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ranjitjat
September 16th, 2002, 10:03 PM
I appeal to all brothers& sisters
Please get rid of three evils.
1 DOWRY
2 DRUGS
3 DRINK- ALCOHALISM _DARU
and help the society & humanity.

I fought all my life against these 3 evils.
I am saying under oath in front of you all & ALL MIGHTY GOD THAT I WILL FIGHT UP TO LAST AGAINST THESE 3 EVILS
I need your prayer & co-operation in this noble
mission.
I suggest we should make a rule to all our members that they all have to take a oath against these 3 evils.
So that we can save our great jats value & human values.
This will be great service to KOM ,COUNTRY, WORLD&MANKIND.
Your view please
GOD BLESS US HAPPY LIFE & WISDOM
JAY SHRI KIRSHANA
JAY JAT BALWAN JAY BHAGWAN.

scsheorayan
September 17th, 2002, 08:34 AM
Thanks Dharam pal jee for high lighting these problems which are on the rise. You will not find many supporters to your crusade but I will support you whole heartedly and wish you luck because we need a lot of it to fight them.Let us see how many followers we have.

yvsgaawar
September 17th, 2002, 06:20 PM
Dharampal ji and Subha ji,
I am with you in fighting these menaces of our society. I may not support Dharampal ji's following suggestion:

"I suggest we should make a rule to all our members that they all have to take a oath against these 3 evils.
"

I feel, let the member do the soul searching themselves, before taking oath. As they are the one who has to keep their words.

amitdahiya
September 17th, 2002, 07:01 PM
Dharamplaji Cheers! ... I beg your pardon Three Cheers!.

ranjitjat
September 17th, 2002, 08:31 PM
Dear Shubha chand Ji
Yagyavir - Amit Bhai
Greetings ramram
Thank you for your co-operation in this noble mission.
This is only appeal. Any rule about Auth to members
will only apply after soul searching if all the members are happy with it. So please feel free.

ranjitjat
September 17th, 2002, 09:26 PM
Bahino & bhaio RamRAM
Dowry ky bala hh isaka samaj pak kasy bura asar ho raha isaka result geet ky Jatuu bhasa mae sunana.

IIas dowry ki phatkar ny doobaya Bharat Saraa II
Samdhan ny bulaya samandhi bathh kar sajhawan lagi
Dowry ki list sarii samadhii ko pak dawan lagi
10 lakh KALU ki Padhaee lagy kharchy bhi ginawan lagi
1000 barati hogay- gifts- band baja batlawan lagi
inter net cafe khulawa dhy Site bhi batlawan lagi II dowry KI phatkarny---------------------------------
Noida mae plat kharid dy-basantbihar- gurgaun mae kothi ho
Italy ka bastu furnicher chahiya- sath mercedes gadi ho
Maruti sagun par laengy-maera set- kunaby sary ki Angudhi sony ki ho.
500 teel silk- khadi ki- 500 kambal uni- aur- suti ho
Mearidian mae fyray hogy- morya-seraton mae reception ho
Neg jog sary 5100 ky hogy dhol ky dankay shadii ho
Baki DAN adar maansy jobhi daegy- AKHIR BAETI THARI HO
YAH SARI MANAGG PURI NA HOGI TA BILKUL NA HU PHYRAY HO
SAMADHI KAHA KI AKAL PADA HH-AAKH SI DIKHAWAN LAGI
TAERI CHHORI NY KONYA BIHAUU NU KHAKAR DHAMKAWAN LAGI

LIKAD HAMARY GHAR SY BHAHARNY KOE TOHALY AUR
THHIKANA II
IESS DOWRY KI JHANKAR NY DOOB DIYA BHARAT SARA II
SAMADHI KY DIL KY GUJARI YO HAL PADHO PART TWO MAE HO II

ranjitjat
September 18th, 2002, 09:43 PM
SOCIAL DRINK IS ALLOWED TO GOOD BOYS>>>>>>>>>>>

jataljaat
September 19th, 2002, 11:14 AM
hi all members
good to read about eradicating these three eveils which had been discussed in the article.
Dowry custom is a black spot on our country n culture n which we are living in and so are the drugs which are destroyin d younger generation n has claimed vulenerable lifes.
but itz upto a person and his thinking in whatever he do.we cant change the minds,but we can change d way of thinking??
it is very important for all of us to first look inside ourself n we all should not behave in a hypocritical way.
AND the most important thing is that using the words like 'KAUM' OR 'COMMUNITY' doesnt sounds good in d 21st century..
let us rise above all these n work for making the world a better place to live in.
cheers
singh

ranjitjat
September 19th, 2002, 02:31 PM
Dear Kamalsingh- welcome ramram
Thank you for your contribution.
Please suggest what name sound good for JATS-JATLAND-CASTE-KAUM- COMMUNITY IN 21th CENTURY.
What way the name help on this topic.
3 evils will be 3 evils in any part of the world all the time. Jats are also part of the humanity.
Charity begins from home .
We are talking about jat as a human race on jatland.
If Kaum-JAT- & community not sound good than how the jatland- jat samaj sound any good.
your view please & take it lightly

ranjitjat
September 20th, 2002, 02:47 AM
Dear Kamal singh
Thank you clearing these points.
I got your personal message. Thank you for support and great thought about jat history.
We will work for greater unity of JATS.
United we stand together on all major issues effecting our community.
God bless you all&me too

ranjitjat
September 23rd, 2002, 06:00 PM
Dear ALL
2 lines for you
KAn khol kar suno dosato jo kuch kami Kisano mae
TASH KHAYLATY -DARU PITAY BATHHAY 2 CHOPATO MAE

KHAGAD JHHOOTAY BADDAEY RAHATY IN KI BADDI DHANO MAE
PADHHAE PER KHARACHNAHI KARTY_ LOATATAY COURT-THANOO MAE.

ranjitjat
September 24th, 2002, 05:43 PM
True DOWRY is right Education to your children.
Treat your son and daughter equal =
TRUE DAAN to daughter is right Education
TRUE DAAN TO IN-LAWS is KANYA DAAN

here 2 wise words

ANAPADHH BHAU AVA TO SATH LAVA TOTAA
TOTAA-MOTAA-KHOTAA YA DUNIYA SARI JANNNN.

ranjitjat
September 30th, 2002, 10:07 PM
Kadardano ki saewa mae 2 lines.
Ghar- Gharasti ko chlany ky liya
Gadi ky dono pahiyo ka == hona jaruri hh. BHAI RAYYYYYYYYYYY
1 pahiya HO CYCLE KA
AUR 2 dusara pahiya tractor ka
ho to gadi nahi chalay gi.
BHAI RAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
UUS GHAR KI GADI KO
SIRAF BAROSA RAM KA
BHAI RAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Sarabi adami tractor ka pahiya hi hota hh.
Pahalay daru pita-jhagadata- vad mae rota hh.

Ho jata hh patan gharasti yogya sushila nari binaa.
Yogya SUSHILA Nari kar kaya?????????
Phadhay-likhry- IT-MBA BHARTAR BINAA.

JATLAND BHI SUNNI LAGAGEE----
DHARMPAL KI KAVITA-SAYARI- GHANA BINAA!
JAIHIND

akdabas
October 2nd, 2002, 07:16 PM
Wah....Wah.....Wah......Dharmpal ji,

Kati ND baat kahi hai aapanai.

urmiladuhan
October 3rd, 2002, 02:59 AM
[quote]Dharmpal Singh Dudee (Sep 18, 2002 12:13 p.m.):
SOCIAL DRINK IS ALLOWED TO GOOD BOYS and girls!
:)

ranjitjat
October 3rd, 2002, 03:32 AM
Uramil ji
I only said to good boys not girls
Only boys have this problem.
I only said to cheers up.
There are 100 widows in one village alone in Haryana. They are3 generations of one family in some houses.

ompati
October 3rd, 2002, 07:02 AM
Dharampal Ji,

It is a good start. Keep it up. But it is difficult than said or written. Sometime we can not oppose it in our own house. If someone in our family is in this habbit, he will not listen to us. I think it is up to individuals. I have seen cases where a Father has not touched smoking or drinking whereas his sons are having both. What to do. No way out because they do not listen. A very big problem with no solution.

Your attempt is good because by this way we can take extra care and keep on trying to eradicate these evils.

Ompati

scsheorayan
October 3rd, 2002, 08:58 AM
The problem is as old as human race. It is self destructive streak in all human beings and Jats have got better than fair share of theirs. All is not lost, some do learn with time for others it is too late. It is punishment for rest of the family as well. Following are some suggestions which could help cope with this problem.

* Denial by the addict is the most common phenomenon. Individual will never admit that he has a problem.

*Other responsible members in the family must understand that the alcoholism is a disease and is beyond reasonable control of the addict. Getting angry will not help and medical intervention and rehabilitation must be arranged at as early a stage as possible.

*All said and done prevention is always better than cure and parents have to exercise greater control over the behavious and company of growing up boys that is when they pick up this habit mostly.

Be Firm
Be understanding

How can you be both at the same time? Yes you have to act as the situation dictates.

ranjitjat
October 3rd, 2002, 05:49 PM
Hey Urmil ji
Naughty but nice
I said social drink is allowed to good boys.
and you paste -and girls.
= equal right. If you like i will allow you to add.

DAWA-DARU is allowed on medical ground.

Maeri class NEEM PER CHAD GAE THI.
Apany students ko bapis class mael any ka---
NEEM SY utarany ka Majak THA--------------
3 cheers

ranjitjat
October 4th, 2002, 05:45 PM
Dear Shubha chand ji- Ompati ji &all

Thank you very much for your support & suggestions.
I am grass roots worker & done some ground work in this field. I do some action first and talk later as a information & message to community.
People now know & understand that this is a medical problem due to NASA BIRODI MOVEMENT OF ARYASAMAJ & OTHER SOCIAL ORAGANIZATIONS.
Swami Omanand ji is giving free medical help every tues day at GURUKUL JHAJHAR.
He also opene a free health centre at Bhadra -district
Hanumangarh-Rajasthan
Swami Yoganand ji is giving free medical help at Arya Samaj mandir LUHARU-HARYANA.
Sant Tara chand ji maharaj had started medical help from Radha SAWAMI SATSANG ASHRAM- ROHTAK ROAD -BHIWANI very close to our home.

Now Maharaj Kanwar singh ji is giving free medical help
at RADHASAWAMI SATSANG- DINOOD-BHIWANI-HARYANA any time.
I am supporting above welfare projects.
Many people are getting the benefit .
But some time they stop treatment& become alcoholic again.
They need more support-help & understanding from family-friends-& public.

ranjitjat
October 15th, 2002, 06:49 PM
SAMANDHI KY DIL PER KY GUJARI
KADARDANUU KKI SEWA MAE 2 LINE HH

Samandhi Maan mae sochan laga bhaio ky mae jaat jagi
CHHORI ka rista tut gaya tt Karod rupee ky batt jagi
Soch samaj ky bola Samandhi taera ooran tt ky ghatt hh
20 kila nahari dharati sab bato ka thathhtt hh
10 lakh ky gaehu- chawal 2 lakh ki sisam latth hh
1 lakh ki 4 jhhottee baechu khadi kar garnatt hh
10 lakh ky chany-sarsum 11 lakh ky EEKH- GUUAD-LATT HH
10 lakh ky truck- tractor 1 lakh ky pilang-khat hh
6 lakh ky 4 wheelar- taeel ka kohalu- 1 lakh ky CHAKI PATT HH
Baki ka mae karja laelu- pados mae baniya ki hatt hh.
Ky bujhagi chudhrayan maeray uttha raha GARNATT HH
Bah RANG lauu KALU KY BIBAHA MAE-TAERAY KAHAN KI HI BATT HH.
CHUDHRY SAHIB NY SHADI KY MAE LA DIYA SARA LANA-WANA
Lalaji ny BAYAJ per Bayaj lagaya karajy ka nahi raha thhikana.
Pher Chudhry per aggy kaya biti sara hal bhaio sun khar jana
Samajdari ki batt yah hh iesa risata pher mat nahi nibhana.

ranjitjat
November 26th, 2002, 01:54 AM
Sarabi ki bhau ??kahati hh

maery sune ly pati harjae
Taery nahi samaj mae aaye
Roj pipikar tanay sarab
sayhat karali taan kharab
Tanay nahi kari maeri sunaye
Taeri nahi samajh mae aaye
Mata pita ki fhuk di naek kamae ho
Dharati sari padhan bidhae saram kati na aaye ho
Tuum maeri tarakay laegaya
Kalaeja maera khadhh ky laegaya----
Ho kaday khae na taeri kamae ho------
Teari nahi samajh mae aaye ho-----

kantalamba
December 9th, 2002, 03:42 PM
dharampal ji
last time when i went to india in haryana
the young boys were playing cards. and had drink with them when i ask them to pray god or do the good things they told me " bhainji betho aap ko batate hain ki sharab main bhee bhagwan hai -- kaisai to suno
whiski main vishnu base
ram main raja ram
brandi main brahma base
thare main hanuman
ajkal haryane ka to yahi culture raha gaya hai

ranjitjat
December 10th, 2002, 05:59 PM
Kanta ji
Welcome to jatland - thank you for sharing your thought. You are right 3 evils are growing now become 6.
CRIME OF ALL TYPES ARE INCREASING
GANG WAR FARE
MURDER OF GIRL CHILD BEFORE BIRTH
AND MANY MORE SOCIAL EVILS ARE ON THE
HEAD LINE.
WE HIGH LIGHTED FEW HERE_ BUT HARDLY ANYBODY CARE .
ONLY GOD

raj2rif
December 11th, 2002, 03:21 AM
Dear All,

Firstly, I congratulate Dudee Ji for bringing up a very important topic for discussion. I agree with you to eradicate these evils from the society, but I also agree with Shri Yagyavir Singh ji that it should be left to members. My congratulations to Urmila Ji also by bringing in the equal rights for girls as well.

I am also happy to see that Shri Subh Chand ji is back on the site and we all can really benefit with his experience.

I would also like to add Smoking to it. In fact smoking had harmed the community equally badly as the other three evils.

ranjitjat
December 18th, 2002, 09:54 PM
Dear Col Tevathia JI
Thank you very much for enlightment on this subject.
We high lighted many evils including somking. in one of local song like this.

Kan khol kar sunoo dosato jo kuchh kami kisano mae
TAS-CARD khalaty hukka pitay bathhy2 chopaloo mae
Khagad jhotay badaye rahaty inaki baddi- dhanoo mae
Padhaee per kharach nahi karty- lutaty kachhari- thano mae.

NOW WE NEED SOME ACTION IN THIS FIELDS

ranjitjat
January 4th, 2003, 09:43 PM
A jat SWAMI MAHATAMA who started NASAVIRODI MOVEMENT IN HARYANA TOLD ME.
Swami ji ny kaha ki jab manae yah andolan saru kiya to Delhi ky sahari lalas- Panjabis ka delagate aya aur mujh sy parathana karany lagay- SWAMI JI aap kaha chakar mae padgaye- andolan ko khatam karo.
Swami ji ny kaha-GARIB KISAN ujad rahay han-sarab pikar
BANIYO NY KAHA- KON GARIB ? JATS MARATY SARAB PIKAR- MARANY DO JATOO KO_ UNAKI JAMIN HAM KHARID LENGY-AAP RASTY SY HAT JAO YAHI AAKHARI PARATHANA HH.
Swami ji ny kaha ki Baniyo ko yah nahi malum tha ki
mm JAT pahaly hu -AUR Swami vad mae.
is ghatna sy bhi JATS NAHI SAMAJHATY KI_ SARI DUNIYA KI NAJAR UNAKI JAMIN PER HH.
JIS DIN UNAKI JAMIN PER HOTEL CASINO BAN GAYE...... AGALI DUSTO KI NAJAR JATOO KI LADKIYO PER HOGI.
YAH WARNING BHAGWAN- SAINT- MAHATAMA - SWAMI JI YO KI TARAF SY JAT KOOM KO>
KI SAMAYA RAHATY JAT VIRO NID SY JAGO
RAM -KIRSHAN KI SANTAN KI AZAD BHARAT MAE YAH
DURGATI.
BHAGAN BHI RAKSHAK JABHI HOGA -JAB JAT NASAY KI NINAD SY JAGKAR APANI RAKSAYA AAP KAREGA.

ranjitjat
January 28th, 2003, 11:50 PM
Pher Bahin- Bhaio Samadhi- Samdhan ka sunoo hall
Dowry mae kami rah gae samdhan ko bar 2aave khayal !!!!

Honeymoon ky reception pet ikathhay ho gaye sary utt
Kalu ki party mae sarabi yo ka karda baja Jutt !!!!
Ghar ka aakhada ban gaya- GANG ka batth gaya sutt
Kalu ky seep per bhi - chadd gaya DARU KA KARDA BHUTT !!!!

Kalu ki IT Degree bogus paye-Ghar mae aan utra thana
Rojana totay mae jutt bajj- bhau ko stove ki bhet chadana
Stove phat gaya-Stove phetgaya- Sasu bana rahi bahana
Dowary mae liya vah chopat ho gaya-
Sary kunaby ko padda Jail mae jana !!!!!!!!!!!
Dharam- karam- Sachai bhul gaye- yu bigada jat samaj sara !!
Dharmpal khandani bhul gaye- yu dubaya jat hamara !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

ranjitjat
May 19th, 2003, 10:13 PM
The all India Gujar mahasabha in a Maha panchyat at Panipat Haryana this month passed a Anti- Dowry Resulation with 100 % people against Dowry.
Every member took oath never to give dowry or accept dowry in future.
They also have simple marriage ceremony for 101 young couples with common religious havan ceremony & kanya dan of rupees 101 only.
Our community & jatsamaj can also learn from their experiences.
Time has come. this is wake call to all Indian.

sanjaychhikara
May 19th, 2003, 10:35 PM
Dudee uncle ji,

I also red that news and indeed we can learn a lot of their new system; they even punish families who demand a dowry. It’s quite a success

rkumar
May 19th, 2003, 11:38 PM
Dudee Sahib,

This discussion on this topic started before I joined Jatland and I read the contributions from members to this topic only today. My views are;

1. Only few people make or break the societies contrary to what most people think. Therefore, if we have even 3-5% dedicated , high moral, courageous people in the community, I am sure its a progressive, healthy society. It is this 3-5% which leads the community and acts like a adhessive among the members of the community.

2. Contrary to above is also equally true. Its only very few bad people ( again 3-5%) who spoil and break the community or even nations. Majority of populations always remain non-involved in the affairs of community or nations.

What India lacks really is the committed leaders and not the intelligent people. My personal beleif is that its the so called educated class which has let down our country much more than the illiterates. Educated people who are supposed to act as binding force in the society, simply run away from their responsibility, with the result that the society is getting fregmented day by day. The greed of money has incresed the distances among people. Dowry is nothing but greed/ quick money.

Dudee sahib !! your job will be done even if this discussion motivates few people. As told above, its only these few people who matter and not the entire mass. Entire mass will just follow these few people. If these few people are good, the masses will emulate good things and vice verse...

Let me just remind the members that its the quality of team leader what matters the most and not the quality of team members. A good leader can motivate any team. Take the example of Lord Rama who defeated the mighty King Ravan with a army raised from jungles... Nations, societies, communities are built by great leaders..If people can not be led, one should not blame the people, but leader...

I know, the topic is complex and views expressed can be as diverse as anything..

Rajendra

ranjitjat
May 20th, 2003, 08:43 PM
RAJENDER JI
Thank you very much for your support.
very wise thought. We need more awakening.
We need more and more active people in this field.
cheers

ranjitjat
May 20th, 2003, 08:47 PM
Dear Sanjay
you can copy and paste this news and any other positive news on this subject- under this heading.
cheers

sanjaychhikara
May 20th, 2003, 11:35 PM
I have found the artice which dudee uncle ji mentiond earlier on it was in the NCR tribune of 17 may last.
--------------------------------------------

Anti-dowry drive among Gujjar
community gathers steam
Tribune News Service

Panipat, May 16
Despite certain violations by vested interests the ambitious anti-dowry campaign launched by the Rawal gotra of the Gujjar community in the district with much fanfare early last year is going from strength to strength.

In fact, the community was planning a renewed campaign to rid society of the dowry menace later this year when the marriage season commenced.

The violations were too minor in nature and the campaign was on its way to spreading its wings in the whole state, claims an influential leader of the community on condition of anonymity. In fact, the violators had already been punished as their marriages had not been attended by the village elders, thus in a way socially boycotting them.

The fact that the ambitious campaign has got step-motherly treatment from the state and central governments and the NGOs pains the community leaders, who

started the trend-setting campaign for one of the most backward communities in Haryana. "We may be politically insignificant in Haryana as Jats call the shots in the state but the campaign should have got the whole-hearted support of the Chautala government, which claims to be the farmers' government", said another community leader. The leader conceded that only the media, predominantly The Tribune, had taken pains to promote the campaign.

A few violations should not be seen as curtains for the campaign, sources said, adding that the real test for the campaign would be later this year when the marriage season commenced.

The community had planned an elaborate programme to get rid of the violators and the vested interests. Since the campaign had assumed the role of a movement, little resistance would not have any effect on its success and the months to come would show that it was taken to its logical conclusion since it had the support of the majority of the community, Mr Ham Singh Bapoli, an influential leader of the community and the spirit behind the campaign, told NCR Tribune.

Earlier last year, the Rawal gotra villages had devised ways and means for conducting dowryless marriages with a view to nip the evil of dowry in the bud. At that time also, sporadic protests by the vested interests tried to derail the campaign but without any success. The apathetic attitude of the state government and the NGOs for not helping the campaign came in for severe criticism at various meetings.

It may be noted that the Rawal gotra had launched this ambitious project with a view to checking dowry and giving relief to the common man earlier last year. Under an ingenious system developed by the Gujjar community a marriage, which earlier cost a few lakhs of rupees, could be solemnised in a couple of hundred rupees. The same was true of the functions after the deaths of elders and other deaths in the family and the decision had been widely appreciated by different sections of society.

Under the system elaborate guidelines had been worked by the community for solemnising marriage and other functions. The violators face the punishment of social boycott.


http://www.tribuneindia.com/2003/20030517/ncr1.htm#9

ranjitjat
November 5th, 2003, 06:11 PM
DEAR SANJAY
Thank you the information.
Now more and more Sanskari people coming forward and speaking against these evils.
This is good progress, but we need more positive action also.


CHEERS

jitendersingh
November 5th, 2003, 09:54 PM
Not only these three evils Dudee Uncle-

I propose one more:
"Smoking!!"

sanjaychhikara
November 5th, 2003, 11:18 PM
Bihar orders Govt servants not to take dowry

The Bihar Government has given strict orders to all state employees not to take any dowry when getting married.

The state Cabinet amended the Bihar State Prohibition of Dowry Rules, 1998, in Patna on Tuesday, making it mandatory for all government employees to give it in writing that they were not taking any dowry, Cabinet Secretary Jayant Dasgupta told the media in Patna.

Under the new rules, the bride, her father and the groom's father will also have to sign the declaration, vouching for the veracity of the government servant's claim.

The groom's parents will have to submit a list of "gifts" given to the couple at the time of the marriage within a month of the wedding.

District Welfare Officers would now act also as Dowry Prohibition Officers. They will be vested with powers to investigate dowry cases, including recording of evidence.

http://www.indiaexpress.com/news/regional/bihar/20031105-0.html

ranjitjat
November 6th, 2003, 12:31 AM
DEAR Jitander thank you.
Yes smoking is bad-for health.
Also all kind of DRUGS
DRINK & DRIVE IS MOST DANGEROUS.
I do not smoke. This is also good that jat girls do not smoke. 50% of jat boys not smoking.

DO NOT SMOKE BE HEALTHY& HAPPY

CHEERS

ranjitjat
November 6th, 2003, 11:39 PM
Dear Sanjay.
Thank you very much for the information.
Wake up JATS.

ABHI TO RABADI BHI JAG GAE.
JAGOO JATS_ JATNIS
TUMBHI JAGO.


Cheers

kanya
November 7th, 2003, 05:07 PM
namaste,

It is good to see that people on this site are thinking positive. Well, talking about evils in our society, once i was looking for property rights according to hindu law. I came across one site and it was posted by some muslim woman. She compared hindu and muslim woman. She stated this:
The Hindu Woman:
1. The laws and rights of marriage and divorce (if at all) are undefined or varied for the Hindu Woman leaving her with none or very little advantage.

2. The same applies for property or inheritance rights. Males make and absorb all claims.

3. Choice of partner is limited because she can only marry within her own caste; moreover her horoscope must match that of the intending bridegroom/family.

4. The family of the girl has to offer an enormous dowry to the bridegroom/family.

5. If her husband dies she loses value in the family/society. Sati (being cremated with her dead husband) is a possible exit/recommendation. Since today's law forbids Sati, society mainly punishes her in other "holy" ways (see below).

6. Remarriage is a big problem.

7. The widow is considered to be a curse and must not be seen in public. She cannot wear jewelry or colourful clothes. (She may not even take part in her children's marriage!)

8. Child and infant marriage is encouraged.

9. A woman is brought up to believe that she must look upon her husband as a god (Pati Parmeshwar).


The Muslim Woman:
"Their Lord responded to them: "I never fail to
reward any worker among you for any
work you do, be you MALE OR FEMALE,
YOU ARE EQUAL TO ONE ANOTHER..."

Quran 3:195

1.The Muslim woman has the same right as the Muslim man in all matters including divorce.Quran 3:195

2. She enjoys property and inheritance rights. (Which other religion grants women these rights?). She can also conduct her own separate business.Quran 4:7

3. She can marry any Muslim of her choice. If her parents choose a partner for her, her consent must be taken. Quran 4:24-25

4. The dowry in Islam is a gift from a husband to his wife .Quran 4:4

5. A Muslim widow is allowed to remarry, and her remarriage is the responsibility of the Muslim society. Quran 2:234

6.Mixed marriage is encouraged and is a mean to prevent racism creeping in society.Quran 4:25

7. A Muslim mother (and father) is given the highest form of respect. Quran 17:23

8. Marriage is between consenting adults. Since marriage is a more significant institution than a financial one which needs maturity, see 4:6. Maturity and understanding is required for marriage as much.

9.God teaches clearly in the Quran "...do not reverence human beings; you shall reverence Me (God) instead...." Quran 5:44, 9:18

The Hindus are trying to claim that Muslims do not give freedom to their women. You be the judge.
----------------------------------------

My heart could not accept this to be true in real life but still can't we still learn from what others think about us and where there is a possibility change ourselves.

I would like to know if our property rights are so undefined that others (muslims) talk bad about us. What is the true picture of hindu women compared to muslim women today in India or in the world?

regards,


Pushpa


Dharmpal Singh Dudee (Nov 05, 2003 07:41 a.m.):
DEAR SANJAY
Thank you the information.
Now more and more Sanskari people coming forward and speaking against these evils.
This is good progress, but we need more positive action also.


CHEERS

scsheorayan
November 8th, 2003, 04:57 PM
Dear Pushpa,

Should we believe every thing we read ? Is it always true. It is not what is said that is important but who has said it and why he/she has said it, is some times more important.

We all know the position of women in both religions and there is little to be gained from criticising some one to make you feel good. There are good and bad practices in every society and if you are looking for an objective appraisal of comparative merits and demerits of being a Hindu woman and Muslim Woman may be you have to go out side both these religions. Does it make sense ?

It is not only what your religion or law says but what does the society do with those laws that is more important. No society can prosper and be happy by suppressing women.

shokeen123
November 8th, 2003, 11:05 PM
removed by author

scsheorayan
November 9th, 2003, 05:09 AM
Dear Sujata ji,

My apologies for offending any readers who may have interpretted my posting as denial of unjustice to women in general. Not being from a legal profession it is difficult for me to comment on this subject and what I was trying to say is that third party opinion will be more realistic and the question of shooting the messenger does not arise.

From my practical experience I can say that being a woman has it's merits and demerits. Unjustice to women as well as men is not uncommon whether it is India or any other country. By law both sexes have equal rights including right to property. However it remains the fact that a lot of injustice exists in all societies including ours. There are no perfect systems. Any system is as good as people who follow it. Therefore if we want a better system than the one we have the solution lies with us not outsiders. It is wrong to criticise any one. There is no such thing as constructive critisism. All critisism is destructive in nature and puts the recepient on guard. Any constructive ideas are most welcome.

bnashier
November 10th, 2003, 09:40 AM
Pushpa Ji:

So many things may look just fine in books; but it could very well a horror to observe the actual practice. Muslims may say what they wish; however, the facts are not hidden from the world. In Suadi Arabia, the capital of Islam, women have no human dignity or rights by any normal standards. Women can't drive, they are not supposed to walk by themselves even to a grocery store, a man can have several wives (as though women are candy bars), if a women gets raped then the perpetrator could go free and the victim might be stoned to death - it simply is a sick system.

That said, our sytem is no garden of roses. We have serious problems in our Indian society - some of those problems are infact sickness in the society. On papers, women do have equal property rights in india. But, let us think about rights to life and dignity first. Thousands of women are murderd every year in dowry related cases, hundreds of thousand female fetuses are aborted every year. If this is not sickness in the society, then I wonder what sickness is.


Pushpa Singh (Nov 07, 2003 06:37 a.m.):
namaste,

The Hindus are trying to claim that Muslims do not give freedom to their women. You be the judge.
----------------------------------------

My heart could not accept this to be true in real life but still can't we still learn from what others think about us and where there is a possibility change ourselves.

I would like to know if our property rights are so undefined that others (muslims) talk bad about us. What is the true picture of hindu women compared to muslim women today in India or in the world?

regards,


Pushpa


Dharmpal Singh Dudee (Nov 05, 2003 07:41 a.m.):
DEAR SANJAY
Thank you the information.
Now more and more Sanskari people coming forward and speaking against these evils.
This is good progress, but we need more positive action also.


CHEERS

jagmohan
November 10th, 2003, 12:13 PM
Respected Dudee Saheb, Budh Bhai Saheb and Dear All,

It is such a satisfied feeling to be back amongst our very own that I can't put it in words. During a fortnight that I spent in Haryana, Western UP and Delhi, it was painful and unfortunate to see the social evils we are discussing, in action.

Dowry taking and giving is in full swing. Half the village is drunk in the day time and the other half by night. Our sisters and mothers are doing manual labour in the fields and our young generation doesn't know what to do. (By no means this is a general statement) Those who are lucky to have received education and believe in dignity of labour have a chance to make something out of their lives.

The point I am trying to make is that we can keep discussing ways of eradicating these evils on this web site, but the people who can make a difference is you and me. We have to take a pledge not to become part of the crowd. The crowd is huge, large and threatening. We are few but then I agree with what Rajenderji has said.

I agree with Budh Bhai Saheb too.

I have already taken a pledge earlier not to take any dowry when my son gets married. As far as drinks are concerned, well being an ex fauji I have to consume my two pegs of 'Old Monk' every evening. It is like duty actually!!!

All the best

Lt Col JS Malik (Retd)

shokeen123
November 11th, 2003, 07:08 AM
removed by author

kanya
November 11th, 2003, 02:19 PM
Dear Sujata,

I appreciate your mail and others who shared their viewpoints on this matter and i agree with you that there is a need for a tough action for everyones side. I know that that all the evils in the society are linked to each other. If one evil at the base root will be eradicated than slowly slowly other problems might start solving on their own.

For eksample, if all girls get education uptill college level, then by the time of their marriage age they will be more mature. If they could get a job then they could find a lifepartner for themselves (on their own). That will remove the burden from parents shoulders about finding a boy for her (if they are liberal in their view and have good sanskar). School edcuation don't make people educated, it only make them applicable for jobs, etc. I have seen that in love marriages where couple marry in court or temple with one or two witnesses, dowry is not a problem. Even if boys parents don't like it, boys in these matters are more independent and live alone with their wives. If this problem of dowry can be solved by young generation themselves than problem of infanticide and abortion of females will reduce or disappear. Parents should have a right to decide that they can live with their daughters or their sons in old age or whenever they want, so that they don't consider girls as burden. The problem is that people in India (all religions i am talking here) (i don't mean all are like that) have become quite selfish because of poverty and vanity fair - that they want to show off they are superior to other. Parents feel that by raising a girl they are watering their neighbour's garden, because their daughter will be married away and son will stay with them. They live under social stress and as a result make priorities in life like spending money on materialistic things and boys who will provide for them in the futre or will bring all the money back that they have spend on them through dowry. They have forgot that times are changing. There is a need that parents should look at their children with equal eyes. In Jats only, i have seen that they celebrate their sons birthday and never their daughters birthday.

Everyone must join hands and force government to make it a law that all girls will have schools close to their village and communities. They should send teachers and doctors to village but these people will stay in villages only when there will be a infrastructure in the villages like water, roads, transport, electricity, etc. Government cannot produce all this money so all the people should collect money in the towns and villages and cities to make villages in india more comfortable.

In villages i have seen that men usually sleep most of the day and night even if they don't drink. It is time to wake them up and ask them to construct buildings for school, etc. in their free time with their own hands. But who will go and wake jats up? I wish new generation could find in summer holidays.

Secondly, i want that hindu community should have a leader like Shankracharya, etc. to whom people could listen to like other world behaves (i mean pope, etc.). Then he must help in reforming society from within like Swami Vivekanand, Dayanand, etc. did. Daughters are more responsible than sons, thus daughters should be allowed to look after their parents even after they get married. And boys parents can live with their daughters. This trend will make parents realize that they have to celebrate daughters birthday also and give them priority in matters of property, etc. so that they can get returns in the old age. Making law in the courts don't help much at the practical and social level, because often they are misused sometimes by girls family and more often by boys family and in between it is young boys and girls who suffer.

People forget that "Son is son till his wife and daughter is daughter all the life". I have seen that in cities where sons have refused to look after their parents, it is the working daughters who have sacrificed their marriages, etc. to give a better life to their parents.

I hope that this young generation when they become parents could make some difference in the society. Remember that higher caste in India is only 20 % and remaining population live in villages or are not very educated.

We need to organize hinduism and try to reach all villages. And how it has to be done, i am not completey sure. Think about it and take action from home only.

regards,


Pushpa

jagmohan
November 11th, 2003, 05:21 PM
Pushpa Ji and Sujata Ji,

Thank you both for very candid views. We need Jatni's like you to speak their mind. I would like to make a few points though. These may not be in total agreement with your views. But then so what, we still remain one community.

I have said earlier too on this site that one can't change the society, state and country without first changing his own self. The state will keep making the laws for the betterment of the society and we will keep burning brides for dowry. Unfortunately, we are like this only. Our motto seems to have become: DO WHAT I SAY, NOT WHAT I DO.

If only we can learn to use our 'Sanskars' and/or 'Broadmindedness' on ourselves first before preaching the world to practice it. If one believes in Inter Caste nuptials, please go ahead and motivate your children to do so. Don't stop them. But my personal view is that we should not do so ourselves if our parents don't like it. I mean children have a responsibility towards parents. If our parents have sacrificed to give us the best in life, even though they may have been deprived of their necessities, we have no business to hurt thier sentoments. I hope I have been able to express myself.

Then is the question of daughters vs sons. I don't agree fully to the views expressed. I agree there is discrimination and no amount of chin wagging on this site can stop it. One can only pledge not to practice this himself. I don't agree that daughters birthday is not celebrated. Yes, people have forgotten to celebrate their parents birthdays while making sure never to forget their bosses birthday and also carry a nice gift for him!!

I recently visited a fried who is a very senior official in the Hryana Govt. I saw his late father's photograph in one dusty corner while large shining photographs of Tau Devi Lal and OP Chautala occupied the most important space in the drawing room. And that very person will give you and me lectures on community development, upliftment of girl child etc. etc.

I am totally convinced that we have to set personal examples before even attempting to discuss these social evils. Why don't we all pledge first not to let these things happen in our immediate families and then attempt to influence others.

Regards,

Lt Col JS Malik (Retd)

shokeen123
November 11th, 2003, 09:36 PM
removed by author

bnashier
November 12th, 2003, 12:29 AM
Dear Pushpa, Sujata, Bhai Jagmohan and others:

I commend you all for your vivid and powerful statements.

1. Education is a great step for both boys and girls as our rural folks are living in miserable conditions. However, school/ college education itself is no deterrent to this evil of dowry in the society. Let us look around and see what is happening. We see boys with good paper degrees wishing for well educated brides; and for expensive cars etc. at the weddings. Of the girls who are burned to death every year in Delhi alone, how many are educated?

2. It is the moral awakening of the society that is needed. Yes, it has to start at individual levels as Jagmohan points out. On June 2, 2003 I posted a message on this site. Here it is again:

"The Dowry System and YOU!

This message is directed at all the members of Jatland.com. Every person has a special liking or distaste towards something particular. The dowry system in our society pinches me more than almost all things in life. And when you talk to people, they seem to agree to rid of the problem and they generally pretend as though you are talking about some other folks out there. So I have a suggestion for the elite class of Jatland.com members. Those of you who are bachelors, would you resolve to yourself that your self-respect will prevent you from accepting anything other than simple/tasteful food provided by your party when you get married. Such examples by highly educated people will certainly have a greater impact than anything else. Poor people don’t set examples - it is the class of privileged ones that must demonstrate the courage to pave a path which would be followed by less-privileged. The Jatland.com membership is reasonably large to make an impact once each one of us and our friends can join this drive! "

This message got ZERO responses and resolutions from our young educated members.

3. I have administerd 4 weddings in my family: my sister's, two nephews' and my daughter's. Are you ready for this? The total expenditure in all four weddings combined did not exceed twenty thousand Indian rupees. Dowries don't exist in Budh Nashier's world.

4. Our system has become evil. It is degenerating at an alarming rate. Drinking and illiteracy have ruined rural India. Bribery, nepotism, and all sorts of corruption is consuming metropolitans.

kanya
November 12th, 2003, 01:35 PM
Namaste,

It is good to hear views from others. It helps me psychologically to share and hear viewpoints.

It would be good that people who are not believing in aryasamaj could atleast have aryasamaj style wedding. Even if people have lot of money it would be good to act as trend setters and marry in a temple with no pomp and show. With no exchange of gifts, etc. And daughters should get share of their inheritance in the same way as sons get and not in the form of dowry.

Very many people have heard about this samaj but don't know what exactly it is. May be media could help here to make people in villages and cities aware about these type of simple marriages.


regards,


Pushpa

shokeen123
November 14th, 2003, 07:45 AM
removed by author

drnchaudhry
November 15th, 2003, 04:56 AM
Hi! Everybody,
My special thanks to Col. Malik, Sujata Jee and Dr. Budh for their bold statements and passion display.
The murder of the selfconscience is the mother of all evils. The education and independence are the foremost requirements for its survival. To me dowery is a different face of the corruption only.
Let me have my way:

*I do not smoke.
*I do social drinking.
*The tough fight with the corruption when it try to block up my way, keeps me charged.

I am not a part of these evils.

ranjitjat
February 2nd, 2004, 12:51 AM
True DOWRY is right Education to your children.
Treat your son and daughter equal =
TRUE DAAN to daughter is right Education
TRUE DAAN TO IN-LAWS is KANYA DAAN
here 2 wise words

ANAPADHH BHAU AVA TO SATH LAVA TOTAA
TOTAA-MOTAA-KHOTAA YA DUNIYA SARI JANNNN.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The problem of Dowry is very serious at present

dchhill
February 2nd, 2004, 02:11 AM
Hi!!

Good job done. We need more people like you. I can see a new movements being started by this in our community, but much needs to be done. The ignition is done we need more oil for it. I am with you:)

regards
Divya Chhillar

dchhill
February 2nd, 2004, 02:16 AM
Hi !!
I have good nuskaah gharelu one for those who want to quit alcohol. It is for you and if you want it will help you to leave this thing. Everyday in the morning eat an apple this will lessen the feeling that makes you drink. if you do this consistently slowly you will start hating the booze. Meditate, join some spiritual organization these things help. Last but not the least start doing good you will automatically find urself on the right path.

ranjitjat
February 8th, 2004, 10:52 PM
Dear friends
Please think about end result of dowry.

The jats are not far behind in this crime.

The killing of women is the end result of the practice of dowry. A survey by AIDWA on dowry in 16 states last September indicated that dowry has even spread to communities where it was not practised (it is mostly practised in the upper caste urban communities). The study concluded that it is now being practised among the minority community besides tribals and dalits.

ranjitjat
February 17th, 2004, 07:13 PM
M.Com. girl sends groom (12th fail) packing
Our Correspondent

Meerut, February 16
Yet another gutsy girl, Hemlata of Meerut, joined the growing tribe of women who have sent their grooms packing for making exorbitant demands — Nisha Sharma of Noida and Rajeshwari and Ritu Gupta of Meerut.

Hemlata refused to accompany her groom, even after the wedding was solemnised as the latter demanded a dowry of Rs 1.21 lakh.

On a complaint lodged by the bride’s family, the police took the groom Deepak, his father, his brother, his brother-in-law and the ‘purohit’ into custody.

Hemlata, daughter of Hari Singh Lodhi, Meerut, and Deepak, son of Rajendra Singh, Aligarh, had got engaged on February 8.

On Saturday, the ‘baraat’ arrived from Aligarh and the wedding was to be solemnised at Jenis Palace. The groom struck the discordant note by demanding money from Hemlata’s brother to arrange for the drinks of the ‘baratis’. Then, to the shock of the bride’s family, Deepak and his brother-in-law demanded Rs 1 lakh in dowry. Even Hemlata pleaded with Deepak to give up the demand for the sake of her father’s reputation. But Deepak and his brother-in-law were adamant. Both the parties tried to reach an agreement on Sunday evening but in vain.

Meanwhile, an unidentified person informed the police; SHO Brahampuri rushed to the spot and took the ‘baratis’ to the police station. Later, Deepak, his father and brother-in-law and several other baratis were sent to jail on the complaint lodged by Hemlata’s family that the groom had demanded Rs 1 lakh as dowry.

An assertive Hemlata, who holds an M.Com degree, also refused to marry Deepak (12th fail) at any cost. Speaking to the ‘NCR Tribune’, she alleged that Deepak even threatened to light up her ‘lehnga’.

She added that Deepak had not taken the marital oaths during the `pheras’. Deepak’s family, on the other hand, sounded apologetic and said that they were still ready for the wedding.

Another story of a brave girl.
Cheers

ranjitjat
February 17th, 2004, 07:19 PM
Dear Divya
Thank you for your support. You are perfect gentleman. We need more young persons like you in this community movement.

Cheers

ranjitjat
January 5th, 2005, 06:29 PM
DEAR MEMBERS
HAPPY NEW YEAR 2005.
Thank you all very much who took part in this debate.
How many of you are serious on this problem ?
Have you took any action ?
What is your future plan ?
staring 20 more threads every month and taking no action is itself a failure of worst kind.
thanks

jagmohan
January 6th, 2005, 09:46 AM
Dudee Saheb,

Namaskar,

Jo likhya tha us par bilkul atal hain or kar ke dikhayenge.

My young son has decided to marry. He has chosen a girl and we too like her
very much. Who she is would be disclosed at an appropriate time. I have told the girl's parents very clearly and in all the languages they understand: NO DOWRY. I have told them that if I see even one handkrchief, I will walk away from the function. And for your information all my relatives have started telling me "Humne to socha tha ki Fauj chodne ke baad tera dimag theek ho gya hoga, par mere yaar tu te ib bee oaye se".

The marriage is planned in Nov-Dec 2006.

I shall invite those I know for a reception ceremony (the only ceremony, cost of which will be borne by ME) and they would be witness to WHAT I SAY I DO.

In fact I would request JATLAND to nominate representative(s) to monitor the marriage.

As for self, I have refused to attend the marriage ceremonies of relatives where I suspected dowry was given and taken.

Dudee saheb, ek baat main FAIL hogyaa. RUM nahin chhodi jatee. Ar manne konsa kahya tha main peenee chod dyungaa!! Cheers.

Regards,

JS Malik

ranjitjat
January 7th, 2005, 10:12 PM
Dear Col Jagmohan sahib
Namaskar
thank you very much for Kadak Fauji action.
many congratulations for your son wedding and your marriage Anniversary
in advance.
I am glad for 61 posts and 931 people visited the thread.
It will make lots of difference when people like you will take partical action.
NO TO DOWRY IN PUBLIC .
I have nothing against any person.
This movement is against EVILS & for Education .
If 2700 members are serious. this should be a mass movement by now.

With best wishes
Dharmpal