A Matter of Behaviour?

[akhil]

Some of you must have come across this article/report somewhere or the other. (I am quoting it from a Times of India report):

'Tourism Minister Renuka Chowdhury says only a more courteous, clean India can attract large numbers of tourists, who otherwise get turned off by spectacles of public defecation and discourteous behaviour.

"Indian men, wearing Ray Ban glasses and driving Ford cars, pull the window down, spit on the road, and they urinate on the roadside. What to do?"

What views do you have about this?

Is this a concern and something that we all agree with?...Forget Tourism, the basic instinct of most Indians to trash and be discourteous generally for what they believe "Is not mine, so what do I care!?!"...must be a nightmare for any government or Nation to handle, isn't it?...

Any why do you think that we ... even the educated ones too behave in that manner when it comes to our own country?... when in any other we would be scared to hell to even throw away a candy wrapper...

[jtsagi]

Akhil: This is a really a nice topic and gives everyone a chance to reflect within themselves as to how courteous they are. Courtesy is a unique commodity; priceless to receive yet it costs nothing to give. When it comes to Indians, I have noticed that most of the things are taken for granted. Before I came to US, I literally took everything for granted which includes the nice meals that I was served anytime of day or night, laundry, never had to clean anything in the house.......
It was only after I came here that I realised the importance of a lot of things in life and I am sure most men do because you get to see both sides of the coin.

In America, the kids learn these things right from childhood so, no wonder most of them are really good with customer service skills. In India, the emphasis is more on showing off in the society. The values of being courteous, polite and civic sense need to be instilled right from childhood by the family as well as the teachers in the school. Left unchecked, such problems can be the death of a society and it even hurts more to see the educated kids from the so called well off families do these things.

"Indian men, wearing Ray Ban glasses and driving Ford cars, pull the window down, spit on the road, and they urinate on the roadside. What to do?"
I am sure if all those guys who are driving these Ford cars are made to clean their houses, cook, wash utensils and do laundry on their own for just even a month they will realise the importance of a lot of things that they just take for granted and will begin to atleast start appreciating things that they been receiving on the golden platter.

PS-The opinions expressed here are based on my own observations and experience. Your mileage may vary.

[anujkumar]

APJ Abdul Kalam share his views

http://www.jatland.com/cgi-bin/ub/UltraBoard.cgi?action=Read&BID=4&TID=2663&P=1&SID=56903#ID4

[jagmohan]

Why it is that the same Indian who urinates on the road does not even spit when he is in a country like Singapore? The same person who boards a flight from Mumbai/Delhi, after spitting and urinating on the road side, will follow all rules and regulations after a few hours when he has reached a foreign destination. How Come?

The answer is 'DANDA'.

We are one of the most indisciplined people/nation in this world and treat our country (Called 'Mata' and 'Sone Ki Chidiya') as an open latrine. No wonder the old timers in the villagers say "Bhai, in logon se to Angrez badhiya thay. Thoda bahut to dar tha sarkar Ka".

Will we improve?

May be by 3000 AD.

[scsheorayan]

The problem of lack civic sense among Indians has many facets to it. Some of the factors which I beleive are contributing to it are;
1. Materialism which promotes competition and resultant inferiority complex which comes from falling short of parental and society expectations. Subsequently it drives individuals to compensate for this apparent short coming by exhibiting their material possessions to gain respect and acceptance in the society. There is no simple solution for this malady other that self education.
2. Human beings behave more responsibly as individuals in comparison to part of a mob. In the mob mentality some how personal accountability factor is pushed back in individual's mind. Imagine being 0.000001 percent of a crowd which you will be in an Indian metropolitan such as say at VT Station in Mumbai in comparison to say 0.01 percent of a crowd in say visible minority at an International Airport. It automatically introduces some sense of responsiblity.
3. Corruption- Yes people believe that in India it is easy to bribe and get away with a lot of things. But the same is not true in other places which automatically puts the fear of law in one's mind.
4. Excessively Protective Parents who fail to teach children the value of discipline and harmony in society. This is particularly true in case of so called educated and well off families. Which in turn breeds more corruption which we all take for granted.
5. Reluctance on the part of society to get involved in matters which do not directly affect them. People are becoming too self centred to worry about the society which is a real worry.
6. Society is made of individuals and if individuals are responsible the entire group or nation becomes responsible. When was the last time that you saw some one spitting a Paan in public place or doing some thing even worse to which you had objected.
7. Then there is the small matter of population pressure and lack of well maintained amenities.
It is natural to answer the call of nature and if there is no amenities available there is not much choice. Unfortunately that is still true in India. Inspite of all the technical and commercial advances there is very little progress in this direction.

These are just some of the factors which came to the mind in last few minutes there could be others. In order to address the problem we have to address and find solutions to these problems which is not a small task but is not impossible too. Next time you see some one behaving badly atleast let them know that their behaviour is unacceptable. That will be a good start.

[rksehrawat]

It is because of lack of civic sense which has to be inculcated from the very young age. It is often seen that people make their kids urinate/defecate in open which is imprinted on the young mind and they take open lavatory as their birthright. It is the question of attitude. I wish to share an interesting incident which changed my whole attitude towards cleanliness. Once we were driving through the jungles of an African country, Namibia. We stopped the car in the middle of jungle to take some rest. After drinking cola, I flung away the empty can in the bushes. Our chauffeur just got up, collected the empty can and put it in the bin after which he turned towards me saying "Mr. Sehrawat, this is our country, please help us keep clean". I had to really feel very sorry and the incident is still etched in my memory and wherever I am the incident forces me not to dirty the surroundings. In Indian context, I agree that danda for the grown up and inculcation of civic sense in the kids are the only solutions.

[vivek]

Peer behavior is a strong motivation too. Again...some of these 'bullies' suffer from behaving like a 'sher' at home, and 'chuha' when they leave the country.

[anilkc]

I dont remember being taught in school or told by any teachers or elders that u should not pee or should be courteous. How to be courteous is rarely being taught.

[shekhar_nehra]

Anil Bhai sahab I do not think every thing is, or can be taught in Class Room. I believe you were taught by your elders in family ( First Socal Institute a child interacts with ) to pee in toilet and even how to pee in toilet.
Do you expect your master at school to tell each and every thing in class. Did your Master pee on road side. If yes I have nothing to say. If no then don't you think he served as an example for all the students.

Don't you think you ever met a person who was courteous to you. Did it not strike you as a child to be like him. At most a child can be told to be considerate. I do not think being courteous can be taught formally in a classroom.

Well I guess you were not the one who would have ever used a roadside tree/structure to pee.
But I do not subscribe to your argument that it is not taught in class room therefore people pee on the roadsides and are not courteous.



anil chaudhary (Aug 14, 2004 09:54 a.m.):
I dont remember being taught in school or told by any teachers or elders that u should not pee or should be courteous. How to be courteous is rarely being taught.

[anilkc]

Shekhar, u did not get the point.
I was commenting on:
1) ... even the educated ones too behave in that manner ...if its not taught in school what has education to do with manners?

2)In America, the kids learn these things right from childhood so,...they are taught these stuff in schools.

All parents cannot be good guru.

All those guys u see peeing on roadside are someones parents and definitely some of them are teachers too.

[scsheorayan]

There are two aspects to any learning process. One is what we learn from external sources which includes teachers,parents society etc. In Haryanvi it is called "Padhai"
It is indirect knowledge. The knowledge which is acquired based on other's experience. It is quickest way of learning.

Second and most important aspect of education is direct analysis of theoretical knowledge using your own experience and observations. This is called "Gunai" in Haryanvi.

It is the second aspect of education which sets apart merely educated ones from wise ones. Both aspects of education are essential to attainment of wisdom.

It is very rare to find a wise person to be arrogant. The simple reason being that arrogance is a kind of defiance of social norms. Because arrogant person considers his/her own understanding of a subject to be the whole truth. In other words they do not know "what they do not know". However with plenty of Padhai and Gunai one realises that what he/she knows is abysmally small in comparison to what he/she does not know. Whish automatically produces modesty in individual.
Therefore we can say that lot of our problems (Believe me peeing on road side is very insignificant in comparison to some serious misgivings which so called educated people of to-day are afflicted with) could be resolved through right learning (it is the second aspect of education I am talking about). There is no excuse for not judging your own behaviour on the scale of civil society of which you are a member. Common sense is not taught in any school or home it is the process which is inherent in individuals in varying degrees. Sadly it is not so common.

[shekhar_nehra]

Anil Bhai sahab may be I will miss the point this time too, but only thing I want to say is that: "When you serve as a good example, You do not have to set many rules"

Surely most of the ppl who spit on the road or pee in open, will admit that what they are doing is not right and refrain from doing it if there is a DANDA ( fine etc) or proper infrastructure (dustbins n clean toilets in public places)


As pointed out by Shubha uncle ji there are many reasons for this aberration. In addition to what has been suggested by uncle ji I would like to add that we

ourselves should be well behaved irrespective of the country we are in and serve as role models, coz tiny little eyes follow what we do.

Shubha uncle ji aapki Padhai arr Gunai wali baat 16 aane sahi hai. Could not have agreed with you more on this aspect.



anil chaudhary (Aug 14, 2004 10:43 p.m.):
Shekhar, u did not get the point.
I was commenting on:
1) ... even the educated ones too behave in that manner ...if its not taught in school what has education to do with manners?

2)In America, the kids learn these things right from childhood so,...they are taught these stuff in schools.

All parents cannot be good guru.

All those guys u see peeing on roadside are someones parents and definitely some of them are teachers too.

[scsheorayan]

Dear Shekhar,

Thank you for the understanding. The problem here is not with rules and regulations but their implementation. It is much easier and healthier to follow a principle based policy than a rule based life style. Infact India already has so many rules which people exploit to their advantage. Every time you make a rule a new industry is born to exploit it to their own advantage. However the spirit of the rule is never to be seen again other than in official papers.

Need of hour is to educate people in principle based policies. For example here we are talking about maintaining clean environment which every one likes. If every one likes it so much may be they can also participate in maintaining it.

Society needs to be balanced and it is only possible through balanced individuals. There are three aspects to a human personality which decide it's behaviour. Comparing it to computers we can say that people need to balance their hardware,software and programming. In case of people hardware is what you can see i.e. outward appearance and physical characterstics towards which nature,parents and individuals make necessary contribution. Fortunately Jats are well gifted on this front. Next is software i.e. input of knowledge base which comes from education we are also making good progress on this front this website is evidence of it. However the most essential element of human behaviour the Programming which teaches individual how to use those software packages and use hardware is where we are losing out. Parents and teachers need to concentrate on right programming. That is the only way. It may be slow but there aren't any short cuts. Let us hear if some one has found some short cuts and how did they serve him/her in making his/her life better or World a better place to live.

[shekhar_nehra]

Dear Shubha uncle ji,
Going by your analogy all people can be grouped in 4 categories:

1)Who lead a principled life and have adequate control over their actions and foresight to see consequences of their actions.[ person with reliable and well designed OS/System Software + Good Application Software]

2)Who are educated (padhai only) but do not take responsibility for their actions.[ Proprietary OS + Good Application softwares]

3)Who may or may not be educated but are ignorant of their actions.[ some kind of OS + some kind of Application s/w : capable of upgrading to good OS and application s/w]

4)Who irrespective of educational qualification have their attitude " Hum nahi sudhernge !" No control on their actions and its consequences [ Corrupt OS + Malicious application s/w]

A person unlike computer system can upgrade his status from level 4 to 1 though time consuming process and also degradation from 1 to 4 in no time. Very few people are at levels 1 and 4 , most people being at level 2 and 3.

OS = Operating System (Eg MS Windows,Linux )also called System Software = Basic philosophy of life ; Sanskaar.
Application Software : a program that runs on OS (Eg MS Office , Photoshop) = Karma
Hardware : anything you can kick in a compuretsystem. = Sharir

Of the three aspects hardware(body) is becoming least important now a days as there is a shift from manual work to automated work. Though a healthy mind resides in a healthy body.
We need to focus on OS and then application software and I believe we Jats have good foundation/basics.

Regards





Shubha Chand Sheorayan (Aug 15, 2004 10:39 p.m.):
Dear Shekhar,

Thank you for the understanding. The problem here is not with rules and regulations but their implementation. It is much easier and healthier to follow a principle based policy than a rule based life style. Infact India already has so many rules which people exploit to their advantage. Every time you make a rule a new industry is born to exploit it to their own advantage. However the spirit of the rule is never to be seen again other than in official papers.

Need of hour is to educate people in principle based policies. For example here we are talking about maintaining clean environment which every one likes. If every one likes it so much may be they can also participate in maintaining it.

Society needs to be balanced and it is only possible through balanced individuals. There are three aspects to a human personality which decide it's behaviour. Comparing it to computers we can say that people need to balance their hardware,software and programming. In case of people hardware is what you can see i.e. outward appearance and physical characterstics towards which nature,parents and individuals make necessary contribution. Fortunately Jats are well gifted on this front. Next is software i.e. input of knowledge base which comes from education we are also making good progress on this front this website is evidence of it. However the most essential element of human behaviour the Programming which teaches individual how to use those software packages and use hardware is where we are losing out. Parents and teachers need to concentrate on right programming. That is the only way. It may be slow but there aren't any short cuts. Let us hear if some one has found some short cuts and how did they serve him/her in making his/her life better or World a better place to live.

[rkumar]

Interesting topic indeed. I have often pondered my thoughts over this and this is how I understand it;

Education has two components; learning and unlearning. In the learning catagory we learn new skills to survive and in the unlearning catagory we unlearn some of our animal stincts which are not conducive to healthy social leaving. Urinating in open, spitting, random walking are all animal behaviours and we Indians have not been able to unlearn them. Kissing and making love in open are also animal behaviours and those in west have not been able to unlearn it. So there is this mix of habits to be unlearned in all the societies. Urinating, deficating and spitting in open is not so bad in 70% of Indian country side as mother nature takes care of degrading the excreta in most environment friendly manner without use of tons of clean water to trasport it back to our river system. Problem comes in urban areas where it spreads stink. Meaningful excreta disposal is a big issue in whole world today and no system is perfect. We in India have to come out with our own answer to the problem. Problem can not be taken just at its face value.

Rajendra

[sabeena]

Really pathetic state of affairs...
well all said n done i guess India needs a few years of solid dictatorship from some hardcore militarian.

[ajaysinghbamel]

[tourism Minister Renuka Chowdhury says only a more courteous, clean India can attract large numbers of tourists, who otherwise get turned off by spectacles of public defecation and discourteous behaviour.

"Just For Info to All:
Ms.Renuks chowdhary is married to Jat business man of Hyderabad and they belong to Beri.
regds

[anilkc]

China has come to believe that the uplift of a nation's spirit depends as much on the creation of economic wealth as on that of a beautiful physical environment. The better the physical conditions, the sunnier will be the people's moods and deeper their sense of pride.

This is a correlation that we in India have never seemed to fully understand. Our cities are seldom pleasant to look at. Our villages are in a permanent state of decay. Even our renovations look patchy and crude.

http://us.rediff.com/money/2004/aug/20spec1.htm

[scsheorayan]

The biggest problem we are facing is lack of sincerity and lust for luxury. We are forgetting the teaching of Geeta i.e. concentrate on action and not on result. Those who do so really succeed in life but they are a few and far in between.With material progress has also come desire to acquire at any cost even at the cost of one's conscience that is the real pathetic situation. Money without labour is evil.
"Earnestness alone makes life eternity"

When greater part of community is earnest they progress but when the ratio drops chaos rules.

[shailendra]

...A very good Topic indeed Akhil!

I am coming back to the site after a long time and looking forward to catching up on all these interesting topics:

This one is really a food for thought, and it's difficult to pin-point where the answer lies. Self policing could be a first start, along with the need to somehow feel proud about what is ours and needs to be protected, enhanced and cherished (not trashed!)...
A difficult preposition when basic instinct tells you to step over, pull down and move on over anything that hinders your own progress...leaving very little time to worry about the smaller details like,"Does how this Country look like, reflect how we ourselves are?"...

[ajmer]

Folks,

I don't think we really have to worry about all this. You see, most problems take care of themselves on thier own. We know there are environmental related issues in India. So are Education related issues, ethical issues, employment issues, healthcare issues ....

It is very obvious that the sources of clean water, clean air and healthy food are fast depleting in India. In fact, clean water, clean air and healthy food is already a big problem for most people in India.

Let the system run its course and it will surely bounce. If not earlier it will definitly bounce when it has hit the bottom.

In 1980s, who would have thought that India will become a well known entity in worldwide Software and IT services market.

You do need to be individually responsible for your actions though. Because with that you can make a net progress in a system by differentiating yourself.

-ajmer

[shailendra]

Ajmer Dahiya (Aug 24, 2004 03:30 p.m.):
Folks,

I don't think we really have to worry about all this. You see, most problems take care of themselves on thier own. We know there are environmental related issues in India. So are Education related issues, ethical issues, employment issues, healthcare issues ....

It is very obvious that the sources of clean water, clean air and healthy food are fast depleting in India. In fact, clean water, clean air and healthy food is already a big problem for most people in India.

Let the system run its course and it will surely bounce. If not earlier it will definitly bounce when it has hit the bottom.

In 1980s, who would have thought that India will become a well known entity in worldwide Software and IT services market.

You do need to be individually responsible for your actions though. Because with that you can make a net progress in a system by differentiating yourself.

-ajmer

...Yeah, you got me a little worried there Dahiya Saab, of course that is till I came to the last paragraph of your post...

The hope on 'things will get better with time' means they are gonna progressively continue unabated for more times to come...In any case, there are already numerous documentaries here in US which highlight the painful fact (truth) about the outsourcing boom happening in a twlight zone spic and span complex right next to a Jugghi-jhopadi.

Of course this topic is not about the IT boom, but more about how we treat our public right of ways etc.
I agree with you, at least let's each of us do what we can ...