke?


Dear,

film was approved by censor board. so there is no vulgarity as per Indian rules and regulations. and also if we think that way then we must ban internet, hollywood movies as well. so plz think again.

thanks

[AnkurMalik]

Bhai afeem khaa rakhi hai ke?
Dude are you crazy?

Whats wrong I have written. Let me know. Kindly mind ur language and behave like a civilized person.

Ta

[cooljat]

Strict law can only change such men. Ye laato ke bhoot hain baato se nahi maante.
dear,

though i can understand ur message and feeling regarding the change in society. but i have not seen one comment on changing man's thinking abt woman. why everything is being imposed on woman. from dress to where she goes, what she does; come on yar,,,don;t be tht skeptical.. plz also suggest how man should change.

[AnkurMalik]

Also reply, what was wrong in my statement. Don;t go berserk and behave yourself. No personal attacks please. Attack argument instead.
ta

[cooljat]

Hahaha, Don't you think you've blind faith in "Indian Censor Board" .. so if it clears some cheap movies like all Mahesh Bhatt crap then it's acceptable and not at all vulgar?


Dude are you crazy?

Whats wrong I have written. Let me know. Kindly mind ur language and behave like a civilized person.

Ta

[cooljat]

Take it easy mate. Don't over react !


Also reply, what was wrong in my statement. Don;t go berserk and behave yourself. No personal attacks please. Attack argument instead.
ta

[AnkurMalik]

Strict law can only change such men. Ye laato ke bhoot hain baato se nahi maante.
dear member,

A man can retrain himself and can create big difference. its a matter of changing mentality. i knw its nt overnight change bt gradually we can make difference.

i said because we always tell woman to change and behave. but no consultation for man. i thk we also need to change our mindset and mentality.

so far in this whole thread i could not find any rational argument to advocate man to change.

[rekhasmriti]

"This is a humble request to female folks and other liberal souls that please don't encourage such vulgarity in general. It's not expression of freedom or liberal attitude but sick and cheap show off "

Repeating - We watch them that is why they show it . So its us who are Cheap not them.

Why just female folks , why to expect from others . Lets do it now me n u all boycott all those show biz, kareena , malika movies , advertisement, hollywood , porn .
If u n me all start this-----in few years it all be gone . N problem sorted .

Why are we stretching it -----no clue ?
Cool in agreement those so called Cheap celebrities responsible for such crimes . Lets boycott all that stuff . If we can do candle march , if we can protest , if we can share grief, if we can shed tears for same poor soul . Then we can do same for protection of women.

Trust me , if this would have been the reason . We (women) would have stopped it long time back . No one is this universe want to put end to such crimes more than
US- Women . And we all are ready to do anything which can put an end to such crimes which cause not physical rather mental trauma not just victim but to all women.

[AnkurMalik]

Hahaha, Don't you think you've blind faith in "Indian Censor Board" .. so if it clears some cheap movies like all Mahesh Bhatt crap then it's acceptable and not at all vulgar?

dear,

you have every right to laugh. in fact u shld. i was surprised to see the budget of indian censor board. its mere 6.9 crore. i don;t know from this budget how thy manage huge media in india and huge bollywood industry. i thnk our board is not proactive enough to deal with rising challenges in indian society. i also respect ur argument abt vulgarity. yes there is check required bt i am surprised that film get passed nd broadcast ed without acceptable censorship. its alarming when a majority of indian society might not accept. bt its a change time and our discussion could definite help us in drawing a line abt what is vulgar and whts nt.

ta

[cooljat]

Sorry but I'm not able to understand what you wanted to convey here. Can you please post in S.I.M.P.L.E English again, instead of this SMS/TXT language.

Thanks!


"This is a humble request to female folks and other liberal souls that please don't encourage such vulgarity in general. It's not expression of freedom or liberal attitude but sick and cheap show off "

Repeating - We watch them that is why they show it . So its us who are Cheap not them.

Why just female folks , why to expect from others . Lets do it now me n u all boycott all those show biz, kareena , malika movies , advertisement, hollywood , porn .
If u n me all start this-----in few years it all be gone . N problem sorted .

Why are we stretching it -----no clue ?
Cool in agreement those so called Cheap celebrities responsible for such crimes . Lets boycott all that stuff . If we can do candle march , if we can protest , if we can share grief, if we can shed tears for same poor soul . Then we can do same for protection of women.

Trust me , if this would have been the reason . We (women) would have stopped it long time back . No one is this universe want to put end to such crimes more than
US- Women . And we all are ready to do anything which can put an end to such crimes which cause not physical rather mental trauma not just victim but to all women.

[rekhasmriti]

Someone told me once------No matter how educated you become , No matter how successful you become . You would always be questioned.

We are answering n answering since decades . Still every time we get the blame. Who knows for how many more decades we need to answer .

Who said time is changed -----na----we are still there where we were decades back . Everyone else wants us to change , what about them !!!!!!!

Keep it up folks !!!!!!! I m no damn proud on u all .

[rekhasmriti]

Never mind dear , although I do not see any sms/txt language used apart from " N " which stands for AND.
If you could not understand , its MY BAD not yours

Humare yahan kahawat hai-----jismei jitni samajh hoti hai , woh utni hi bat karta hai .

Regards,





Sorry but I'm not able to understand what you wanted to convey here. Can you please post in S.I.M.P.L.E English again, instead of this SMS/TXT language.

Thanks!

[AnkurMalik]

Someone told me once------No matter how educated you become , No matter how successful you become . You would always be questioned.

We are answering n answering since decades . Still every time we get the blame. Who knows for how many more decades we need to answer .

Who said time is changed -----na----we are still there where we were decades back . Everyone else wants us to change , what about them !!!!!!!

Keep it up folks !!!!!!! I m no damn proud on u all .
Rekha ji

i agree with u. we hv seen many posts abt censorship & abt dressing of woman. bt as usual, there is none on how society as a whle cn change. specially man. it boils down to mentality. thanks.

[cooljat]

Bhai, you're also a man and represent us in society. Why don't you share your views n' suggestions to change mentality of men.
Rekha ji

i agree with u. we hv seen many posts abt censorship & abt dressing of woman. bt as usual, there is none on how society as a whle cn change. specially man. it boils down to mentality. thanks.

[AnkurMalik]

Bhai, you're also a man and represent us in society. Why don't you share your views n' suggestions to change mentality of men.

dear,

i already mentioned abt changing ourselves. right frm my first post, i said its nt abt what woman wear, its abt our mentality. we also need to change. i was obsessed wth the replies here. thy r more around woman rather than a society as a whole, specially man.

thanks

[kapdal]

It's not a yardstick or like that. And you're comparing two entirely different aspects here. Of course, I won't do the things which are to be done privately or with friends, in front of family like Drinking, using swear words but there're things which I neither do nor appreciate like Vulgarity, Sleaziness, cheapness etc no matter if it's related to men or women. Quality of TV show, advertisements, songs and movies has gone down so drastically in recent times that you often caught urself in humiliating situation due to this. For example Axe deodorant ad, it's sucha inferior bull$hit ad that causes humiliation in front of elders and it comes every now and then in middle of news, match or whatever. Same for song like 'D K Bose' from crap movie 'Delhi Belly' .. what will you feel if some younger kid singing this song in front of you or elders?

Now about dressing of girls, It's their choice let them wear what they want but they should remember if you wear modern dress in dodgy area or surrounding .. you're inviting trouble and it applies for Indians women or foreigners too. There's a famous quote - 'In Rome do what Romans do!' So if you wear skirt, shorts or any such dress in western country, you're very safe and no body gives a damn but if you wear the same kinda cloths in India you'll be a object of stare and eventually you'll be in trouble. Rest is your choice and your life.

Rapists and Sick people won't change, only way to prevent such crime is to create some terror in their eyes by punishing culprits publicly.

Anyways, All I wanted to say that cheapness and vulgarity of any kind must not be appreciated.


One can very reasonably have a view that there is lot of vulgarity and cheapness in India now in blind aping of Western culture. As you acknowledge with some examples, my point was just that there are so many things you won't do in front of elders. So there can't be a yardstick like "only do stuff you can do in front of your elders". At some level, everyone is influenced by Western culture, whether it is is listening to Western songs, watching hollywood movies or TV serials or dressing in western clothes. I am not even comfortable switching on "Friends" in front of my parents - should that mean that we should ban it from India?

There are two important things to note. Firstly, two particular actresses or for that matter any actress is not "responsible" for this. Cheapness and vulgarity have always been there in cinema even before liberalisation - there were songs, actresses, actors in limelight for this in 80s and 90s. Right now, it has become too much in your face which is due to media, sponsors, consumers but not actresses.

Secondly, it is absolutely wild to link names of some actresses to this incident. Basically, it is India TV style sensationalist analysis. If I have to make an analogy with Jatland as a media platform, then this thread is pornographic in the way it seeks to sensationalize.

[spdeshwal]

में एक प्रशन इस चर्चा को शुरू करने वाले और उनकी राय से इतफाक रखने वाले मित्रों से कर् चाहता हूँ कि क्या कभी इन कलाकारों या किसी अन्य कलाकार को नाचते गाते या किसी भी तरह का अश्लील नृत्य करते देख उनका मन भी , क्षण भर के लिए सही, इस कदर उदुवेलित हुआ था कि आपके विवेक ने काम करना बंद कर दिया हो और इस तरह के कुकृत्य के भाव भी मन में आये हों ? में यह प्रशन इस लिए कर रह हूँ की मैंने अपने जीवन में कितने ही एसे लोगों के बारे में जाना है जिन्होंने जीवन में कभी सिनेमा नहीं देखा और फिर भी इस तरह के कृत्य को अंजाम दिया हो! क्या आपने इस थ्रेड को शुरू करने से पहले कोई शोध किया या किसी अन्य के शोध का अध्यन किया है ? कृपया आप मेरे इस प्रशन को व्यक्तिगत टिप्णी न समझें! में केवल आपके इस दृष्टिकोण को अपने दृष्टिकोण से समझने का प्रयास कर रह हूँ!
मेरी व्यक्तिगत राय यही है कि इस तरह का कृत्य करने वाले लोग कई कारणों से प्रेरित और प्रभावित होते हैं! मैंने इस सन्दर्भ में आज एक लेख पढ़ा है जो एक भिन्न दृष्टिकोण को दर्शाता है!

http://epaper.dailypostindia.com/Details.aspx?id=59102&boxid=55719&uid&dat=2013-01-03

Cheers!

[Mishti]

For example Axe deodorant ad, it's sucha inferior bull$hit ad that causes humiliation in front of elders and it comes every now and then in middle of news, match or whatever. Same for song like 'D K Bose' from crap movie 'Delhi Belly' .. what will you feel if some younger kid singing this song in front of you or elders?



I totally agree it's too sleazy, but then rather than just sit and whine about it a responsible citizen would complain against it!
this is what we lack and this is what we should overcome.

[desijat]

Ads follow a simple strategy of ' Jo dikhta hai wo hi bikta hai' .... jis din bikna band ho jayega us din dikhna bhi band ho jayega.

Youth is aspired by the emotions shown in the ad which results in sales. The moment youth starts to avoid such communication, they would stop showing it.



I totally agree it's too sleazy, but then rather than just sit and whine about it a responsible citizen would complain against it!
this is what we lack and this is what we should overcome.

[swaich]

Rapes happen in India, not Bharat, says RSS chief Mohan Bhagwat (http://ibnlive.in.com/news/rapes-happen-in-india-not-bharat-says-rss-chief-mohan-bhagwat/313784-37-64.html)

New Delhi: Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh chief Mohan Bhagwat on Friday kicked up a controversy with his remark that rapes happened in cities and not in the rural areas. "Such crimes hardly take place in Bharat, but they frequently occur in India," Bhagwat said seeming to indicate that "westernization" in Indian cities was the reason behind increasing cases of rapes.
"You go to villages and forests of the country and there will be no such incidents of gangrape or sex crimes. They are prevalent in some urban belts. Besides new legislations, Indian ethos and attitude towards women should be revisited in the context of ancient Indian values," Bhagwat had told a gathering of RSS workers in Silchar, Assam.
The remark follows a similar comment by a MP BJP leader who stated that women who did not stay within their limits, paid the price for it just like Sita was abducted by Ravana after she crossed the 'Lakshman rekha'.

Ek hi shabd hai - Maryada. Maryada ka ulanghan hota hai, toh Sita-haran ho jata hai. Laxman-rekha har vyakti ki khichi gayi hai. Us Laxman-rekha ko koi bhi par karega, toh Rawan samne baitha hai, woh Sita-haran karke le jayega. (One has to abide by certain moral limits. If you cross this limit you will be punished, just like Sita was abducted by Ravana)," Kailash Vijayvargiya had said.
However, defending Bhagwat, RSS spokesperson Ram Madhav said, "The statement should be taken in the right prospective. He has condemned the heinous crime and said that if necessary people who are involved in such kind of act should be hanged to death. He said that in Bhartiya tradition, we have great respect for women and if we go away from the Bhartiya tradition of respecting woman, one will end up in indulging in such criminal acts. There is no need to give other interpretations to his statement."
At a time when major political parties are being forced to run for cover over criticism that they field candidates who face rape charges, such irresponsible remarks against women and their dignity from its party leaders could tarnish the BJP's image.
National Commission for Women chief Mamata Sharma slammed the leaders saying that at a time when the country was trying to push its women towards progress, the politicians were trying to set more limitations upon them.
"I want to request senior leader Mohan Bhagwat to stop citing differences between India and Bharat. We are all Indians staying in this country. Bhagwatji needs to go to the grassroots level and then compare the condition of women in villages and cities," she added.
CPM leader Brinda Karat said, "Mohan Bhagwat doesn't know either India or Bharat. The largest number of rapes occur in rural areas on Dalits, tribals and rural workers. Such statements give confidence to criminals."
Congress leader Digvijaya Singh said, "It shows the ideology of Sangh. Women cannot become members of the RSS. There is no difference between India and Bharat."
Congress leader Rashid Masood warned, "We politicians should control over tongues and remember that we too have women at home."
Activist Kiran Bedi said, "Bharat is different from India because Bharat does not have the infrastructure to take the report... of sexual assault, which is why girls continue to suffer."
Congress, Trinamool act against tainted leaders
The Congress on Thursday expelled one of its Assam leaders after he was accused of raping a mother of two.
The Trinamool Congress too suspended its party workers who were caught on camera heckling and throwing currency notes at women dancers at one of their functions.

[bsbana]

The remark follows a similar comment by a MP BJP leader who stated that women who did not stay within their limits, paid the price for it just like Sita was abducted by Ravana after she crossed the 'Lakshman rekha'

Women didn't commit any crime, however it might be called a mistake. Suppose I go for money to ATM in night and it's a dangerous place, someone robs me. I haven't committed a crime, but it's my mistake. Obviously my family will scold me for not taking care. Sita also made a mistake, not crime.
However his statement looks bit misogynistic, specially use of word 'stay within their limit'.

[AbhikRana]

Ankur, whatever you are writing or wanting to dwell upon has already been discussed in my previous posts on this thread. The only thing advisable would be to go through my previous posts and I am sure most of your points would be more than satisfactorily answered because otherwise we will keep going around in circles.


my dear friend,

movies u r talking abt are being allowed by indian censor board. so the movie stick to the rule & regulation. also plz comment on ; how man shld change. u hv talked enough abt woman(indirectly). what woman shld wear, wht woman should do etc. but plz also comment on man thinking and attitude(which is retarded and sick).

thnk u

[AbhikRana]

In the name of being politically correct, we shy away from facing the realities of society today without which tough decisions would not come. Because till the time we analyse and acknowledge all the facets of a problem, no effective and long-lasting solution would be possible.

Some intelligent people have been drawing wild inferences that what is being put forward by this thread is that if women do not dress properly in public, sick animals are free to run amok. They are free to draw those wild inferences. Just arguing for the sake of argument.

A few simple and straightforward questions remain unanswered despite having been put at the beginning of the discussion:

1. What is the role of the cheap, vulgar and sleazy item numbers in shaping the moral values culture?
2. Why do the so called actresses indulge in the cheap show of flesh - social service, patriotism, social cause, money, glamour?
3. Would you as a civilized person allow the children in your family including girls dance to 'Munnee badnaam hui darling tere liye', 'chikni chameli', 'I am a rapist - by Honey Singh'?
4. Does the freedom to dress also include freedom to undress in public?

Also, I guess there is a difference between banning something and exercising self-restraint.

If Kareena and Malaika indulge in cheap, vulgar songs that is good/okay, but when what they do is brought to the fore, it is called sensationalism and pornography. If this is not hypocrisy, then what is?



One can very reasonably have a view that there is lot of vulgarity and cheapness in India now in blind aping of Western culture. As you acknowledge with some examples, my point was just that there are so many things you won't do in front of elders. So there can't be a yardstick like "only do stuff you can do in front of your elders". At some level, everyone is influenced by Western culture, whether it is is listening to Western songs, watching hollywood movies or TV serials or dressing in western clothes. I am not even comfortable switching on "Friends" in front of my parents - should that mean that we should ban it from India?

There are two important things to note. Firstly, two particular actresses or for that matter any actress is not "responsible" for this. Cheapness and vulgarity have always been there in cinema even before liberalisation - there were songs, actresses, actors in limelight for this in 80s and 90s. Right now, it has become too much in your face which is due to media, sponsors, consumers but not actresses.

Secondly, it is absolutely wild to link names of some actresses to this incident. Basically, it is India TV style sensationalist analysis. If I have to make an analogy with Jatland as a media platform, then this thread is pornographic in the way it seeks to sensationalize.

[AbhikRana]

Why are these few cheap women (so called celebrities) being made representative of the entire womenfolk of this country. If an individual wants to identify with these women, he/she is free to do so, but we need to refrain from clubbing them with the womenfolk of this country.

Since you idiolise Kareena, Malaika, Honey, would you want children in the family to dance to their songs, 'Chikni Chameli', 'Munni badnaam hui', 'I am a rapist'? After all, according to you these so-called celebrities are doing nothing wrong by coming out with those sleazy songs.

The parents need to police the child all the time whether on the way to school or back, in the middle of news/other tv programs especially so when quite a large chunk of the families have both husband and wife working. If they cannot police, it's the parents fault/headache, not the so called item girls who can very well play a responsible role and undertake self-restraint.

I would await your reply on this point to take the discussion further.


Someone told me once------No matter how educated you become , No matter how successful you become . You would always be questioned.

We are answering n answering since decades . Still every time we get the blame. Who knows for how many more decades we need to answer .

Who said time is changed -----na----we are still there where we were decades back . Everyone else wants us to change , what about them !!!!!!!

Keep it up folks !!!!!!! I m no damn proud on u all .

[AbhikRana]

No denial of the fact that sexual violence against women existed even before this cheap vulgarity came to be served on prime time. Long before a segment of society accepted cheapness and vulgarity (Munee badnaam, chikni chameli) as an integral part of their lives.

However, my question to you would be, how would you term the work of a few cheap women:

1. Social service.
2. Patriotic.
3. Social cause/message.
4. Entertainment.

What role is it playing on the society?


में एक प्रशन इस चर्चा को शुरू करने वाले और उनकी राय से इतफाक रखने वाले मित्रों से कर् चाहता हूँ कि क्या कभी इन कलाकारों या किसी अन्य कलाकार को नाचते गाते या किसी भी तरह का अश्लील नृत्य करते देख उनका मन भी , क्षण भर के लिए सही, इस कदर उदुवेलित हुआ था कि आपके विवेक ने काम करना बंद कर दिया हो और इस तरह के कुकृत्य के भाव भी मन में आये हों ? में यह प्रशन इस लिए कर रह हूँ की मैंने अपने जीवन में कितने ही एसे लोगों के बारे में जाना है जिन्होंने जीवन में कभी सिनेमा नहीं देखा और फिर भी इस तरह के कृत्य को अंजाम दिया हो! क्या आपने इस थ्रेड को शुरू करने से पहले कोई शोध किया या किसी अन्य के शोध का अध्यन किया है ? कृपया आप मेरे इस प्रशन को व्यक्तिगत टिप्णी न समझें! में केवल आपके इस दृष्टिकोण को अपने दृष्टिकोण से समझने का प्रयास कर रह हूँ!
मेरी व्यक्तिगत राय यही है कि इस तरह का कृत्य करने वाले लोग कई कारणों से प्रेरित और प्रभावित होते हैं! मैंने इस सन्दर्भ में आज एक लेख पढ़ा है जो एक भिन्न दृष्टिकोण को दर्शाता है!

http://epaper.dailypostindia.com/Details.aspx?id=59102&boxid=55719&uid&dat=2013-01-03

Cheers!

[cooljat]

.

First you female folks stop advocating such vulgarity and sleaziness being practiced by actresses in the name of entrainment, success and women empowerment. We'll do our part later, we need your support first.




I totally agree it's too sleazy, but then rather than just sit and whine about it a responsible citizen would complain against it!
this is what we lack and this is what we should overcome.

[Samarkadian]

129 उत्तर और असंख्य अपेक्षित उत्तरों से तो यही प्रमणित हो रहा है कि जो दिखता है वो ही बिकता है ! करीना, मलाइका , और मल्लिका में दम है तभी उनका इतना चर्चा हो रहा है ! कोई अतिशयोक्ति नहीं होगी यदि यह थ्रेड मोदी वाले थ्रेड को भी मात दे दे ! सब न जी सा आ रा है ! लागे रहो !

[AnkurMalik]

Ankur, whatever you are writing or wanting to dwell upon has already been discussed in my previous posts on this thread. The only thing advisable would be to go through my previous posts and I am sure most of your points would be more than satisfactorily answered because otherwise we will keep going around in circles.

Dear,


in this whole thread u r talking abt Kareena, Malika. none of ur post is on counselling of man. it seems everything is expected frm woman.


Answer my questions:


a.) people who watch Kareena, Malika movies only do such crimes?
b.) woman who wear salwar kameez don't become victim? According to ur theory, those woman shld be spared but if u check statistics, it is incorrect. If we consider that way; I am sorry. I have to say 75 percent of Rape convicts are from Rural Areas. I don;t thnk its woman dress which matters. its the mentality that matters.


c.) if this theory further get extended, u ll find that people who go to western countries tend to commit such crimes more than in India. but thats not the case at all. thats because law is implemented well in those countries. Woman is more empowered in those countries. Woman knows her rights and her voice is listened.


so dear, man needs counselling. aslo law must be implemented well. its nt abt harsher penalties. we already have law. its abt implementation of law and order. and woman must be empowered. she should knw her rights. and time to change the social mentality. Talking about justice for woman shld be taken seriously. currently right now, its a social stigma if woman disclose the information abt incident. people in our society talks bad abt woman and would raise ridiculous questions


like why she was there at that time, what she was doing, what she was wearing. etc.

That results in that most of cases go unreported and rapist gets more encouragement because he knws that no body is going to catch him.


Dear these things must be looked at.

[AnkurMalik]

Ankur, whatever you are writing or wanting to dwell upon has already been discussed in my previous posts on this thread. The only thing advisable would be to go through my previous posts and I am sure most of your points would be more than satisfactorily answered because otherwise we will keep going around in circles.
Mr Rana,

Also check this video. Telecasted last night. Rational thoughts and nice debate.

Is rapper Honey Singh just an easy target?


http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/left-right-centre/is-rapper-honey-singh-just-an-easy-target/260701?hp

[spdeshwal]

No denial of the fact that sexual violence against women existed even before this cheap vulgarity came to be served on prime time. Long before a segment of society accepted cheapness and vulgarity (Munee badnaam, chikni chameli) as an integral part of their lives.

However, my question to you would be, how would you term the work of a few cheap women:

1. Social service.
2. Patriotic.
3. Social cause/message.
4. Entertainment.

What role is it playing on the society?

Abhik Bhai ,
Thanks for replying my post and taking my view point in right perspective.
As far as the question of the contribution of these individuals towards society is concerned, I would say entertainment. Whether they provide social service or perform an act of patriotism could be debatable. But, in that case I would like to be enlightened about the categories of work/ professions that can pass the test devised by you! How many professions/ work / jobs do you think can be categorised as Social Service or patriotic? I believe, even people (mostly) who join the military services, considering it just another job that would get them some regular income! I also believe that any job /work performed with honesty contribute to the society! Any act/ work that contribute to society can be patriotic!
Anyways, my question remains, how did you reach to the conclusion that these actors are equally responsible for the death of Damini or any other innocent girl elsewhere?

Cheers!

[rekhasmriti]

"The parents need to police the child all the time whether on the way to school or back, in the middle of news/other tv programs especially so when quite a large chunk of the families have both husband and wife working. If they cannot police, it's the parents fault/headache, not the so called item girls who can very well play a responsible role and undertake self-restraint."

Absolutely in agreement-----MERE BACHE MERI RESPONSIBILITY MY JOB MY LOVE N AFFECTION MY FLESH N BLOOD. Be it at home--school--market--roads--watching tv--giving exam-doing anything , its my job to take care of them . I do not buy those excuses that I m working or have some other obligations . Children come first ----If I can not take care of them - ITS ME WHO NEEDS TO BR BLAMED

Why would I expect some XYZ to start or stop doing something for my kids ........My kids belong to me so its whole-sole my responsibility .

Now about my kids singing Honey Singh n other-----as long as they are minor---its my job to tell them how to interpret such stuff.

Once they are adult----yar -----yeh unki life hai--let them decide what they want to do or not . They would be old enough to difference between what to do or what not.

"Since you idiolise"
What make u thing I idealise them----none of the public figure deserve to be some one's idol nowadays . I m awesome n best for me .

Why are u getting personal I do not know -------n please keep my kids off this topic .

PS : I was literally not going to reply , but "I would await your reply" made me reply . Let me conclude :
" WE BOTH AGREE TO DISAGREE"

[rekhasmriti]

"We'll do our part later "

Wahi toh itni sari posts mei samjha rahe hai-------sare umeed , rules , agreements , statements , compromise etc --------Sab hum hi se .
Hum itne salon se kar rahe hai------aap logon ka LATER kab aane wala hai .

[desijat]

Society is constituted by both Men and Women and instead of telling each other how to behave let us learn to behave ourselves. Wont it be rather easy instead of preaching others in vein?

[AbhikRana]

As a member of JL, I am fully entitled to raise and emphasize on one particular aspect of the problem. You as a JL member are equally free to raise other aspects of the problem through a separate thread.

Rape whether in rural or urban areas, in America or in India is equally reprehensible. It is the most heinous crime whether it happens in Urban/rural area or in India or any other part of the world. It would be doing a disservice to the cause of women by giving it a regional/national/international touch.

In his song 'I am a rapist', Honey Singh is doing a service to the cause of woman by boasting of his act as a rapist. Yet we would like to support and defend him. I do not have anything more to say if people defend such sick and cheap people like Honey Singh, Kareena, Malaika, etc.

I would reiterate that most of the points raised by you would be answered by going through my previous posts.



Dear,


in this whole thread u r talking abt Kareena, Malika. none of ur post is on counselling of man. it seems everything is expected frm woman.


Answer my questions:


a.) people who watch Kareena, Malika movies only do such crimes?
b.) woman who wear salwar kameez don't become victim? According to ur theory, those woman shld be spared but if u check statistics, it is incorrect. If we consider that way; I am sorry. I have to say 75 percent of Rape convicts are from Rural Areas. I don;t thnk its woman dress which matters. its the mentality that matters.


c.) if this theory further get extended, u ll find that people who go to western countries tend to commit such crimes more than in India. but thats not the case at all. thats because law is implemented well in those countries. Woman is more empowered in those countries. Woman knows her rights and her voice is listened.


so dear, man needs counselling. aslo law must be implemented well. its nt abt harsher penalties. we already have law. its abt implementation of law and order. and woman must be empowered. she should knw her rights. and time to change the social mentality. Talking about justice for woman shld be taken seriously. currently right now, its a social stigma if woman disclose the information abt incident. people in our society talks bad abt woman and would raise ridiculous questions


like why she was there at that time, what she was doing, what she was wearing. etc.

That results in that most of cases go unreported and rapist gets more encouragement because he knws that no body is going to catch him.


Dear these things must be looked at.

[AbhikRana]

Deshwal ji, I do not for a moment intend to support the notion that cheap acts of cheap people like Honey Singh, Kareena and Malaika are solely responsible for the acts of sick animals. It is one of the prominent reasons for the spread of this cheap culture which by its spread is becoming increasing acceptable. It has become so common for men to use foul words in front of women - If we have watched the movie Delhi Belly, you would appreciate what I am talking.

As far as professions are concerned, the comparison of professions such as armed forces and item numbers would be hard to compare. Though it is possible that a few men don the uniform for regular income, but the outcome remains the same - safeguarding our borders and ensuring that we sleep snugly in our warm blankets while they shiver it out at -40 degrees at the towering heights of Siachen. I am sure the same thing cannot be said for cheapsters like Kareena, Malaika and Honey. Their only motive is to earn buckets full of money and remaining in limelight even if it is at the cost of poisoning the culture of the society and playing a key role in making vulgarity acceptable.

Is it too much to ask these cheapsters to not remove clothes in public? Is too much to ask these cheapsters (Honey, Imran (Delhi Belly)) not to use cheap lyrics/foul language in their works of art?




Abhik Bhai ,
Thanks for replying my post and taking my view point in right perspective.
As far as the question of the contribution of these individuals towards society is concerned, I would say entertainment. Whether they provide social service or perform an act of patriotism could be debatable. But, in that case I would like to be enlightened about the categories of work/ professions that can pass the test devised by you! How many professions/ work / jobs do you think can be categorised as Social Service or patriotic? I believe, even people (mostly) who join the military services, considering it just another job that would get them some regular income! I also believe that any job /work performed with honesty contribute to the society! Any act/ work that contribute to society can be patriotic!
Anyways, my question remains, how did you reach to the conclusion that these actors are equally responsible for the death of Damini or any other innocent girl elsewhere?

Cheers!

[AbhikRana]

I think tomorrow we should not complain if our neighbours play loud music at night/day because after all they are doing it at their home. We should not complain if somebody is smoking, after all he is the one harming his own health. By your logic, everyone is free in this country to do what he/she pleases. By this logic, it would be a free for all - 'I will do what I want, let the world go to hell'

As far as policing the children is concerned, according to your logic we should first spread poison in our environment, then think of saving ourselves from that poison.

Nobody intends to get personal with you by talking about your children. That was a generic statement not pointed to any person in particular but people who idolize the so-called celebrities in general. I am sure just like you adore your children
there are countless working mothers who adore their children and it would not be responsible of us blame them for not being able to give time to their children instead of blaming those who are poisoning our environment.

You are free to identify yourself with your so-called celebrities, but please do not drag the entire women community by making these cheapsters representative of our womenfolk who are equally responsible for turning the wheel of society and civilization.


"The parents need to police the child all the time whether on the way to school or back, in the middle of news/other tv programs especially so when quite a large chunk of the families have both husband and wife working. If they cannot police, it's the parents fault/headache, not the so called item girls who can very well play a responsible role and undertake self-restraint."

Absolutely in agreement-----MERE BACHE MERI RESPONSIBILITY MY JOB MY LOVE N AFFECTION MY FLESH N BLOOD. Be it at home--school--market--roads--watching tv--giving exam-doing anything , its my job to take care of them . I do not buy those excuses that I m working or have some other obligations . Children come first ----If I can not take care of them - ITS ME WHO NEEDS TO BR BLAMED

Why would I expect some XYZ to start or stop doing something for my kids ........My kids belong to me so its whole-sole my responsibility .

Now about my kids singing Honey Singh n other-----as long as they are minor---its my job to tell them how to interpret such stuff.

Once they are adult----yar -----yeh unki life hai--let them decide what they want to do or not . They would be old enough to difference between what to do or what not.

"Since you idiolise"
What make u thing I idealise them----none of the public figure deserve to be some one's idol nowadays . I m awesome n best for me .

Why are u getting personal I do not know -------n please keep my kids off this topic .

PS : I was literally not going to reply , but "I would await your reply" made me reply . Let me conclude :
" WE BOTH AGREE TO DISAGREE"

[rekhasmriti]

I have already made my concluding statement:
We agree to disagree - discussion stands close from my side . Still.............


I think tomorrow we should not complain if our neighbours play loud music at night/day because after all they are doing it at their home. We should not complain if somebody is smoking, after all he is the one harming his own health.Now u r going to compare Smoking - Loud Music with so called Cheap Celebs shows.


Although entirely not related still u have asked for it :
1-I person X is not well , perosn Y neigbor plays loud music . Person X could not sleep-
and would effect his health.


2- If neighbor Y is watching such so called Chepa Celebs on his TV , how would taht effect person X.


3- If I m resting at my home , my neighbor is smoking -----how can it effect me .
4- You do know smoking is ban in public places.


"we should first spread poison in our environment"


Thank you for using WE .


"it would not be responsible of us blame them for not being able to give time to their children instead of blaming those who are poisoning our environment."


Every kid is dear to the mother , point is 1st my OWNERSHIP as they are my kids . My responsibilty to teach them good or bad .


If my kids do great - I feel proud " Mere Bache " . Agar bigad gaye toh " Those celebs or show biz or whatever responsible for it"
Not fair yar .




"You are free to identify yourself with your so-called celebrities,"
Again you are getting personal . As I said meri koi sage wali nahi lagti woh .


"the entire women community"


Aap jis comunity ki bat kar rahe hai ----I am part of same more than you .
Sorry for being personal


"equally responsible"


WE all are equally responsible not just them , If i go by your views.


PS: I sincerely rest my case . Truly aplogizing , none of my post meant to offend anyone . I was sharing my views only


Thats it .


Take care .


Regards,

[AnkurMalik]

As a member of JL, I am fully entitled to raise and emphasize on one particular aspect of the problem. You as a JL member are equally free to raise other aspects of the problem through a separate thread.

I would reiterate that most of the points raised by you would be answered by going through my previous posts.
Dear,

don't be so adamant. most of ur posts r on just Film actresses and woman. nd also u hv not answered my questions. i checked ur previous posts. none of them have the answer. so plz answer my questions.

cheers.

[AnkurMalik]

As a member of JL, I am fully entitled to raise and emphasize on one particular aspect of the problem. You as a JL member are equally free to raise other aspects of the problem through a separate thread.

I would reiterate that most of the points raised by you would be answered by going through my previous posts.

Mr Rana,

I also request u to go through the interesting debate on woman dress. Rational thoughts and good discussion. Please go through video:

Should there be any diktat on dresses?


http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/the-big-fight/should-there-be-any-diktat-on-dresses/240132

[AnkurMalik]

I tend to disagree with your thoughts. First of all, it is disrespectful to term these women as 'cheap'. It is their job to entertain people. I don't think anyone of us would watch a movie with only male actors. The bitter truth is - sex sells, and that is why there are 'item numbers' showing more skin in movies to lure more crowd. It is the man who has to change himself. Just because someone watched a raunchy video, it doesn't mean he should go out and molest a female. No matter what a girl wears, NO ONE reserves the right to rape her. वेद पुराण में तो लिखा था की यत्र नार्यस्तु पूजयन्ते रमन्ते तत्र देवः , पूजा तो दूर की बात अगर औरत / लड़की को शान्ति से जीने दो वही बहोत है |
"If I'm a woman and I'm walking down the street naked, you STILL don't have a right to rape me." - Dick Gregory

Dear,

Just noticed, excellent post in this thread.

Thank u

[ndalal]

मैंने कदापि यह नही कहा है कि यह चर्चा अन्य भाषाओ मे संभव नही है,, मैं स्वयं हिन्दी का प्रयोग कर रही हूँ। भाषा और अभिव्यक्ति , या फिर हिन्दी सहितय के विषय मे आपके जो भी विचार हैं मैं उनसे सहमत हूँ, मेरा बिन्दु सिर्फ यह था कि यह संभावना है कि ये महिलाएं या पूरुष उस भाषा विशेष का प्रयोग क्यूँ कर रहे है,
हरयानवी या हिन्दी मे तो आपके जे एल पर भी बातचीत नही होती। अगर आप ध्यान से देखें तो यहाँ पर 15% से अधिक लोग हिन्दी या हरयानवी का प्रयोग नही करते बातचीत मे। प्रमुख और महत्वपूरन मुद्दो पर बातचीत इंग्लिश मे ही होती है। अँग्रेजी भाषा मीडिया, राजनीति, सत्ता, बाजार, अकादेमिक्स कि भाषा है आपको ये स्वीकार करना पड़ेगा
।हालांकि मेरा बिन्दु यह है कि कोई किसी भाषा का प्रयोग करे महत्व पूर्ण ये है कि वो क्या कह रहा है...
मुझे अक्सर ही ये बातें समझ नही आती है कि
महिलाओ की आचरण सीमा किस किस बात से निर्धारित होती है???
क्या पूरुषों और महिलाओ के आचरण के अलग अलग मानदंड हैं???? ये दोगलापन क्यूँ है???
हेफनेर ने ब्याह क्यूँ करा पहलम या बात भी बताओ । अपने त आधी उम्र कि छोरी ने गोद ले लेता, उसने या अकल क्यूँ न आई???या उसके पास दौलत है तो वो उस उम्र मे ब्याह कर सकता है,या उसपर सवाल नही उठाए जा सकते?? उसकी वैल्यू सिस्टम क्या है???सवाल महिला पर ही क्यूँ है ???हमने(महिलाओं ने ) सारे ठेके ले रखे है, समाज, परम्पराओ, रीति रिवाजों के???

मॉडलिंग मे जावन आले छोरण त भी बुझियों अक्क बिचारे कितने एडजस्टमेंट (शारीरिक शोषण उनका भी होता है)करते हैं, पर उनको भी चार्म है शोहरत का चका चौंध का??? या इंडस्ट्री दोनों महिलाओ और पूरुषों के लिए ऐसी ही है।


नीलम जी, ऐसी बात नहीं है कि हिंदी भाषा में इस विषय पर विश्लेष्ण करने के लिए उपयुक्त शब्दावली या अलंकरण नहीं है I भाषा तो केवल एक संकेत है जो मानवीय भावनाओं, अनुभूतियों और इच्छाओं को इंगित करती है I क्या मुंशी प्रेमचंद ने विभिन्न मानवीय पहलूओं और सामाजिक समस्सयाओं को हिंदी भाषा के माध्यम से प्रभावशाली ढंग से मानस पटल पर नहीं उतारा था I उनके साहित्य को गोर्की और शेक्सपियर की रचनाओं से कम नहीं आँका जा सकता I क्या बलात्कार जैसे जघन्य अपराधों को शोभा डे की अलंकृत अंग्रेजी के बिना दूसरी भाषाओँ या बोली (जैसे हरियाणवी इत्यादि) में चर्चित करना असंभव है I

खैर यह रही एक बात I अब अगर विषय की बात करें तो जाहिर तौर पर करीना कपूर, मलिका सहरावत और मलायका अरोड़ा जैसी महिलाओं के के अंग प्रदर्शन या commodification से लोगों के दिमाग में प्रदूषण का स्तर अवश्य बढ़ता है I बिकने को तो हिन्दुस्तान में बहुत कुछ बिक सकता है, लेकिन हर आसानी से बिकने वाली चीज़ के क्रय-विक्रय को खुला नहीं छोड़ा जा सकता I इस तर्क के अनुसार तो देह व्यापार की भी खुली छूट होनी चाहिए I पर उसके दुष्प्रभाव से समाज की व्यवस्था चरमरा जायेगी I मनोरंजन और कला के नाम पर हर बेहूदगी को सिर्फ इसीलिये बर्दाश्त नहीं किया जा सकता कि टीवी टॉक-शो में महिलाओं की स्वतंत्रता का ढोल पीटने वाले संभ्रांत वर्ग के दो चार लोग इसकी हिमायत कर रहे हैं, (जो अक्सर टीवी चैनल वालों के दोस्त ही होते हैं ). महिला एम्पावरमेंट और लैंगिक समानता के नाम पर महिलाओं को अश्लीलता फैलाने का अधिकार नहीं दिया जाना चाहिए I इसी प्रकार सिनेमा में पुरुष कारकूनों को भी जिस्म प्रदर्शन की खुली छूट नहीं होनी चाहिए I कहीं एक रेखा तो खींचनी पड़ेगी I माना सेक्स सम्बन्धी अधिकांश अपराधों में पुरुष ही जिम्मेदार होते हैं, परन्तु कुछ मर्यादा और आचरण-सीमा महिलाओं के लिए भी निर्धारित करनी पड़ेगी I वैसे भी हमारे समाज में value system सब के लिए एक जैसा नहीं हो सकता I शोभा डे और Hugh Hefner (of Playboy) का वैल्यू सिस्टम हमारे मध्य वर्गीय समाज (खासकर देहात) के वैल्यू सिस्टम से थोडा हट के है I क्योंकि Hefner ने 86 साल की उम्र में इस नए साल पर एक 26 साल की लडकी से शादी की है I अब आप बताएं क्या इस 26 साल की लड़की ने अपने दादा जी की उम्र वाले Hefnar की जवानी पर लट्टू हो कर शादी की है I नहीं, शायद उसके वैभव और बेशुमार दौलत से की है I क्या इस प्रकार के वैल्यू सिस्टम को आप अपने गाँव में पनपने देने की पक्षधर होंगी ? हरगिज़ नहीं I इसलिए हम समाज में फैली बुराइयों की जिम्मेवारी से महिलाओं को भी बरी नहीं कर सकते I क्योंकि बहुत सारी महिलायें भी सिनेमा जगत और संपन्न वर्ग की चका-चौंध से प्रभावित होकर अपनी मान मर्यादा का सौदा करने से गुरेज़ नहीं करती, परन्तु उनके तौर तरीके हमारे तथाकथिक सभ्य, प्रगतिशील और सुसंस्कृत वर्ग के लेखकों और बुद्दिजीवियों को सभ्यता का चरमोत्कर्ष नज़र आता है I माफ़ करना ये वैल्यू सिस्टम और इस प्रकार की महिला एम्पावरमेंट कुछ अटपटा सा लग रहा है I

[sanjeev_balyan]

मैंने कदापि यह नही कहा है कि यह चर्चा अन्य भाषाओ मे संभव नही है,, मैं स्वयं हिन्दी का प्रयोग कर रही हूँ। भाषा और अभिव्यक्ति , या फिर हिन्दी सहितय के विषय मे आपके जो भी विचार हैं मैं उनसे सहमत हूँ, मेरा बिन्दु सिर्फ यह था कि यह संभावना है कि ये महिलाएं या पूरुष उस भाषा विशेष का प्रयोग क्यूँ कर रहे है,
हरयानवी या हिन्दी मे तो आपके जे एल पर भी बातचीत नही होती। अगर आप ध्यान से देखें तो यहाँ पर 15% से अधिक लोग हिन्दी या हरयानवी का प्रयोग नही करते बातचीत मे। प्रमुख और महत्वपूरन मुद्दो पर बातचीत इंग्लिश मे ही होती है। अँग्रेजी भाषा मीडिया, राजनीति, सत्ता, बाजार, अकादेमिक्स कि भाषा है आपको ये स्वीकार करना पड़ेगा
।हालांकि मेरा बिन्दु यह है कि कोई किसी भाषा का प्रयोग करे महत्व पूर्ण ये है कि वो क्या कह रहा है...
मुझे अक्सर ही ये बातें समझ नही आती है कि
महिलाओ की आचरण सीमा किस किस बात से निर्धारित होती है???
क्या पूरुषों और महिलाओ के आचरण के अलग अलग मानदंड हैं???? ये दोगलापन क्यूँ है???
हेफनेर ने ब्याह क्यूँ करा पहलम या बात भी बताओ । अपने त आधी उम्र कि छोरी ने गोद ले लेता, उसने या अकल क्यूँ न आई???या उसके पास दौलत है तो वो उस उम्र मे ब्याह कर सकता है,या उसपर सवाल नही उठाए जा सकते?? उसकी वैल्यू सिस्टम क्या है???सवाल महिला पर ही क्यूँ है ???हमने(महिलाओं ने ) सारे ठेके ले रखे है, समाज, परम्पराओ, रीति रिवाजों के???

मॉडलिंग मे जावन आले छोरण त भी बुझियों अक्क बिचारे कितने एडजस्टमेंट (शारीरिक शोषण उनका भी होता है)करते हैं, पर उनको भी चार्म है शोहरत का चका चौंध का??? या इंडस्ट्री दोनों महिलाओ और पूरुषों के लिए ऐसी ही है।

साहित्य और फिल्मे समाज का पर्तिबिब्म होती है और होनी चाहिए , साहित्य जो रचा जाता है वो सही में समाज को पर्तिबिम्बित करता है और मुख्य उदेश्य समाज को उन्नति और गरिमा की तरफ ले जाने के लिए रचा जाता है , साहित्यकार एक बुद्धिजीवी इंसान होता है और वो इस कार्य को अपना कर्त्तव्य समझता है फिल्मे भी यही सब करती है , लेकिन जब फ़िल्मकार या साहित्यकार अपनी बूधी या कला का पर्योग केवल पैसा कमाने के लिए करने लगता है तो वो अपने मुलभुत उदेश्य से भटक जाता है , आजकल फ़िल्मकार और कुछ साहित्यकार भी अपनी कला या बुधि का पर्योग एक वयवसाय के रूप में करने लगे है धन के अलावा कुछ नहीं दिखाई देता , असल में उनकी जीविका का साधन यही है पर इसका मतलब ये नहीं होना चाहिए की मूल उदेश्य से आँखे बंद कर ले , यही कारन है की फिल्मो का असर उल्टा होने लगा है अब समाज में फिल्मे पर्तिबिम्बित होने लगी है ना की फिल्मो में समाज, क्या ये करीना कपूर , सहरावत और मलिका आदि अपनि वास्तविक जिन्दगी म एसा करना चाहेंगी , दूसरा ये सब कुछ पेसो के लिए हो रहा है ना की अपनी कला को निखारने या दिखाने के लिए यंहा पर मेरा एक और पॉइंट है की इस टॉपिक को क्यूँ महिला डीसकर्मिनेसन के एंगल से लिया जा रहा है इस सब के पीछे तो पुरुष प्रोडूसर और डारेकटर होते है इस सब के लिए ये महिलाये ही नहीं सारा सिस्टम उत्तेर्दायी है हर चीज की सीमा रेखा होती है

[AbhikRana]

Agree with most of your points. Even males like Honey Singh are spreading the malaise. Same can be said about the directors and producers who are spreading the filth in society. They are all in this muck together with these cheap item number girls.

Art no longer exists. Just cheapness being sold in the name of entertainment and being thrust upon everyone in the middle of News and TV breaks, on the billboards and posters, in the parties, etc.

Long live the hypocrites who would want their own children to not watch the filth, but would still be okay with and in fact vehemently defend the spread of this filth in society.


साहित्य और फिल्मे समाज का पर्तिबिब्म होती है और होनी चाहिए , साहित्य जो रचा जाता है वो सही में समाज को पर्तिबिम्बित करता है और मुख्य उदेश्य समाज को उन्नति और गरिमा की तरफ ले जाने के लिए रचा जाता है , साहित्यकार एक बुद्धिजीवी इंसान होता है और वो इस कार्य को अपना कर्त्तव्य समझता है फिल्मे भी यही सब करती है , लेकिन जब फ़िल्मकार या साहित्यकार अपनी बूधी या कला का पर्योग केवल पैसा कमाने के लिए करने लगता है तो वो अपने मुलभुत उदेश्य से भटक जाता है , आजकल फ़िल्मकार और कुछ साहित्यकार भी अपनी कला या बुधि का पर्योग एक वयवसाय के रूप में करने लगे है धन के अलावा कुछ नहीं दिखाई देता , असल में उनकी जीविका का साधन यही है पर इसका मतलब ये नहीं होना चाहिए की मूल उदेश्य से आँखे बंद कर ले , यही कारन है की फिल्मो का असर उल्टा होने लगा है अब समाज में फिल्मे पर्तिबिम्बित होने लगी है ना की फिल्मो में समाज, क्या ये करीना कपूर , सहरावत और मलिका आदि अपनि वास्तविक जिन्दगी म एसा करना चाहेंगी , दूसरा ये सब कुछ पेसो के लिए हो रहा है ना की अपनी कला को निखारने या दिखाने के लिए यंहा पर मेरा एक और पॉइंट है की इस टॉपिक को क्यूँ महिला डीसकर्मिनेसन के एंगल से लिया जा रहा है इस सब के पीछे तो पुरुष प्रोडूसर और डारेकटर होते है इस सब के लिए ये महिलाये ही नहीं सारा सिस्टम उत्तेर्दायी है हर चीज की सीमा रेखा होती है

[AbhikRana]

As stated earlier, please go ahead and start a new thread on actors instead of actresses. I assure you that you are fully entitled to do that.


Dear,

don't be so adamant. most of ur posts r on just Film actresses and woman. nd also u hv not answered my questions. i checked ur previous posts. none of them have the answer. so plz answer my questions.

cheers.

[singhvp]

मैंने कदापि यह नही कहा है कि यह चर्चा अन्य भाषाओ मे संभव नही है,, मैं स्वयं हिन्दी का प्रयोग कर रही हूँ। भाषा और अभिव्यक्ति , या फिर हिन्दी सहितय के विषय मे आपके जो भी विचार हैं मैं उनसे सहमत हूँ, मेरा बिन्दु सिर्फ यह था कि यह संभावना है कि ये महिलाएं या पूरुष उस भाषा विशेष का प्रयोग क्यूँ कर रहे है,
हरयानवी या हिन्दी मे तो आपके जे एल पर भी बातचीत नही होती। अगर आप ध्यान से देखें तो यहाँ पर 15% से अधिक लोग हिन्दी या हरयानवी का प्रयोग नही करते बातचीत मे। प्रमुख और महत्वपूरन मुद्दो पर बातचीत इंग्लिश मे ही होती है। अँग्रेजी भाषा मीडिया, राजनीति, सत्ता, बाजार, अकादेमिक्स कि भाषा है आपको ये स्वीकार करना पड़ेगा
।हालांकि मेरा बिन्दु यह है कि कोई किसी भाषा का प्रयोग करे महत्व पूर्ण ये है कि वो क्या कह रहा है...
मुझे अक्सर ही ये बातें समझ नही आती है कि
महिलाओ की आचरण सीमा किस किस बात से निर्धारित होती है???
क्या पूरुषों और महिलाओ के आचरण के अलग अलग मानदंड हैं???? ये दोगलापन क्यूँ है???
हेफनेर ने ब्याह क्यूँ करा पहलम या बात भी बताओ । अपने त आधी उम्र कि छोरी ने गोद ले लेता, उसने या अकल क्यूँ न आई???या उसके पास दौलत है तो वो उस उम्र मे ब्याह कर सकता है,या उसपर सवाल नही उठाए जा सकते?? उसकी वैल्यू सिस्टम क्या है???सवाल महिला पर ही क्यूँ है ???हमने(महिलाओं ने ) सारे ठेके ले रखे है, समाज, परम्पराओ, रीति रिवाजों के???

मॉडलिंग मे जावन आले छोरण त भी बुझियों अक्क बिचारे कितने एडजस्टमेंट (शारीरिक शोषण उनका भी होता है)करते हैं, पर उनको भी चार्म है शोहरत का चका चौंध का??? या इंडस्ट्री दोनों महिलाओ और पूरुषों के लिए ऐसी ही है।

चूंकि जाने-अनजाने समस्त पुरुष जाति को ही कटघरे में खड़ा किया जा रहा है, इसीलिए शायद लेखक ने औरत जाति को कर्तव्य बोध कराना आवश्यक समझा i हेफ्नर की बेमेल शादी के लिए अकेले हेफ्नर को कैसे दोषी ठहराया जा सकता है, क्या उस लड़की के साथ कोई जोर जबरदस्ती की गई है i खुल्लमखुल्ला दौलत के लालच में उसने शादी का ढोंग रचा कर हेफ्नर को लूटने का प्लान बनाया होगा i फिर ऐसी महिला को अबला नारी का खिताब कैसे दिया जा सकता है i इसी प्रकार की न जाने कितनी महिलाए और लडकियां छिछोरे दौलतमंदों की जीवन-शैली और ठाठ-बाठ से प्रभावित होकर अपनी मर्यादा, स्वाभिमान और यहाँ तक की इश्मत का सौदा कर लेती हैं i उन महिलाओं के इस आचरण से समाज का वातावरण दूषित होना स्वभाविक है i सिनेमा और मॉडलिंग के क्षेत्र में क्या यही सब नहीं हो रहा है i किसी एक या दो महिलाओं का क्या जिक्र करना, यहाँ तो आधे से ज्यादा महिला कलाकारों के लिए मर्यादा और सभ्यता बीते दिनों की बात और 'मिडिल-क्लास' मानसिकता बन चुकी है i क्या इस सबके लिए सिर्फ पुरुषों को ही जिम्मेदार माना जाये i

लेकिन यह भी सच है कि बलात्कार जैसे अपराधों के लिए उपरोक्त महिलाओं के आचरण का कोई लेना देना नहीं हैं i केवल करीना, मलायका या मल्लिका को इसके लिए जिम्मेदार ठहराना जल्दबाजी में दिया गया तर्क है i इन अपराधों के लिए सबसे ज्यादा जिम्मेदार हमारी नज़र में खोट और हमारी संयमहीनता है जो इस प्रकार के अपराधों को जन्म देती है i नंगा सच तो यह है की हमारे में से अधिकाँश दिल ही दिल में इनको और भी छोटे कपड़ों में देखना पसंद करेंगे i परन्तु अपने आप को चरित्रवान, सुसंस्कृत और जनेऊ-धारी शास्त्री जी जताने के चक्कर में सामाजिक मंच पर इनकी आलोचना करना हमारी मजबूरी है i हमारी शिक्षा प्रणाली भी दोषयुक्त है जो एक अदद नौकरशाह तो पैदा कर सकती है परन्तु एक जिम्मेदार नागरिक बनना नहीं सिखाती i शिक्षा प्रणाली में नैतिक शिक्षा पर अत्यधिक जोर दिया जाना चाहिए i

अगर हम वाकई इस विषय पर गंभीर हैं और आपको लगता है कि वेशभूषा हमारे यौनाचार को प्रभावित करती है तो वेशभूषा पर आचार संहिता के लिए लोकसभा में बहस के बाद कानून में प्रावधान करना पड़ेगा जिसमे यह निर्धारित करना पड़ेगा कि लडकियां किस माप के कपडे पहनेगी और कौनसा डिज़ाइनर इनको डिजाईन करेगा i अगर हम इस बारे में आचार संहिता नहीं बनवा सकते तो हमें कोई अधिकार नहीं कि हम बेबो को बिकिनी पहनने से मना करें i अगर बेबो और मल्लिका बिकिनी नहीं पहनेंगी तो उनको फिल्मे कहाँ से मिलेंगी i नीलम जी ने ठीक कहा था "आखिर तो वही परोसा जायेगा जो लोगों को पसंद आयेगा" i सो दोषी कौन हुआ ? आप ही बताएं i

[spdeshwal]

I feel like starting this thread all over again under a different heading!
I would like to rewrite the heading as " People like Mohan Bhagwat and Asha Ram are equally responsible for the death of Damini!
I don't intend to hurt the feelings of the members who respect and follow these people! I wrote what i genuinely believe about them after their recent statements!

Cheers!

[AbhikRana]

I am surprised that instead of blaming the half naked cheapsters spreading filth in the society, you are blaming the people who oppose the spread of filth in society. According to you the inspiration for the opposition is to show oneself in good light whereas the persons opposing actually want to see more nudity. Nothing can be more unfortunate than this statement/derived logic.

Our society has reformed over the ages:

1. Untouchability was widely prevalent in the earlier times, but it was opposed and the same was banished. There was a lot of demand/prevalence of this evil. Yet according to your logic Gandhiji opposed it to show himself in a good light.
2. Sati system was prevalent in the earlier ages, but it was opposed and the same was banished. This evil was widely prevalent. Yet by your logic Raja Ram Mohan Roy opposed it just to be in the limelight and show himself to be a saintly person.

I am afraid your logic does not hold water. By the same logic it can even be said that those defending cheapsters want to see more nudity and hence, they will defend the cheapsters tooth and nail.






चूंकि जाने-अनजाने समस्त पुरुष जाति को ही कटघरे में खड़ा किया जा रहा है, इसीलिए शायद लेखक ने औरत जाति को कर्तव्य बोध कराना आवश्यक समझा i हेफ्नर की बेमेल शादी के लिए अकेले हेफ्नर को कैसे दोषी ठहराया जा सकता है, क्या उस लड़की के साथ कोई जोर जबरदस्ती की गई है i खुल्लमखुल्ला दौलत के लालच में उसने शादी का ढोंग रचा कर हेफ्नर को लूटने का प्लान बनाया होगा i फिर ऐसी महिला को अबला नारी का खिताब कैसे दिया जा सकता है i इसी प्रकार की न जाने कितनी महिलाए और लडकियां छिछोरे दौलतमंदों की जीवन-शैली और ठाठ-बाठ से प्रभावित होकर अपनी मर्यादा, स्वाभिमान और यहाँ तक की इश्मत का सौदा कर लेती हैं i उन महिलाओं के इस आचरण से समाज का वातावरण दूषित होना स्वभाविक है i सिनेमा और मॉडलिंग के क्षेत्र में क्या यही सब नहीं हो रहा है i किसी एक या दो महिलाओं का क्या जिक्र करना, यहाँ तो आधे से ज्यादा महिला कलाकारों के लिए मर्यादा और सभ्यता बीते दिनों की बात और 'मिडिल-क्लास' मानसिकता बन चुकी है i क्या इस सबके लिए सिर्फ पुरुषों को ही जिम्मेदार माना जाये i

लेकिन यह भी सच है कि बलात्कार जैसे अपराधों के लिए उपरोक्त महिलाओं के आचरण का कोई लेना देना नहीं हैं i केवल करीना, मलायका या मल्लिका को इसके लिए जिम्मेदार ठहराना जल्दबाजी में दिया गया तर्क है i इन अपराधों के लिए सबसे ज्यादा जिम्मेदार हमारी नज़र में खोट और हमारी संयमहीनता है जो इस प्रकार के अपराधों को जन्म देती है i नंगा सच तो यह है की हमारे में से अधिकाँश दिल ही दिल में इनको और भी छोटे कपड़ों में देखना पसंद करेंगे i परन्तु अपने आप को चरित्रवान, सुसंस्कृत और जनेऊ-धारी शास्त्री जी जताने के चक्कर में सामाजिक मंच पर इनकी आलोचना करना हमारी मजबूरी है i हमारी शिक्षा प्रणाली भी दोषयुक्त है जो एक अदद नौकरशाह तो पैदा कर सकती है परन्तु एक जिम्मेदार नागरिक बनना नहीं सिखाती i शिक्षा प्रणाली में नैतिक शिक्षा पर अत्यधिक जोर दिया जाना चाहिए i

अगर हम वाकई इस विषय पर गंभीर हैं और आपको लगता है कि वेशभूषा हमारे यौनाचार को प्रभावित करती है तो वेशभूषा पर आचार संहिता के लिए लोकसभा में बहस के बाद कानून में प्रावधान करना पड़ेगा जिसमे यह निर्धारित करना पड़ेगा कि लडकियां किस माप के कपडे पहनेगी और कौनसा डिज़ाइनर इनको डिजाईन करेगा i अगर हम इस बारे में आचार संहिता नहीं बनवा सकते तो हमें कोई अधिकार नहीं कि हम बेबो को बिकिनी पहनने से मना करें i अगर बेबो और मल्लिका बिकिनी नहीं पहनेंगी तो उनको फिल्मे कहाँ से मिलेंगी i नीलम जी ने ठीक कहा था "आखिर तो वही परोसा जायेगा जो लोगों को पसंद आयेगा" i सो दोषी कौन हुआ ? आप ही बताएं i

[singhvp]

I am surprised that instead of blaming the half naked cheapsters spreading filth in the society, you are blaming the people who oppose the spread of filth in society. According to you the inspiration for the opposition is to show oneself in good light whereas the persons opposing actually want to see more nudity. Nothing can be more unfortunate than this statement/derived logic.

Our society has reformed over the ages:

1. Untouchability was widely prevalent in the earlier times, but it was opposed and the same was banished. There was a lot of demand/prevalence of this evil. Yet according to your logic Gandhiji opposed it to show himself in a good light.
2. Sati system was prevalent in the earlier ages, but it was opposed and the same was banished. This evil was widely prevalent. Yet by your logic Raja Ram Mohan Roy opposed it just to be in the limelight and show himself to be a saintly person.

I am afraid your logic does not hold water. By the same logic it can even be said that those defending cheapsters want to see more nudity and hence, they will defend the cheapsters tooth and nail.

In the mythological accounts of our sartorial behaviour, most of the protagonists in our holy epics were portrayed half-naked. Did the mere sight of their topless torso or the semi-naked curves of the females of those times ever prompt each other to indulge in any kind of rape? There is hardly any mention of rape in the historical accounts of our ancient civilization. Even now, one can see so many elderly people topless in our countryside rearing the buffaloes without arousing any sensuousness of their female counterparts. Much revered people like Gandhi ji’s experiments with truth are another testimony to the fact that it is all about self-control. If we have weak nerves and did not practice the art of self-control it is our fault, why to blame the female folks for our nervous weakness and cowardice behaviour. Frankly speaking, I have seen all sorts of movies including some from infamous Bollywood and Hollywood casting likes of Karina and other ‘baddies’ but not a single case of rape was ever registered against me.

No one seems to be preaching nudity here. But the question is who should be delegated the powers to define sartorial propriety. Can a particular section of society without any popular mandate unilaterally declare a war against those who do not wear clothes according to their taste? Who should be the right person in society to determine as to what should be the length of Karina’s mini skirt or what should be the width of the blouse his neighbour? You may suggest the modus operandi?

The situation is not analogous to the social reforms spearheaded by Raja Ram Mohan Roy. He was all for women empowerment and freedom and championed their cause in every field of life. The abolishing of Sati Pratha was a progressive step whereas prescribing 'burka' is a regressive one.

[kapdal]

All of us are guilty of giving this thread much more credit than it deserves. There are certain people, who would only say certain things; whatever the context or the issue. They are not interested in a reasonable debate. They are just interested in their own propaganda. All of us know who those people are on JL.

The starter of this thread has made it very clear that he is not interested in any other dimension to this debate in a response to another member. He asked that member to start a new thread if he wants to highlight another dimension. He just wants to highlight this point, that he has chosen to be the single most important point worthy of a debate. When someone gives counter arguments to his point (like there is no "cause and effect" between rapes and these actresess; or that actresses don't act on their own - they are part of a much bigger trend that involves most of the society), he questions those argument-makers' intent, character, etc. Basically, there is only one way you can participate on this thread. Just give two cheers to what is being propogated.

PS: Let me also add that the thread is far from its logical conclusion. The choice of the actresses in the title was not coincidental. One could wonder why two names got selected when almost every actress in India could be blamed for this crime, if this was one (why not Vidya Balan, Priyanka Chopra, etc. etc.)? And the answer lies in the choice of these two Hindu ladies' spouses. Ooops, sorry for spoiling the party......

[bsbana]

In the mythological accounts of our sartorial behaviour, most of the protagonists in our holy epics were portrayed half-naked. Did the mere sight of their topless torso or the semi-naked curves of the females of those times ever prompt each other to indulge in any kind of rape? There is hardly any mention of rape in the historical accounts of our ancient civilization.

Protagonists mostly belonged to lower castes like Nata. Indian society believed in segregation of castes in past. There were different rule for different castes. Kings used to keep their Harem full of concubines. Many lower caste women were forced not to cover their upper half in southern part of India. India was mostly Buddhist in past, after that it has gone through a phase of hedonism, which led to writing of Kamasutra, Ajanta/Alora caves,materialistic sects like Charvaka etc. Later Rajput Hinduism came in picture and then arrival of Islam in subcontinent.


Even now, one can see so many elderly people topless in our countryside rearing the buffaloes without arousing any sensuousness of their female counterparts.

There is a difference in sexuality of men and women but I think it has more to do with over-objectification of women in media which affect both male and female subconscious in different ways.


Much revered people like Gandhi ji’s experiments with truth are another testimony to the fact that it is all about self-control.

There are some controversies related to these experiments, not sure about truth in those controversies.


If we have weak nerves and did not practice the art of self-control it is our fault, why to blame the female folks for our nervous weakness and cowardice behaviour.

Less cloths alone are not reason of rape. People are raping minors, old women and even fully covered women but less cloths may be a factor too.

[spdeshwal]

All of us are guilty of giving this thread much more credit than it deserves. There are certain people, who would only say certain things; whatever the context or the issue. They are not interested in a reasonable debate. They are just interested in their own propaganda. All of us know who those people are on JL.

The starter of this thread has made it very clear that he is not interested in any other dimension to this debate in a response to another member. He asked that member to start a new thread if he wants to highlight another dimension. He just wants to highlight this point, that he has chosen to be the single most important point worthy of a debate. When someone gives counter arguments to his point (like there is no "cause and effect" between rapes and these actresess; or that actresses don't act on their own - they are part of a much bigger trend that involves most of the society), he questions those argument-makers' intent, character, etc. Basically, there is only one way you can participate on this thread. Just give two cheers to what is being propogated.

PS: Let me also add that the thread is far from its logical conclusion. The choice of the actresses in the title was not coincidental. One could wonder why two names got selected when almost every actress in India could be blamed for this crime, if this was one (why not Vidya Balan, Priyanka Chopra, etc. etc.)? And the answer lies in the choice of these two Hindu ladies' spouses. Ooops, sorry for spoiling the party......

यो हे ते रासा से कपिल !
कई आदमी आड़े जाटलैंड पर भी उससे टोल के लागें से जो हिन्दू धर्म ने बचान का ठेका ले रे सें !
बजरंग दल हनुमान सेना अर्र बेर न के के नाम धर रे सें !
जुकर ये टोल जाट हार्टलैंड रोहतक में न चाले नु आड़े भी न चालें ! या गारंटी से !

एक बार की बात बताऊँ इन नकली टोल आल्ल्या की :
रोहतक में भी या भेढ चाल सी चाली थी बजरंगदल की !
कई मोह्ल्याँ में बजरंगदल के टोल काबिज होगे !
एक टोल झझर रोड का भी बनगया आर उसका परधन एक पंजाबियाँ का छोरा बनगया !
वो वश्य कोलेज में पडया करता ! उड़े एक बनिया का छोरा भी पडया करता !
यो बजरंग दल का लीडर उह बनिया के लड़के की बहन पे बुरी नजर राख्या करता , आनदी जांदी ने तंग करता !
बनिए के छोरे ने समझाया की भाई रहंदे , तुन उन ते लीडर बनया हंडे से , समाज सुधर का ठेका ले र्य से, आंदी जांदी लाकियाँ ने तंग करे से !
उस पंजाबी ने बजरंगदल के कुछ और ढेढओन के साथ मिलके बनिया का छोरा समार दिया ! आर्य नगर पुलिस छोंकी में बात चली गई ! पुलिशया पिसे खागे ! उल्टा बनिया की छोरी पे दोष ल दिया, आक अपनी छोरी ने काबू में राखो ! बनियान का सार कुनबा परेसान! छोरा कई दिन कोलेज में भी ना गया ! उसकी क्लास में महम आर जुल्लाने कह्ना के घने जाट भी थे ! जिब वो छोरा कोलेज में गया , जिब उन् गामोली बाल्कन ने बेर लाग्या की क्यों वो कई दिन तन नहीं आया ! खबर असली बजरंगियान ने लाग गी थी ! बोले रे सेठ( उस लड़के ने व् सेठ कहा करते) चिंता न करे ! हाम सेन असली हनुमान के चेले , उनकी इस्सी राग भान देंगे, आगे ते किसे की छोरी केन्या लखा ते लियो ! आगे लिखन की जरुरत नहीं के होया ! वोहे होया , जिस काम में म्हारे बंदर माहिर सें ! वो एकला पंजाबी ही नहीं उसके सारे टोल आले बजरंग दल ने नमस्ते कहगे!

तो बार निचोड़ यो हे से, इन नकली बजरंगिय की बहकाई में म्हारे भी बालक/ मानस आरे सें ! नहीं ते यार या के बात हुई की इस मस्तंडे आशाराम अर्र मोहन भगवत जिस्याँ की बिना सर पैर की बातों का भी ये समर्थन कर रे सें ! डूब के मरण की बात से कति!

भाई रविंदर के तकिया कलम, सद्भावनाओं सहित !

[AnkurMalik]

As stated earlier, please go ahead and start a new thread on actors instead of actresses. I assure you that you are fully entitled to do that.

Mr Rana,

I know my right and privileges. Point is you don;t want to debate here. U r hell bent on imposing ur theory. so i m nt discussing wth u anyfurther. one must be open n shld listen to others.

Thanks

[ndalal]

eb bas band kar do es thread ne ..


16232

[AbhikRana]

I must first of all compliment for your style of writing.

How can you be so sure that rape did not happen in the so called mythological times? If something is not mentioned in the records, does that mean that it never happened?

As far as your comment on females getting aroused on seeing elderly half-dressed males involved in cattle herding, even I have not heard or seen that to be the trend in the urban areas or anywhere outside India.

Who says that watching cheap item numbers is a crime and that a rape case should be registered against you?

Vulgarity and cheapness like any other vice of society can be curbed more effectively by self restraint and good sense instead of just laws. No one can determine the size of the clothes to be worn except the person wearing them. It all boils down to decency and self restraint.

The equating of the expectation that the so - called celebrities do not remove clothes in public with 'Burka' is like taking things to the extreme. Both are extremes - Burka and being nude. It would be much better if we do not take any of these two extreme and live like civilized people and not like naked pre-historic individuals who lived in the caves.

Of course it is a democracy and a republic where people can remove as many clothes as they want. Similarly others in a society are well within their rights to have their views and opinions on this nudity in public.



In the mythological accounts of our sartorial behaviour, most of the protagonists in our holy epics were portrayed half-naked. Did the mere sight of their topless torso or the semi-naked curves of the females of those times ever prompt each other to indulge in any kind of rape? There is hardly any mention of rape in the historical accounts of our ancient civilization. Even now, one can see so many elderly people topless in our countryside rearing the buffaloes without arousing any sensuousness of their female counterparts. Much revered people like Gandhi ji’s experiments with truth are another testimony to the fact that it is all about self-control. If we have weak nerves and did not practice the art of self-control it is our fault, why to blame the female folks for our nervous weakness and cowardice behaviour. Frankly speaking, I have seen all sorts of movies including some from infamous Bollywood and Hollywood casting likes of Karina and other ‘baddies’ but not a single case of rape was ever registered against me.

No one seems to be preaching nudity here. But the question is who should be delegated the powers to define sartorial propriety. Can a particular section of society without any popular mandate unilaterally declare a war against those who do not wear clothes according to their taste? Who should be the right person in society to determine as to what should be the length of Karina’s mini skirt or what should be the width of the blouse his neighbour? You may suggest the modus operandi?

The situation is not analogous to the social reforms spearheaded by Raja Ram Mohan Roy. He was all for women empowerment and freedom and championed their cause in every field of life. The abolishing of Sati Pratha was a progressive step whereas prescribing 'burka' is a regressive one.

[AbhikRana]

I thought there were better forums to settle old scores and taking personal digs at the people one does not like.

I did not know that someone had taken the charge of representing the entire JL community and blaming the community for making this thread popular/unpopular.

Thanks for being judgmental and calling other's viewpoint as propaganda.

I think some people do not read the posts/replies in full or carefully or rather intentionally do selective reading because if they had read all the posts/replies honestly they would not have pointed fingers at the writer/initiator of this thread in sticking to one dimension. Men like Honey and Imran and the producers/directors of cheap item numbers are equally responsible for this muck. But I guess, somebody conveniently ignored reading it. After all, then one would have been left with less of gunpowder to fire (on this thread at someone).

Now questions being raised on why only two names being used in the title of this thread. The list as we all know is pretty long, but the space is limited. I am amazed at the conspiracy theory being propounded here: these two heroines being named because their husbands are muslims. It is this incomprehensible logic that is actually the propaganda which many a times the headline/sensation hungry media also cooks up.


All of us are guilty of giving this thread much more credit than it deserves. There are certain people, who would only say certain things; whatever the context or the issue. They are not interested in a reasonable debate. They are just interested in their own propaganda. All of us know who those people are on JL.

The starter of this thread has made it very clear that he is not interested in any other dimension to this debate in a response to another member. He asked that member to start a new thread if he wants to highlight another dimension. He just wants to highlight this point, that he has chosen to be the single most important point worthy of a debate. When someone gives counter arguments to his point (like there is no "cause and effect" between rapes and these actresess; or that actresses don't act on their own - they are part of a much bigger trend that involves most of the society), he questions those argument-makers' intent, character, etc. Basically, there is only one way you can participate on this thread. Just give two cheers to what is being propogated.

PS: Let me also add that the thread is far from its logical conclusion. The choice of the actresses in the title was not coincidental. One could wonder why two names got selected when almost every actress in India could be blamed for this crime, if this was one (why not Vidya Balan, Priyanka Chopra, etc. etc.)? And the answer lies in the choice of these two Hindu ladies' spouses. Ooops, sorry for spoiling the party......

[AbhikRana]

Really appreciate it. Thanks.


so i m nt discussing wth u anyfurther.

Thanks

[Arvindc]

I must first of all compliment for your style of writing.

How can you be so sure that rape did not happen in the so called mythological times? If something is not mentioned in the records, does that mean that it never happened?

As far as your comment on male comment on females getting aroused on seeing elderly half-dressed males involved in cattle herding, even I have not heard or seen that to be the trend in the urban areas or anywhere outside India.

Who says that watching cheap item numbers is a crime and that a rape case should be registered against you?

Vulgarity and cheapness like any other vice of society can be curbed more effectively by self restraint and good sense instead of just laws. No one can determine the size of the clothes to be worn except the person wearing them. It all boils down to decency and self restraint.

The equating of the expectation that the so - called celebrities do not remove clothes in public with 'Burka' is like taking things to the extreme. Both are extremes - Burka and being nude. It would be much better if we do not take any of these two extreme and live like civilized people and not like naked pre-historic individuals who lived in the caves.

Of course it is a democracy and a republic where people can remove as many clothes as they want. Similarly others in a society are well within their rights to have their views and opinions on this nudity in public.

The real question is, nature made man and woman without clothes, so why did humans started wearing clothes? Was it really for avoiding one to be seen as nude or for protection from heat, cold, germs etc?

[desijat]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lxEIQhsN2g

On a lighter note.

P.S. the singer is neither female nor from bollywood

[rinkusheoran]

Kitne logon k ghar mein ye bolajata a 'Beti sambhal kar jana' jab ladki ghar se bahar jaye lekin kisi k ghar mein sayad bola jata ki kisi ladke ko ki ladkiyon se thik se behave karna

A very anecdote that i would like to tell

On this very topic we were discussing and a friend of mine( engg and them MS in US) was advocating same things as said by many here.After some time a nice looking girls passes by and he said 'kya maal hai yaar' then i reminded him what he was saying few minutes back and he went silent.

Same thing applies to all of us. Jo dikhata hai vo bikta hai and dekhane wale hain hum and agar dekhane wale nhi hongey to bikna bhi band ho jayega.

[rinkusheoran]

I do, but asked you about Kareena's movies because I have seen her in many movies where she can be termed half naked. Kambakhat Ishq will be one of them to cite an example.
Ebb aap jaise usse na dekhatte uss movie mein to unka movie nuksan mein jati n sayad aagey nhi banati lekin afsos aap bhi enjoy kar gaye lekin vulgar sirf Kareeena ko keh rahe ho??

[rinkusheoran]

No doubt people with sick minds need to be put in mental asylums and not be allowed to roam around freely. These men have no respect for even the ladies in their family. Not only they, even their families are equally responsible for the sick minds of their boys/men.

Cheap women like Kareena Kapoor, Malaika Arora Khan, Malika Sherawat are equally responsible for the countless unfortunate incidents that happen with women in India. Cheap women like them through vulgar and titillating item numbers are corrupting the minds not only of the sick people but also the young and impressionable minds. What is equally shameful is the fact that people have come to accept this vulgar culture by playing those vulgar and titillating songs at their family functions.

What to talk of the advertising world? Show a scantily clad woman in the advt. of every product whether the presence of woman there is appropriate/relevant or not. A case in point is the advt. of Carlton Suitcase where they just show the legs of a woman dressed in a mini skirt. There are countless such advts., but seemingly no control over them.

In first para itself you gave the answers to your questions and after that it was not needed to call Malaika , Kareena or Malika as cheap. Many of people over here work happily in these same companies which shows woman half clad in skirts so what is suggestion to them?

[rinkusheoran]

A very Nice Article on this Issue By Chaudhary Hawa Singh Sangwanji

Rape Cases, Causes, Prevention And Punishment
(To : Justice Retired Usha Mehra Commission)
Hon’ble Madam,
As we know, there is a spate of rape cases all over India, which is shameful for all of us, as we live in a civilized society and a religious country developed in a mature democracy of the world, where woman is worshiped as a Goddess (यत्र नार्यस्तु पूज्यन्ते, रमन्ते तत्र देवता).
Rape is not concerned to age, caste and religion. It is completely concerned to the sick and loath mentality of a person. There are different types of cases of rape being reported almost daily from all over the country. For an example, a boy lure a girl and the girl willingly goes with the boy and have sex with him at an unknown place for some days but when she returns back to home, she can not face her parents and family, with the results, she has to accept under pressure that she was raped by the boy. Consequently, the matter is reported to the police and the girl is medically examined, found to be raped and subsequently a FIR is being lodged in the police station against the boy under section 376 IPC.
So we have to define the rape cases and accordingly, the punishment should be laid out.
Suggestion for chemical castration of the convict will not serve the purpose being it a reversible process which need a long follow up action by the trained doctors only. Moreover, it does not stand a permanent solution. Second suggestion for surgical castration seems a Talibani action which would not be acceptable by the majority of our society who always oppose such Talibani culture being our a civilized society. Secondly, such punishment would pitch a tag to the criminal to do other crimes with more madness. Moreover, it is unconstitutional also.
Case of Damini is a real and clear cut case of gang rape and murder which fall in the category of Rarest of the Rare for which the accused should be punished with death penalty. Further, we have to go in depth the causes stand responsible for such behaviour and crimes by our countrymen. We can’t depute the police behind every man and everywhere. Practically, action of the police starts as and when the case is reported. Therefore we have to take following measures :-
1. Preventive measures : (i)Main cause for such behaviour and crime is lay behind the filthy films and unsightly publicity, moreover on Internet, where blue films are loaded and very much accessible to everyone through mobile phone also. Youths are more influenced by these, resulting into more sickly mentality. Even legislators are being caught while seeing such films on mobile in the House. Then how we can keep away the common man or youths from this menace? Therefore, internet services require strict vigilance and filtration by the Govt.
(ii)Educational Institutions should also be served with some instructions for moral education as an compulsory subject.
(iii) The society is also not responding well in time to prevent such cases which is also most disappointing, for which a wide publicity is needed by the Govts.
(iv) Roll of the parents is also not as desired. They are responsible to teach moral values to their children from very beginning and need close supervision of their children. Character reflection of the parents clearly reflect in their children.
2. Curative Measures : As we know our courts are over burdened with the cases all over India where a case is lingering years to years with the results, witness/witnesses are deserted or died during the long process. Even complainants fed up with this long process and delayed hearings. Therefore, it is said that delayed justice is denied justice.
Therefore, it is suggested that Fast Track Courts should be established separately for rape cases at district level all over the country granting with the following limitations.
(i)Time bound registration of FIR as soon as the case is reported to the police, otherwise SHO should be held responsible and the punishment should be laid out thereto.

(ii) Time bound submission of the charge report before the court, otherwise SHO should be held responsible and the punishment should be laid out thereto.
(ii Time bound decision by the court into the case, otherwise judge should be held responsible and for which follow up action against the judge should be laid out.
(iv) Responsibility of the complainant to produce his(executive) witnesses before the court within the time as directed by the court should be laid out.
(v) Responsibility of the accused to produce his defence witnesses before the court within the time as directed by the court should be laid out.
(vi) Liability of court expenditures be born by the Govt. in case the accused is convicted, otherwise it should be born by the complainant.
(vii) A third person/persons who have helped the police to expose the rape case and helped into arrest the accused should be given incentive or be rewarded suitably, also to be laid out.
(viii) False and fabricated witnesses should also be punished separately by the court after pronouncing the verdict be also laid out.
Thanking you in anticipation,

Yours faithfully
Bhiwani
January 2nd, 2013 (Hawa Singh Sangwan),
Ex. Commandant, CRPF
(Social Activist)
Contact No. 094160-56145

[AbhikRana]

There are so many things which are saleable in the market today, but the society does not let them sell either because of the norms of the society or the laws. If we blindly follow the dictum 'Jo dikhta hae, woh bikta hae', everything would be up there on the shelf for sale including human dignity and life because then it would give rise to another dictum - 'have money, buy anything'. Unlike a civilized society with certain norms and standards, there would be utter anarchy and chaos - everybody would do what he/she pleases and at the same time give a damn to what the others think/say.

I am appalled by the fact that the mere expectation that a few cheapsters do not remove clothes (to the bare undergarments) in public has been called oppression.

No one in this entire thread mentioned/expressed that the real liberty comes through:

Equality in upbringing, education, sports, career, marriage choices, etc. for the girl child at par with the male child. Instead most of the female chauvinists here forcefully suggested that the only way to female liberty comes from nudity in public.

Instead of diktats or laws, this problem of public nudity can be sorted out by self restraint, introspection and deliberations in the society among all the sections.

Of course, there are other aspects to the problem of sexual violence and people are free to raise them as well either in this post or others. I have touched upon a few of them like change in the mindset, harsher and immediate punishment to the guilty, etc. These and other relevant points can certainly be elaborated upon by others.



In first para itself you gave the answers to your questions and after that it was not needed to call Malaika , Kareena or Malika as cheap. Many of people over here work happily in these same companies which shows woman half clad in skirts so what is suggestion to them?

[vicky84]

No doubt people with sick minds need to be put in mental asylums and not be allowed to roam around freely. These men have no respect for even the ladies in their family. Not only they, even their families are equally responsible for the sick minds of their boys/men.

Cheap women like Kareena Kapoor, Malaika Arora Khan, Malika Sherawat are equally responsible for the countless unfortunate incidents that happen with women in India. Cheap women like them through vulgar and titillating item numbers are corrupting the minds not only of the sick people but also the young and impressionable minds. What is equally shameful is the fact that people have come to accept this vulgar culture by playing those vulgar and titillating songs at their family functions.

What to talk of the advertising world? Show a scantily clad woman in the advt. of every product whether the presence of woman there is appropriate/relevant or not. A case in point is the advt. of Carlton Suitcase where they just show the legs of a woman dressed in a mini skirt. There are countless such advts., but seemingly no control over them.
ye kya likh diya Abhik Rana.

Khair ek baar ye video dekh liyo:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=455823457805728&set=vb.276436729109821&type=2&theater

[AbhikRana]

As Rahul Bose says, item numbers don’t cause rape. They just show an alarming disrespect for women
By Priya Bala Mar 19, 2013 12:56PM

The National Film Awards have been announced and it’s heartening to see that the films in the Wholesome Entertainment category are Vicky Donor, a very Bollywood flick, and Ustad Hotel in Malayalam. Interestingly, both films were written by women. Anjali Menon wrote Ustad Hotel, which focused on the bond between a young man who wants to be a chef and his grandfather. Vicky Donor, a light-hearted take on sperm donation, was by Juhi Chaturvedi.


And, thank god, not an item number between them. So, as all sensible audiences know, wholesome entertainment doesn’t have to include this piece of ‘entertainment’ that has become a must-have element in all mainstream cinema, whether from Bollywood, Tamil, Telugu or, more recently, Kannada.


What could possibly be entertaining about a top-of-the-line actress, wearing fewer than the bare necessities, gyrating, thrusting, heaving, frequently surrounded by a troupe that comprises leering men? The lyrics of the songs these actresses dance to border on the vulgar and often cross the line.


There are many who question their place in mainstream cinema. Actor and activist Rahul Bose has expressed his dislike of item numbers in several interviews and on Twitter there seems to have been a debate, implying that he said item numbers lead to rape. He’s had to clarify and say that he means only that these song-and-dance routines are disrespectful to women.


I see their impact as being far more noxious. It is the mostly repressed Indian male population that watches these songs. Doesn’t it colour the way they view women? If cinema objectifies women – and these women are widely worshipped actresses -- would some men not want to take their chances with those objects? And rape is only the extreme form of sexual harassment.


The filmmakers will not stop. Why would they, when the box-office registers are ringing so loudly. The actresses, who are also women, perhaps they should turn down the offer to be objectified and the crores that come with it. Or is that too much to ask?


Maybe it’s just us, the audiences who fill the multiplexes, who must say no to the item number whose insidious impact goes far beyond the cinema hall. We owe it to our women.

[AbhikRana]

Our political leadership believes its responsibility ends with making statements about the safety of women from time to time. Worse, politicians are even perpetrators of crimes against women. Meanwhile, women must, perforce, fend for themselves
By Priya Bala Apr 24, 2013 1:54PM
Another politician has offered a solution to the problem of offences against women. Former UP Chief Minister Kalyan Singh advocates women carry Rampuri chakus on their person as a means of protection. Of course, he attempted in the process to score a few political points, adding that this was necessitated by the government failing to ensure the safety of women.


Still, Mr Kalyan Singh can be given credit for at least offering a solution which Indian women may even find acceptable. After all, many now carry pepper spray along with the make-up kit in their handbags. Other politicians have been far more regressive when they decide to make statements after attacks on women. These range from ‘She asked for it’ -- clearly making character judgements -- to ‘She should have dressed conservatively’.



Indian politicians shouldn’t be the ones to talk. When I interviewed former DGP Jija Hari Singh for ‘Her Courage’ she was unequivocal in her view that politicians are one of the reasons for the escalating crimes against women. Politics is power and in many cases that power includes doing as they please with women. It’s an insidious way of thinking that begins at the top and trickles all the way down, prompting hordes of men with even tenuous political connections to harass and victimise women.


The ugly politician who makes unacceptable propositions to women is not just a character in our movies. He strides about in our midst, buffered by their political influence and assumed unassailability, forcing his attention and himself on unwilling women. Other women who have had to deal with politicians in the course of their work and journalists who follow politicians have told me this, too.


So, how are we to believe that action by our elected leaders will change things for Indian women? Manmohan Singh has said recently that a collective effort is needed to root out such depravity from society. How, Mr Prime Minister, is what every woman who worries for her safety is asking.


So, until the depravity is rooted out, will it be Rampuri chakus for all of us? And never mind that it’s a step back into barbarity.

[RSKharb]

Problem is of thinking, but either we change completely to western calture or follow our own calture, otherwise such problems/accusations will continue