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devdahiya
February 24th, 2005, 10:10 PM
My dear members,

For a long-2 time i had been pondering over a question but inspite of many thoughts emerging as a consequence of the never ending thought process, a satisfactory explaination remains illusive till date. We have a vastly experienced and learned faculty here at jatland to help me find an answer to that question. The question bugging me is " WHAT IS THE AIM OF THIS LIFE ULTIMATELY." I request a very serious and sincere inputs please.

Warm regards

jagmohan
February 25th, 2005, 09:23 AM
Dahiya Saheb,

Let me quote verbatim what I wrote to my young son a year back about life.

"Life: What is life and its purpose? This is one question that has and would continue to baffle humanity for centuries. The more one tries to understand LIFE the more complicated it becomes. Philosophers and thinkers have written volumes on it and yet there is no simplistic answer. There are various religions, cults and groups that believe in one theory or the other. However, from whatever little knowledge I have, ‘Hinduism’ or ‘Hindu Way of Life’ gives a rather simplistic answer or explanation. To put it briefly, it says that there is an ultimate power, call it by whatever name you want to call it, which controls the happenings in the universe and beyond it. We are nothing but a ‘Soul with a body’ who are destined to do our ‘Karma’. Whatever we end up doing becomes another act in the ‘Karmic Cycle’. The ‘Cause and Affect’ process evaluates the ‘Karma’ and ‘Fruits’ will come by. Every deed or ‘Karma’ will reach its logical conclusion and has to be registered as a good or bad ‘Karma’. There is life after death, as there is day after night, and the sum total of our ‘Karma’ will decide what kind of life we lead in our next cycle of birth or be released from this cycle altogether.

This is the most simplistic understanding of life that I can explain to you. We are JATS and we don’t believe in ‘Idol Worship’ or ‘Murti Pooja’. However, a lot of JATS have started keeping ‘Idols’ in the house. It is more of a reference point and nothing else. The only prayer that I seem to remember when I think of the ‘Ultimate Power’ is to ask HIM/HER to keep everyone happy. I also assure the Almighty that in whatever condition he chooses to keep me in, I shall be ever grateful to him and make the best of it. I don’t think I have ever asked Him that you do this for me and I will stop doing so and so thing. I may have done so whenever my loved ones are in some trouble or sick but then it never works out that way. And no one can fool GOD. HE knows everything so why try and become smarter than the Almighty? One may fool another human being but you can’t fool God or your own ‘Antar Atma’.

So how does a normal person who does not have a deep knowledge of ‘Vedas’ and ‘Puranas’ lead his life? Well by a very simple method. Live an honest life, don’t tell lies, have respect for elders, help out those who are less fortunate than you, don’t hurt anybody’s sentiments knowingly and believe in only doing ‘Nishkama Karma’ ie just do your work or ‘Karma’ and don’t worry about the results. Results will come, as the ‘Kramic Cycle’ has to be completed. Remember you were born to fulfill a purpose as per HIS designs and HE would make you do your ‘Karma’. There is no escape from this. Your aim and goal in life should be to do your work with Dedication, Determination and Discipline. Life and death are the two sides of the same coin. What is born will die and what had died will be reborn. There is nothing more to life than this. We are all like dolls that are battery operated. The day the battery runs out, it is thanks buddy."

This is what I truly believe LIFE is all about.

Regards,

JS Malik

mukeshkumar007
February 25th, 2005, 11:27 AM
So how does a normal person who does not have a deep knowledge of ‘Vedas’ and ‘Puranas’ lead his life? Well by a very simple method. Live an honest life, don’t tell lies, have respect for elders, help out those who are less fortunate than you, don’t hurt anybody’s sentiments knowingly and believe in only doing ‘Nishkama Karma’ ie just do your work or ‘Karma’ and don’t worry about the results. Results will come, as the ‘Kramic Cycle’ has to be completed. Remember you were born to fulfill a purpose as per HIS designs and HE would make you do your ‘Karma’. There is no escape from this. Your aim and goal in life should be to do your work with Dedication, Determination and Discipline. Life and death are the two sides of the same coin. What is born will die and what had died will be reborn. There is nothing more to life than this. We are all like dolls that are battery operated. The day the battery runs out, it is thanks buddy."

This is what I truly believe LIFE is all about.

Regards,

JS Malik

Very well explained Unclji.. ..
.....really we should beleive in "Nishkam Karma "...

uday
February 25th, 2005, 02:40 PM
Col. sahab ne bhi teekh likha hai..


---------------------------------
Bhai Devender ,

mere vichaar se jai is parshan ka utter bera hoonta to post \ reply thodi na kar rahe hotey .. kitey kaan padwaye od moddey baney miltey... ar nu kehntey miltey.. Jai ho mai ki bachee.. Ghalliye chooon ;) ;)

" WHAT IS THE AIM OF THIS LIFE ULTIMATELY"

Jai yo bera paat ja to fer jeevan ka russ ke reh ja ?

Serious and Sincere Reply :- Mere Khyaal se Jab maanas ne aapney aakhree time main Yamraj jhottey pe betha od samhi dekhaie de tab khud hi is parshan ka utter bhi Kshan bhar main mil jata hoga !!!


Stay Tuned
Uday



My dear members,

For a long-2 time i had been pondering over a question but inspite of many thoughts emerging as a consequence of the never ending thought process, a satisfactory explaination remains illusive till date. We have a vastly experienced and learned faculty here at jatland to help me find an answer to that question. The question bugging me is " WHAT IS THE AIM OF THIS LIFE ULTIMATELY." I request a very serious and sincere inputs please.

Warm regards

devdahiya
February 25th, 2005, 08:39 PM
Respected Jagmohan sir and Uday bhai,

I am really greatful to you for very honest and educative post but doubt still lingers in my mind as to why then some of the babies die in the womb,at the time of birth,immediately after birthand then some are born joined together. What does God want to prove to them? Why somtimes best of the efforts put forward with utmost honesty prove counter productive and slimy efforts pay off blatantly. Some people like a few politicians are able to shape their destiny the way they want. Why Afganistan is burning[what is the combined fault of those hapeless people? Why so many people die in psunami and rail accidents? Like wise there are thousand questions? More light is needed to be thrown please.

shailendra
February 25th, 2005, 10:15 PM
Dahiya Saheb,

We are JATS and we don’t believe in ‘Idol Worship’ or ‘Murti Pooja’. However, a lot of JATS have started keeping ‘Idols’ in the house. It is more of a reference point and nothing else.

Regards,

JS Malik

:confused: What?...Can you elaborate on that, please? That is the first time I have ever heard anything even remotely like that... Geez!!! :eek:
Jat's are Hindu's after all, and Hindu's have always used a worship reference point be it an Idol, Tree or a stone... (of course the Sun, moon, earth, fire, water etc. are included as those reference points too!...and the list can go on)...These reference points are not just reference points (and/or quote-unquote 'nothing else' like you say) but actually the basis of any Hindu faith!!! :rolleyes:

Also I have always understood it was ONLY the Muslmaan's that were never really 'Butparasths' (or 'idol worshippers!') ever... and only worshipped in a certain directional way, if anything!!! But then we are not muslim's but Hindu's JAT's afterall!

Anyways please do elaborate on that statement as I am on tender hooks now; you just debunked the whole Hindu way of life for me but then I am willing to give you the benefit of doubt and trust that you have a valid explanation to add to that comment of yours!...

devdahiya
February 26th, 2005, 10:46 AM
:confused: What?...Can you elaborate on that, please? That is the first time I have ever heard anything even remotely like that... Geez!!! :eek:
Jat's are Hindu's after all, and Hindu's have always used a worship reference point be it an Idol, Tree or a stone... (of course the Sun, moon, earth, fire, water etc. are included as those reference points too!...and the list can go on)...These reference points are not just reference points (and/or quote-unquote 'nothing else' like you say) but actually the basis of any Hindu faith!!! :rolleyes:

Also I have always understood it was ONLY the Muslmaan's that were never really 'Butparasths' (or 'idol worshippers!') ever... and only worshipped in a certain directional way, if anything!!! But then we are not muslim's but Hindu's JAT's afterall!

Anyways please do elaborate on that statement as I am on tender hooks now; you just debunked the whole Hindu way of life for me but then I am willing to give you the benefit of doubt and trust that you have a valid explanation to add to that comment of yours!...


GOTTA POINT THERE...........I SUPPOSE !

rkumar
February 26th, 2005, 03:55 PM
bhai zindgi ke utne hi meanings hain jitne ki dhartee par log hain..thode der ke liye mano ki agar sab logon ka meaning ek hi hota aur sab ke sab ek hi tarah se chalte to dhartee ka kiya haal hotaa ? Khuda ki kasam, dhartee par rehna doobhar ho jata..

Mere khayal se agar zindgi ko ek bharm rehne diya jai to shayad behtar hoga..zindgi ka roop bhai bas skin deep hai..jiada khuredogee to bas same color nazar aayegaa..kuch nahi hai...sab golam gol hai...mast rahiye..upna karm karte rahiye ...Zindgi ke baare me jitna kam sochoge, utna khush rahoge..Zindgi khuda ke niyamat hai aur khuda ki amanat hai...doosre ki chees ka bas khyal rakho...usko upna mat samjho...esee me bhalai hai...

RK^2

jagmohan
February 27th, 2005, 02:52 PM
Dear Shailendra,

I am no 'Pandit' on Religious matters but would try to elaborate on my comments on Idol Worship. Also please note that these are my personal views and I am not being judgemental or have anything against those who do believe and practice Idol Worship. These are also sentimental issues and many explainations can't be posted on a public forum.

If I take my mind back to the earliest man or people, millions of years back, I believe there was no written text, no idols, no GODS as we believe in them today or see them depicted in our epics and/or mythology. The people of that era, may be even before fire was discovered, used sign languages and merely survived. They were afraid of wild animals, whom they used to kill, eat and survive. Sometimes the wild animals killed them too. These people started to fear these animals. They would have been afraid of Lightening, storms or what we call nature. The cave paintings suggest to us that the earliest man did fear animals and nature. The people started respecting animals and nature. With time they discovered usefulness of animals and other creatures. May be a reason of treating Cow as a Holy animal. Therefore, what they feared and liked they respected. With times this slowly took the form of worship. How would have they explained to others what to fear and what to reapect? Sing language and/or drawings. This in my view was the begining of 'Idol Worship'.

As mankind progressed this 'respect and fear' took a more visible form. May be to depict fear and respect or for that matter show power, a God or Goddess was shown to be having eight hands and ten heads. I was having a discussion with a South Indian friend few months back on similar issues. I asked him why we have Gods/Goddesses having so many hands and heads? He told me that this was to depict power and reach of the Gods and also to describe the power and reach of our Gods to those who were uneducated. He also posed a counter question. He asked me as to how would a donkey imagine his own God to be (If humans can think so can the animals and may be they too have their own system of Gods/Goddesses)? I told him I don't know how could a Donkey imagine his God to be. He told me that a donkey would see his own God to be a super donkey, very powerful and large, may be a Donkey with eight legs, three tails and four eyes or whatever.

When I said JATS don't believe in Idol worship, I believe we actually don't. At least all those who have been affected by the teaching of Arya Samaj don't practice Idol Worship as done by others. At least I have not seen Idol Worship taking place in my house. Yes, 'Havan' with the recital of Gayatri Mantra ie OM BHUR.. is held on ocassions.

Those who keep Idols, of their 'Issht Devta' do so as a reference point only. Just to relate or to concentrate while praying.

This is the explaination I have for what I wrote. My very personal view is that JATS don't have any personal GOD of their own as most other communities do. At least I have grown up listening to my elders only saying RAM RAM while addressing one another. Surprisingly even while taking bath in cold water they said Ohhhh RAM!! Most JATS were/are farmers and had no time for detailed rituals to please GOD. They just believed in "Apna kam imandari se karo". I am no historian but should someone research as to why the term JAT DEVTAA came into usage, we could find an answer to why we don't believe in Idol Worship.

As far as Muslims are concerned, they very much believed in Idol Worship before they adopted Islam. In fact the people were so fed up of Idol Worshippers that they revolted. This was the major cause for people adoting to a newer way of life. However, even Muslims believe in praying to certain 'Chisti's' in Dargahs. It is a form of identifying one self with a particular sect actually. This trend is growing.

This is the explaination I can think of.

Regards,

JS Malik

devdahiya
February 27th, 2005, 05:58 PM
Dear Shailendra,

I am no 'Pandit' on Religious matters but would try to elaborate on my comments on Idol Worship. Also please note that these are my personal views and I am not being judgemental or have anything against those who do believe and practice Idol Worship. These are also sentimental issues and many explainations can't be posted on a public forum.

If I take my mind back to the earliest man or people, millions of years back, I believe there was no written text, no idols, no GODS as we believe in them today or see them depicted in our epics and/or mythology. The people of that era, may be even before fire was discovered, used sign languages and merely survived. They were afraid of wild animals, whom they used to kill, eat and survive. Sometimes the wild animals killed them too. These people started to fear these animals. They would have been afraid of Lightening, storms or what we call nature. The cave paintings suggest to us that the earliest man did fear animals and nature. The people started respecting animals and nature. With time they discovered usefulness of animals and other creatures. May be a reason of treating Cow as a Holy animal. Therefore, what they feared and liked they respected. With times this slowly took the form of worship. How would have they explained to others what to fear and what to reapect? Sing language and/or drawings. This in my view was the begining of 'Idol Worship'.

As mankind progressed this 'respect and fear' took a more visible form. May be to depict fear and respect or for that matter show power, a God or Goddess was shown to be having eight hands and ten heads. I was having a discussion with a South Indian friend few months back on similar issues. I asked him why we have Gods/Goddesses having so many hands and heads? He told me that this was to depict power and reach of the Gods and also to describe the power and reach of our Gods to those who were uneducated. He also posed a counter question. He asked me as to how would a donkey imagine his own God to be (If humans can think so can the animals and may be they too have their own system of Gods/Goddesses)? I told him I don't know how could a Donkey imagine his God to be. He told me that a donkey would see his own God to be a super donkey, very powerful and large, may be a Donkey with eight legs, three tails and four eyes or whatever.

When I said JATS don't believe in Idol worship, I believe we actually don't. At least all those who have been affected by the teaching of Arya Samaj don't practice Idol Worship as done by others. At least I have not seen Idol Worship taking place in my house. Yes, 'Havan' with the recital of Gayatri Mantra ie OM BHUR.. is held on ocassions.

Those who keep Idols, of their 'Issht Devta' do so as a reference point only. Just to relate or to concentrate while praying.

This is the explaination I have for what I wrote. My very personal view is that JATS don't have any personal GOD of their own as most other communities do. At least I have grown up listening to my elders only saying RAM RAM while addressing one another. Surprisingly even while taking bath in cold water they said Ohhhh RAM!! Most JATS were/are farmers and had no time for detailed rituals to please GOD. They just believed in "Apna kam imandari se karo". I am no historian but should someone research as to why the term JAT DEVTAA came into usage, we could find an answer to why we don't believe in Idol Worship.

As far as Muslims are concerned, they very much believed in Idol Worship before they adopted Islam. In fact the people were so fed up of Idol Worshippers that they revolted. This was the major cause for people adoting to a newer way of life. However, even Muslims believe in praying to certain 'Chisti's' in Dargahs. It is a form of identifying one self with a particular sect actually. This trend is growing.

This is the explaination I can think of.

Regards,

JS Malik

My dear Jagmohan Sir,

Thank you very much for sharing your views on this important issue and your philosophy is not without substance. Jats however had been induldging in idol worship since ages. Every village in jatland has a mandir where if not all men then atleast all women do worship regularly. Though so many Gods are popular in jatland like RAM, SITA, SHIV, SHANI, VAISHNO MATA[locally worshiped as santoshi maa] etc. But most popular and very near to their psyche happens to be our HANUMAN JI, may be because Jats find him like themselves as we see his life story[ sacrifice for a just cause with utmost honesty and single minded devotion] . Unfortunately Jats could not have a religious hero during the past history,whom they could associate with God and worship, unlike Sikhs who had more than their share in shape of many Gurus and to develope an Identity of their own in religious matters they were successful to highlight the achievement of their Gurus and construct Gurduwaras in every corner of india and abroad. This timely direction of their gurus not only gave them a religious identity of their own but also saved them from selfish JAMMAT of brahmins who successfully manipulated not only Jats but also any such other casts which could not develope anreligious identity of their own....Rajputs for example. That much towards worshiping but the real isue on which this thread was born remaiins illussive of an answer and hence my personal request to through some more light on the subject please.

devdahiya
February 27th, 2005, 06:25 PM
bhai zindgi ke utne hi meanings hain jitne ki dhartee par log hain..thode der ke liye mano ki agar sab logon ka meaning ek hi hota aur sab ke sab ek hi tarah se chalte to dhartee ka kiya haal hotaa ? Khuda ki kasam, dhartee par rehna doobhar ho jata..

Mere khayal se agar zindgi ko ek bharm rehne diya jai to shayad behtar hoga..zindgi ka roop bhai bas skin deep hai..jiada khuredogee to bas same color nazar aayegaa..kuch nahi hai...sab golam gol hai...mast rahiye..upna karm karte rahiye ...Zindgi ke baare me jitna kam sochoge, utna khush rahoge..Zindgi khuda ke niyamat hai aur khuda ki amanat hai...doosre ki chees ka bas khyal rakho...usko upna mat samjho...esee me bhalai hai...

RK^2

SIR JI,

BINA SOCHCHEN KE BAAT BANNE SE. YA TE BAAT JAMMI NAHIN SIR?

pnauhwar21
December 21st, 2006, 05:44 AM
Ye question to mere dimaag bhi bahut ata rahta hai lekin jawab dene bhagwan aye nahi abhi tak..

I actually wanted to take sanyas when I was 24-25 and goto forests or himalayas to do meditation, meet with God and understand what this life is all about.. :) But had to postpone my plan due to Family's responsibilities.. We all talk about leading a good life, doing good karma, taking care of our parents and children, help the needy and all that but very few people try to even ponder on the aim of being born. We would obviously not get an answer right away, but no answer comes without questioning and no solution comes until you try to solve it.

Just think for a moment, what we do our whole life..we take birth, grow up playing as a child, become teenagers and start thinking about our future, come out of college and get a good job, marry someone, enjoy life's up's and downs, then get our children married off, take care of our grandchildren and then eventually die. Do you think thats all life is about..what exactly is the significance of our existence? Or are we just part of dream of God or Maya as is called in our literatures..in either case I am sure that there is something else also to be learnt from this nature. Have heard and read so many stories of meditation, people meeting God once all their chakras are opened but don't know the truth yet..but we surely need to explore some other realities and atleast try to find out the truth rather than blindly living the life like a herd..even trying to contact aliens or bhoot-prets is a stepping stone towards understanding the life as thats something outside our world..

hdsura
December 21st, 2006, 06:10 AM
Death. Extinction. That is, cessation of all vital phenomena without capability of resuscitation, either in animals or plants.

Unless of course if one rephrase the question as *DURING THE COURSE OF LIFE*. That may get interesting, philosophical, religious or far as one think.


My dear members,

The question bugging me is " WHAT IS THE AIM OF THIS LIFE ULTIMATELY." .

Warm regards

vkaschaudhary
December 22nd, 2006, 04:29 AM
Give as much as you can without any expectation......:)

just give a smile 2 some1................:) :) :) :) :) :)

devdahiya
December 24th, 2006, 08:08 PM
Give as much as you can without any expectation......:)

just give a smile 2 some1................:) :) :) :) :) :)



So true dear...Keep it up!

devdahiya
December 26th, 2006, 09:13 AM
Death. Extinction. That is, cessation of all vital phenomena without capability of resuscitation, either in animals or plants.

Unless of course if one rephrase the question as *DURING THE COURSE OF LIFE*. That may get interesting, philosophical, religious or far as one think.



Interesting....!

deepakchoudhry
December 26th, 2006, 02:46 PM
Jagmohan Uncle :

You are right about Idol worship there was no Idol worship in vedic period. Vedas are full with refernces on this subject.

Murti Pooja came later on . It is only a visual aid and nothing more. It is used like as a spritual map for a devotee.

Our ancestors used murtis to commuicate the qualities of the divine (for people who could not read Vedas). You can see any murti and you will know what I mean.

We worship the divine THROUGH murti. Murti is not God.

As long as someone does it with this understanding it is not a problem.


Shaliendra Bhai:

Hindu or Vedic way of life is very diverse. We have freedom to choose our own path (according to our gunas). Vedas say Truth is one but its called by different names. In the end all paths leads to same.

Unfortunately we have lost track of the True knowledge.

Dahiya Sir:

Hanuman meaning Mann ka Hannan karnay wala.
He is a Vedic pandit /Scholar and knower of Ashtanga Yoga. Hanuman represents Vitality / Intelligence / Wisdom / Right conduct and Devotion....I wish all Jats used him as his ideal ....wouldnt that be wonderful.

deepakchoudhry
December 26th, 2006, 03:07 PM
We dont have to strain our minds for this...This answer is already avaiable.

Vedic Knowledge gives us a complete and true answer to this question. Which will apply to us even though we are different individuals, leading different lives under different circumstances.

Because that is the beauty of true science.

Jagmohan uncle ji what you have said I suppose sums up most of the people.

Faith in all mighty, Good Morals and Right Conduct should be the basic foundations for everyone....if we just do that, the rest will follow.