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View Full Version : Are we jats giving equal right to our women???????



ranjitjat
April 11th, 2002, 11:51 PM
we are a male dominated society.
our women are suffering.
How we can treat women equal.
Let welcome some of our women, give them some freedom . so they can explain better

scsheorayan
April 12th, 2002, 06:20 AM
Dharam Pal jee,

Males do not give any rights to females but they will take them as and when they are ready. In a lot of cases they are taking them now. Just look around you and you will find where the control centre of the family is. Important decisions are not left in male domain entirely. It is an automatic process which evolves with education of girls. If any thing they are moving at a very fast pace now and beating boys in every field including studies and careers. Agree that women had been suppressed for too long and now the danger is in girls taking revenge for the past and over doing this equal thing. Believe you me they can be more ruthless. Remember the saying " Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned". Watch out you boys and forget about what your grand father did. Because your wife will not tolerate what your grand mother did. Work as a team and maintain harmony at home which is more important than who wears pants in the family. That reminds me of a recent saying which applies here;

" In your attempt to provide to your children what you did not have, Do not deprive your children of what you had as a child. " As children I think a lot of us had supporting and strong parents who did right by their children. Parents of future should atleast provide that environment and any thing over and above is a bonus.

rajeshsindhu
April 12th, 2002, 07:23 AM
So the message seems to be clear: be deserving and snatch your rights. No one will give away his/her previledged rights so easily! Stop believeing in "taking", and start "snatching" your just rights.

I hope fair minded men will support them in their just/fair demands.

vinoddhaaka
April 16th, 2002, 01:41 PM
The fact that only two response have come to this topic proves that how much importance we give to such issues in our lives. It is true some women have come up in their own right and there may be cases where men have been victimised by women. But such exceptions should not deviate us from such a serious issue. And the issue stares in our face and we have avoided discussion on this topic. With our feudal mindset we have scoffed at men raising such issues and branded them dismissively as
" lugai "
But issue raised by Dharam Pal ji is How to help them ?
1. First we never allow a female to be born now. Sex determination tests have helped this. In jat majority districts low female to male ratio , which is lowest in the country speaks volume of our prejudice against female. Only option is to fight it among ourselves in our families, relationships & villages.
2. Girls are encouraged not to go to schools hence we never allow them to evolve into their individuality. Here tribute to many jat women who despite their illitracy carried their families in times of crisis. Here also an intervention at social level is desirable.
3. Girals are subjected to sexual harrasment at the hands of their own kith and kin but such cses are less in number but we definitely hush up such things and females suffer in silence. Girls have to be encouraged to speak up even at the cost of some disorder in the family.
4.Girls are never given freedom to accept or reject male match arrangement made by parents. Educated class though better but their is scope for intervention there too. Gladly evolution has been towards positive side.
5. As daughter in laws there are cases of harrasment now but in this respect in some areas situation is better.Women have to join hands there as a group.
6.Widows are neither allowed remarriage nor do they get share in the property of their husband families. They are left to take care of their female siblings on their own in case they decide not to remarry within family of their dead husband.
We have to get out of feeling that a female is married for life. The women may have to be encouraged to think of life after such trauma . We have many such brave women in our community.They should be encouraged to think of salvation by way of either of the options of living alone or with remarriage.
7. Women who could not carry on thier married life due to maladjustment and decided to separate are looked down upon. Mindset change only will lead to better options. Life after divorce has to be seen in positive light by the community.
8. Older women do not get adequate attention while younger members of families carry on with their work. Old women accept it as their fact of life and do not resent. We do respect such old women but when it comes to getting out of mindset we pay lip service. Community groups may be an answer to this problem.
9. Lastly we men have to appreciate that women doing only house hold work are also making economic contribution to their families.
A rather disturbing feature of educated jat women and their families is , their viewing marriage outside our community as an act of women liberation and enlightenment. Though individual right to marry a person of their choice should be respected but whether such allances are better than within caste marriage and are a means of social upliftment is debatable and requires separate space.
To my mind encouragement of women education and making them conscious of their contribution to family and society will go a long way in evolving a better world. A large number of communities are sailing in the same boat on this issue and political class has helped in continuation of this trend.

sphougat
April 16th, 2002, 06:44 PM
Dear Friends,

We have unique culture. women have right like swayambur from the ancient times (like sita swamyabar, dropadi swambar so on and so forth). Today also when any person looking for a boy, he collects all the information and then consult his wife. The wife consult her daughter. Then the daughter will decide who is the right person for her. This is a matter of protocol. Any way, in the past there were some instances when one king tried to marry her daughter for his selfish political interest. Some times they became successful, sometimes Haran take place. like krishan and arjun did. I mean girl send a formal message to a boy and boy took her away. Any way, In my opinion, (exception is everywhere) every man of this world, is ready to do anything for his wife and kids. You can see in your family, what you can do for your famliy. You will get the answer.
Any way, this is a long story, but I will try to summarize it. from 1947 onwards, country was divided on the basis of religion. why?
then society was divided for caste reservation. Why?
Then further family was divided for women rights. Why?
This is totally matter of votes!
I think we should close this chapter, however, if anybody is suffering, let us know. We can try but there is no guarantee for any help. reason, you can't stand always on somebodies head. sometimes it works, sometimes not. It is matter of your karma (to do) and bhagya (fate). "Whatever, you sow, so shall you reap".

rajeshsindhu
April 17th, 2002, 08:31 AM
Suresh and Dharmpal Ji,
Some posts that were no way related to subject of this topic have been removed, with the thought that we should not side track our so important and burning issue raised under this thread.
One of the primary reasons Jat community has not progressed much is that the community didn't give due respect/dignity/importance to its women. History is evident of the fact that this country was great as long as woman was respected and honoured here.
So lets learn from history and try to address this hydra-headed problem. Strength in foundation of any community comes from its women folk.

regards,
-Rajesh

scsheorayan
April 17th, 2002, 11:34 AM
Agree with you entirely and there is more. It is also true that Woman can make or break a family. Woman's worst enemy is ? ( you guessed it). The day all women realise the full potential of their influence on the family as a whole and make every attempt to harness their energy constructively there will be no need for a support from men folks. It is true that man is from mars and woman is from venus they think differently and have different priorities. These issues take serious turns when the individual becomes all important and there is little or no regard for rest of the family. That is the basic difference in Western and Eastern cultures. But now we seem to be rushing towards west and embracing their culture which has it's own short comings. Society is important and so is individual that is what we have learnt from last 5000 years that human beings can realise their full potential by living in harmony with their environment (one day some smart scientist will probably get his ph.d. proving just that with scientific data). This fact may not be evident to young and inexperienced person but after some experience one does learn a few things and this is one of them. The strength of unity is achieved through harmony and one has to make compromise to maintain harmony and synergy in family and society. You only have to look around for real examples and learn from them. In whatever way you can support women do it by all means but remember to maintain balance. One should not yield to emotional blackmail (which is one of the weapons in the domestic arsenal).Keep an open mind and use your head rather than heart. Most important is external influence which should be kept under control. Listen to every one but always do your own thing.Rise above pettiness (it is not easy but one has to try) With kindness and justice a lot of problem can be resolved. But for happy life one has to learn to give back some thing to society with the smile otherwise he/she has only led selfish and limited life. It applies equally to men and women.
Any comments please!

shokeen123
April 17th, 2002, 10:19 PM
B-R-A-V-O (Vinod!)


I couldn't have said it better! What an honest picture of our hidden Jat layers! Indeed this issue has been raised in another topic earlier, under the title, "And the not-so-pretty picture around Delhi and Haryana." It did get a lot of attention, unfortunately, most of the postings were removed in a fit of impulsive act to cool down the raging tempers at that time.

First of all, I must say that (with few exceptions), raising awarness about this issue on this site, kind of sounds like "preaching to the choir", because it is the villages, the grass-root comminity that must accept and bring about the change.

Your fair arguments deserve greater merit. Because, the worth of civilization can, and has always been judged by the place given to women in the society. One of several factors that justify the greatness of India's ancient culture is the honorable place granted to women. The Muslim influence on India caused considerable deterioration in the status of women, they were deprived of their right of equality with men, therfore, when Raja Ram Mohan Roy started the movement against this inequality and subjugation, we witnessed progress. The other great factor in the revival of women's position was the influence of Mahatama Gandhi, who induced women to participate in the Freedom Movement. As a result of this retrieval of freedom, women in India have distinguished themselves as teachers, air-hostesses, receptionists, bankers, nurses and doctors, however, painfully not the case with our Jat women (yet).

But all of this should not lead us to conclude that the women should look down upon domestic life. The main sphere of action for them should still be essentially a happy home which is their real kingdom and where their sweet manners and mature advices as wife, mother sister, and daughter make tremendous effects on the male members of their family. The first and foremost duty of Jat (or any woman for that matter,) should be, to bringforth noble generations of young men and women. Unfortunaely, in our Jat culture they are expected to exceed the ordinary, by producing heir to the family.

I wouldn't necassarily call educated jat women and their families their viewing marriage outside our community as an act of women liberation and enlightenment, as a disturbing feature? It may seems that way, but if you looked around, you will find non-Jat matrimony among Jat boys just as much, the difference is the magnification of the circumstances in the case of former. Some of it may be due to the restraints created by our own community (gotras), at least in some instances it may very well be due to lack of educated partner for their level of compatibility?

However, the bottomline remains that the Jat women have a long way to go.

Sujata

vinoddhaaka
April 19th, 2002, 12:44 PM
Sujataji two clarification / additions here. First on Muslim influence. Islam spread itself during early medival period and subjugated socities were converted to Islam.In that period of history it was comman. We have parallel examples in Hinduism where family deity of ruling family was worshipped by masses. To save women from marauding armies women were brought behind parda which perhaps got support from feudal sections of society dominated by male. So its not Islam but society brought it as a mechanism for protection.
But if we look at Quoran the treatment of women was more humane. During wars lot of men folk died and to give protection to women men were allowed polygamy. However on the opposite side we in Hinduism performed Sati on woman whose husband died. The very practice was very cruel the way it was practised. People will stand around the funeral pyre of man with drum and other folk music instruments which will be beaten at full volume in theory to worship sati but in practice to suppress the pain and cries of woman burning on funeral pyre. That is cruelty at the top. Islam never did that.
On jat girls marrying outside our caste is not necessarily out of compatibilty or personal choice but even in cases where there is no such problem it happens because we tend to look down upon our roots. Brahmnical order perhaps made some jats believe that we are a lowly caste. Our leading lights Sir Chootu Ram & Charan Singh fought that tooth and nail to get away from that feeling.
Who will bring that change in villages ? In my opinion young educated men and women with conviction who are ready to throw away conventional wisdom. Mind biggest revolution of History French Revolution of 1789 was brought by young men below 25 years of age.This changed the course of History.Thanks

shokeen123
April 23rd, 2002, 11:11 PM
Vinod:

Your point well taken - that atrocities do exist within "all religions." Throughout history mankind has adapted to certain advantageous practices to promote, protect or defend his rights from untoward forces. However, my contention, that Islamic influence subjugated or oppressed women does not arise from my narrow understanding about other religions, because, personally, I do respect every human being, and every religion, whether or not I am willing to accept the philosophy it teaches, is irrelevant. I think the point I was trying to make was a period in history that prolonged or aided women's suffering due to un-Islamic practices, remember, there is a fine line between "Islam" and it's improper practice. As much as I would like to believe and applaud Islam for it's virtues, there is a lot that I disagree about. Read more on this URL www.usc.edu/ women in Islam/Women in society/Modesty.

In any case, it is my earnest request, that we not go on to the band wagon to discuss further any particular religion on this board, because religion to me is a very personal preference and should be treated as such. The intent of the reference was a mere factual information to substantiate the hindrance to women's progress. And, yes, there are equally unfitting tributes of the Hindu religion (Sati) as far as women are concerned. However, with the advent of education Hindu women are finally experiencing new freedom and embarking on new horizons. I think the real issue we ought to stay focused on, is the status of the Jat women!

I think we can agree to disagree on the issue of Jat boys vs. Jat girls looking down upon matrimony within Jats?

regards,

Sujata

azadsingh
May 1st, 2002, 07:48 AM
removed by author

jagmohan
January 9th, 2006, 02:08 PM
Another good topic that came to an abrupt end.

I am sure members would be keen to know that very deep and well meaning comments were posted.

I think we need to re-look at this issue.