Media Terrorism against Khaps and Jats

[tomar7]

The political marginalisation of Urban classes in Haryana has forced them to try to capture state power by alternate means i.e using the media. They aim to create antagonism b/w Jats and other sections of society, to be used for political leverage. Similar Coalition of extremes political model is used in other states i.e Brahmin, Bania joining with Poorest of dalits and muslims to keep others out of power. They are making an issue out of a non- issue and are somehow trying to indicate that Khaps are responsible for rapes.

Please take example of the recent incident about what SUBE SINGH allegedly said.

Please read the actual updated article by Deepender deswal about what KHAP actually said: (Mind that this was updated very late.)
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Haryana-khaps-oppose-death-penalty-to-rapists/articleshow/17837915.cms
But, this article was updated later on. Whole disinformation campaign to malign Jats and Khaps was put into gear before that. Some of the outrageous lies put forward were:

1. Tyagi, a journalist of Headlines today falsely claimed that Khaps said :90% of rape cases are false and consensual, also claimed that Khaps are opposed to any punishment to rapists. They never mentioned about meham-khap boycotting the rape-accused. This whole drama was shown in 9 PM Headlines Today TV Channel.

2. Times of India wrote a slanderous article misquoting and falsely attributing statements to Sube Singh claiming that they oppose death penalty because they want to protect the gangrape accused.
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-12-30/india/36063087_1_haryana-khap-khap-leader-death-penalty

3. Lies propagated by Indian express says "Khap don't want death penalty for the Delhi Rape accused".
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/khap-panchayats-shock-again-say-dont-want-death-penalty-for-the-six-delhi-gangrape-accused/1052347/

4. Similar vitriol was poured by all the TV channels and newspapers like HT,DNA etc purely for sensationalism and TRPs.

Please read the comments in all the articles calling Jats barbarians and animals because of false articles. Should we not stand up against this? I think Haryana will become another Khalistan due to these media lynch mobs who are hell bent on writing false things about the Jat community. Same tactics were used by newspapers such as Punjab Kesari in the 1980s against Jat-Sikhs to create public opinion against them.

Shiv sena people burn the offices of these newspapers and TV channels if they dare show any negative news about them. That is why they can never publish or show any slanderous or false propaganda against them!!! Khaps being easy targets are lynched by the media taliban. I oppose any misogynistic and backward decisions taken by Khap, but blaming them for what they did not do or did not say is outrageous and wrong.

ANY SOLUTIONS?

[AbhikRana]

It is more than evident that media look for excuses and opportunities to put the khaps in the dock. Last night the statement of Khap leader Sube Singh was in the news on almost all the TV news channels. In fact, the media is leaving no stone unturned to malign the oldest Jat institution in any and every way possible. Instead of actually doing research on what are khaps and their history, they conveniently term every notorious panchayat/village committee decision even in far away Bihar, West Bengal as Khap decision. No doubt, the act/behaviour of the media is nothing but mischievous

Though I might sound to be conspiracy theorist, I agree with you that this may be part of a larger gameplan of a few vested interests.

Having said all the above things, I to some extent feel that in a few cases the Khaps have got into the habit of putting their foot in their mouth. They should not be in a hurry to make a statement for this headline hungry media on every topic. On controversial topics, they can very well categorically tell the media that they are studying the issue/situation and would come out with a formal statement later on. And, of course followed with a more balanced/polished response.

It's not that Jats cannot be diplomatic and media savvy. If possible, they should better take/hire the services of media savvy PR professionals from within the community.



The political marginalisation of Urban classes in Haryana has forced them to try to capture state power by alternate means i.e using the media. They aim to create antagonism b/w Jats and other sections of society, to be used for political leverage. Similar Coalition of extremes political model is used in other states i.e Brahmin, Bania joining with Poorest of dalits and muslims to keep others out of power. They are making an issue out of a non- issue and are somehow trying to indicate that Khaps are responsible for rapes.

Please take example of the recent incident about what SUBE SINGH allegedly said.

Please read the actual updated article by Deepender deswal about what KHAP actually said: (Mind that this was updated very late.)
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Haryana-khaps-oppose-death-penalty-to-rapists/articleshow/17837915.cms
But, this article was updated later on. Whole disinformation campaign to malign Jats and Khaps was put into gear before that. Some of the outrageous lies put forward were:

1. Tyagi, a journalist of Headlines today falsely claimed that Khaps said :90% of rape cases are false and consensual, also claimed that Khaps are opposed to any punishment to rapists. They never mentioned about meham-khap boycotting the rape-accused. This whole drama was shown in 9 PM Headlines Today TV Channel.

2. Times of India wrote a slanderous article misquoting and falsely attributing statements to Sube Singh claiming that they oppose death penalty because they want to protect the gangrape accused.
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-12-30/india/36063087_1_haryana-khap-khap-leader-death-penalty

3. Lies propagated by Indian express says "Khap don't want death penalty for the Delhi Rape accused".
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/khap-panchayats-shock-again-say-dont-want-death-penalty-for-the-six-delhi-gangrape-accused/1052347/

4. Similar vitriol was poured by all the TV channels and newspapers like HT,DNA etc purely for sensationalism and TRPs.

Please read the comments in all the articles calling Jats barbarians and animals because of false articles. Should we not stand up against this? I think Haryana will become another Khalistan due to these media lynch mobs who are hell bent on writing false things about the Jat community. Same tactics were used by newspapers such as Punjab Kesari in the 1980s against Jat-Sikhs to create public opinion against them.

Shiv sena people burn the offices of these newspapers and TV channels if they dare show any negative news about them. That is why they can never publish or show any slanderous or false propaganda against them!!! Khaps being easy targets are lynched by the media taliban. I oppose any misogynistic and backward decisions taken by Khap, but blaming them for what they did not do or did not say is outrageous and wrong.

ANY SOLUTIONS?

[swaich]

I think its quite evident the media has painted quite a negative picture of the Khaps. And the people who dont know any better, believe it. Media rules today. As Abhik said, Jats have to get better at using media and PR.

May I suggest an idea? How about a short documentary on the history of Khaps? It can show the origin of Khaps and how closely linked it is with not-only Jat history but with a shared history of other communities of the regions. One can include interviews with educated and learned Jats who can talk well and explain the importance of Khaps for centuries. Include positive decisions of Khaps, recent ones and old ones. To be balanced, also cover some issues that have caste negative aspersions on Khaps and root cause reasons and biases that might have led to it.

And if the channels don't air such a documentary, social media can be used. FB and You Tube are tremendous media platforms and it literally takes only weeks to get a hundred thousand views if every JL member shares it.

I am sure JL has quite a few members who have the will and the experience to do something like this. This can be a good way to use alternate tactics and change people's perception of Khaps and Jats.

[phoolkumar]

Kai dinon se kahna nahin chahta tha but aaj kah raha hu, jab tak ye Bhappa PM rahega, Jats and Khaps inke target pe rahengi....ultimate solution yahi hai ki ye bhappa jitna jaldi PM pad se hat jaaye....humen utni hi jaldi is front pe chain ki saans aayegi......

rahi documentary ki baat......poori 3.5 ghante ki conference hui thi...Khaps and media ki ispe....jismen Khaps ke positive only aspects hi rakhe gaye they.....the conference is recorded in 30 parts....all of these 30 parts are accessbile from here: http://www.nidanaheights.com/media-videos.html

Where exactly on this page: Scroll down on left-column, until you reach a videos series titled as - "Roundtable discussion on viability of Khaps"....all 30 videos are there....

[Samarkadian]

I think its quite evident the media has painted quite a negative picture of the Khaps. And the people who dont know any better, believe it. Media rules today. As Abhik said, Jats have to get better at using media and PR.

May I suggest an idea? How about a short documentary on the history of Khaps? It can show the origin of Khaps and how closely linked it is with not-only Jat history but with a shared history of other communities of the regions. One can include interviews with educated and learned Jats who can talk well and explain the importance of Khaps for centuries. Include positive decisions of Khaps, recent ones and old ones. To be balanced, also cover some issues that have caste negative aspersions on Khaps and root cause reasons and biases that might have led to it.

And if the channels don't air such a documentary, social media can be used. FB and You Tube are tremendous media platforms and it literally takes only weeks to get a hundred thousand views if every JL member shares it.

I am sure JL has quite a few members who have the will and the experience to do something like this. This can be a good way to use alternate tactics and change people's perception of Khaps and Jats.

I ve tried that an year and half back. One friend and I are working on a project which might get support from History Channel. That is some another experience. Anyway even a small slide show about positive aspects of Khap's decision would do a lot. Thaty I started this thread[http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?30884-Collection-Khap-s-Positive-Social-Verdicts ] but issue is Jaspreet that people even among Jats are not concerned much. For the video we must ve collection of numerous positive work other than Khap history because media and uneducated jats ( about khaps) can be muted only by its actions taken.

[Samarkadian]

Kai dinon se kahna nahin chahta tha but aaj kah raha hu, jab tak ye Bhappa PM rahega, Jats and Khaps inke target pe rahengi....ultimate solution yahi hai ki ye bhappa jitna jaldi PM pad se hat jaaye....humen utni hi jaldi is front pe chain ki saans aayegi......

rahi documentary ki baat......poori 3.5 ghante ki conference hui thi...Khaps and media ki ispe....jismen Khaps ke positive only aspects hi rakhe gaye they.....the conference is recorded in 30 parts....all of these 30 parts are accessbile from here: http://www.nidanaheights.com/media-videos.html

Where exactly on this page: Scroll down on left-column, until you reach a videos series titled as - "Roundtable discussion on viability of Khaps"....all 30 videos are there....

Thats a funny as well as ridiculous blame shifting on the PM. Not expected from a person of scholary background like you.

Media needs victim and accused to make a sensation for audiences and TRP. I dont take them seriously as I put forward in another thread that we dont need to be in the accused box to clean our image. It is their issue of understanding.Real issue should be educating our own generation by whatsoever mean possible.

[phoolkumar]

I agree to ur views but I have the reasons when I say so.....its political angle to give a glance and you would get the answer....because without political back media can not target any community the way it is under concern of this discussion.....


Thats a funny as well as ridiculous blame shifting on the PM. Not expected from a person of scholary background like you.

Media needs victim and accused to make a sensation for audiences and TRP. I dont take them seriously as I put forward in another thread that we dont need to be in the accused box to clean our image. It is their issue of understanding.Real issue should be educating our own generation by whatsoever mean possible.

[Samarkadian]

I agree to ur views but I have the reasons when I say so.....its political angle to give a glance and you would get the answer....because without political back media can not target any community the way it is under concern of this discussion.....

Those reasons are assumptions and presumptions without any backing.

[phoolkumar]

Padhne wale jaante hain dear, ki ismen itni backing hai aur kitni nahin....baaki main is discussion ko Samar versus Phool nahin banana chahta....itne samjhdar aap bhi hain.....


Those reasons are assumptions and presumptions without any backing.

[Samarkadian]

Padhne wale jaante hain dear, ki ismen itni backing hai aur kitni nahin....baaki main is discussion ko Samar versus Phool nahin banana chahta....itne samjhdar aap bhi hain.....

Lets us know in detail if it is true. Its not me versus you rather what you propagate versus what I say.

[swaich]

I ve tried that an year and half back. One friend and I are working on a project which might get support from History Channel. That is some another experience. Anyway even a small slide show about positive aspects of Khap's decision would do a lot. Thaty I started this thread[http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?30884-Collection-Khap-s-Positive-Social-Verdicts ] but issue is Jaspreet that people even among Jats are not concerned much. For the video we must ve collection of numerous positive work other than Khap history because media and uneducated jats ( about khaps) can be muted only by its actions taken.

Appreciate your work, Samar. Many of us debate and discuss, only a few do something concrete on the ground.

I think the video or powerpoint can start with a dedicated slide or segment for each of the following questions:

1) What is a Khap? How old is it? How democratic is it? How many Khaps are there?
This section can include history, origins and draw similarities between Khap and the Pachayat system of governance. One needs to convey that just the word 'Khap' doesnt signify a homogeneous entity to bracket all Jats. There are various Khaps and each has authority with varying levels of influence.

2) Are all Khap members uneducated, old farmers?
This section can include pics with bio on prominent educated and young Khap members/heads. If aiming for a video, a short clip of a Khap member speaking eloquently in English can do. After all a pic is worth a thousand words and a video worth a million words. (Ok, I made up the latter)

3) Does Khap always take backward, medieval decisions? What is the Khap's view on child marriage, girl education, declining sex ratio etc?
The material from your thread will come in handy here. Whatever's lacking can be covered by actual interviews of Khap pradhans asking them opinions on the above and other sensitive issues.

The purpose here is to force the audience to think and evaluate for themselves. The video just has to provide food for thought and point them towards the right direction. That is how the media and news channels can be beaten at their own game.

We must also be careful not to indulge in any sort of negative comparison or throw mud on other communities or media. It defeats the purpose and spreads negativity. We need the media on our side but it has to be done cleverly.

And I think its the responsibility of every JL member to spread the word on such a video/docu once its made. If that requires spamming the inboxes of prominent Jats, so be it. That is the least we can do towards our community. JL has 20k members. If even 10k receive emails of video links and only a further 5k share it on FB, it will go a long way.

[Samarkadian]

Appreciate your work, Samar. Many of us debate and discuss, only a few do something concrete on the ground.

I think the video or powerpoint can start with a dedicated slide or segment for each of the following questions:

1) What is a Khap? How old is it? How democratic is it? How many Khaps are there?
This section can include history, origins and draw similarities between Khap and the Pachayat system of governance. One needs to convey that just the word 'Khap' doesnt signify a homogeneous entity to bracket all Jats. There are various Khaps and each has authority with varying levels of influence.

2) Are all Khap members uneducated, old farmers?
This section can include pics with bio on prominent educated and young Khap members/heads. If aiming for a video, a short clip of a Khap member speaking eloquently in English can do. After all a pic is worth a thousand words and a video worth a million words. (Ok, I made up the latter)

3) Does Khap always take backward, medieval decisions? What is the Khap's view on child marriage, girl education, declining sex ratio etc?
The material from your thread will come in handy here. Whatever's lacking can be covered by actual interviews of Khap pradhans asking them opinions on the above and other sensitive issues.

The purpose here is to force the audience to think and evaluate for themselves. The video just has to provide food for thought and point them towards the right direction. That is how the media and news channels can be beaten at their own game.

We must also be careful not to indulge in any sort of negative comparison or throw mud on other communities or media. It defeats the purpose and spreads negativity. We need the media on our side but it has to be done cleverly.

And I think its the responsibility of every JL member to spread the word on such a video/docu once its made. If that requires spamming the inboxes of prominent Jats, so be it. That is the least we can do towards our community. JL has 20k members. If even 10k receive emails of video links and only a further 5k share it on FB, it will go a long way.

Yes, thats exactly what I am trying to say. This format of slideshow is good and a few other things could be added for simple and proper explaination without being complex.

Like you said in bold and underlined quote, we don't need to do it for explaining our system to others or media as a reply to their criticism but from a point of view that our own people get it first. It is like saying that our baap was great because he was our baap irrespective of what other tag him as bad or worse. Its inside out.

Lets share more and more positive social verdicts of Khaps other than that on the thread and make an attractive powerpoint slide as no one else would do it for us.

[ravinderjeet]

Thats a funny as well as ridiculous blame shifting on the PM. Not expected from a person of scholary background like you.

Media needs victim and accused to make a sensation for audiences and TRP. I dont take them seriously as I put forward in another thread that we dont need to be in the accused box to clean our image. It is their issue of understanding.Real issue should be educating our own generation by whatsoever mean possible.


इन्ने जो करणा स करण लगरे सें । बिल्ली के आँख मींचें तें के दुनिया देखना बंद कर देगी । यो लोग रोज की बातचीत में भी जट्टो को बदनाम करते हैं । इब्ब में दिल्ली गया जब मेट्रो में एक भाप्पा कई बालकां ने धमकान लाग्र्या "पाछे ने मर्ल्यो ने ,आपनी भाण गुडाओ सो आड़े "। आर फेर वे अपनी झंगी पंजाबी में बतलान लग्गे।इब्ब बदनाम कुण होया ?सुनानिया ते न्यू-ए सोचेगा ना अक कोए बेवकूफ जाट स जो भुंडा बोले स ।यु-ए हाल मीडिया का स । उन् ने सनसनी फेलानी स , बदनाम जाट होंदे हों ,ते होए जाओ ।क्यूंकि उन्न ने इह कौम तें किहे भी ढाल के विरोध का डर नि स ।तोमर ने जो शिवसेना आली बात कही स वा कति सही स ।

[phoolkumar]

This is the way of approaching....better you would have debated in this way with your very first post on my view.....lets first see on what basis you say that "Those reasons are assumptions and presumptions without any backing." .....I think it would be better for me to know this angle first....else it will again take me 4-5 posts extra to get you back on line of debate rather putting baseless comments.....Thanks


Lets us know in detail if it is true. Its not me versus you rather what you propagate versus what I say.

[phoolkumar]

Watch out the chain of videos, which I have mentioned in my very first comment on this chain.....they have powerpoint slides as well as details oral description all.......though these kind of presentations should be more and more, as much possible as much we could make....
Appreciate your work, Samar. Many of us debate and discuss, only a few do something concrete on the ground.

I think the video or powerpoint can start with a dedicated slide or segment for each of the following questions:

1) What is a Khap? How old is it? How democratic is it? How many Khaps are there?
This section can include history, origins and draw similarities between Khap and the Pachayat system of governance. One needs to convey that just the word 'Khap' doesnt signify a homogeneous entity to bracket all Jats. There are various Khaps and each has authority with varying levels of influence.

2) Are all Khap members uneducated, old farmers?
This section can include pics with bio on prominent educated and young Khap members/heads. If aiming for a video, a short clip of a Khap member speaking eloquently in English can do. After all a pic is worth a thousand words and a video worth a million words. (Ok, I made up the latter)

3) Does Khap always take backward, medieval decisions? What is the Khap's view on child marriage, girl education, declining sex ratio etc?
The material from your thread will come in handy here. Whatever's lacking can be covered by actual interviews of Khap pradhans asking them opinions on the above and other sensitive issues.

The purpose here is to force the audience to think and evaluate for themselves. The video just has to provide food for thought and point them towards the right direction. That is how the media and news channels can be beaten at their own game.

We must also be careful not to indulge in any sort of negative comparison or throw mud on other communities or media. It defeats the purpose and spreads negativity. We need the media on our side but it has to be done cleverly.

And I think its the responsibility of every JL member to spread the word on such a video/docu once its made. If that requires spamming the inboxes of prominent Jats, so be it. That is the least we can do towards our community. JL has 20k members. If even 10k receive emails of video links and only a further 5k share it on FB, it will go a long way.

[Samarkadian]

This is the way of approaching....better you would have debated in this way with your very first post on my view.....lets first see on what basis you say that "Those reasons are assumptions and presumptions without any backing." .....I think it would be better for me to know this angle first....else it will again take me 4-5 posts extra to get you back on line of debate rather putting baseless comments.....Thanks

I meant that let us know the involvement of PM and govt in this media thing. Support your initial argument of PM and govt with your backing and reasons which you claimed. If you are not able to support it then it would be merely taken as your own prejudices about PM being a Bhapa. So let us know in detail. Establish your case.

[swaich]

Ravi ji and Phool Kumar ji, with all due respect to both of you and your experience, most of our discussions get bogged down by a blame game. We end up blaming the govt., media, other communities and what not. But that hasn't led us anywhere. It does tell us about the stereotypes people have about Jats and the kind of adjectives used for Jats but we are still unable to counter it.

Worse still, is the last option suggested by Mr. Tomar. It is indeed the last option and hinges on desperation. Jats dont want to act like Shiv Sena because that will be like playing into the hands of those who dont like Jats. They propagate the notion that Jats are uneducated, violence prone and backward. And by attacking media offices or journalists we would only be solidifying those notions. Moreover, Shiv Sena is virtually toothless outside of Mumbai and if Jats wish to conquer the world we have to stop thinking about following the antics of such 'gali ke sher' organizations.

So we have to be smart about this. Rajpal Dular ji shares numerous anti-Congress, anti-sham secular pics and memes/captioned pictures. Without being sarcastic, that is creativity right there! Why cant something similar be put together that is pro-Jats? We need creative people who are also adept at using web tools and social media. Create webpages, memes, pictures with captions. It has to be witty, positive and informative. Once it is picked up by social media, it will become popular on its own.

To give you an example, I dont know how many of us have seen it, but on FB and YT there are videos on the joke about "12 baj gaye' on Sikhs. People have actually gone out and made videos that bust such myths and reverse the tables on people who make such jokes. Those videos are nothing fancy but connect with the youth and make people think.

Another thing, based on my interactions, I have a feeling many young, educated, urban, professional Jats are uncomfortable with the fact that they are Jats. They wish to disassociate themselves from the rural Jats and everything that connects them to Khaps, backwardness etc. The negative perceptions held by people and propagated by media have made them conscious of their identity and wish not to bring it up. We need a change in mindset of these people. As Samar alluded, we must first start internally. Show our younger, urban, upwardly mobile generation the pride associated with being Jats. We have to show them that its nothing to hide. Every community has positives and negatives. Jats just need to focus on their positives as the negatives have been covered enough by the media.

[swaich]

Yes, thats exactly what I am trying to say. This format of slideshow is good and a few other things could be added for simple and proper explaination without being complex.

Like you said in bold and underlined quote, we don't need to do it for explaining our system to others or media as a reply to their criticism but from a point of view that our own people get it first. It is like saying that our baap was great because he was our baap irrespective of what other tag him as bad or worse. Its inside out.

Lets share more and more positive social verdicts of Khaps other than that on the thread and make an attractive powerpoint slide as no one else would do it for us.

Agree. We have to start from within.

I do not know how far ahead on the road to making such an output you are. But when you get time, can you share any video/ppt that is under construction or a work in progress? We can reassess what it needs and possible lead it to completion? It might require less effort than to start from scratch.

[AbhikRana]

Ravinderjeet ji,

This prejudice against Jats exists in almost the entire North India.

During one of my visits to Punjab, I have personally seen a saini lady from Punjab saying in a very disparaging manner "Jattan Warga". Of course, I felt offended and told her that even I was a Jat. She subsequently felt sorry, but then the arrow had already left the bow.


इन्ने जो करणा स करण लगरे सें । बिल्ली के आँख मींचें तें के दुनिया देखना बंद कर देगी । यो लोग रोज की बातचीत में भी जट्टो को बदनाम करते हैं । इब्ब में दिल्ली गया जब मेट्रो में एक भाप्पा कई बालकां ने धमकान लाग्र्या "पाछे ने मर्ल्यो ने ,आपनी भाण गुडाओ सो आड़े "। आर फेर वे अपनी झंगी पंजाबी में बतलान लग्गे।इब्ब बदनाम कुण होया ?सुनानिया ते न्यू-ए सोचेगा ना अक कोए बेवकूफ जाट स जो भुंडा बोले स ।यु-ए हाल मीडिया का स । उन् ने सनसनी फेलानी स , बदनाम जाट होंदे हों ,ते होए जाओ ।क्यूंकि उन्न ने इह कौम तें किहे भी ढाल के विरोध का डर नि स ।तोमर ने जो शिवसेना आली बात कही स वा कति सही स ।

[phoolkumar]

1) When he became PM of India first time in 2005 and as he was not an MP from Loksabha but Rajyasabha, he was offered to contest from Rohtak as at that time Rohtak seat was vacant because Senior Hooda was moved to chair of CM of Haryana......But PM refused to be representative from a Jat dominant seat.... hope you know this fact.......
2) 1984 anti-sikh riots happened under the government of Bhajan Lal in Haryana and was a mass reaction as result of assessination of the then PM Indira Gandhi....but it was launched and still today seen or launched as Jats versus Sikh riots....which you can also see in looking Delhi state government structure.....where no Jats is in any kind of cabinet.....and that too even after Jats being the natives of Delhi.....and more than 15% of population....

Fact is that this all game of media is played with the hidden agenda of dividing society as Jats versus non-jats and to evoke them to take laws in their hands and then to repeat the 1984, but this time rest of the society against Jats......rest is your personal views on how you see these observations......

QUOTE=Samarkadian;328881]I meant that let us know the involvement of PM and govt in this media thing. Support your initial argument of PM and govt with your backing and reasons which you claimed. If you are not able to support it then it would be merely taken as your own prejudices about PM being a Bhapa. So let us know in detail. Establish your case.[/QUOTE]

[phoolkumar]

Jats ke pass social achievements, measurements and references ka koi system hi nahin hai, jiski vjaha se koi bhi gaon se oothkar city mein ja ke thodi si bhi personal development kar leta hai to apne aap ko caste se ooper maan baithata hai....aur as you said wish karne lag jata hai ki main Jats ke tab se kaise pind chhutaaun......
Ravi ji and Phool Kumar ji, with all due respect to both of you and your experience, most of our discussions get bogged down by a blame game. We end up blaming the govt., media, other communities and what not. But that hasn't led us anywhere. It does tell us about the stereotypes people have about Jats and the kind of adjectives used for Jats but we are still unable to counter it.

Worse still, is the last option suggested by Mr. Tomar. It is indeed the last option and hinges on desperation. Jats dont want to act like Shiv Sena because that will be like playing into the hands of those who dont like Jats. They propagate the notion that Jats are uneducated, violence prone and backward. And by attacking media offices or journalists we would only be solidifying those notions. Moreover, Shiv Sena is virtually toothless outside of Mumbai and if Jats wish to conquer the world we have to stop thinking about following the antics of such 'gali ke sher' organizations.

So we have to be smart about this. Rajpal Dular ji shares numerous anti-Congress, anti-sham secular pics and memes/captioned pictures. Without being sarcastic, that is creativity right there! Why cant something similar be put together that is pro-Jats? We need creative people who are also adept at using web tools and social media. Create webpages, memes, pictures with captions. It has to be witty, positive and informative. Once it is picked up by social media, it will become popular on its own.

To give you an example, I dont know how many of us have seen it, but on FB and YT there are videos on the joke about "12 baj gaye' on Sikhs. People have actually gone out and made videos that bust such myths and reverse the tables on people who make such jokes. Those videos are nothing fancy but connect with the youth and make people think.

Another thing, based on my interactions, I have a feeling many young, educated, urban, professional Jats are uncomfortable with the fact that they are Jats. They wish to disassociate themselves from the rural Jats and everything that connects them to Khaps, backwardness etc. The negative perceptions held by people and propagated by media have made them conscious of their identity and wish not to bring it up. We need a change in mindset of these people. As Samar alluded, we must first start internally. Show our younger, urban, upwardly mobile generation the pride associated with being Jats. We have to show them that its nothing to hide. Every community has positives and negatives. Jats just need to focus on their positives as the negatives have been covered enough by the media.

[ravinderjeet]

[QUOTE=phoolkumar;328896]1) When he became PM of India first time in 2005 and as he was not an MP from Loksabha but Rajyasabha, he was offered to contest from Rohtak as at that time Rohtak seat was vacant because Senior Hooda was moved to chair of CM of Haryana......But PM refused to be representative from a Jat dominant seat.... hope you know this fact.......
2) 1984 anti-sikh riots h

अखबार के पन्ने पे लिखे को जो सच समझते हैं ,वे उनकी नादानी हैं ,जो पन्ने के पीछे अनलिखा हे ,उसको पढ़ सके वो ग्यानी हे ।

[phoolkumar]

To bhai ji, aap bhi is fact ko jaante hain ki, PM ne Rohtak se MP banna refuse kiya thaa.....???
[QUOTE=phoolkumar;328896]1) When he became PM of India first time in 2005 and as he was not an MP from Loksabha but Rajyasabha, he was offered to contest from Rohtak as at that time Rohtak seat was vacant because Senior Hooda was moved to chair of CM of Haryana......But PM refused to be representative from a Jat dominant seat.... hope you know this fact.......
2) 1984 anti-sikh riots h

अखबार के पन्ने पे लिखे को जो सच समझते हैं ,वे उनकी नादानी हैं ,जो पन्ने के पीछे अनलिखा हे ,उसको पढ़ सके वो ग्यानी हे ।

[ravinderjeet]

[QUOTE=phoolkumar;328914]To bhai ji, aap bhi is fact ko jaante hain ki, PM ne Rohtak se MP banna refuse kiya thaa.....???


हाँ ,उसको शायद 5 जगह में से कहीं से भी चुनाव लड़ने के लिए कहा गया था । उसमे रोहतक भी एक था ।

[Samarkadian]

1) When he became PM of India first time in 2005 and as he was not an MP from Loksabha but Rajyasabha, he was offered to contest from Rohtak as at that time Rohtak seat was vacant because Senior Hooda was moved to chair of CM of Haryana......But PM refused to be representative from a Jat dominant seat.... hope you know this fact.......
2) 1984 anti-sikh riots happened under the government of Bhajan Lal in Haryana and was a mass reaction as result of assessination of the then PM Indira Gandhi....but it was launched and still today seen or launched as Jats versus Sikh riots....which you can also see in looking Delhi state government structure.....where no Jats is in any kind of cabinet.....and that too even after Jats being the natives of Delhi.....and more than 15% of population....

Fact is that this all game of media is played with the hidden agenda of dividing society as Jats versus non-jats and to evoke them to take laws in their hands and then to repeat the 1984, but this time rest of the society against Jats......rest is your personal views on how you see these observations......

QUOTE=Samarkadian;328881]I meant that let us know the involvement of PM and govt in this media thing. Support your initial argument of PM and govt with your backing and reasons which you claimed. If you are not able to support it then it would be merely taken as your own prejudices about PM being a Bhapa. So let us know in detail. Establish your case.[/QUOTE]

Okay now we have your reasons which you termed as facts.

1. You are projecting that even if he was offered but he did not choose it? Why did he not choose it because it was a jat dominated consitutuency and he got mad in his mind to take a revenge from jats through TOI and other sources of media ? Okay make sense? No, not at all. anything substantial in your claim of his involvement or merely he is a Bhapa and he thought to revenge ?

2. Why there is no Jat in cabinet in Delhi and Why media is against us through PM? Makes sense , No, not at all again. Riots were not Jats and Sikhs but Congress workers versus sikhs. What PM has to do against Jats in that?

[swaich]

Jats ke pass social achievements, measurements and references ka koi system hi nahin hai, jiski vjaha se koi bhi gaon se oothkar city mein ja ke thodi si bhi personal development kar leta hai to apne aap ko caste se ooper maan baithata hai....aur as you said wish karne lag jata hai ki main Jats ke tab se kaise pind chhutaaun......


Could you please elaborate what you mean by measurements and references? How is it different in the case of Jats as compared to other rural or semi-rural communities

[phoolkumar]

I have put my views in a poetric way, and you may also respond to points raised in this poem:

जवाब दियो म्यरे, धीरज तें:

मैं थारा वंशज सूं दादा, जवाब दियो म्यरे, धीरज तें,
नरम लक्ष्य (soft target) क्यूँ बणी खाप जो लोकतंत्र रही सदियाँ तें?

दाणन्द का स्य्धांत आर्यसमाज, मनै ब्यरासत म्ह थारी पाया,
जडै भी आर्यों के मेळए भरे, सबतें अगाड़ी मन्नें भरया हुम्बाया|
ज्यन्दगी के च्यार पड़ाव, 25-25 साल्ले थाह्म-नैं-ए यू पढवाया,
फेर 16 साल म्ह ब्याह करण का, यू फर्मुल्ला क्याँ नैं सुझाया?
इह्सा के घोळ बेठ ग्या थारे भीतर म्ह, डरे थम क्याँ तें?
मैं थारा वंशज सूं दादा, जवाब दियो म्यरे, धीरज तें,

चाऊमीन के इह्सा, घी-दूध तें भी बाध्धू होग्या?
अर कूण खा चाऊमीन, मैडल हमनें द्य्वाग्या?
दूध के बालल्ट तै थारे लाल्लां नैं, ढोल्लाँ ओज दिए,
फेर भी कहो, लोच्छर बाहर के खाणे नैं खो दिए?
आशिकी टपकै बाहरले खाणे म्ह, फेर हीर-रांझे आये कड़े तें?
मैं थारा वंशज सूं दादा, जवाब दियो म्यरे, धीरज तें,

गाम-गोत की स्यक्षा पोहंचे धुर लग, इसके जाब्ते के थारे?
लोकतंत्र थारा ईतणा लचीला, बोतल ज्यूँ ब्यना डाट की रे|
भों कोए स्यन्गर ले थारे पै, स्याणा हो चाहे कुतरू काहल का रे,
चुल्हे आळी चिमनी थमनें, खुल्ली छोड राख्खी ब्यना छतरी के?
के साहनी-के मीडिया, बूँद सी टपका दें-घर भर ज्या धुम्में तें|
मैं थारा वंशज सूं दादा, जवाब दियो म्यरे, धीरज तें,

या दुनियां खसमां नैं खाणी, क्यूँ खसम इसके थम हो रे?
मूर्ती-स्मारक थामनें बणाए नीह, फेर भी सारे थारे स्यर हो रे|
सारे बणा रे ब्यन होयें भी, थामें होंदें-होंदें भी क्यूँ ब्यखो रे?
औरां के लिए बणा भतेरे, इब आपणयाँ की सोधी ले ल्यो रे|
के बतावांगे आगै थारे नातियाँ नैं, अक म्हारे बड्डे थे कूण-कड़े तें?
मैं थारा वंशज सूं दादा, जवाब दियो म्यरे, धीरज तें,

बलात्कारी हो चहे पेट म्ह मारणिया, दुष्ट तै दुष्ट हो सै,
कलानौर की बोर काढणियो, या बोर एक और काढणी होरी सै|
बीर सस्कै थारे होंदें, बताओ या कुणसी धाड़ आण पड़ी सै?
फुल्ले-भगत दुखी हो टंडवाळऐ कोळा, यू गड्या कुणसी खूंट सै?
खापलैंड की रूह कांपती, याह लगी ब्यछोह कुणसी अळसेट तें?
मैं थारा वंशज सूं दादा, जवाब दियो म्यरे, धीरज तें,
नरम लक्ष्य क्यूँ बणी खाप जो लोकतंत्र रही सदियाँ तें?





Could you please elaborate what you mean by measurements and references? How is it different in the case of Jats as compared to other rural or semi-rural communities

[phoolkumar]

Political point of view se is fact ko samjhne ki kosis kijiye....rest maine mere point ke support mein facts rakh diye hain....aap inmen kuchh aur dekhte hain to aapki point of view hai.....aur meri aapse different....so its ok, itni difference of opinion chalti hai....

with due respect to you Samar, this is my last response to you....I would be responding wherever I find necessary, even on your posts and views too but for this post...I think whatever I wanted to say with you...I have said....

Okay now we have your reasons which you termed as facts.

1. You are projecting that even if he was offered but he did not choose it? Why did he not choose it because it was a jat dominated consitutuency and he got mad in his mind to take a revenge from jats through TOI and other sources of media ? Okay make sense? No, not at all. anything substantial in your claim of his involvement or merely he is a Bhapa and he thought to revenge ?

2. Why there is no Jat in cabinet in Delhi and Why media is against us through PM? Makes sense , No, not at all again. Riots were not Jats and Sikhs but Congress workers versus sikhs. What PM has to do against Jats in that?[/QUOTE]

[Samarkadian]

That is fact, agree but where is the substance which establish that it is going against Jats through media on the directions of Bhapa PM?

I ve no issues whether you reply or not. Suit yourself Phool.


Political point of view se is fact ko samjhne ki kosis kijiye....rest maine mere point ke support mein facts rakh diye hain....aap inmen kuchh aur dekhte hain to aapki point of view hai.....aur meri aapse different....so its ok, itni difference of opinion chalti hai....

with due respect to you Samar, this is my last response to you....I would be responding wherever I find necessary, even on your posts and views too but for this post...I think whatever I wanted to say with you...I have said....

Okay now we have your reasons which you termed as facts.

1. You are projecting that even if he was offered but he did not choose it? Why did he not choose it because it was a jat dominated consitutuency and he got mad in his mind to take a revenge from jats through TOI and other sources of media ? Okay make sense? No, not at all. anything substantial in your claim of his involvement or merely he is a Bhapa and he thought to revenge ?

2. Why there is no Jat in cabinet in Delhi and Why media is against us through PM? Makes sense , No, not at all again. Riots were not Jats and Sikhs but Congress workers versus sikhs. What PM has to do against Jats in that?[/QUOTE]


I have put my views in a poetric way, and you may also respond to points raised in this poem:

जवाब दियो म्यरे, धीरज तें:

मैं थारा वंशज सूं दादा, जवाब दियो म्यरे, धीरज तें,
नरम लक्ष्य (soft target) क्यूँ बणी खाप जो लोकतंत्र रही सदियाँ तें?

दाणन्द का स्य्धांत आर्यसमाज, मनै ब्यरासत म्ह थारी पाया,
जडै भी आर्यों के मेळए भरे, सबतें अगाड़ी मन्नें भरया हुम्बाया|
ज्यन्दगी के च्यार पड़ाव, 25-25 साल्ले थाह्म-नैं-ए यू पढवाया,
फेर 16 साल म्ह ब्याह करण का, यू फर्मुल्ला क्याँ नैं सुझाया?
इह्सा के घोळ बेठ ग्या थारे भीतर म्ह, डरे थम क्याँ तें?
मैं थारा वंशज सूं दादा, जवाब दियो म्यरे, धीरज तें,

चाऊमीन के इह्सा, घी-दूध तें भी बाध्धू होग्या?
अर कूण खा चाऊमीन, मैडल हमनें द्य्वाग्या?
दूध के बालल्ट तै थारे लाल्लां नैं, ढोल्लाँ ओज दिए,
फेर भी कहो, लोच्छर बाहर के खाणे नैं खो दिए?
आशिकी टपकै बाहरले खाणे म्ह, फेर हीर-रांझे आये कड़े तें?
मैं थारा वंशज सूं दादा, जवाब दियो म्यरे, धीरज तें,

गाम-गोत की स्यक्षा पोहंचे धुर लग, इसके जाब्ते के थारे?
लोकतंत्र थारा ईतणा लचीला, बोतल ज्यूँ ब्यना डाट की रे|
भों कोए स्यन्गर ले थारे पै, स्याणा हो चाहे कुतरू काहल का रे,
चुल्हे आळी चिमनी थमनें, खुल्ली छोड राख्खी ब्यना छतरी के?
के साहनी-के मीडिया, बूँद सी टपका दें-घर भर ज्या धुम्में तें|
मैं थारा वंशज सूं दादा, जवाब दियो म्यरे, धीरज तें,

या दुनियां खसमां नैं खाणी, क्यूँ खसम इसके थम हो रे?
मूर्ती-स्मारक थामनें बणाए नीह, फेर भी सारे थारे स्यर हो रे|
सारे बणा रे ब्यन होयें भी, थामें होंदें-होंदें भी क्यूँ ब्यखो रे?
औरां के लिए बणा भतेरे, इब आपणयाँ की सोधी ले ल्यो रे|
के बतावांगे आगै थारे नातियाँ नैं, अक म्हारे बड्डे थे कूण-कड़े तें?
मैं थारा वंशज सूं दादा, जवाब दियो म्यरे, धीरज तें,

बलात्कारी हो चहे पेट म्ह मारणिया, दुष्ट तै दुष्ट हो सै,
कलानौर की बोर काढणियो, या बोर एक और काढणी होरी सै|
बीर सस्कै थारे होंदें, बताओ या कुणसी धाड़ आण पड़ी सै?
फुल्ले-भगत दुखी हो टंडवाळऐ कोळा, यू गड्या कुणसी खूंट सै?
खापलैंड की रूह कांपती, याह लगी ब्यछोह कुणसी अळसेट तें?
मैं थारा वंशज सूं दादा, जवाब दियो म्यरे, धीरज तें,
नरम लक्ष्य क्यूँ बणी खाप जो लोकतंत्र रही सदियाँ तें?

Even in the poetic sense you tend to see,imagine and portray it like a victim of media and I really wish that Dada reply back but that is merely a wish.

[Arvindc]

....
Another thing, based on my interactions, I have a feeling many young, educated, urban, professional Jats are uncomfortable with the fact that they are Jats. They wish to disassociate themselves from the rural Jats and everything that connects them to Khaps, backwardness etc. The negative perceptions held by people and propagated by media have made them conscious of their identity and wish not to bring it up. We need a change in mindset of these people. As Samar alluded, we must first start internally. Show our younger, urban, upwardly mobile generation the pride associated with being Jats. We have to show them that its nothing to hide. Every community has positives and negatives. Jats just need to focus on their positives as the negatives have been covered enough by the media.

Yes, the first step of improvement is to accept that there is a scope of improvement. That there may be something that should be changed for better and that there must be something that must be strengthened for best.

I favor a calm acceptance of the criticism, without bowing to it. Listening a bit deeper inside the criticism, by putting the ego (one's own mind) aside for a moment, helps in introspection.

Our paths, however, must​ be guided by our strengths and not by criticism.

[tomar7]

Few days ago A Tamil Brahmin made the statement "Dalits cannot be allowed to be trained as priests since they are less clean than Brahmins". Imagine if a Jat had made similar statement, whole Media would have gone into Jat-bashing mode. I Think that only one newspaper which focusses more on news and less on sensationalism is THE HINDU, and is still reporting Khaps in a fair manner. We should welcome such fair criticism.

[ssgoyat]

one more brutal attempt in today's TOI

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Khap-bans-jeans-and-T-shirts-for-girls-in-Hisar/articleshow/17933563.cms

(Comment from one reader)

Misleading Headline. 1. It is not a KHAP Panchayat, It is only a village panchayat. KHAP word added by journalist for more views. 2. Banning of liquor must be appreciated. Most of rowdy elements and anti social behavior in villages is due to liquor. 3. However, Banning of jeans is a retrograde decision and should be opposed. 4. For those who do not know what DJ PARTY means, it is a event where all rowdy elements gather under the influence of alcohol and play sh**ty songs like HONEY SINGH. So, decision to ban it is also good.

[desijat]

1) W
2) 1984 anti-sikh riots happened under the government of Bhajan Lal in Haryana and was a mass reaction as result of assessination of the then PM Indira Gandhi....but it was launched and still today seen or launched as Jats versus Sikh riots....which you can also see in looking Delhi state government structure.....where no Jats is in any kind of cabinet.....and that too even after Jats being the natives of Delhi.....and more than 15% of population....
[/QUOTE]

Delhi Cabinet is fairly small, just 6 or so ministers so to accomodate each cast will be a difficult task, no? By the way I am not sure if you have heard of Mr. Yoganand Shashtri who has not only always been a minister but is speaker of Vidhan Sabha right now.

[desijat]

On the topic I believe that the fault lies with-in us, yes!

Khaps are an institution and we behave like one, responsibly but often either can not communicate or end up communicating a lot. If you take a note of controversies they have been often sparked by small time leader trying to seek attention and it was onus to punish them, not doing to only encourages more small time leaders to speak again.

We cant tell media how to behave, nor should we even try to but we must manage our communications effectively. Let us start by having designated speakers for Khaps only who shall speak to media. I have seen many good and educated speakers, I wonder why cant we restrict ourselves to just them?

[Arvindc]

On the topic I believe that the fault lies with-in us, yes!

Khaps are an institution and we behave like one, responsibly but often either can not communicate or end up communicating a lot. If you take a note of controversies they have been often sparked by small time leader trying to seek attention and it was onus to punish them, not doing to only encourages more small time leaders to speak again.

We cant tell media how to behave, nor should we even try to but we must manage our communications effectively. Let us start by having designated speakers for Khaps only who shall speak to media. I have seen many good and educated speakers, I wonder why cant we restrict ourselves to just them?

Also, in Media, Police, Advocates and Courts etc money plays a big role. No wonder if they speak against institutions which has no money.

Wondering if we should start funding Khaps?? May be required in this capitalist era.

[Arvindc]

I meant that let us know the involvement of PM and govt in this media thing. Support your initial argument of PM and govt with your backing and reasons which you claimed. If you are not able to support it then it would be merely taken as your own prejudices about PM being a Bhapa. So let us know in detail. Establish your case.

As for the central government, the case is well established from the news articles. Read my post #5 (http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?35455-Critical-analysis-of-NGO-Shakti-Vahini-treatment-on-Honor-Killing&p=329524&viewfull=1#post329524) of the thread "Critical analysis of NGO Shakti-Vahini treatment on Honor Killing (http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?35455-Critical-analysis-of-NGO-Shakti-Vahini-treatment-on-Honor-Killing)"

[desijat]

Also, in Media, Police, Advocates and Courts etc money plays a big role. No wonder if they speak against institutions which has no money.

Wondering if we should start funding Khaps?? May be required in this capitalist era.

Fund for what?

Also, it will end up creating a divide among khaps.

[Arvindc]

Fund for what?

Also, it will end up creating a divide among khaps.

Fund for bribing so called legal courts for the sake for sustaining age old democratic norms for the real people.

[tomar7]

Hahaha. That reader is me.
one more brutal attempt in today's TOI

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Khap-bans-jeans-and-T-shirts-for-girls-in-Hisar/articleshow/17933563.cms

(Comment from one reader)

Misleading Headline. 1. It is not a KHAP Panchayat, It is only a village panchayat. KHAP word added by journalist for more views. 2. Banning of liquor must be appreciated. Most of rowdy elements and anti social behavior in villages is due to liquor. 3. However, Banning of jeans is a retrograde decision and should be opposed. 4. For those who do not know what DJ PARTY means, it is a event where all rowdy elements gather under the influence of alcohol and play sh**ty songs like HONEY SINGH. So, decision to ban it is also good.

[anilphogat]

This was a good effort by you, we should keep posting good works/contributions of Jats and Khaps, and reply any bad comments related to Jats with critical reasoning not by desi style( teri asie ki tesi types)...Now in cyber world where every online member is trying to put hate commets against each other..TOI(paid media) is specially very bad in moderating comments..THE HINDU is best in this case and handling news items..