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View Full Version : Honest and Fair Communication: A Pre-requisite for Jatland!



shokeen123
April 17th, 2002, 08:50 PM
Dear all:

For past many days, we have witnessed a tug or war of words, sometimes leading to fanatical views, yielding no substance. There are some of us, who, for speical reasons of our own, try to sometimes single-handedly carry on the mission. We do so, because we "just didn't happen to run into this site." We found this platform to promote the cause of our social decay, educational lag, and to seek new frontiers. We do so by pledging allegiance to this site. Our thought provoking, genuine ideas stem not only from our personal experiences, but by the wisdom bestowed by those experiences. We have tremendous talent, wisdom, and creativity on this site, therefore let's make use of that gift!

"Honest disagreement is often good sign of progress" as Gandhi said, "but mockery of any sorts is a futile effort to undo the good" (No, Gandhi didn't say that...I did). Funny, in the US, "A Jury consists of twelve people who determine which client has better lawyer" (Robert Frost). In this case, however, the Jury is still out, for there are no lawyers! We are the agents of change, we are the catalysts, and we are the honest brokers of our own contarct with progress! Let us not lack power of communication/conversation, but lack the arrogant speech. Any fool can give a speech, for that matter, any idiot who can type can access the Internet, but our vision should not be limited by our own narrowly held beliefs or self professed leadership.

Each one of us has an opinion, let's be tolerant and sensitive to one another's needs, through the democartically held process, and allow the not-so-informed the chance to say, as well to learn. "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use!" (Galileo Galilei).

Let's not allow ourselevs to go astray from our mission. It is when we do the common things in uncommon way that we demand the world's attention, and not merely by mumbo-jumbo or words. Did you know that Jatland is now being used as a reputed site to quote on issues about our culture, heritage, and history? Do we want to expose our pettiness and substandard conversations?

It is right to admire people for the good in them, but wrong to rebuke them for their shortcomings. It is right to give advice to a human being if he is doing wrong, but it is also wrong not to advise him to do good. Somewhere therein lies the balance of right and wrong, good and bad, acceptance and denial. Just remember that words are powerful, so very powerful that they can change attitudes (for better of for worse), with or without provocation. Be kind with your words, and listen the positive message in things we have in common and in ways to make positive impact on our current and future generations. Our ability is what we are capable of doing, our motivation determines what we do, but it's our attitude that determines how well we do. The greater the loyalty of a group toward the group, the greater the motivation among the members to achieve the goal of the group. So why not keep our personal differences and the fallacies aside for the greater good of the community?

If the unpleasant arguments continue as they have in the recent past, I fear we will loose some well-meaning people who so generously contribute to the survial of this site. Let's hunger for excellence and not be starved by the lack of our poor appitite. "In the end we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends!" (Martin Luther King).

PS: For heavens sake, let's keep the un-necessary humor out of the serious discussions section please!

Sujata

amitdahiya
April 20th, 2002, 02:23 PM
removed bythe author

amitdahiya
April 20th, 2002, 03:02 PM
removed by the author

ajaykumar
April 20th, 2002, 07:03 PM
Friends,
I fully concur with Sujataji regarding the subject issue. Let's face the facts, be open but respectful and let different ideas, thoughts, wisdom enlighten us all. We may agree to disagree on issues, and that's a healthy sign (as long as we don't make personal remarks).

I am proud to be a member of this wondeful site. Most issues raised on the site are very crucial and timely for us to do some soul searching and take action. Some of the members, I am sure, will act as (or transform into) change agents in their individual worlds and perhaps beyond.

Diversity (of anything - colors, ideas, phyical realties) is a beautiful thing that we have around (or have received from GOD). Look around for a moment and we will see diversity in everything. Without digressing from the subject, let me just say that diversity in our views on issues is a heathy sign for our own intellectual development (which will lead us to action). Let's encourge the open communication and be proud of the way we, the Jat community, participate and communicate (on this site and in our own lives).

Warm Regards,

shokeen123
April 21st, 2002, 04:06 AM
Dear Amit and Ajay:

I so appreciate your support. Indeed it is so wonderful to be part of this group, that is building coalition, on and off the screen to form an informal council. All we need is "a few good men," and of course I, as the only woman representative (alas!) promise my unconditional support.

Clearly, it is evident that we are able to seek each other's point of view and are beginning to ask more of ourselves. However, I feel so frustrated and inadequate about the product (change) itself that is still out of our sight. We have poorly defined action plans and no process yet to execute it. I hope we all are brain storming at individual level so that we can conform to our ideas.

Regards,

Sujata

azadsingh
April 22nd, 2002, 04:06 AM
removed by author.

ranjitjat
April 23rd, 2002, 11:17 PM
Dear Sujata, Ajay & Azadsingh
Well said very2 honest, fair, wise & sincere thought.
Keep it up .God bless you all wisdom, happiness & success
in your mission & in future life

ajaykumar
April 26th, 2002, 06:49 AM
Hello!!
Regarding coming up with an action plan and implement it, I am positive it will happen through this site. For this membership to be at that level, members have to know one another beyond the level of formality (i.e, less formal interaction will be needed). This kind of interaction is natural. Some of the members, I am postive, will come up with an action plan as a great group or team. Until that point, it's okay to exchange ideas on issues and get an opportunity to learn about one another.

Let's keep the sincere, honest communication going and be hopeful for shouldering bigger responsibilities and challenges by members of this site.

Warm Wishes,

shokeen123
May 5th, 2002, 07:34 PM
The only person who has shown a little maturity in the Fauji marathon is, "Azad the critic" short, simple and straight forward. He spoke in the English we all understand, no riddles, no subtle cynicism, no trashy language, no accusations, no judgment, just plain truth. Rest of you have become self-indulgent. Now only if we could immitate Azad's steps (Immitation is the sincerest form of flattery- famous practical proverb), we will have emerged with a lesson in communication. Elegance of language may not be in the power of us all (we have seen the grade level snippets of these right here); but simplicity and straight forwardness are within our power. It has been evident that there are some here, who have continually depended on their autistic language (language only they understand), and there are others with complete command over the English langauge who failed to discern just when and how to shut up!

Discussions are exchange of knowledge, (baseless) argument on the other hand is an exchange of ignorance. It is time "ALL OF US" stopped working for the welfare of Fauji Pahlad. We have proved beyond resaonable doubt in our capacity to (mis) communicate. Only people who develop the ability to continously acquire new and better forms of knowledge are the real shakers and movers of excellence. What we have seen here however, is that no sooner does one topic end in a barrage of bickering and taunting, a new one is ready to be launched by another idle mind.

Why can't we settle our differences through personal emails? I believe you all are well-versed with that feature. If the argument looses the genuine intent, it becomes a tradegy. Humility is a great virtue, it leads to strength and not weakness, Indeed it is the highest form of self-respect to admit mistakes and to amend them? Who are we to judge anyone? "Many people believe that humility is the opposite of pride, when, infact, it is a point of equilibrium. The opposite of pride is actually a lack of self-esteem. A humble person is totally different from a person who can not recognize and appreciate himself as part of this world's marvels" (Rabino W. Bonder).

"Do not condemn the judgment of another becaue it differs from your own. You may both be wrong." (Dandemis) We need very strong ears to hear ourselves judged frankly, and because there are few who can endure frank criticism without being stung by it, those who venture to critisize us perform a remarkable act of friendship, for to undertake to wound or offend a man for his own good is to have a healthy love for him" (De Montaigne). Martin Luther King once said "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversey.

Why might I have guts to say these words? Because I got fed up with the mud slinging contest. If anyone here has the urge to retort on this posting please use the "Private message" feature provided (a sensible alternative to the open book ego campaign) on jatland. I hope now that the dust has settled we have the wisdom to see clearly, and move on, with regard for all and malice to none. The difference between stumbling blocks and stepping stones is how we all see them.

regards

Sujata

sukush
May 6th, 2002, 12:10 AM
Dear Sujata ji,
I don't have anything to add to what you have said. I just wanted to say that I share your concern whole heartedly and my understanding that people who are educated, traveled, experience etc. etc. has been shaken with this lower standard discussion. It has given me better understanding of negative sides of our community. I still understand our many strengths.
Also, I think Jatland needs more people like you, Azadji, shubhachandji etc.etc. to make it a platform to really have healthy discussions, better understanding of eachother and eventually someone actually benefitting from it.

scsheorayan
May 6th, 2002, 08:31 AM
Hello every one,
It is good to read various opinions and ideas which are fantastic but do they help any one ? Probably not because they are just words and people tend to forget after a while. With limited resources We must focus on constructive ideas and not waste the time. It will not come back for any of us. Great people have said a lot of great things and they are remembered for not just their words but for their actions or rather what they did for others which could be Jats or any other community or country. Therefore those of us who are privileged enough to read and understand what is being said here try and share with those who are unable to do so for whatever reason.

shokeen123
August 4th, 2002, 05:40 AM
Dear all:

It is time we revisited this topic. Call me old fashioned or conservative, lately, the Jatland postings are somewhat vague and not well thought out. It is one thing to have free access to this site, to use it effectively requires discretion and discipline in thinking. Jatland has emerged as somewhat of a sacramental site where people have grown used to a certain quality. It is like a village chaupaal, a temple, a Jat living room combined together, a place for people to get to know and connect with each other. We must keep in mind the membership of this site which ranges in age from youngesters to the elderly. In addition, the members are from all walks of life, with generous representation from both genders, and what appeals to a very small percent may not be everyone's cup of tea. By and large to maintain quality we have accustomed to each other's pet peeves with great sensitivity, and I am sure my polite assertion will be taken in the right spirit.

I hate using quotes, however, to try to convey the gist of the message, please allow me to use this quote:

"The truth isn't the truth until people believe you, and they can't believe you if they don't know what you're saying, and they can't know what you're saying if they don't listen to you, and they won't listen to you if you're not interesting, and you won't be interesting unless you say things imaginatively, originally, freshly" (William Bernbach).

While I am at it, I might as well add that some of the professional or career oriented discussions are best held through private correspondence. No offence to anyone, it just gets too overwhelming to keep reading the same thing repeatedly!

Thanks for your cooperation and quality participation!

Sujata

shokeen123
June 6th, 2003, 12:59 AM
Sujata (Apr 17, 2002 11:20 a.m.):
Dear all:

For past many days, we have witnessed a tug or war of words, sometimes leading to fanatical views, yielding no substance. There are some of us, who, for speical reasons of our own, try to sometimes single-handedly carry on the mission. We do so, because we "just didn't happen to run into this site." We found this platform to promote the cause of our social decay, educational lag, and to seek new frontiers. We do so by pledging allegiance to this site. Our thought provoking, genuine ideas stem not only from our personal experiences, but by the wisdom bestowed by those experiences. We have tremendous talent, wisdom, and creativity on this site, therefore let's make use of that gift!

"Honest disagreement is often good sign of progress" as Gandhi said, "but mockery of any sorts is a futile effort to undo the good" (No, Gandhi didn't say that...I did). Funny, in the US, "A Jury consists of twelve people who determine which client has better lawyer" (Robert Frost). In this case, however, the Jury is still out, for there are no lawyers! We are the agents of change, we are the catalysts, and we are the honest brokers of our own contarct with progress! Let us not lack power of communication/conversation, but lack the arrogant speech. Any fool can give a speech, for that matter, any idiot who can type can access the Internet, but our vision should not be limited by our own narrowly held beliefs or self professed leadership.

Each one of us has an opinion, let's be tolerant and sensitive to one another's needs, through the democartically held process, and allow the not-so-informed the chance to say, as well to learn. "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use!" (Galileo Galilei).

Let's not allow ourselevs to go astray from our mission. It is when we do the common things in uncommon way that we demand the world's attention, and not merely by mumbo-jumbo or words. Did you know that Jatland is now being used as a reputed site to quote on issues about our culture, heritage, and history? Do we want to expose our pettiness and substandard conversations?

It is right to admire people for the good in them, but wrong to rebuke them for their shortcomings. It is right to give advice to a human being if he is doing wrong, but it is also wrong not to advise him to do good. Somewhere therein lies the balance of right and wrong, good and bad, acceptance and denial. Just remember that words are powerful, so very powerful that they can change attitudes (for better of for worse), with or without provocation. Be kind with your words, and listen the positive message in things we have in common and in ways to make positive impact on our current and future generations. Our ability is what we are capable of doing, our motivation determines what we do, but it's our attitude that determines how well we do. The greater the loyalty of a group toward the group, the greater the motivation among the members to achieve the goal of the group. So why not keep our personal differences and the fallacies aside for the greater good of the community?

If the unpleasant arguments continue as they have in the recent past, I fear we will loose some well-meaning people who so generously contribute to the survial of this site. Let's hunger for excellence and not be starved by the lack of our poor appitite. "In the end we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends!" (Martin Luther King).

PS: For heavens sake, let's keep the unnecessary humor out of the serious discussions section please!

Sujata

************************************************** **************************************

This was written an year ago...much hasn't changed except for the silence of some friends! Many well intentioned people have bid farewell! Lately I have felt silence is more dignified!

sunil20
June 6th, 2003, 01:24 AM
Sujata,
I fully agree with you. I appreciate your concern. That's all true and nice thought.

sunil

ravichaudhary
June 6th, 2003, 02:48 AM
Sujata,

you express my sentiments quite well,

Thanks


This is just a storm in a tea cup.

The problem is moderation vs non moderation.

Personally I am for as little moderation as possible, for that allows a diversity of views, and sometimes these are expressed with passion.

Where I suggest the line be drawn is at” crassness, rudeness, personal attacks, and insults.”

Sometimes the line is crossed and moderation must happen.

Leaving is not an answer, better to stay and shape the process.

Ravi

shivshikha
June 6th, 2003, 05:14 AM
Sujataji,

First of all let me tell you that I happen to be an ardent fan of your ability to express your thoughts in words. I think you are very eloquent and articulate in your expression and I always make it a point to read your posts . Your command of the english language is excellent !!!

I am glad you broached this issue. I couldn't agree with you more and I think its imperative that we as members of this website refrain from personal and derogatory remarks. Deliberately denigrating someone for disagreeing is unethical.

We all have to take our own responsibility and make sure that the moderator doesn't get the oppurtunity to intervene .

So friends, lets all make a fresh start. Its never too late to do the right thing .

shokeen123
June 8th, 2003, 09:14 PM
Sunil, Ravi and Shikha:

Thanks for the encouraging words and a renewed spirit of hope! I am sure we can weather the storm together.

warm regards...

Sujata