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rajeshsindhu
September 4th, 2002, 10:17 AM
This question has been raised by some Jats( specially by Sikh Jats) multiple times : Why "jatland" is not for Sikh Jats???
What do our jatland members opine on it? Should it be opened for Sikh Jats ? Why and why not?


-Rajesh

proudjat
September 4th, 2002, 10:46 AM
To my opinion, JATLAND is for a more specific group of jats which pictures itself once you log on to this. Though there are many many comparisons and details about different Jats (sikhs, muslims etc.) and also well explained on this site, but how much we can relate to the other Jats. At least I can't !!
We may have similarities with Sikh Jats but we do not have many things in common. And I belive the sole purpose of this site is to bring the people of our community more close and work towards the betterment of our people. Once we have different groups (even they are Jats but they are quite different from the Jatland Lot). And the site would become a total Khichari. We all understand and relate to our Jattoo bhasha.
Though I know in earlier days, many jat families had a tradition for the elder son to grow hair and have a turban and even in my family several arranged marriages are into Sikhs but there is always a line of different traditions which keeps a certain difference.
That's an absolute individual opinion and I look forward to other opinions for making 'JATLAND' a common forum for all sorts of people called Jats or be more specific.
I am not in favour to include Sikh Jats on to our JATLAND.

smalik
September 4th, 2002, 11:55 AM
NO WAY!!
WE SHOULD NT MIX 24 K GOLD WITH SO CALLED SIKH JATS!

rameshlakra
September 4th, 2002, 10:19 PM
Sanjay Malik (Sep 04, 2002 02:25 a.m.):
NO WAY!!
WE SHOULD NT MIX 24 K GOLD WITH SO CALLED SIKH JATS!

well said sanjay # i second u & seema

yvsgaawar
September 5th, 2002, 09:39 PM
Off course the decision of including Jat Sikh to Jatland is entirely depends on the majority vote, but I would like to present my views on the subject. I wouldn't mind JAT Sikh to be part of Jatland. I lived with them and have tasted their nature and behavior. When I was in Firozpur(Punjab) and later in Ambala(Haryana), I had Jat Sikh friends. Actually One of my best friend is a JAT Sikh(MANN Gotra). We were together playing Cricket, Studying, Outing and even fighting. If you ask me, I do not see much difference between a Hindu Jat and a Sikh JAT(Except the religion). Yes we do have different religion, but if you leave the religion aside, they are more close to us then any one else in the world. I have been to Punjab Village, and to Haryana village and Rajasthan Village and UP Village. They are all same in culture, family values, respect for elders and hard work.
And last, if we are interested, we can learn a lot from them.
That's it.

Please Note: The above written comments are not meant to hurt anyone, they are purely my views based on my experience with JAT SIKH.

amitdahiya
September 6th, 2002, 10:31 AM
Bhai Rajesh
Your observations are interesting but when the Mahasabha was being convened and some young Muslim Jat contacted me to participate in it,the bulk of the feed back on jatland was against the idea and many wise members counselled me strongly against the very thought. My submissions on this are as follows.

The Muslim Jats are different from us mainly in their having embraced another faith usually at the point of a sword and rarely but not without exception out of a genuine sense of seeking a new faith. How are the sikhs different especially when they have not changed their faith but infact have evolved a new entity of their own choice and free will. Today any one in the Punjab who dares to speak of Hindu SIkh common entity is threatened with the loss of his life why then should we practice these double standards.

The point you make is not without merit, but a dichotomy in our thinlking is not something we can afford when Jatland is in a nascent stage and still evolving a philosophy for its raison de etre. Let us become intellectually and professionally clear and honest in our own entity before we seek any radical departure from the present course. I like Nitin's Philosophy of giving issues and people the space they need to develop before taking any strong stands. Just for my information what was your own thought on the subject of the young Muslim Jat who wanted to attend the Mahasabha.

Amit Dahiyabadshah

nareshsindhu
September 6th, 2002, 05:40 PM
Bhai Rajesh

A Jat is a jat is a jat.There cannot be Sikh Jat without a Jat.The new group was formed to protect the hindus.it was to save them from Muslims.Basically it is a sect forms by Hindus to protect Hindus.Later on because of the five "K" .Guru Govind Singh gave them a new name Sikh,but they are hindus only.It is not a new religion.Guru Nanak was a Sant Like Sant Ramdas (in haryana)and sant Tukaram(in maharastra)or sant kabir but other sant were not able to start new religion infact they all have diffrent type of principal and teachings.

People followed Kabir are called Kabirpanthi.
Like nowdays we have Rajneesh(osho),Vyas wale maharaj Or ek tu hi nirankar(i am not getting the name of them).

they donot have new religions.Not even Gautam Budh Or Mahavir had new religions.They had different sayings of peace.but they never preached about new religions.

Thanks to Our politician for so many religions.

All Jat from punjab are Jats Like us they just speak different language. Culture and traditions are same even marriages takes places between us.
even in punjab all Jats are mostly farmers.
so why not let them join them.

Even on jatland jats from Rajasthan,UP or MP
can`t chat or involve much like Jats from Haryana Or Delhi.these two states have more Lathhmaar style and people are more extrovert comparetively.

They must be invited !!
Please Note: The above written comments are not meant to hurt anyone, they are purely my views based on my experience with JAT from Punjab..

bharti
September 7th, 2002, 01:27 PM
i too agree with Seemaji and Bhai Sanjay .
why make a khichdi of JATLAND??
sorry, Nareshji i differ with u on this issue.

vardaan
September 8th, 2002, 06:45 AM
well as they say a jat is a jat is a jat probably as many pepl think that there might be a hotch potch of cultures if we invite sikh jatts too but at the same time for hindu jats and sikh jats to be difreientiated at is wrong so a solution to this must be sought after

rajeshsindhu
September 8th, 2002, 11:17 AM
greetings!
here i come to play the devil's advocate!?!

So far, looks like that those who are in favour are appending their stand with some convincing arguments/experiences. But those who seem to be against are relectant to substanciate their stand with some convincing arguments/experiences.
So friends! come up and open your hearts and minds both( let me and others please know the composition of this "khichari"!). Its just a inhouse discussion, and has no bindings and obligations.

-Rajesh

amitdahiya
September 8th, 2002, 05:36 PM
One more reason against the idea may be that the sikhs already have several sites of their own so why duplicate a facility that they already enjoy. Also they have a strong religious base for many of their ideas something that the Hindu Jats do not. So we may be opening a window of vulnerability here wherein the more reticient Hindu Jats who need this forum to find their own voice might be marginalised or diluted especially in the opinion forming process.

The forum could also wind up being hijacked for causes that we do not espouse especially religious ones. On the Blue Star operation the sikh priests were able to provoke one of the finest regiments in the Indian Army to Mutiny and they actually Killed their unarmed CO. On the Ayodhya issue every Tom Dick and Harry have tried to convolute matters by throwing in their two bits worth except the Hindu Jats who have demonstrated the greatest maturity by completely ignoring this messy issue which offers no win-win options.

A SOLUTION To THIS EMOTIONAL PROBLEM
____________________________________
I tend to agree with those who want Jatland to essentially remain a Hindu Jat forum. But why cant we offer an observers facility to all other Jats who may visit the site but not comment on members debates and discussions. They could however leave their comments and opinions on a special Visitors book type of page.

scsheorayan
September 8th, 2002, 05:44 PM
At this stage it does not look like We are ready to have Jat Sikhs or any other group as members.The reason is very obvious that our cultures inspite of similarities have a lot of differences too. Believe some of our educated Hindu Jats are proving handful let us first establish a coherent social group who can identify with Jatland like they do with their own family. One must learn to walk before attempting to run. A visit to one of the Jat Sikh websites will clarify this point beyond any reasonable doubt. Give it a try if you like.

guliya
September 9th, 2002, 08:02 PM
jat land pe sirf woh aaye jo jatu me bol sake

bsangwan
September 9th, 2002, 09:54 PM
I am against including them here.

My personal view is Pubjabi is much more advanced than haryanvi. They have much more places to put their voice. They have more famous songs and movies than us. Moreover they have their own script and litreature. It completely sperates them from us. I personally can't understand their language well. They are Sikh first and Jat second, Here Hindu first and jat second.

We don't have much palces and hence I am not in favour of sharing this stage with them. My veiw should not be mistaken as of low morale.

amitdahiya
September 11th, 2002, 10:35 PM
Bhai Bijinder
I dont know how many Jats are Hindus first and then Jats. My gut feel on this is that we are Hindus in a gentle non polarised and non activist sense. We are essentially Jats first and then Hindus, havent you come across the expression 'Kaum Dharam Desh' I think it clearly spells out our basic but un polarised priorities and position in this regard. But perhaps I am speaking as a Jat whose roots are tempered by the Arya samaj. Jats who are influenced by the Sanaatan Dharma may be inclined to view themselves as Hindus first. Do you agree?

Amit

amitdahiya
September 11th, 2002, 10:43 PM
Durray Rohit! Bhai tu Jatu bolta Australia pahuchliya Kay. Aur ib Jatland tay kis kis nay kaadnaa chaah sai. Teri ya baat kammil konya bhai. Jattu ho ya Angreji Baat aur vichaar badiya honay chahiye bhai.

rajeshsindhu
September 12th, 2002, 10:18 AM
Correct me if i'm wrong...
1. 'Jats' is an ancient _race_(not caste), the race which has survived all times of history by their sheer guts, virtues and spirit. They never followed the perverted/distorted/orthodox form of hinduism( dictated by selfish and cunny brahmins) thus always been thorn of selfish brahmins' eyes. But they believed into the real scriptures of hindu faith i.e. Vedas. Thats why they followed someone who talked about essense of hinduism, like Swami Dayanand, Guru Nanak, Gautam Budha etc. Guru Nanak never intended to establish a totally new sect/religion. He just tried to remove the orthodoxy and blindness, injected by selfish brahmins, from the hindu way of life.
The teachings of Sikhism and Budhism( by Gautam budha) are based on essence of Vedas.
So, i'm not sure about how many jats will identify them by 'Jat hindus', instead of 'hindu Jats'.
2. My personal experience: in college time we use to have 'Jat Group' ; and that group was consisting of both hindu and sikh jats. There was no difference among all the jats hindu or sikh. All were identified as jats only.
3. Socially accepted occurence of marriages among hindu and sikh Jats is biggest testimony of the fact that sikh and hindu jats are Jats first and hindu/sikh later. Cultural differences among hindu and sikh jats as not more than differences among Jats from Haryana and Rajasthan/UP etc.

4. Ya there are reports of life threatening warnings to those who talked about hindu sikh unity; but i think its more of political creation than that of society. Marriages among hindu and sikh jats are still very much happening as they used to be.

5. Politics had already created lot of bad blood among hindus and sikhs( not sparing hindu and sikh jats too), but none can deny the common roots/rituals/virtues shared by hindu and sikh Jats.

6. Ya, probabily we should not open the site for sikh Jats, because of many valid reasons mentioned by other bretherns. but first atleast lets identify our own basis of identification and existence.

Note: no any 'judgemental' tag please.

-Rajesh

amitdahiya
September 13th, 2002, 07:54 PM
Rajesh I agree and im glad to note that finally we enjoy concurrence on a topic.
My feeling is that the water crisis will eventually expand the crack in the Jat Sikh brotherhood. Also I think they hold us in contempt for our smoking habits.

Good wishes
Amit dahiyabadshah

sujatadahiya
September 13th, 2002, 09:01 PM
i agree with you rohit , jatland pai tai woh hi aayee jo jatu bol sake ar samaz sake , na tai bhai taal maro.


quote]Rohit Guliya (Sep 09, 2002 10:32 a.m.):
jat land pe sirf woh aaye jo jatu me bol sake[/quote]

it's the

ram
September 13th, 2002, 09:33 PM
I think I agree with Rajesh.There is no difference between Jat and Jat Sikh. We have same last name and we get along with them whole lot more than Punjabi Hindus ,Brahmin and Bania. In Haryana all these casts get united in all forum to oppose Jats. As far as language is concerened Haryanvi Jats speak different than UP Jats. I also agree with other people that for the time being this site should be exclusively used for Jats(Hindu)

yvsgaawar
September 14th, 2002, 03:36 AM
"I tend to agree with those who want Jatland to essentially remain a Hindu Jat forum. But why cant we offer an observers facility to all other Jats who may visit the site but not comment on members debates and discussions. They could however leave their comments and opinions on a special Visitors book type of page."

I think what Amit Ji has suggested should be a fine solution for the time being??

nareshsindhu
September 14th, 2002, 12:26 PM
Bhai Rajesh

You have put some very strong point which helps all to agree(some may be still disagree)
that A JAT IS A JAT IS A JAT.

In haryana or UP you never say I am from Haryana Or UP,you just say first that you are a JAT.

In Punjab Also a Jat will never say He is a
Sikh.He will say assi jatt Haa !!

So A JAT IS A JAT IS A JAT.

DHANYAWAAD
Tsaaya Maanash

jat_somveer
September 14th, 2002, 04:24 PM
bhai,
saare bhaiyaan ke vichaar padhe.kuchh iske paksh me bolen se to kuchh iske virudh bhi se .
par bhai main to nu a kahoongaa ki ya jatland jaatan ki rahe to badhiyaa se.
baaki bhai mahre te bade ghane a baithe se phaislaa lena unka kaam se.hum to khaalee salaah de sakan saan.

rsdalal
September 17th, 2002, 12:24 AM
Please visit www.jatt.com to get an idea about Sikh jats, how they think.

abhishek
September 18th, 2002, 05:44 PM
I dont think we have anything in common with sikh jats , let it be a hindu jat site.
We are more sensible than them

abhishek
September 18th, 2002, 05:57 PM
.... and after looking at www.jatt.com.... we should not even consider them as jats they are senseless traitors who should be kicked out of india.

my opinion is :NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

abhishek
September 18th, 2002, 06:08 PM
1.they stand for khalistan
and we are for bharat, akhand bharat
deviod of bania-brahminical tyranny.
2.they can share water with pakistan
but not with haryana,they cannot be us.
3.they find hinduism stupid and it is not
acceptable for us .
4. and last but not least for them
jat history starts with sikhism
for us it is long journey from
scynthea to plains of ganga
and yamuna.... our struggles
and our triumphs
salute to jat courage and values for which
we stand and live!

JAT BALWAN JAI BHAGWAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ram
September 18th, 2002, 07:12 PM
This is to tell my jat brothers & Sisters that it was the daughter of a Brahmin(Indira Gandhi) that Prmopted them to seek Khalistan by playing one against another. Bhinderawale was her creation. SYL is a issue that no politcal part want to resolve but using it play Punjab/ haryana game for their own benefits. It was under the unselfish leadership of Ch. Chottu Ram that all Jats(Hindu, Muslim, Sikh) stood together.Don't let one website make your opinion change.We Jats(Hindu/ Sikh) are 3-4% of population but how many ministers / army chief we have or had. It has been and wil be a brahmin/ Bania SARKAR because we are divided and play in their hands.

chashokverma
September 24th, 2002, 09:14 PM
Jats are Jats. They may be from any faith. In the progressing in 21 centuary we should not have reservation like this.

We share common great history. We may have followed various paths but now with the advent of more and more knowledge we have to get rid of such narrow attitudes.

Why only Jats, I dare to say that anyone having genuine interest in Jat culture or history should be allowed to participate.
Knowledge is not any one's patent right. If some one wants to contribute in positive manner why not?

Let us learn from each other.Show maturity. Accept criticism. In modern times unfounded rigidity among the castes has to go.

We can surely make a bigining by including Sikh and muslim Jats in Jatland.com. In fact when I wrote about origin of jats, many of the postings as given in one of sikhnet site gave me a totally new and realistic insight. The strength in modern and democratic setup is in unity not in division. We Hindu Jats have to show some political maturity.

Bharatpur kindom was in real sense strenthened by Raja Badan Singh who for 14 yrs stayed in Jaipur Darbar and who's son was Sooraj Mal. It the time we show political maturity.

ompati
September 25th, 2002, 06:51 AM
My opinion is 'NO'. I totally agree with Seema.

"Bhai Kyon site ka swad bigaran pe tul re so".

Ompati

anurag
September 25th, 2002, 09:59 AM
Bhai mein bhee katee Seema ji er Ompati Ji ki haan mein haan milaaonga.

Baat nyun sai ek eeb taahin jitne bhee sikh jatt mille sain unki gail baith kai batlaawan mein itna swaad na aaya jitna Hindu jaatan ki gail aaya. UP ka, Haryaane ka er Rajasthaan ka...ye teen jat sain jo milte hi connect ho jaawein sain.....

Doosra..ek pehlu yo bhee sai ek eeb to hum sab Humour section mein sardaaran ke chutkale post karlya saan er pad kai raajee bhee ho lyan saan. Eeb socho, er jai sikh jatt bhee aa gaye tai ke banegee....

Baajre ki khichdi mein to swaad sai par aade site pai jo khichdi banaigee usmein wo swaad konya millegaa....

-Anurag

vikasduhan
October 17th, 2002, 05:06 PM
Ya baat to bhai samajh mein na aawe. Jat sikhon ku doosre sikh to sikh hi nahin maante aur tum unhe hindu nahain maante. Unke baalkan ke byah bhi jaaton mein hi howen hain. Unka mhara khoon to ek hi hai, boli badle pai bhaichara to na badalta. yahan sabko aana chahiye. Jat ka dil bahut bada hota hai.

sanjeev_khokher
October 18th, 2002, 11:34 PM
Dear All,

I may not be able to point out any view on this discussion.....BUT I Thanks to all of you for such an important conversation .....I have learned a lot.............

So thanks again and .......... Keep the Jat Sprit up.

Jai Hind

proudjat
October 19th, 2002, 02:17 PM
Its been a much prolonged discussion now without any concrete result. I am of the view, since we belong to this country we do have common things with almost all north indian communities, then why are we talking only for Sikh Jats. Is it because they have the word Jat there ?? That way if we go on finding common things then we could find many many similarities with other communitites as well. Then why not add them all.
I see many of our members saying that we should think progressive and should not be back laid in 21st century etc. etc. So Dear All, if that is the case and we already are so progressive, then why is there a need of any Jatland at all ???????
In the next session - how about comparing ourselves with the Rajputs, we do have common things with them and of course the marriages take place between jats and rajputs...
Going through all views I feel still there is not much substance is adding up the Jat Sikhs and if there is at all, then Jatland doesn't make any sense. ABHISHEK, I do agree with you. What you said is so true !

guliya
October 23rd, 2002, 07:55 PM
hi all

we earlier also had debate about mulla jats in the site, i think reading all views common consensous is that this site is for jats only and if any other community will be allowed here then it will dilute the importance and charm of the site
rohit

abhishek
October 24th, 2002, 01:51 AM
This site is for JATS not JATTS! and that should close the topic once for all.

harvindermalik
October 30th, 2002, 10:04 PM
bhai sandhu.. m teri bat t puri trha agree hu..jat ar sikh jat m beshak bhasha ke lahje ka antar to.. pr h to ek hi..jato me yhi kmi rhi h.. kaththe hon tai phlai..zagda... sikh jato ne jat nam ko universal recognition diya h..ye dunia me hr jgha phunche h..aap inke punjabi gane suno.. jato ki kitni badai gate h jato ki.. gurdas man.. harbhajan man..they all are jats..and they all are very proved on being jat... maf kriyo bhaiyo..pr mumbai me 10 saal ke anubhav se bta rha hu ki desi jat to kitne hi aise h jo bahar aate h to btane se ktrate h ki wo jat h... pr in sikh jato ne to london ho ya NY har jgah jato ka nam roshan kiya h...

ram
November 3rd, 2002, 11:01 PM
I agree 100% with Harvinder. Also they will be rather mix with Hindu Jats than Punjabi Hindus. They have lots of respect for Jats of Haryana.

mskhatkar
November 4th, 2002, 06:07 PM
I believe Jats can be most logically represented by a race sharing a common gene pool. Faith, region and religion may change with time but blood/gene is really a stable entity.

If we try to divide on different bases, then we may end up as individual. I favour a respect to Jat race while discussing such issue.

So called other jats may have their own such sites, but if somebody wants to go with us should be welcome.

amar0974
November 8th, 2002, 06:25 PM
Main to Bhai Itna He Kahoonga ke
Many(Sikh) Cook(Jats) Spoils the Dish(Jatland.com)

jaatni
November 8th, 2002, 11:49 PM
as far as i think this site should remain solely for hindu jaats.i have been in contact with many sikh jatts n really ,frankly speaking they don consider ourselves n themselves as ONE.most of the sikh jatts criticize hinduism.(mazaak udate hain).agar koi unhe keh bhi de ke jaat n jatt are same they strongly oppose n object the point.n this site is really a wonderful place for jaats ,by jaats and to jaats.n we should'nt spoil it.

kharub
December 2nd, 2002, 12:18 AM
I believe that Jat Sikh are no different than Jats, as we share the same culture and everything else.
so i will welcome the inclusion of Jat Sikhs in Jatland.Com

dkumar
December 2nd, 2002, 11:35 AM
Dear All,

I strongly oppose inclusion of Sikh Jats at jatland for the reason mentioned by other honourable members! My personal experience also let me learn that they strongly feel themselves different from ourselves!

Further, After going through all the posts under this discussion the conclusion I see is We Shouldn't allow anyone except Hindu Jat to be a member though we may welcome others(Sikh Jatts) as guests only!

kharb
December 3rd, 2002, 03:16 PM
Bhai Vishavjeet,

Hum donon key surname kuch jyada hi nazdiq sey hain. Iskey peechay bhii koi kahanhi hai key.

akdabas
December 3rd, 2002, 10:53 PM
Bhai,

Sikh aur JAT kade bhee ek jise nahin ho sakte. Haan unka culture jaroor milta julta se lekin phir bhee bahut alag hei.

Some differences.

1. dharam
2. bhasha
3. pagri
4. Music
5. Dance

etc. etc.