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maddhan1979
November 5th, 2016, 07:08 AM
India has been dominated by feudal wars since ages and it has had its impact on public in general.

maddhan1979
November 8th, 2016, 06:20 PM
History as India knows or is taught nationalistic, socioreligious thought process, etc., could never have been true as there were more than 500 kingdoms that made this country.

History was more or less passed verbally through many generations due to the real demographics and open borders of India. Written history was more or less destroyed due to wars, different religions, king and religious centric view of the history, etc.

This was one of the main reason as to why words like "Yadu" (Yadu being personification of tribal history) (root word being Yad(memory)) of various tribes/people, etc.

Weather these were native tribes/Out of Indian subcontinent tribes, remains a part of ancient history. "Yad", in this context does not represent a written history, rather is a example of verbal historical record.

Indian subcontinent still survives on the same mental thought process.

Where everyday resident of the country becomes victim of these thought processes.

maddhan1979
November 8th, 2016, 06:22 PM
History as India knows could never have been true as there were more than 500 kingdoms that made this country.

History was more or less passed verbally through many generations due to the real demographics of India. Written history was more or less destroyed due to wars, different religions, king centric view of the history, etc.

This was one of the main reason as to why words like "Yadu" (Yadu being personification tribal history) (root word being Yad(memory)) of various tribes/people, etc.

Weather these were native tribes/Out of Indian subcontinent tribes, remains a part of ancient history. "Yad", in this context does not represent a written history, rather is a example of verbal historical record.


This kind of knowledge transfer left a gap in real archaeologically discovered history. Religion played a negative role in personifying tribal identities creating gods and demi gods.

maddhan1979
November 11th, 2016, 07:09 AM
Combination of controlling inflow and outflow of people using religion and ancient forts can be seen in spread of forts+religion influence, etc., in India. In northwest of India, the routes were through Punjab, Rajasthan and the Himalayan routes.

Punjab could have been a battle ground for long time as there were many rivers in this region, that would have facilitated local armies to manage war situations, Rajasthan was too dry(without water) for any big army to move(because in ancient times, if a big army met with a war in a place like Rajasthan, it would have been disaster for a foreign army), this fortification of forts can still be see in the forts of Rajasthan, where outside armies would face problems relating with everday upkeeping of the army. Then there is fort called Aamer(a+mer/mir) :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amer_Fort

Which again shows a trend, where forts were being built in this region to keep outside armies and migrations away using these regions(Migrations from West of Rajasthan migrations from north of present day India, etc.). Above Rajasthan came Punjab, which again in ancient times would have had marshes and lot of river streams, so Punjab was an easy ground for local Armies(people living in that region at any given time period) to control outflow and inflow of population. Both these regions also had high influence of religious forces and religious thought process as well. Himalayan ranges and passes in Himalaya were no different, only difference being, it was difficult for religious forces to fortify Himalayan ranges, but again Himalayas were full of thieves, decoits and looters and this is proved by the fact that lot of defensive fighting techniques trace their origins to people passing through Himalayan ranges coming from China and other parts connecting Himalaya. These boundaries would have been good enough to provide fodder to local religious thought processes and feudal mindset. Religious forces time and again made sure that these forces maintained their identities, which is evident till now. Armies were mostly in the form of poor people or groups of foreign migrants into the country. These groups were hardy people because they were travelling long distances in ancient times which meant that these groups were physically fighting their onward journey, these groups were also most desirable by religious forces and fort forces as these groups were their continuous source of new commerce and supply to army. These migrating groups included people fleeing wars, famines, people moving to better places, so on. This also included migrants in form of major migrations as Scythian invasions, etc.

maddhan1979
November 11th, 2016, 11:22 AM
Combination of controlling inflow and outflow of people using religion and ancient forts can be seen in spread of forts+religion influence, etc., in India. While most of the invading armies/migrating people, etc., would have used routes without trouble. In northwest of India, the routes were through Punjab, Rajasthan and the Himalayan routes.

Punjab could have been a battle ground for long time as there were many rivers in this region, that would have facilitated local armies to manage war situations, Rajasthan was too dry(without water) for any big army to move(because in ancient times, if a big army met with a war in a place like Rajasthan, it would have been disaster for a foreign army), this fortification of forts can still be see in the forts of Rajasthan, where outside armies would face problems relating with everday upkeeping of the army. Then there is fort called Aamer(a+mer/mir) :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amer_Fort

Which again shows a trend, where forts were being built in this region to keep outside armies and migrations away using this region. Above Rajasthan came Punjab, which again in ancient times would have had marshes and lot of river streams, so Punjab was an easy ground for local Armies(people living in that region at any given time period) to control outflow and inflow of population. Both these regions also had high influence of religious forces and religious thought process as well. Himalayan ranges and passes in Himalaya were no different, only difference being, it was difficult of religious forces to fortify Himalayan ranges but again Himalayas were full of thieves, decoits and looters and this is proved by the fact that lot of defensive fighting techniques trace their origins to people passing through Himalayan ranges coming from China and other parts connecting Himalaya. These boundaries would have been good enough to provide fodder to local religious thought processes and feudal mindset. Religious forces time and again made sure that these forces maintained their identities, which is evident. Armies were mostly in the form of poor people or groups of foreign migrants into the country. These groups were hardy people because they were travelling long distances in ancient times which meant that these groups were physically fighting their onward journey, these groups were also most desirable by religious forces and fort forces as these groups were their continuous source of new commerce and supply to army. These migrating groups included people fleeing wars, famines, people moving to better places, so on.

All these areas had a tarbulant ancient past as they were the best region for ancient wars. This can be seen in the lives of the people of of these regions strong moving dances , loud music, colorful clothes tells of a society/people who were living for today and never knew what will the next day bring them. This unpredictability was also due to continuous wars throughout ages or flooding of rivers, etc. While Rivers provided safe refuge and defense in times of continuous wars the same river would have been a problem during floods in ancient times. In ancient times in adverse situations people living in such situations were the best fodder for religious thought process.

maddhan1979
November 12th, 2016, 04:12 PM
Combination of controlling inflow and outflow of people using religion and ancient forts can be seen in spread of forts+religion influence, etc., in India. While most of the invading armies/migrating people, etc., would have used routes without trouble. In northwest of India, the routes were through Punjab, Rajasthan and the Himalayan routes.

Punjab could have been a battle ground for long time as there were many rivers in this region, that would have facilitated local armies to manage war situations, Rajasthan was too dry(without water) for any big army to move(because in ancient times, if a big army met with a war in a place like Rajasthan, it would have been disaster for a foreign army), this fortification of forts can still be see in the forts of Rajasthan, where outside armies would face problems relating with everday upkeeping of the army. Then there is fort called Aamer(a+mer/mir) :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amer_Fort

Which again shows a trend, where forts were being built in this region to keep outside armies and migrations away using this region. Above Rajasthan came Punjab, which again in ancient times would have had marshes and lot of river streams, so Punjab was an easy ground for local Armies(people living in that region at any given time period) to control outflow and inflow of population. Both these regions also had high influence of religious forces and religious thought process as well. Himalayan ranges and passes in Himalaya were no different, only difference being, it was difficult for religious forces to fortify Himalayan ranges, but again Himalayas were full of thieves, decoits and looters and this is proved by the fact that lot of defensive fighting techniques trace their origins to people passing through Himalayan ranges coming from China and other parts connecting Himalaya. These boundaries would have been good enough to provide fodder to local religious thought processes and feudal mindset. Religious forces time and again made sure that these forces maintained their identities, which is evident till now. Armies were mostly in the form of poor people or groups of foreign migrants into the country. These groups were hardy people because they were travelling long distances in ancient times which meant that these groups were physically fighting their onward journey, these groups were also most desirable by religious forces and fort forces as these groups were their continuous source of new commerce and supply to army. These migrating groups included people fleeing wars, famines, people moving to better places, so on.

Words like "Barmer", might give a glimpse. The word seems to be combination of two words "Bar+Mer",

in spoken form it seems to be "Bar": flood, "Mer/Meer/Mir", it could literally mean flood of people from "Meer" civilization.

The spoken form of the word comes first.

maddhan1979
November 23rd, 2016, 05:21 PM
This kind of knowledge transfer left a gap in real archaeologically discovered history. Religion played a negative role in personifying tribal identities creating gods and demi gods.

and it was always in the interest in the religion to make the King "the supreme leader", one with the "Sun", who all should follow.

maddhan1979
November 23rd, 2016, 07:42 PM
and it was always in the interest in the religion to make the King "the supreme leader", one with the "Sun", who all should follow.

This was more or less prevalent in underdeveloped economies, the case of developed or western economies have been bit different.

maddhan1979
December 3rd, 2016, 09:46 AM
Feudal wars also meant that when the wars were faught, lot of people lost their meaning of identity. Wars needed soldiers and in such situations in ancient times soldiers came from all walks of life.

maddhan1979
December 3rd, 2016, 10:21 AM
and it was always in the interest in the religion to make the King "the supreme leader", one with the "Sun", who all should follow.


In ancient context this could again have been a case of pushing the people who were from out of Indian subcontinent i.e. from the Mir/Meer culture into agriculture and a trade of being a "Gaupal".

maddhan1979
December 14th, 2016, 07:18 PM
While the warring clans were busy claiming territories it became easy for the religious thought process to proceed its interests. This could be one of the reasons as to why Indian mentality even after many years of so called independence has not been able to come out of its religious mindset. These warring clans were also easy means for religious thought process to form new identities from outsiders and form new religious concepts. It seems wars do lead to formation of new religious identities and increases the religious thought process.

maddhan1979
January 31st, 2017, 05:31 PM
Fuedal wars depended on religion and religion itself depended on feudal system for its existence. So at certain point of time religion started propagating itself and started building boundaries in form of forts and feudal alliances. Coming of new religion and people from west and north of Indian subcontinent was a threat in itself, plenty of wars with the new comers ensured there were lot of anath and females left of the new comers. People who came from the north and west were mostly of monotheistic origin so at certain point of time in Indian religion history it must have become important for local religion to assert itself which can be seen by the creation of their own "Dev" or "Ya to dev hai", such identities could have been linked to worship of multiple gods which was necessary for the existence of local religion and spread of feudal system. Such identities could have been promoted to form godly identity by local religion and thought process. Therefore at certain point of time legality and illegality must have come under the rule of religion.

maddhan1979
January 31st, 2017, 05:32 PM
Fuedal wars depended on religion and religion itself depended on feudal system for its existence. So at certain point of time religion started propagating itself and started building boundaries in form of forts and feudal alliances. Coming of new religion and people from west and north of Indian subcontinent was a threat in itself, plenty of wars with the new comers ensured there were lot of aanath and females left of the new comers. People who came from the north and west were mostly of monoethist origin so at certain point of time in Indian religion history it must have become important for local religion to assert itself which can be seen by the creation of their own "Dev" or "Ya to dev hai", such identities must have been linked to worship of multiple gods which was necessary for the existence of local religion and spread of feudal system. Such identities must have been promoted to form godly identity to support local religion and thought process. Therefore at certain point of time legality and illegality must have come under the rule of religion.

Therefore it is possible that creation and origin of "Dev", "Deb", is of religious origin rather than foreign origin.

maddhan1979
February 1st, 2017, 03:41 PM
Fuedal wars depended on religion and religion itself depended on feudal system for its existence. So at certain point of time religion started propagating itself and started building boundaries in form of forts and feudal alliances. Coming of new religion and people from west and north of Indian subcontinent was a threat in itself, plenty of wars with the new comers ensured there were lot of aanath and females left of the new comers. People who came from the north and west were mostly of monoethist origin so at certain point of time in Indian religion history it must have become important for local religion to assert itself which can be seen by the creation of their own "Dev" or "Ya to dev hai", such identities must have been linked to worship of multiple gods which was necessary for the existence of local religion and spread of feudal system. Such identities must have been promoted to form godly identity to support local religion and thought process. Therefore at certain point of time legality and illegality must have come under the rule of religion.

Religion practices can of different types, practices followed by people moving from one place to another are different from people following religious practices living in a certain defined area. People who move from place to place usually have gods in verbal tradition and not in statue tradition. People living in a defined space usually have gods in statue tradition or depiction. Statue tradition or depiction starts creating godly figures and images which influence people and followers. Such religions also practice creation of demigods in form of Humans or " declaring a Dev", which benefit the religion. Faces, colour, etc. are often used by statue traditions to create demigods in human form to increase their influence. Religions which rely on statue tradition often artificially create humans to depict as "dev". Such humans often have local roots rather of outside origin.

maddhan1979
February 2nd, 2017, 07:18 AM
Religion practices can of different types practices followed by people moving from one place to another are different from people following religious practices living in a certain defined area. People who move from place to place usually have gods in verbal tradition and not in statue tradition. People living in a defined space usually have gods in statue tradition or depiction. Statue tradition or depiction starts creating godly figures and images which influence people and followers. Such religions also practice creation of demigods in form of Humans or "Dev", which benefit the religion. Faces, colour, etc. are often used by statue traditions to create demigods in human form to increase their influence.

Often such "Demigods" are of religious origin as words and their definition like "Deb", "Dev" are of religious origin. David and Dev seem to be words of different origin.

maddhan1979
February 2nd, 2017, 09:43 PM
Fuedal wars depended on religion and religion itself depended on feudal system for its existence. So at certain point of time religion started propagating itself and started building boundaries in form of forts and feudal alliances. Coming of new religion and people from west and north of Indian subcontinent was a threat in itself, plenty of wars with the new comers ensured there were lot of aanath and females left of the new comers. People who came from the north and west were mostly of monotheistic origin so at certain point of time in Indian religion history it must have become important for local religion to assert itself which can be seen by the creation of their own "Dev" or "Ya to dev hai", such identities could have been linked to worship of multiple gods which was necessary for the existence of local religion and spread of feudal system. Such identities could have been promoted to form godly identity by local religion and thought process. Therefore at certain point of time legality and illegality must have come under the rule of religion.


This monotheistic tribal origin predated Islam.

maddhan1979
February 3rd, 2017, 05:45 PM
Buildup of forts in Rajasthan and the continuation of religious tradition in Punjab seems to tell more of a religious history. Islam arrived in India around 7th century AD, so prominent religions of the land might have started to create boundaries to safeguard themselves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_India

It is also interesting to see that lot of Buddhist monasteries were build in high rise cliffs in ancient Tibet, were they due to religious wars or feudal wars?

maddhan1979
February 4th, 2017, 02:28 PM
Most of the Buddhist monasteries were built in pre Islamic time. Why people of a certain religion had to build monasteries so high in the mountain cliffs?

DrRajpalSingh
February 7th, 2017, 10:59 AM
This was more or less prevalent in underdeveloped economies, the case of developed or western economies have been bit different.
Good thread title but as usual stray thoughts presentation coverage killed the topic.
Kindly enlighten us how one could corelate modern lookdeveloped economy of Western countries n feaudal wars.
Thanks

maddhan1979
February 10th, 2017, 07:29 AM
In ancient context this could again have been a case of pushing the people who were from out of Indian subcontinent i.e. from the Mir/Meer culture into agriculture and a trade of being a "Gaupal".


While the words like "Hal", a farmer's tool and meaning "solution", in Hindi mathematics, do not seem to be root words of IndoEuropean origin, words like "Meer/Mir" have a root word origin in IndoEuropean languages. It is probable that forts in ancient India were small and not able to accommodate people coming from outside and then it is also probable that the word as "Hal", might be of very late origins.

maddhan1979
February 11th, 2017, 08:58 AM
Combination of controlling inflow and outflow of people using religion and ancient forts can be seen in spread of forts+religion influence, etc., in India. In northwest of India, the routes were through Punjab, Rajasthan and the Himalayan routes.

Punjab could have been a battle ground for long time as there were many rivers in this region, that would have facilitated local armies to manage war situations, Rajasthan was too dry(without water) for any big army to move(because in ancient times, if a big army met with a war in a place like Rajasthan, it would have been disaster for a foreign army), this fortification of forts can still be see in the forts of Rajasthan, where outside armies would face problems relating with everday upkeeping of the army. Then there is fort called Aamer(a+mer/mir) :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amer_Fort

Which again shows a trend, where forts were being built in this region to keep outside armies and migrations away using these regions(Migrations from West of Rajasthan migrations from north of present day India, etc.). Above Rajasthan came Punjab, which again in ancient times would have had marshes and lot of river streams, so Punjab was an easy ground for local Armies(people living in that region at any given time period) to control outflow and inflow of population. Both these regions also had high influence of religious forces and religious thought process as well. Himalayan ranges and passes in Himalaya were no different, only difference being, it was difficult for religious forces to fortify Himalayan ranges, but again Himalayas were full of thieves, decoits and looters and this is proved by the fact that lot of defensive fighting techniques trace their origins to people passing through Himalayan ranges coming from China and other parts connecting Himalaya. These boundaries would have been good enough to provide fodder to local religious thought processes and feudal mindset. Religious forces time and again made sure that these forces maintained their identities, which is evident till now. Armies were mostly in the form of poor people or groups of foreign migrants into the country. These groups were hardy people because they were travelling long distances in ancient times which meant that these groups were physically fighting their onward journey, these groups were also most desirable by religious forces and fort forces as these groups were their continuous source of new commerce and supply to army. These migrating groups included people fleeing wars, famines, people moving to better places, so on. This also included migrants in form of major migrations as Scythian invasions, etc.

It seems forts of many places in northwest of India, were not built to welcome or incorporate outsiders coming to Indian subcontinent, as often these forts had only that much of space that these forts could encompass, local kings, priests and local traders.
Tribes which can trace their ancestry to Hunnic tribes, central Asian origin, etc., such as Talhan, Nain(there is place called NainiTal, etc.,) and northwest of Indian subcontinent were not welcomed as often they were not even allowed small things such as water.

maddhan1979
August 1st, 2017, 06:23 PM
Did these tribe come from north or west of Indian subcontinent. It seems a major inflow of tribes happened from north. As these unknown people from lost armies, defeated armies, people fleeing wars, people fleeing persecution, armies that came as invaders, migratory people who came as settlers, people who were brought as slaves, etc., would/could have an unknown origin in local context and one word that could have identified these people could have been "Raj", "Secret", in the same context word "Rajasthan", seems to be made up of three different words "Raj" + "a"+"sthan/Place in English" (again "a" seems to be negation i.e. a place which is not of people of unknown origins), it is possible that there were large migration and movement from northern routes of present day India. Again ancient India Punjab would have had lot of rivers and marshes, so not favorable for armies or people to move through, Rajasthan was dry so not favorable place for armies to move through with lot of animals and other ancient war equipment.

So, it seems northern passes were the best routes from tribes/people/armies to move through as in ancient times high passes was an advantage to incoming people as compared to local people/already living, living in interior of Indian subcontinent.