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DrRajpalSingh
April 28th, 2013, 01:24 AM
The term 'History' is used frequently but what is its meaning, is not understood easily.

In this discussion an effort would be made to make its meaning clear and comprehensively

cover all aspects necessary to understand the way historical events are perceived and history is written.

Kindly join discussion !

DrRajpalSingh
April 28th, 2013, 01:25 AM
History is a branch of knowledge that deals with past events, the formal record or study of past events especially human affairs.

DrRajpalSingh
April 28th, 2013, 12:34 PM
History is a branch of knowledge that deals with past events, the formal record or study of past events especially human affairs.



History is the philosophy of transitoriness. All its assertions are relative to time and place. All its postulates have reference to particular situations and circumstances. Therefore, it is one’s duty to penetrate through the superficial connotation of passing character to the profound significance of enduring nature.

DrRajpalSingh
April 30th, 2013, 01:36 PM
The study of History is essential to any country and any person

to understand one's own development process.

DrRajpalSingh
April 30th, 2013, 01:40 PM
Names of History in various languages :

Istoria [Greek],

Historia [Latin],

Histoire [French],

History [English],

Geschichite [German],

Tarikh [Arabic], and,

Itihas [Sanskrit].

DrRajpalSingh
April 30th, 2013, 01:45 PM
Names of History in various languages :

Istoria [Greek],

Historia [Latin],

Histoire [French],

History [English],

Geschichite [German],

Tarikh [Arabic], and,

Itihas [Sanskrit].

There are various conceptions as regards the definition such as history is a record of the past events, history is knowledge, history is science, and a few persons even perceive that history is not a worthy subject of study.

Nonetheless, history shows that at the same time, it is humanistic, consists of events, concerned with change, time and place oriented, scientific and an independent branch of study.

DrRajpalSingh
April 30th, 2013, 01:50 PM
History is a record of past of human experiences that links the past to the present and the future.

It gives ideas on chronological framework for organising historical thought and places significant ideas,

institutions,people and events within the time frame.

ravinderjeet
April 30th, 2013, 04:06 PM
History is a record of past of human experiences that links the past to the present and the future.

It gives ideas on chronological framework for organising historical thought and places significant ideas,

institutions,people and events within the time frame.

which are the veriable and constent fectors in history?

DrRajpalSingh
April 30th, 2013, 06:41 PM
The subject matter of history is reflected in the human experiences of the past and promotes a better understanding of the present. Therefore, historical writing is based upon inquiry into available and accessible sources upon scientific analysis of the facts. In a bid to present the facts as they are, the historian analyses the available facts and also provides an analysis or interpretation of the facts. But he has to to perform the role of an honest judge while writing his findings as there is no scope of universal acceptance for subjective writing. Hence, objective history based on facts.

Thanks

DrRajpalSingh
April 30th, 2013, 08:28 PM
History is not pure science but comes under the domain of Social Sciences that deals with the social and cultural aspects of human behaviour through the ages.

It has some features of both a science and an art, that is why it is known as social science.

It is science to the extent that it employs scientific methods of enquiry to seek the truth; and,

it is an art with regard to the subject treatment, method of composition and intellectual utility.

There is a misconception which arises due to over stressing on the non-utility value of the history as compared with the pure sciences.


Thanks.

DrRajpalSingh
May 1st, 2013, 02:59 PM
History presents a picture of the march of human beings from time immemorial

and

the development of multi-faceted activity of human society.

History is a record of human experiences that links the past to the present and the future.

Thanks.

DrRajpalSingh
May 1st, 2013, 09:27 PM
Historian belongs not to the past but to the present.


----------E.H. Carr, What is History.

Ambijat
May 1st, 2013, 09:47 PM
Here is something that I would like to share. The connections beyond South Asia and how we should look at the links of the past. Toponymy is one important discipline that tells a lot about the origin of name of a place. I have come across numerous places named Dhaka ranging from Afghanistan to Bangladesh. Russians were good explorers in this discipline here is one interesting piece of article.
http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/40_Language/Toponymy/BisebaevA_AncientTurkicScythianToponymsEn.htm

best wishes,
Ambrish Dhaka

DrRajpalSingh
May 3rd, 2013, 07:40 AM
Historian belongs not to the past but to the present.


----------E.H. Carr, What is History.

The two threads may kindly be considered for merging in one at one forum to smoothen the discussion.

For earlier part of discussion on the issue, see : Let us Discuss What is History (http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?33899-Let-us-Discuss-What-is-History/page8)

lrburdak
May 3rd, 2013, 08:17 AM
.....I have come across numerous places named Dhaka ranging from Afghanistan to Bangladesh. Russians were good explorers in this discipline here is one interesting piece of article.
http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/40_Language/Toponymy/BisebaevA_AncientTurkicScythianToponymsEn.htm

best wishes,
Ambrish Dhaka

Ambrishji, where is Dhaka in the link provided by you. Can you reproduce here. Though going through the content I found Barda of Turkish origin.

Ambijat
May 3rd, 2013, 11:38 AM
This article is not about the toponymy of Dhaka. I suggested it to make case for pluralism in Central Asia existed right since earliest times, so to tell that any monolithic model of community origin should be expanded in favour of pluralistic origin of Jats.
References are village Kam-i-Dhaka in Lalpur district, nearly 15 kilometers ahead of Khyber Pass into Afghanistan. Then Pakistan has few, though I am not in exact knowledge of it. In India, one is in Ludhiana, another one in north delhi, not to speak many of them in western UP and Rajasthan. There is one in BIhar and the easternmost one is in Bangladesh.

Ambijat
May 3rd, 2013, 11:41 AM
Also you might have not noticed that the author while giving the hermeneutics of the word Turk refers that -k as suffix is used to denote plural form of the word Tur. So, if you can invoke that argument for Barda, then Bardak becomes plural of Barda which is far closer to Burdak.
:-)

DrRajpalSingh
May 3rd, 2013, 08:22 PM
which are the veriable and constent fectors in history?

Bhai Ravinderjeet Singh Balhara,

History is a branch of social sciences and keeps on revising earlier conclusions inserting

newer findings based on newer sources and giving newest interpretation to the earlier

records in the light of the progress of knowledge and to keep it updated for understanding

the past and planning for the future. Now you can yourself deduct what is what in history!


Further, Though history does not fall in the category of pure sciences yet

science contributes in a big way to make understanding of history in a better way.

Certain misunderstanding regarding dating of old remains of flora and fauna,

buildings and monuments, pieces of art and artifacts or the type of metal used,

ratio of different metals used, type of colour used in painting a picture etc.

have been successfully removed with the use of innovative techniques of science.

To remove the deficiency faced by C14 [carbon dating] system, the latest scientific

Technique known as PARTICLE INDUCED X-RAY EMISSION [PIXE] has emerged.

This technique is widely used technique in Archaeology, biology, geology and environmental

sciences.

Thanks and regards

maddhan1979
May 3rd, 2013, 08:36 PM
Bhai Ravinderjeet Singh Balhara,

Though history does not fall in the category of pure sciences yet

science contributes in a big way to make understanding of history in a better way.

Certain misunderstanding regarding dating of old remains of flora and fauna,

buildings and monuments, pieces of art and artifacts or the type of metal used,

ratio of different metals used, type of colour used in painting a picture etc.

have been successfully removed with the use of innovative techniques of science.

To remove the deficiency faced by C14 [carbon dating] system, the latest scientific

Technique known as PARTICLE INDUCED X-RAY EMISSION [PIXE] has emerged.

This technique is widely used technique in Archaeology, biology, geology and environmental

sciences.


Great, i hope science keeps on opening new doors in and for past, present and future.

DrRajpalSingh
May 3rd, 2013, 08:42 PM
To remove the deficiency of accuracy in fixing the dates of old remains faced by C14

[carbon dating] system, the latest scientific technique known as PARTICLE INDUCED X-RAY EMISSION [PIXE]
has emerged.

For example, if one applies PIXE to analyse the pre-historic times coins, it will help in determining the metal

content[type of metal present in the coin] and the contents of metal proportions used in minting the coin.

In the same way, painting analysis is also successfully carried out by application of PIXE i.e. to determine the type

of colour, pigments used at the creation of the painting and depth profile colour.

No wonder, it is also used in detection of faint letters in historically important books [Manuscripts].

Hence history writing is immensely using progress of pure sciences discoveries to make their findings/

conclusions as much fact based as possible.

But this must not be taken to mean that History has become a branch of pure/applied/natural science;

fact of the matter is history is related with study of man and remains in the realm of social science, art and humanities.


Thanks and regards.

DrRajpalSingh
May 13th, 2013, 04:54 PM
One has to contain one's habit of jumping at once to derive conclusion on merely one

shred of evidence regarding the remote past.


For proper appreciation of the past events one has to judiciously weigh

the evidences collected, analyse them and then try to establish cross contact

with the known accepted historic dates/events, if any.


The archaeological evidences and traditions as enshrined in old literary

works must also be taken into consideration to draw tangible results.

DrRajpalSingh
May 14th, 2013, 08:28 AM
While using ancient Indian literature scholars generally consider Puranas as myths and legends and Mahabharata as History.

But the word couple 'Itihas-Purana' is mentioned in various ancient books like Upanishads, Puranas and Mahabharata. To

understand the importance of subjects like Itihas-Purana, see, what Yajnavalkya in Brihadaranyaka Upanishad [B.U. 2.4.10] says:

''Itihas and Purana are among those subjects which were created by God himself.''

DrRajpalSingh
May 14th, 2013, 10:08 PM
While using ancient Indian literature scholars generally consider Puranas as myths and legends and Mahabharata as History.

But the word couple 'Itihas-Purana' is mentioned in various ancient books like Upanishads, Puranas and Mahabharata. To

understand the importance of subjects like Itihas-Purana, see, what Yajnavalkya in Brihadaranyaka Upanishad [B.U. 2.4.10] says:

''Itihas and Purana are among those subjects which were created by God himself.''

The word couple, Itihas [iti-ha-asa or itiha-as] and Purana [Pura i.e. old or Ancient] came into currency during the time of Vyas, who reorganised the Puranas and dictated the Jaya [itihas] to Ganesa.

Purana, the Ancient History up to the time of their reorganisation during his times; but for their updation it was decided to keep on adding to them subsequent progress too. It was also decided that for future additions to old Purana section, Sauti will continue to remain the symbolic narrator and history of future kings from that time onwards would be narrated in future tense even though recorded after the event.

The word Itihas was used for 'current' history. In this sense the Jaya [later grew to be Mahabharata] that recorded as contemporary history became first book of Itihas whereas Puranas conveyed the meaning of Ancient History.

Irrespective of this thin differentiation, the couple words 'Purana-Itihas' used as a subject of study in ancient times, continued to be used to convey meaning complementary to each other i.e. History.

DrRajpalSingh
May 16th, 2013, 10:43 PM
Friends,

The key to understanding history lies in the understanding the chronological order

of events. In this regard, proto historic and prehistoric times, we have no definite

information of so many events and persons about whom references appear in

tradition recorded later on. The mess is caused in the matter due to existence

of so many calendars and eras. So far Indian scenario in this regard is concerned,

the situation is not better.

Therefore, it is necessary for a student of ancient history of India

to know how the chronology of Ancient Indian History has been fixed and

how the same could be judged again by applying latest tools of research.

Kindly share your views on the ancient Indian chronology as available in text books and their authenticity or otherwise !

Thanks and regards.

maddhan1979
May 17th, 2013, 06:47 AM
Friends,

The key to understanding history lies in the understanding the chronological order

of events. In this regard, proto historic and prehistoric times, we have no definite

information of so many events and persons about whom references appear in

tradition recorded later on. The mess is caused in the matter due to existence

of so many calendars and eras. So far Indian scenario in this regard is concerned,

the situation is not better.

Therefore, it is necessary for a student of ancient history of India

to know how the chronology of Ancient Indian History has been fixed and

how the same could be judged again by applying latest tools of research.

Kindly share your views on the ancient Indian chronology as available in text books and their authenticity or otherwise !

Thanks and regards.


Archaeology, carbon dating, recovering of artifacts, ,monuments etc. are the only way of verifying history and connecting history to facts, rest is plain vestigial interest laden misinformation and crap. This misinformation and crap is driven by monetary motives and bad interests.

DrRajpalSingh
May 17th, 2013, 09:04 AM
Archaeology, carbon dating, recovering of artifacts, ,monuments etc. are the only way of verifying history and connecting history to facts, rest is plain vestigial interest laden misinformation and crap. This misinformation and crap is driven by monetary motives and bad interests.

Numismatics [the study of coins] is another very important and dependable source used for fixation of chronology.

In addition it serves to study inner and external trade and commerce activities, relations between the neighbouring states,

economic status of the concerned ruler, development of technology of minting, languages used, iconography engraved etc.etc.

Many a tribal republican kingdoms like Yaudheyas. Kuninadas, Arjunayans etc. and ruling dynasties like Saka and Kushanas have

been studied on the base of numismatic evidences in India.

DrRajpalSingh
May 30th, 2013, 12:40 PM
What is history:

It may be that universal history is the history of the different intonations given to a handful of metaphors.

--J.L.Borges

Thanks

DrRajpalSingh
June 1st, 2013, 10:20 AM
Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. ---George Santayana

DrRajpalSingh
June 7th, 2013, 08:05 PM
History is not information that is handed down unchanged from generation to generation.

Historical situation need to be explained and explanations draw on analyses of the evidence,

providing generalisations that derive from the logic of the argument. With new evidence or

fresh interpretations of existing evidence, a new understanding of the past can be achieved.
----------------Romila Thapar

urmiladuhan
August 13th, 2013, 05:38 AM
Regarding Indian History, it is common observation that there is quite a bit of nudity in sculpture form. So much so that even temples and Buddhist viharas and female deities are frequently adorned this way. Why does our history lay so much emphasis on female body?



History is the philosophy of transitoriness. All its assertions are relative to time and place. All its postulates have reference to particular situations and circumstances. Therefore, it is one’s duty to penetrate through the superficial connotation of passing character to the profound significance of enduring nature.

DrRajpalSingh
August 13th, 2013, 06:46 AM
Regarding Indian History, it is common observation that there is quite a bit of nudity in sculpture form. So much so that even temples and Buddhist viharas and female deities are frequently adorned this way. Why does our history lay so much emphasis on female body?

A Hindi proverb goes: Jaisi drishti, vaisi srishti !!!

In addition to 'nudity in sculpture form' so many aesthetic aspects are also available in abundance in our ancient art; now it is up to the onlooker what he/she wants to gaze upon in our rich cultural heritage !

urmiladuhan
August 13th, 2013, 07:01 AM
why not as much nudity in male form? Is it a reflection of the male psyche of the society?



A Hindi proverb goes: Jaisi drishti, vaisi srishti !!!

In addition to 'nudity in sculpture form' so many aesthetic aspects are also available in abundance in our ancient art; now it is up to the onlooker what he/she wants to gaze upon in our rich cultural heritage !

DrRajpalSingh
August 13th, 2013, 07:24 AM
why not as much nudity in male form? Is it a reflection of the male psyche of the society?

You are free to draw your own inferences !

urmiladuhan
August 13th, 2013, 07:32 AM
I thought you wanted to have a discussion! And now you don't ?

Regards,

Urmila.


You are free to draw your own inferences !

DrRajpalSingh
August 15th, 2013, 03:31 PM
Friends,

The key to understanding history lies in the understanding the chronological order

of events. In this regard, proto historic and prehistoric times, we have no definite

information of so many events and persons about whom references appear in

tradition recorded later on. The mess is caused in the matter due to existence

of so many calendars and eras. So far Indian scenario in this regard is concerned,

the situation is not better.

Therefore, it is necessary for a student of ancient history of India

to know how the chronology of Ancient Indian History has been fixed and

how the same could be judged again by applying latest tools of research.

Kindly share your views on the ancient Indian chronology as available in text books and their authenticity or otherwise !

Thanks and regards.

Regarding the Vedas it is said that they have been perpetuated by oral tradition till the time they were collected and arranged by a school or schools of learned persons of which the nominal head was Krishna Dvaipayana Vyasa, the Indian Pisistratus. Vyasa, who flourished in the early part of the pre-Mahabharata War period and continued to live in post Mbt period, with others, having collected and arranged the 'revealed scriptures', taught them to some of his disciples like the Rik to Paila, the Yajus to Vaisampayana, the Saman to Jaimini, and the Atharvan to Sumantu, and they in like manner taught to their disciples, who again in their turn communicated their knowledge to their pupils.

swaich
August 15th, 2013, 05:13 PM
I see every history related thread filled with mentions of epics and literary sources, all of which may or may not be reliable as source of accurate historical knowledge.

I am not a trained historian as many here, but how do we figure out what is pure literary/poetic embellishment in an epic or a Purana and what is accurate historical description? Isn't quoting the Vedas and Puranas fraught with danger as their motive was to serve as religious/philosophical texts rather than give an historical account to the reader?

Evaluating for historical accuracy, I would certainly give more weightage to a trader or a traveller's account like a Marco Polo, Al Bureni, Hieuen Tsang's rather than a Ved, Purana or Mahabharata.

swaich
August 15th, 2013, 05:44 PM
Regarding Indian History, it is common observation that there is quite a bit of nudity in sculpture form. So much so that even temples and Buddhist viharas and female deities are frequently adorned this way. Why does our history lay so much emphasis on female body?

I think its pretty evident that our ancient culture celebrated the female form. The artistic appreciation of the female body is used in paying odes to Gods as one finds in the temples of Khajuraho. And yes, I believe you are right in your observation that the male form doesn't receive the same importance. This is something different from other ancient societies of the West. The Greeks and the Romans have plenty of such examples in according importance to the male body. I am not sure of other contemporary Asian cultures like the Persians though.

The question that intrigues me more is that where did it all change? How and when did we go from a society that found female nudity a valid artistic phenomenon to a society that places so many restrictions on women and the way they dress? Some credit this change to the arrival of Islam and its regressive attitudes towards women. But I am not sure if thats the only reason

urmiladuhan
August 15th, 2013, 07:00 PM
how does one explain the tradition of 'sati', which is pre islamic? how does one explain purdha system that a jat women is forced to follow with her in- law male members? (there is no muslim inside their home!).


I think its pretty evident that our ancient culture celebrated the female form. The artistic appreciation of the female body is used in paying odes to Gods as one finds in the temples of Khajuraho. And yes, I believe you are right in your observation that the male form doesn't receive the same importance. This is something different from other ancient societies of the West. The Greeks and the Romans have plenty of such examples in according importance to the male body. I am not sure of other contemporary Asian cultures like the Persians though.

The question that intrigues me more is that where did it all change? How and when did we go from a society that found female nudity a valid artistic phenomenon to a society that places so many restrictions on women and the way they dress? Some credit this change to the arrival of Islam and its regressive attitudes towards women. But I am not sure if thats the only reason

urmiladuhan
August 15th, 2013, 07:04 PM
i have seen various kushana coins but nowhere is there a queen/princess figure or for that matter a woman figure, while gupta coins celebrate princesses/queens on their coins. as per your jat history beliefs, kushanas were jats!



how does one explain the tradition of 'sati', which is pre islamic? how does one explain purdha system that a jat women is forced to follow with her in- law male members? (there is no muslim inside their home!).

DrRajpalSingh
August 15th, 2013, 08:04 PM
I see every history related thread filled with mentions of epics and literary sources, all of which may or may not be reliable as source of accurate historical knowledge.

I am not a trained historian as many here, but how do we figure out what is pure literary/poetic embellishment in an epic or a Purana and what is accurate historical description? Isn't quoting the Vedas and Puranas fraught with danger as their motive was to serve as religious/philosophical texts rather than give an historical account to the reader?

Evaluating for historical accuracy, I would certainly give more weightage to a trader or a traveller's account like a Marco Polo, Al Bureni, Hieuen Tsang's rather than a Ved, Purana or Mahabharata.

Friend,

Trained historians, archaeologists, linguistics experts, adept numismatists, anthropologists and scientists have been busy in removing the mist from dark periods of history of mankind throughout the world. And lack of sources and data to reconstruct history of the antiquity is a problem throughout the world. The recorded traditions wherever available are being used to reconstruct history of ancient civilisations whether it is Greek, Chinese, Egyptian, Mesopotamian or Indian.

Prior to Alexander's invasion [327-325 BCE] not much recorded historical references from outside people about Ancient India have come to knowledge.

Moreover, before the initiation of Buddhism and Jainism in 6th Century BCE, the historians have to rely upon the sources provided by the Ancient literary traditions, in whatever form they are available, to reconstruct history by sifting chaff from flour with the help of either the archaeological remains or the comparative study of the Vedic literature with Puranas and the two ancient historical epics. In addition, the myths and traditions of various countries and continents have also been taken up for comparative study and to find out some clues of historical significance.

Much work has already been done on this front but much more work yet remains to be done.

The Indologists from India, Europe and America, for the last two three hundred years, have been engaged in reading and re-reading the ancient Sanskrit literature to prepare a fact based history and as a result of their persistent efforts, many a dark corners have been illuminated but several gaps still remain to be filled in because we are still groping in dark about the real events of such periods.

As regards, accounts of the foreign travellers as source of Indian history is concerned, yes ,they deserve due weightage. But no blind following of their accounts is warranted as their accounts have also to be compared and contrasted with other available indigenous sources and then and only then they could be used as authentic information.

Thanks and best wishes,

urmiladuhan
August 15th, 2013, 08:21 PM
Which literary tradition (6th B.C.E) are you talking about ? Oral or written ? Kindly note, there is no written evidence of vedic literature from that period.




Friend,

Trained historians, archaeologists, linguistics experts, adept numismatists, anthropologists and scientists have been busy in removing the mist from dark periods of history of mankind throughout the world. And lack of sources and data to reconstruct history of the antiquity is a problem throughout the world. The recorded traditions wherever available are being used to reconstruct history of ancient civilisations whether it is Greek, Chinese, Egyptian, Mesopotamian or Indian.

Prior to Alexander's invasion [327-325 BCE] not much recorded historical references from outside people about Ancient India have come to knowledge.

Moreover, before the initiation of Buddhism and Jainism in 6th Century BCE, the historians have to rely upon the sources provided by the Ancient literary traditions, in whatever form they are available, to reconstruct history by sifting chaff from flour with the help of either the archaeological remains or the comparative study of the Vedic literature with Puranas and the two ancient historical epics. In addition, the myths and traditions of various countries and continents have also been taken up for comparative study and to find out some clues of historical significance.

Much work has already been done on this front but much more work yet remains to be done.

The Indologists from India, Europe and America, for the last two three hundred years, have been engaged in reading and re-reading the ancient Sanskrit literature to prepare a fact based history and as a result of their persistent efforts, many a dark corners have been illuminated but several gaps still remain to be filled in because we are still groping in dark about the real events of such periods.

As regards, accounts of the foreign travellers as source of Indian history is concerned, yes ,they deserve due weightage. But no blind following of their accounts is warranted as their accounts have also to be compared and contrasted with other available indigenous sources and then and only then they could be used as authentic information.

Thanks and best wishes,

shekharjat
August 15th, 2013, 10:04 PM
how does one explain the tradition of 'sati', which is pre islamic? how does one explain purdha system that a jat women is forced to follow with her in- law male members? (there is no muslim inside their home!).

Urmila ji, i have read in NCERT book that in vedic time widow marriage was practiced..later at the time of brahmical supremacy widow marriage was linked to practice among shudras.

first sati example came from ERAN (madhya pradesh) of 510 A.D. in gupta period.it is called golden age of Indian culture due to its great literature and architect.it was also revivalist period of hinduism.sati came into practice to save a widowed lady from bad element of society as after her husband`s death she was prone to be exploited by bad elements.it is amusing to imagine why her in-laws and other relatives never defended her?
pre-puberty marriage,denial of education treating women as item of property is also mentioned. may be as lot of invaders also came at that time from central asia so large scale violence,deaths of soldiers resulting in lawlessness in society may also be reasons for declining status of women as whole society was going through turmoil.

in vedic society women always had respectable position .women was considered mistress of house.she participated in every religious ceremony,there was no purdah system,no restrictions on movement of women.they were imparted higher education.some women like Visvavara,Ghosha and Uppala even composed the Mantraas of the Rigved.

post maurian Satvahanas in south india and their most important king Gautamiputra Satkarni was named after her mother Gautami these examples are few to tell position of women.

in today's society regarding purdah system you can`t treat Jat women as a homogeneous entity. i have relatives where women are highly educated they never do purdah rather they even in their homes wear ultra modern clothes in front of their in-laws and nobody seems to be worried,then i also have relatives who do ghunghat ,it depends on education ,background etc etc..and Purdah system is all pervasive in Indian rural society irrespective of religion or caste it more to do with class now a days higher up you are in ladder of class ,less restriction ,more education.......

swaich
August 15th, 2013, 11:25 PM
how does one explain the tradition of 'sati', which is pre islamic? how does one explain purdha system that a jat women is forced to follow with her in- law male members? (there is no muslim inside their home!).

I agree, references to Sati pre-date Islamic presence in India. So how did both phenomenon co-exist? At one hand, we have Khajuraho and on the other we have Sati in the same period.

Its tough to figure this out over the internet as much of the historical blogs/sources are colored and depending upon which school of thought you belong, you will blame it on Islam or some other foreign invaders.

swaich
August 15th, 2013, 11:32 PM
i have seen various kushana coins but nowhere is there a queen/princess figure or for that matter a woman figure, while gupta coins celebrate princesses/queens on their coins. as per your jat history beliefs, kushanas were jats!

Do you say, that the Jat forefathers could have been more restrictive in their attitudes towards women as evidenced in some cases in the prevalence of Ghunghat? :) Well, I am not sure if Kushanas were indeed Jats. Probably our resident historians can shed more light here.

But yes, North Indians do seem to have a higher prevalence of ghunghat among those following non-Islamic religions. I am based in Southern India now and I dont see women following Ghunghat here at all, even in the villages.

shekharjat
August 16th, 2013, 01:46 AM
Do you say, that the Jat forefathers could have been more restrictive in their attitudes towards women as evidenced in some cases in the prevalence of Ghunghat? :) Well, I am not sure if Kushanas were indeed Jats. Probably our resident historians can shed more light here.

But yes, North Indians do seem to have a higher prevalence of ghunghat among those following non-Islamic religions. I am based in Southern India now and I dont see women following Ghunghat here at all, even in the villages.


ghunghat,purdah is not much prevalent in south India may be because there were very less attacks of invaders so they remained untouched by wrath of invaders and continued with their lifestyle........apart from this as nearness to sea made them more open to ideas and culture as we have evidence of lot of trade and cultural exchanges from all over the world........this was not the case with north india hinterland.....so ppl remained fixed to their beliefs......

shekharjat
August 16th, 2013, 01:53 AM
I agree, references to Sati pre-date Islamic presence in India. So how did both phenomenon co-exist? At one hand, we have Khajuraho and on the other we have Sati in the same period.

Its tough to figure this out over the internet as much of the historical blogs/sources are colored and depending upon which school of thought you belong, you will blame it on Islam or some other foreign invaders.

as i have mentioned in earlier post sati evidence in 510 ,khujrao were built around 12 century.we should also not forget that India was not a single country it was divided into ot of kingdoms and above all very strong village system and amonst thousands of caste and local cultures.so any particular cultural practice may have existed in one part and at the same time the opposite may have existed somewhere else.
also even today as it is said "that what is true about India exactly opposite is also true"
still india has more diversity than whole of Europe all together.

singhvp
August 16th, 2013, 02:42 AM
in today's society regarding purdah system you can`t treat Jat women as a homogeneous entity. i have relatives where women are highly educated they never do purdah rather they even in their homes wear ultra modern clothes in front of their in-laws and nobody seems to be worried,then i also have relatives who do ghunghat ,it depends on education ,background etc etc..and Purdah system is all pervasive in Indian rural society irrespective of religion or caste it more to do with class now a days higher up you are in ladder of class ,less restriction ,more education.......

While it is true that status of women in Jat society is not homogenous, the tradition of veil is likely to continue concomitant to education and background unless a consensus for its abolition is arrived at by the community after due deliberations at the social congregations (say khap panchayats). Though exceptions are always there, even the highly educated Jat women are constrained to follow the practice in the name of family/community prestige which is difficult to break at individual level. I myself have been a vehement critic of veil custom but, while buckling under societal/familial pressure, had to issue a fatwa to my wife to cover her head and face (upto nose) with some semi-transparent dupatta in front of elders in the family and relations, which she accepted without any murmur as a docile Indian wife, inspite of the fact that she had been living in London for 5 years at the time of our marriage (her family was settled there). Even now, whenever in village she has to cover her head and 50% of her face with a see-through dupatta/chunni, which refutes the logic of educational background, exposure to western culture or family background etc. I have so many other similar examples too.
वैसे तो मैं घूंघट के खिलाफ सूं, पर एक बात जरूर सै ...बिना घूँघट के छोरी और बहू का फर्क सा नहीं दीखता I कोए कोए जनानी तो घूंघट मैं ए घणी सुथरी लाग्या करै I लेकिन इसके बावजूद भी यो हट ज्या तो बढ़िया सै, बिचारी महिलाओं की सजा हो जाती है I

urmiladuhan
August 16th, 2013, 04:03 AM
It is understandable if women do purdah from men outside her family if 'invaders theory' is to be believed. But how does one explain women doing purdah from men of her family when she is inside the 4 walls of her home! It just goes on to show that the attitude of menfolk inside her home is same as of the outside men. This attitude is definitely not just Islamic as it has been happening inside Hindu homes from ancient times.


ghunghat,purdah is not much prevalent in south India may be because there were very less attacks of invaders so they remained untouched by wrath of invaders and continued with their lifestyle........apart from this as nearness to sea made them more open to ideas and culture as we have evidence of lot of trade and cultural exchanges from all over the world........this was not the case with north india hinterland.....so ppl remained fixed to their beliefs......

DrRajpalSingh
August 16th, 2013, 07:24 AM
Urmila ji, i have read in NCERT book that in vedic time widow marriage was practiced..later at the time of brahmical supremacy widow marriage was linked to practice among shudras.

first sati example came from ERAN (madhya pradesh) of 510 A.D. in gupta period.it is called golden age of Indian culture due to its great literature and architect.it was also revivalist period of hinduism.sati came into practice to save a widowed lady from bad element of society as after her husband`s death she was prone to be exploited by bad elements.it is amusing to imagine why her in-laws and other relatives never defended her?
.......

On the one hand epic Mahabharata says: Jahan narion kee pooja hoti hai wahan deva niwas karate hain

i.e.where women are worshipped, in such place gods reside !

On the other hand we find adverse references about the position of women in it.

If the evidence deduced from the epic Mahabharata is to be believed Madari, the second wife of Pandu, committed Sati on the death of her husband ! This shows a great fall in the position of women in the post Vedic period or popularly recorded period in the traditions as Dwapar.

The second point of degradation of women in Indian society is evident in the event which describes that Dharamraj Yudhisthira in the dice game put his wife Draupadi as a last ditch bet and lost her too.

Such examples about women could be multiplied from the study of the myths and traditions recorded in sanskrit literature.

On the other hand even during the times of the gupta period, remarriage of widows was in vogue as Chandragupta II [Vikramaditya] married his elder brother Ram Gupta's wife. Ramagupta was killed on account of his cowardice in dealing with the enemy. Chandragupta issued gold coins depicting his own and his wife's pictures engraved on them.

In the same way the daughter of this great Gupta king, Prabhavati ruled as a regent to her young child after the death of her husband.

So reverence and down gradation of the women continued to happen side by side in the ancient times in India.

DrRajpalSingh
August 16th, 2013, 07:37 AM
Which literary tradition (6th B.C.E) are you talking about ? Oral or written ? Kindly note, there is no written evidence of vedic literature from that period.

From the tone and tenure of some of your posts, it seems that you have in your possession some very weighty and solid information on the issue. If it is so, kindly share the exact position quoting the source of information {so that we could note it down for future references}.

Thanks and regards.

urmiladuhan
August 16th, 2013, 09:08 AM
Well, please don't read too much into tone etc and instead pay attention to words. You are time and again asking me to provide evidence when I am not claiming it happened. You and your friends are claiming this scripture was written then and creating fictional stories and trying to pass them off as factual. Perhaps you are having the wrong sort of audience these days here. I think I have made my stand quite clear and know that really there is nothing more that you people have to offer. Perhaps, now that I would not question you on these pesky details, you may have a cosier time passing off your fiction as history!


From the tone and tenure of some of your posts, it seems that you have in your possession some very weighty and solid information on the issue. If it is so, kindly share the exact position quoting the source of information {so that we could note it down for future references}.

Thanks and regards.

singhvp
August 16th, 2013, 02:49 PM
It is understandable if women do purdah from men outside her family if 'invaders theory' is to be believed. But how does one explain women doing purdah from men of her family when she is inside the 4 walls of her home! It just goes on to show that the attitude of menfolk inside her home is same as of the outside men. This attitude is definitely not just Islamic as it has been happening inside Hindu homes from ancient times.

Not necessarily. There must be very few among us, who can muster courage to militate against all the antiquated norms of social living including veil. It is possible in a process only and we have to take the other members along. In the family everyone cannot be Harvard or Oxford educated. For example, you may be highly educated and opposed to the veil, but your grand parents might enforce it upon you. I don't think you will disrespect their wishes inspite of the fact that you are against it in principle. Also, it does not mean that the mindset of your family members who want to observe the tradition of veil is the same as carried by the orthodox elements outside the family. They are probably enforcing veil on you under societal pressure for the sake of family's prestige. Therefore, in a family, one has to give due space to others also and that is in conformity with our cultural ethos.

swaich
August 16th, 2013, 04:08 PM
Not necessarily. There must be very few among us, who can muster courage to militate against all the antiquated norms of social living including veil. It is possible in a process only and we have to take the other members along. In the family everyone cannot be Harvard or Oxford educated. For example, you may be highly educated and opposed to the veil, but your grand parents might enforce it upon you. I don't think you will disrespect their wishes inspite of the fact that you are against it in principle. Also, it does not mean that the mindset of your family members who want to observe the tradition of veil is the same as carried by the orthodox elements outside the family. They are probably enforcing veil on you under societal pressure for the sake of family's prestige. Therefore, in a family, one has to give due space to others also and that is in conformity with our cultural ethos.

I think the key point here is that the threat of invaders curbed the freedom of women both within and outside the periphery of their own homes. So that alone cannot be a valid reason for ghunghat or purdah inside the house. It has to stem from a regressive attitude towards women ingrained within our own culture. Now, there are conflicting evidences from our history. We have godesses and nude forms worshipped on temple walls but at the same time we have Manu Smriti which is tremendously regressive in characterizing a woman's role in society and family. This contradiction is perplexing.

DrRajpalSingh
August 16th, 2013, 06:07 PM
Well, please don't read too much into tone etc and instead pay attention to words. You are time and again asking me to provide evidence when I am not claiming it happened. You and your friends are claiming this scripture was written then and creating fictional stories and trying to pass them off as factual. Perhaps you are having the wrong sort of audience these days here. I think I have made my stand quite clear and know that really there is nothing more that you people have to offer. Perhaps, now that I would not question you on these pesky details, you may have a cosier time passing off your fiction as history!

Ms. Urmila Duhan,

Closing discussion on so important issue in a huff and abruptly without settling the issue of time line does not look nice.

Would you be kind enough to state what is fictional part of history

which I and my friends have passed on as history; and also share please,

what is the basis of your surmise that Rigveda remained in oral form till

the establishment of Gupta dynasty.

If you like to know some related developments on the Vedas you kindly

log in :http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?35324-Chronology-of-Indian-History-Newer-discussions/page44

Thanks and regards

dndeswal
August 16th, 2013, 07:32 PM
It is understandable if women do purdah from men outside her family if 'invaders theory' is to be believed. But how does one explain women doing purdah from men of her family when she is inside the 4 walls of her home! It just goes on to show that the attitude of menfolk inside her home is same as of the outside men. This attitude is definitely not just Islamic as it has been happening inside Hindu homes from ancient times.

उर्मिला जी, आप इस विषय पर एक नया धागा शुरु कर लें, कोई नाम देकर - Purdah System/ Women's Liberalisation, Sati tradition - वगैरा वगैरा। इस धागे का विषय बिल्कुल दूसरा है।

.

ravinderjeet
August 16th, 2013, 07:56 PM
उर्मिला जी, आप इस विषय पर एक नया धागा शुरु कर लें, कोई नाम देकर - Purdah System/ Women's Liberalisation, Sati tradition - वगैरा वगैरा। इस धागे का विषय बिल्कुल दूसरा है।

.

देशवाल जी इस विषय पे पहलम एक तागा चाल लिया ,मेरा -अ चलाया होड़ था ,टोहना पडेगा इब्ब ।

urmiladuhan
August 22nd, 2013, 02:27 AM
This is a very interesting news item about the incidence of the use of iron by man much before the iron age set in. This news cites the use of meteorite iron instead of the ore extracted iron.
http://earthsky.org/science-wire/earliest-known-iron-artefacts-come-from-outer-space


The term 'History' is used frequently but what is its meaning, is not understood easily.

In this discussion an effort would be made to make its meaning clear and comprehensively

cover all aspects necessary to understand the way historical events are perceived and history is written.

Kindly join discussion !

DrRajpalSingh
August 22nd, 2013, 07:19 AM
This is a very interesting news item about the incidence of the use of iron by man much before the iron age set in. This news cites the use of meteorite iron instead of the ore extracted iron.
http://earthsky.org/science-wire/earliest-known-iron-artefacts-come-from-outer-space

Really this path breaking research by the Archaeologists is another feather in the knowledge of development of technology by the ancient man in Egypt.

Thanks for sharing. the same.

urmiladuhan
August 27th, 2013, 08:45 PM
Many a times, ancient coin hoards are found during planned excavations (as opposed to surface coins). These hoards are easy to date due to what is drawn/written on them and also as there is usually other material such as pottery, utensils, brick/mud wall structures, that are typical of an era/period/phase. If a coin hoard is found in a pot that also has cereal husk in it, it usually means that the coin filled pot was part of a religious offering where rice husk was also included. Just something I read and learnt.



The term 'History' is used frequently but what is its meaning, is not understood easily.

In this discussion an effort would be made to make its meaning clear and comprehensively

cover all aspects necessary to understand the way historical events are perceived and history is written.

Kindly join discussion !

DrRajpalSingh
August 29th, 2013, 06:44 PM
Many a times, ancient coin hoards are found during planned excavations (as opposed to surface coins). These hoards are easy to date due to what is drawn/written on them and also as there is usually other material such as pottery, utensils, brick/mud wall structures, that are typical of an era/period/phase. If a coin hoard is found in a pot that also has cereal husk in it, it usually means that the coin filled pot was part of a religious offering where rice husk was also included. Just something I read and learnt.

In addition to the old methods applied for identification of timeline of the coins issued, new technology based on scientific inventions known as PIXLE system is used and a bit older system of Carbon14 system has almost been replaced by it. This system uses X-Rays to determine the exact date of the metal used in coins or found in any other form like utensils or implements.

Thanks and regards,

urmiladuhan
August 29th, 2013, 08:16 PM
From what I know, x rays are used for composition determination such as those of alloys and also for obtaining clear images of soiled coins. The science behind these applications is fascinating and I highly recommend it to historians to familiarize themselves with it, if not already familiar. Knowing and applying science to history just makes both more interesting!

Carbon dating is used for organic materials dating.


In addition to the old methods applied for identification of timeline of the coins issued, new technology based on scientific inventions known as PIXLE system is used and a bit older system of Carbon14 system has almost been replaced by it. This system uses X-Rays to determine the exact date of the metal used in coins or found in any other form like utensils or implements.

Thanks and regards,

urmiladuhan
August 29th, 2013, 08:20 PM
One need not even touch the excavated object such as a terracotta pot filled with something, to know what is inside it, if X-ray technology is used. It gives clear pictures of what is inside it, how it is placed etc. Science is an indispensable tool for history.


In addition to the old methods applied for identification of timeline of the coins issued, new technology based on scientific inventions known as PIXLE system is used and a bit older system of Carbon14 system has almost been replaced by it. This system uses X-Rays to determine the exact date of the metal used in coins or found in any other form like utensils or implements.

Thanks and regards,

DrRajpalSingh
August 31st, 2013, 06:18 AM
One need not even touch the excavated object such as a terracotta pot filled with something, to know what is inside it, if X-ray technology is used. It gives clear pictures of what is inside it, how it is placed etc. Science is an indispensable tool for history.


Indeed advancement of science has revolutionised study of past. Nonetheless for determination of the timeline/date the metal has to be taken to laboratory for scientific experiments.

Thanks and regards,

urmiladuhan
August 31st, 2013, 11:57 AM
Not necessarily. In many advanced countries, hand held x ray devices are in use. While the pot is still partially buried, the X-rays penetrate the pot and give an image of what is inside. If you like, I can post more information on it as I have recently read about it on the net.


Indeed advancement of science has revolutionised study of past. Nonetheless for determination of the timeline/date the metal has to be taken to laboratory for scientific experiments.

Thanks and regards,

DrRajpalSingh
August 31st, 2013, 09:09 PM
Not necessarily. In many advanced countries, hand held x ray devices are in use. While the pot is still partially buried, the X-rays penetrate the pot and give an image of what is inside. If you like, I can post more information on it as I have recently read about it on the net.

It would be interesting to learn how this process of X-Ray penetration decides the dateline without testing the metal. You may, if you please, place the relevant information on the process how the image of what is inside the pot decides the timeline.

Thanks and regards,

Thanks.

urmiladuhan
September 1st, 2013, 04:41 AM
By dateline, I presume you mean dating the material. Well, in the context of coins, what is written/shown on the coins, can help decide the time period. The technique is X-ray CT. various other X-ray techniques are used to determine the composition of the metal/alloy. This information in conjunction with the layer of the excavation and other supporting items found during excavation helps determine the age of the sample.




It would be interesting to learn how this process of X-Ray penetration decides the dateline without testing the metal. You may, if you please, place the relevant information on the process how the image of what is inside the pot decides the timeline.

Thanks and regards,

Thanks.

DrRajpalSingh
September 3rd, 2013, 07:16 AM
By dateline, I presume you mean dating the material. Well, in the context of coins, what is written/shown on the coins, can help decide the time period. The technique is X-ray CT. various other X-ray techniques are used to determine the composition of the metal/alloy. This information in conjunction with the layer of the excavation and other supporting items found during excavation helps determine the age of the sample.

In addition to the above mentioned means applied to ascertain the time line, attempt is made to establish cross contacts, if any, as has been done while discussing the chronology of Asoka or Kaniska, the two important kings of the ancient India belonging to two different dynasties.

The references about the relations of the other contemporary kings with King Asoka found on his edicts established their contemporariness; Reference about battle between forces of Kanishka and Pan Chao of China clinched the issue of chronology of two most important dynasties of Indian history.

Thanks and regards

urmiladuhan
September 3rd, 2013, 01:19 PM
In addition to the above mentioned means applied to ascertain the time line, attempt is made to establish cross contacts, if any, as has been done while discussing the chronology of Asoka or Kaniska, the two important kings of the ancient India belonging to two different dynasties.

The references about the relations of the other contemporary kings with King Asoka found on his edicts established their contemporariness; Reference about battle between forces of Kanishka and Pan Chao of China clinched the issue of chronology of two most important dynasties of Indian history.

Thanks and regards

Which specific edict is being referred to here ?

DrRajpalSingh
September 3rd, 2013, 04:49 PM
Which specific edict is being referred to here ?

For searching relevant information your attention is drawn to the posts available on the links of two threads on this very site :

Chronology of Indian History --Newer discussions

and


History and Historians on Jat Mauryan Empire[ founded by Chandragupta in c 323 BC]

urmiladuhan
September 3rd, 2013, 06:14 PM
If possible, kindly state the answer directly here.

Thanks and regards.


For searching relevant information your attention is drawn to the posts available on the links of two threads on this very site :

Chronology of Indian History --Newer discussions

and


History and Historians on Jat Mauryan Empire[ founded by Chandragupta in c 323 BC]

DrRajpalSingh
September 3rd, 2013, 08:17 PM
If possible, kindly state the answer directly here.

Thanks and regards.

I think you have no time to go through the suggested source so for your convinience I am putting below the relevant link and extract from the post from :
http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?34753-History-and-Historians-on-Jat-Mauryan-Empire-founded-by-Chandragupta-in-c-323-BC/page6&highlight=Asoka+edicts


Rock Edicts second and thirteenth of Asoka, reference has been made to a number of contemporary Yona, i.e. Greek Kings:
RE II, A mentions 'the Yona king Antiyoka [Antiyaka at Girnar, Antiyoga at Kalsi and Mansehra] and the kings who are the neighbouring of this Antiyoka';
and the RE XIII, Q, 'the Yona king Antiyoka [Antiyoga at Kalsi and Mansehra] and beyond him four kings, viz. Turamaya [Tulamaya at Kalsi], Antekina [Antikini at Shahbazgarhi], Maka [Maga at Girnar], and Alikasudara [Alikyashudala at Kalsi.'*

*[CII,vol I, Inscriptions of Asoka, Introduction XXX by E Hultzsch.], New ed. 1969.]''

For identification of the references about the kings and their kingdoms along with dateline further discussion has to be gone through by the interested person.

Thanks

urmiladuhan
September 3rd, 2013, 08:35 PM
There is no mention of kanishka in the reference you have cited. If possible, kindly clarify.

Regards.

QUOTE=DrRajpalSingh;346158]I think you have no time to go through the suggested source so for your convinience I am putting below the relevant link and extract from the post from :
http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?34753-History-and-Historians-on-Jat-Mauryan-Empire-founded-by-Chandragupta-in-c-323-BC/page6&highlight=Asoka+edicts


Rock Edicts second and thirteenth of Asoka, reference has been made to a number of contemporary Yona, i.e. Greek Kings:
RE II, A mentions 'the Yona king Antiyoka [Antiyaka at Girnar, Antiyoga at Kalsi and Mansehra] and the kings who are the neighbouring of this Antiyoka';
and the RE XIII, Q, 'the Yona king Antiyoka [Antiyoga at Kalsi and Mansehra] and beyond him four kings, viz. Turamaya [Tulamaya at Kalsi], Antekina [Antikini at Shahbazgarhi], Maka [Maga at Girnar], and Alikasudara [Alikyashudala at Kalsi.'*

*[CII,vol I, Inscriptions of Asoka, Introduction XXX by E Hultzsch.], New ed. 1969.]''

For identification of the references about the kings and their kingdoms along with dateline further discussion has to be gone through by the interested person.

Thanks[/QUOTE]

DrRajpalSingh
September 4th, 2013, 06:20 PM
There is no mention of kanishka in the reference you have cited. If possible, kindly clarify.

Regards.



Regarding discussion on the timeline of Kanishka, I request readers to come forward and post their findings.

Thanks and regards

urmiladuhan
September 4th, 2013, 08:57 PM
Findings from where? It seems you are assuming people are researching.


Regarding discussion on the timeline of Kanishka, I request readers to come forward and post their findings.

Thanks and regards

DrRajpalSingh
September 4th, 2013, 09:35 PM
Findings from where? It seems you are assuming people are researching.

You would, perhaps agree that without research no worthwhile debate or discussion on such a serious issue as to decide the chronology of history of ancient times is possible.

Thanks and regards,

urmiladuhan
September 5th, 2013, 02:33 PM
Dr Rajpal, research and researching are 2 different things. It seems you are seeing them as one.



You would, perhaps agree that without research no worthwhile debate or discussion on such a serious issue as to decide the chronology of history of ancient times is possible.

Thanks and regards,

DrRajpalSingh
September 5th, 2013, 03:45 PM
Dr Rajpal, research and researching are 2 different things. It seems you are seeing them as one.

Thanks for the comment.

Now, let us proceed further to discuss how to understand what is history.

Your comments or views on the subject of the thread please.

ravinderjeet
September 5th, 2013, 06:59 PM
में ते ,मखा कोए काम की बात चाल री होगी ।

prashantacmet
September 5th, 2013, 07:24 PM
anyone has understood " what is history"? If yes, please share.

ravinderjeet
September 5th, 2013, 07:28 PM
anyone has understood " what is history"? If yes, please share.


हाँ ,एक दुसरे के चीज खोषण की कोशिश ,एक दुसरे ने नीचा दीखाण की कोशिश ,इन् बाताँ तें हिस्ट्री बनी स ।

urmiladuhan
September 5th, 2013, 08:12 PM
Dr Rajpal, first and foremost, one needs to have an interest in a subject to enjoy. Understanding comes naturally then, I think.


Thanks for the comment.

Now, let us proceed further to discuss how to understand what is history.

Your comments or views on the subject of the thread please.

DrRajpalSingh
September 6th, 2013, 07:23 AM
Several friends have pointed out the wayward progress of discussion under the thread, and rightly so, that the thread discussion do not conform to the theme of the thread.


Therefore, it is in the fitness of things that none of us tries to derail the topic by bringing other topics for discussion under this thread and thus contribute to keep the History Forum and its two specialised sub-forums different from other forums of the site devoted to serious discussion of various relevant aspects only.

Thanks and regards

DrRajpalSingh
September 6th, 2013, 07:26 AM
Only those who have interest in understanding history can understand it, that too, if they ever try to understand it.

Therefore we must put philosophy, methodology and theory of history in simplest possible manner so that even layman's curiosity to learn finer points of history is saitsfied.

DrRajpalSingh
September 6th, 2013, 02:59 PM
में ते ,मखा कोए काम की बात चाल री होगी ।

Friend

Aberration is regretted.

To fulfill the expectations of the readers,

we will surely put quality posts in History forum in future.

Thanks and regards

DrRajpalSingh
September 6th, 2013, 03:04 PM
anyone has understood " what is history"? If yes, please share.

Friend,

To get answer to your question kindly turn to first about thirty posts on this thread. However, we lost the way thereafter.

Now, no more groping in the darkness, contribute to the thread and/or follow the thread and you would get good information on the topic of the thread.

Thanks and regards