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urmiladuhan
August 6th, 2002, 03:53 AM
could not agree more. If we want to preserve the Jat qualities in intercaste progeny, it is important that the dominant figure between the husband and wife should be a Jat (this may not be helped unfortunately). As is in the British royal family, daughters children take up the royal name and not the father's. I think Jat women have a very big role to play here if they happen to have an intercaste marriage. They should understand that it is the non Jat person's community that has more to gain in the long run by getting her genes. Although it is very hard to draw a line between acceptable practice and non acceptable especially when feelings are involved, i am sure that if a jat person has really known what it is to be a jat, he/she will miss out being in touch with the community (with its attitudes and a way of life) once the initial years of marriage cool off. If not, it will be a 'good riddance of bad rubbish' for our community!
I think, by remaining in the community, Jats
would be doing a service to themselves!

shokeen123
August 6th, 2002, 04:02 AM
Dear Duhan:

First of all welcome to jatland!

Secondly, kindly clarify what you meant by "it will be a 'good riddance of bad rubbish' for our community!

Who are you implying here as the bad rubbish?

Sujata

urmiladuhan
August 6th, 2002, 04:05 AM
Sujata (Aug 05, 2002 06:32 p.m.):
Dear Duhan:

First of all welcome to jatland!

Secondly, kindly clarify what you meant by "it will be a 'good riddance of bad rubbish' for our community!

Who are you implying here as the bad rubbish?


"It is very much self explainatory"
Thankyou for welcoming me on board :)
Sujata

saurabhsaharan
August 6th, 2002, 04:22 AM
Duhan Bhai!!

Welcome to JatLand!!!

So you feel any Jat who marries outside the community is "bad rubbish"?? Man please be careful of what you post. It is alright to be in favour of marriages among Jats, but caling someone who didn't do that as "rubbish" is rubbish.

Saurabh

shokeen123
August 6th, 2002, 04:27 AM
Mr. Duhan:

Thank you for your kind response. I guess some of us can't read in between lines! Why the hesitation? That's not gentleman like attitude? Have the courage to stand by your conviction, and not play riddles!

Sujata

dpdagar
August 6th, 2002, 05:09 AM
Hi All,
This is my request to all of u. Please please do not post anything (article or otherwise) that divide us. We are not politician. We want to create a family like atmosphere. I saw so many comments in last one week which r not in spirit of this community site.

rajeshsindhu
August 6th, 2002, 05:32 AM
If facts reflect reality then facts on the ground are:

1. The jat community is represented by 95% of Jats living in rural and suburb/urb areas(not by less than 1% so called intellectuals or "broad-minded"); and according to them - any Jat marrying outside the community is no more member of Jat community. One can visit the jat belt in India and can confirm this strongly( and perhaps rightly) held conviction/rule/norm/enforcement.
2. The community has never( and will never) accept intercaste married couples. Infact the families whose member(s) are involved in such marriages are looked down in disgrace. Other young(unmarried) members of those families find it difficult to get married in the community.
3. Think about it - had our forefathers not strictly enforced this ban on intercaste marriages, there would not have been any purity of Jat race that every contemporary jat is proud of.
No community on the earth has ever 'encouraged' the intercaste marriages, incluiding the most forward communities.

And, there cannot be more lame, poor and weak argument than to say that they(those who went for intercaste marriage) could not find the right match within the community.

-Rajesh

scsheorayan
August 6th, 2002, 07:46 AM
Agree that majority of Jats will not accept inter cast marriages not at present atleast. But we should not be too judgemental about those who were born in Jat family and married a non Jat. Every one has own reason(s) and makes a conscious choice regarding a life partner. We have to learn to understand other factors which come in to play besides the cast itself e.g. education, personal liking etc. etc.

There is a narrow line between strict discipline and fanaticism. It is not a new thing before also some Jats did marry outside the cast especially men but the difference was that the wife was accepted as a Jatni. Their children did have some difficulties in finding match within Jat community but they were not unsurmountable. Why has Hinduism survived for so long but never spread out to other parts of the World. The reason is simply that no one was allowed to become Hindu, so they did not spread. Flexibility and broad mindedness of the religion has helped it survive even through foreign rule. Jats are also a part of Hindu Religion and inherit all those strengths and weaknesses. Do not give up on them so easily. If you are a good human being you are also a good Jat, good, farmer, good soldier,good doctor,good engineer and have respect for others whether they are Jats, half Jats or quarter jats. Those who have self respect do not hurl insult on others.If we can not be decent on a public forum how decent can we be inside the four walls of our house where our family has to spend a large part of their life. Losing temper is not a strength but tolerance is. Jats are for strength and try to overcome the weakness if you can.

yvsgaawar
August 6th, 2002, 06:14 PM
Hi all,
Fully agreed with Devprakash. Even I can see some people deliberately trying to create row, and creating an unfriendly atmosphere. This is not good for Jatland.com as well for the JAT community. No one is superior and inferior in this forum. If you are not agree with a particular post, the best way is to either avoid it or try not to write commanding words. (No Police JOB! PLEASE).

Happy Jatland.com,

shokeen123
August 6th, 2002, 07:31 PM
Thank you Devprakash, Yagyavir, and Shubha Chand Bhai!

I have enough arrogance within me to deal with any of the indirect, hurtful comments, made by a few people. Believe me, I can talk in the same language.

BUT

Having the wisdom of many years behind in life, as a mother of two, and most certainly out of respect for the 99% of the dedicated Jatland members, I am going to keep quite.

Having said that, I would like to emphasize though, that it is one thing to have difference of opinion, but to stir a controversy for personal gains or to seek higher moral grounds, is neither fair, nor sensible.

I know many a Jats, right here on this board, who are either married to non-Jats or have a very close family member who is married to a non-Jat. Furthermore, it is true, that the Jat community is still very resistant to this recent move (intercaste marriages), but this is something none of us have control over. Jat community, just like any other, is progressing, and evolving. Evolution brings about changes, sometimes unwanted; nevertheless, no body should be branded as "rubbish!" Because we don't know the circumstances of the people who ventured outside Jat community? Perhaps if you knew, you might even have a change of heart!

Once again, thanks to those who have volunteered to allow the free dialogue, without the persecution mania. I couldn't agree more to stop the division right here, right now! On the other hand, we all, as Jats, have within us the easily provoked, stubborn side, which is ready to come out.

With deep regards for those who have understanding in their hearts for every human being!

Sujata

mansi
August 6th, 2002, 07:58 PM
Dear everyone
beside reading all this,the question in my mind still remains that at the end of the day and all what is it that is important to us in our life out of marriage...
the happiness out of marriage or the marriage out of social stigma and forced to be looked like a happy one ?please clear my view, can somebody!.and if it's happiness then what is the guarantee that getting married within our cast is going to give us all the happiness and peace of mind? i guess nobody gets married to make life miserable and hard to live after all. and if it's so then there is no point in getting married.
still would like to hear views from you all on this.

mansi
August 6th, 2002, 08:21 PM
Dear all
i don't think so that the people who talk straight forward and to the point thing are the one's trying to show any kind of superiority over others i think it's better to say it specific and exact then to keep your statement ambigious and keep on beating around the bushes.
and also we all know it that talking and sounding hard and rash doesn't mean that one is bad by heart too.
BHAI KADAI KADAI KADWA BOLAN ALAY DIL KAI BAHUT ACHAY MANAS HOWAN SA! and those who are good to everyone are actually good to none,and those who are bad to everyone are actually bad to none!
i know that doesn't implies diplomaticaly.so there remains no reason for one to mind it aswell.
BIG SMILES PLEASE:-)

ndahiya
August 6th, 2002, 09:18 PM
hi everyone

Being puratanical about these issues hardly helps! If we are absolutely honest with ourselves, the community has miles and miles to go before we can call ourselves a success as a community.
And while it may be 'preferable' for cultural reasons alone to prefer a marriage in the Jats, it should not, by any stretch of imagination, be termed as the only acceptable form!!!

lets be a little more tolerant of different views. and while we are all proud to be jats, let us not put blinkers on our eyes.

nitin

shokeen123
August 6th, 2002, 09:36 PM
Thank you sir!

Now, can you tell me how can I get my picture on the board like yours....?

Sujata

scsheorayan
August 7th, 2002, 05:15 AM
How do you define Happiness. It is a state of mind. The moment one start putting conditions on the terms of happiness the happiness becomes conditional and temporary. There are a very few guarantees in life whether one marries in the cast, outside the cast or does not marry at all the happiness is never guaranteed. It is like a shadow you start running after it and it will keep running away from you. But when you are busy doing your job one day you may find it perched on your shoulder. Have patience and engage yourself in the service of all creatures and happiness is guaranteed. Good company and right inspiration helps us maintain balance in our lives.

Believe you like straight talks and no beating around the bush. Here it is and hope you like it otherwise tough luck because that is the way world works and no body can provide you happiness on a platter. If you see your happiness in others happiness you are a happy one and if you place your own happiness over and above the happiness of others around you are cursed with misery. So it is all up to you whether you want to be happy or miserable. Take your pick. Marriage is only one part of the life.

dkumar
August 7th, 2002, 12:05 PM
I echo with Nitin and of the view that we need to take proactive measures and working out-of-the box which I am assured would really made the difference to make us successful as community!

Thumbs Up Nitin!:-)

shokeen123
August 7th, 2002, 06:22 PM
Dear Shubha Chand Bhai:

What a pleasure to actually see the person behind the valuable thoughts! A picture is worth a thousand words...!

Talking about pictures, just a comment in general, we can now discern a whole lot more than needs to be! It really helps in conforming the thought process and responses...

Great idea to have the picture with one's thoughts!

Sujata

rajeshsindhu
August 7th, 2002, 06:30 PM
'Marriage is private affair', as per western culture. And
'Marriage is a social affair', as per Indian culture.

Discussion by nature of itself invloves confliction. Expression of views is ok as long as its not a personalised and direct hit to specific person.
So guys, try to be tolerant of other's views even if its not fitting into your own chemistry. No one is forcing one's views on others, but everyone is exercising 'free and fair' expression. Jatland is a public plateform and beauty of a public plateform is that it is never homogenious. The description of 'General Talk' on this site says: 'anything under the sun!'.
Rest depends upon how one takes it.

cheers!
--rajesh

shokeen123
August 7th, 2002, 07:27 PM
So then, we have now established that those who venture outside of the community (for whatever reasons) shall not be treated in an outragiously condescending way...

"(con·de·scend·ing [kònd sénding ] adjective snobby: behaving toward other people in a way that shows you consider yourself socially or intellectually superior to them, especially when explaining or giving something."

"Good riddance of the bad rubbish from the community?"

No one on this board is worthy of such neanderthal! This sentence shall be removed from this borad!

Actually, I have been not even been outspoken about the legal ramification of such ethnic or racially oriented slurs. Those of us who have lived in the US long enough know that such comments are treated with utmost scrutiny in this land. Indeed, it can very easily be perceived as a derogatory and discriminatory comment, and subject to punitive action.

Sujata

amitdahiya
August 7th, 2002, 10:42 PM
To the learned people who have posted their opinions with such a rush of adrenalin the result of your efforts seems to reflect more Josh than Hosh. Just a few thinking points before anyone thinks that he is on a strong wicket to propose racial and ethnic purity in this day and age.
1. Do you think that the Jat Kaum came out of a single pair of ancestors and from one specific location. Look around you at the diffferent sizes, shapes and complexions of Jats and the whole notion that someone is in a position to espouse racial purity and proclaim genetic exclusivity on our part is laughable in the extreme. I am a Dahiya I have two sons one is 6'3" and the other is 5'10" is one of them more of a Dahiya than the other is one of them more of a Jat than the other, indeed not. Sure one thanks their Genes for the fact that they are strong, healthy, bold and brave but theyre both doing extremely well academically should i be worried that the High IQ's mean that there might be a little coffee in the cream. No again!

2.The truth is simple and the matter easily resolved, let all those who speak for racial purity post their photographs and details of height, weight, I.Q, Academic records, athletic achivement, complexion parents Gotras. Lets compare them and decide for ourselves how well they compare against each other and how much homogeniety they enjoy. At the end of this excercise we shall arrive at one useful conclusion that this was a fine topic for the humour column but i suspect that Anu Rana who does a rather good job of moderating that forum might throw the entire postings out without even the trace of a laugh.

The Jat Kaums strength lies in the massive pool of genetic resources that have come together from a vast swathe of territory conquered by the Jats. How do you think we got so many Gotras? they all mark important genetic landmarks attached as the Kaum evolved and grew on its long journey from a heroic past.

3.In nature the greatest strength is diversity not singularity. The dinosaurs lacked the diversity to evolve and survive. If our imagination and intellect fail us we too could fail to exploit the opportunities available through continuous improvement and culture change.

4. Surely we are not going to allow a handful of highly literate but poorly educated individuals lead us into an intellectual and physical swamp to die like the Dinosaurs and the Parsis.

mansi
August 7th, 2002, 11:16 PM
respected shubha chand ji
i accept and respect your elderly statement and may be you are right too that happiness is all state of mind and nothing is guaranteed in life ,whereas my statement and raising this question about happiness and gauarantee was merely to the above mentioned statement where it was said that only jat to jat marriages are the kind of perfect one. i agree geneticaly it might be the perfect one but is that the only thing we look for in our marriages? aren't we already putting a kind of condition to the pre defined happiness.
i understand this and with ones happiness i never meant to say to care only for his/hers own happiness and forget everyone else, it definitely becomes selfishness not happiness,here my point was ,shouldn't the happiness of the person be a priority then to focus only on marriages with in jats,(but again what is happiness?) i am also not saying that jat to jat marriage is not the happy one or the perfect one but i also don't want to rule out the fact completely that jats and intercast marriages are also not the good one ,my question was,isn't happiness the basic part of marriage,and if it's so then why do we focus only on the casts in the matter of marriages.okay...... i am confused here! that if we call happiness in marriage a selfish thing then getting married into ones own community to pass on the perfect and good genes is the unselfish and the right thing.it has lead to more confusion then to clear it.
rajesh bhai i agree with you that marriages are social affair as per indian and jat culture.
this all is just a discussion nothing like arguing please!
may be this thought and topic is like a circle,as everytime it ends from where it begins so obviously it will remain confusing try anyone howmuch:)

shokeen123
August 8th, 2002, 01:05 AM
"To whom it may concern"

The offending sentence needs to be removed before ending this thread so casually!

Thank you!

mansi
August 8th, 2002, 01:20 AM
Sujata di
pehla bata dandai,aak pehla ya offending post hatan gi pher yo thread end howa ga itni matha pacha to na karni padi es posting glyan
:-)

shokeen123
August 8th, 2002, 01:37 AM
Mansi you are right, if someone had been sensitive enough, at least that one line ("Good riddance of bad rubbish...") should've been removed long ago!

Sujata

brij
August 8th, 2002, 04:30 AM
Tsk, tsk. Some 'progressives' here act like frightened children threatening lawsuits or whatever merely to prohibit free speech.
FYI, the original poster was well within her rights to post what she did. Her choice of words could've been better, but whatever gave you the idea that expressing views is 'illegal'?!!? Perhaps you project your own fears on others.
Jats are defined by a certain attitude towards life and its challenges. The Jat regiment has the motto 'Jat balwan, Jat bhagwan', or so I heard. What other community would be so brash? There are many characteristics that are _unique_ to Jats. Sikhism would never have made any big impact had Jats not joined the movement. To this day, Sikh Jats dominate Sikhism. Why, you would ask?
The answer is simple: As a culture, Jats are indoctrinated to avoid despair. Everything has a solution.
Would mixed marriages change that? Yes, they would, if the culture of the family deviates from the common points of the culture of the community.
If someone believes that arguing against mixed marriages means arguing against progress, well, I would not know what to say to such a person. Perhaps I will start another thread related to this topic later.

p.s. As for libel/slander, that's a joke in the land of KKK and Jerry Falwell (called Mohamed a pedophile I believe) / Pat Robertson (he calls Hindus 'demon worshippers'). Sheesh, people. Get a handle on yourselves!

scsheorayan
August 8th, 2002, 04:35 AM
Thanks Mansi,

It is getting interesting and we agree that marriage itself is not every thing. It is the entire life and what one did with it which counts. Quality of life is more imporatnt than the quantity or number of years one lives.
Can you answer one simple question i.e. Why were you born ? Depending on the answer of this question the individual establishes one's own life's objective which tend to meet those requirements. For example some one may think he is born to enjoy the life, other person may think he is born to make the World a better place and will do every thing in his power to achieve that goal. Perhaps our scriptures could help you understand the complexities of this process as to why people are different. But they are that is the fact.

Some where in the scheme of things we find out that our life is not ours alone to do what we like with it because it also affects other people. That is where social traditions and culture comes in. Over the years society has followed various customs and traditions some good and some bad. These traditions keep changing with time. Fifty years ago parents did not need children's permission to marry them to any individual parents thought fit and children accepted it as Parents Blessings, because they believed that their parents have as much right on their lives as they do and because they are more experienced thus will make the right decision. Some children still think the same way but apparently not every one. That is the main source of confusion. If one thinks parents know the best trust their decision but for whatever reason if one can not accept it parents should be happy to allow children to make their own decision whether within the same cast or otherwise. As the society exists and for those who interact with larger community marriage with in the same cast is preferable as it does not cause ripples in the household and family. On the other hand if an individual does not care much about the society there is little difference in which cast or religion he/she marries. It is easier said than done and the fact remains that individuals are bound to come across old friends, relatives who may not accept them the same person he/she was before marriage. Does it help?

scsheorayan
August 8th, 2002, 05:02 AM
Sujata (Aug 07, 2002 08:52 a.m.):
Dear Shubha Chand Bhai:

What a pleasure to actually see the person behind the valuable thoughts! A picture is worth a thousand words...!

Talking about pictures, just a comment in general, we can now discern a whole lot more than needs to be! It really helps in conforming the thought process and responses...

Great idea to have the picture with one's thoughts!

Sujata

Thanks for your kind words. yes a picture is worth thousand words. In my case age is also showing (It is not that I am afraid of old age) and because of our cultural tradition some youngsters out of respect for the age may not be able to communicate freely. Therefore I will take off my photo and instead put some thing of common interest or a Jat symbol. Hope you don't mind it.

shokeen123
August 8th, 2002, 07:33 AM
[quote]Brij Dehiya (Aug 07, 2002 07:00 p.m.):

“Tsk, tsk. Some 'progressives' here act like frightened children threatening lawsuits or whatever merely to prohibit free speech.”

Wow! How enlightening! Something rings bell…er… not too long ago didn’t we recommend a “change of religion for Jats to improve?” Going by that token shouldn’t one be allowed to change caste to seek similar happiness?

Secondly, who is scared? It takes guts to stand up and question some one? Are we on the same page here?

No one is threatening any one with a lawsuit. FYI… it was just a reminder of the rules of the land of liberty…liberty of all kinds, I mean, speech and action… sounds fair?

“FYI, the original poster was well within her rights to post what she did. Her choice of words could've been better, but whatever gave you the idea that expressing views is 'illegal'?!!? Perhaps you project your own fears on others.”

I will give you the benefit of doubt for half of the sentence… yes, she was within her rights to promote marriage within Jats, but for heaven’s sake, whatever gave her the right to flaunt around with hurtful language, “Good riddance of bad rubbish from our community?” Haven’t you been able to distinguish the general consensus echoing the freedom of action too?

“Jats are defined by a certain attitude towards life and its challenges. The Jat regiment has the motto 'Jat balwan, Jat bhagwan', or so I heard.

The same Jat regiment has also lost lot of soldiers, leaving war widows behind, How many times have you about that Jat tragedy?

“There are many characteristics that are _unique_ to Jats. Sikhism would never have made any big impact had Jats not joined the movement. To this day, Sikh Jats dominate Sikhism. Why, you would ask? The answer is simple: As a culture, Jats are indoctrinated to avoid despair.”

I am with you on this one! However, no matter how much you or I try to campaign against such practices, we don’t own the world!

“Everything has a solution. Would mixed marriages change that? Yes, they would, if the culture of the family deviates from the common points of the culture of the community.”

I would agree here too, that the mixed offspring will have a different genetic make up, but not necessarily inferior! Have you not the same heart that condemns inhumanity? Are they the people of lesser Gods?

“If someone believes that arguing against mixed marriages means arguing against progress, well, I would not know what to say to such a person. Perhaps I will start another thread related to this topic later.”

Jeees! Give me a break! If some one believes that calling people “rubbish” for no rhyme and reason lends them upper hand, I wouldn’t know what to say to that person!

Nevertheless, I think most people here have been pretty accommodating of the fact that matrimony between Jats is the best way to go, and there is concerted acceptance to that effect, but puhleeeeeeze don’t tell me any Tom Dick and Harry here on this board will be allowed to openly disrespect board members with outside matrimony, or family members with outside matrimony. Freedom of speech comes with a price, it asks for the very same understanding with which you have so made the distinction to be understood.

p.s. As for libel/slander, that's a joke in the land of KKK and Jerry Falwell (called Mohamed a pedophile I believe) / Pat Robertson (he calls Hindus 'demon worshippers'). Sheesh, people. Get a handle on yourselves!

I have no idea what you are talking about? You lost me here! I am neither a Jerry Falwell fan, nor does my vocabulary include the word KKK! I don’t care about people with stereotypical attitudes, and if it were up to Pat Robertson, believe me you wouldn’t be here in the first place! He is a xenophobic - he hates immigrants!

Sujata

rajeshsindhu
August 8th, 2002, 10:57 AM
Whatever arguments/fights etc is going here in immaterial to facts and reality existing in the community. The real representatives of the Jat community( all those mahapanchayats, khaps, panchayats etc) don't care about what people say on this site. They go by the facts mentioned earlier. Their rulings on intercaste marriages are well publicised, and followed by the community. Those who dare to go against are thrown out of the caste and face social bycott. The community records say that - the comunity can reluctanly(though social stigma still remains) accept a non-Jat girl( as the girl comes to a Jat house, given a Jat sirname, and follows Jat community customes/norms; as they say) and the man is not declared a nonJat. But Jat girl marrying a nonJat is totally unacceptable( as the girl goes to a nonJat house, takes a nonJat sirname, and follows a nonJat house norms)and the community no more see the girl a Jat.
And this is not anyone's view/theory/phylosophy, its reality on the ground.

-Rajesh

mansi
August 8th, 2002, 07:21 PM
Respected Shubha Chand ji
first of all this picture you had posted is very beautiful has nice colors ,clear and from good angel looks like a very professional photography!but your picture to is needed here on jatland for the wise guidence and will act a kind of self monitoring thing to others and thanks for your explanation on this topic surely it helps one, to atleast think in another way for the same thing, also may be what you said is right too.
though, most of it has been made clear by rajesh bhai too, that marriages are a social event in indian culture and especialy in jat culture... may be that is why we think more about society then about an individual. atlast one have to live with the society not with the individual:).........got it now!

mansi
August 8th, 2002, 09:24 PM
Bhai Brij
yo reply pad ka to esa laga ha janu ya to koai zbardasti si ho gi kai ya to mahra topic kai saath sab agree karo nahin to saab galat baat kar rahai ho aur mahra topic sai agree na karnai ki dhamki suno.....whatever merely to prohibit free speech. .........i think you only said this, didn't you ? i am sorry then i quoted someone else if it were not you! and under this expression of free speech i think everyone has right to express their point of views aswell within certain limits and in the decent form by no means humiliating and abusing others for expressing differently for the same thing , while posting a topic one should not expect that everyone is going to agree with what you say or talk about and echo the same thing if it's so then either we should not post any topic or we should be pre- prepaired and be open enough with our thoughts and mind to tolerate and accept others view and what others think about it.after all we come here to explore and widen our knowledge and thoughts with variety of other thoughts some wise some not that wise one and not to narrow our thinking for any particular matter.nobody likes to be compeled and forced to accept only _ your_ view.
ans yes one more thing talking different or against one or something doesn't mean that one is too progressive .would like to know what does that mean?..............The Jat regiment has the motto 'Jat balwan, Jat bhagwan', or so I heard. What other community would be so brash? There are many characteristics that are _unique_ to Jats............
bhai jat balwan aur jat bhagwan kai motto ka ya matlab to nahin hain ki sari takat aur bal hum appnai hi logon (jat community) pai dikhyan agar bhagwan ki baat kartai ho to bhagwan nain to kisi ko jatbirdari ka naam dai ka nahin pada kara tha !it has been done by people like you and me ........so why abuse humanity in total who are we to decide that so and so is good radiance and so and so is bad and rubbish....jat regiment ka motto ,kisi ko tuch samjho ya to nahin sekhata bhagwan kai liya to saab eek hain radiance ho chaha rubbish ho atleast this is the way few of us very wise people think so.
and one more thing those who don't talk for all these things don't you think and doesn't mean that they are the people who don't like all this and don't enjoy it , infact those who say they don't like all this so they don't care for it are the one who enjoys reading it the most,only few have the guts to speak for anything wrong,whereas some wait for the others to speak. what would you like to be?:)

Brij Dehiya (Aug 07, 2002 07:00 p.m.):
Tsk, tsk. Some 'progressives' here act like frightened children threatening lawsuits or whatever merely to prohibit free speech.
FYI, the original poster was well within her rights to post what she did. Her choice of words could've been better, but whatever gave you the idea that expressing views is 'illegal'?!!? Perhaps you project your own fears on others.
Jats are defined by a certain attitude towards life and its challenges. The Jat regiment has the motto 'Jat balwan, Jat bhagwan', or so I heard. What other community would be so brash? There are many characteristics that are _unique_ to Jats. Sikhism would never have made any big impact had Jats not joined the movement. To this day, Sikh Jats dominate Sikhism. Why, you would ask?
The answer is simple: As a culture, Jats are indoctrinated to avoid despair. Everything has a solution.
Would mixed marriages change that? Yes, they would, if the culture of the family deviates from the common points of the culture of the community.
If someone believes that arguing against mixed marriages means arguing against progress, well, I would not know what to say to such a person. Perhaps I will start another thread related to this topic later.

p.s. As for libel/slander, that's a joke in the land of KKK and Jerry Falwell (called Mohamed a pedophile I believe) / Pat Robertson (he calls Hindus 'demon worshippers'). Sheesh, people. Get a handle on yourselves!

rajeshsindhu
August 8th, 2002, 11:36 PM
Mansi:
You are doing a good job!!
keep it up.
-Rajesh

saurabhsaharan
August 9th, 2002, 03:42 AM
Banta Singh broke all rules and married Preeto who came from a different caste.

Banta and Preeto left on their honeymoon. When they got back, Preeto immediately called her mother.
Her mother asked, "How was the honeymoon?"
"Oh, mama," she replied, "the honeymoon was wonderful! So romantic..."
Suddenly she burst out crying. "But, mama, as soon as we returned Banta started using the most horrible language...things I`d never heard before!
I mean, all these awful 4-letter words! You`ve got to come get me and take me home.... Please mama!"
"Preeto, Preeto," her mother said, "calm down! Tell me, what could be so awful? What 4-letter words?"
"Please don`t make me tell you, mama," wept Preeto, "I`m so embarrassed they`re just too awful! Come get me, please!"
"You must tell me what has you so upset....Tell your mother these horrible 4-letter words!"
Still sobbing, Preeto said, "Oh, mama...words like DUST, WASH, IRON, COOK...!"

scsheorayan
August 9th, 2002, 07:12 AM
Mansi (Aug 08, 2002 10:02 a.m.):
Respected Shubha Chand ji
first of all this picture you had posted is very beautiful has nice colors ,clear and from good angel looks like a very professional photography!but your picture to is needed here on jatland for the wise guidence and will act a kind of self monitoring thing to others and thanks for your explanation on this topic surely it helps one, to atleast think in another way for the same thing, also may be what you said is right too.
though, most of it has been made clear by rajesh bhai too, that marriages are a social event in indian culture and especialy in jat culture... may be that is why we think more about society then about an individual. atlast one have to live with the society not with the individual:).........got it now!

Thanks Mansi,

Glad to be of help and you are always welcome ! Regarding photo I am still not sure whether it is a good idea. It all depends on one's way of thinking and I think Sarson ka khet is a better represetative Jat symbol than an old man's face dressed in western clothes, don't you agree?

shokeen123
August 9th, 2002, 07:57 AM
Shubha Chand Bhai:

I think it will still be a good idea to put your picture? If not in western clothes, may be in dhoti kurta, near a sarso ka khet? Mansi agrees with me too!

:-)

Sujata

rajeshsindhu
August 9th, 2002, 09:01 AM
Subha Chand Ji:
You don't need to put your lattest photo, pickup one of young age and put it here!!!
Why are you believing that people have put their lattest photo-:)

-Rajesh



Thanks Mansi,

Glad to be of help and you are always welcome ! Regarding photo I am still not sure whether it is a good idea. It all depends on one's way of thinking and I think Sarson ka khet is a better represetative Jat symbol than an old man's face dressed in western clothes, don't you agree?

mansi
August 9th, 2002, 09:14 AM
Respected Shubha Chand ji and Sujata di
i agree with you but if clothes were to define someone as jat then we are not at all jats may be we'll have to leave our trouser and shirt and start wearing daman,kurta with chundri and joti with kdoli to prove that we are jat so i think it will be a nice idea to put your picture back on forum as it is , becuase it is the inner qualities,thoughts and the heart of the person that matters in defining one as jat or kind of human being one is not ones apparels .clothes do matter to know someone at first instance but not to define someone in total.so i believe one's apparel are not everything to know whether he/she is jat or not ,then it doesn't matter what clothes we wear eastern or western or what ever
BE JAT BY HEART!
and that you are !and we all are too hope so:-)

mansi
August 9th, 2002, 09:19 AM
i agree with Rajesh bhai ,this is also a great idea:-)
[quote]Rajesh Sindhu (Aug 08, 2002 11:31 p.m.):
Subha Chand Ji:
You don't need to put your lattest photo, pickup one of young age and put it here!!!
Why are you believing that people have put their lattest photo-:)

-Rajesh

scsheorayan
August 9th, 2002, 10:35 AM
Well if you feel that way then I may put back the current photo as before. Would not want to mislead any one with young face and old heart. Clothes don't matter really. Good week end every one. There is no doubt about any one being less or more of a Jat, name of the site confirms that.

amitdahiya
August 10th, 2002, 06:56 PM
Dear Mansi and Sujata
The motto of the Jat regiment is "Jat Balwaan Jai Bhagwaan" and not Jat Balwan jat bhagwan" They say that locals at Kargil can still sometimes hear the batle cry of the valiant Jats who took Kargil and many of whom fell there still echoing in the Mountains. True or not let us at least get it right. Just for your information please.
Regards
Amit Dahiyabadshah

mansi
August 10th, 2002, 07:32 PM
Dear Brother Amit
you are more then 120%+(can add any more % you want to it) right ,but badshah bhai please read these entire pages and topic twice and carefully to know exactly and correctly about who is talking what and in which context and then tell who is saying it wrong and who is talking right:-)and i personaly had never used this jat motto logo anywhere and in any form neither in this topic nor anywhere else!
Amit Dahiya (Delhi) (Aug 10, 2002 09:26 a.m.):
Dear Mansi and Sujata
The motto of the Jat regiment is "Jat Balwaan Jai Bhagwaan" and not Jat Balwan jat bhagwan" They say that locals at Kargil can still sometimes hear the batle cry of the valiant Jats who took Kargil and many of whom fell there still echoing in the Mountains. True or not let us at least get it right. Just for your information please.
Regards
Amit Dahiyabadshah

shokeen123
August 11th, 2002, 01:14 AM
Amit Dahiya (Delhi) (Aug 10, 2002 09:26 a.m.):
Dear Mansi and Sujata
The motto of the Jat regiment is "Jat Balwaan Jai Bhagwaan" and not Jat Balwan jat bhagwan" Amit Dahiyabadshah

Well well well... now ain't I dealing with enough already? Why has my name been dragged in the "Jat Regiment" logo feud...? I may have mentioned about the social issues surrounding Jat soldier widows, but have not used the logo in any of my comments?

Nevertheless, I would prefer this any time, to the otherwise ongoing squabble on Jat serum concentration!

Not at all a bad diversion for the topic...

Thanks!

Sujata

mansi
August 11th, 2002, 02:23 AM
Sujata di
yoha to main badshah bhai nai kahun so kai bahi nain tagaja tain padtai hi reply da diya laga hai pura topic aur sari replys nahin padi bas mahrai badai badai reply aa dakha ar bas waha paad ka bhai na tola sa yo jawab likh diya !jadai Amit bhai sahi admi tei quote karn ki bajaya galti tain(laga to esa aa sai)mahra ti kah gaya:-)

abhishek
August 15th, 2002, 07:32 PM
come to europe,..... I don't think any indian community can claim to be as progressive as them and they don't like to marry outside their
society
i think i have made my point
think.......

amitdahiya
August 20th, 2002, 07:39 PM
Dear Mansi Ram Ram
Iam sorry if I got it wrong but surely post Number31 on this topic has been addressed by you to Brij(?). Sujata too has used the same quote wrongly and I know what a stickler for detail she is through hermany readable posts. All I have tried to do is put the record straight on a small but important matter. So what if it happened inadvertently in your name surely the info was worth it. I know its not much of a gift since its almost Rakhi but surely the simple truthful fact is not a bad gift from a humble brother to a sister so special as you are.
Rakhi Greetings and Good wishes
Amit Dahiyabadshah


Mansi (Aug 10, 2002 04:36 p.m.):
Dear Brother Amit
you are more then 120%+(can add any more % you want to it) right ,but badshah bhai please read these entire pages and topic twice and carefully to know exactly and correctly about who is talking what and in which context and then tell who is saying it wrong and who is talking right:-)and i personaly had never used this jat motto logo anywhere and in any form neither in this topic nor anywhere else!
Amit Dahiya (Delhi) (Aug 10, 2002 09:26 a.m.):
Dear Mansi and Sujata
The motto of the Jat regiment is "Jat Balwaan Jai Bhagwaan" and not Jat Balwan jat bhagwan" They say that locals at Kargil can still sometimes hear the batle cry of the valiant Jats who took Kargil and many of whom fell there still echoing in the Mountains. True or not let us at least get it right. Just for your information please.
Regards
Amit Dahiyabadshah

mansi
August 21st, 2002, 07:22 PM
HELLO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
DID SOMEBODY STARTED THE LIE DETECTOR FACILITY HERE AND HAD ALREADY GIVEN ME ONE OF THIS LIE DETECTOR TEST . AND I COULDN'T KNOW IT !WOW!!!:-)

SOMEBODY:-???? NEEDS HELP HERE URGENTLY!:O

TWINKLE TWINKLE LITTLE :-????
HOW I WOUNDER WHAT YOU ARE :-????
UP ABOVE THERE SO HIGH :-????
LIKE A :-???? IN THE SKY :-????

BY THE WAY MANSI IS NOT INTERESTED IN THIS THREAD AND TOPIC ANYMORE NOW, BYE! :-D

shokeen123
August 21st, 2002, 07:26 PM
In that case Mansi,

The humor section is currently featuring Mirza Galib Shayari Haryanvi style, courtesy, Ajay Nehra, Pradeep Rathee etc. etc.......

take a look.....

:-D

Sujata

shamsher
September 1st, 2002, 04:37 PM
i happen to be quite an infrequent visitor to the site..though regular.i was just chechin out the enteries that were the most replied ones....and i landed up on this whirpool of opinions and emotions.it is so surprising that we have so much time for such things to think about..and here is some one who goes public.i think there are a lot many better things to do to improve the lineage than to preserve the gene pool....though it may finally figure in the list of many of us.it is a wrong string to be picked up.I think it would be better if we developed an evolved species rather than a bunch of pure line tribesmen.