Is Sardar patel a Jat

[rajoura]

Hi

Recently I have seen the Movie Run, starring Abhishek Buchhan and Bhumika Chawla. The heroine has played a role of a Jatni from Haryana and his brother Mahesh Manjrekar a Jat Don from haryana. From last 2 or 3 years lots of movies are made having Jat element. I think now peeople have started feeling the presence of Jats in Northeren India.

I would also like to mention one more important fact. last week I went to my friend's place in New jersey in Iselin. He is a Patel (Gujrati) I asked his father, who are actually Patel's. He said Patel's are actually Jat's. He said we migrated from haryana and Western UP to Gujart. I also asked him, is Sardar patel a Gujjar? He said not at all. He mentioned that patel's have 6 huge villages in Gujrat and Sardar Patel belong from one of that village. He said we do not know who are Gujjars.

I was in the impression that Sardar Patel was a Gujjar but if I believe this Gujrati's word, Sardar patel is a Jat.

Looking forward for your comments

Regards

Sanjeev

[abhishek]

Sanjeev Rajoura (Jun 02, 2004 04:49 p.m.):

The heroine has played a role of a Jatni from Haryana and his brother Mahesh Manjrekar a Jat Don from haryana. From last 2 or 3 years lots of movies are made having Jat element.




I am surely not looking forward to that kind of "jat element" in hindi movies....jats do better things in better way. :)

[anilkc]

U will find Patels from Gujarat, MP and Maharashtra. They are Jats. Also, Patils mainly from MP and Maharashtra.

[lrburdak]

Sardar Patel is not jat.He is Kurmi by caste. Kurmi caste is found in Gujarat,U.P.,Bihar and Madhya Praesh. Patel surname is very common and used by almost all casts. Village chief is called PATEL.Large number of jats in Malwa region of M.P. use Patel surname.
regards,

[bab_shinoo]

Just to share an experience, this was when I was in my 11th grade. My maths teacher said to me after seeing my maths score, "oh so finally a jat manages to get a good score !!" I was so surprised n taken back by his statement. It was then my frnds told me what jaipurites think abt jats (tht was my first yr in rajasthan). After this, I have always heard ppl giving me similar comments abt jats (only in north India), like u guys have brains in yur keens, u guys dont think at all !!!! I mean do ppl really think belive tht abt us ....why is it tht jats r expected to be just 2 things: army n farms. I am sure there is no such tag asscociated with any other community as ours.

I am surely not looking forward to that kind of "jat element" in hindi movies....jats do better things in better way. :)[/quote]

[anilkc]

I beleive that was the last time your maths teacher said that :)

[birbal]

Babita,

Your math teacher was lot milder compared to one Prof. I knew who saw my quantitative GRE score of 800 and said "that does'nt seem right for a Jat", and I had already graduated from IIT. Stereotypes are very difficult to erase.

Birbal Singh

[ndahiya]

Just my though: Its sometimes good that others start with low expectations. More upside potential. :P

[bab_shinoo]

Dear Dr. Singh,
I have been through the same experiences in IITD....But I thought all this is bz its Delhi.....ppl feel the same abt JATS in Bombay??
Babita



Dr. Birbal Singh (Jun 03, 2004 01:53 p.m.):
Babita,

Your math teacher was lot milder compared to one Prof. I knew who saw my quantitative GRE score of 800 and said "that does'nt seem right for a Jat", and I had already graduated from IIT. Stereotypes are very difficult to erase.

Birbal Singh

[birbal]

Babita,

Maharashtrians do not know about Jats (at least in my days it was so), but the comment I referreing to was from a Brahmin from Rajasthan.

But just to add to this point about stereotyping, I became a lecturer in BITS Pilani(leaving India in 1969). In those days the math faculty at BITS was totally Jat dominated. Dr. Ghasi Ram Verma (who went to Univ of Rhode Island), Dr. Rajveer Singh Dahiya (who came to Iowa State university in 1969 and still there now), Dr. Birbal Singh (lot of people on this website confuse me with him), his younger brother, Dr. Pratap Singh, Dr. B.S. Tewathia and his younger sister Krishna, who is married to Dr. Rajveer Dahiya and in Computer Science at Iowa State now, Prof. Swarn Singh Cheema (Rajasthan based Jat Sikh and leader of Jat association on the campus) and Sahi Ram Yadav (though a Yadav but he was with me at Jat boarding in Jhunjhunu during early school days and we always counted him with us. There was not a single Rajasthani Brahmin on the math faculty there but it does not matter. The streotyping remained as is.

[bab_shinoo]

Dear Dr. Birbal Singh,
Two yrs back,I had the pleasure of meeting Dr. Ghasi Ram Verma at Jhunjhunu just before coming to USA. He is a very down to earth person, n encouraged me on taking this step, specially bz I had no relative in US. He said, bz he is in US, so I dont need anyother relative. I really appreciate him for his support. Ppl in Jhunjhunu really love him, n wait for him to come to India every yr. I was really touched by the fact tht I showed up at his place with no prior appointment on a june aftee, but he was more than happy to meet me. And the best thing, he was wearing a Dhoti. It was a wonderful experience with him.
Babita



Dr. Birbal Singh (Jun 04, 2004 12:37 p.m.):
Babita,

In those days the math faculty at BITS was totally Jat dominated. Dr. Ghasi Ram Verma (who went to Univ of Rhode Island), Dr. Rajveer Singh Dahiya (who came to Iowa State university in 1969 and still there now), Dr. Birbal Singh (lot of people on this website confuse me with him), his younger brother, Dr. Pratap Singh, Dr. B.S. Tewathia and his younger sister Krishna, who is married to Dr. Rajveer Dahiya and in Computer Science at Iowa State now, Prof. Swarn Singh Cheema (Rajasthan based Jat Sikh and leader of Jat association on the campus) and Sahi Ram Yadav (though a Yadav but he was with me at Jat boarding in Jhunjhunu during early school days and we always counted him with us. There was not a single Rajasthani Brahmin on the math faculty there but it does not matter. The streotyping remained as is.

[birbal]

Babita,

Since you talked about Dr. Ghasi Ramji Verma and I am sure many people on this site know of him and his contributions to the education of Jat girls (over one and half crore Rupees). I want to tell a true story about him which as a working professor I write with mixed feelings but since he is now retired and it happened 60 years ago I think it is ok to tell.

Dr. Ghasi Ramji's best friend in school days and later in life as well has been Shri Rameshwarji (he was my school headmaster and most colourful person I have ever known in life. He is Khati or carpenter by caste). Ghasi Ramji was always first class student but Rameshwarji had no hope of passing his B.A. in math. In those days ( and may be now, I am not sure) we used to have two exams or papers in each subject and the total of two was taken to decide pass/fail. Passing marks used to be 33%, so a good student could pass the subject even if he/she got a zero in one of the exams. So in one of the math exam Ghasi Ramji wrote Rameshwarji's role number (no names were allowed to be written) and Rameshwarji wrote Ghasi Ramji's Role number. This way Rameshwarji got his B.A. and later became Heamaster and Ghasi Ramji got the only Second Division in his life.

I think younger Jat boys and girls should get a copy of his life story(I have one) and get inspiration from him. Sometimes I feel I had a tough life and then read few pages from the book and realize compared to his my life has been a piece of cake.

[anujkumar]

#

[bab_shinoo]

Dear Sir,
Is the book online..I would love to read it ....
Babita


I think younger Jat boys and girls should get a copy of his life story(I have one) and get inspiration from him. Sometimes I feel I had a tough life and then read few pages from the book and realize compared to his my life has been a piece of cake.[/quote]

[anujkumar]

Birbal Sir,

Kitab kaa naam aur kaha se mil sakte hai, ye bhee batao.

US me to nahee milti shayad.

--Anuj

[birbal]

Anuj and Babita,

The book was organized/edited by his fomer students (including IAS, RAS officers, professors in USA and India and evn including Jhumpa Lahiri, one of the most successful Indo-American authors as her father was a colleague of Dr. Verma at Rhode Island) in 2001 for his 75th birth day. I got a copy from my brother-in-law during my last visit a couple of years ago in Jhunjhunu and I do not how to get copies. I told about the book to Shri Dharampal Singh Dudee and he talked to Dr. Ghasi Ramji who sent him a copy to England, but that is not a good idea if we all ask him for a copy.

Since I have mentioned his name several times let me tell you a little about him. He is now called as a "Krorepati Fakir" because whatever money he saves, he donates mainly to education for Jat girls and somewhat for boys too. Upto the time of the book he had donated about one and half crore Rupees (remember, he started donating when a US dollar was worth about 7 Rupees, so do not translate one and half crore Rupees into Dollars by today's rate).

The inspiring part I like is that he was born in feudal times when in our area Jats were barely surviving. The book tell about how many times he had to have interruptions in his education for lack of money ( and the money is in the range of 10 to 100 Rupees). He taught private tuition whenever he could to earn a couple of Rupees a month sometimes. Later on he was a school teacher and a real great teacher as one of his student who organized the book is former IAS topper Anandilal Rungta from the town of Bagar where Ghasi Ramji was his teacher. Later he managed to gather enough money to get M.A. (but had to break a couple of times at that stage too) and he could have been able to get a good job at that time but decided to do a Ph.D. with a scholarship of 50 Rupees a month. He not only did Ph.D. himself but inspired a whole group of Jats to do Ph.D. who were in Pilani.

Based on his Ph.D. thesis he was offered a postdoc at the Courant Institute ( number one in applied math for nearly 60 years up to now) by Prof. Forsythe (one of the pioneers in numerical analysis and the author of the most famous book by Forsythe and Wasow). Of course, from that point he had no financial problems and started donating money to educate girls.

When it comes to simplicity even now at the age of 79 he carries a Peti (before suitcases we in Rajasthan at least used to have these metal boxes for suitcase) so that he can sit on it while travelling by those buses that still exist in my part of Rajasthan with no seats but a bench all around and floor in the middle.

I come from a equally poor background but at least I was able to manage continuous education thanks to the merit scholarship system which started soon after 1952 elections.

[ranjitjat]

Dear Dr Birbal singh Ji
Thank you very much for your information about Dr Ghasi Ram and other.
Jat ki debate bhi nirali hoti han. Bat saru hue Sardar Patel sy aur pauch gae DR Ghasiram tak.
Carry on good points.
IS SARDAR PATEL A JAT- 100% NO
ANTI- JAT DEBATEABLE DUE TO DEALING WITH
MAHARAJA BHARATPUR ABOUT STATE & JAT FLAG. ?

About Dr GHASIRAM JI.
I visited Pilani & Jhunjhanu colleges in 1959-60. I met Major Dayanchand in PILANI COLLEGE HOCKEY GROUND and heard Dr Ghasi Ram frist time.
I know DR Ghasi Ram, Sh Ram Sarup Arya.
Subhachand ji and others over 15 years. I am in regular contact with them because they are doing great work for our community.
Dr GhasiRamji and I are the member trustee of GRAM UTHAN VIDAYA PETH SANGARIYA- RAJ.
SAWMI KESHVA NAND EDUCATIONAL TRUST.
We both are HON- EDITORS of a JAT MONTHLY NEWSPAPER.
I am in regular contact with him since 1987 for advice on social work.
But I never asked him to send me the copy of the book.
I presented him 2 copies of my book France to Kargil in 2001.
1 copy of ADHUNIK JAT HISTORY in 1998.
He send me a copy of his life story- KARORPATI FAKIR LAST YEAR IN LONDON.
I am very grateful to him.
I will suggest all jats should read it . particularly those interested in community work.
Your true story about indian wrestlers is very nice- i fully agreed.
Master chandgi Ram and other players told me same story about Munich OLP GAMES.
Jab vah London aye hamare ghar- 1972 mae t to DAL-ROTI khane ky vad khan BHAI SAHIB- 30 DIN KE VADJI BHAR KAR KHANA KHAYA HAE. BHUKHE MARTE KASE GOLD MEDAL JIT KAR LATEY. LAST DAY SELCTION YB CHAVAN NE KARVAYA. MATT KI KUSATI KI PRACTICE NAHE KARWAE 1 DIN BHI. INDIAN EMBASSY SY KAHA HAMKO 1 INDIAN COOK CHAHIYE- VAH BHI NAHI MILA.
These are some hard facts.
We have to accept & remove our weak points. if we want to compete in this world.
Cheers

[varuntomar]

this piece of information may be irrelevant to this discussion thread but i wud however like to share it with you. the kind of attitude Dr Birbal Singh might have faced at IIT Delhi is no longer there.....
1. the present director IITD is a jat Pof. R S Sirohi
2. many other faculty members, administrative staff, sports oficials are jats
3. there is a very strong jat student lobby in my hostel itself ( aravali)
and jat boys here have more or less a very smooth sail
Dr. Birbal Singh which hostel were u in as a student at IIT Delhi?

[mbamal]

bhai varun,

adding to ur info,

1. prof. dahiya --> GATE chairman
2. prof. Prem Vrat --> Ex-Director IITD

b.t.w. aravali main jat lobby bhi hai..yeh to abhi pata chala hai..2 saal pehle to nahin thee..

[varuntomar]

bhai mandeep
i am from kishanpur baral distt baghpat now in third year civil eng. iit delhi.
aravali maine do saal pehle hi join kiya tha. now we have a very strong jat lobby.
some corrections too,
Dr premvrat was dean of students iit delhi
and presently he is the director iit roorkee.
do u have any association with iitd too?

[mbamal]

Prof. Prem Vrat was acting director IITD before Prof. Sirohi took over.

I was in karakoram hostel..passed out in 2002.. electrical engg...