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ndahiya
February 13th, 2003, 08:15 AM
I have moved it to a new thread.

Nitin

--


Urmila Duhan (Feb 12, 2003 04:20 p.m.):
I know a member who contributed last year felt neglected when their name was not mentioned in the contributors list. It is a bad practice to acknowledge selective members only. I am also wondering why did the cost of maintaining the site shoot up from $100 in Aug 2002 to $ 200 in January 2003?!!!
What does "maintaining the site mean" by the way? What is the site going to do with the money received in excess of that required for maintaining the site?
I am somewhat upset over the introduction of
"donation box" on the site. Please don't beg without any rhime or reason. Instead, whenever any money is required for a "specific" purpose- it should be mentioned clearly and only that much amount should be collected and nothing beyond it. The site can post the addresses of NGO/Jat dharamshala's in Jat areas, to which donation can be made. Money matters must be made transparent.

ndahiya
February 13th, 2003, 08:39 AM
Dear Urmila
We pride ourself in our openness abt the funding on the site, and am disappointed by your post. Indeed, your attempt to ascribe greed to my intent is distressing, to say the least. Especially as it is based on significant misinformation.

Let me give you the correct info.

We moved to the new hosting service (http://www.pronichost.com) in May 02. The hosting charges are abt USD 15.95 per month. We have the plus package. If you like you can call up the service provider and check. Add to that the domain charges (we have 2 registered domains, abt USD 10/year each), and the approximate comes to USD 200 per year. We had to move due to increased traffic. The previous host allowed us only 1 GB/month of data transfer. We current use 5Gb+.

Some other expenses have been deferred for the lack of funds till now (for example, if we need to upgrade the member area software - that should itself be abt USD 200. the best alternative is UBB).

Before now, we have received 2 major contributions (I used to pay for the site the myself before I got back to school).

In Jul 01 there was a $100 contribution from Ms Shashi Shokeen Ravindran . The hosting service we were using then was www.virtualave.net and the hosting charges were USD 10/month.

The other was a INR 8600 contribution from Mr Anoop Singh Ahlawat in April 02.

You were possibly not a member of the site then, but both these contributions were duly acknowledged and heartful thanks conveyed thrugh the site and offline.

The older posts have been deleted, but the recent one is here...
http://www.jatland.com/cgi-bin/ub/UltraBoard.cgi?action=Read&BID=10&TID=42

All fund that I receive are put in a SEPERATE account in my bank. All contributions are converted into equivalent USD amounts (The balance now is abt USD 400). Jatland.com does not have a corpus that it can afford a seperate bank account. Nor it is a registered entity. To that extent, its just on my word.

>>>>edited<<<<

This is a personal effort for me. I get nothing out of it, except immense satisfaction. You'd be amazed at the amount of time it takes to just answer all the mails I get. Many people mail in to write how they can help, but do not take the matter further. The conversion rate is rather low, but quite expected. The button on the site takes care of that effort.

Any contributor who feels ANY doubt, may please drop me a line, and I will gladly return his/her contribution. No one else needs know about it.

I pride myself (and the site) in its honesty and integrity and the mutual trust that exists on the site. I would strongly like to protect that, and deny the insinuations in your post.

Warm Regards
Nitin

urmiladuhan
February 13th, 2003, 09:09 AM
Dear Nitin,

I just wanted an approximate idea about

the expenses for running the site, which you have detailed out very nicely. My wording in my post should've been better for which i apologise. I guess i overreacted as a carryover from my last post on similar topic

1-2 months back.

I agree that this site should be supported since it is a small yearly investment. No one should expect you to pay all the bills.

I am quite glad for the voluntary donations.

Being a student, i cannot contribute much at the moment, but in future i will gladly do if possible.

I hope there are no more misunderstandings and we can put this whole episode in the past.

scsheorayan
February 13th, 2003, 09:40 AM
That is good. Atleast there is no misunderstanding now. However there is a lesson to be learnt here. 1.Think before we accuse some one publicly and 2.stop looking gift horse in the mouth.

Nitin is doing a great job by providing this platform for all educated Jats to inter act. Don't let pettiness spoil it. If some one has a question they can always send a private mail.
Let us not forget small things bother small people and am sure we all are trying not to be too small.

Weldone Nitin and don't let these small things get to you. Good luck!

gajeshd
February 13th, 2003, 11:04 AM
Dear Nitin Bhai & Urmila Ji,

It is matter of satisfaction and pride the way this very crucial episode has been delt with by both of you.

I think it is not donation what comes from the members, it is the contribution. And therefore declaring very loudly also is not necessary but yes, for the purpose of transparency and records, acknowldgment may well be enough.

And for that matter none of us can match the contribution (in terms of time and dedication) of dear Nitin.

Nitin Bhai you are doing a wonderful job please keep it up. Do let me know if I can be of any assistance.

urmiladuhan
February 13th, 2003, 11:51 AM
Shubha Chand Sheorayan (Feb 12, 2003 11:10 p.m.):

That is good. Atleast there is no misunderstanding now. However there is a lesson to be learnt here. 1.Think before we accuse some one publicly and 2.stop looking gift horse in the mouth.



Nitin is doing a great job by providing this platform for all educated Jats to inter act. Don't let pettiness spoil it. If some one has a question they can always send a private mail.

Let us not forget small things bother small people and am sure we all are trying not to be too small.



Weldone Nitin and don't let these small things get to you. Good luck!

*******************

Mr. Sheroyan,

When one creates a website, one WANTS people

to come to the site. In case of bulletin boards the content is provided by the users.

Therefore the expenses are minimal for a website. It is a nice facility, but to call it a 'gift horse" is ludicrous. The users can just as well spend their time discussing other issues elsewhere. If this site ever amounts to anything, Nitin will get his reward that way. Otherwise it is a chat place for older and less busy people.

I never said that the expenses should not be shared because Nitin has spent time and effort in creating this site and should not bear the whole burden. My objection was about the need for transparency in everything and any issue that concerns all members should be discussed publically and not through private e mails.

As for "small things", i expected a less emotional response from a person of your experience.



Regards,

Urmila.

scsheorayan
February 13th, 2003, 04:05 PM
Thanks Urmila ji,
The purpose of my message was to maintain enthusiasm and harmony on the site. Admittedly I am not as gifted with words as some of our better educated collegues and probably should have been more subtle with choice of words. Probably holi cow should have been better than a gift horse.

Any way I find the whole thing very childish and would rather stop here with a small friendly advice that "Motivation is adversely affected by critisism whether it is Nitin, Urmila or Shubha Chand. It applies to all of us. Less we criticise better off we all will be.

As far as the emotion is concerned I don't think any one of you have done any thing so terrible as to upset me. In my daily life I come across many opportunities to feel upset. But shamelessly I take them in my stride and move on. I think we all ought to be a bit more thick skinned and outward looking than worrying about our own feelings at the expense of others feelings. Personally I appreciate the efforts Nitin has put in to this website and I think he has a giving nature and the least we can do is not criticise him. The idea of transparency is good and am sure Nitin has no objection to posting it on the website as and when the amount becomes substantial and Jatland becomes a registered organisation. Until then he finances it from his own bank account which is an obvious and economical choice.

If and when Nitin gets any material benefit out of it we all must be happy for him and be proud that one of us has gained materially. In the mean time I am sure he gets self satisfaction which is better than any thing money can buy.

Once again I would like to thank both of you for raising this topic in public and resolving it amicably.

Best Regards!

rsdalal
February 13th, 2003, 09:58 PM
How we can forget, that many members, when they came to this site and their first post included many Thanks to Nitin for the site.

Even if he earns any amount in future from this site, I do not have any problem, but rather I will be happy that one jat bhai is getting ahead.
Many other members have also contributes in many ways, but Nitin's effort for the site are most appreciative.

"Once you have something, you do not have value for it" This is very true in this case.

yvsgaawar
February 13th, 2003, 10:48 PM
Even if he earns any amount in future from this site, I do not have any problem, but rather I will be happy that one jat bhai is getting ahead.
"Once you have something, you do not have value for it" This is very true in this case.


Rightly said Ranvir Bhai,
VERY SAD EPISODE HAPPENED HERE. THIS IS NOT A GOOD TREND. NOT GOOD AT ALL.

biotechs2001
February 13th, 2003, 11:29 PM
I would like to say its very unfortunate to blame a Genuine person in this way.
I appreciate Nitin's dedication to keeping alive this site.

harvindermalik
February 15th, 2003, 11:47 PM
bhai nitin ye typical SUKH KA DUKH ka mamla hai.. koi na jat kaththe honge to isi isi bat bhi hongi....
pr meri taraf tai... shabash tannai yo kam krya..

mai ek option de rha hu agar tu thik samze to..contribution lene ki jagah..

MAI ES JATLAND NAI GOD LEN NAI TAYYAR SU..JITNA JO EXPENCE HO WO MAI PAY KARAN NAI TAYYAR HU... JAI TU YE IDEA THIK SAMZAI TO MANNAI BTA DE.. FER KISE TAI NA LEN KI JARURAT RHEGI NA HISAB DEN KI...

ndahiya
February 16th, 2003, 05:55 PM
Dear friends

Thanks for your kind words and support.

The purpose of the site is to involve as much of the community (irrespective of age, sex, location) as possible. Any concerns that might spoil the mutual trust and relatedness are best discussed in public, and to that extent am satisfied that this discussion took place.

One way people like to be involved with the site is by contribution time and other resources. The purpose of accepting contributions is also to involve a larger group of individuals who feel a sense of commitment to the community, and would like a community/place that is worth their while.

Harvinder bhai, thanks for your generous offer, but in light of the above reasoning, I believe that it is not desirable to be singly funded. Things are quite comfortable, so there is no crisis.

I would like the site to have a corpus, that can be independently managed for social projects and managed by a group of senior members. Lets see if we get to that stage.

Regards
Nitin

ps: This topic can now close.

budhian
March 10th, 2003, 09:49 PM
Folks call me a digger if you like but I felt fully disgusted on reading Urmila Dhuyan's smokey post which appeared more like a personal attack on character and intentions , rather than a genuine query .

*Thumbs down*

vivek
March 11th, 2003, 08:53 AM
I did get offended at attack at Nitin's character. It was Nitin's idea to create this site, and he devotes his own time to maintain it. If Urmila has problems, she does not have to log in...or she could create her own site.

I doubt if Nitin is making any money of this site, and if he is..more power to him. I hate it when people try to bring down others who are trying to achieve something. I have seen it once too many times in our community where a successful person will be torn down by the lazy ones....attributing all sorts of attack on his character for the reason for his success.....and a rather convenient reason for their own failures.

uday
March 11th, 2003, 09:07 AM
Biggest vulnerability to JAT community is from INSIDERS not from OUTSIDERS....

If somone gets in future... that is his efforts which will bear his\ her fruit.... let him earn...

JAT ki purani aadat hai... na to aap progressive kaam kare or jo kare to uski bhi taang keech ker nicheyle aaye.....

lrburdak
March 13th, 2003, 01:43 PM
It is not unusual in any community based project to face this type of situation. To some extent we have to tolerate it. Probably Urmila has left the site because we do not find her posts after Feb 18. Let us bring her back on the site.She has realized her mistake.She has been contributing good posts ,except this episode.We should give weightage to positive points only. I am reminded of a hindi DOHA-KSHAMA BADAN KO CHAHIYE CHHOTAN KO UTPAT.So forgive and forget it.
As far as Nitin is concerned, his integrity is beyond doubt. He is doing a wonderful job for the entire community. We all are thankful to him. It is only Nitin who has made jat community as an integrated global entity.Nitin you are doing a very difficult jobe. Do not be disheartened. Keep it up.

rsdalal
March 13th, 2003, 07:09 PM
Burdak ji,
You are right Urmila has contributed a lot positive posts to this site and in many cases she took the initiatives as well. She should come back. you are right we should forget and forgive.....
...Ranvir


Laxman Burdak (Mar 13, 2003 03:13 a.m.):
It is not unusual in any community based project to face this type of situation. To some extent we have to tolerate it. Probably Urmila has left the site because we do not find her posts after Feb 18. Let us bring her back on the site.She has realized her mistake.She has been contributing good posts ,except this episode.We should give weightage to positive points only. I am reminded of a hindi DOHA-KSHAMA BADAN KO CHAHIYE CHHOTAN KO UTPAT.So forgive and forget it.
As far as Nitin is concerned, his integrity is beyond doubt. He is doing a wonderful job for the entire community. We all are thankful to him. It is only Nitin who has made jat community as an integrated global entity.Nitin you are doing a very difficult jobe. Do not be disheartened. Keep it up.

sansanwalamit
March 14th, 2003, 07:29 AM
Urmila should surely come back .....
there is a need for her on this site ......
we all do mistakes and who knows how many mistakes I have done in here ...thus she should come back ....

ishwarlamba
March 17th, 2003, 02:52 AM
We all are missing Urmila on this site.
I saw a posting by Sujata after a long time, we are happy that she has started back contibuting. If these talented ladies do not contribute, site becomes less informative.
Also we should respect all point of views.

ishwarlamba
March 17th, 2003, 02:59 AM
Nitin is considered very talented even among North America. Last month Mr Girish Khosla, general secretary of Arya Pratinidhi Shabha of America visied Australia. Even he had very high praise for our internet expert Jat boy.

vrattan
April 9th, 2003, 03:09 AM
Nitin Bhai,
First of all I would like to thank you for providing this wonderful site to all of us jats away from our homeland. What you have given us in form of this site is simply invaluable. As for this issue of finances, I just wonder why should you feel obligated to explain the expenses of asset/property/website fully owned by you. If someone wants to contribute, thats fine if someone doesnt still its fine. But I can see that why there is no successful jat community organization.

rkumar
April 9th, 2003, 11:28 AM
Dear Friends,

US$ 200.00 per year is a very small amount for the cause of Jats and this site is doing vauable service. I am a relatively new mmember at this site and really impressed with the work being done. Please accept my humble contribution of US$200.00 for the next year. Let me know how to send my payment. Please let me know if I can of of any assistance to the community. I will feel proud if I can be of some use. Please never worry about small amounts like US$ 200.00..Work you guys are doing is commanding. Entire community is proud of you fellows.

Regards
Rajendra

scsheorayan
April 12th, 2003, 05:13 PM
Dear Vivek,

Thanks for your opinion. First of all Jats do have their shortcomings like any one else. But self criticism does not help improve any thing. It can only demoralise those who are doing their bit for the community.

You are right about there being no obligation on the part of Nitin to explain the expenses. Each one of has his/her own ethical standards and philosophy of life. At very basic level one is accountable only to himself but as one's personality progresses more and more people come into our lives and depending on our relationships with them we begin to expect and offer to be part of their lives. When that happens mutual trust and friendship develops. Transparency helps this trust to flourish and make our life richer. I think by explaining the expenses Nitin has tried to maintain that trust which we all appreciate. Probably it is too early for you to have come across this situation in personal life but if you ever do then you will find out that secrecy gives rise to mistrust and transparency to trust.
Hum hi mum hain to kya hum hain !
Tum hi tum ho to kya tum ho !!

If you want to lead a meaningful life learn to share it with those around you and you will be rewarded handsomely for your efforts.

Jat's biggest enemy is arrogance and those who have controlled it have done very well in life individually or in groups. There is great power in unity and in order to be united we have to earn each other's confidence.

vrattan
April 20th, 2003, 12:46 PM
Dear Shubha Chand Uncle jee,
I agree with each and everything that you wrote. Yes, the views that I wrote were may be a bit immature. But thinking about it again from a fresh perspective a few thoughts came to my my mind, that had I been doing a perfectly honest job of maintaining a site like this out of my busy schedule the way Nitin is doing, I think I would have felt a bit sad if someone would have asked anything like finances. I find two options that one might take in such a situation. One is that he might explain everything like Nitin did. But I am not sure of the quotes like " let your actions speak for you" are a lie. In end of Ramayana people asked for agni pariksha of Sita mata and the end result was not really good. I am not saying what Sita or Lord Ram did was wrong, but I certainly feel that people were wrong in having questioned Sita mata. I am not saying that nitin shouldn't have explained the finances. But I strongly feel that such questions shouldnt have been asked in the first place. I am sure you, having seen lot more social and community life as compared to me, can provide me some with some advice as I too would some day like to step in community service.
With Regards
Vivek

scsheorayan
May 3rd, 2003, 05:56 PM
Dear Vivek,

Thanks for the honest from the heart posting. Yes like any other group it is quite normal to have a difference of opinion. We can be sometimes too blunt and offensive without intention. They say if you are not polite intentionally you can be rude unintentionally. Many of us are guilty of this insensitivity. From your posting appears sensitivity and an honest desire to do something for the community. Please do so by all means and our blessings are with you. On the way you can only gain something which may not always be thanks and praise but can be sure of criticism. "Jat Naa Jano Goon ! Chana naa maani baah!! Chandan Roonkh Katake ib kyon rove beera!!"
This is the moral of an old story about Jat and wild animals. In plain language it means gratitude is not found in Jats and they can be quite cruel at times. That is true for any other community as well. Community service is great thing but not every one can do it. It requires heart of gold and head of a saint.