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DrRajpalSingh
May 4th, 2013, 10:56 PM
This is a paradox that inspite of plethora of literary sources available in India like Vedic literature, Puranas, epics and other scriptures and secular books, no dependable history book is available prior to Kalhan's Rajatarangini, the history of the rulers of Kasmir.

Generally it is lamented that Indians had poor sense of history and there does not exist dependable historical accounts of ancient history of India. But it is not totally true picture of the reality.

There are a number of sources of the pre-history and ancient history available in India but the scholar who intend to reconstruct history of those times have to labour hard to critically examine them before using them to arrive at convincing conclusions.

Let us share here the studies on the issue of the sources of ancient history of India.

DrRajpalSingh
May 5th, 2013, 02:00 PM
Inspite of the fact that about the emergence of prehistoric sources of history of India started in a big way to come after the discovery of Mohenjodaro and Harappa, of late, there has spurt in coming of sources through archaeological research being carried out in various parts of the country. They have been used by painstaking pioneers of indian history for reconstruction of prehistory and ancient history of India. These sources are categorized as Archaeological sources and comprise of ancient remains of artifacts, buildings, monuments, implements, ornaments, sculptures, metal pieces, ornaments, toys, seals and sealings, coins etc.

Various archeaological explorations and excavations have yielded this treasure of sources of history of India and is being studied, analysed and used to reconstruct the lost threads of history of Ancient India.

The literary sources is another category of sources which provides information on various facets of the life, culture and civilisation of people of India through the ages. These sources start with Rigveda and continue to appear in the form of books from time to time.

Thanks

DrRajpalSingh
May 6th, 2013, 04:01 PM
As regards literary sources of the history of India are

concerned, the National Archives of India, 1-Janapath,

New Delhi is the biggest repository in the country

where millions of documents are available for use

of the researchers.

Thanks.

DrRajpalSingh
May 6th, 2013, 06:47 PM
Several Rajasthan rulers had very intimate relationship with

the Mughals. They kept a continuous dialogue with the Delhi

Government and kept a record of every bit of event, happening

and its consequent action and reaction. This plethora of records

and correspondence is written in Persian, Rajasthani, Hindi etc. and

is kept at Rajasthan State Archives, Bikaner. Some of the books like

Nansi-ri Khyat in three volume, Suryamall Misrans, Vamsa Bhaskar,

and Veer Vinod are historical books found at the RSA, Bikaner.

Some of the Framans issued by the Mughal Emperors and Nishans

have been translated into English by J N Sarkar. The documents

are being used by the research scholars interested in medieval Indian

history in general and history of Rajasthan and adjoining region.

Thanks

DrRajpalSingh
May 6th, 2013, 06:53 PM
Records for writing the history of Haryana are kept at

Haryana State Archives, Panchkulla which include mostly

copies procured from the National Archives of India regarding

medieval history and original documents starting from 1857 onwards.

Thanks

DrRajpalSingh
May 6th, 2013, 06:55 PM
Most of the documents related with the history of Punjab

are available at Lahore. Some records relating to PEPSU and

the East Punjab are kept at Punjab State Archives, Patiala.

DrRajpalSingh
May 6th, 2013, 07:03 PM
Records relating the expansion of the Maratha power

are scattered all over India. Marathas were good letter

writers and used to inform their superiors of the minutest

developments which occurred in the vicinity of their posting.

This has left a rich heritage of contemporary records mostly

written in Marathi or at times in Persian. The biggest collection

of this archival asset is available at Poona. G S Sirdesai, Rajwade,

J N Sarkar and others have done yeomen's service in their systematic

sorting and translating thousands of documents in English.

DrRajpalSingh
May 6th, 2013, 09:12 PM
Natnagar Sodh Sanstha, Sitamau [MP] is very rich in archival sources

for history of medieval India in general and the Jats of 17-18th Century in particular.

It was established by Dr. Raghubir Simha, the Kunwar of the Sitamau native state.

Old MSS of several treatises and letters exchanged between various rulers and the

Delhi Emperors and the Marathas are worthy possessions of this repository.

DrRajpalSingh
May 7th, 2013, 07:19 AM
The old records kept at erstwhile native states headquarters like Jaipur,

Alwar, Kota, Bharatpur,Jodhpur, Udaipur, Bikaner, Jaisalmer, Bundi etc. of Rajasthan

containing land records, revenue demands, correspondence of various types,

land settlement records etc provide multi faceted sources of history of those

days which are used to study socio-economic, cultural and political conditions

of the medieval and modern history.

These sources have been used by scholars and as regards history of the Jats since the

time the Mughals entered the Indian political scene is concerned, many a monographs and

research articles have appeared mainly based on the records available in the Rajasthan

State Archives and other repositories. They are really mines of information on various

issues and are being used by the research scholars.

DrRajpalSingh
May 7th, 2013, 11:13 AM
Khudabux Library, Patana contains rich collection of rare books belonging to the times of Sultanate and Mughal period.

DrRajpalSingh
May 7th, 2013, 11:15 AM
National Library Calcutta keeps millions of books,

newspapers, journals and magazines which are useful

for the research scholars of social sciences and history.

DrRajpalSingh
May 7th, 2013, 05:14 PM
Geeta Press, Gorakhpur has published several books on the scriptures

and brought out special issues on various facets of indian culture,

religion and heritage. They have published Vedas and other Hindu

scriptures like Srimadabhagavata Gita.

DrRajpalSingh
May 7th, 2013, 08:14 PM
Nagari Pracharini Sabha Varanasi has brought out many old MSS

in the form of printed books and has saved the precious source

material for history writing from destruction.

DrRajpalSingh
May 9th, 2013, 11:48 PM
The two epics Ramayana and Mahabharata are very important

sources of History of India which should be used with caution

by sifting myth from facts by using other research tools for their examination.

DrRajpalSingh
May 10th, 2013, 09:19 AM
Architectural and artifact remains serve as a solid source of ancient history

and at times serve as cross check on literary sources to reach some tangible conclusion.

DrRajpalSingh
May 10th, 2013, 09:24 AM
The remains collected from the Harappan sites spread in various parts

of north-western parts of the country have sent dated history of India

several centuries back. Prior to coming to light of this culture and civilisation,

generally it was the Aryan advent in sometime 2nd millenium B.C, that historical

dates were decided by the modern writers of history.

DrRajpalSingh
May 10th, 2013, 09:28 AM
Ashoka's rock inscriptions and Pillar Edicts have revolutionised the study of ancient Indian History.

Prinsep's reading of these ancient valuable source of historic studies have led to increased interest

in finding out/digging out newer information since then.

DrRajpalSingh
May 10th, 2013, 08:54 PM
The remains collected from the Harappan sites spread in various parts

of north-western parts of the country have sent dated history of India

several centuries back. Prior to coming to light of this culture and civilisation,

generally it was the Aryan advent in sometime 2nd millenium B.C, that historical

dates were decided by the modern writers of history.


In his monograph entitled, New Light on the Indus Civilisation, Volume I, [Delhi],

Dr. K.N. Sastri, former curator of Harappa, has placed his comments on the data

collected from various sites of the region and has concluded that according to his

findings the origin of this civilisation goes back to the first half of the 4th millennium

B. C. and the end to the beginning of the second millenium B.C. He is of the view that

the resolution of the complex question of the chronology of the Harappan civilisation is

closely associated with the solution of the chronology of the Dark Period of Indian History

between the time of post-Harappan period and the advent of the Buddhist period.

Therefore, kindly help us to find some candle light of sources/studies which could illuminate this phase of 'Dark Period'.

Thanks

DrRajpalSingh
May 11th, 2013, 05:47 PM
Archaeological Survey of India maintains several Museums all over India where antiquity

remains collected from various places are kept and preserved for the use of research scholars.

DrRajpalSingh
May 11th, 2013, 05:53 PM
Archaeological Survey of India maintains several Museums all over India where antiquity

remains collected from various places are kept and preserved for the use of research scholars.

The regional and zonal offices of the Archaeological Survey of India and the state Government Departments

of Archaeology also keep an eye on the heritage sites and excavations of the same, collect material and

ensure its deposit in the authorised museums.

DrRajpalSingh
May 13th, 2013, 07:39 AM
Contrary to general perception, the Ancient Indians were very good at keeping records of the happenings around them as is evident from the records of seals and sealings collected from various ancient Archeological important sites.

Again, the Vedic, Puranic, Upanishadic, Great epics, Buddhist and Jain literature and so on belonging to ancient times is there to show to the world that they were second to none in the field of keeping records of the contemporary happenings .

Tragedy is due to certain reasons like the original records prepared/composed by the ancients have either totally lost or have been interpolated by the later day compilers/editors.

DrRajpalSingh
May 16th, 2013, 09:21 AM
Rajatarangini by Kalhana is a very important source of ancient Indian History.

DrRajpalSingh
May 16th, 2013, 03:29 PM
Arnayakas and Upanishads also throw important light on various aspects of Ancient Indian life and culture.

DrRajpalSingh
May 16th, 2013, 03:32 PM
Milindapanha is an ancient historic document consists of questions by King Milind and answers by the Buddhist scholar on various issues of contemporary concern.

DrRajpalSingh
May 23rd, 2013, 08:02 AM
Si Yu Ki [The Records of the Western World] by Huen Tsang is a detailed travellogue of first part of seventh century A.D. India which has come as a welcome addition to our knowledge of the Ancient Indian History. It contains references to the places and the kings visited by him and also refers to other issues like religion, pilgrim centres, economy, architectural styles, religious faiths, social set up etc.

For identification of many lost towns and cities, it has been usefully put to use by Archaeologists in general and Alexander Cunningham in particular.

DrRajpalSingh
May 23rd, 2013, 11:15 AM
Si Yu Ki [The Records of the Western World] by Huen Tsang is a detailed travellogue of first part of seventh century A.D. India which has come as a welcome addition to our knowledge of the Ancient Indian History. It contains references to the places and the kings visited by him and also refers to other issues like religion, pilgrim centres, economy, architectural styles, religious faiths, social set up etc.

For identification of many lost towns and cities, it has been usefully put to use by Archaeologists in general and Alexander Cunningham in particular.

Writing about the importance of this Record as source of Ancient Indian History, V A Smith says:

"The prince of pilgrims, the illustrious Hiuen Tsang, whose fame as Master of Law still resounds through all Buddhist lands, deserves more particular notice. His travels, described in work entitled Records of the Western World, which has been translated into French, English, and German, extended from A.D.629 to 645, and covered an enormous area, including almost every part of India, except the extreme south. His book is a treasure-house of accurate information, indispensable to every student of Indian antiquity, and has done more than any archaeological discovery to render possible the remarkable resuscitation of lost Indian history which has been recently affected."

He goes on to add: "Although the chief historical value of Hieun Tsang's work consists in its contemporary description of political, religious, and social institutions, the pilgrim has increased the debt of gratitude due to his memory by recording a considerable mass of ancient tradition, which would have been lost bjt for his care to preserve it. The Life of Hieun Tsang, composed by his friend Hwui-li, contributes many details supplemental to the narrative in the records, though not quite so trustworthy."

Thanks.

DrRajpalSingh
May 26th, 2013, 02:27 PM
Kautilya's Arthashastra is a first hand account on the ancient India and contains very illuminating description of the polity of his times. He was Prime Minister of Chandragupta Maurya and has left behind an eye witness record of many aspects of the personality of the Emperor as well as his administrative machinery and rules and regulations governing the country. His narrative is cited to compare and contrast other contemporary sources of Ancient Indian History.

DrRajpalSingh
May 30th, 2013, 10:46 PM
Fahian, the Chinese Buddhist Pilgrim has left his memoirs and travellogue, which if used with caution, gives a lot of information on the history of ancient India.

DrRajpalSingh
May 30th, 2013, 10:51 PM
Megasthenes, the author of Indica, in his book on history of the times of Chandragupta Maurya, throws welcome light on many aspects of the contemporary history.

DrRajpalSingh
June 23rd, 2013, 11:34 AM
Those who are interested in understanding Vedic literature in proper perspective,

the book : VEDIC INDEX OF NAMES AND SUBJECTS, vols. I and II, co-authored

by Arthur Anthony Macdonell and Arthur Berriedale Keith, first edition, London, 1912

and re-published by Motilal Banarsidass, Indological Publishers and Booksellers, Delhi in 1982,

is a very useful reference.

maddhan1979
June 23rd, 2013, 01:42 PM
Those who are interested in understanding Vedic literature in proper perspective,

the book : VEDIC INDEX OF NAMES AND SUBJECTS, vols. I and II, co-authored

by Arthur Anthony Macdonell and Arthur Berriedale Keith, first edition, London, 1912

and re-published by Motilal Banarsidass, Indological Publishers and Booksellers, Delhi in 1982,

is a very useful reference.


This book was published in 1912 and then again in 1982. These books were written in past at the time when there was no electric medium of seeking information i.e. an internet. So the writers had localized knowledge and used references of books, texts etc. which again were written based on localized knowledge. So one should be open minded and not take anything as absolute truth. Rather a person should self question the statements. In this way, it will not be easy to be exploited by any identity.

It looks like some groups from Punjab region are also interested in our talks. It seems some people are following our talks and ideas. The group seems to have presence in Himachal Pradesh as well.

maddhan1979
June 23rd, 2013, 01:45 PM
This book was published in 1912 and then again in 1982. These books were written in past at the time when there was no electric medium of seeking information i.e. an internet. So the writers had localized knowledge and used references of books, texts etc. which again were written based on localized knowledge. So one should be open minded and not take anything as absolute truth. Rather a person should self question the statements. In this way, it will not be easy to be exploited by any identity.

It looks like some groups from Punjab region are also interested in our talks. It seems some people are following our talks and ideas. The group seems to have presence in Himachal Pradesh as well.


I hope these are not the people, who try to do land grabbing, resource grabbing of people travelling in and out of India.

DrRajpalSingh
June 23rd, 2013, 09:20 PM
This book was published in 1912 and then again in 1982. These books were written in past at the time when there was no electric medium of seeking information i.e. an internet. So the writers had localized knowledge and used references of books, texts etc. which again were written based on localized knowledge. So one should be open minded and not take anything as absolute truth. Rather a person should self question the statements. In this way, it will not be easy to be exploited by any identity.

It looks like some groups from Punjab region are also interested in our talks. It seems some people are following our talks and ideas. The group seems to have presence in Himachal Pradesh as well.

And


I hope these are not the people, who try to do land grabbing, resource grabbing of people travelling in and out of India.

Friend,

It is beyond comprehension what you want to convey by posting these two posts. Second part of the first post and the second post in toto have no relevance to the topic of discussion. Rather, the terms used by you like 'identity,' 'land grabing,' 'resource grabing' and some groups of people from here and there, bemuse the reader.

It seems you have not really read or seen the book under reference; otherwise you would not had commented in the way you did.

They are well researched and beautifully written volumes containing divergence of opinions well received by the authors and as such are mines of information for the beginners !

Thanks

DrRajpalSingh
June 24th, 2013, 10:00 AM
A.B. Keith : History of Sanskrit Literature, (Oxford, 1928) is a classic study of our classicals which is a must read for understanding the Ancient India.

DrRajpalSingh
June 24th, 2013, 10:06 AM
Max Muller: History of Ancient Sanskrit Literature (London, 1892) and M. Winternitz, History of Indian Literature, English translation Volumes I and II (Calcutta University, 1927, 1933) are very important contribution in the field of study of ancient literature of Sanskrit.

DrRajpalSingh
June 24th, 2013, 10:11 AM
For those who do not possess good knowledge of Sanskrit, Panini's Astadhyayi with Katyayana's Varttikas, [Madras, 1917); and, Paanini, His Place in Sanskrit Literature by Th. Goldstrucker, (London,MDCCCLXI) give useful direction to study his contribution to our ancient literary heritage.

DrRajpalSingh
July 3rd, 2013, 05:41 PM
For understanding the proper use of modern secondary sources,,

Historiography: Interpreting Various Historical Writings on Modern India,

(2013} Jaipur, containing 22 articles by different scholars provides good insight.

DrRajpalSingh
July 3rd, 2013, 06:27 PM
The Tamil Puranas:

For writing the History of Ancient India none can overlook the presence of Tamil Puranas

like the Periya Puranam, Thiruvilayadal Puranam and Thiruthondar Puranam etc.

DrRajpalSingh
July 3rd, 2013, 06:28 PM
Some information on the contents of Tamil Puranams:

Periya Puranam deals with the biographies of saints and is a treasure house of 'Saiva hagiology'.

Thiruvilayadal Puranam deals with god [Shiva], His activities, His relations with human beings and

the Pandya kings, people of the Pandya kingdom, their customs and manners etc.

DrRajpalSingh
July 3rd, 2013, 06:33 PM
Again, there are available different types of quasi-historical poems in Tamil-Ulas, Kovai and Parani.

Ulas are available on both the deities and the kings like the Ekambaranathar Ula and on kings

like Ottakuttan's on three successive Chola monarchs. These are extant.

DrRajpalSingh
July 3rd, 2013, 06:44 PM
In the poetic literature history and legends are mingled, yet they are considered

by scholars far better than the Puranic literature of the north.


Of the Parani type, Kalingathuparani stands aloof as a better historical account.



All these quasi-historical Tamil records and Harshacharita of Bana Bhata in Sanskrit mark

a transition between the mythic age of the Puranas and the historical age of Kalhana's Rajatarngini,

which of course comes nearer to scientific history in spite of its shortcomings.

DrRajpalSingh
July 5th, 2013, 07:15 AM
Kalhan's Rajatarangini, written in verse in 1149-50 is a history of Kashmir, which is regarded as an historical text in the true sense of the word. The author took pains to collect the material from then existing chronicles and other sources.

The author has narrated the career of each king of Kashmir in detail and as he gradually comes nearer his own age the history becomes more replete with interesting accounts of men and things. So it becomes more than mere chronicle of dry details but succeeds ''to present ebb and flow of national life, the periods of glory and misery, and the greatness and weakness of men and rulers''.

But his account of the period before the seventh Century AD cannot be regarded as trustworthy and it becomes more and more unreliable as we go back to more ancient periods because he could not make up for the lack of authentic material.

DrRajpalSingh
July 13th, 2013, 07:18 PM
A good critique is available to understand the ancient Indo-Aryan Races.

It is "The Indo Aryan Races" by Ramaprasad Chanda, published by Varendra

Research Society, Rajashahi in 1916 and reprinted by Indological Book Corporation,

New Delhi in 1976

DrRajpalSingh
July 20th, 2013, 06:42 AM
M.Winternitz, A History of Indian Literature, Vols I and II.

DrRajpalSingh
July 20th, 2013, 06:43 AM
A. Weber, The History of Indian Literature.

DrRajpalSingh
July 20th, 2013, 06:45 AM
N.J. Shende, The Religion and Philosophy of the Atharva-veda.

DrRajpalSingh
July 23rd, 2013, 06:05 PM
C.V. Vaidya, Mahabharata, [A Criticism), Bombay, 1904.

DrRajpalSingh
July 23rd, 2013, 06:08 PM
Padamakar Vishnu Vartak, The Scientific Dating of the Mahabharata War [Unpublished], Ved Vidnyana Mandal, Poona, 1989.

DrRajpalSingh
July 23rd, 2013, 06:12 PM
Romila Thapar, Ancient Indian Social History, Delhi, 1990

DrRajpalSingh
July 23rd, 2013, 06:14 PM
Bal Gangadhar Tilak, Arctic Home in the Vedas, Bombay, 1903

DrRajpalSingh
July 24th, 2013, 06:47 PM
Professor Muir, Original Sanskrit Texts, Vols. I and II.

DrRajpalSingh
July 31st, 2013, 08:16 PM
H H Risley, The people of India, 1908; Edited by W. Crooke, and printed in 1915, Calcutta.

DrRajpalSingh
July 31st, 2013, 08:18 PM
H A Rose, A glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North-West Frontier Province, Lahore, 1911-19.

DrRajpalSingh
August 1st, 2013, 05:19 AM
M.K. Kudaryavtsev, Role of the Jats in the Ethnic History of Northern India, Nauka Publishing House, Moscow, 1964.

DrRajpalSingh
August 1st, 2013, 05:22 AM
Bongard Levin and Kotovsky, A History of India, Book I, Moscow, 1979.

DrRajpalSingh
August 1st, 2013, 05:24 AM
T.J. Kedar, Vedasthan (or the Ancient Home of the Indo Aryans), Subodh Sindhu Press, Nagpur (M P) n.d.

DrRajpalSingh
August 1st, 2013, 05:27 AM
Marx and Engels, The First Indian War of Independence, 1857-59, Progress Publishers, Moscow, 1978.

DrRajpalSingh
August 1st, 2013, 05:29 AM
D.N. Majumdar, Races and Culture of India, New Delhi, 1961

DrRajpalSingh
August 1st, 2013, 05:31 AM
J.F. Hewitt, Ruling Races of Prehistoric Times, Delhi, 1972

DrRajpalSingh
August 1st, 2013, 05:32 AM
A.H. Keane, Asia, edited by Sir Richard Temple.

DrRajpalSingh
August 1st, 2013, 05:34 AM
A.H. Keane, Man --Past and Present, Cambridge Press, 1920.

DrRajpalSingh
August 5th, 2013, 04:49 PM
D P Mishra, Studies in Proto History of India, Orient Longman, Delhi, [1971 ].

DrRajpalSingh
August 12th, 2013, 05:02 PM
Mahabharata, Critical edition, Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute, Pune, 1933 onwards.

DrRajpalSingh
August 12th, 2013, 05:03 PM
Mahabharata, Gita Press, Gorakhpur, V.S. 2016.

DrRajpalSingh
August 12th, 2013, 05:04 PM
Mahabharata, P.C. Roy (ed.) Calcutta, 1883 English Tr. P.C. Roy, Calcutta, 1883-96.

ssgoyat
August 12th, 2013, 05:42 PM
I don't know if Mahabharata should be given status of Indian History. It's just a over glorified/hyped novel.

Not to offend anybody's religious sentiments....may be i should say: Sacred text.

But History, no..not justified.

urmiladuhan
August 12th, 2013, 05:43 PM
On top of that, it has various authors who differ from each other.




I don't know if Mahabharata should be given status of Indian History. It's just a over glorified/hyped novel.

Not to offend anybody's religious sentiments....may be i should say: Sacred text.

But History, no..not justified.

DrRajpalSingh
August 12th, 2013, 06:29 PM
I don't know if Mahabharata should be given status of Indian History. It's just a over glorified/hyped novel.

Not to offend anybody's religious sentiments....may be i should say: Sacred text.

But History, no..not justified.

Friend,

It is not history but is an ancient epic and as such it is a source of history which illuminates many a dark spots in Ancient History.

Thanks

DrRajpalSingh
August 12th, 2013, 06:35 PM
On top of that, it has various authors who differ from each other.

It would be good if you very kindly quote the names of various authors

and

also make mention, if possible, some examples of contradictions in their writings please !

urmiladuhan
August 12th, 2013, 06:57 PM
Dr. Rajpal, I am not inclined to do what you are asking me to do. However, it is common knowledge that Indian epics have various authors. You are a historian - you are expected to know this, i suppose. Or else, you can look it up yourself.

Regards,

Urmila.



It would be good if you very kindly quote the names of various authors

and

also make mention, if possible, some examples of contradictions in their writings please !

ssgoyat
August 12th, 2013, 07:17 PM
Friend,

It is not history but is an ancient epic and as such it is a source of history which illuminates many a dark spots in Ancient History.

Thanks

Rajpalji,

It would be good if you very kindly educate us how this overly hyped novel happens to be a source of history.

and

also make mention, if possible, some examples of dark spots in Ancient history and how Mahabharatha (by author X or Y or Z) illuminates these dark spots.

DrRajpalSingh
August 12th, 2013, 08:19 PM
Rajpalji,

It would be good if you very kindly educate us how this overly hyped novel happens to be a source of history.

and

also make mention, if possible, some examples of dark spots in Ancient history and how Mahabharatha (by author X or Y or Z) illuminates these dark spots.

Friend,

To satisfy your quest for knowledge on the issue,I take the opportunity to invite your kind attention to another thread where the issue has already been discussed at length: The thread is in Jat History section:

Thread: In Quest of Chronology of Epic Mahabharata and Bharata Battle (http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?35734-In-Quest-of-Chronology-of-Epic-Mahabharata-and-Bharata-Battle/page3)

Kindly read the posts and you will definitely gain better understanding of the Epic Mahabharata as a source of Ancient Indian History.

Thanks and regards,

DrRajpalSingh
August 12th, 2013, 08:41 PM
Dr. Rajpal, I am not inclined to do what you are asking me to do. However, it is common knowledge that Indian epics have various authors. You are a historian - you are expected to know this, i suppose. Or else, you can look it up yourself.

Regards,

Urmila.

Ms. Urmila Duhan,

It is up to you to share your readings with us or not !

Whatever little knowledge I have been able to gather on the topic you can see for yourself by visiting Jat History section:

Thread: In Quest of Chronology of Epic Mahabharata and Bharata Battle (http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?35734-In-Quest-of-Chronology-of-Epic-Mahabharata-and-Bharata-Battle/page3)

Thanks and regards

urmiladuhan
August 13th, 2013, 07:29 AM
Dr. Rajpal, I would share if I am inclined to read what you are ordering me to read. You are un-necessarily accusing me of not sharing when you don't even know if I have read them in the first place! If this is the level of focus, no wonder miscommunications are happening.

Regards,

Urmila.




QUOTE=DrRajpalSingh;344099]Ms. Urmila Duhan,

It is up to you to share your readings with us or not !

Whatever little knowledge I have been able to gather on the topic you can see for yourself by visiting Jat History section:

Thread: In Quest of Chronology of Epic Mahabharata and Bharata Battle (http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?35734-In-Quest-of-Chronology-of-Epic-Mahabharata-and-Bharata-Battle/page3)

Thanks and regards[/QUOTE]

DrRajpalSingh
August 13th, 2013, 08:20 AM
Dr. Rajpal, I would share if I am inclined to read what you are ordering me to read. You are un-necessarily accusing me of not sharing when you don't even know if I have read them in the first place! If this is the level of focus, no wonder miscommunications are happening.

Regards,

Urmila.




QUOTE=DrRajpalSingh;344099]Ms. Urmila Duhan,

It is up to you to share your readings with us or not !

Whatever little knowledge I have been able to gather on the topic you can see for yourself by visiting Jat History section:

Thread: In Quest of Chronology of Epic Mahabharata and Bharata Battle (http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?35734-In-Quest-of-Chronology-of-Epic-Mahabharata-and-Bharata-Battle/page3)

Thanks and regards[/QUOTE]

Please read the post under reference again, there is nothing of the sort of 'order' but a polite submission for your kind consideration.

I am always ready for discussion of various issues but the discussion, you will appreciate, progresses by inputs from various participants. The issues which have already been discussed may be left out which can only be done by reading the already submitted posts; and, then, newer questions/issues may be taken up for discussion, if you so desire.

Thanks.

urmiladuhan
August 13th, 2013, 09:35 AM
Dr. Rajpal, the lengthy history posts are boring to go through at least for me. Perhaps you can summarise the relevant portion (the emphasis is on the word relevant) from your other posts here for discussion.


QUOTE=DrRajpalSingh;344118][/QUOTE]

Please read the post under reference again, there is nothing of the sort of 'order' but a polite submission for your kind consideration.

I am always ready for discussion of various issues but the discussion, you will appreciate, progresses by inputs from various participants. The issues which have already been discussed may be left out which can only be done by reading the already submitted posts; and, then, newer questions/issues may be taken up for discussion, if you so desire.

Thanks.[/QUOTE]

urmiladuhan
August 13th, 2013, 09:41 AM
Your strategy of convincing is quite crooked, mean and deceptive :). That is my take on your history posts.

QUOTE=DrRajpalSingh;344118][/QUOTE]

Please read the post under reference again, there is nothing of the sort of 'order' but a polite submission for your kind consideration.

I am always ready for discussion of various issues but the discussion, you will appreciate, progresses by inputs from various participants. The issues which have already been discussed may be left out which can only be done by reading the already submitted posts; and, then, newer questions/issues may be taken up for discussion, if you so desire.

Thanks.[/QUOTE]

ssgoyat
August 13th, 2013, 10:41 AM
Rajpalji,

It would be good if you very kindly educate us how this overly hyped novel happens to be a source of history.

and

also make mention, if possible, some examples of dark spots in Ancient history and how Mahabharatha (by author X or Y or Z) illuminates these dark spots.

Rajpalji,

After reading your reply post. I must say: specifics with 'Bullet points'.

That'll save time & energy.

Not everybody is fond of diving into heaps of pages, and that too for a fictional novel/story. Especially when any resemblance to real persons (living or dead), and/or place is purely coincidental.

DrRajpalSingh
August 13th, 2013, 08:17 PM
Rajpalji,

After reading your reply post. I must say: specifics with 'Bullet points'.

That'll save time & energy.

Not everybody is fond of diving into heaps of pages, and that too for a fictional novel/story. Especially when any resemblance to real persons (living or dead), and/or place is purely coincidental.

Friend,

Not everything mentioned in epic Mahabharata is historical. You know that this epic is a very lengthy narrative of many a events and contains in addition to main narrative of the Battle between Kauravas and Pandavas, several sub plots.

Historians have collected evidences from it since long and have accepted only those evidences which have been corroborated by other sources like archaeology. Hence to reject it as totally useless source is as wrong as to believe it to be totally dependable source. While using its evidences one has to be patient and cautious.

You have rightly said that ''not everybody is fond of diving into heaps of pages'' which leads to development of misconception about the use of bulky sized ancient traditional literature like Vedic literature, Puranas, Epics and so on.

Thanks and best wishes,

urmiladuhan
August 14th, 2013, 05:06 AM
Use of Indian epics as historical source is subjective then, it seems.


Friend,

Not everything mentioned in epic Mahabharata is historical. You know that this epic is a very lengthy narrative of many a events and contains in addition to main narrative of the Battle between Kauravas and Pandavas, several sub plots.

Historians have collected evidences from it since long and have accepted only those evidences which have been corroborated by other sources like archaeology. Hence to reject it as totally useless source is as wrong as to believe it to be totally dependable source. While using its evidences one has to be patient and cautious.

You have rightly said that ''not everybody is fond of diving into heaps of pages'' which leads to development of misconception about the use of bulky sized ancient traditional literature like Vedic literature, Puranas, Epics and so on.

Thanks and best wishes,

DrRajpalSingh
August 14th, 2013, 08:36 AM
The world over, the accepted method adopted to use traditions is that such evidences are accepted after verifying the same from other sources carefully. Thus subjectivity is reduced as much as possible.


The same applies to Ancient Indian Historical sources. Indologists/Historians make use of epics or other tradition related literary sources containing traditions after comparing and contrasting them with other accessible and available sources.

urmiladuhan
August 27th, 2013, 01:04 PM
I tried searching for a Kushana related thread on the site but found them 'locked'. So, I am posting in this general thread.

Regarding Kushana coins, I have noticed that the images of men on them possess quite prominent noses. Good looking people, I must say.

Regards,

Urmila.

DrRajpalSingh
August 27th, 2013, 07:09 PM
I tried searching for a Kushana related thread on the site but found them 'locked'. So, I am posting in this general thread.

Regarding Kushana coins, I have noticed that the images of men on them possess quite prominent noses. Good looking people, I must say.

Regards,

Urmila.

Good. Kindly share more observations.

The coins of the Kushanas are found in abundance and they throw open many a dark corners of our ancient history. As the topic of the thread is sources of Indian History, you are welcome to contribute on this thread. Several numismatists have studied ancient coins to reconstruct our past history.

Readers are welcome to share their views on any aspect of numismatic study here.

Thanks and regards,

urmiladuhan
August 27th, 2013, 07:35 PM
More observations! O.k.

On some coins the Kushana riding an elephant is kind of bigger than the elephant itself! It perhaps speaks of the confidence they had in their own power and size :)

Almost all kushana coins have a 4 pronged stand/altar besides the standing/sitting Kushana. I wonder what it stands for.



Good. Kindly share more observations.

The coins of the Kushanas are found in abundance and they throw open many a dark corners of our ancient history. As the topic of the thread is sources of Indian History, you are welcome to contribute on this thread. Several numismatists have studied ancient coins to reconstruct our past history.

Readers are welcome to share their views on any aspect of numismatic study here.

Thanks and regards,

ssgoyat
September 15th, 2013, 02:50 PM
http://timesofindia.speakingtree.in/spiritual-slideshow/seekers/philosophy/arjuna-was-not-a-kshatriya/36984

Funny article, making almost every character of the novel mahabharatha as Brahmin.

I still wonder, what's the point in bramhmanising in a fictitious novel.

urmiladuhan
September 15th, 2013, 06:27 PM
Perhaps written by a Brahmin.


http://timesofindia.speakingtree.in/spiritual-slideshow/seekers/philosophy/arjuna-was-not-a-kshatriya/36984

Funny article, making almost every character of the novel mahabharatha as Brahmin.

I still wonder, what's the point in bramhmanising in a fictitious novel.

DrRajpalSingh
September 15th, 2013, 06:53 PM
Perhaps written by a Brahmin.


This is a blog by Vivek Kumar and comments on it have appeared at the bottom from cross section of readers.

But it is not a source of history, but a comment on some aspect of history as revealed from Epic Mahabharata.

So readers must read and enjoy it as a blog posted; nothing more nor less.

Thanks and regards

rkumar
October 2nd, 2013, 04:16 AM
Accidently happened to find an interesting book titled "The Open Secret of India, Israel and Mexico; from Genesis to Revelations!"

http://books.google.com/books?id=lxjPzKPHxwoC&pg=PA97&lpg=PA97&dq=sakha+republic+rama&source=bl&ots=LUg5WUwxiK&sig=VdQ1N_jImD31LS4hbo_5yZLSUps&hl=en&sa=X&ei=L0tLUu3NL_bH4APJ0ICAAg&ved=0CFAQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=sakha%20republic%20rama&f=false

Author tends to prove Hindu and Turkic origin of vast population on Earth. very interesting observations.

Another book by the same author puts whole history on its head;

http://books.google.com/books?id=esLf-OV034kC&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=Bharyut&source=bl&ots=i52Wnxewt7&sig=dHzPrJIAZGKwCVEnmzWKFCdbWSE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=wmRLUp_2MPez4AOLsoHQBA&ved=0CEcQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Bharyut&f=false


RK^2

DrRajpalSingh
October 2nd, 2013, 06:51 AM
Thanks Kumarji for locating the interesting books on the topic.

Hope that readers would be immensely benefitted with this latest

addition to the existing knowledge of the topic under reference.

Regards.

DrRajpalSingh
October 23rd, 2013, 09:41 AM
Minor clarification:

This is to say that the word 'source' is used in the context of data/information and it generally consists of two categories i.e.

primary sources and secondary sources. Some people inadvertently use its alternate as resource which is not correct.

Thanks

DrRajpalSingh
October 26th, 2013, 08:42 AM
The Haryana Archaeology Department has seized 151 gold and 120 silver coins dating back to Mughal period.....

for full report log in www.tribuneindia.com The Tribune, Chandigarh, Saturday October 26, 2013, p.4

DrRajpalSingh
October 26th, 2013, 08:46 AM
The Haryana Archaeology Department has seized 151 gold and 120 silver coins dating back to Mughal period.....

for full report log in www.tribuneindia.com (http://www.tribuneindia.com) The Tribune, Chandigarh, Saturday October 26, 2013, p.4

With due acknowledgement to the Tribune, report is produced here in under:


Mughal era gold, silver coins seized from farm labourer
Tribune News Servicehttp://www.tribuneindia.com/2013/20131026/har4.jpgHisar, October 25
The Haryana Archaeology Department has seized 151 gold and 120 silver coins dating back to Mughal period from a farm labourer at Bhata village in the district.
Sajjan Kumar stumbled upon the treasure trove while ploughing a field at Akanwali village of Mansa district in Punjab about four months ago.
The Hisar police had given the custody of the seized coins to the Zonal Museum of the state Archeological Department yesterday.
Museum in charge SP Chalia said: “Each gold coin weights around 10 gram though the coins varied in sizes. The coins are made from pure 24 carat gold and are nearly 300 years old. The total weight of the seized coins is around 1.5 kg.”
Chalia said the seized coins would be put on display in the museum after completion of the court formalities.
A police official said the accused found the coins while levelling a field at Akanwali village earlier this year. One of his close friends got a whiff of it and informed the police.

urmiladuhan
October 26th, 2013, 11:50 AM
With due acknowledgement to the Tribune, report is produced here in under:


Mughal era gold, silver coins seized from farm labourer
Tribune News Servicehttp://www.tribuneindia.com/2013/20131026/har4.jpgHisar, October 25
The Haryana Archaeology Department has seized 151 gold and 120 silver coins dating back to Mughal period from a farm labourer at Bhata village in the district.
Sajjan Kumar stumbled upon the treasure trove while ploughing a field at Akanwali village of Mansa district in Punjab about four months ago.
The Hisar police had given the custody of the seized coins to the Zonal Museum of the state Archeological Department yesterday.
Museum in charge SP Chalia said: “Each gold coin weights around 10 gram though the coins varied in sizes. The coins are made from pure 24 carat gold and are nearly 300 years old. The total weight of the seized coins is around 1.5 kg.”
Chalia said the seized coins would be put on display in the museum after completion of the court formalities.
A police official said the accused found the coins while levelling a field at Akanwali village earlier this year. One of his close friends got a whiff of it and informed the police.


Not much of a friend, was he?!

DrRajpalSingh
October 26th, 2013, 02:52 PM
Not much of a friend, was he?!

Whatever he were to him, he is undoubtedly real friend of those who are collecting sources of Indian history.

So he deserves kudos !

vdhillon
October 27th, 2013, 10:29 AM
Thanks sir, book marked...for later reading ...


Accidently happened to find an interesting book titled "The Open Secret of India, Israel and Mexico; from Genesis to Revelations!"

http://books.google.com/books?id=lxjPzKPHxwoC&pg=PA97&lpg=PA97&dq=sakha+republic+rama&source=bl&ots=LUg5WUwxiK&sig=VdQ1N_jImD31LS4hbo_5yZLSUps&hl=en&sa=X&ei=L0tLUu3NL_bH4APJ0ICAAg&ved=0CFAQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=sakha%20republic%20rama&f=false

Author tends to prove Hindu and Turkic origin of vast population on Earth. very interesting observations.

Another book by the same author puts whole history on its head;

http://books.google.com/books?id=esLf-OV034kC&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=Bharyut&source=bl&ots=i52Wnxewt7&sig=dHzPrJIAZGKwCVEnmzWKFCdbWSE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=wmRLUp_2MPez4AOLsoHQBA&ved=0CEcQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Bharyut&f=false


RK^2

DrRajpalSingh
November 3rd, 2013, 09:20 AM
Shakhas and Ahallas, sung by traditional singers, also provide a clue/hint to the past events in history and extend help in pointing direction to the researchers to glean more authentic data to substantiate or refute this oral tradition of keeping history of the past alive.

vdhillon
November 3rd, 2013, 12:47 PM
They can be used as a SECONDARY but UNRELIABLE sources, how can they be used as PRIMARY and AUTHENTIC data in the SCIENTIFIC INQUIRY as they wont pass the VALIDITY and RELIABILITY test, as these are glorified poems with mix of historical facts, myth and distortion to appease, etc and all of which are hard it differentiate from each other. I agree the ORAL TRADITION i.e. oral history recorded in the human memory must be documented and researched but caution must be exercised before considering it as scientific source.



Shakhas and Ahallas, sung by traditional singers, also provide a clue/hint to the past events in history and extend help in pointing direction to the researchers to glean more authentic data to substantiate or refute this oral tradition of keeping history of the past alive.

DrRajpalSingh
November 3rd, 2013, 02:29 PM
They can be used as a SECONDARY but UNRELIABLE sources, how can they be used as PRIMARY and AUTHENTIC data in the SCIENTIFIC INQUIRY as they wont pass the VALIDITY and RELIABILITY test, as these are glorified poems with mix of historical facts, myth and distortion to appease, etc and all of which are hard it differentiate from each other. I agree the ORAL TRADITION i.e. oral history recorded in the human memory must be documented and researched but caution must be exercised before considering it as scientific source.

Friend

Elaborate explanation of these important sources and their use.

Thanks,