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rsdalal
May 14th, 2002, 08:57 PM
This is a serious matter, which most of the comunities faces nowadays. What our Bade-Budhe say on this ?

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2002/20020514/main6.htm

http://www.amarujala.com/today/ktlnews.asp?city=3KTL12C.htm

Tragic end to inter-caste love marriage
Our Correspondent

Kaithal, May 13
An inter-caste love marriage between a local youth, Deepu Rana, a Rajput, and Geetanjali, a Jat girl and daughter of an ASI, which was legally registered, saw a tragic end when Deepu Rana, who was booked by the local police on the charge of rape a few days ago and allegedly beaten up by the brother of the girl, succumbed to his injuries at a hospital in Chandigarh and was cremated here on May 9.

Meanwhile, the girl, who consumed some poisonous substance following the beating-up incident, after struggling for life at a local nursing home, breathed her last this morning.

According to reports, the boy went to the residence of the ASI in the Civil Lines to meet Geetanjali on the fateful day. He was noticed by the brother of the girl and badly beaten up, injured and later shifted to the PGI in serious condition. Later, he was shifted to some private hospital there. The brother of the girl lodged a complaint with the police that Deepu Rana made an attempt to rape his sister, but when she raised the alarm, he hit the boy in the head to save his sister. On the basis of the complaint, the police booked Deepu Rana under Sections 376 and 511 of the IPC. The same evening the girl consumed some poisonous substance and was shifted to a local nursing home in a serious condition. She could not make any statement before her death today.

Interestingly, the whole affair took a new turn when Deepu Rana’s brother brought to the notice of the SP, Mr A. S. Chawla, that Deepu and Geetanjali were major and had a court marriage on March 29, 2001, which was duly registered by the local Tehsildar-cum-Registrar, Marriages, Mr Lachman Dass Verma. The registration was duly witnessed by two persons who were identified by two local advocates. The boy and the girl had claimed before the Registrar that they had already got married as per Hindu rites on November 17, 2000.

Deepu’s brother, who is a Captain in the Army, alleged that when his brother went to meet his legally married wife, he was mercilessly beaten up and falsely booked on rape charge due to the influence of the father of the girl who was a police official. Following this the SP directed the DSP, Headquarters, Mr Amir Singh Sabharwal, to investigate the charges levelled by the brother of Deepu Rana and report to him. The DSP, after a preliminary investigation, reported that there was no substance in the rape charge levelled against the boy.

The SP then suspended Sub-Inspector Randhir Singh, Raj Mal, ASI, and ASI Satpal, father of the girl. However, according to information, the police could not get the statement of Deepu Rana and Geetanjali as both were in a serious condition. The police has booked Vikas, son of ASI Satpal, under Section 304 of the IPC.

scsheorayan
May 15th, 2002, 05:47 AM
It is a sensitive and serious issue with serious consequences for all affected people. There is no doubt there are double standards here whether we like it or not. People at times do act irrationaly with tragic consequences some times. From hind sight it can be said that probably a compromise solution could have been reached. It would have required co-operation of all parties. But it is too late for these families now. God give them strength to face the tragedy.
This case reinforces that Jats are sentimental and inter cast marriages are not always seen favourably. In some cases they bring more misery than happiness. Inspite of all our education and progress We still care much about the society and find it hard to accept situations which defy our long held traditions. It does require a lot of courage and maturity to accept an intercast marriage in a traditional Jat family.

tarrysingh
May 15th, 2002, 08:59 PM
I think it's very regressive.
We're not at all advanced. Intercaste or intercontinental, it always does the "gaanth(knot) aa gayi" in the relationship.
Jat's and rajputs are so very caste biased but they need start living in the real world.
why waste a lifetime hating and despising each other???

cheers!
tarry

brainspeak
May 23rd, 2002, 04:38 PM
hello everyone.my name is kuldeep and i am a new member of this site.
i read the news item that u posted on the site.
wht the girl's brother did was both wrong and right.....it was right in the sense was that maybe he thought that his sister was being taken for a ride and was made fool of......it was obviously wrong because it lead to the death of two young people who were on the threshold of a new life together......
then there is an element of having double standards....suppose the girl's brother was to marry some non jat girl.....i dont think his family would have objected to that....i dont think his sister would have beaten up her bhabhi......i dont forsee any of these possibilities....then why did those two young people die?...did they have to die?.....
the answer is no....
there should have been some flexibility in the views of the family ......but if they couldnot change the girl should have abided by the wishes of her family.....and the girls brother should have been restrained...
and finally the views vary from person to person....family to family....

rsdalal
May 23rd, 2002, 06:22 PM
Kuldeep Singh Dhindhwal (May 23, 2002 07:08 a.m.):
then there is an element of having double standards....suppose the girl's brother was to marry some non jat girl.....i dont think his family would have objected to that....i dont think his sister would have beaten up her bhabhi......i dont forsee any of these possibilities....then why did those two young people die?...did they have to die?.....
the answer is no....
there should have been some flexibility in the views of the family ......but if they couldnot change the girl should have abided by the wishes of her family.....and the girls brother should have been restrained...
and finally the views vary from person to person....family to family....

Welcome Kuldeep.
I agree with your view and most of us will agree that we have double standards and here are the few reasons for this.
-- Brother is always expected to protect her sister, but not other way around. I am not saying this mentality should or should not be there. But it is there, isn't it. This has both pros and cons.
-- Family would not have objected that much, in case brother would have married to a Non Jat girl, but most of the Jat families do not at least prefer to marry outside jat community.

Out-come is, two lives have been lost and third one is ruined. Why our jat community do not have answers what this boy should have done in this situation. So I am afraid this kind of cases will keep comming.

guliya
May 24th, 2002, 11:47 AM
hi all

this is a unfortunate incident, but as all us know that jat ego is too big an issue and jat cannot see anything beyong his ego.
i hope jats become relatively more liberal minded. but in the end i would say that best person to marry a jat is a jat , cos any other would require many big efforts to settle .

crsnadar
June 13th, 2002, 05:30 PM
MAY GOD GRESS DEPPU & GEETANJALI.

crsnadar
June 13th, 2002, 05:34 PM
I have read the above ironical story.
We are going toward a modern &
advanced world. It does not mean that we have to expoil our carrier in bad thing.
But intercaste marrige is not the wrong thing if the status of both of the families matches. Because when the status mismatch then if is difficult to adjust(not impossible).

SO I THINK THE BEST MATCH IS A JAT BOY-JAT GIRL

So the best thing is to discuss with parents & make them agree. If they can adjust then it is well'n'good but if they aer not agree then we should not think over it & happily be agree where our parents want.

ACCORDING TO ME PARENTS ARE THE JUDGES TO DECIDE WHERE WE HAVE TO
MARRY. I ALSO LOVE A SURYAVANSHI THAKUR GIRL & I WILL DISCUSS IT WITH MY FAMILY WHEN THE TIME OF MARRIGE WILL COME(I AM IN THIRD YEAR & I HAVE TO COMPLETE MY STUDY)& IF THEY ARE AGREE THEN BEAUTIFUL
BUT IF THEY WILL NOT AGREE I WILL SACRIFICE MY LOVE FOR MY PARENTS HAPPILY. WE MUST AVOID WRONG STEPS IN THE YOUNG AGE BECAUSE IT CAN EXPOIL OUR WHOLE CARRIER.

SO SOMETIMES MISUNDERSTANDINGS MAY COME ARISE IF WE DON'T DISCUSS WITH OUR PARENTS & WE MUST OBEY OUR PARENTS.

MAY GOD GRESS DEPPU & GEETANJALI.

brainspeak
June 14th, 2002, 07:33 PM
hi!
i read ur views....well iwant to ask one thing...
suppose u r in love with a jat gurl....and not a
thakur gurl as u say so..(its just a supposition!)....and suppose she is from a very poor family...and ur status dont match with hers....so ur one c0ndition is true that she is a jat..but the status doesnt match.....so wht will u do?.....ur parents dont agree....so u will sacrifice ur love???...right?.....
so if u have to go by ur parents then why r u falling in love....just concentrate on ur career and ur parents will marry u when the time comes....why bother urself with love and all sorts of other crap!.....
so chaudhary saab wht should be done?

shokeen123
June 17th, 2002, 06:27 AM
Here I go again....

Somehow I am reminded of these lines from William Shakespeare' s famous love story....

Capulet:

O brother Montague, give me thy hand.

This is my daughter's jointure, for no more

Can I demand.

Montague:

But I can give thee more;

For I will raise her statue in pure gold,

That whiles Verona by that name is known,

There shall no figure at such rate be set

As that of true and faithful Juliet.

Capulet:

As rich shall Romeo's by his lady's lie -

Poor sacrifices of our enmity!

These lines will have to be re-written, by a Jat Shakespeare, perhaps in another time and space!
__________________________________________________ ____________________________

1. First of all, on the article:

Two consenting adults in matrimony (in this case Deepu and Geentanjali) failed to fulfill the moral and social obligation to share their perfectly legal bond with their families. The biggest risk is not taking one - had they been honest enough to follow their hearts and with the same token be willing to face the consequences, the law (and perhaps even the families?) would've been on their side thus no allegation of rape or molestation, and tragic and vain end of two lives! Seems like there may have been huge communication gap, fueled by fear of rejection/repercussions?

What follows now is futile and inconsequential to the ones that are gone.

2. On Rahul's notes:

[quote]CH. RAHUL SINGH NADAR (Jun 13, 2002 08:04 a.m.):

I would like clarification on the following:

"But intercaste marrige is not the wrong thing if the status of both of the families matches. Because when the status mismatch then if is difficult to adjust(not impossible)."

How does one match status in the matters of heart?

"ACCORDING TO ME PARENTS ARE THE JUDGES TO DECIDE WHERE WE HAVE TO MARRY. I ALSO LOVE A SURYAVANSHI THAKUR GIRL & I WILL DISCUSS IT WITH MY FAMILY WHEN THE TIME OF MARRIGE WILL COME(I AM IN THIRD YEAR & I HAVE TO COMPLETE MY STUDY)."

Ain't it bit premature to build castles in the air? What makes you think the Suryavanshi girl doesn't have a mind of her own?

"IF THEY ARE AGREE THEN BEAUTIFUL BUT IF THEY WILL NOT AGREE I WILL SACRIFICE MY LOVE FOR MY PARENTS HAPPILY. "

I hope the Suryavanshi girl gets to read this and gets a crash course on "Love and Sacrifice 101" and is better prepared for the eventuality!

Sujata

abhishek
June 17th, 2002, 06:13 PM
Whatever happened is inhumane I mean from boy and girl's perspective it is wrong.
But then rajputs tasted their own medicine.
If you listen horror stories of jats from Rajasthan then it is payback time to rajputs .
Rajputs are one prime reasons why india was enslaved by non-hindu rulers.
They brainless hoodlums who live in past and decline to accept present.

crsnadar
June 18th, 2002, 04:52 AM
HELLO KULDEEP JI, SUJATA JI ,ABHISHEK JI & ALL MY JATFRIENDS.

**1st I have to clearify about STATUS
I & like me a major part of young age think no harm in statusmismatch.
According to me if we think practically, if both sides of are of same cast(like JAT-JAT) then mismatching of family status can be very easily adjusted.
But we cann't deny that if the status of both sides is different & they are of diff. cast then there may be easily be a formation of MONOPOLY such that one side people make a misconception about the other that all of them are like this or that (ye aise hi hote hain, ye aise hi rahte hain)so it will become very difficult to adjust(not impossible).
RAHI BAT GAREEB JAT LADKI SE SHADI KI TO I want to tell you one thing that I have never seen towards anyone's family status. The only thing I see is the nature & quality of the girl & not even me today mostly all youngers see only nature & thinking of there partner.

**now something about sacrifice
I am in 3rd year of engineering but I am only 20 year old and may be in josh I have commented something wrong. I accept my mistake but I am absolutely new in this field.
I must talk to that girl because it is the question of our both's life but we are too young to talk these thing but in future may be we need to think over these. I have commented that I will forget her but it is not so easy.
I don't know what to say more but I believe I will make manage this correctly. I talk to her & we will take most suitable decision avoiding to choose any wrong step. We both are new to these things so we should keep an eye on study majorly.
I am a very BUDHHU boy PATA NAHI YE KAISE HO GYA, MUJHE TO SAHI SE BAT BHI KARNI NAHI AATI.
But one thing is sure that Parents are at the Top and we cann't avoid there decision only thing we have to make them agree for what we want by trying again & again & again in a fair way & I hope they will be agree because they also want to see us happy.

What happens to DEEPU & GEETANJLI is an unfortunate & ironical accident. But it may also be reverse so should think broadmindedly.
So we must obey our parents & don't go against them & never hide anything from them which mwy leads to misunderstanding & may be leads to such ironical accident.


bye
-hoping for the better future of the whole community

shokeen123
June 18th, 2002, 08:47 AM
Dear Rahul:

I am sorry if I misunderstood your genuine intentions. One can only see pure innocence through your words, however, our community has long way to go dealing with the double standards. For a girl it is not the question of "to be or not to be?" but from birth to death, she endures a long, and agonizing journey through different roles! Except for a lucky few, they sit demurely in the corner to be approved through matrimonial microscope! So the question of them falling in love is never looked upon favorably. However, the tide is slowly turning, at least among educated families there is a fair exchange of ideas between the marrying couple.

In fairness to this Suryavanshi girl, if I were you, I would for now concentrate on my studies, respect and allow her to discuss her feelings on this issue, and let time and destiny decide the future. I am sure by the time you are independent and employed you will have attained better understanding about life in general. You are only 20!

And you are right about respecting your parents' wishes too! However, times have changed, one can't say what tomorrow will bring? It is better to keep an open mind, better yet, some things are best left to higher powers, at least until the time is right! If this girl is destined to be your life partner, it is bound to happen, no matter what!

Best wishes for your education!

Sujata

scsheorayan
June 18th, 2002, 09:27 AM
Agree - Rahul you should concentrate on your studies and do not get side tracked. There is plenty of time to ponder over those issues when the time comes. Have confidence in your ability to make the right decision. If you can maintain your one principle of truthfulness you have nothing to worry about marrying the right girl because your parents know more about the life than you do and give them a chance. As far as love to this girl is concerned it may be just fascination with an attractive face which could change if you raise your expectations too high. The more you think on this subject the chances are higher will be the expectations and if the girl falls short it also means higher the frustrations. It is true of any person whether it is a boy or girl. Probably it is not a bad idea to talk it out with your parents and see how they feel. However your focus should be the best grades now and a good girl later and if you go on thinking about this girl you are probably not doing full justice to your duty as a student. Remember the most important quality of a good student is celibacy which means even the thought of a girl (any girl) distracts you and it is time you realise this. Practice Yoga and meditation and shine in your career. Now is the time to become the Best student and not the best lover or husband. When time comes you should be a sought after eligible bachelor. If you can get your hands on Satyarth Parkash just read the chapter on qualities of a good student some of which I am sure you do possess but not even aware of them. For example;
1. truthfulness
2. Moderation in food and sleep.
3. Attentiveness
4. Celibacy
5. Physical fitness

Good luck!

crsnadar
June 18th, 2002, 07:23 PM
I am great thankful to SUJATA JI, ABHISHEK JI, SHUBHA JI & This site.
I am so happy to found this site because if anyone have any problem can discuss with the other elder members frankly.
I will concentrate on my study.
This site is now my favourite time pass in which we can explore ourselves & get new ideas & new thinkings.
Whenever I remind to my home & my family first I make a call to home & then surf this site because I feel a family environment on this site.

Bye
- Rahul

brainspeak
June 18th, 2002, 08:56 PM
dear rahul,
well....wht to say......now that u have expressed everything in detail.....i am wqith u!
wht u have said is right....
u say u r in an engg. college...plz let me know which college...i am also studying in Delhi College Of engineering....lets get in touch!

anurana
June 18th, 2002, 09:40 PM
Hello all the members.
It was nice reading thru all the posts on this subject.It is very satisfying to see how Ranvir brought into light a tragic story
and Rahul identified with the situation and shared his ideas and questions and how he looked upon the elders for a direction.
There is nothing wrong in falling in love and getting married. It has undesirable results when the lovers are young and really not mature enough to know what love is and what marriage is. They are unable to understand their commitments towards their partner and towards the family. If the young person first establishes himself or herself in life and gains the confidence of others so that they believe in you and have faith in you then it will be easier to convince the parents also for an arrangement which they might not accept otherwise.
And to the parents and elders , youth is a stage when the kids don't know THAT THEY DO NOT KNOW.
It is the responsibility of the parents and elder bothers/ sisters to guide them and help them. TALK TALK TALK.
In our families we try avoid talking about many issues which should be really addressed. Young people and parents are not comfortable in talking about these issues. There remains a communication gap which needs to be filled in.
I am glad Rahul found the answers to his questions.

crsnadar
June 19th, 2002, 01:13 AM
Hi Kuldeep,
You are studying in Delhi college of Engineering which is one of the reputed college in India (In top 10-15).
But I took admission in engineering college just after doing 10+2 without preperation & I was not so brilliant that time to get admission in IIT's or DCE so I got a private engineering college. After that I attempt again & get a chance to get admission in a govt. college but my parents suggess me to study where you are.
Now I am going in 4th year & have a percentage near around 80 . I have to face various competitions to get a good carrier.
You are studying in DCE so your carrier is absolutely safe if you work well.
Please let me know your branch.
My branch is EC. We can share some topics of latest technology like bluetooth, optical fibre & superconductors.
But this is not the write place to discuss such thing so we should start a new topic Techno-Friends at this beautiful site.
We can share a large knowedge of latest technology or even academik problems. You are supposed to have more knowledge but I will also contribute what I know.

Tell me something about your study & topics you studying.
I pray to GOD for your better tomorrow.
bye
- Rahul

scsheorayan
June 19th, 2002, 05:55 AM
Thanks Rahul for bringing up the topic of interest to a lot of engineers including myself. You can probably include alternative/green energy e.g. wind turbines, fuel cells etc. My personal interest in this field dates back to 1970s and have also done some R&D without any assistance which kind of limits the knowledge and experience. Some one is also working on Solar cell project and let us hope he succeeds. High tech ceramics is also an interesting material for some engineers probably we can discuss about such things and gain some knowledge.

crsnadar
June 19th, 2002, 12:24 PM
I am fully agree with you SHUBHA JI.
We can start a new topic to discuss such things.
RAMRAM SHUBHA JI

brainspeak
June 19th, 2002, 07:25 PM
hi rahul,
wht a coincidence...i am also in the same branch..
lekin bhai, DCE mein hone se kuch nahin ho sakta...agar tum padai nahin karoge to...!
aur aajkal ka to aisa haal hai ki naukari ki bahut fight hai..chaye koi bhi college ho....future ab utna safe nahin hai...
i am loking forward towards discussing the latesty things with like minded people like u....
ur idea is great lewt us give it a shape!
u can copntact me on my personal id!