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chashokverma
September 24th, 2002, 09:32 PM
I request readers to contribute their views on the subject?

We the educated Jats carry a great resposibility to show the path by examples to the common Jats who still live in backwardness in our vellages. The issue is critical for our survival in 21 centuary. Land holdings are shrinking. There is lack of quality education. Our behaviour and thought process requires tuning up. Their are many issues which readers may bring it out.

Can we still survive in 21 centuary with our three big weaknesses: SANKAR TORA, GOUNCH MARORA AND SHEKHI KHORA. CAN WE LIVE WITH THESE FALSE PRIDES AND BEHAVIOUR?

your opinion please.

anurag
September 25th, 2002, 05:41 AM
Dear Mr. Ashok,

I appreciate your concerns on this issue. Though I am not competent enough to address this issue (lack of data), but still I have some views on the same. I will take a stand in saying that "No as a community we are not". May be thats why we all are here in this forum to discuss all these issues. The reason for my saying "No" is the number of jats in terms of proportion that I have come across in well placed jobs/professional fields/Good educational institutions.

In my under-graduate engineering college, I had just 5-6 jats in a batch of 310. Same is the case with most of the professional colleges all across the country. All these places are crowded by banias/punjabis/others. When I started working, I rarely came across any jat, once in a while may be . And now I am here in a business school, only jat in an Indian population of 40. Very very low statistics in favor of us. I know that many of us are in good positions, etc but as a matter of fact we must realize the fact that all the jats who are going places are the ones who have been brought up in cities. Hardly any straight from a village.

But if I see the statistics of my father's generation, most of the jats who were in good positions were those who had done their education in village schools. Now the question is why is that not happening today. There might be a few people but the number is almost negligible.

Now when I look at it from the following angle, I might have a point:
Today's situation in villages, as far as schools are concerned, is that most of the youngsters donot want to study. And the reason is that they know they will pass the exams by unfair means. Nakal maarna itna prevelent ho gaya hai ki koi mehnat nahin karna chahta. So how can we expect these folks to then compete with others in today's highly competitive environment. They are all paralized and addicted to this sin.

Reason which I can site is political leaders of today. None of the governments have ever done anything to stop or eradicate this evil. Why should they do that? They know that if these folks get educated, then the likes of Chautala will not be able to harness them for their own political gains in forces like the "Green Brigade".

I would conclude by saying that Jats as a community are not prepared for this. But, yes, a fraction of the population who have advanced are surely the best of the breed and do very well in their respective fields.

-Anurag

ompati
September 25th, 2002, 06:20 AM
Ashok Ji,

What I feel is also 'No' reason because if Jats go the way they are going, then there will be two groups; one highly qualified jats (like those on this site) and the other less or non educated jats from villages. I agree with Anurag that now-a-days children in villages do not want to work hard rather they like to copy in the exams. When I was last in India in March/April 2002, the exams of 10th class were going on. Daily I used to see boys who go with their sisters or younger brothers just to send them 'Parchis' Nakal. When I asked one boy, "what good you are doing for your sister". He said who bothers, she will get good marks and no one will question how she got these marks. Situation is very bad in our villages and we people who are abroad can do very little for them because if we want to change this situation then this should be given full attention to prepare children to work hard.


Omapti

scsheorayan
September 25th, 2002, 08:45 AM
Dear All,
Thanks for raising my favourite topic again.Here is a different perspective which is probably not shared by many readers on this site especially those who consider themselves elite or advantaged.

First of all let me say that if any one is going to survive and thrive in future Jat will be there. The reason is not that Jats are more educated or have more material possession or have superior physical attributes (some of them may be true though) but the fact that Jat culture is winner and so long as we retain that strength come what may this society will survive. Word of caution for those elite aristocrat Jats strength of culture is to be experienced by being a part of it and those who consider themselves to be superior to the rural crowd are really missing on the gist of survival.

Agree that village children are not doing that good in schools is it their fault that environment is not conducive to hard labour (study is lot of hard work) because of love for easy money by whatever means. Copying in the exam is only one example. Each one of us is responsible for creating the right environment including those who are sitting in ivory towers thousands of miles away.

Necessity is the mother of invention and our culture teaches us strength of simplicity and inspires us to be fair and straight forward (remember justice action truth) as long as we have that no challenge is too great.

Have no fear because fear is the worst thing in any society it robs it of self respect and rational decision making. Whether you are a ditch digger, soldier,farmer,engineer, doctor or politician if you are strong and have no fear the results produced by you will be far better than those which you could produce under fear.

Those of us who fear the survival of community must be haunted by their own fears and sense of insecurity which is very infectious. Insecurity up to a level is not bad because it prompts one into action which phenomenon was prevalent in rural environment when population pressure started to build and those who used that insecurity constructively moved to towns or cities and took to education in a big way. Where as the situation now is that this insecurity has gripped the psyche of masses and makes them take decisions purely on short term basis. That is the root cause of the problem that people are in panick and want quick and easy fix. There are no easy solutions and it is a matter of time before futulity of short cuts dawns on masses and the culture takes it's pride of place in every day life. We all can contribute by setting a good example and stop taking short cuts.

chashokverma
September 25th, 2002, 09:56 PM
As has been rightly mentioned the biggest problem facing the Jats is the quality education. It is the orientation of mind which matters most.

In the fast moving information age the Jats by and large are just not geared up to meet the challanges. The criticality of the problem can be judged by the fact that in the many criminal offences in North especially in Jat belts the involvement of Jat boys is clearly visible phenominon. The Jat chora will not beg rather he will prefer to loot.

I know some of the Jat boys who inspite of being educated could not get Job due to lack of Jugar and adopted a criminal way. The repressive approach of the state left no way for these boys except to go more deeper into the criminal world.

Can we do some thing about it. It is a big question?

rajeshsindhu
September 26th, 2002, 09:54 AM
Greetings!
I think the real question is not of survivability of Jat community. Surely the community will survive. But the real issue is - what kind of life will they survive ? what will be their social/economical status in the context of contemporary and foreseeable problems.
There are very potential chances of community being divided into haves(10%) and have nots(90%)in future, if proactive steps are not taken.

-Rajesh Sindhu

anujkumar
October 12th, 2002, 07:15 AM
A very good discussion.

I would like like to add that jats stright from the villages are actually coming! but the rate is low. The reson that I see, for that is that JATS in remote areas lacks awareness. They don't know what are the avenues open to them as there are very few role model in their neighborhood. I know the toppers from most remote area inter colleges in western UP doesn't know how to go about engineering/Medical. IIT is ITI to them. Delhi/UP?haryana Police constable and army are only potnetial option available.

The point I am trying to make here is that many more JATS could make it engineering/Medical and other good fields only if someone is there to guide them.

I think the reason for that is that JATS are very conservative (not in the cultural sense). in the sense that they don't want to try new things. Another reason for it, that I strongly feel about is the interaction between these "well-to-do-very-educated-elite" jats and jats living in rural areas. To give an example, no one from the later categary can possibly access this site. I think many elite JATS no longer care about their root community instead they command respect just to have those roots.

So next time you go to your village don't tell them the way JATS live in america but how they and their kids can better explore the opportunities around them

One more thing JAT lacks poltical leadership (like chandrababu naidu who can take internet to our villages and JATS from letter category can have access to thins site!

I finish with that joke.

Anuj

chashokverma
October 14th, 2002, 06:54 PM
The 21st century poses different rules for generation of wealth. It is not the power of sward or land but ones capability to use information for own advantage. We now live in information age where the rules of business are bit different. The kind of information revolution taking around has amply been highlighted by many authors including Toffler in his book ‘Third Wave’ and has been rightly understood by the many of us. The aim is not to discuss information revolution but to identify the kind of challenges it has posed to Jat community and to find out ways and means to overcomes the problems as also to involve those people on Jatland.com who are the leaders of the present age to show the directions to others.

The importance of Gyana has always been highlighted in India and the same has been the theme of our worship. ASATO MAA SAD-GAMAYAH, TAMASO MAA JYOTIR-GAMAYAH, MRATYO MAA AMRATAM- GAMAYAH But only few urban communities like Brahmans, Baniyas and Punjabis took the advantages of the same. Jats like many other rural communities has taken some time to start reorienting itself to new realities. Few like Sikhs took lead 30-40 yrs back and are way ahead than others. The fact is the Jats are almost 20-25 yrs backward to the present time. In last 20 yrs rapid changes has taken place in the world. There are people who are working at real time with global reach. There are many in India who even does not know how to apply to become a soldier in the army. ( I saw it when I visited my village school). Total lack of orientation and knowledge.

What to do?

The first and foremost is the attitude. SATHI HANTH BARHANA. We must develop an attitude to help each other. Helping does not mean that you give a job to person or give him money. Helping means try to help a person in finding the direction and prompt him to walk. When you try not all will listen to you. Jats by nature are stubborn. You may be questioned. You may be laughed at. But let me assure you that few will take advantage of you and move ahead. We should concentrate on these few. Even if 5% of the people you have advised have taken its advantage the aim is achieved. Let us trigger a chain reaction. We may succeed in exploding our untamed energies for the development. But that’s not possible unless we change our attitude. Let us forget our false egos for the benefit of the community.

Oh I am NRI or green card holder or in Silicon Valley or owning DLF. People only talk to me as they want money or some donation. No dear if you can share the path, which you followed to be a successful man, some of us may be benefited many may not. Let us not get worried about those many people but those few who are willing to walk in the present information age. See Punjabis and Baniyas or Marwaris, when they meet they also discuss opportunities. I am no way saying that we loose our identity and start imitating them. But surely we can learn good points about them, which are of some use to us. I would request some postings on Jatland.com on these lines. Discussing about opportunities. Get networked that’s I think is the one of very important role of this site. Avoid controversies at least on this site.

guliya
October 23rd, 2002, 08:07 PM
Hi all

I think some of th epoints bought out are very critical to us. We have to break tarditional grounds of gong only into agriculture-army-police-roadways-professors in universities.
Many new oppurtuniteis are coming forward and it is alos hearting to see many jats doing thr own business insted of job. Self confidence which i inbuild inall jats should be nortured and I it our duty to work towarsds general upliftment of jats. I am sure all of us in our school, college and work in India hav had commenst on our being jats. When i told in a compnay lunch that i am a jat, some people said I am kidding. They told me jats only know how to fight and talk about only breaking bones. I told them well thats are advantage and now we some of us have best of both ie jat buddhi and expertise to survive in corporate world. Another quality of jats which i have seen is that they are very adaptive and quick to grasp things. This can aslo work towards our advantage in rapidly changing world.

akdalal
October 29th, 2002, 12:19 PM
YES. We jats are prepared to accept the challanges of 21st century.

I am quite optimistic on thia. I request you all to please go back to history. I wish to ask you all only one question. "HAS ANYBODY DEFEATED JATS IN THE PAST ?". The answer is BIG NO.

When we have not been defeated by anybody in past, then why are we feeling defeated NOW.

The BIG problem which we all have to address is WHY WE HAVE NOT CHANGED OURSELVES WITH TIME?

We the JAT community is known for hard work, but now we are loosing these sanskars because of the following changes which has taken in the recent past:

1. Delhi JATS property was acquired by the Govt. or they sold it out to Punjabis / Buniyas ets at a handsome amount. They have money, hence their childrem (The young JATS) do not want to study. Neither the parents are insisting on them to study with a mentality that at the end of the day they have to earn money which they already have.

2. The JATS of other parts mainly Haryana, Rajasthan and Western UP are merely existing to survive for the basic needs. Even the educated jats carry the same kind of mentality. The village children have found out the easiest way of making fast bucks by means of extortion. gun battels amongst them selves. They are still Koop Mandukes.

You can call these as Problems.

We all JATS places at decent positions need to revolutinise the time by helping our JAT Bhais by helping them in getting some sort of jobs. Many of them still work as peons, daftaries, lift man etc and are happy with it. we have to make them understand that they have the caliber to do every thing under the SUN. The only thing they lack is WILL POWER. They accept the defeat even before starting for the battle. We have to take out that fear from them first and I am sure the miracle will definitly take place.

Any takers for this bitter factual challange with me !!!

Regards to all. I am sorry if I have hurt anybody feelings.

Anand Dalal

anujkumar
March 7th, 2004, 06:14 PM
How about about having one more take on this one ?

This should be the agenda of JAT convention(s).

and We are having it right here online!!!

anilkc
March 7th, 2004, 08:48 PM
SANKAR TORA, GOUNCH MARORA AND SHEKHI KHORA...sorry I cud not understand what these are..can anyone explain?

yvsgaawar
March 8th, 2004, 08:43 PM
[quote]anil chaudhary (Mar 07, 2004 10:18 a.m.):
SANKAR TORA - don't know (Could be Head Breaker or Stone Breaker.)

GOUNCH MARORA - Trying to sharpen oneself's mustache

SHEKHI KHORA - Self-pleasing personality.

anilkc
March 8th, 2004, 10:46 PM
Thanks,
YagyaVir Ji,
Ab kuch kuch samajh mein aa aya...
yeh kaun si bhasha mein hai...haryanvi?

yvsgaawar
March 9th, 2004, 12:36 AM
Anil Bhai,
Answer is : “ BRIJ BHASA “ (“ BRAJ BHASA “). BRIJ BHASA is a Spoken Language and Mother Tongue of People living in District Matura, Aligrah, Agra, Bharatpur and Dholpur. Please read following and let me know if you need further details:

#Aryavartan or Central Indo-Aryan languages : These languages of this category are considered the `purest' descendants of Sanskrit, being spoken in Aryavarta, the `pure land of the Aryans', also known as Aryadesha or Madhyadesha. Generally included as separate languages in this family are Braj Bhasa, Kannauji, Ayodhyi, Khari Boli, Bundeli, Bagheli, Bhojpuri.


#Amir Khosrow used the term hindvi in the 13th century, and he composed couplets that contained Hindi. In early times, however, other dialects were predominant in the midlands (Madhyadesa) as literary media, especially Braj Bhasa (e.g., Surdas' Sursagar, 16th century) and Awadhi (Ramcaritmanas of Tulsidas, 16th century).


#The fact is that all pre-Islamic languages of India were referred to as Prakrits, and none of these Prakrits is called Hindi. Hindi was fraudulently used as a cover term to encompass the historically distinct languages of Braj Bhasa (named as `Western Hindi') and Magadhi (named as `Eastern Hindi'. No Prakrit grammarian refers to these as one language. Braj Bhasa or Western Hindi is a derivative of Sauraseni Prakrit, whilst the modern Magahi is a derivative of the ancient Magadhan Prakrit of Ashoka.

#As a literary language, Hindi dates from the 7th century AD. The variety known as Braj Bhasa was the chief literary medium between the 15th and 18th centuries, but the modern literary language is based on a different variety, known as Khari Boli. It is written in the Devanagari alphabet.




anil chaudhary (Mar 08, 2004 12:16 p.m.):
Thanks,
YagyaVir Ji,
Ab kuch kuch samajh mein aa aya...
yeh kaun si bhasha mein hai...haryanvi?

drnchaudhry
March 9th, 2004, 02:22 AM
Friends,

Thanks for showing you care.

Answer lies in the word 'communication'. Its 'yes' if you are having it regularly with your near and dear ones and 'no' in case it does happen only during your holiday visits.
I guess today Jats are everywhere. Those who live in villages are of great caliber. Only thing they need is the right information.

Lets communicate with real people.

uday
March 9th, 2004, 02:50 PM
very well said by Vermaji, sheoranji, Ompatiji and Dalal bhai & others!!

This is one of my MOST FAVOURED topic. Verma ji aapney to kati puchhad per paon rakh diya.


In one village there was a poor JAT family, there were four brothers and some sisters. eldest brother got selected in army as a Jawan and down the line all rest three brothers were also got recruited in army due to the path shown by eldest brother. this family economic background was uplifted as well as repo. got improved within the same village. This is a true incident.

I'm sure if not all atleast some of JATs of this JATLAND.COM are
always ready to help JAT people in getting jobs. I have come across so many REAL NEEDY people who seek guidance or 'legal' help just to get a break. It is true and practical that all JATs are not good in business. Truely speaking I have helped 7 JAT people ( boys \ girls ) in getting them a initial break ( job ). NOT all are in IT line some people I even helped them to get recruited in security ( like group4 etc.) Earlier I had no intention to disclose it but I feel that I should write it so that other people get motivate and help other JATS to get them a proper break.


Down the line when I was going thro' phase of "Zoota gheesai" in getting a job ( break) I was rejected in third round of one interview by Mr. Puri. My only fault was that I belong to JAT community. I was almost selected but last question was " are you a JAT?". I can never forget this question thro’ out my life. Interesting part of this episode is that after 5 yrs. this same person ( Mr. Puri ), who had changed his job to some other company, came to our company with his proposal ( huge amount was involved). I immediately recognized that “ Mr. Puri” and that time I asked my boss to handle this case, I simply rejected his proposal saying that Mr. Puri. I am the same JAT to whom you got rejected and thrown out his papers with a mangadanth “false” claim that this gentleman was offering me bribe. Our Centerhead asked our Security staff to kick him out and with a no entry for future. That was a JAT marood and an answer to thou who hate JATS.

Moreover if you have an aim to help someone in getting a job, touch wood till date all my "aims" achieved 100% results.. may be little time consuming. I rather do a HUMBLE appeal to all this forum members to help our fellow JAT brother sisters to guide them so that they will not fall in clutches of so called "Mr. Puris" in their initial stage of career.

At least try once.. khud main vishwas rakho… aap bhi kisi ki life bana sakte hai..

Help in shaping \ forming someone career ( JAT ) is an indirect help of his whole family and community. Instead of wasting time and roaming in virtuality ( Sikh JAT, Muslim JAT) we should be more constructive in practical things. If 25 % members can do these constructive things then I will really think that this site purpose is achieved otherwise hum donate karke jo site registered karvai hai ( JATLAND.COM) uska uddeshey hal nahi ho raha hai !!!



Ch Ashok Verma (Oct 14, 2002 09:24 a.m.):
The 21st century poses different rules for generation of wealth. It is not the power of sward or land but ones capability to use information for own advantage. We now live in information age where the rules of business are bit different. The kind of information revolution taking around has amply been highlighted by many authors including Toffler in his book ‘Third Wave’ and has been rightly understood by the many of us. The aim is not to discuss information revolution but to identify the kind of challenges it has posed to Jat community and to find out ways and means to overcomes the problems as also to involve those people on Jatland.com who are the leaders of the present age to show the directions to others.

The importance of Gyana has always been highlighted in India and the same has been the theme of our worship. ASATO MAA SAD-GAMAYAH, TAMASO MAA JYOTIR-GAMAYAH, MRATYO MAA AMRATAM- GAMAYAH But only few urban communities like Brahmans, Baniyas and Punjabis took the advantages of the same. Jats like many other rural communities has taken some time to start reorienting itself to new realities. Few like Sikhs took lead 30-40 yrs back and are way ahead than others. The fact is the Jats are almost 20-25 yrs backward to the present time. In last 20 yrs rapid changes has taken place in the world. There are people who are working at real time with global reach. There are many in India who even does not know how to apply to become a soldier in the army. ( I saw it when I visited my village school). Total lack of orientation and knowledge.

What to do?

The first and foremost is the attitude. SATHI HANTH BARHANA. We must develop an attitude to help each other. Helping does not mean that you give a job to person or give him money. Helping means try to help a person in finding the direction and prompt him to walk. When you try not all will listen to you. Jats by nature are stubborn. You may be questioned. You may be laughed at. But let me assure you that few will take advantage of you and move ahead. We should concentrate on these few. Even if 5% of the people you have advised have taken its advantage the aim is achieved. Let us trigger a chain reaction. We may succeed in exploding our untamed energies for the development. But that’s not possible unless we change our attitude. Let us forget our false egos for the benefit of the community.

Oh I am NRI or green card holder or in Silicon Valley or owning DLF. People only talk to me as they want money or some donation. No dear if you can share the path, which you followed to be a successful man, some of us may be benefited many may not. Let us not get worried about those many people but those few who are willing to walk in the present information age. See Punjabis and Baniyas or Marwaris, when they meet they also discuss opportunities. I am no way saying that we loose our identity and start imitating them. But surely we can learn good points about them, which are of some use to us. I would request some postings on Jatland.com on these lines. Discussing about opportunities. Get networked that’s I think is the one of very important role of this site. Avoid controversies at least on this site.

junnu
August 22nd, 2004, 09:45 PM
Dear Ashok,
Your sunglasses are killing me !!!

misguidedyouth
August 23rd, 2004, 12:58 AM
Dear Friends,
I’d like to draw your kind attention towards the ‘grass root’ problem (in my opinion) Jats are facing today. Since 90% of Jat community is residing in villages and their main source of living is agriculture. As far as agriculture is concerned agricultural land is the most important resource or asset for any Jat.
Now let’s take an example, there is a family which is having 3 sons and after marriage they got separated (nayare ho jate hain aur bantwara ho jata hai) now all the property would be going to divide in 4 parts, 3 parts for each son and 1 part for parents and since parents themselves are not able to do the agriculture work they merged with one of their son and that son can use their part of property. After some time their parents expired and now their part of property is supposed to be divided equally in all the three brothers, but the person who is using this part of property for more than a couple of decades is not willing to share. Moreover, which portion of that part of property should go to which brother? Etc. other complicacies arise. Now the real problem starts and the quarrels, fights and altercations between family members become daily routine and then it goes to criminal activities and then up to court.
This is the problem which every Jat home in rural Haryana is facing. I heard someone saying “Haryana mein court aur vakil toh jaton ke bharose chalte hain”.
I know there are many other problems too (education, copying in exams etc etc.) but they are more or less common for all other communities of rural life irrespective of cast.

So I hereby make a humble request to all of my friends to please try to give their comments on that ‘customary problem’.

scsheorayan
August 23rd, 2004, 07:59 AM
There is no solution to old fashioned greed and anger at the root of this problem. However some preventive measures can be helpful in minimising the impact;
1. Parents make a will and decide who gets what. Ofcourse there are lawyers who will contest the will also.
2. All ancestral property is put in a trust which is controlled by parents while they live and the ownership is passed to children after their death. This is also complicated but workable solution.
3. Parents sell their part to one of the sons while alive and utilise that money for their personal needs e.g. pension fund etc.
4. On the death of parents all brothers share it equally.
5. None of the idea will work if brothers do not have understanding and fighting is the result. That is a fact of life with which all have to live.

ravibina
August 23rd, 2004, 10:04 PM
Answer,
A laconic but emphatic and affirmative Yes.
from
Dr. Ravi Kant
MS, FRCS, FACS, FICS, FAIS, DNB, MANMS,
Professor of Surgery
Maulana Azad Medical College, University of Delhi
ravikant@rcsed.ac.uk

rkumar
August 23rd, 2004, 10:16 PM
My answer is BIG NO. Most jats even do not know what the challenges are in the near and distant future. Few individuals will ceratinly fare well where as the majority as a whole will slide down further unless concrete efforts are made to educate them and equip them with the means and resources to face the challenges.

Rajendra

sonalisingh
August 24th, 2004, 09:38 AM
Wah ji Dr. Sahib. Bahot khoob.
Aapka response chota tha, aur aapki degrees ki list badi.
Itne badi list likhtey likhtey thuk nahin jante aap ?


Ravi Kant (Aug 23, 2004 12:34 p.m.):
Answer,
A laconic but emphatic and affirmative Yes.
from
Dr. Ravi Kant
MS, FRCS, FACS, FICS, FAIS, DNB, MANMS,
Professor of Surgery
Maulana Azad Medical College, University of Delhi
ravikant@rcsed.ac.uk