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rkumar
May 23rd, 2014, 07:45 AM
I just happened to read a news item about the auction of a ring in London. To my surprise this ring belonged to Tipu Sultan and is very unique. It has "Ram" written on it. Do we conclude that Ram was the diety of Hindus and Muslims equally during that period?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-27529905

17141

It seems Hindus and Muslims were same at least culturally before British took over India.

RK^2

DrRajpalSingh
May 23rd, 2014, 08:55 AM
I just happened to read a news item about the auction of a ring in London. To my surprise this ring belonged to Tipu Sultan and is very unique. It has "Ram" written on it. Do we conclude that Ram was the diety of Hindus and Muslims equally during that period?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-27529905

17141

It seems Hindus and Muslims were same at least culturally before British took over India.

RK^2

As regards religious policy of 18th century states, it was by and large always tolerant and no discrimination was made by the rulers on this count.

For example, Maharaja Suraj Mal got built a mosque/maqbara at the place where Shamsher Bahadur Khan, step Son of the Peshwa was killed during the siege of Kumher in 1754.

In addition, the major part of the security ring around Maharaja Suraj Mal during his last fight against the Imperial Mir Bakshi Najibuuddaula belonged to persons related to Islam as the names of the persons cut to pieces testify !

Likewise more or less all religions were treated at par in almost all the newly established regional powers that arose on the disintegration and dismemberment of the mighty Mughal Empire at the hands of the centrifugal powers of the country.

It were the British who started to extend their imperial designs by following policy of divide and rule and fanning differences of caste, creed, region and what not.

prashantacmet
May 23rd, 2014, 11:37 AM
Completely imaginative and falsified theory..one or two rare example does not build the theory right. Hindus and muslims had a wide gap throughout the history. On british arrival, hindu/muslims came closure for a while but this ballon burst completely near independence. Before British, situation was fatal .Apart from akbar (that too being very exaggerated presently), no muslim ruler had a soft corner for hindus.There might be some cultural similarity in hindus and newly converted muslims, but there was no religious harmony

Tipu sultan was a hindu hater. he butchered and forced conversion of hindus on a massive scale.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipu_Sultan

http://voiceofdharma.org/books/tipu/ch02.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Hinduism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Hindus

prashantacmet
May 23rd, 2014, 11:40 AM
I just happened to read a news item about the auction of a ring in London. To my surprise this ring belonged to Tipu Sultan and is very unique. It has "Ram" written on it. Do we conclude that Ram was the diety of Hindus and Muslims equally during that period?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-27529905

17141

It seems Hindus and Muslims were same at least culturally before British took over India.

RK^2

kisi hindu se chheni hogi tipu sultan ne....kasai tha tipu sultan....aurangzeb ki tarah hinduo ko mara aur convert kiya....aur aapko lagta hai wo Ram ko manata tha....kripya karke Tipu sultan ke baare main thoda sa padhe..maine 5-7 link diye hai upper.

prashantacmet
May 23rd, 2014, 11:45 AM
As regards religious policy of 18th century states, it was by and large always tolerant and no discrimination was made by the rulers on this count.

For example, Maharaja Suraj Mal got built a mosque/maqbara at the place where Shamsher Bahadur Khan, step Son of the Peshwa was killed during the siege of Kumher in 1754.

In addition, the major part of the security ring around Maharaja Suraj Mal during his last fight against the Imperial Mir Bakshi Najibuuddaula belonged to persons related to Islam as the names of the persons cut to pieces testify !

Likewise more or less all religions were treated at par in almost all the newly established regional powers that arose on the disintegration and dismemberment of the mighty Mughal Empire at the hands of the centrifugal powers of the country.

It were the British who started to extend their imperial designs by following policy of divide and rule and fanning differences of caste, creed, region and what not.


baat tipu sultan ki ho rahi hai...aap surajmal ka exampel de rahe ho....jatto ko dil bada hota hi hai...give some exmaple of muslim ruler...(leave akbar.......)

upendersingh
May 23rd, 2014, 01:08 PM
डॉ. राजपाल जंघु जैसे लोगों का बस चले तो मुस्लिमों को तो कुछ ना कहें, हां हिंदुओं को जरूर मुसलमान बना दें। शुकर है भारत में अभी भी अधिकतर लोग ऐसे हैं, जो मौका लगते ही भारत में इस्लाम का सूर्य अस्त कर देंगे। हाल ही में देश भर में भाजपा की भारी जीत इसका सबूत है।

DrRajpalSingh
May 23rd, 2014, 04:44 PM
डॉ. राजपाल जंघु जैसे लोगों का बस चले तो मुस्लिमों को तो कुछ ना कहें, हां हिंदुओं को जरूर मुसलमान बना दें। शुकर है भारत में अभी भी अधिकतर लोग ऐसे हैं, जो मौका लगते ही भारत में इस्लाम का सूर्य अस्त कर देंगे। हाल ही में देश भर में भाजपा की भारी जीत इसका सबूत है।

Friend,

Could you cite reason for your comments that I am trying to convert Hindus or vice versa !

Read history with open mind and you would be convinced of the multi-cultural ethos of Indian people.

The last observation regarding the victory of BJP is also not based on the facts of the electoral fight !

It was not a fight between Hindus and Muslims at all and to give it colour of communalism is a far fetched idea !

DrRajpalSingh
May 23rd, 2014, 04:59 PM
baat tipu sultan ki ho rahi hai...aap surajmal ka exampel de rahe ho....jatto ko dil bada hota hi hai...give some exmaple of muslim ruler...(leave akbar.......)

Though, at times, Aurangzeb adopted communal steps against the non-Islamic people, yet the number of Hindu nobles [Mansabdars and Jagirdars] under him was far larger than any of his five predecessors including Akbar.

DrRajpalSingh
May 23rd, 2014, 05:13 PM
Friends,

History is a two edged sword so it must be used with every possible precaution ! We can use history to strengthen the national integration and communal harmony or conversely use it otherwise, if we chose isolated incidents and occurrences from here and there.

Therefore, we have to treat history to judge for a period of time taking into consideration all the objective conditions of that age and characters, otherwise there is every chance to falter in our conclusion/judgement of the past.

The British used Indian history to spread communal divide and succeeded to an extent in their nefarious designs. They divided our history into Hindu Period, Muslim Period and the British period whereas the facts show that at no time all over India there was never Muslim rule or the British Rule as always there were present Hindu kingdoms here and there.

So this is the time to come out of the false notions of history spread by the British and read it as History of Ancient, Mediaeval and Modern India.

Thanks and regards

rsdalal
May 23rd, 2014, 06:22 PM
ताज़ा न्यूज़ है की एक जेयहूदी ने 6 करोड़ में ये रिंग खरीदी है तुरंत उसने इसे पिंगला के नयी शानदार अंगूठी बनवाई है अब नयी अंगूठी की किम्मत 1.5 लाख है

prashantacmet
May 23rd, 2014, 07:08 PM
ताज़ा न्यूज़ है की एक जेयहूदी ने 6 करोड़ में ये रिंग खरीदी है तुरंत उसने इसे पिंगला के नयी शानदार अंगूठी बनवाई है अब नयी अंगूठी की किम्मत 1.5 लाख है


azeeb paagal aadmi hai.....6 crore ki cheez 1.5 lac ki bana di....

prashantacmet
May 23rd, 2014, 07:20 PM
Though, at times, Aurangzeb adopted communal steps against the non-Islamic people, yet the number of Hindu nobles [Mansabdars and Jagirdars] under him was far larger than any of his five predecessors including Akbar.

so what??.. under biritish rules many hindus, muslims and sikh personalities enjoyed special status and they were beloved of British.. but you are blaming British to separate hindus and muslims because of their divisive politics. why?? britsih were not good?...

So if there were hindu nobles in aurangzeb court..this does not vindicate his love for Hindus and sikhs. he was a staunch islamist and did massive conversion and persecution of hindus and sikhs . Even oor great gokula, rajaram and bharatpur empire rose to the stature due to tyranny of aurangzeb, these great jats came in rescue of hinduism. Tell me any hindu king who did massive killing at the name of religion and who forced conversion of muslims in Hinduism.

haider all, tipu sultan..these were demons but this sickulars history has made them heroes. I first read about them in 7-8th standrd history book of Utter pradesh board and i was ashamed of the our education system knowing the truth after few years .


I have read history from all the angles as far as I know. Please tell me the angle to read the history so that i can understand your point of view. By the way, you are first person I have ever met who is trying to prove Aurangzeb a safe heaven for Hindus..!

rsdalal
May 23rd, 2014, 07:34 PM
azeeb paagal aadmi hai.....6 crore ki cheez 1.5 lac ki bana di....

Prashan bhai that's what I wanted to convey that no one except a fool would destroy this kind of masterpiece.
Just because this was in his possession does not prove his secular credentials specially when his actions speak otherwise.
BTW this was a made up news

dndeswal
May 23rd, 2014, 08:25 PM
आजकल सभी पश्चिमी देशों और अमेरिका आदि में एक कहावत है कि मुसलमान तब तक secular रहते हैं जब तक वे minority में हैं, एक बार उनका बहुमत होते ही वे कट्टरता पर उतर आते हैं। पुराने समय में यह बात एक आम मुसलमान की बजाय मुसलमान नवाबों और बादशाहों पर ज्यादा फिट बैठती है। आजकल ही देख लो - पड़ौसी पाकिस्तान और बंगलादेश में 1950-1955 के बीच भी हिन्दुओं की अच्छी खासी आबादी थी - आज थोड़े ही बचे हैं। वे या तो कट्टरपंथियों से डरकर अपना घर छोड़ कर भारत में आ गये या उनसे जबरदस्ती इस्लाम कबूल करवा लिया गया। तसलीमा नसरीन और सलमान रुश्दी जैसे लोग जिन्होंने इस्लाम के इस पक्ष को उजागर किया है, कट्टरपंथी उनके सिर पर तलवार लिए बैठे हैं और वे गुमनामी में, सुरक्षा के घेरे में अपना जीवन काट रहे हैं। कम्युनिस्ट इतिहासकार तो औरंगजेब जैसे कट्टर बादशाह को भी secular लिखते हैं। अकबर के बारे में तो यह लिखते हैं कि उसने जोधाबाई से रिश्ता करके हिन्दू-मुस्लिम एकता की मिशाल कायम की!

दूसरी तरफ महाराजा सूरजमल जैसे हिन्दू राजा वास्तव में secular थे। जहां उन्होंने मुगल सल्तनत को नाकों चने चबवा दिए, आम मुसलमान को तंग नहीं किया। जवाहर सिंह ने भी मथुरा की मस्जिद में नमाज बन्द करवा दी थी और वहां बाजार खुलवा दिया था, पर उसको तुड़वाया नहीं।

मराठा सेनापति सदाशिव भाऊ ने मथुरा की नबी मस्जिद को देखकर सूरजमल से कहा था - सूरजमल जी, मथुरा इतने दिन से आपके कब्जे में है, फिर इस मस्जिद को आपने कैसे छोड़ दिया ? सूरजमल ने जवाब दिया - अगर मुझे यकीन होता कि मैं सारी उम्र इस इलाके का बादशाह रहूंगा तो शायद मैं इस मस्जिद को गिरवा देता, पर क्या फायदा ? कल मुसलमान आकर हमारे मंदिरों को गिरवायें और वहीं पर मस्जिदें बनवा दें तो आपको अच्छा लगेगा? बाद में फिर भाऊ ने लाल किले के दीवाने-खास की छत को गिरवाने का हुक्म दिया था, यह सोच कर कि इस सोने को बेचकर अपने सैनिकों की तनख्वाह दे दूंगा । इस पर भी सूरजमल ने उसे मना किया, यहां तक कहा कि मेरे से पांच लाख रुपये ले लो, पर इसे मत तोड़ो, आखिर नादिरशाह ने भी इस छत को बख्श दिया था । पर भाऊ नहीं माना - जब छत का सोना तोड़ा गया तो वह मुश्किल से तीन लाख रुपये का निकला !

वैसे (भारत में) सभी मुसलमान बादशाहों ने एकाध हिन्दू वजीर या सलाहकार को अपने यहां नौकरी दी थी क्योंकि ऐसा करना उनकी मजबूरी थी क्योंकि ज्यादातर जनता हिन्दू थी और मुसलमान गिने-चुने थे। इसका मतलब यह नहीं निकाला जा सकता कि सारे मुसलमान बादशाह secular थे। जो एकाध सचमुच secular या उदार रहे होंगे (जैसे शेरशाह सूरी) उनका नाम इतिहास की किताबों से गायब कर दिया गया है।
.

agodara
May 23rd, 2014, 08:36 PM
Prashant bhai kahi nahi bikti ye.2012 me bhi list hui thi ye sale ke liye.ab bhi list ho rakhi hai chirti ke site per
in auction house ko kuch bhi mil jata hai purana india se use raja ya nawaab ki batate hai.one more diamond ring
in british mueseum is also been said that it was taken from fingre of tipu sultan.tipu sultan was a very big enemy of hindus.
in no way this ring was taken from his fingre

DrRajpalSingh
May 23rd, 2014, 09:20 PM
so what??.. under biritish rules many hindus, muslims and sikh personalities enjoyed special status and they were beloved of British.. but you are blaming British to separate hindus and muslims because of their divisive politics. why?? britsih were not good?...

So if there were hindu nobles in aurangzeb court..this does not vindicate his love for Hindus and sikhs. he was a staunch islamist and did massive conversion and persecution of hindus and sikhs ................... By the way, you are first person I have ever met who is trying to prove Aurangzeb a safe heaven for Hindus..!

Friend,

I have nowhere mentioned that Aurangzeb was ''a safe heaven for Hindus''.

In fact Aurangzeb was a power hungry ruler with imperialistic designs and went to extremes first to gain his ascendancy as emperor of India and then went all out to prove that he was better representative of Muslims than Dara who followed the policy of tolerance towards Hindus like Akbar.

He was the youngest son of Shahjahan, who removed three brothers by treachery or by use of sword to get the crown and for this act he put his father in prison who died there after several years.

When the Chief Kazi refused to read Khutba in his name so long as his father, the dethroned emperor, was alive he removed him from his post and found another agreeable person to accomplice the act.

He abolished several non Islamic taxes, traditions and conventions practised at the Imperial court {Durbar} and also banned the public celebrations of the festivals like Nauraz --an Iranian festival started by Akbar in his court, as well as Deepawali and Holi. He was very harsh towards Hindus and re-imposed Jezia on them which had earlier been removed by Akbar. He also banned reconversion of Muhammadans to other religions and also forced the war prisoners either to accept Islam or choose to die. He put a ban on the repair of existing Hindu temples and did not permit construction of new Hindu temples.

The persecution of all rebel people who challenged his authority followed to maintain his empire. This persecution was not on the basis of religion only but on the policy of maintenance of his empire.

The Muslim rulers of Bijapur and Golcunda or rebels of NWFP did not escape his royal fury. The same fate befell on the Hindus, Sikhs and others who tried to challenge his royal authority.

In his personal life he was a devoted Muslim and followed the Quran and Hadish in letter and spirit.

This was Aurangzeb Alamgir we have read : No discrimination in dealing with the people who challenged his authority as enumerated above. All in all, no rebel escaped his sceptre .

Thanks

agodara
May 23rd, 2014, 09:55 PM
here is one more link which shows how he was haters of hindus.not by british or muslim but by a french who served in his army
http://www.francoisgautier.com/tippu-sultan-francois-ripaud-hindus/

agodara
May 23rd, 2014, 11:16 PM
Vijay mallya bought sword of tipu sultan made of wootz steel in 2004 for ú175000.sword was bought from desendents of david baird.
david baird was awarded this sword for showing bravery in 1779 mysore battle.tnus we have records of sword.but for ring we dont have any reliable records

agodara
May 24th, 2014, 12:03 AM
On the 8th of December 1988, an old trunk was discovered in the attic of the house of Elaine de la Taille Tr´┐Żtinville, who died at age 91 in her 14th district flat in Paris. Eliane was a descendant of the family of Les Ripaud de Montaudevert. Amongst the manyartefacts, an old manuscript was found, handwritten by the most famous of the Montaudeverts: Fran´┐Żois Fid´┐Żle Ripaud de Montaudevert.The manuscript starts with these words in old French ´┐Żmoi Fran´┐Żois Ripaud, ester vieillot, mais je volere raconter le villain Tipoo´┐Ż: ´┐Ż I am old today, but I want to tell you the true story of Tipoo Sultan ´┐Ż´┐ŻBorn in Saffr´┐Ż, in France´┐Żs Britain County, into a middle class family, Ripaud enrolled at the age of 11 as a sailor on the ship Le Palmier. After many adventures, he settled in Mauritius where he marries and has two children. In1797, having heard about ´┐ŻLe Grand Tippu Sultan´┐Ż (the great Tippu Sultan), Ripaud sailed from Mauritius (then called L´┐ŻIsle de France) to Mangalore and requested a meeting with the Sultan, promising him ´┐Ż to raise a large force in Mauritius and put it at Tippu´┐Żs disposal ´┐Ż.Tippu, who had an early connection with the French, as he was instructed in military tactics by French officers in the employment of his father, jumped on the idea. And gave Ripaud letters of credentials.Ripaud thus arrived at Ile de France on 19 August 1798, and had a public proclamation asking for volunteers ´┐Żto join an expedition to travel to Mysore to assist Tipoo in his resistance to British encroachment in South India ´┐Ż. It must be noted that two months earlier, Napoleon invaded Egypt and dreamt of establishing a junction with India against the British. Hence the Governor of Mauritius received instructions to collaborate and Ripaudcame back to Mangalore with a shipload of French soldiers, who were welcomed like heroes.Life in the court of Tippu was a dream for our hardy adventurer. But Francois Ripaud begins to have some misgivings about the Sultan:´┐ŻIam disturbed, he writes in his diary on 14th January 1799, about Tipoo´┐Żstreatment of these most gentle souls, the Hindus. During the siege of Mangalore, Tippu´┐Żs soldiers daily exposed the heads of many innocent Brahmins within sight from the fort for Zamorin and his Hindu followers to see´┐Ż.But Ripaud casts his doubts aside, and puts up for Tippu´┐Żs benefit a demonstration of the new egalitarian French political ideals. A French paper was found in Tipu's Palace in 1799, entitled 'Proceedings of a Jacobin Club formed at Seringapatam by the French Soldiers in the Corps commanded by Francois Ripaud. The Paper listed by name 59 Frenchmen in the pay of 'Citizen Tippoo'; it described the gathering of a Primary Assembly on 5th May 1797, to elect a President, Francois Ripaud, and other officers. The 'Rights of Man' were proclaimed, and a small delegation was formally received by Tippu.After this lull, we find another entry in his diary where Francois was even more appalled of what he witnessed in Calicut ´┐ŻMost of the Hindu men and women were hanged in Calicut, first mothers were hanged with their children tied to necks of mothers. That barbarian Tipu Sultan tied the naked Christians and Hindus to the legs of elephants and made the elephants to move around till the bodies of the helpless victims were torn to pieces. Temples and churches were ordered to be burned down, desecrated and destroyed. Christian and Hindu women were forced to marry Mohammadans and similarly their men (after converting Hindu men into Islam) were forced to marry Mohammadan women. Those Christians, who refused to be honoured with Islam, were ordered to be killed by hanging immediately". It is interesting to note that this event was cohobated by the world-famous Portuguese traveller, Father. Barthoelomeo, who wrote about it in his book ´┐ŻVoyage to East Indies´┐ŻThen, there were the atrocities in Kozhikode, also seen by Ripaud, who wrote: "To show his ardent devotion and steadfast faith in Muhammaddan religion, Tipu Sultan found Kozhikode to be the most suitable place. Kozhikode was then a centre of Brahmins and had over 7000 Brahmin families living there. Over 2000 Brahmin families perished as a result of Tipu Sultan"s Islamic cruelties. He did not spare even women and children´┐Ż.Disgusted, Ripaud escaped from Srirangapatnamand went back to France, where he obtained the captainship of a fine fighting ship, the Shapho. But on 23 February 1814, while fighting anEnglish frigate, a cannon ball ripped his whole arm. He died in the evening. Even the British, his archenemies, gave 21 cannon salutes to this courageous adventurer, once, Tippu´┐Żs Great White Hope.Francois Gautier

DrRajpalSingh
May 28th, 2014, 06:35 PM
On the 8th of December 1988, an old trunk was discovered in the attic of the house of Elaine de la Taille Tr´┐Żtinville, who died at age 91 in her 14th district flat in Paris. Eliane was a descendant of the family of Les Ripaud de Montaudevert. Amongst the manyartefacts, an old manuscript was found, handwritten by the most famous of the Montaudeverts: Fran´┐Żois Fid´┐Żle Ripaud de Montaudevert.The manuscript starts with these words in old French ´┐Żmoi Fran´┐Żois Ripaud, ester vieillot, mais je volere raconter le villain Tipoo´┐Ż: ´┐Ż I am old today, but I want to tell you the true story of Tipoo Sultan ´┐Ż´┐ŻBorn in Saffr´┐Ż, in France´┐Żs Britain County, into a middle class family, Ripaud enrolled at the age of 11 as a sailor on the ship Le Palmier. After many adventures, he settled in Mauritius where he marries and has two children. In1797, having heard about ´┐ŻLe Grand Tippu Sultan´┐Ż (the great Tippu Sultan), Ripaud sailed from Mauritius (then called L´┐ŻIsle de France) to Mangalore and requested a meeting with the Sultan, promising him ´┐Ż to raise a large force in Mauritius and put it at Tippu´┐Żs disposal ´┐Ż.Tippu, who had an early connection with the French, as he was instructed in military tactics by French officers in the employment of his father, jumped on the idea. And gave Ripaud letters of credentials.Ripaud thus arrived at Ile de France on 19 August 1798, and had a public proclamation asking for volunteers ´┐Żto join an expedition to travel to Mysore to assist Tipoo in his resistance to British encroachment in South India ´┐Ż. It must be noted that two months earlier, Napoleon invaded Egypt and dreamt of establishing a junction with India against the British. Hence the Governor of Mauritius received instructions to collaborate and Ripaudcame back to Mangalore with a shipload of French soldiers, who were welcomed like heroes.Life in the court of Tippu was a dream for our hardy adventurer. But Francois Ripaud begins to have some misgivings about the Sultan:´┐ŻIam disturbed, he writes in his diary on 14th January 1799, about Tipoo´┐Żstreatment of these most gentle souls, the Hindus. During the siege of Mangalore, Tippu´┐Żs soldiers daily exposed the heads of many innocent Brahmins within sight from the fort for Zamorin and his Hindu followers to see´┐Ż.But Ripaud casts his doubts aside, and puts up for Tippu´┐Żs benefit a demonstration of the new egalitarian French political ideals. A French paper was found in Tipu's Palace in 1799, entitled 'Proceedings of a Jacobin Club formed at Seringapatam by the French Soldiers in the Corps commanded by Francois Ripaud. The Paper listed by name 59 Frenchmen in the pay of 'Citizen Tippoo'; it described the gathering of a Primary Assembly on 5th May 1797, to elect a President, Francois Ripaud, and other officers. The 'Rights of Man' were proclaimed, and a small delegation was formally received by Tippu.After this lull, we find another entry in his diary where Francois was even more appalled of what he witnessed in Calicut ´┐ŻMost of the Hindu men and women were hanged in Calicut, first mothers were hanged with their children tied to necks of mothers. That barbarian Tipu Sultan tied the naked Christians and Hindus to the legs of elephants and made the elephants to move around till the bodies of the helpless victims were torn to pieces. Temples and churches were ordered to be burned down, desecrated and destroyed. Christian and Hindu women were forced to marry Mohammadans and similarly their men (after converting Hindu men into Islam) were forced to marry Mohammadan women. Those Christians, who refused to be honoured with Islam, were ordered to be killed by hanging immediately". It is interesting to note that this event was cohobated by the world-famous Portuguese traveller, Father. Barthoelomeo, who wrote about it in his book ´┐ŻVoyage to East Indies´┐ŻThen, there were the atrocities in Kozhikode, also seen by Ripaud, who wrote: "To show his ardent devotion and steadfast faith in Muhammaddan religion, Tipu Sultan found Kozhikode to be the most suitable place. Kozhikode was then a centre of Brahmins and had over 7000 Brahmin families living there. Over 2000 Brahmin families perished as a result of Tipu Sultan"s Islamic cruelties. He did not spare even women and children´┐Ż.Disgusted, Ripaud escaped from Srirangapatnamand went back to France, where he obtained the captainship of a fine fighting ship, the Shapho. But on 23 February 1814, while fighting anEnglish frigate, a cannon ball ripped his whole arm. He died in the evening. Even the British, his archenemies, gave 21 cannon salutes to this courageous adventurer, once, Tippu´┐Żs Great White Hope.Francois Gautier

The reports of the Christian missionaries cannot be taken seriously in toto till the facts mentioned in them are not evaluated with the help of other sources.

For example, after meeting Akbar at Fatehpur-Sikari, a missionary from Portugal had reported in his journal that Akbar is soon going to convert to Christianity. But he never did !

agodara
May 28th, 2014, 09:44 PM
The reports of the Christian missionaries cannot be taken seriously in toto till the facts mentioned in them are not evaluated with the help of other sources.

For example, after meeting Akbar at Fatehpur-Sikari, a missionary from Portugal had reported in his journal that Akbar is soon going to convert to Christianity. But he never did !
Rajpal sir
francous ripaud was not a missionary he was a french soldier
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C3%A7ois_Ripaud
http://www.francoisgautier.com/tippu-sultan-francois-ripaud-hindus/
about which missionary you are talking about?

prashantacmet
May 28th, 2014, 10:24 PM
The reports of the Christian missionaries cannot be taken seriously in toto till the facts mentioned in them are not evaluated with the help of other sources.

For example, after meeting Akbar at Fatehpur-Sikari, a missionary from Portugal had reported in his journal that Akbar is soon going to convert to Christianity. But he never did !

Dear friend,

please bring out the primary sources which prove that tipu did not butcher hindus at the name of religion

agodara
May 28th, 2014, 11:35 PM
Rajpal sir
can yoy provide us just one link which shows tipu sultan was kind to hindus.

DrRajpalSingh
May 29th, 2014, 07:14 AM
Rajpal sir
can yoy provide us just one link which shows tipu sultan was kind to hindus.
Friend,

18th century Indian States which rose on the dismemberment and disintegration of the Mughal Empire whether headed by princes/rulers belonging to Hinduism or Islam, all were, by and large tolerant towards their people in religious affairs as they could not bear their internal resistance in the course of uncertain political fortunes of their newly founded States/ Kingdoms. And Tipu Sultan, it seems was no exception to this rule as he had to carry out his mission of strengthening his internal and external affairs with the help and cooperation of the majority population of Hindus under him.

I do not claim that I have studied every record on Tipu Sultan's religious policy, so the better informed on the topic are welcome to dig out archives and present assessment of his religious views and religious policy of his state.

Nonetheless know that he had taken the services of large number of the Hindus in both Civil and Military affairs of the state and that too recruited them in larger numbers than the Muslims. This shows he did not carried mass conversion of Hindus and that to using force. He had Christians also in his army. This could not have been the case if he was a 'religious bigot and fanatic.'

Yes, there are chances that he might have resorted to offer option of choosing death or conversion to Islam to the rebels against his authority as was the practice adopted by the Islamic rulers throughout the world.

If somebody shares contemporary records to show/prove that he carried out mass conversion as state policy, this would be an addition to our knowledge of eighteenth century History of India !

Thanks and regards

DrRajpalSingh
May 29th, 2014, 07:46 AM
Rajpal sir
francous ripaud was not a missionary he was a french soldier
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C3%A7ois_Ripaud
http://www.francoisgautier.com/tippu-sultan-francois-ripaud-hindus/
about which missionary you are talking about?

Friend,

Before making a critical analysis, jumping to conclusions on the basis of a minor entry is a very dangerous tendency in historical research. There may be contradictions in the narrative with which we are dealing.

After reading the narrative given in the links I am of the firm opinion, Rebels against the authority had been indiscriminately murdered by the Army of Tipu as quoted by the French soldier.

Also read the sentence about Tipu :But Ripaud casts his doubts aside, and puts up for Tippu’s benefit a demonstration of the new egalitarian French political ideals. A French paper was found in Tipu's Palace in 1799, entitled 'Proceedings of a Jacobin Club formed at Seringapatam by the French Soldiers in the Corps commanded by Francois Ripaud. The Paper listed by name 59 Frenchmen in the pay of 'Citizen Tippoo'; it described the gathering of a Primary Assembly on 5th May 1797, to elect a President, Francois Ripaud, and other officers. The 'Rights of Man' were proclaimed, and a small delegation was formally received by Tippu.

First, who knows all those killed were Brahmins and not other Hindus or pagans till we have a list of the names and their religious affiliation before us. To illustrate this point further, could you explain the following entry in the link no. 2 provided by you, why only 2000 Brahmin families were chosen to be murdered and rest 5000 Braahmins were allowed to live :

Then, there were the atrocities in Kozhikode, also seen by Ripaud, who wrote: "To show his ardent devotion and steadfast faith in Muhammaddan religion, Tipu Sultan found Kozhikode to be the most suitable place. Kozhikode was then a centre of Brahmins and had over 7000 Brahmin families living there. Over 2000 Brahmin families perished as a result of Tipu Sultan"s Islamic cruelties. He did not spare even women and children”


Therefore, it is requested to all those who are interested to study and know the religious policy of any period of history must not jump to hasty, uncritically analysed conclusions please.

Thanks and best wishes,

DrRajpalSingh
May 29th, 2014, 07:46 AM
Friends,

Please note that since I have not deeply studied Tipu Sultan's religious policy, I leave it to the ingenuity of the learned readers to make their own assessment on the issue after making critical assessment of his work and times.

Perhaps, the above posts written may be helpful to those who want to come to unbiased assessment of the man and his religious policy. Please read every available and accessible original source critically, analyse and assess and then make a hypothesis, test it with more sources and then present your thesis. That would be historical truth till refuted by some more authenticated data comes out as a part of research !

Wish good luck to everyone.

DrRajpalSingh
May 29th, 2014, 12:34 PM
Rajpal sir
can yoy provide us just one link which shows tipu sultan was kind to hindus.

Friend,

On my own I have nothing to say on this topic as I have not done research on him but now I have found some interesting links which I would like to share with you. For example on such link says:


<tbody>
Tipu inherited the secular policy of Haider who was very tolerant in religious affairs. Tipu maintained the same spirit, although he was more religious than Haider.<small> There are about thirty letters in Kannada of Tipu to Swamiji of Sringeri temple, which were found in 1916 by R.Narasimhachar, Director of Archaeology in Mysore</small>. Normally all letters of Tipu to others begin with his own name at the top, but these letters mention the name of the Swamiji at the top, with all his titles and Tipu's name is at the bottom without any title. These letters throw a flood of light on his religious policy and clearly establish the secular character of his rule.


<small>"The Quran requires you to say to people of scripture: We believe in that which has been revealed into us and revealed unto you; our God and your God is one and unto him we surrender. We hold this God-given law dear to our heart, based as it is on human dignity; reason and brotherhood of man. With reverence we have also read the Vedas of the Hindus. They proclaim their faith in universal unity and express the belief that God is one although He bears many names."
-- Tipu Sultan.</small>

</tbody>


For further information please visit, read, assess and form your own view :

http://tipusultan.net/biog2.htm


For broader understanding of the topic log :

https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Tippu_Sultan

And also try to open pages at :http://www.indianetzone.com/42/religious_administration_tipu_sultan.htm

If you want to take up full research on Tipu Sultan : The Links are available here :

https://www.google.co.in/search?q=Religious+policy+of+Tipu+sultan&rlz=1C1CHMO_en-GBIN559IN559&oq=Religious+policy+of+Tipu+sultan&aqs=chrome..69i57.37216j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8

I have nothing more to add to this topic of the thread.

Thanks and wish best reading

prashantacmet
May 29th, 2014, 01:06 PM
Friend,

Before making a critical analysis, jumping to conclusions on the basis of a minor entry is a very dangerous tendency in historical research. There may be contradictions in the narrative with which we are dealing.

After reading the narrative given in the links I am of the firm opinion, Rebels against the authority had been indiscriminately murdered by the Army of Tipu as quoted by the French soldier.

Also read the sentence about Tipu :But Ripaud casts his doubts aside, and puts up for Tippu’s benefit a demonstration of the new egalitarian French political ideals. A French paper was found in Tipu's Palace in 1799, entitled 'Proceedings of a Jacobin Club formed at Seringapatam by the French Soldiers in the Corps commanded by Francois Ripaud. The Paper listed by name 59 Frenchmen in the pay of 'Citizen Tippoo'; it described the gathering of a Primary Assembly on 5th May 1797, to elect a President, Francois Ripaud, and other officers. The 'Rights of Man' were proclaimed, and a small delegation was formally received by Tippu.

First, who knows all those killed were Brahmins and not other Hindus or pagans till we have a list of the names and their religious affiliation before us. To illustrate this point further, could you explain the following entry in the link no. 2 provided by you, why only 2000 Brahmin families were chosen to be murdered and rest 5000 Braahmins were allowed to live :

Then, there were the atrocities in Kozhikode, also seen by Ripaud, who wrote: "To show his ardent devotion and steadfast faith in Muhammaddan religion, Tipu Sultan found Kozhikode to be the most suitable place. Kozhikode was then a centre of Brahmins and had over 7000 Brahmin families living there. Over 2000 Brahmin families perished as a result of Tipu Sultan"s Islamic cruelties. He did not spare even women and children”


Therefore, it is requested to all those who are interested to study and know the religious policy of any period of history must not jump to hasty, uncritically analysed conclusions please.

Thanks and best wishes,

Ok rajpal ji. I will take a sigh of relief and will maintain patience until you come on a conclusion on Tipu sultan's religious tolerance. How much time it can take?

below is a quote from "A Voyage to the East Indies" by Fra Barthoelomeo, a renowned Portuguese traveller and historian, who was present in Tipu's war zone in early 1790:

"First a corps of 30,000 barbarians who butchered everybody on the way ... followed by the field gun unit under the French commander, M. Lally. Tipu was riding on an elephant behind which another army of 30,000 soldiers followed. Most of the men and women were hanged in Calicut, first mothers were hanged with their children tied to necks of mothers. That barbarian Tipu Sultan tied the naked Christian and Hindus to the legs of elephants and made the elephants to move around till the bodies of the helpless victims were torn to pieces. Temples and churches were ordered to be burned down, desecrated, and destroyed. ... Those Christians who refused to be honoured with Islam were ordered to be killed by hanging immediately. These atrocities were told to me by the victims of Tipu Sultan who escaped from the clutches of his army and reached Varapphuza, which is the centre of Carmichael Christian Mission. I myself helped many victims to cross the Varapphuza river by boats."

DrRajpalSingh
May 29th, 2014, 05:19 PM
Ok rajpal ji. I will take a sigh of relief and will maintain patience until you come on a conclusion on Tipu sultan's religious tolerance. How much time it can take?

......................"

Thanks Friend.

The narrative of 'these atrocities were told' to the author ' by the victims of Tipu Sultan' and the Historian /author does not claim to be an eye witness. Now to analyse the narrative and their testimony one has to find out support or negation to it by raising several questions like: were the informers real victims or pretenders. If real how they managed to escape ''the 30,000 barbarians who butchered everybody on the way'' !! What was their purpose/motive to reach to the historian, who sent them there and so on.

This is the methodology of research in history.

But kindly remember I am neither supporting the narrative nor rejecting it because I have not studied the problem in-depth, so the issue remains inclusive and open for further investigation.

As stated earlier, I have nothing more to add what I have stated in the above quoted posts. To form a comprehensive assessment of the religious policy of Tipu Sultan, there is vastly scattered sources of information. But due to my pre-occupation in other engagements, it is not possible for me to carry out full length research, so excuse me please.

You are free to investigate deeper and share your views after reasonably deep investigations, if you like, please.

Thanks and regards,

agodara
May 29th, 2014, 11:01 PM
even peoples filed pitions against telecast of serial tipu sultan.
Petitions were filed in the*Supreme Court of India*against the telecast of this drama. The petitioners, Ravi Varma, et al., argued that it was not based on the real life and deeds of*Tipu Sultan.[10]*After hearing the arguments, the Supreme Court gave a judgment that the drama could be telecast but that a notice has to be displayed along with each episode stating:*"No claim is made for the accuracy or authenticity of any episode being depicted in the serial. This serial is a fiction and has nothing to do either with the life or rule of Tipu Sultan. The serial is a dramatised presentation of Bhagwan Gidwani's novel."[11]
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sword_of_Tipu_Sultan
http://voiceofdharma.com/books/tipu/ch11.htm
read your self and decide

pankajpotaliya
May 31st, 2014, 09:23 AM
now this is hilarious.
the way you are questioning the authenticity of the historian's work is irresponsible......as if you are making statement under frustration.its normal for a historians to quote the victims and and we don't expect a historian to himself go in a war torn or aggressive place to eyewitness everything himself .
the most part of the hitler's concentration camps stories are narrated by the victims......and they are the most valuable asset....it would be foolish to question that how a few victim survived the massive nazi force and ran away.
by the way have you checked the authenticity of the letters by tipu to swamiji. do you know the intention of tipu behind those letters those may be to misguide the historians.
each and every post you mention that you have not studied the problem in depth and yet you make mockery of the historians quote by someone
it may be very much possible that you are right and tipu was hindu tolerant but the way you toss away others view in pure arrogance and unrespectfull manner keeps away some of the serious debaters away from posting.
hope you will consider a through introspection and act accordingly as there is always a possibility to improve
thanks and regards,

Thanks Friend.

The narrative of 'these atrocities were told' to the author ' by the victims of Tipu Sultan' and the Historian /author does not claim to be an eye witness. Now to analyse the narrative and their testimony one has to find out support or negation to it by raising several questions like: were the informers real victims or pretenders. If real how they managed to escape ''the 30,000 barbarians who butchered everybody on the way'' !! What was their purpose/motive to reach to the historian, who sent them there and so on.

This is the methodology of research in history.

But kindly remember I am neither supporting the narrative nor rejecting it because I have not studied the problem in-depth, so the issue remains inclusive and open for further investigation.

As stated earlier, I have nothing more to add what I have stated in the above quoted posts. To form a comprehensive assessment of the religious policy of Tipu Sultan, there is vastly scattered sources of information. But due to my pre-occupation in other engagements, it is not possible for me to carry out full length research, so excuse me please.

You are free to investigate deeper and share your views after reasonably deep investigations, if you like, please.

Thanks and regards,

pankajpotaliya
May 31st, 2014, 10:14 AM
Secularisation of Tippu's image is a dangerous game.Trying to portray him as a 'great national hero'is a shameful attempt.
He was a master Jihadi who killed thousands of innocent Hindus.
He was a barbarian.
On jan19,1790 Tippu sent a letter to Budruz Zuman Khan,in which he wrote:"Dont you know I have achieved a great victory recently in Malabar and over four lakh Hindus were converted to Islam? Iam determined to march against that cursed 'Raman nair'(Rama varma Rajah of Travancore).Since Iam overjoyed at the prospect of converting him and his subject to Islam"
In a letter sent to Adbul Kadir (1788) he wrote: "Over 12000 Hindus were honoured with Islam.There were many Namboodiris amoung them.This achievement should be widly publicised amoung the Hindus.There the local Hindus should be brought before you and then converted to Islam.No Namboodiri should be spared."
In the letter sent to Syed Abdul Dulai on jan 18,1790 he wrote:" With the grace of prophet mohammed and Allah,all most all Hindus in Calicut are converted to Islam.Only a few are still not converted on the boarders of Cochin state,Iam determined to convert them also very soon.I consider this as a JIHAD to achieve that object."
And some Hindus are trying to portray him as a secular hero !!
Shameful......

vishu1708
June 4th, 2015, 11:59 AM
The reports of the Christian missionaries cannot be taken seriously in toto till the facts mentioned in them are not evaluated with the help of other sources.

For example, after meeting Akbar at Fatehpur-Sikari, a missionary from Portugal had reported in his journal that Akbar is soon going to convert to Christianity. But he never did !
Rethink it. Christian missionaries are one of the biggest enemies of hindus. They would gladly invent stories to victimise christians. But why is he mentioning the suffering of hindus, and that too, the clergy. Clearly the situation must have been really bad for the hindus, otherwise why would a christian missionary to victamise a 'heathe'/'devil worshipping' hindu, who he considers his arch enemy?

vishu1708
June 4th, 2015, 12:36 PM
Secularisation of Tippu's image is a dangerous game.Trying to portray him as a 'great national hero'is a shameful attempt.
He was a master Jihadi who killed thousands of innocent Hindus.
He was a barbarian.
On jan19,1790 Tippu sent a letter to Budruz Zuman Khan,in which he wrote:"Dont you know I have achieved a great victory recently in Malabar and over four lakh Hindus were converted to Islam? Iam determined to march against that cursed 'Raman nair'(Rama varma Rajah of Travancore).Since Iam overjoyed at the prospect of converting him and his subject to Islam"
In a letter sent to Adbul Kadir (1788) he wrote: "Over 12000 Hindus were honoured with Islam.There were many Namboodiris amoung them.This achievement should be widly publicised amoung the Hindus.There the local Hindus should be brought before you and then converted to Islam.No Namboodiri should be spared."
In the letter sent to Syed Abdul Dulai on jan 18,1790 he wrote:" With the grace of prophet mohammed and Allah,all most all Hindus in Calicut are converted to Islam.Only a few are still not converted on the boarders of Cochin state,Iam determined to convert them also very soon.I consider this as a JIHAD to achieve that object."
And some Hindus are trying to portray him as a secular hero !!
Shameful......
Wow! Thanks for the facts!
You know, I don't hate Tipu. He was merely following his religion. Quran, Al Taubah verse 5: After the forbidden months have passed, kill the idolators wherever you find them and take them prisoners, and beleagure them and lie in wait for them in every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe prayer and pay the Zakat, then leave their way free. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, merciful.'
I don't hate tipu sultan and muslims, its the commies, muslim appologists and lefties I hate.
When muslims shout ' our ancisters butchered yours like cattle and raped their womenfolk', these commie historians shout, 'dont listen to them, arival of Islam was the best thing to India. They made taj Mahal and brought rose plant. They are the best. They loved hindus.'
When some muslims boast 'how we killed hindus' and site evidance in persian chronicals, these people again shout 'those are false claims and muslims and hindus lived like friends before brits.'
When muslims themselves make threats 'to convert India to Islam' or 'butcher all hindus', these appologists come out again and start preaching about 'Evil hindutva', 'RSS agenda' and 'Modi the terrorist' and how innocent muslims are killed by 'evil hindus' and how we should make peace with these people who wanna kill us.
When Muslims say they are gonna kill us and we are their enemy, these people say ' No, he is lying, muslims are our brothers.'

DrRajpalSingh
June 5th, 2015, 10:45 AM
Wow! Thanks for the facts!
You know, I don't hate Tipu. He was merely following his religion. Quran, Al Taubah verse 5: After the forbidden months have passed, kill the idolators wherever you find them and take them prisoners, and beleagure them and lie in wait for them in every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe prayer and pay the Zakat, then leave their way free. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, merciful.'
I don't hate tipu sultan and muslims, its the commies, muslim appologists and lefties I hate.
When muslims shout ' our ancisters butchered yours like cattle and raped their womenfolk', these commie historians shout, 'dont listen to them, arival of Islam was the best thing to India. They made taj Mahal and brought rose plant. They are the best. They loved hindus.'
When some muslims boast 'how we killed hindus' and site evidance in persian chronicals, these people again shout 'those are false claims and muslims and hindus lived like friends before brits.'
When muslims themselves make threats 'to convert India to Islam' or 'butcher all hindus', these appologists come out again and start preaching about 'Evil hindutva', 'RSS agenda' and 'Modi the terrorist' and how innocent muslims are killed by 'evil hindus' and how we should make peace with these people who wanna kill us.
When Muslims say they are gonna kill us and we are their enemy, these people say ' No, he is lying, muslims are our brothers.'


Tipu Sultan is an historical figure and you have every right to discuss, appraise and comment on him and his actions. But do not prove right the actions of a group of politicians in the guise of undoing the historic wrongs, if any, of the past.

Be merciful and spare the Jatland site for spreading hatredness among people.

[Refer to your this sentence --I don't hate tipu sultan and muslims, its the commies, muslim appologists and lefties I hate. ] --

vishu1708
June 5th, 2015, 12:19 PM
Tipu Sultan is an historical figure and you have every right to discuss, appraise and comment on him and his actions. But do not prove right the actions of a group of politicians in the guise of undoing the historic wrongs, if any, of the past.

Be merciful and spare the Jatland site for spreading hatredness among people.

[Refer to your this sentence --I don't hate tipu sultan and muslims, its the commies, muslim appologists and lefties I hate. ] --
Is that in referance with perhaps RSS(guess).
I am not doing that. I am simply against teachings which show brutal, barbarian Invaders/Tyrants like Tipu Sultan etc. as 'Patroits', 'Paragon of Virtue', 'Reformer' etc.
I am also against people who keep on repeating muslims are seculars, all the while muslims themselves shout that they are anti secularists.

DrRajpalSingh
June 5th, 2015, 04:11 PM
History is two-edged sword, so use it carefully to prove your point please.

What Tipu -good or bad - did cannot be undone now.

Neither his acts of omissions or commissions can be used to justify one's own extremely prejudiced views.