Jats in OBC list !!#@!!

[shekhar_nehra]

My dear fellow Jat members one question that comes to my mind often is that is it right to include jats in OBC (Other Backward Classes) list as it has been done in some states like UP , Rajasthan etc . Will this inclusion in Reservation Category help our community to gain any thing? Are we prepared for this? Is it the only way we can uplift our community? or Will it not be validation of our projected image that we are backward and semi barbaric , and moreover after this kind of inclusion, will we able to ever come out of this IMAGE, once formed. What about our pride will it get enhanced by this?
Is it fair to lower the barrier than to prepare ourselves to jump higher? Can we make a compromise of this kind?


I would like you all to express your views on this issue . So that we can form a consensus, or at least be aware of merits and demerits of this Inclusion into OBC's list.

[gajeshd]

Bhai Shekhar,

You have raised quite an important issue. Yo mamla essa se na hasya jata na roya jata.

At first instance the reservation in admissions, jobs and promotions based on caste is disputable. Personally I do not agree to it. I beleive

1.The only basis of providing state/ Govt.
support should be financial condition of the
subject irrespective of caste/class.

We all know (reserved quota) politicians,
beurocrats, others who are well of than any
Aggarwal, Brahminor Jat due to reservation
or otherwise why the hell their next
generation needs it.

2. No reservations in admissions,
appointments, and promotions.

3. Help as much as they need financially, facility wise the poor ones to prepare for the
competition that’s it.

4. Now as regards issue of including Jats in OBC, as far as I am informed the
financial and social status of most of the Jats in Rajasthan is no better then and
backward class. So if they get it I think it should help them.(again as said earlier the
basis is financial not caste).

5. Some how I won’t feel good if I am categorized as BC or OBC. That is the voice of
blood in us Jats.

6. All these issues whether of language, caste, class, or water, should have been positive matters but the politicians have exploited them to best of their interests to get
chair and remain in chair.

[uday]

An Berojgaar JAT PERSON could answer it properly...

usse pucchoo jisne nokree ke liya Jutey ghisa diye...

[shekhar_nehra]

Bhai Gajesh ,
Thank you for your constructive inputs. They really bring out the message loud and clearly. I agree with you on making economic condition as a criteria for reservations.

Bhai Uday,
I would have been pleased if you would have added more and given your personal opinion and thinking that goes behind your stand rather than making a remark about that person "Jisne Jutey ghisa diye.."

Well I would like to make one point here .
In addition to make economic condition as a Reservation Criteria , it could be limited to just one generation. So that the person who avails this facility acts more responsibly and educates his children.
Reservation should not add to the already laid back attitude of the coming Jat Generations from the jat belt. I find the essence of post by Punam Deswal ji in response to the post "JATS - Still need to do a lot." as a prevention for the need of reservation in our community.

I would like more members to come up with their views on this issue, as it directly involves all of us.
Remember the aim is not to divide the community into two
- One in favour of Reservation without realizing the drawbacks associated with it and
- The other against Reservation without knowing how it can be used efficiently.

Aim is to analyse the situation.

[punam]

I believe capability should be assigned greater merit rather than issues being decided on the basis of which caste one belongs to. There are well-off people in all castes and communities. And then, there are poor people in all communities. According to me, there are only two classes in India, the haves and have-nots.

Imagine the frustration and disappointment of a deserving candidate who doesn't belong to the caste enjoying reservation but who has burnt midnight oil for any said post. Aren't we stoking the already widespread resentment prevailing in our system? On the other hand, if an undeserving candidate begets something, would it not affect the productivity of the country. And hence starts the vicious cycle.

There are poor people in every community. People of every caste and community are dying due to deprivation across India. If reservations could really work wonders, things should have been different after 55 yrs. of independence. Are they? Every community belongs to the same country and those who do not are also here to stay. We can't wish them away. Real upliftment can be achieved only if we grow as a country. How can u be happy if there is misery all around?

Economic condition of a candidate should be the sole criteria for granting concessions...but even for that, there has to be a minimum cut-off. (Education in India is already heavily subsidised. Maybe, that's why we take it so lightly!)The number of jobs would anyway stay the same in the state. The focus should be on creating more opportunities. That is what we should fight for. After that, one should channelise his/her energies on acquiring the right skills. And its high time that we started looking beyond "sarkari naukris".

Reservations were originally meant to provide equal opportunity to the down-trodden. But have they achieved the purpose so far? In fact, they have created more imbalance and resentment than the overall good they would have done.

In fact, all kinds of freebies should be withdrawn except for deserving quarters.

Last but not the least, I for one do not feel helpless and would detest if somebody called jats a backward class.

[shokeen123]

This topic keeps circulating under many headings, but here again is my response...

I have reviewed most of the comments here, some in favor, others downright against, and yet some, like myself, somewhere in the middle. Because I have not been able to take a stand either way, I am simply posting some thoughts.

In the last few decades, countries as diverse as Australia, South Africa, and United States, have introduced policies of positive discrimination. The aim of such policies is to reduce inequalities of so-called historically disadvantaged groups, and fulfill the constitutional commitment to democracy and equality, so that the oppressed can acquire access to education, employment and scarce resources.

Agreed, positive discrimination does works towards building a democratic, egalitarian and humane social order, but conversely, by institutionalizing affirmative action in favor of any one group, the government effectively discriminates against others, alienates them, feeds their sense of grievance and can contribute to a growing militancy without necessarily helping the most needy. Affirmative action in general is often counterproductive. Preferential policies foster the values of solidarity based on the cult of victim hood-instead of thrift, hard work, and self- improvement.

Then again, within the "disadvantaged" groups receiving preferential treatment, benefits are captured by the better educated, more articulate and more politically skilled elite. Although the programs are meant to reduce intergroup disparities, the group leaders become dependent on the perpetuation of perceived disparities.

Furthermore, the disadvantaged groups in India are vastly heterogeneous. First of all the Constitution places the two most disadvantaged sections, (ST), and (ST) in the higher footing than the others as far as the affirmative action in concerned. Both are entitled to representation in all legislatures in proportion to their numbers/jobs in the government, and admission to educational institutions, both at the central government and the states. Priority is accorded them over the, Other Backward Class" (OBCs), in accessing benefits.

The OBCs themselves are not homogeneous category. At one end are the dominant, landowning castes who own a sizable amount of land available locally, are politically influential, and are increasingly represented in the govt., while, at the other end are numerically small artisanal, laboring, and servicing castes, more entitled to the benefits and concessions which the dominant castes are receiving. Once again, this perception is bound to play in favor of the latter, than the former.

Reservation is a paradoxical situation where, on the one hand, govt. tries to diminish the importance of such caste attributes as untouchability, and low social status by way of reservations, while on the other hand, it lends official recognition to caste as the criteria for eligibility. In this way, reservations have created a vested interest in the survival of caste. Over forty years, after the formal abolition of caste, caste is more alive than ever in India!

While positive discrimination in India has had considerable success, both, symbolically, and substantially, it has its negative side. First of all, there has been too much reliance on "reservation" per se, and it has not been supplemented by attempts to train the targeted beneficiaries to actually benefit from access. Even more importantly, the failure to universalize the primary education, in spite of the existence of a constitutional directive to achieve it.

Because I don't know the exact provisions for Jats as OBCs, I am unable to decipher the relevance. If it renders no tangible gains to Jats, and allows discrimination within the OBC sub-groups, my biggest fear is that the truly needy may not benefit from this controversial policy. On the contrary, it may be the only national level policy that will prove as a viable option for the Jats to change their status quo.

**Still not decided, however, I am leaning more in favor, not from the ideological point of view, but as a last resort to change the status quo...

[shokeen123]

Please also read this thread under another topic (Reservation: Do we need or not?) for many more views.

[sweet]

i dont understand, or i think i'll never be able to understand, that on wat bases these all reservations r there in our country,

i dont think there should be any reservations, for caste, creed etc., i mean wat the hell is this that a competition exams are same for everyone, but due reservation, who secure only 20%, get the admission, who secure 80% cudnt get it, then where is the future of our students.......where is the future of our nation,

ya, this is very right that the if there shud be reservation then that shud be on the bases of financial conditions,

otherwise, " aise hi hamare desh ke intelligent people others countries mein jate rahinge, aur hamare desh ko ye anpad , ganwar aur politics, kha jayegi, kaccha aur dakar bhi nahi legi"

if we wanna save our coming generation future, then we shud take a step, ..........................
good luck to all of us..........

India really needs improvment.

[rkumar]

I posted my views on 'Jats and Highre education" Not many seem to have read and reacted to what I said.. Would request you all to read what i posted...

Rajendra

[sansanwalamit]

all these are politicla games according to me coz I remember Jats of delhi getting into OBC list now someone explain me why delhi Jats out of all the people......we do not need any .....I mean we should be the last ones to get it and I havent seen anyone making any use of it anyways, thus I guess these are more like political games played by politicians and they rarely do any good for common masses ....thus it really doesnt matter if we are in the list or not

[navingulia]

Reservation in jobs is meaningless. There is no reservation in Defence forces thats why they perform well. Only merit should count. We should promote education culture in Jatland. Reservation is only political gimmik. Opportunity to study and opportunity to perform is important, no reservation is required.