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sansanwalamit
January 11th, 2003, 08:43 AM
hello to all,
here are some typical signs that a jat family is "modern"-
-Haryanvi is avoided especially in presence of others......instead of haryanvi they talk in a weird mixture of hindi and english.....in which sentences go like .....
*tera LEG mere Hand ko TOUCH kar rhyaa hai.
*beta DONT DO shararat.
*beta MILK FINISH karo jaldi.
-forget being called babu aur pitajee aur even papa .....DAD aur DADDY is teh buzzword....beleive me guys I have actually seen people adopting DAD instead of papa when they are "DADS" themselves.
-lady of the house would definitley have a very short haircut i.e called "boycut" in coloquial terms......phenomena most abundant among army wives and women from cities of Haryana, and most absent in delhi villages(villagers what do they know)
-eating habits also switch over from food from the land to, Non Vegetarian, "punjabi" cusine served in "punjabi" style and none knows what is "choorma", "Raabdi", "Seet and my favourite "baajre ki kheechdee"(now if u dont know what are these then congrats you are modern)
-"gaam ki dharti" is addressed as farmhouse ....man even farm would do ......but what can one do farmhouse sounds modern not land or farm......
-Chaudhary aur Singh is used instead of the real surname.......
-thats it now cant think of anymore .....
so guys these are just the differences i witnessed in people, I am just trying to put forward what i feel .....I am not being judgemental.....and not even subtle offensive.....what i would like you to do is add some more points in this list so that everyone enjoys reading these and learns how to be modern and walk neck to neck with punjabees and others around......
thank you for reading.

anilsangwan
January 11th, 2003, 06:05 PM
Bahoot Badhiya Amit Bhai!
Want to Hear from you at my mail id:
anilsangwan@yahoo.com

anurag
January 12th, 2003, 06:09 AM
Hi Amit,

You have raised some valid points out here, but personally I feel that you have taken a very extreme view of the situation. The extreme examples (like the DAD one) you have quoted are there no doubt. But what i personally feel is that they are not the norm, there number is limited. Let us consider the british rule. Even at that point of time there were people who had fully adopted the british "pahnawa" etc. So exceptions are always there and will be.

In case of food habbits, let us analyze the situation with logic and not emotions. Most of the people whom you might be talking of are living in say metros or highly developed cities. In these cities like Noida, Delhi, Bombay, etc I cannot imagine having access to "Mahains" baandhna. And availability of bajre ka atta, seet, nooni ghee is limited or non-existent. In such a situation how can I expect people living there to maintain these food habbit. Er bhai ek aur baat, apne parents/grand parents itna ghee khaaya karte jitna mein soch bhee nahin sakta. With the change in type of jobs, the metabolism also changes. Meri job poora din baith ke kaam karne ki thee, khet mein hal chalaan ki nahin. In such case there was no physical labour required. If I would have started consuming the same amounts of ghee, aaj mein 100-150 kilo ke wazan ka to ho hi jaata. So with the change in working conditions, halka sa to bhai khaane ka badlaaw howaiga. Er bhai jib bhee gaam mein jaaya karoon, gantha roti, nooni ghee, seet, baajre ki khichdi sab ka sawaad liya karoon.

As far as haircut of females is concerned, my viewpoint is that consider yourself first: Do any of us males insist ourselves on wearing jooti, khandwa, dhoti and kurta - No, not even in traditional ceremonies. In such a scenario how can we say that women should not have freedom to dress up as they want to or have a "boycut" for that matter.

In case of language, I think all of us would agree that other than jats nobody likes to hear Jaatu or appreciates Jaatu. In professional world all these other kaums like punjabis and baniyas rise in their careers by what we call "boss ki gailyaan meethe ban kai". That's pretty much what we have to adopt as well at times, specially in public gathering/offices. All the same I agree ki ghar pe we can and rather should use our own mother tongue Jaatu.

So these are my views on the issues highlighted by you.

-Anurag

akdabas
January 12th, 2003, 07:37 AM
Bhot serious aur lamba topic se bhai yo te.

I think it all depends on the individual view what he thinks is the correct.

Cheers,

artikundu
January 12th, 2003, 09:27 AM
well said.i appreciate ur views.even this remembers me of saying-survival of the fittest and change is rule of nature.






quote]Ashok Kumar Dabas (Jan 11, 2003 09:07 p.m.):
Bhot serious aur lamba topic se bhai yo te.

I think it all depends on the individual view what he thinks is the correct.

Cheers,[/quote]

anurag
January 12th, 2003, 09:42 AM
Ashok bhaisahab aapki baat se bilkul sehmat hoon mein bhee and my point of view was that an "individual choice" is based on the circumstances that he/she is facing :)

-Anurag


Ashok Kumar Dabas (Jan 11, 2003 09:07 p.m.):
Bhot serious aur lamba topic se bhai yo te.

I think it all depends on the individual view what he thinks is the correct.

Cheers,

sansanwalamit
January 12th, 2003, 11:22 AM
Greetings
the matter isnt serious these are just my personal views that a Jat has become modern ........here I am surely talking about the people who live in cities....and I am truly not being judgemental.....I am not saying whats right or whats wrong .....I am just mentioning the changes that "modernism" brings....now to make the matter "serious" I would just say that its not what is done that matters ....rather how it is done........
I totally agree that food habits do change ..so did mine ....but I have actually witnessed teenagers not even knowing about what Bajra is .....nooni ghee forget it ....even if they eat it they call it makkhan......now all I am saying is if you eat "city" food then why should you forget (or not take ahead) the food that your generations ate.........and you should not even change its name (people call seet lassi nowdays ......thats what i think the problem is )
-when it comes to language, I do not take it as symbolism of modernism....rather its just a medium , and one should use the one which can be understood by most in a particular surrounding....but my eyebrows raise over the point when people in India take it as a sign of being modern( yes they dooooo) ....and what is better ....to speak one language in correct manner or making a salsa of two or three with a heavy accented tone....especially in front of those who do not even speak it ......and all the examples I gave were related to homes not workplaces ......
-using Dad well I felt so personnaly as I did see people changing the termonolgy myself .....well i think i did go on to extremes with this one....
-now haircuts....I truly dunno why it is so .....but only in cities of haryana and army wives I found this "boycut" phenomena.....I truly believe in annarchy when it comes to making choices regarding ones looks....but having the attitude of flaunting your choice over others or thinking that you are more modern then others just by the choice you made is a put down with me ......both men and women have their own choices .....and one should respect those.What happens to choices when a woman with such a haircut goes to her own village and roams around in front of those elderly people who choose that women should cover their hair ...... please dont get me wrong over this one(I certainly do not have such a choice) all these are choices what I have and you have and the woman with haircut has and so does the village elderly......( and I bet we all have witnesssed such a thing happening once in our lifetime)
and by the way ......"punjaaabee" food is more fattening then all the food items mentioned in this post so far combined....and Ghee is the only one which even modern people use(taken ahead).....
and I would just like to say that I started this post for the purpose of knowing evryones experiances regarding this modernisms ...which I mentioned before but as the purpose has changed I would just like to ask why these points sound closer to vanity then to a lifestyle.........I would again quote these are reflections of what I have witnessed and this modernism has actually become a charecterstic of a specific part of our population and we all know people like these dont we ......thus if you can answer why it happens I would appreciate it .....and your other views are more then welcome here ...and surely the experiances
thank you for reading again

vivek
January 13th, 2003, 12:31 AM
A leading thinker (I think it was Einstein) said that human intelligence is revealed in a particular individual to adapt to an alien situation and succeed. Now, using Haryanvi in a rural setting might be just fine, but using it in a corporate setting will not get you anywhere, but rather reinforce the cliches about you.

sansanwalamit
January 13th, 2003, 03:53 AM
I am not saying use haryanvi ......all I am saying whatever language you use use it nicely in any setting ......do not mix them up coz that spoils the beauty of a language .....doent it ...

anurag
January 13th, 2003, 03:56 AM
Amit this point is 100% valid. And in that matter what i would say is that mixing of hindi & english to make what we usually call "Hinglish" is more popular than haryanvi with some other language.

vivek
January 13th, 2003, 05:49 AM
In India, its always the vogue of the educated to speak in english in business settings. As a result, most people are bilingual. When this happens, its a natural progression for a 'khichidi' (my own hinglish attempt) language to appear. In the US, the Creole language in the South-east is the product of this. In South America, Spanish has been corrupted by local native american vocabulary. Its a natural progression of things....and that's why we have differing languages that are interconnected. Urdu is nothing more than a product of this mishmap...using persian vocabulary with hindi grammar.

rsdalal
January 13th, 2003, 06:12 AM
Intersting topic,

sansanwalamit
January 13th, 2003, 06:41 AM
well said Mr Vivek, certainly a nice analogy of "hinglish" with creole and Urdu.....offcourse languages change and mix up with each other.....but here I am talking about even "hinglish" gone wrong ....if yuo read the examples I gave on the top ......you will find that they are delibrate attempts of puttting english words in a sentence.....and as u said its a vogue in India(i would say only India coz if you see carribean Indians they still speak their eastern hindi dialects even after centuries of being away form india bravooo) then I guess everyone wants to ride the bus.......but the problem doesnt end by riding the bus .....I mean what jatness we see in ourselves I mean if you look at other communities....they are carrying their culture forward very nicley and we arent doing so ......if i ask a general question to myself and others that what makes me a jat or whats the jatness in me......it would be difficult to answer ..I mean my family is engadged in a different profession which is non-jat ........i do not live in my villlage not even in my country...i do not dresss up like that....and now if i even forget my language just to join the vogue or wont let my kids know about it ....then aint i being the Weakest link ......we do not have many similarities with our ancestors ...but atleast what we can keep and carry on we shudl do so.....I wouldnt ask someone to make choice of speaking haryanvi everywhere ...but in sections where you can plzzzz do so ....and to all te parents ....Plzzzz talk to your kids in Haryanvi .....if not then atleast not hinglish ...hindi or english.......I would ask ladies to atleast just cover their hair (just cover) only in front of those who would like it .....thats what you call courtsey of choice not exploitation or sexism.....I would ask everyone to do as much as or as little as connection with the ancestors coz "we are the only prooof of their existence" if we go different ways then the link would break ......I hope I am making sense here ......

akdalal
January 13th, 2003, 09:52 AM
I am of the view that Jats know english and hindi and other languages very well, but whatever language they speak, the haryanavi TONE always remains, which I feel is not liked by many here (as I hv judged by reading everybody's comments here).

When a sardar speaks english, when an NRI speaks english we dont's listen to their language, we listen to their TONE instead and is liked by many of us. If this is so then why we don't like the TONE of haryanavi english?

Moreover Jats are trying to change themselves with time. The need of present time is english and computer knowledge. Because of this the Jat families started practising english at home and believe me its good as ghar ke mahol me hi bachha seektha hai.

I personally feel that it should be encouraged.

As far as the hair cut is concerned its personal liking haence no comment on it.

Jatni koi bhe hair style apn le wa pher be sherni (jatni) hi ravegi. (LOL).

Bhai Anurag, main bhe gantha roti aue seeth khaya karoon jib bhe gaon jaun soo.

Cheers!

sansanwalamit
January 13th, 2003, 10:41 AM
well.....
as far as accents are concerned ...I must say that it again depends from person to person ........infact if you look it geographically then the people who lie in the belt of "khadi" boli( I dunno if it is called Khadi for sure) tend to get more accent ....and people who speak different haryanvi say brij(faridabad and UP) and rewari side do not tend to get the accent .....and there is nothing wrong in having accents everyone has got thgeir own accents ...and how does it matter if someone likes or dislikes your accent you shoudl just speak .....what one should keep in mind is you speak a language correctly or do not mix it up ....I think language has really beocme imporatnt issue in here ...well i am sensitive about it coz that one jatness I have that I carry withme anywhere ...I thank the surroundings of my growing up coz they taught me hard core haryanvi.......hindi and english ......and its right that kids learn at home but one should teach them right unlike
"beta SEE paani HOT hai yaa COLD hai and the kid answers thanda hai....what is that....
Whenever I see some of the jat kids and cousins in India who just cannot even speak haryanvi ....now why is that ...coz there folks didnt think it was of any use ....and now they broke the link didnt they......infact this epidemic has already spread everywhere .....
now what should be done about it ?

uday
January 13th, 2003, 02:57 PM
Add on :-

Some one raised a question around 2 months back here only... that in Punjabi marriage.. Ladies loves to wear Punjabi dresses.. same in other also.........

WHY JAT women does not wear DAMMAN atleast in marriages...

sansanwalamit
January 13th, 2003, 07:50 PM
the answer is coz its not modern.....its rather outdated a symbolism of one's village roots....thus no jat women wears daaman....forget about wearing damman ...on the weddings they wouldnt even sing haryanvee songs instead sing bollywood songs and if asked to sing they will swear their lives on not knowing any haryaanvee songs.....and this all is done to just walk neck to neck with tehir neighbors Mrs. Kapoor, Mrs. Gupta Mrs. Malhotra and all.......and thus the jatni gets kicked out of their lives and comes in neither here nor there Mrs. Chaudhary.