Fee cut in IIM's

[vickydahiya]

Why not the fee cut's in IIM is accaptable to the various IIM's and to the alumni's of IIM's? They have give the reason that it will affect their infrastructure. The HRD ministor of BJP govt. Mr. Murli Manohar Joshi assure them that they will got the full fee in form of subsidy from the govt. But still they are not ready to fee cut!!!!!!!! WHY??? The only reasion is that it spoils their culture. By now only those students who have a very nice economical condition were able to got admination from the colleges. But now if the fee will cut down every brilliant student will fight for admission in these colleges even if he or she does not have very sound economical background. The fact that this will increase the compition for the rich students is not acceptable to the staff of alumni. They afraid that the brilliant student from poor comunity will keep them aside in the compitative exam. By now they got the admission not because they were the most brilliant student but because they were among richest families of this country. And in future also they don't want that their childrens have to face compitation now.
Dr. joshi who is a professor, try to help the labourious students of all categories by cutting the fee so that the higher education can reach to a comman man. But what a nice reward we have give to him " A huge defeat in Lok Sabha". There are only few person who wants to works in the welfare of the country and a comman country man and if we will do the like this with them who will work for us in future????

EVEN GOD CAN'T HALP THOSE WHO DOES NOT HELP THEMSELF!!!!!!!!!!!

[anilkc]

The problem is:
Mr. Murli Manohar Joshi assure them that they will got the full fee in form of subsidy from the govt.

Can u really beleive what a politician says?
Why should IIM get a subsidy when it can do w/o it? Should not the subsidy go to govt school education which would help poor student to reach a state where he/she can compete for IIMs? How can u expect a student to compete for IIMs when the 16 yrs or so of education he/she received was substandard?
Even before the student is ready to take the examination, how much money is spend on coaching classes and books? where can the poor student get that money? Once u get admitted to IIMs how many student have turned down the offer bcos of lack of money for fee? Once u get admission, its very easy to get a student loan which the student can pay back easily from the kind of job offers he/she gets. I beleive the poor/rich divide is not after u get admission but before u get it. Only rich students make to IIMs or rich students can make it to IIMs irrespective of their competance is a myth.

The major reasons I beleive IIMs have, for not accepting fee cut is that with subsidy will come govt appointees, how to spend the money will be decided by the govt and not by IIMs. This will bring the sarkari babu culture and IIM will become like any other govt school or college.

I know many of my batchmates went to IIMs and none of them where from "rich families". Most of them got through some loans. There are many IIMs grads in this forum and perhaps they will be able to give a better view point.

[bab_shinoo]

I have soemthing to add in this.
Most of the students who prepare for IIMS are with at least an yr or 2 yrs job experience, they usually hav esufficient money to pay the fees. The amount of money tht is spend in preparing for CAT is enormous, so most of the students preparing for CAT are capable for paying the IIMS fees. Have you ever known a case, where a student was not able to get into IIMS bz he did not have money, though he was admitted. No ...the reason being, there are so many backs which will give u loans , the moment they see yur admission letter from IIMS ( we r talking abt IIMS here, the best in India) and you pay the loans only after you get your job. Not only tht there are so many company tht will support (sponser)you, bz yur r good enough to get there. So the reasoning tht students with low economic status cannot get through IIMS bz of the fees is wrong. Instead most of the students from places like IIMS n IIT are from simple n middle class families. I am a IIT passout, I dont remember one person in my whole batch who was rich. We all were from simple middle class families.
The reason why most alumni do not want a feecut is : 1)An IIMS pass out gets a good job, he earns much more than what he gives to IIMS. There is nothing wrong for an institute to charge you for the excellent education and facilities it provides 2) the facilities tht an MBA institute needs to provide, requires a lot of money. To maintain the excellence in educations, IIMS has to spend money.
If Dr.Joshi really wants to do something worth, why doesnt he check upon the fees tht the numerous MBA (engg, medical) colleges are charging in places like bombay, bangalore, pune n other parts of India. They dont even provide the basic facilites like Internet. My cousine at jaipur (engg) paid much more tht what I paid at IIT, n he had absolutely no facility as compared to what I had. I really dont see any point in reducing the fees at IIMS. If Dr. Joshi really wants to help the intelligent (but not welloff students) he needs to check upon the fees tht these Pre-CAT prep coachibg classes are charging. I have seen ppl paying as much as 10k each month. Do u think a student from a simple middle class family can afford tht, n will any bank give loan for tht ?? We need to identify the core of the problem and work for it. Deduction in fees of the IIMS is not an ego issue as some ppl qoute it, its not the solution to the problem we seek to resolve.
Babita

[bab_shinoo]

I agree with you anil....

"Only rich students make to IIMs or rich students can make it to IIMs irrespective of their competance is a myth."

[vickydahiya]

Babita there is a major difference in the IIT's and IIM's. IIT's dont have such a high fee structure. Equally open for every body. I have also done my M.Tech from DCE but the fee was reasonable. And only you are right that there is no body in IIT from the rich family because the compitation was open and they were not the good enough to get admission. And this is the only fear because they oppose the fee cut. U tell me that if the fee in IIT is 1.5 laks per anum. how many of ur classmates would be there along with you???
Regards,
Vikas

[mbamal]

I have never met any guy who couldnt study in IIM just becasue of lack of money. Funding is readily available in form of very low interest bank loans. The issue is the autonomy of IIMs which would be jeopardised once govt controls the funds of IIMs. around 25% of my batchmates r studying at IIMs. Logically they should support any fee cuts since they would to pay less. But they are much more aware of the consequencies that would follow after such a move. I think govt should stay away from IITs and IIMs otherwise they will soon fall in the category of B grade schools and loose their capability to provide quality education in the longer run and loose their brand value in no time.

[anilkc]

Vikas,
DCE is diff from IIT. It gets funds from DU/UGC, Delhi State and Center, so fee is
lower than even IITs. Its also the reason that all the 3 interfere with its mgmt. ALso, MTech u get GATE scholorship. U should know that the largest grp in IIM is IITians. At least half of IIMs have science/engr as backgrnd. So, its the same poor students where able to make it to IIT/DCE, made it to IIMs.

Subsidy will make education for rich free, just like 50% of farm subsidy is given to the rich. A better approach would have been to set up a scholorship like GATE. Many colleges including DCE has a scholorships for LIG.

Even the current IIM fee of lacs is subsidised due to corpoorate research work undertaken by IIMs.

Mr. MMJ made a stupid decision and good that he paid for it. Professor sahib ke funde gol hain.

[vickydahiya]

Anil,
When two people start thinking in two different direction there is no end to controversy. First of all i want to tell u that DCE by no means cheaper then IIT's. We have to pay a fee of rs 25000 per annum and hostel expeditors. Secoundly, i always think that costly education is by no mean good. What if u get the loan? why u need loan for education which is our primary right? I am agree with u that subsidy should also given at school levels as well and a there are the different ways like scholarship to help student. But not on the point of view that we should take loan for our education and that lower fee rates will help the rich people rather then poor to get admission. I did'nt see any logic behind it. If there is any please explain me!!!

[anilkc]

Ideally education should be free, but thats an utopia. Since, resources are limited, u have to set priority and find most efficient way to invest it.
If we want to go behind the logic of fee cut or not, it will turn into a discussion on what economic principal u beleive in: communism/socialism/capitalism. This can go on for ever.

I support right to Primary education, not higher education. Higher education should be earned.

[bab_shinoo]

I strongly feel tht the institutes have a right to charge you for the brilliant future they give u ...once u come out of a professional institute with a job of 3 lakhs or something, whats wrong if the institute is charging you 1.5 lakhs per annum. Dont forget the institute too needs money to provide u facilities, an institute backbone needs money. Also whereever our gov. tries to take controll it gives way to corroption. You u want a B grade prof. teaching at IIMS just bz he is some neta's relative, not tht its not happening now ..but atleast not in IIMS (I hope !!!)

[anilkc]

One suggestion:
Every engineer should take a course in mgmt and economics sometime.

As for loans, whats wrong in taking a loan? Loan is an investment just like the time u invest in education. U will get returns if u r capable. Subsidy is like a loan which u think u will never have to repay. The only way govt can get an ROI is by raising taxes. Either u or ur kids have to repay it some day. So, be carefull what u wish for.

[birbal]

The proposal to reduce fees at IIM is irrelevant to accessibility as has been pointed out by many on replies to this post. It was politically motivated and Prof. joshi got his just reward from the voters (though I feel it was accidental and not related to this decision).

The most relevant point was raised by Anil about the accessibility to good primary education and coaching. If the Human Resources Minister was really concerned with accessibility for poor/disadvantaged students there are many other means of at least correcting the problem to some extent.

One such solution I suggest is provide 1 year of free coaching to about 10,000 students nationally after they have finished High School from rural areas ( and poor urban background). I am not suggesting that 1 year of coaching levels the playing field but I am sure many of such students will make to IITs, Medical Schools and other highly rated programs leading to a bright career beneficial for them and the country. Within 7-8 years the program can be self funding as the past recipients are required to pay back to the program a percentage of their income.

[anilkc]

Kai saal pehle, very likely it was Rajiv Gandhi, but I am not sure, Navodya Vidayalaya naam se scheme chalu hui thi. The idea was excellent and I know a couple of villagers who really made good use of it. I dont know whats the status of it now. I hope its not gone to dogs like other govt schemes. The idea was great.

Birbal Sir,
Aapka idea to nek hai, magar isme coaching se pehle bahut kuch karna hai. This is my experience:
I agreed to pay for the full coaching and college fee for admission into any reputed college like IIT/IIM/REC etc. No one from rural area agreed to it. They wanted that I pay for the capitation fee for some donation college in Karnataka or Maharashtra etc. Reason: No one interested in studies. All they wanted was a degree and then some govt jobs. Over that, they want that I pay them money to bribe someone to get the govt job.
This we have to change first. We have to change the basic thinking that education is for govt job and to get job u have to pay bribe.
No one wants private jobs. Reason: Kaam karna padega, private naukrian to khoon chus leti hain.

[mbamal]

All the money one needs to get into IIMs or IITs is the fee of application form. If one is competent enough he/she will get through. Once you are in, financial help is easy to get and is not a handicap. In IITs there are merit cum means scholarship for those who cant afford the tution fees etc. So the real issue here is not the high fees. I think MM Joshi made it a personal issue. I agree with Anil. Govt should provide quality primary education at minimum prices. That would help rural and financially week sections of society more than anything. Cutting fees and compromising the autonomy of Elite institutions like IIMs,IITs,RECs DCE etc is not a good idea.

[anujkadyan]

Hello all,
I agree to what anil and Birbal sir said about the accessibility to the primary edication. Vikas is right that its our right to get education, but the question here is in a country of one billion ppl its better if we first provide primary education to all and then talk about subsidy for higher education like in IIMs.

I dont feel the problem is the fees for education in IIMs ..as anyway one can recover it in a years time. The problem is much deeper. The pattern of CAT is such that its almost impossible for a guy who has done his education from a govt school to make it to IIMs ..reason being the amount of weightage they give to the verbal scores. I have my friends who scored 99 percentile in maths and Data Interpretation but in verbal his score was a bit less and he dint get a single interview call. On the other hand there were people with very less scores in maths and DI but very good verbal scores who made it.

Now for being able to score that well in verbal is very difficult for a guy coming from a rural back ground , so even if he is amazingly good in maths he will have tough time.

Regarding coaching and books and the cost fo application fiorms ..yes the cost of all this is also too high.

Regards,
Anuj

[bab_shinoo]

Hey Anil...
I had a batchmate from UP who was from a rural background, had all her education at Navodhyala and made it to IIT. N guess what, she is a JAT. Now she is preparing for IAS, so yaa its is working n ppl do get benefitted from it.
Babita

[anilkc]

India needs capitalism: Murthy

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/715787.cms

[anilkc]

Great!
I beleived it was the right approach when it was announced. I hope it prospers.


Babita (Jun 03, 2004 12:47 p.m.):
Hey Anil...
I had a batchmate from UP who was from a rural background, had all her education at Navodhyala and made it to IIT. N guess what, she is a JAT. Now she is preparing for IAS, so yaa its is working n ppl do get benefitted from it.
Babita