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rajpaldular
October 21st, 2013, 03:44 PM
एक समय था जबकि संपूर्ण धरती पर केवल हिंदू ही थे। मैक्सिको में एक खुदाई के दौरान गणेश और लक्ष्मी की प्राचीन मूर्तियाँ पाई गईं। अफ्रीका में 6 हजार वर्ष पुराना एक शिव मंदिर पाया गया और चीन, इंडोनेशिया, मलेशिया, लाओस, जापान में हजारों वर्ष पूरानी विष्णु, राम और हनुमान की प्रतिमाएं मिलना इस बात के प्रमाण हैं कि हिंदू धर्म संपूर्ण धरती पर था।


'मैक्सिको' शब्द संस्कृत के 'मक्षिका' शब्द से आता है और मैक्सिको में ऐसे हजारों प्रमाण मिलते हैं जिनसे यह सिद्ध होता है। जीसस क्राइस्ट्स से बहुत पहले वहाँ पर हिंदू धर्म प्रचलित था। कोलंबस तो बहुत बाद में आया। सत्य तो यह है कि अमेरिका, विशेषकर दक्षिण-अमेरिका एक ऐसे महाद्वीप का भाग था जिसमें अफ्रीका भी सम्मिलित था। भारत ठीक मध्य में था। अफ्रीका नीचे था और अमेरिका ऊपर था। वे एक बहुत ही उथले सागर से विभक्त थे। आप उसे पैदल चलकर पार कर सकते थे। प्राचीन भारतीय शास्त्रों में इसके उल्लेख हैं। वे कहते हैं कि लोग एशिया से अमेरिका पैदल ही चले जाते थे।


यहाँ तक कि विवाह भी होते थे। कृष्ण के प्रमुख शिष्य और महाभारत के प्रसिद्ध योद्धा अर्जुन ने मैक्सिको की एक लड़की से विवाह किया था। निश्चित ही वे मैक्सिको को मक्षिका कहते थे। परन्तु उसका वर्णन बिलकुल मैक्सिको जैसा ही है। मैक्सिको में हिंदुओं के देवता गणेश की मूर्तियाँ हैं, दूसरी ओर इंग्लैंड में गणेश की मूर्ति का मिलना असंभव है। कहीं भी मिलना असंभव है, जब तक कि वह देश हिंदू धर्म के संपर्क में ना आया हो, जैसे सुमात्रा, बाली और मैक्सिको में संभव है, किन्तु और कहीं नहीं, जब तक वहां हिंदू धर्म ना रहा हो। मैं जो यह कुछ उल्लेख कर रहा हूँ , यदि आप इसके बारे में और अधिक जानकारी पाना चाहते हैं तो आपको भिक्षु चमन लाल की पुस्तक ‘हिंदू अमेरिका’ देखनी पड़ेगी, जो कि उनके जीवनभर का शोधकार्य है।

rkumar
October 21st, 2013, 05:43 PM
Serious research has been carried out on this subject. Here is the link to a book on the subject;

http://www.amazon.com/India-Once-Ruled-Americas-Matlock/dp/0595134688/ref=pd_sim_b_2

Book is written by an American and not some day dreamer Indian by the way.

RK^2

Samarkadian
October 21st, 2013, 06:18 PM
Just Earth? I think they were on Mars and Moon and Sun too.? Ain't it?



एक समय था जबकि संपूर्ण धरती पर केवल हिंदू ही थे। मैक्सिको में एक खुदाई के दौरान गणेश और लक्ष्मी की प्राचीन मूर्तियाँ पाई गईं। अफ्रीका में 6 हजार वर्ष पुराना एक शिव मंदिर पाया गया और चीन, इंडोनेशिया, मलेशिया, लाओस, जापान में हजारों वर्ष पूरानी विष्णु, राम और हनुमान की प्रतिमाएं मिलना इस बात के प्रमाण हैं कि हिंदू धर्म संपूर्ण धरती पर था।


'मैक्सिको' शब्द संस्कृत के 'मक्षिका' शब्द से आता है और मैक्सिको में ऐसे हजारों प्रमाण मिलते हैं जिनसे यह सिद्ध होता है। जीसस क्राइस्ट्स से बहुत पहले वहाँ पर हिंदू धर्म प्रचलित था। कोलंबस तो बहुत बाद में आया। सत्य तो यह है कि अमेरिका, विशेषकर दक्षिण-अमेरिका एक ऐसे महाद्वीप का भाग था जिसमें अफ्रीका भी सम्मिलित था। भारत ठीक मध्य में था। अफ्रीका नीचे था और अमेरिका ऊपर था। वे एक बहुत ही उथले सागर से विभक्त थे। आप उसे पैदल चलकर पार कर सकते थे। प्राचीन भारतीय शास्त्रों में इसके उल्लेख हैं। वे कहते हैं कि लोग एशिया से अमेरिका पैदल ही चले जाते थे।


यहाँ तक कि विवाह भी होते थे। कृष्ण के प्रमुख शिष्य और महाभारत के प्रसिद्ध योद्धा अर्जुन ने मैक्सिको की एक लड़की से विवाह किया था। निश्चित ही वे मैक्सिको को मक्षिका कहते थे। परन्तु उसका वर्णन बिलकुल मैक्सिको जैसा ही है। मैक्सिको में हिंदुओं के देवता गणेश की मूर्तियाँ हैं, दूसरी ओर इंग्लैंड में गणेश की मूर्ति का मिलना असंभव है। कहीं भी मिलना असंभव है, जब तक कि वह देश हिंदू धर्म के संपर्क में ना आया हो, जैसे सुमात्रा, बाली और मैक्सिको में संभव है, किन्तु और कहीं नहीं, जब तक वहां हिंदू धर्म ना रहा हो। मैं जो यह कुछ उल्लेख कर रहा हूँ , यदि आप इसके बारे में और अधिक जानकारी पाना चाहते हैं तो आपको भिक्षु चमन लाल की पुस्तक ‘हिंदू अमेरिका’ देखनी पड़ेगी, जो कि उनके जीवनभर का शोधकार्य है।

RathiJi
October 21st, 2013, 07:10 PM
Ice age ki baat to nahi kahunga but Jesus to Jumma Jumma chaar din ki baat hai Hindusim ke saamne ( fir Mohammad ya Columbus ki kya baat karu ) , Jesus se pehle to Chanakya Taxilla me padhai karke Nalanda me professor reh chuke the, Mauryan dynasty wale Samarkand thak bhagwa lehra chuke the, Samrat Ashoka ek kabhi na mitne wala itihaas likh chuke the, Cholas Indian ocean ki vicinity me aane wale saare desho tak Hindusim le ja chuke the. Aur bhi bahut kuch hai batane ko Rajpal ji jo Vedic period se shuru hota hai. Jab log jaanwar maar ke unko kaccha kha rahe the or nange ghoom rahe the ,Hindu civil code or universities bana chuke the. Parantu samay samay ki baat hai aaj Hindu/Sanatan/Vedic dharam ko usi ke log neecha dikhane ki koshish karte hai.

prateekdhaka
October 21st, 2013, 07:30 PM
don't know the authenticity.

http://www.richardcassaro.com/the-ancient-secret-of-the-swastika-the-hidden-history-of-the-white-race-p-1-of-2

swaich
October 21st, 2013, 10:20 PM
A review of the same book. The Amazon link posted above also has a favorable review, but the critical review below is more detailed.


Gene Matlock's book presents a hyper-diffusionist account of how Hindu culture/religion and many features of the Sanskrit language, originally found in Siberia and later in India, allegedly spread from the latter in an early diaspora to groups such as the Biblical Israelites, early Europeans and Amerindians. This, he says, has been obscured by subsequent degeneration in India and the refusal of mainstream scholars to face the evidence.

However, he himself produces little or no solid evidence. Instead he simply invites his readers to see repeated parallels between myths/legends/popular historical ideas involving India and their equivalents elsewhere. He suggests that archaeological and other evidence supports his views, but it is far from clear that this is so. In places Matlock makes wild claims, eg that ancient Indians used powered aircraft. He quotes various Indian and pro-Hindu sources in his support, but most of them are of low credibility.
However, much of his 'evidence' involves an 18th Century approach to historical linguistics. Matlock identifies unsystematic, superficial similarities between Sanskrit/Indic, Hebrew and Amerindian languages. He concludes that Amerindian and other non-Indian languages derive largely from Sanskrit or Kashmiri. But conclusions like this simply cannot be supported with loose evidence of the kind used (as 200 years of scholarship has made plain). Matlock does not even seem to realise that the grammars and phonologies of Indic and Amerindian languages are completely different in type.
And he oversimplifies the debate on Amerindian origins! He contrasts his ideas and a common traditional Amerindian view (ie, the Amerindians were created where they now live). Fringe archaeologists like Goodman and activists like Deloria have supported such ideas against mainstream scientific findings, and it is easy for Matlock to make them appear less plausible than his own views. But he ignores the mainstream views themselves, ie, there was indeed 'diffusion' from the Old World to the New, but at a much earlier date than he proposes and mainly or entirely by land via Beringia (not by ocean-borne expeditions). In addition, it is not clear why Matlock places so much more reliance on traditional narratives if they come from India rather than from the Americas!
Matlock's exaggerated view of his own importance is displayed in a declaration on the fly-leaf of this book. He warns readers, rather bombastically, that the book will 'destroy' their cherished beliefs and pet theories. It will have no such effect on a well-informed reader, of course. But it might mislead untrained readers - and this gives me my only real reason for bothering to review it.


I urge readers not to buy this book (unless it is very cheap, second-hand). But readers who know enough linguistics may at least have a good laugh.

desijat
October 22nd, 2013, 02:24 AM
मैं तो ऐसे ही दुखी हो रहा था की इतने दिनों से किसी तीरथ दर्शन नहीं किया क्यूंकि भारत जाना नहीं हुआ, चलो कोई नहीं मेरे यहाँ से मेक्सिको ज्यादा दूर नहीं.. राजपाल जी १-२ तीर्थ स्थलों के नाम बता दो मेक्सिको के

shekharjat
October 23rd, 2013, 01:49 AM
मैं तो ऐसे ही दुखी हो रहा था की इतने दिनों से किसी तीरथ दर्शन नहीं किया क्यूंकि भारत जाना नहीं हुआ, चलो कोई नहीं मेरे यहाँ से मेक्सिको ज्यादा दूर नहीं.. राजपाल जी १-२ तीर्थ स्थलों के नाम बता दो मेक्सिको के tirath jane ki koi jaroorat hi nahi......app ka tirath to apka mann hai isse bure vicharo sai aur bure logo se baccha lo app sabse acche ho jaoge.......hinduism ki ye bhi ek paradigm hai.....

desi bhai

rajpaldular
October 23rd, 2013, 12:56 PM
Just Earth? I think they were on Mars and Moon and Sun too.? Ain't it?


आप कहाँ रहना पसंद करेंगे? क्या सूर्य पर? ;)

ssgoyat
October 23rd, 2013, 08:20 PM
I mistook the title for fraction of second.

पृथ्वी पर केवल jat थे....:livid:

DrRajpalSingh
November 11th, 2013, 08:08 AM
The title of the thread is fit for a fairytale book; at no time in the history of the world, prevalence of Hindus only all over on the Globe, can be proved.

narenderkharb
November 11th, 2013, 09:43 PM
The title of the thread is fit for a fairytale book; at no time in the history of the world, prevalence of Hindus only all over on the Globe, can be proved.


Hinduon se pahle Jat thae.

DrRajpalSingh
November 12th, 2013, 08:40 AM
Hinduon se pahle Jat thae.


Friends,

The problem is somewhat like whether Hen came first or the Egg of Hen ! And How !!

Thanks and regards,

DrRajpalSingh
November 12th, 2013, 08:42 AM
The puzzle could be solved only if anyone substantiates one's claim

by fixing the exact date/time line of the words HINDU and Jat

when these two terms entered the vocabulary of some language.

ravinderpannu
November 12th, 2013, 01:36 PM
What's so strange in it if a religion was present earlier/...!!!
Another 100 or 200 years ,,there is a possiblity that there willl only be Muslims and Christians..!!


Just Earth? I think they were on Mars and Moon and Sun too.? Ain't it?

vicky84
November 13th, 2013, 03:10 AM
What's so strange in it if a religion was present earlier/...!!!
Another 100 or 200 years ,,there is a possiblity that there willl only be Muslims and Christians..!!

hahaha!! Bahut dare hue ho bhai kisi scare campaign se!!

ravinderpannu
November 13th, 2013, 02:02 PM
Because when there are traitors inside,, being scared is good.

and i just presented a probable possibility ,,it may be otherwise also.


hahaha!! Bahut dare hue ho bhai kisi scare campaign se!!

neetusheoran
November 14th, 2013, 11:59 AM
Very intersting, true and informative. Keep posting.

The earth evolved with hinduism and only hinduism. This is an ultimate truth to be proud upon being a proud hindu.

neetusheoran
November 14th, 2013, 12:07 PM
What's so strange in it if a religion was present earlier/...!!!
Another 100 or 200 years ,,there is a possiblity that there willl only be Muslims and Christians..!!

Mr Pannu, you have not completely understood the context of the post. Its infact about the evolution of life on this planet which started with only hinduism, rest religions came in to existence afterwards.

rajpaldular
November 14th, 2013, 12:49 PM
Mr Pannu, you have not completely understood the context of the post. Its infact about the evolution of life on this planet which started with only hinduism, rest religions came in to existence afterwards.


Exactly !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:tears_of_joy:

anil_rathee
November 14th, 2013, 02:47 PM
off-topic may be...
Hinduism / Vedic Dharma / Sanatan Dharma whatever we call it is not a religion...
We always mix religion and Dharma which are two different things... Religions we know today are not dharma, better word in hindi for them is sampradaya... There are certain common feature among all religions which differ them from Sanatan Dharma...



Mr Pannu, you have not completely understood the context of the post. Its infact about the evolution of life on this planet which started with only hinduism, rest religions came in to existence afterwards.

Prikshit
November 14th, 2013, 04:47 PM
What's so strange in it if a religion was present earlier/...!!!
Another 100 or 200 years ,,there is a possiblity that there willl only be Muslims and Christians..!!
I agree to you, we can't rule out this possibility. Pehla kya tha that has its importance but what we have now and are we able to preserve is something we need to ponder over.

Desi, Tirath ka te na bera, but I have a mexican friend and the way the mexican culture has evolved is kinda similar to ours, I am not supporting anybody's findings. Waise mexico is not far from US, why not search it out and tell us?

Samarkadian
November 15th, 2013, 09:00 PM
Mr Pannu, you have not completely understood the context of the post. Its infact about the evolution of life on this planet which started with only hinduism, rest religions came in to existence afterwards.

Great!! All those Amoeba and Blue Green Algaes were Hindu. Darwin is bowing down to this somewhere.

DrRajpalSingh
November 16th, 2013, 07:59 PM
एक समय था जबकि संपूर्ण धरती पर केवल हिंदू ही थे। मैक्सिको में एक खुदाई के दौरान गणेश और लक्ष्मी की प्राचीन मूर्तियाँ पाई गईं। अफ्रीका में 6 हजार वर्ष पुराना एक शिव मंदिर पाया गया और चीन, इंडोनेशिया, मलेशिया, लाओस, जापान में हजारों वर्ष पूरानी विष्णु, राम और हनुमान की प्रतिमाएं मिलना इस बात के प्रमाण हैं कि हिंदू धर्म संपूर्ण धरती पर था।


'मैक्सिको' शब्द संस्कृत के 'मक्षिका' शब्द से आता है और मैक्सिको में ऐसे हजारों प्रमाण मिलते हैं जिनसे यह सिद्ध होता है। जीसस क्राइस्ट्स से बहुत पहले वहाँ पर हिंदू धर्म प्रचलित था। कोलंबस तो बहुत बाद में आया। सत्य तो यह है कि अमेरिका, विशेषकर दक्षिण-अमेरिका एक ऐसे महाद्वीप का भाग था जिसमें अफ्रीका भी सम्मिलित था। भारत ठीक मध्य में था। अफ्रीका नीचे था और अमेरिका ऊपर था। वे एक बहुत ही उथले सागर से विभक्त थे। आप उसे पैदल चलकर पार कर सकते थे। प्राचीन भारतीय शास्त्रों में इसके उल्लेख हैं। वे कहते हैं कि लोग एशिया से अमेरिका पैदल ही चले जाते थे।


यहाँ तक कि विवाह भी होते थे। कृष्ण के प्रमुख शिष्य और महाभारत के प्रसिद्ध योद्धा अर्जुन ने मैक्सिको की एक लड़की से विवाह किया था। निश्चित ही वे मैक्सिको को मक्षिका कहते थे। परन्तु उसका वर्णन बिलकुल मैक्सिको जैसा ही है। मैक्सिको में हिंदुओं के देवता गणेश की मूर्तियाँ हैं, दूसरी ओर इंग्लैंड में गणेश की मूर्ति का मिलना असंभव है। कहीं भी मिलना असंभव है, जब तक कि वह देश हिंदू धर्म के संपर्क में ना आया हो, जैसे सुमात्रा, बाली और मैक्सिको में संभव है, किन्तु और कहीं नहीं, जब तक वहां हिंदू धर्म ना रहा हो। मैं जो यह कुछ उल्लेख कर रहा हूँ , यदि आप इसके बारे में और अधिक जानकारी पाना चाहते हैं तो आपको भिक्षु चमन लाल की पुस्तक ‘हिंदू अमेरिका’ देखनी पड़ेगी, जो कि उनके जीवनभर का शोधकार्य है।

Leave aside the question of long-standing of the religious beliefs for a while please.

It would be great if the Protagonists of this thread theme could tell us where the first human life started on the globe and when !

AbhikRana
November 16th, 2013, 10:26 PM
Hinduism is the oldest religion/faith (way of life) of the world.

But the apologists and the so-called rationalists will find one way or the other to object to this fact. In fact they always seek western scholars to put their stamp of approval on Indian subjects.

The very mention of the word 'Hindu' or 'Hinduism' raises the heckles of the apologists/rationalists who would leave no chance to criticize or be unnecessarily apologetic for their faith or anything associated with their faith.

For once, be proud of who you are and do not play into the hands of this communal congress and its paid media.

swaich
November 16th, 2013, 10:32 PM
The Harappans were Hindu, as were the Mesopotamians, the Sumerians, the Egyptians and the Chinese. There was never any doubt about it and to hell with proofs of what I said.

There, does that make me patriot enough?

narenderkharb
November 17th, 2013, 08:20 AM
Friends,

The problem is somewhat like whether Hen came first or the Egg of Hen ! And How !!

Thanks and regards,
Is it really so difficult ?

DrRajpalSingh
November 17th, 2013, 08:28 AM
Is it really so difficult ?

The puzzle remains unresolved about the issue raised by way of theme of the thread.

narenderkharb
November 17th, 2013, 08:29 AM
Ganesh ji in Mexico ???

Lord Ganesh to India mein hi bahut late aaye the.....I mean concept of Lord Ganesha in Hinduism is a later innovation.

Mexico /makshica or patala etc have no correlation at all.

I have seen Rajpal Dular ji's posts about seeing aliens on Mars etc......He should post such nonsense posts in Moj Masti section.

narenderkharb
November 17th, 2013, 08:35 AM
The puzzle remains unresolved about the issue raised by way of theme of the thread.


When do you find the first mention of Jats in historical annals?First mention that you are sure refer.... Jats as people.

narenderkharb
November 17th, 2013, 08:46 AM
I think both of us know very well that patala was refereed for lower Sindh area /Patala of earlier times backed by historical scholars ...red Indians were never Asurs ..etc.

Hinduism as we refer to present form of Hindu religion is certainly a later development.

Ganesha as we know don't even find a mention in Vedas what to say about religion of Jats that is older than vedic faith.

DrRajpalSingh
November 17th, 2013, 09:50 AM
When do you find the first mention of Jats in historical annals?First mention that you are sure refer.... Jats as people.

Friend,
To avoid divergence of topic, kindly join discussion on Jats at http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?36019-Etymology-and-Identity-of-the-Word-Jat-amp-Their-Social-Status-through-the-Ages&p=349808#post349808


Thanks and regards,

rajpaldular
March 11th, 2014, 12:46 PM
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/q74/s480x480/1780667_443640525768227_2080694231_n.jpg








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Samarkadian
March 11th, 2014, 02:41 PM
............Was Shiv Ji a Hindu Dular Sahab?

Samarkadian
March 11th, 2014, 02:50 PM
I mistook the title for fraction of second.

पृथ्वी पर केवल jat थे....:livid:

Saare jinawar bhi Hindu dharm ke hai prithvi par goyat.

sanjeev_balyan
March 11th, 2014, 02:56 PM
Saare jinawar bhi Hindu dharm ke hai prithvi par goyat.

Sare nahi , kewal shakahari janwar bhai , veg / non veg ka to khyal kar kam te kam

sanjeev_balyan
March 11th, 2014, 02:57 PM
/////////////////

rajpaldular
March 11th, 2014, 03:08 PM
............was shiv ji a hindu dular sahab?


you can say 'sanatan' also.

rajpaldular
March 11th, 2014, 03:49 PM
............Was Shiv Ji a Hindu Dular Sahab?


आप हिंदुओं का परिहास कर रहे हैं?

Samarkadian
March 12th, 2014, 12:21 PM
आप हिंदुओं का परिहास कर रहे हैं?

Nahi aapne itihaas ka parihas kiya pahle aur phir shiv ji ka. aap kahin se ye pramanit kar de ki ye shiv ji Hindu the ?

rajpaldular
March 12th, 2014, 01:27 PM
Nahi aapne itihaas ka parihas kiya pahle aur phir shiv ji ka. aap kahin se ye pramanit kar de ki ye shiv ji Hindu the ?



मैंने शिवजी का अपमान किया है? ठीक है, शिवजी ही इसको ठीक से जान सकेंगे।


शिव जी की आराधना हिन्दू ही करते हैं इसलिए वो हिन्दू ही हैं कोई म्लेच्छों के देवता नहीं।


करोड़ों वर्ष पुराना इतिहास कहाँ से लाऊँ?


ये बात आस्था से जुडी हुई है, इसलिए आप यदि अहिन्दू हैं अथवा हिन्दू तो हैं पर नास्तिक हैं तो बात को यहीं विराम दे दीजिये।

upendersingh
March 12th, 2014, 11:54 PM
Off course there were Hindus all over the world as all other religions are just around 2000 years old, while Hinduism is very old concept.

upendersingh
March 12th, 2014, 11:55 PM
मैंने शिवजी का अपमान किया है? ठीक है, शिवजी ही इसको ठीक से जान सकेंगे।


Actually, what I guess some people's point is that in Shiv Ji era there is no word like 'Hindu'. It is just 1000 year old word derived from the word 'Sindhu'.
I guess this too that people of such ideology want all the Hindus to stop calling themselves as 'Hindu' first, because it is just 1000 year old word. Such people's plan seems to be when we Hindus stop calling ourselves Hindu then these people will ask us to convert because we are no more Hindus and there is no sanatan or vedic religion now.
Rajpal Dular, if people like me or you advocate and support Hinduism here on this site day-night then I don't think Hinduism is going to gain in any way. Same applies on people of so called secular ideology. They can't harm Hinduism. The reason is simple. We both are ordinary and unknown person. What we ought to do here is to discuss and share thoughts/information sensibly.
I have some questions.
=>Is it fair that some people are not Hindu, but they still use Hindu names, middle names and other rituals? If such people are no more Hindus, then why don't they make their own identity?
=>If we Hindus should stop calling ourselves Hindu, because this word is just 1000 years old, then shouldn't these people stop calling themselves a Jat? Read all about the origin of word Jat. It is the line what this site tells about the origin of the Jats : The most acceptable theory about the origin of the word, 'Jat' is that it has originated from the Sanskrit language word “Gyat”.
So my question is shouldn't such people stop calling themselves a Jat, because this word is given to them by the Hindus? What do you say on it, Rajpal Dular?
=>What problem some people have if mostly Jats are Hindus. A religion is just like a group, an association. Why do such people want the Jats to have a small association like so called religion 'Jat' (nothing but a foolishness)?
I want answers Rajpal Dular, because you show yourself as if one of the biggest supporters of Hinduism?

vicky84
March 13th, 2014, 05:00 AM
Off course there were Hindus all over the world as all other religions are just around 2000 years old, while Hinduism is very old concept.

off course or of course?

Yeah all the mammals born since the inception of life were Hindu.

rajpaldular
March 13th, 2014, 11:29 AM
............Was Shiv Ji a Hindu Dular Sahab?



कृपया "थे" (was) ना लिखें।


शिव अजर, अमर, अविनाशी हैं.


सम्पूर्ण ब्रह्माण्ड के स्वामी हैं महादेव.


शिव को आप नहीं मानते तो ना मानें पर कृपया आप हमारी आस्था पर कुठाराघात ना करें।

narenderkharb
March 14th, 2014, 06:14 AM
कृपया "थे" (was) ना लिखें।


शिव अजर, अमर, अविनाशी हैं.


सम्पूर्ण ब्रह्माण्ड के स्वामी हैं महादेव.


शिव को आप नहीं मानते तो ना मानें पर कृपया आप हमारी आस्था पर कुठाराघात ना करें।

Emotional Atyaachaar....

vicky84
March 14th, 2014, 06:56 AM
=>Is it fair that some people are not Hindu, but they still use Hindu names, middle names and other rituals? If such people are no more Hindus, then why don't they make their own identity?


You first stop using English words, Urdu words, Turkish words, Persian and Arabic words. And then advocate others.

DrRajpalSingh
March 14th, 2014, 07:59 AM
Actually, what I guess some people's point is that in Shiv Ji era there is no word like 'Hindu'. It is just 1000 year old word derived from the word 'Sindhu'.
I guess this too that people of such ideology want all the Hindus to stop calling themselves as 'Hindu' first, because it is just 1000 year old word. Such people's plan seems to be when we Hindus stop calling ourselves Hindu then these people will ask us to convert because we are no more Hindus and there is no sanatan or vedic religion now.
Rajpal Dular, if people like me or you advocate and support Hinduism here on this site day-night then I don't think Hinduism is going to gain in any way. Same applies on people of so called secular ideology. They can't harm Hinduism. The reason is simple. We both are ordinary and unknown person. What we ought to do here is to discuss and share thoughts/information sensibly.
I have some questions.
=>Is it fair that some people are not Hindu, but they still use Hindu names, middle names and other rituals? If such people are no more Hindus, then why don't they make their own identity?
=>If we Hindus should stop calling ourselves Hindu, because this word is just 1000 years old, then shouldn't these people stop calling themselves a Jat? Read all about the origin of word Jat. It is the line what this site tells about the origin of the Jats : The most acceptable theory about the origin of the word, 'Jat' is that it has originated from the Sanskrit language word “Gyat”.
So my question is shouldn't such people stop calling themselves a Jat, because this word is given to them by the Hindus? What do you say on it, Rajpal Dular?
=>What problem some people have if mostly Jats are Hindus. A religion is just like a group, an association. Why do such people want the Jats to have a small association like so called religion 'Jat' (nothing but a foolishness)?
I want answers Rajpal Dular, because you show yourself as if one of the biggest supporters of Hinduism?

Jat community is very vast and professes almost all the religions/faiths under the sun.

So what is harm to leave the Jats to live as closely knit kinship group of population and not bound to one and only one religion.

DrRajpalSingh
March 14th, 2014, 07:59 AM
Actually, what I guess some people's point is that in Shiv Ji era there is no word like 'Hindu'. It is just 1000 year old word derived from the word 'Sindhu'.
I guess this too that people of such ideology want all the Hindus to stop calling themselves as 'Hindu' first, because it is just 1000 year old word. Such people's plan seems to be when we Hindus stop calling ourselves Hindu then these people will ask us to convert because we are no more Hindus and there is no sanatan or vedic religion now.
Rajpal Dular, if people like me or you advocate and support Hinduism here on this site day-night then I don't think Hinduism is going to gain in any way. Same applies on people of so called secular ideology. They can't harm Hinduism. The reason is simple. We both are ordinary and unknown person. What we ought to do here is to discuss and share thoughts/information sensibly.
I have some questions.
=>Is it fair that some people are not Hindu, but they still use Hindu names, middle names and other rituals? If such people are no more Hindus, then why don't they make their own identity?
=>If we Hindus should stop calling ourselves Hindu, because this word is just 1000 years old, then shouldn't these people stop calling themselves a Jat? Read all about the origin of word Jat. It is the line what this site tells about the origin of the Jats : The most acceptable theory about the origin of the word, 'Jat' is that it has originated from the Sanskrit language word “Gyat”.
So my question is shouldn't such people stop calling themselves a Jat, because this word is given to them by the Hindus? What do you say on it, Rajpal Dular?
=>What problem some people have if mostly Jats are Hindus. A religion is just like a group, an association. Why do such people want the Jats to have a small association like so called religion 'Jat' (nothing but a foolishness)?
I want answers Rajpal Dular, because you show yourself as if one of the biggest supporters of Hinduism?

Jat community is very vast and professes almost all the religions/faiths under the sun.

So what is harm to leave the Jats to live as closely knit kinship group of population and not bound to one and only one religion.

upendersingh
March 14th, 2014, 04:47 PM
Jat community is very vast and professes almost all the religions/faiths under the sun.

So what is harm to leave the Jats to live as closely knit kinship group of population and not bound to one and only one religion.


Dr. RajPal Janghu, don't you think other communities (be it Rajputs, Brahmins or even Dalits) are very vast and profess almost all the religions/faiths under the sun?
There is no harm to leave the Jats to live as closely knit kinship group of population and not bound to one and only one religion. Who is asking the Jats to do so? Jats are tolerant in religious matters. Ok fine. They are not staunch and fanatics. Ok fine. But they shouldn't insult the religion they are availing. Am I wrong? They should be neutral and calm. If someone can't then simply stop availing that religion. Am I wrong? One will avail Hinduism and abuse that at times, it is nothing but thanklessness. Why does one do so? What is the need? Are Hindu bad people? How? They have not invaded any country ever. They just reacted and never harassed any body first. Am I wrong? If someone tries to insult them openly because they are tolerant then he should be questioned. Actually some people think criticizing Hinduism make them impressive, progressive and ultra modern. But it is not good enough, Dr. RajPal Janghu.

upendersingh
March 14th, 2014, 05:01 PM
off course or of course?

Yeah all the mammals born since the inception of life were Hindu.

Look in many books it is clear that other oldest civilizations (i.e. Egyptian, Maya etc.) have symptoms of Hinduism/sanatan/vedic (e.g. worshiping cows, demigods, burning lamps in evening, temples, pilgrims etc.). Ramayana, Mahabharata etc. are popular all around the world. Idols of Lord Rama, Lord Shiva, Lord Ganesha and many other Hindu icons are found in earth in many other parts of the world time to time. It is highly possible that Hinduism/sanatan had reach to whole world some time and then whole population of the world might well be very less. Now it is around 7+ billion, then it might be just in lacs or crores.

cooljat
March 14th, 2014, 05:21 PM
Right said bro, all Jat read 'hindu Jats' follow all the hindu rituals and customs from birth till death, celebrate same festivals, use Ram Ram in greetings and worship 'Bajrang Bali' 'Shiv Bhagwan' but still few of intellectual ones refuse to consider themselves Hindu. Bera na aasman se utare hain ya dharti se nikle hain!? :) :)


After converting to Christianity you seem to have gone out of your senses. There are 2 answers for your above rubbish and I have answered in past as well. First you give all the account of looted gold and other assets by your master Britons and Turkish, Persian and Arabs. I will stop using English words, Urdu words, Turkish words, Persian and Arabic words. Second answer is I don't ridicule these languages. If I insult these languages then you can say I am wrong. Some people are availing Hinduism and still they ridicule it. That is my problem.

Samarkadian
March 14th, 2014, 07:55 PM
Right said bro, all Jat read 'hindu Jats' follow all the hindu rituals and customs from birth till death, celebrate same festivals, use Ram Ram in greetings and worship 'Bajrang Bali' 'Shiv Bhagwan' but still few of intellectual ones refuse to consider themselves Hindu. Bera na aasman se utare hain ya dharti se nikle hain!? :) :)

Bhaisahab, likde t ude t hain saare jit t ye ram shiv ji mai ar tu likde hai.

Ram /Bajrang Bali were Hindu ? Where word Hindu is mentioned in Ramayana Maharbharta ? Instead of questioning other's intellect read why something was said. Was it historicaly right on present facts?

With no ill regard to anyone's faith but to question the identity of what were jat genuinely so that I can be at peace. At present age I think everybody questions abt roots, the very roots where it all had begun. You have every right to persist and resist but truth is something which will set free me of present myths and mythology. I refuse to believe in mythology and tend to resist which is clearly untrue that whole earth was inhabited by Hindus. Its an insult altogether to the nature with religion is altogether a human concept.

Going by your signature, if jats are lion then most likely they are hunted by Brahmins in to modern form of Hinduism which is vastly brahminism cult and they have been glorified. I am not sure how do you feel as lion but I would like to give back something sometime.

swaich
March 14th, 2014, 10:51 PM
Look in many books it is clear that other oldest civilizations (i.e. Egyptian, Maya etc.) have symptoms of Hinduism/sanatan/vedic (e.g. worshiping cows, demigods, burning lamps in evening, temples, pilgrims etc.). Ramayana, Mahabharata etc. are popular all around the world. Idols of Lord Rama, Lord Shiva, Lord Ganesha and many other Hindu icons are found in earth in many other parts of the world time to time. It is highly possible that Hinduism/sanatan had reach to whole world some time and then whole population of the world might well be very less. Now it is around 7+ billion, then it might be just in lacs or crores.

What you mention as symptoms of Hinduism are elements of worship found in all animistic and pre-Christian religions of the world. All religions practiced by ancient civilizations had these common elements - worship of natural elements, lighting of lamps etc. Yes, Hinduism is perhaps the only one among them to survive untill now, but that doesn't mean it is the ancestor of all those ancient religions.

Please do share references of Hindu icons found all over the world.

upendersingh
March 15th, 2014, 03:40 AM
What you mention as symptoms of Hinduism are elements of worship found in all animistic and pre-Christian religions of the world. All religions practiced by ancient civilizations had these common elements - worship of natural elements, lighting of lamps etc. Yes, Hinduism is perhaps the only one among them to survive untill now, but that doesn't mean it is the ancestor of all those ancient religions.

Please do share references of Hindu icons found all over the world.

Vishnu idol found in Russia
During an excavation in an abandoned village in the Volga region, archaeologist Alexander Kozhevin excavated an ancient Vishnu idol. The idol dates from between the 7th and 10th centuries. Before this discovery, Kozhevin had already unearthed ancient coins, pendants, rings and weapon fragments. The village, Staraya Maina, had been a dense population center approximately 1700 years ago.The Times of India reported that this discovery raised questions about the prevalent view of the origin of ancient Russia. In an interview Kozhevin stated that, "We may consider it incredible, but we have ground to assert that Middle-Volga region was the original land of Ancient Rus. This is a hypothesis, but a hypothesis, which requires thorough research."
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ........
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-VJiY06E22J0/UtO8mwpkmGI/AAAAAAAAEwQ/4KgAiMi6zKg/w268-h227/siva%2Btemple%2Bin%2Bmexico.jpg
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ......
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BDh8NsOCMAAV_ua.jpg
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..........
Indonesia like much of Southeast Asia was influenced by Indian culture. From the second century, through the Indian Dynasties like the Pallava dynasty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pallava_dynasty), Gupta Empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gupta_Empire), Pala Empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pala_Empire) and Chola Empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chola_Empire) in the succeeding centuries up to the 12th century, Indian culture spread across all of Southeast, References to the Dvipantara or Yawadvipa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java), a Hindu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu) kingdom in Java (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_(island)) and Sumatra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumatra) appear in Sanskrit writings from 200 BCE. In India (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India)'s earliest epic, the Ramayana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramayana), Sugriva, the chief of Rama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rama)'s army dispatched his men to Yawadvipa, the island of Java, in search of Sita (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sita). The earliest archeological relic discovered in Indonesia is from the Ujung Kulon National Park, West Java, where an early Hindu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu) statue of Ganesha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganesha) estimated from the 1st century CE was found on the summit of Mount Raksa in Panaitan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panaitan) island.
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ............

upendersingh
March 15th, 2014, 03:42 AM
<tbody>
32000 year old Idol of Narasimha (Lord Vishnu's Avatar) found in Germany


</tbody>

Many news about prehistoric founds and their possible meaning reached the world in the last decades. One of them, found in South Germany, puts scientist around the world in amazement. The centerpiece is the lion man, an idol that is made from the tusk of a mammoth in the form of a human body with a lion head. Amazingly it is dated back 32,000 years from now.
This discovery brought a lot of attention in the archaeological circles in Europe. In Excavations around 1930-35 at the Lonetal area near Ulm, German scientist already found an immense cave system with lots of prehistoric artifacts in it.
First, only representations of birds, horses, turtles and even single lions where found but not a morphological combination of men and animal. Naturally the lion man was quite outstanding and unique. It became also clear during the later examinations that the lion-men was used for ritual purposes, unlike the other items which seemed to have accompanied the dead and so on.
The Idol was found exactly at the place in the cave where day and night meet, about 20 meters away from the entrance and buried 1,20 meter deep under the ground. Many parts of the figure were broken and where found a little away in this area. Therefore it took some time to finish the work of completing and reconstructing the figure and to see it as a whole.
From the viewpoint of Vedic culture of ancient India, Lord Vishnu appeared in a divine human form with a lion face to protect his devotee and to stop religiousness. A description of a standing idol form of this lord is found in the agama silpa shastra and is called kevala narasimha. In India still many ancient temples exist, where deities of Sri Narasimha Bhagavan are worshiped, often at special locations like on high mountain peaks or in caves.
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ......
Ancient Shivling found in Vatican by archeologists
https://m.ak.fbcdn.net/sphotos-d.ak/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/73364_584940688189995_1007287231_n.jpg

upendersingh
March 15th, 2014, 03:48 AM
Ancient EgyptThe ancient Egyptians sacrificed animals but not the cow, because it was sacred to goddess Hathor, and due to the contemporary Greek myth of Io, who had the form of a cow.
In Egyptian mythology, Hesat was the manifestation of Hathor, the divine sky-cow, in earthly form. Like Hathor, she was seen as the wife of Ra. In hieroglyphs she is depicted as acow with a hat.

DrRajpalSingh
March 15th, 2014, 09:08 AM
Dr. RajPal Janghu, don't you think other communities (be it Rajputs, Brahmins or even Dalits) are very vast and profess almost all the religions/faiths under the sun?
There is no harm to leave the Jats to live as closely knit kinship group of population and not bound to one and only one religion. Who is asking the Jats to do so? Jats are tolerant in religious matters. Ok fine. They are not staunch and fanatics. Ok fine. But they shouldn't insult the religion they are availing. Am I wrong? They should be neutral and calm. If someone can't then simply stop availing that religion. Am I wrong? One will avail Hinduism and abuse that at times, it is nothing but thanklessness. Why does one do so? What is the need? Are Hindu bad people? How? They have not invaded any country ever. They just reacted and never harassed any body first. Am I wrong? If someone tries to insult them openly because they are tolerant then he should be questioned. Actually some people think criticizing Hinduism make them impressive, progressive and ultra modern. But it is not good enough, Dr. RajPal Janghu.

Friend,

You have made many sweeping and vague remarks in your lengthy post but I would only comment on one of them leaving others for another time separate discussion.

Religion is an individual choice so I never indulge in criticising any religion what so ever and believe in 'SARVA DHARAMAM SAMBHAV' !

Thanks and regards

Samarkadian
March 15th, 2014, 01:19 PM
Na Bhai .. Ram, Shiva, Hanuman all these were not Hindu but Muslims or Christians. Sometimes, It feels like you have issue with the word 'Hindu' at fist place.

I repeat we do follow all the rituals, customs, festivals of so called Hindus still we don't consider ourselves Hindu, strange. And why to blame Brahmin? Why they are called every time there's some event be it birth, marriage or death? I agree original brahmin are big dhongi but how they can defame or hunt us?

I don't follow what they have to say, don't worship but I do consider myself a Hindu. So what's wrong in that?

I know Jat is a race and they are found in every religion. When Muslim Jats and Sikh Jats consider themselves Muslim and Sikh first. Why only few of us, read Hindu Jats being excessive intellect or hypocrite to consider them Hindus?

I don't understand this double standard. Please clarify ..

First line is derisive but okay. Instead of looking it to the fact that they were not Hindu you said otherwise. Anyways, whatever rituals we are following are not neccessarily Hindu. I am sure you have not read the information I have posted in another thread. Its a long read but will save a lot of argument here.

http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?36613-Brahamanism-The-Politics-of-Knowledge-and-Caste

We are older than Hindu Gods or any other organised Gods of any religion and their rituals. You follow what they have established so in a way you are following what they had said times ago.

I don't consider myself Hindu anymore. I am more of realistic agnostic( I assume you understand the term)

Yes thats my question- why are they called at death, birth marriage etc. You got to read the mentioned thread for that completely.

You yourself consider as Hindu but how those representative Brahmin brigade considers you? Thats should be the question and quest.

You still don't get how Jats history was ignored and How Rajput were made glorious. Your own state for example.

dont counter question me or what have I written just from an unbiased point consider that thread and these tactics.

cooljat
March 15th, 2014, 06:44 PM
Ok, will go through the big thread you mentioned and give you my inputs.

However why to blame Hindu religion blame Brahmins for that matter. Jats never been slave to Brahims and as far I observed they just invite Brahims to do the rituals for formality because most of us still consider ourselves Hindu and there's nothing wrong it that.

Jat Rajput rivalry in Rajasthan is more of power game than religious, though it's true Rajput-Brahimin-Sahukar made alley to defeat Jats but you know the result. Hindu is not Brahim's sole property, Jats are hindu but far less religious.

I observed you have little soft corner for Muslims and Sikhs, that's very much fine but would you dare to urge Jats from these religion to discard their faith and declare themselves as Jats first?


First line is derisive but okay. Instead of looking it to the fact that they were not Hindu you said otherwise. Anyways, whatever rituals we are following are not neccessarily Hindu. I am sure you have not read the information I have posted in another thread. Its a long read but will save a lot of argument here.

http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?36613-Brahamanism-The-Politics-of-Knowledge-and-Caste

We are older than Hindu Gods or any other organised Gods of any religion and their rituals. You follow what they have established so in a way you are following what they had said times ago.

I don't consider myself Hindu anymore. I am more of realistic agnostic( I assume you understand the term)

Yes thats my question- why are they called at death, birth marriage etc. You got to read the mentioned thread for that completely.

You yourself consider as Hindu but how those representative Brahmin brigade considers you? Thats should be the question and quest.

You still don't get how Jats history was ignored and How Rajput were made glorious. Your own state for example.

dont counter question me or what have I written just from an unbiased point consider that thread and these tactics.

AbhikRana
March 15th, 2014, 07:11 PM
If some members feel Hinduism has all the ills, why don't they just give it up?

If Hinduism is a STILL a religion by of and for Brahmins, why do they fill Hindu as their religion in the various forms they fill? Why do they hold Hindu rituals from the beginning till the end? If Brahmins are clever, God has endowed enough wisdom/brains to the Jats. If you feel you have not been given your rightful place/due, make/claim it by your deeds/actions. Nobody stops you from doing so. Jats are not quitters. If the other communities have made their own space, nothing can stop Jats from doing so, PROVIDED WE COME OUT OF THAT MINDSET THAT THINGS WILL BE SERVED TO US ON A PLATTER BECAUSE WE ARE CHAUDHARIES - we will have to work towards it.

To all those who say that Jats irrespective of religion are one. Though the talk of Jats of all religions as one sounds music to our ears, my question/s to you is - would you marry your sister/daughter to a Muslim Jat? Would a Muslim Jat marry his sister/daughter to a Hindu Jat? Would a Muslim Jat foresake Allah and fight for a Jat against a fellow Muslim? NO!!!!! Let's start living in the real world.

AbhikRana
March 15th, 2014, 07:18 PM
Some Congress supporters feign to be pundits/wizards as far as their knowledge of RSS is concerned.

The one regular term used is Kacchadhari. How many innocent people have been killed by the Kacchadharis????

Now look at the Salwarwalas. These salwarwalas have committed terror acts all across the world. But the Congressis would still prefer to target the nationalist Kacchadharis whose only aim is to see a strong and united India and Hindu faith, though not at the cost of other communities.

Whereas at the cost of other communities, Congress is supporting the Salwarwalas and wants to turn it into a national uniform. Best example is COMMUNAL VIOLENCE BILL. For all the Congress supporters I would advise them to read the bill at least once. If they still support the Congress, it goes to prove - VINAASH kAALE VIPAREET BUDHEE!

upendersingh
March 16th, 2014, 12:34 AM
Religion is an individual choice so I never indulge in criticising any religion what so ever and believe in 'SARVA DHARAMAM SAMBHAV' !

Don't agree with you, Dr. Janghu. In Histroy there are lot of examples of compelling others to convert to some particular religion on the point of sword. In present too there are lot of missionaries and Pakistani agents active in India to convert the Hindus to either Christianity or Islam. Don't know which world you are talking of, Dr. Janghu.

upendersingh
March 16th, 2014, 12:49 AM
If some members feel Hinduism has all the ills, why don't they just give it up?

I guess Pakistan/ISI have got some agents in India. These agents have appointed their con men in cyber world. These con men find out some foolish reference about Hinduism and then try to misguide others. Some time back I have noticed many of such con men in cyber world. One of the references was very interesting. It was about the name 'Hindu'. Their point was we should not call us as 'Hindu', because this word is given to us by the Arabs. Ha ha ha.
You tell me if Hinduism is so ancient culture that there was no concept of naming a culture or mode of life, then how could it be possible that we had name (Hindu) from the very beginning? With the evolution some people started calling us Hindu, because we lived around river Sindhu. Then we too felt that if we are being called and recognized as 'Hindu' then let it be. It was part of evolution. We also have given names to others (e.g. Baudh/Buddhist to a lot of people). Tired of such con men. Thank god they don't look around now in cyber world.

DrRajpalSingh
March 16th, 2014, 09:42 AM
Don't agree with you, Dr. Janghu. In Histroy there are lot of examples of compelling others to convert to some particular religion on the point of sword. In present too there are lot of missionaries and Pakistani agents active in India to convert the Hindus to either Christianity or Islam. Don't know which world you are talking of, Dr. Janghu.

I respect your right to disagree with me whether it is with any valid reason or not; but would at the same time like to say that before proceeding further one should clarify to oneself the meaning of 'Dharma' as defined in ancient scriptures.

Kindly also note the thread topic heading before posting your views on the ' historicity or antiquity of the Hinduism' and avoid comments on all religions including Hinduism as practised today.

DrRajpalSingh
March 16th, 2014, 09:56 AM
AN APPEAL :

Members are requested kindly to cooperate, use mild language mixed with solid fact based arguments,


concentrate their posts on the theme of the thread

and

not on the participating members !

Samarkadian
March 16th, 2014, 12:32 PM
Yes ISI is also responsible for Devdasi and Chuachhut traditions of Hinduism propagated by Brahmins.



I guess Pakistan/ISI have got some agents in India. These agents have appointed their con men in cyber world. These con men find out some foolish reference about Hinduism and then try to misguide others. Some time back I have noticed many of such con men in cyber world. One of the references was very interesting. It was about the name 'Hindu'. Their point was we should not call us as 'Hindu', because this word is given to us by the Arabs. Ha ha ha.
You tell me if Hinduism is so ancient culture that there was no concept of naming a culture or mode of life, then how could it be possible that we had name (Hindu) from the very beginning? With the evolution some people started calling us Hindu, because we lived around river Sindhu. Then we too felt that if we are being called and recognized as 'Hindu' then let it be. It was part of evolution. We also have given names to others (e.g. Baudh/Buddhist to a lot of people). Tired of such con men. Thank god they don't look around now in cyber world.

AbhikRana
March 16th, 2014, 05:51 PM
If Brahmins have perpetrated bad practices over ages in Hindu religion, how has it survived for thousands of years? How despite all the ills, people still follow it?

If there have been bad things, there also have been good things in our religion.

I am glad that you have recognized the problems with the Hindu religion. But what are the solutions? You say that it is for the Brahmins to reform the shortcomings and not us. Who stops you/us from reforming the religion?

And if one still does not like the religion, one can convert to any other religion. I am glad that Hinduism gives this freedom unlike a few other religions which place a bar on conversions to other faith/religion.


Yes ISI is also responsible for Devdasi and Chuachhut traditions of Hinduism propagated by Brahmins.

cooljat
March 16th, 2014, 08:50 PM
Right said Bhaisaab, it's so easy to criticise others for our own shortcomings.

Samar Bhai, only Hindu religion gives you freedom to criticise like this. If you dared to criticise Islam your situation would be like Taslima Nasreen and many fatwa would have released on your head.

Btw, chuwachut, sati pratha , baal vivah etc were far better shortcomings than stoning and executing people in public, cutting nose, ears .. and for your info Hindu religion is evolving with time and mostly these ill customs are things of past.


If Brahmins have perpetrated bad practices over ages in Hindu religion, how has it survived for thousands of years? How despite all the ills, people still follow it?

If there have been bad things, there also have been good things in our religion.

I am glad that you have recognized the problems with the Hindu religion. But what are the solutions? You say that it is for the Brahmins to reform the shortcomings and not us. Who stops you/us from reforming the religion?

And if one still does not like the religion, one can convert to any other religion. I am glad that Hinduism gives this freedom unlike a few other religions which place a bar on conversions to other faith/religion.

swaich
March 17th, 2014, 05:20 PM
Vishnu idol found in Russia
During an excavation in an abandoned village in the Volga region, archaeologist Alexander Kozhevin excavated an ancient Vishnu idol. The idol dates from between the 7th and 10th centuries. Before this discovery, Kozhevin had already unearthed ancient coins, pendants, rings and weapon fragments. The village, Staraya Maina, had been a dense population center approximately 1700 years ago.The Times of India reported that this discovery raised questions about the prevalent view of the origin of ancient Russia. In an interview Kozhevin stated that, "We may consider it incredible, but we have ground to assert that Middle-Volga region was the original land of Ancient Rus. This is a hypothesis, but a hypothesis, which requires thorough research."
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ........
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-VJiY06E22J0/UtO8mwpkmGI/AAAAAAAAEwQ/4KgAiMi6zKg/w268-h227/siva%2Btemple%2Bin%2Bmexico.jpg
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ......
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BDh8NsOCMAAV_ua.jpg
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..........
Indonesia like much of Southeast Asia was influenced by Indian culture. From the second century, through the Indian Dynasties like the Pallava dynasty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pallava_dynasty), Gupta Empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gupta_Empire), Pala Empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pala_Empire) and Chola Empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chola_Empire) in the succeeding centuries up to the 12th century, Indian culture spread across all of Southeast, References to the Dvipantara or Yawadvipa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java), a Hindu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu) kingdom in Java (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_(island)) and Sumatra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumatra) appear in Sanskrit writings from 200 BCE. In India (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India)'s earliest epic, the Ramayana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramayana), Sugriva, the chief of Rama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rama)'s army dispatched his men to Yawadvipa, the island of Java, in search of Sita (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sita). The earliest archeological relic discovered in Indonesia is from the Ujung Kulon National Park, West Java, where an early Hindu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu) statue of Ganesha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganesha) estimated from the 1st century CE was found on the summit of Mount Raksa in Panaitan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panaitan) island.
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ............



South East Asia and places which were touched Indian traders and military endeavors surely have remnants and traced of Hinduism; no doubt about that. One look at Cambodia's Angkor Wat ruins and the similarity with South Indian temples is unmistakable.

I was expecting sources, scholarly articles etc since it must have been quite a great find to see idols unearthed in Europe and Latin America. Anyone can plant a pic and write a description on top.

upendersingh
March 18th, 2014, 02:00 AM
Yes ISI is also responsible for Devdasi and Chuachhut traditions of Hinduism propagated by Brahmins.


Look if there were Devdasi and Chuachhut like ill traditions in Hindu religion then we Hindus have made laws to prevent such abuses.

.................................................. .................................................. ..............................................
The first legal initiative to outlaw the devadasi system dates back to the 1934 Bombay Devadasi Protection Act. This act pertained to the Bombay province as it existed in theBritish Raj. The Bombay Devadasi Protection Act made dedication of women illegal, whether consensual or not. According to this act, marriage by a devadasi was to be considered lawful and valid, and the children from such wedlock were to be treated as legitimate. The Act also laid down grounds for punitive action that could be taken against any person or persons found to be involved in dedications, except the woman who was being dedicated. Those found guilty of such acts could face a year’s imprisonment, a fine, or both. The 1934 Act also provided rules, which were aimed at protecting the interests of the devadasis. Whenever there was a dispute over ownership of land involving a devadasi, the local Collector was expected to intervene.
In 1947, the year of independence, the Madras Devadasi (Prevention of Dedication) Act outlawed dedication in the southern Madras Presidency.
The devadasi system was outlawed in all of India in 1988, yet some devadasis still practice illegally.
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .....................................
The 1950 national constitution of India legally abolished the practice of untouchability and provided measures for positive discrimination in both educational institutions and public services for Dalits and other social groups who lie within the caste system. These are supplemented by official bodies such as the National Commission for Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes.
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ......................................
What more do you expect from Hindus? If you find someone involved in such offences then inform the police.

upendersingh
March 18th, 2014, 02:07 AM
South East Asia and places which were touched Indian traders and military endeavors surely have remnants and traced of Hinduism; no doubt about that. One look at Cambodia's Angkor Wat ruins and the similarity with South Indian temples is unmistakable.

I was expecting sources, scholarly articles etc since it must have been quite a great find to see idols unearthed in Europe and Latin America. Anyone can plant a pic and write a description on top.


I was expecting you to be speechless and unanswered, but you have found out something to save your skin. Ha ha ha...good. That is only way : Increase the demand. It doesn't mean I can not search what you have asked for, but it may be waste of time.

swaich
March 18th, 2014, 12:56 PM
I was expecting you to be speechless and unanswered, but you have found out something to save your skin. Ha ha ha...good. That is only way : Increase the demand. It doesn't mean I can not search what you have asked for, but it may be waste of time.

If you paste unverified pics without any supporting links of articles and research then it cannot be credible.

I did find that ToI article about excavation Vishnu idol in Russian village. I must say its interesting but there is no other article that examines the find. My guess is that if indeed such an idol is found then it may have reache Russia via traders. After all, Roman coins have been unearthed in Pondicherry.

And there's a lot of fake information floating around in the web so its only to confirm if its genuine information that I ask for sources.

swaich
March 18th, 2014, 12:59 PM
I guess Pakistan/ISI have got some agents in India. These agents have appointed their con men in cyber world. These con men find out some foolish reference about Hinduism and then try to misguide others. Some time back I have noticed many of such con men in cyber world. One of the references was very interesting. It was about the name 'Hindu'. Their point was we should not call us as 'Hindu', because this word is given to us by the Arabs. Ha ha ha.
You tell me if Hinduism is so ancient culture that there was no concept of naming a culture or mode of life, then how could it be possible that we had name (Hindu) from the very beginning? With the evolution some people started calling us Hindu, because we lived around river Sindhu. Then we too felt that if we are being called and recognized as 'Hindu' then let it be. It was part of evolution. We also have given names to others (e.g. Baudh/Buddhist to a lot of people). Tired of such con men. Thank god they don't look around now in cyber world.

How do you know these are con men sent by ISI? Because they don't identify with your views or their opinions are different and go against your beliefs? Sometimes the things we hold sacred due to religious connotations fail to live upto rational scrutiny. You just have to be open minded to understand this. Otherwise there's no room for debate.

vicky84
March 18th, 2014, 03:15 PM
Certainly Hinduism is an old religion but not the oldest. Thread title says: पृथ्वी पर केवल हिन्दू थे !!!!!!. In my opinion that is not true at all. There were other religions before origin of Hinduism.

Samarkadian
March 18th, 2014, 03:32 PM
If Brahmins have perpetrated bad practices over ages in Hindu religion, how has it survived for thousands of years? How despite all the ills, people still follow it?

If there have been bad things, there also have been good things in our religion.

I am glad that you have recognized the problems with the Hindu religion. But what are the solutions? You say that it is for the Brahmins to reform the shortcomings and not us. Who stops you/us from reforming the religion?

And if one still does not like the religion, one can convert to any other religion. I am glad that Hinduism gives this freedom unlike a few other religions which place a bar on conversions to other faith/religion.

Abhik Bhai, its unwise to look at Hinduism minus Brahiminism. Present day more than 95% of Hinduism is brahminism.

Here if you see I have been saying that without dusting the brahiminsim we won't be able to know what were we as Jats.

Samarkadian
March 18th, 2014, 03:33 PM
Did you read that article yet?



Right said Bhaisaab, it's so easy to criticise others for our own shortcomings.

Samar Bhai, only Hindu religion gives you freedom to criticise like this. If you dared to criticise Islam your situation would be like Taslima Nasreen and many fatwa would have released on your head.

Btw, chuwachut, sati pratha , baal vivah etc were far better shortcomings than stoning and executing people in public, cutting nose, ears .. and for your info Hindu religion is evolving with time and mostly these ill customs are things of past.

Samarkadian
March 18th, 2014, 04:06 PM
Right, then what prompted Indian Law or Constitution maker Dr Bhim Rao Ambedkar to leave Hinduism.?



Look if there were Devdasi and Chuachhut like ill traditions in Hindu religion then we Hindus have made laws to prevent such abuses.

.................................................. .................................................. ..............................................
The first legal initiative to outlaw the devadasi system dates back to the 1934 Bombay Devadasi Protection Act. This act pertained to the Bombay province as it existed in theBritish Raj. The Bombay Devadasi Protection Act made dedication of women illegal, whether consensual or not. According to this act, marriage by a devadasi was to be considered lawful and valid, and the children from such wedlock were to be treated as legitimate. The Act also laid down grounds for punitive action that could be taken against any person or persons found to be involved in dedications, except the woman who was being dedicated. Those found guilty of such acts could face a year’s imprisonment, a fine, or both. The 1934 Act also provided rules, which were aimed at protecting the interests of the devadasis. Whenever there was a dispute over ownership of land involving a devadasi, the local Collector was expected to intervene.
In 1947, the year of independence, the Madras Devadasi (Prevention of Dedication) Act outlawed dedication in the southern Madras Presidency.
The devadasi system was outlawed in all of India in 1988, yet some devadasis still practice illegally.
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .....................................
The 1950 national constitution of India legally abolished the practice of untouchability and provided measures for positive discrimination in both educational institutions and public services for Dalits and other social groups who lie within the caste system. These are supplemented by official bodies such as the National Commission for Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes.
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ......................................
What more do you expect from Hindus? If you find someone involved in such offences then inform the police.

AbhikRana
March 18th, 2014, 04:09 PM
I appreciate your point. To discuss further:

In today's time what do you count in that 95% of Hinduism which you attribute to the Brahmins?
In today's time if you are a Hindu, how does your right or prerogative to be a Hindu get affected (adversely) by the Brahmins?
Do Brahmins stop us (Jats) from calling ourselves Hindus?
Do they stop us (Jats) from being educated?
Do they stop us (Jats) from from choosing and practicing our vocations/professions of choice?
Do they stop us (Jats) from us from entering the temples or do Puja/prayers for us?

In today's time, as far as religion is concerned, how are Brahmins affecting us adversely?

Hindu is not just Brahmins or Jats, it includes so many other castes. Yes, I agree there were some wrong practices which were perpetrated by the Brahmins in the earlier ages like the priest class in any other religion. But there have been drastic reforms since then.

As of today, I am not sure if any other religion provides as much freedom as Hinduism.
1. Hindus (including girls) marry into other religions, they are not thrown out or killed.
2. Hindus visit churches, mosques, gurudwaras, they are not thrown out.
3. Hindus can freely convert to other religion, they are not killed. In fact even today, there are parents who do give one son in the family to Sikhism.
4. If you do not visit a temple, you are not thrown out.

With so much of elasticity and so much of freedom, we (JATS) still Constantly criticize our own faith. I am not denying that there is no need for any reform. Need for reforms would always be there with everything, but at the same time we need to take pride in what we are because if we abuse our own religion, others will. And if still someone is fed up with Hinduism, he/she can freely walk away from it and embrace a better religion.





Abhik Bhai, its unwise to look at Hinduism minus Brahiminism. Present day more than 95% of Hinduism is brahminism.

Here if you see I have been saying that without dusting the brahiminsim we won't be able to know what were we as Jats.

upendersingh
March 18th, 2014, 05:04 PM
How do you know these are con men sent by ISI? Because they don't identify with your views or their opinions are different and go against your beliefs? Sometimes the things we hold sacred due to religious connotations fail to live upto rational scrutiny. You just have to be open minded to understand this. Otherwise there's no room for debate.


They can be identified. They are stuck to their stand badly and no logics or evidences work. They just stick to their stand, because if they agree upon good logic and evidences their master will be angry and such con men will be taken as lame horses, unable to deliver.

upendersingh
March 18th, 2014, 05:11 PM
If you paste unverified pics without any supporting links of articles and research then it cannot be credible.

I did find that ToI article about excavation Vishnu idol in Russian village. I must say its interesting but there is no other article that examines the find. My guess is that if indeed such an idol is found then it may have reache Russia via traders. After all, Roman coins have been unearthed in Pondicherry.

And there's a lot of fake information floating around in the web so its only to confirm if its genuine information that I ask for sources.


I knowingly didn't paste the link, but I can.

VirJ
March 18th, 2014, 05:12 PM
What is this Hinduism which some are criticising and others are trying to defend?

upendersingh
March 18th, 2014, 05:12 PM
Right, then what prompted Indian Law or Constitution maker Dr Bhim Rao Ambedkar to leave Hinduism.?

Liberal nature of Hinduism and opportunist attitude of Dr. Bhim Rao Ambedkar prompted him to leave Hinduism. If he was a Muslim and tried to leave Islam, then might be punished badly.
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ......................
In December 2005, Nigerian pastor Zacheous Habu Bu Ngwenche was attacked for allegedly hiding a convert. In January 2006, in Turkey, Kamil Kiroglu was beaten unconscious and threatened with death if he refused to deny his Christian faith and return to Islam. In a highly public case, the Malaysian Federal Court did not let Lina Joy to change her religion status in her I/C in a 2-1 decision.
The Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain is the British branch of the Central Council of Ex-Muslims, who represent former Muslims who fear for their lives because they have renounced Islam. It was launched in Westminster on 22 June 2007. The Council protests against Islamic states that still punish Muslim apostates with death under the Sharia law. The Council is led by Maryam Namazie, who was awarded Secularist of the Year in 2005 and has faced death threats. The British Humanist Association and National Secular Society sponsored the launch of the organisation and have supported its activities since.
Ehsan Jami, co-founder of The Central Committee for Ex-Muslims in the Netherlands has received several death threats, and due to the amount of threats its members received, the Committee was dismantled.
A 2010 poll by Pew Research Center showed that 86% of Muslims in Jordan, 30% in Indonesia, 76% in Pakistan, 6% in Lebanon and 51% of Nigerian Muslims agree with death penalty for leaving Islam.
A 2007 poll by Policy Exchange revealed that 31% of British Muslims believed that leaving the Muslim religion should be punishable by death.

swaich
March 18th, 2014, 05:48 PM
They can be identified. They are stuck to their stand badly and no logics or evidences work. They just stick to their stand, because if they agree upon good logic and evidences their master will be angry and such con men will be taken as lame horses, unable to deliver.

I agree, people can be obstinate but maybe something is wrong with the evidences too? Going by what you shared, pictures and reported news links don't always cut ice.

On the topic itself - Hinduism is definitely among the oldest religions but there's no way to prove its the ancestor of all ancient religions.

upendersingh
March 18th, 2014, 06:04 PM
I agree, people can be obstinate but maybe something is wrong with the evidences too? Going by what you shared, pictures and reported news links don't always cut ice.

On the topic itself - Hinduism is definitely among the oldest religions but there's no way to prove its the ancestor of all ancient religions.


I was not interested in this thread earlier because of this reason, because if in some foreign country some traces of Hinduism or vedic culture are found then it is self killing for those countries if they let it come out openly that they have unearthed some Hindu traces as how can they themselves agree upon it they were not what they are in present?

By the way, do you rely upon this link :
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .....................................
Indonesia like much of Southeast Asia was influenced by Indian culture. From the second century, through the Indian Dynasties like the Pallava dynasty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pallava_dynasty), Gupta Empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gupta_Empire), Pala Empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pala_Empire) and Chola Empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chola_Empire) in the succeeding centuries up to the 12th century, Indian culture spread across all of Southeast, References to the Dvipantara or Yawadvipa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java), a Hindu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu) kingdom in Java (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_(island)) and Sumatra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumatra) appear in Sanskrit writings from 200 BCE. In India (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India)'s earliest epic, the Ramayana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramayana), Sugriva, the chief of Rama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rama)'s army dispatched his men to Yawadvipa, the island of Java, in search of Sita (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sita). The earliest archeological relic discovered in Indonesia is from the Ujung Kulon National Park, West Java, where an early Hindu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu) statue of Ganesha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganesha) estimated from the 1st century CE was found on the summit of Mount Raksa inPanaitan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panaitan) island.
Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Indonesia#Early_kingdoms)

swaich
March 18th, 2014, 06:44 PM
I was not interested in this thread earlier because of this reason, because if in some foreign country some traces of Hinduism or vedic culture are found then it is self killing for those countries if they let it come out openly that they have unearthed some Hindu traces as how can they themselves agree upon it they were not what they are in present?

By the way, do you rely upon this link :
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .....................................
Indonesia like much of Southeast Asia was influenced by Indian culture. From the second century, through the Indian Dynasties like the Pallava dynasty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pallava_dynasty), Gupta Empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gupta_Empire), Pala Empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pala_Empire) and Chola Empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chola_Empire) in the succeeding centuries up to the 12th century, Indian culture spread across all of Southeast, References to the Dvipantara or Yawadvipa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java), a Hindu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu) kingdom in Java (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_(island)) and Sumatra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumatra) appear in Sanskrit writings from 200 BCE. In India (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India)'s earliest epic, the Ramayana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramayana), Sugriva, the chief of Rama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rama)'s army dispatched his men to Yawadvipa, the island of Java, in search of Sita (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sita). The earliest archeological relic discovered in Indonesia is from the Ujung Kulon National Park, West Java, where an early Hindu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu) statue of Ganesha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganesha) estimated from the 1st century CE was found on the summit of Mount Raksa inPanaitan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panaitan) island.
Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Indonesia#Early_kingdoms)

You could be right that certain vested interests may not want links with Hinduism to come out. But in today's age of information any such find of ancient connections with Hinduism in Europe and the West would be a big discovery and can hardly be hidden and will be explored by historians and researchers.

I have already mentioned traces/remnants of Hinduism in SE and Central Asia are well known as these areas were in direct contact with Indian traders or military contingents. There's no doubt about them. Its just the regions beyond - Europe, Africa, LatAm, NA that are doubtful.

And about the link - Wikipedia is often thought to be unworthy but the real insights lie in the references used by the wiki article and noted underneath the page. In this case the article quotes a scholarly book - ^ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Indonesia#cite_ref-14)Mary Somers Heidhues. Southeast Asia: A Concise History. London: Thames and Hudson, 2000. Pp. 45 and 63. So it appears credible.

upendersingh
March 18th, 2014, 11:16 PM
So it appears credible.

So earlier only one source was appearing credible to you and now it's two. Well, lets move ahead.
Watch the below given image. It is true that in South Germany a lion man's image was found some decades back. Now you can say it is not written on this image that it is the image of Lord Vishnu (Narsimha). Very true. Though if it is Lord Vishnu's image in real, then too no one can prove it, but there is a history of unearthed Hindu idols so we Hindus' chances look stronger.
.................................................. .................................................. ...........................................

http://marcivermeersch.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/wordpress-lc3b6wenmensch.jpg?w=530http://archive.archaeology.org/1203/features/images/stadelhole_hohlenstein_paleolithic_lowenmensch.gif

On August 25, 1939, archaeologists working at a Paleolithic site called Stadelhole (stable cave) at Hohlenstein (hollow rock) in southern Germany, uncovered hundreds of mammoth ivory fragments. Just one week later, before they could complete their fieldwork and analyze the finds, World War II began. The team was forced to quickly fill the excavation trenches using the same soil in which they found the ivory pieces. For the next three decades, the fragments sat in storage at the nearby City Museum of Ulm, until archaeologist Joachim Hahn began an inventory. As Hahn pieced together more than 200 fragments, an extraordinary artifact dating to the Aurignacian period (more than 30,000 years ago) began to emerge. It was clearly a figure with both human and animal characteristics. However, only a small part of the head and the left ear had been found, so the type of creature it represented remained a mystery.
Between 1972 and 1975, additional fragments from excavation seasons in the 1960s, which had been stored elsewhere, and still others picked up from the cave's floor, were taken to the museum. Yet it took until 1982 for paleontologist Elizabeth Schmidt to put the new pieces together with Hahn's earlier reconstruction. Schmidt not only corrected several old errors, but also added parts of the nose and mouth that made it clear that the figurine had a cat's head. Although the artifact is often called Lowenmensch (the lion man), the word mensch is not specifically male in German, and neither the gender of the animal nor of its human parts is discernible. Five years later, to conserve the figurine, the glue that held it together was dissolved. It was then carefully put back together, revealing that only about two thirds of the original had actually been recovered.
This changed in 2008, when archaeologist Claus-Joachim Kind returned to the site at Hohlenstein. Kind removed the old backfill from the hastily concluded excavation of 1939. Over the next three years, Kind's team found several hundred more small mammoth ivory fragments. In 2009, when we found the first ones, it was a huge surprise, says Kind. But this is exactly the spot where the fragments of the figurine were originally found, so I knew right away that some belonged to the lion man. It had clearly been damaged during the earlier excavations. Only the larger pieces were collected and the smaller ones left behind, he adds. Kind was able to fit several of the new pieces to form part of the back and neck, and a computer simulation of the lion man was created, showing the placement of several more previously unattached fragments. At the end of the 2011 season, all the backfill will have been removed. There will be no more pieces left, says Kind. We hope that the lion man will finally be complete.
Link (http://archive.archaeology.org/1203/features/stadelhole_hohlenstein_paleolithic_lowenmensch.htm l)

swaich
March 18th, 2014, 11:42 PM
So earlier only one source was appearing credible to you and now it's two. Well, lets move ahead.
Watch the below given image. It is true that in South Germany a lion man's image was found some decades back. Now you can say it is not written on this image that it is the image of Lord Vishnu (Narsimha). Very true. Though if it is Lord Vishnu's image in real, then too no one can prove it, but there is a history of unearthed Hindu idols so we Hindus' chances look stronger.
.................................................. .................................................. ...........................................

http://marcivermeersch.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/wordpress-lc3b6wenmensch.jpg?w=530http://archive.archaeology.org/1203/features/images/stadelhole_hohlenstein_paleolithic_lowenmensch.gif

On August 25, 1939, archaeologists working at a Paleolithic site called Stadelhole (stable cave) at Hohlenstein (hollow rock) in southern Germany, uncovered hundreds of mammoth ivory fragments. Just one week later, before they could complete their fieldwork and analyze the finds, World War II began. The team was forced to quickly fill the excavation trenches using the same soil in which they found the ivory pieces. For the next three decades, the fragments sat in storage at the nearby City Museum of Ulm, until archaeologist Joachim Hahn began an inventory. As Hahn pieced together more than 200 fragments, an extraordinary artifact dating to the Aurignacian period (more than 30,000 years ago) began to emerge. It was clearly a figure with both human and animal characteristics. However, only a small part of the head and the left ear had been found, so the type of creature it represented remained a mystery.
Between 1972 and 1975, additional fragments from excavation seasons in the 1960s, which had been stored elsewhere, and still others picked up from the cave's floor, were taken to the museum. Yet it took until 1982 for paleontologist Elizabeth Schmidt to put the new pieces together with Hahn's earlier reconstruction. Schmidt not only corrected several old errors, but also added parts of the nose and mouth that made it clear that the figurine had a cat's head. Although the artifact is often called Lowenmensch (the lion man), the word mensch is not specifically male in German, and neither the gender of the animal nor of its human parts is discernible. Five years later, to conserve the figurine, the glue that held it together was dissolved. It was then carefully put back together, revealing that only about two thirds of the original had actually been recovered.
This changed in 2008, when archaeologist Claus-Joachim Kind returned to the site at Hohlenstein. Kind removed the old backfill from the hastily concluded excavation of 1939. Over the next three years, Kind's team found several hundred more small mammoth ivory fragments. In 2009, when we found the first ones, it was a huge surprise, says Kind. But this is exactly the spot where the fragments of the figurine were originally found, so I knew right away that some belonged to the lion man. It had clearly been damaged during the earlier excavations. Only the larger pieces were collected and the smaller ones left behind, he adds. Kind was able to fit several of the new pieces to form part of the back and neck, and a computer simulation of the lion man was created, showing the placement of several more previously unattached fragments. At the end of the 2011 season, all the backfill will have been removed. There will be no more pieces left, says Kind. We hope that the lion man will finally be complete.
Link (http://archive.archaeology.org/1203/features/stadelhole_hohlenstein_paleolithic_lowenmensch.htm l)

There was just one source and in any case as I have mentioned twice now I already knew about SE Asia's connections with Hinduisms as its well known and documented. No disputes there and neither does it prove the original topic of the thread.

Now, thanks for sharing the Lion Man. I wasn't aware if it and its certainly an extraordinary find. To imagine people creating such artwork 30k years ago is simply mind-blowing.

However, the connection with Narasimha is purely conjencture as the archaelogists haven't said so. First, we don't know if its male or female sculpture. Secondly and more importantly, there's no evidence of Hinduism having origin beyong 2500 years ago that is the early Vedic period and certainly not beyond Central Asia. I can however understand why someone who is very religiously inclined can believe that there is a connection. But logically speaking, based on facts, there is no connection here.

AbhikRana
March 19th, 2014, 03:49 PM
Good piece of information Upender ji,

There is bound to be some connection between Hinduism and other religions/faiths/civilizations/customs/traditions of the same/later era.

Hindus have since its earlier days believed in and worshiped Gods and Goddesses of nature (Wind, Sun, etc) and so have other civilizations like the Mayans (in Latin America).

We don't need a stamp of approval from the western scholars to believe in the antiquity, richness and greatness of our religion. Unlike a few others, despite all its shortcomings of the past and a few still, I am proud to be a Hindu. I fully believe that there is a possibility that our religion was the progenitor of all or many other faiths/religions of course including Sikhs, Jains and a sizeable chunk which has gone on to embrace the so-called minority religion (with the sword hanging on their heads).


So earlier only one source was appearing credible to you and now it's two. Well, lets move ahead.
Watch the below given image. It is true that in South Germany a lion man's image was found some decades back. Now you can say it is not written on this image that it is the image of Lord Vishnu (Narsimha). Very true. Though if it is Lord Vishnu's image in real, then too no one can prove it, but there is a history of unearthed Hindu idols so we Hindus' chances look stronger.
.................................................. .................................................. ...........................................

http://marcivermeersch.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/wordpress-lc3b6wenmensch.jpg?w=530http://archive.archaeology.org/1203/features/images/stadelhole_hohlenstein_paleolithic_lowenmensch.gif

On August 25, 1939, archaeologists working at a Paleolithic site called Stadelhole (stable cave) at Hohlenstein (hollow rock) in southern Germany, uncovered hundreds of mammoth ivory fragments. Just one week later, before they could complete their fieldwork and analyze the finds, World War II began. The team was forced to quickly fill the excavation trenches using the same soil in which they found the ivory pieces. For the next three decades, the fragments sat in storage at the nearby City Museum of Ulm, until archaeologist Joachim Hahn began an inventory. As Hahn pieced together more than 200 fragments, an extraordinary artifact dating to the Aurignacian period (more than 30,000 years ago) began to emerge. It was clearly a figure with both human and animal characteristics. However, only a small part of the head and the left ear had been found, so the type of creature it represented remained a mystery.
Between 1972 and 1975, additional fragments from excavation seasons in the 1960s, which had been stored elsewhere, and still others picked up from the cave's floor, were taken to the museum. Yet it took until 1982 for paleontologist Elizabeth Schmidt to put the new pieces together with Hahn's earlier reconstruction. Schmidt not only corrected several old errors, but also added parts of the nose and mouth that made it clear that the figurine had a cat's head. Although the artifact is often called Lowenmensch (the lion man), the word mensch is not specifically male in German, and neither the gender of the animal nor of its human parts is discernible. Five years later, to conserve the figurine, the glue that held it together was dissolved. It was then carefully put back together, revealing that only about two thirds of the original had actually been recovered.
This changed in 2008, when archaeologist Claus-Joachim Kind returned to the site at Hohlenstein. Kind removed the old backfill from the hastily concluded excavation of 1939. Over the next three years, Kind's team found several hundred more small mammoth ivory fragments. In 2009, when we found the first ones, it was a huge surprise, says Kind. But this is exactly the spot where the fragments of the figurine were originally found, so I knew right away that some belonged to the lion man. It had clearly been damaged during the earlier excavations. Only the larger pieces were collected and the smaller ones left behind, he adds. Kind was able to fit several of the new pieces to form part of the back and neck, and a computer simulation of the lion man was created, showing the placement of several more previously unattached fragments. At the end of the 2011 season, all the backfill will have been removed. There will be no more pieces left, says Kind. We hope that the lion man will finally be complete.
Link (http://archive.archaeology.org/1203/features/stadelhole_hohlenstein_paleolithic_lowenmensch.htm l)

DrRajpalSingh
March 19th, 2014, 04:00 PM
Since the thread relates to History section which requires authenticated data to prove or un-prove the hypotheses and conclusions, nothing like that is emerging in the thread as most of the posts are vague and based on generalised statements of the participants.

Therefore, to give time to the interested participants to prepare their fact based notes, the thread is being closed for the time being temporarily.

Inconvenience, if any, caused to anyone is regretted !