The American Dream !!!

[palsaniya]

I wanted to write this email for quite sometime. But
kept putting it off but finally decided to just sit
down and get it done over with. This email will be a
honest review of the present economic conditions and
job opportunities in USA for Indian students (read
IITians) I will fully touch upon the present life of
Indians in general and IITians in particular in USA.
A lot of the treatment will NOT be my opinion but
based on my numerous IIT and non-IIT friends in USA
who have been here ranging from the last five to
just a year.

IT/Software is down and out in USA. Unless you are a
CS/Information System grad, you can never hope to
"even compete in applying" for a software job. Your
resume will simply not be accepted. I attended the
career fairs here and the software situation is
bleak. Just yesterday one of my seniors from IIT was
given the pink slip. There is a glut in the
software/systems market now. There are more
professionals than jobs. And no new radical
technology is foreseen for the next few months at
least which can shore up demand for workers (I am
saying that there is nothing radically new like
Java, etc which can generate demand requiring a new
skill set)

Next, because of the recent terrorist attacks, there
is a marked animosity towards foreigners in general.
Employers are reluctant to recruit or even take
foreigners for practical training. For example, I
met the recruiters of Booz-Allen and Hamilton and
IBM today and they confessed that they would double
check before recruiting international students.
Quite a few of my friends from Texas, Austin and
other places are contemplating returning home to
India because of the job crunch. Many of them are
finishing their Masters by December or have already
finished it. They are just hanging around till the
term of their student visa expires. IITians in USA
are now so desperate for jobs that they are even
applying for GE, Bangalore and other Indian
companies like Infosys.

The situation in traditional engineering is also no good. Nobody respects just a Masters anymore (Note:
I have talked in detail about this to many people
all over USA here and these are NOT just my
observations) Unless you are a PhD (doesn't matter
which univ, you just need a doctorate) technical
jobs will be hard to come by. If you have a PhD,
employers would take you but then getting a PhD in
life is a BIG decision and a commitment for minimum
four years (I have seen guys literally cursing their
PhD advisors here.) Take my word. Doing a PhD
changes you as a person. Also, since a PhD is a long
time frame, lots of changes in economy will take
place by then. Nobody can predict what can happen a
year down the line. But it seems clear that WORK IS
MOVING OUT OF USA. Especially in software where they
are outsourcing all the work to developing
countries. This was evident from a series of
editorials about the economic condition in USA
newspapers. Even technical work like engineering design, simulation etc (all those work where the end
product can be transmitted in bits across the net)

Not only that. Any cheap good which you come across
in USA, from scissors to watches to shoes to
microwave etc., every such item is manufactured in
china. You will see Made in China labels in almost
all common products. I went to buy a pillow in the
supermarket. It said "Made in India; Packaged
proudly in New Jersey, USA" I felt like banging my
head in desperation.

You will hardly come across a cheap product which is
actually made in USA. What I am trying to say is
that the manufacturing base in USA is dwindling very
fast. The rate has increased further in the last few
years. SO if you are trying for a job here, your
work should be that of a cerebral professional, who
is given a job based on his knowledge, technical
acumen and not based on the market condition. What I
say is that you should get a job because you are
well qualified and you will be an asset to the
company in the long term, not because the company
has a need for skills in the short term and they
want to fill it up as soon as possible. All such
jobs are cut when the going gets tough, as it has
happened now. The software industry is a prime
example. Note the difference between the words
"knowledge" and "skill". Knowing 'fracture analysis'
is knowledge but being conversant with Database
Administration in SQL is just a skill. Most Indian
students in USA live a desperate life (new comers to
USA will contest this statement of mine, but leave
them aside, they are yet to gain experience !)

There are two categories of IITians in USA. 1) The
"Muggu" kind, who is intent on doing his PhD and
research, cares a damn about jobs and is finally
looking at a teaching position in an university. He
is introvert and keeps to himself 2) The second one
is the freaku kind, who does just enough work to
please his guide, is actively looking around for a
job (and does not get any in this present situation)
Having squandered his paycheck in buying a car and
travel trips within USA, this is a panchi who> realizes that he is sticking to his Univ because he
does not have any choice in life.

The harsh reality is that non-IITian desis are much
more clueless than IITians. At least IITians have
the confidence to talk and walk their way through
while non-IITians are a confused lot. Let me tell
you. The exposure which we got in IIT is a lesson
for us all for life. It makes a difference. Many
non-IITians who came in here during the peak boom of
student visas to USA from India are now holed up in
sidey research work, are being laid off or just
barely managing to make their end meet by enrolling
again in the Univ mostly by extending their thesis
work.

The future promises to be VERY difficult, at least
for the next one full year. Despite all talk of
economic recovery, the stock market is going down
everyday. Even if the recovery starts tomorrow, it
will be many months before the situation is felt in the recruiting process. With war seemingly imminent
in the near future, all money is being channelised
into war efforts. This country has surely gone into
recession, a period of negative economic growth.
Contrary to popular beliefs, college is not a safe
haven to be in this economic condition. Unless you
are well entrenched with an assured assistantship,
things are difficult. Many Americans who are laid
off are coming back to college. Eg. I am teaching a
50 year old man Advanced Heat Transfer in my
lectures. I see working professionals coming back to
college. In one of the courses I attend, half the
men are bald.

Also, the student community has been invaded by
Chinese. We Indians have built up a bad reputation
for NOT doing our PhDs in spite of promising the
professors that we would when we join. But the
Chinese work hard and a majority of them go on to
complete their PhDs even if it takes 5 or more
years. I was talking to a Chinese who did his PhD
for 6 long years and then joined here as a post-doc.
Most Indians don't have that kind of commitment to
research.

In short, all that I am trying to say is this.

Take a deep look at your life. Ask yourself whether
you really want to spend the next 2 to 5 years of
your life in an university with little or no freedom
(I will write in detail about this freedom aspect
later) Ask yourself whether you want to do an MS/PhD
because you are interested in research or because
you want to come to USA ? And then decide whether to
app and come to USA. Mind you, life in USA sucks.
Contrary to what people would say from here, take my
word. It sucks big-time.

Material comforts in life doesn't make one happy. I
would infinitely prefer having coffee any day with
Mipa, Sastry, DC and all of you sitting in IIT
coffee shop rather than sipping star bucks here with
shallow surface talk with highly individualistic
guys here.

One big thing I found in USA is that hardly have
IITians made any new long lasting friendships here
even after staying many years. Most of the still
existing friendships are those which have been made
long back at IIT or India. People here prize
privacy, individualism ...yada..yada...It is
difficult to expect other people to help you.
Everything happens here in a clinical professional
way. In short, it sucks .

cheers

regards
ram

[sindhu]

Hi ,

I simply donot agree with this. This is a narrow sphere of affairs you are talking about. If you want to excell and rise. US has more opportunities to offer than any other place at present situation. Whether it is technical, professional or commercial. ( though some isolated examples may be otherwise). Though India seem to be a better place for software development due to cheap infrastructure and technical manpower, but if you want to get profit, you have to design and market it in western world.

Dear friend visit other countries, see situation there before you comment.

One has to be resourceful and focused. Some times one can get quick rise to set an example but not all the time. This is what makes people think,it is no more good.


[quote]R. C. PALSANIYA (Dec 07, 2003 11:37 a.m.):
I wanted to write this email for quite sometime. But
kept putting it off but finally decided to just sit
down and get it done over with. This email will be a
honest review of the present economic conditions and
job opportunities in USA for Indian students (read
IITians) I will fully touch upon the present life of

[ugehlot]

only one comment....the chinese suck in english and by the time they learn the language....it is time for their thesis completion..........
....one more thing....we all owe a lot to our country....so where ever we are we should do the best we can to make sure that we give our country the rightful share...

[ugehlot]

one more thing situation is not the same what it was few years back...when iitians were picked straight from campus....

[palsaniya]

Hello Sindhu ji,

plz don't take it intentionally just i m telling according to our seniors opinion, coz such topics we have to disscuss in IIT Events with our many seniors.
n i hv many friends in all IITs they also were very much excited for apping in first year but in final year nowadyas they are not thinking bout apping...
n it depends on individual's opinion....

N regarding some other countries i think u hv heard that what is happening with Indians which should not be happen....is it??






A S Sindhu (Dec 07, 2003 12:22 p.m.):
Hi ,

I simply donot agree with this. This is a narrow sphere of affairs you are talking about. If you want to excell and rise. US has more opportunities to offer than any other place at present situation. Whether it is technical, professional or commercial. ( though some isolated examples may be otherwise). Though India seem to be a better place for software development due to cheap infrastructure and technical manpower, but if you want to get profit, you have to design and market it in western world.

Dear friend visit other countries, see situation there before you comment.

One has to be resourceful and focused. Some times one can get quick rise to set an example but not all the time. This is what makes people think,it is no more good.


[quote]R. C. PALSANIYA (Dec 07, 2003 11:37 a.m.):
I wanted to write this email for quite sometime. But
kept putting it off but finally decided to just sit
down and get it done over with. This email will be a
honest review of the present economic conditions and
job opportunities in USA for Indian students (read
IITians) I will fully touch upon the present life of

[bnashier]

The crazy so-called IT boom of the late 90's has died as does everything else in due course. History shows that these phenomena occur everywhere. The supply had reached a peak due to inflated demand some 3-4 years ago, and it has to slowly get back to normal. This process will take its own time.

Life in US is exciting as ever. This is a place where the bright can make a dream come true, a mediocre can have a decent life, and a much less than average can do just fine. The US has an enormous amount of resources which can support its population for ever. The US population increase primarily due to immigration which can be controlled. Thus this country is in a fine shape.

Material comforts in life may not make one happy; but then taking baths in Ganges does not guarantee peace either. Don't be discourged by all those doom and gloom stories.

[anilkc]

US has the resources and opportunities not found in any other country. But everyone do not have an equal access to these resources or opportunity. If u have a green card or are a citizen u have an option, but for one who comes out fresh from school after an MS, u will hardly find anyone sponsoring H1 and then GC.
If u can get a GC by family route or being in the right profession like nursing, good for u. If u r a student or plan to come as a student, be carefull and be prepared for a PhD.

But, its not all dead in US. US is very innovative and have extreme appetite for taking risks. They will come up with something new to sell to the world. For example, today telecome may be almost dead, but wireless LANs is very very hot. U will not find any one un employed in this field and they still command a high salary.

Many of my friends and co -workers have moved to India, China and Taiwan and are doing extremely well.

My suggestion is, do not plan or revolve ur life around US, but around ur career. If u r good in ur field u will have a good life anywhere in the world. And if the economy picks up, u can always immigrate to any country in future. Have patience and good luck!

[shokeen123]

[quote]R. C. PALSANIYA (Dec 08, 2003 01:01 a.m.):

"N regarding some other countries i think u hv heard that what is happening with Indians which should not be happen....is it??"

************************************************** ********************

You make American dream look like a piece of cake….. In the truest sense American dream is not just landing on the American soil, but to build a life around an idea, realizing one hopes and dreams that couldn’t be fulfilled in the homeland. Not every one who comes to America is an IITian. And not everyone who lands in America works for the IT industry. The discussion you have highlighted in your post is perspective of one frustrated Stamford student who couldn’t find happiness in the US, and therefore it is not a concept that can be generalized. “American dream” is a much broader term!”

Furthermore, not everyone who comes to America automatically gets served on a silver platter. It’s sort of “rite of passage” that, depending on one’s education, skills and marital status requires going through and meeting several level of formal requirements. One doesn’t earn it overnight, but in due course of time life gets much easier and for the dreamer sky is the limit. With determination, hard work, perseverance and faith in oneself, this land is as good as one could have wished for.

Yes, every once in a while one gets nostalgic here, but then such is life in general anywhere? America is home to people from all walks of life, from all ethnic cultures, and made up of people with all kinds of hopes and dreams. More importantly America is land for those who can dream, whatever it may be, that is. We enjoy the bounty of opportunities this land offers us. I am getting tired of the baseless negative endorsements about the American life. I wonder how far Kalpana Chawla would have made it had she stayed back home, that’s not nearly saying people can’t be happy or successful staying with their roots. And I wonder if Sateyndra Dubey had moved to the US how far he would have gone with his level of brilliance and education that was so earnestly supported by his parents of humble means?

It is time we stopped blaming the food because of poor appetite. Politics are dirty everywhere, job market is not prefect in India either? And happiness and sorrows are once again subjective terms and follow us everywhere, one can’t be happy all the time, at all the places? Can some enlighten me on the rosy picture in India…that “all is well” with regard to the Indian economy, job crunch, war with neighbors, terrorism, and religion and caste relations?

The (Stamford) guy by his own admission hates anything Indian “I went to buy a pillow in the supermarket. It said "Made in India; Packaged proudly in New Jersey, USA" I felt like banging my head in desperation.” We, Indian Americans on the other hand are much more generous with our sentiments for the motherland. We are more Indian at heart, than an Indian in India, and are so very happy to buy Indian goods that are now propping up in up scale department stores everywhere with superb Indian quality and pride. Therefore, let me dispel the myth: yes we do lead a fairly decent life here, including job satisfaction, better educational avenues, cultural harmony, leisure and fun, economical security and even involvement in the political process.

Sujata

[anilkc]

there has been a significant change in India in last 10yrs...the most important being...HOPE.
Indians are now up beat and +ve abt the future.

Indians now can have an "Indian Dream".

The microsoft advt in USA for their recruitment in India reads "It's Amazing what you can do in India".

[vivek]

Living in the US has its positives and negatives. As Sujata mentioned, nothing comes on a platter, and you have to work for everything. However, if you are hardworking, and fairly intelligent, America will afford you a financial security that will make you forget about some of the mundane everyday finacial headaches that you have to if you live in india.

This said, there are times of nostalgia, and if you go through a rough patch in your career, there is no family support structure that you find in India. People in India will be unsympathetic as they feel it milk and honey down here.

I have also drifted apart from my local cousins in the US, as talk in such gatherings eventually drift into how successful, and how much money you are making. Perhaps its just my familial sphere, but who needs the stress of gossiping idiots. Doctors here seem to make a lot of money, and the indian origin ones seem to eventually think that they are something extraordinaire. Further, I don't meet too many indians who volunteer their time for charity and such. (I myself could do more..).

[ugehlot]

America is all about....Show me the money...Baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That why people come here...tell me one person...who came here to win a nobel prize......

I also have doubts that the best talent comes to America from other countries....tech boom is an example of this ....all we have here is Gultis...who i doubt had the highest calibre and so is the case of doctors....how many doctors from Govt colleges make it to the USA....majority are from private medical schools in India...

Nostalgia and other feel good stuff is all emotional Bullshit....tell me how many times you really feel happy when you see an indian...most people dont even want to strike a convesration....

in the end people work hard...make money...thats fair...and crib abt how good or bad India....and stick with the outdated value systems which dont seem to work here and you end up having confused kids......

Indian culture is great in India not here....so the saying goes if in rome...do as the romans
do...

anyway....it not important where you live dont ***** about your country and try to help its cause whereever you r

cheers
upender

[anujkumar]

Right, wanting "the right cultural mix" / "best of both world" does creat confusion.

Also "some" NRI's are on the forefront of bashing the bad state of affair in India, primarily because it helps to highlighten their "affluent" life in west. Which is where this anti- NRI thing originates.

About returning home X+1 syndrom, it does exit (again atleast in some), So one should make a well informed/investigated decision and break the "the unending series" if they want

Strinking up a converstaion was an interesting example... I think it is dues to unhealthy compition. (just like Tomar said).. An exagerated example: "being in the west is such a big thing, how the hell this stupid looking desi (compare life style, I look more western) reached here.. say at airport. So they no time to discuss India there"


Upender Gehlot (Dec 11, 2003 05:12 a.m.):
America is all about....Show me the money...Baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That why people come here...tell me one person...who came here to win a nobel prize......

I also have doubts that the best talent comes to America from other countries....tech boom is an example of this ....all we have here is Gultis...who i doubt had the highest calibre and so is the case of doctors....how many doctors from Govt colleges make it to the USA....majority are from private medical schools in India...

Nostalgia and other feel good stuff is all emotional Bullshit....tell me how many times you really feel happy when you see an indian...most people dont even want to strike a convesration....

in the end people work hard...make money...thats fair...and crib abt how good or bad India....and stick with the outdated value systems which dont seem to work here and you end up having confused kids......

Indian culture is great in India not here....so the saying goes if in rome...do as the romans
do...

anyway....it not important where you live dont ***** about your country and try to help its cause whereever you r


cheers
upender

[anilkc]

Here are some of the most important changes I noticed among my friends (and me) and me when in USA.
1) Ppl who never set a step in a temple in India, start visiting temples very frequently. They will drive for hrs if required for a temple visit.
2) They never default in loan/credit card payments. Before comming to USA, they maxed out their card in India and never paid, but on return they clean up everything in USA.
3) Very carefull while driving. The same ones when on vacation to India drive in "India Style".
4) Very polite in conversation. On landing in Delhi airport, they start their conversation with BC/MC.

Think abt it why?

[ugehlot]

Guess...............where is the LAND OF THE FREE............

[anilkc]

Most of Indians are economic migrants, so money is by default the most likely topic of discussion. Other than money and things money can buy, what has west to offer to Indians ? To feel comfortable and to prove that I made the right decision in migrating, I have to make money, the more I make, I more right I am.

I know of lots of NRIs, who do lots of charity work. Most of the FOBs are not involved in helping some poor kid in AFrica, Afganistan, Iraq or for homeless and old people in USA. They are more involved with things in India and the Indian style is to keep quite abt it.

So far, I have not found any Indian, who does not feel happy on seeing an Indian. Indians generally are hesitant to strike 1st conversation (for 100s of reasons). I will probabily not say Hi to every Indian in NY or Fremont,CA (too many), but I know of many cases, where my friends changed jobs or city, just becos there were too few or no Indians to interact with. ABCDs may be difficult, but their parents are more than happy to invite us to home. AND this forum just proves that we are more than happy to see other Indians. I have made more than 20 good friends through this forum.


LIVE your Dreams, wherever you are !!!
As said in ....., Karma is more important than final result.

[ugehlot]

its no rocket science that we will make friends with an indian...or i being a jat will spend a lot of time on jatland...its basic human nature man....

among our own people we find comfort and it is 100 % true.....It is nothing but the need....and when that need arises we get comfort from your own people..

[naveen_chaudhary]

I would agree to this. Significance of some of the things is best realized when we are far away from them. Anil has given some good examples. Festivals are another example. In India, may be Diwali is just another holiday for us but when we are abroad (away from loved ones) we realize what's the true spirit of Diwali.

I feel we become more sensitive when we are away from Motherland. I was in Dubai during the Kargil conflict and donations collected for Kargil heroes were simply unbelievable. Some may think that this is due to the fact that we make more money abroad but that's not true. It's not about the money it's the feeling you have for you own country. I have seen parents taking their kids to Indian consulate or embassy for flag hoisting on Republic day not sure home many do that back home in India. You don't need any money to do that.

I feel we become more patriotic when we are abroad. Naturally, one will feel good when he/she sees or meets fellow Indians or people from your state/town. We tend to look for similarity, which we can find only in our own people. That’s why we are on line on Jatland.

[shokeen123]

“[quote]Upender Gehlot (Dec 11, 2003 05:12 a.m.):
America is all about....Show me the money...Baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That why people come here...tell me one person...who came here to win a nobel prize......

"Apart from the monetary success, Indians abroad have also distinguished themselves in academics. A number of Indians abroad are serving as professors in the British and American universities. Kalpana Chawla became the first Indian woman to fly into space with NASA. Indian Nobel laureates like Dr Hargobind Khurana and Dr Subramaniam Chandrashekhar could win the Nobel Prizes and international acclaim only because they migrated to the USA to avail themselves of better infrastructure research and scientific facilities and a competitive environment. Dr Amartya Sen, the Nobel Prize winner in Economics for the year 1998, won international acclaim by being the first Asian to be appointed Master of Trinity College in the UK.” (Tribune India, April 17, 1999)"

http://www.tribuneindia.com/1999/99apr17/saturday/mailbag.htm

[palsaniya]

someone commented ..Money is ample....always.....?

Is There matter of Money only......but..money is not ample factor always,....coz people feel affluent where surronding is not much copious compare to them...like India.....but in US surrounding janta is more copious....
as X=someone ,
Y= [surrounding]US people,
Z =someone,
ZZ=[surrounding]aam janta in India,

Y>>X
Z>ZZ
then satisfaction of X & Z
X>Z,X<Z,X=Z....?
The craze for exotic electronic goods, cars and vacations have been satiated. The weekend gatherings
are becoming routine. Faced with a mid-life crisis,
the upwardly mobile Indian's career graph plateau_s
out. Younger and more aggressive Americans are
promoted. With one of the periodic mini recessions
in the economy and the threat of a hostile
take-over, the job itself seems far from secure.
Unable or unwilling to socialize with the Americans,
the Indian retreats into a cocoon. At the home
front, the children have grown up and along with
American accents have imbibed American habits
(cartoons, hamburgers) and values (dating).

They respond to their parents' exhortation of
leading a clean Indian way of life by asking endless
questions. The generation gap combines with the
cultural chasm. Not surprisingly, the first serious
thoughts of returning to India occur at this stage.
Taking advantage of his vacation time, the Indian
returns home to 'explore' possibilities.

Ignoring the underpaid and beaurocratic government
sector, he is bewildered by the 'primitive' state of
the private sector. Clearly overqualified even to be
a managing director/chairman he stumbles upon the
idea of being an entrepreneur. In the seventies, his
search for an arena to display his business skills
normally ended in poultry farming. In the eighties,
electronics is the name of the game.Undaunted by
horror stories about government red tape and
corruption he is determined to overcome the odds -
with one catch. He has a few things to settle in the
United States. After all, you can't just throw away
a lifetime's work. And there are things like
taxation and customs regulations to be taken note
of...............
**************************

[ugehlot]

thanks for the information....i suppose i have never heard of these names............and yes!!!!!!!!!!!!they are indians......



"Apart from the monetary success, Indians abroad have also distinguished themselves in academics. A number of Indians abroad are serving as professors in the British and American universities. Kalpana Chawla became the first Indian woman to fly into space with NASA. Indian Nobel laureates like Dr Hargobind Khurana and Dr Subramaniam Chandrashekhar could win the Nobel Prizes and international acclaim only because they migrated to the USA to avail themselves of better infrastructure research and scientific facilities and a competitive environment. Dr Amartya Sen, the Nobel Prize winner in Economics for the year 1998, won international acclaim by being the first Asian to be appointed Master of Trinity College in the UK.” (Tribune India, April 17, 1999)"

http://www.tribuneindia.com/1999/99apr17/saturday/mailbag.htm[/quote]

[palsaniya]

Exactly Upender ji !!!

[scsheorayan]

Dear All,

Why all this fuss about migration and NRI etc. etc. There is nothing wrong in moving about and go where opportunity takes you. Your personal feelings about a place or it's people are influenced very little from where you live. The reason being the feelings come from your heart which knows no distance. Have a good heart and live wherever you like and all is fine and dandy. But for those of us who are looking for easy money or born with silver spoon no place can provide the satisfaction whether it is US,UK, India or Timbaktoo. It is all inside and don't waste time looking for it in temples or banks.

[anilkc]

http://sify.com/news_info/news/fullstory.php?id=13333730

[ugehlot]

i dont think the idea of this discussion was to create fuss about people migrating to different places for opportunities......i think its great to look for what you believe in....its great that jats are finally waking up and making their presence felt worldwide.....

[scsheorayan]

Very Good then let us talk about Desi Dreams made in India. It is encouraging to note that this year's elctions were decided by Jat votes in Rajasthan and credit goes to Jat Maha Sabha Rajasthan. This website can be an excellent place to meet and make not only your own but those of millions who live in this beautiful country come true. The Global village includes all countries and states and the geographical distance does not pose such a big problem. It is the distance between hearts which is harder to narrow. Perhaps it is time to work on it.

[anilkc]

In Rajasthan Its always been jats vote which decides the party in Govt. But so far Jats in rajsthan have done nothing else with their collective power, except satisfy ego clashes of some leaders. They could not decide on a CM, when more than 50% MLAs where jats.

[scsheorayan]

That is very unfortunate. What we need are good honest leaders who can put interest of the community over and above their own personal gains. Let us hope future generations provide what past and present could not. My point for bringing the subject on this site was to show a ray of hope that Jats can still unite through net working e.g. Jat Mahasabha of Rajasthan where Mr. Pilania and Col R.K.S. Bijarnia have done a great job by declaring Jat unity. Even if every one does not listen to them there are some who do and outside world notices it. There are plenty of opportunities for Jats right here only if they can unite. Have a few ideas but let us hear some thing from other jats and let us call it a Jat Dream

[palsaniya]

ya thats natural coz if all jats will be one sided then there chance of new big problem...
so its 4th law of nature.....we cann't do anything..
regards
ram



anil chaudhary (Dec 13, 2003 06:09 p.m.):
In Rajasthan Its always been jats vote which decides the party in Govt. But so far Jats in rajsthan have done nothing else with their collective power, except satisfy ego clashes of some leaders. They could not decide on a CM, when more than 50% MLAs where jats.

[kumarsapna]

I am presenting my views from a mother and wife's point of view. Why we go from one place to another? In search of what we don't get where we are living. Definitely, my husband came to US in search of better opportunity. But, we tag along. We all learn to adjust to a Foreign culture. Then, we start missing what we had in past and try to gather the pieces by meeting people with similar need. But, the basic thing is we try and should be happy where we are for the family. There is always something good around if you try to find it. Everyone of you have or will have a family to raise. If we cannot overcome these small issues like which place is better, you can not progress.

I sound very philosophical, but we all look for common grounds to meet people.

From my example, i have a 14 years old. When he came to us 10 years back and he was confused then. Not any more as his grandparents showed him what India is and he is proud of being Indian in US.

To summarize, teach and grab what is best from both the worlds. You will be miserable if you keep on missing what you don't have. So do something about it and meet desi or jats.

And to get something in life you have to work hard, no matter where you are. Every place is beautiful if you are sucessful or satisfied.

We have good friends who make each other laugh. But, I still miss my mother here in US.

Sujata, keep on encouraging with your good thoughts.

Sapna

[dchhill]

Hi I am confused and some times I also curse myself why i came to us . No friendships here only you run after money here. Life is very difficult for students here. But i am sure of one thing we can work damn hard face the worst of situation start a little bit late but in the end we will succeed. I constantly think about my parents who live back in India alone but time changes many things and change is a part of life so "karm karte raho phal ki chinta mat karo"
Take life easy.:)

[palsaniya]

Ya Divya... "karm karte raho phal ki chinta mat karo"

Karm ka phal to milta he hai....soon nahi to bit late......just we hv to Fight............












divya chhillar (Jan 09, 2004 06:39 p.m.):
Hi I am confused and some times I also curse myself why i came to us . No friendships here only you run after money here. Life is very difficult for students here. But i am sure of one thing we can work damn hard face the worst of situation start a little bit late but in the end we will succeed. I constantly think about my parents who live back in India alone but time changes many things and change is a part of life so "karm karte raho phal ki chinta mat karo"
Take life easy.:)

[rkumar]

Dear frineds,

" Man Changa to Kathoti me Ganga". This sums up it all. Problem is how to keep this "mann" changa ?.. Volumes have been written and endless debates have taken place on this...Unfortunately there is no single magic wand to transform our 'Mann" into that "changa" form. What keeps Sujata Changa, is not good enough for some other Guy or put otherway...Sujata knows how to keep herself Changa, wheras other guy/girl still has to learn the art.. Wish programmimhg our 'Mann" was as easy as writing a subroutine and running it with a press of button.. The whole issue is more of philosophical nature than a simple debate of where is life better or worst.

I will put forth some observations which are purely scietifc and have no subjective interpretations;

1. We all individuals behave like atoms in molecules and loose our individual character. Its the totality of our surrounding what is important and not we alone as individuals. This is the reason I suppose why our performance, happiness vary from place to place and from system to system. Beauty of us being human is that unlike atoms we can perserve this in our memory and carry it with us all over if we are trained to do so.

2. Honestly speaking, for me I find no difference between places. Happiness can not be a function of surroundings, its a funtion of state of mind. If mind is happy, creativity is universal, be it in USA or in India. There are problems everywhere, though of different kinds, God has gifted us to solve them all or to adjust with them all.

3. Like greatness of a nation or society, downtrodeness is also not permanent. Anything which goes up, has to come down. I am not telling this, Physics tells this. Higher the energy state of any system, less stable it is. So my American friends, don't be under the illusion that American greatness will last forever. May be some of guys like Ram are sensitive enough to observe the begining of that decay of this excited state of America. Mind you this has happend to so many such great states in history for some or the other resons..Fact of that matter is that whatever one may call this, laws of science simply do not support any system to be in excited state indefinitely. Smart are those who gain the energy from this fall in the state...

4. Very rarely it happens in nature that once a organised system gets disorganised, it simply does not make back to be fully organised like before. Based upon my this hypothesis, I don't think India as whole will ever be developed like USA or any developed country. Only some pockets of influence will be there who might even surpass USA in future.( just a guess..)

So moral of story is that truth is some where in between. USA may remain great, but its not going to last for ever. Similarly, India may be in a poor stae of devlopment, but it will certainly go up, if not uniformely, randomly at least. When world is so dynamic, how can one base his/ her ideas on static indicators of past of present ? Lands of opportunities have been constantly drifting in periods of history. As old saying goes, laxmi never sits at one place for ever. And...and....and...last but not the least...call them rats or sensitive people or intelligent people...or any name, they are the first to desert the place when it goes on fire or sinks....or starts decaying...whatever one wish to call.

Regards
Rajendra

[scsheorayan]

Dear Divya,

It appears you are feeling home sick which is natural. Concentrate on your studies and keep in touch with your parents. America is not that far from India and your dear and near ones are only a phone call away. Many will give an arm and leg for US education. Now you have an opportunity and make the best use of it. You must have a few local friends not necessarily Indian or Jats. Your teachers, class mates, room mates can make excellent friends.We have a few Chillars and Chhikaras here and can put you in contact if you like.

Good luck and keep in touch.

divya chhillar (Jan 09, 2004 06:39 p.m.):
Hi I am confused and some times I also curse myself why i came to us . No friendships here only you run after money here. Life is very difficult for students here. But i am sure of one thing we can work damn hard face the worst of situation start a little bit late but in the end we will succeed. I constantly think about my parents who live back in India alone but time changes many things and change is a part of life so "karm karte raho phal ki chinta mat karo"
Take life easy.:)

[shokeen123]

Dear Rajendra Bhai:

“What keeps Sujata Changa, is not good enough for some other Guy or put other way...Sujata knows how to keep herself Changa, whereas other guy/girl still has to learn the art... Wish programming our 'Munn" was as easy as writing a subroutine and running it with a press of button..”

Why do I detect a note of subtle resentment here? Actually, what keeps me or anyone changa is not too difficult at all provided one has his or her priorities figured out! Yes, I grew up hearing that sermon, and I have practiced Buddha’s preaching ever since I have known life, “If you cease from wanting you will have it all.” Perhaps that’s the magic wand I have been able to use. But ‘discontentment’ is applicable to any number of hardships in life anywhere, why just America?

I do not believe I had made a case strictly in favor of the US, and or implied that “all that glitters is gold?” I had simply tried to portray a balanced world view of the concept of American Dream. But now that you have so illustrated your opinion, especially highlighting ‘the probable decay of America’ (nothing lasts forever), please do allow my philosophical spin on the issue. Life is not all about American dream, not at least for some of us. In fact, unlike many elite and learned scholars on Jatland (who made it to the promise land based on their father’s pocket, name, fame or intellect) I had no such aspiration to come to the US. I was a humble grass root level public health professional, content serving my village community; err… that is, until my Jat community tried to dictate terms for my future.

Just like you have so aptly expressed in another thread, “My views are very radical on this issue (Bulanshahar dowry article). I have two daughters and both are well qualified. Girls have to take stand as well as parents.” Well, I was somebody’s daughter too! I took a firm stand for my future and fortunately my sensitive father consented to my wish! To that end my community became instrumental in bringing the exile upon me. It all ties into our social, economical political and geo environment; and expectations and obligations are not akin to just my life. Therefore, choosing a vocation or a lifetime destination is never truly a simple act of learning as you have so made light of my personal decision. Several factors simultaneously play a rather vital role in shaping any future. We can debate on ‘perfect medium’ till cows come home. We have no control over the one (Almighty) pulling string from above. I wouldn’t necessarily agree with your contention that one can become changa from learning the simple art of ‘’programming the munn.’’ It takes years of painstaking personal and emotional growth, self discipline, and strength to program one’s mind to the sensitivities of one’s environment. I am not sure you have appeared completely unbiased. Or at least I feel as though you are not willing to see the good (I am able to see in America?) is it just because it doesn’t meet your criteria of perfection? Nevertheless, I did not leave India because of India’s downtrodenness or because of disorganized system; I made an informed decision that took me elsewhere, and whether I love it or crib about it is immaterial. What is important is how I make it better for me.

“So my American friends, don't be under the illusion that American greatness will last forever.” Mind you this has happened to so many such great states in history for some or the other reasons.

My Indian brother, not even Americans are disillusioned about the unpredictability of any sorts in life, let alone me, an immigrant Indian American! And of course we witnessed the fall of the great Soviet Union, what was once a feisty rival to any super power is now a fallen empire? But allow me to express that the sense of impending doom alone is not sufficient reason for anyone to start decaying with the premonition? If that were to be the case I am ready to take the plunge... But haven’t you claimed in your own words, “Honestly speaking, for me I find no difference between places. Happiness can not be a function of surroundings, its a function of state of mind. If mind is happy, creativity is universal, be it in USA or in India. There are problems everywhere, though of different kinds, God has gifted us to solve them all or to adjust with them all.”

Then how could I be so discretionary as to only choose the good? Good bad and ugly comes in a single file at least in the world that I have come to know! I am not trying to discourage the Indian youth but please do remember regardless of all our heeding people make decisions based on dictates of life rather than the text book theories.

Regards,

Sujata

[rkumar]

Dear Sujata Bahan,

I fully endorse your views. Like you, I too believe in the universality of happiness. I totally agree that each individual has to figure out what makes him/her happy. I think we are both saying the same thing. Use of names in our posting is more as an example and not anything more than that. On a lighter note I feel really elevated reading your response and particualry you quoting from my so many postings...My God, you really read them all so carefully.....

Warm regards
Rajendra

[shokeen123]

Rajendra Bhai:

Of course I am extremely selective as to what fancies my bent of mind! There are posts that I avoid and then there are posts I look forward to reading! It doesn’t take a genius to discern the genuine intent expressed with malice to none. Shubha Chand Bhai is familiar with my social ranting and has been a sympathetic listener and supporter for quite sometime now. No, I didn’t mind the use of my name at all in fact it is a positive reflection of someone who sees the glass half full. I do believe our social issues are intertwined and the one common thread connecting the dots is education or lack thereof, therefore the several quotes from your different posts have been simply used to show how distant sometimes the ‘philosophy’ and ‘reality’ are!

Regards,

Sujata