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ravichaudhary
October 2nd, 2003, 07:50 PM
http://www.deccan.com/headlines/top1.shtml

Pak troops cross LoC, hit posts

Jammu, Oct. 1: Troops along the Indo-Pak border have been put on high alert in the wake of surprise raids by Pakistan Army’s Sabotage Border Action Teams that attack Indian posts to push heavily armed militants in Jammu and Kashmir.
“Pakistan troops have started a fresh gameplan of conducting raids by its specialised sabotage group, Bats, that target listening posts and border patrol along Line of Control in order to engineer infiltration of heavily armed militants into Jammu and Kashmir recently,” top defence sources said.
In one recent attack, Pak soldiers of its Bat raided a border patrol of Jat regiment after crossing LoC in Jangard area of Noushera sector in Rajouri district and killed four jawans.
The team, while going back, severed the head of a soldier and took it away with them as a trophy, the sources said adding that four more jawans were killed in another such attack on a listening post in Uri sector of Baramulla district in Kashmir valley a fortnight before.
Surprise raids by Pakistani soldiers have occurred after a gap of three years, they said.
In August 2000, three Indian soldiers were killed and seven injured in an attack on a listening post in Poonch sector.
“As infiltrators are getting killed in large numbers over the last six months, Pakistani troops are now targeting our early warning setup with raids by their sabotage border action teams,” sources said.
In view of these raids, troops have been put on high alert and security of Early Warning Posts and Listening Posts have been upgraded to foil any such attack without casualty along LoC and International Border.
Bats are specialised sabotage group, which includes Pak regulars, some top trained militants and are generally headed by trained commandos of “Moses” company (sabotage unit) of the Pakistan Army, they said.

ranjitjat
October 2nd, 2003, 08:15 PM
It’s head for head along the border
Vishal Thapar
New Delhi, September 28

Rules of engagement

Unlawful act: Soldiers have immunity for killing enemy soldiers only in a declared war

Geneva Convention: Focuses on treatment of POWs. Treatment of bodies is in realm of military tradition

Scare tactics: In 1971 war, Gurkhas had a reputation of beheading Pak soldiers. They played on Pak soldiers’ belief that beheaded humans were headless in after-life too

Pak’s game too: During Kargil war, bodies of Indian soldiers, which Pakistan returned, were badly mutilated
India and Pakistan may not be at war, but on the Line of Control (LoC), they are playing a game of gore that may get out of control.
Last month, elements from the Pakistan Army walked across the LoC in the Rajouri sector in Jammu and Kashmir. They ambushed a Jat Regiment patrol and killed four troops.
But the intruders weren't through. They chopped off the head of a slain Indian soldier and carried it back across the LoC as a trophy. The Pakistanis also took away a light machine gun that the Indians were carrying.

The Indian retaliation was ferocious. Earlier this week, a battalion of the Jat Regiment shot dead nine Pakistani soldiers. And for gruesome impact, the Jats got the heads of two Pakistani soldiers.

The Army brass, however, isn’t saying anything about this macabre medievalism. “There's nothing to state officially. We're not making a statement,” says a senior officer at Army Headquarters.

Even the community of soldiers is taken aback by this barbaric dimension to Indo-Pak hostilities. Says Lt-Gen Satish Nambiar, who commanded the UN peacekeeping force in the Balkans in the early nineties, “Mutilation of bodies is not natural even in the heat of battle. Even in Yugoslavia, the scene of a bitter ethnic blood-letting, I did not hear such things.”

But this isn't the first time bodies have been mutilated in a no-war, no-peace situation along the LoC. Former Vice-Chief of Army Staff, Lt-Gen Vijay Oberoi has recollections of similar incidents in 1998-99 when Pakistan started sending across its Border Action Teams (BATs).

“This was a mixed lot of Pakistan Army regulars and mercenaries wearing black civvies. Their purpose was to open infiltration routes for cross-border entries,” says General Oberoi.

“On occasion, this trend did trigger Indian retaliation,” he admits, adding, “One such incident occurred after the Pakistanis carried back the body of an Indian jawan.”

Even during the Kargil war, bodies of some Indian soldiers, which the Pakistanis returned, were badly mutilated. One such posthumous humiliation was inflicted on Lieutenant Saurabh Kalia.

Oberoi, who regards such competitive sadism as an aberration, argues that it's primarily motivated by the intruders' quest for proof of inflicting casualties on the adversary.

“Some may be considering an enemy soldier's head a better evidence of a successful foray, compared to a captured weapon or some other material proof,” he says.

The General, who interacted with Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf, then Pak DG of military operations, as his counterpart in the mid-nineties, gives the benefit of the doubt to the Pakistani brass.

He says the equation at the lower levels matters. “Not everything that unfolds on the LoC is policy,” he says. “What transpires is mostly prompted by local considerations.”

<b>Rules of engagement</b>

Unlawful act: Soldiers have immunity for killing enemy soldiers only in a declared war

Geneva Convention: Focuses on treatment of POWs. Treatment of bodies is in realm of military tradition

Scare tactics: In 1971 war, Gurkhas had a reputation of beheading Pak soldiers. They played on Pak soldiers’ belief that beheaded humans were headless in after-life too

Pak’s game too: During Kargil war, bodies of Indian soldiers, which Pakistan returned, were badly mutilated
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------They were also from JAT- REGIMENT

Dear all. please also remember 5 jats. whose mutilated bodies handed over in june 1999. When you talk about PAK AND HUMANRIGHTS
DHARMPAL

rkumar
October 2nd, 2003, 08:18 PM
My blood boils on this...Jat in me tells me to retaliate.. and the human being in me tells me to be forgiving... Unfortunately forgiveness does not take us too far if we look into the events of history. History tells that crush the enemy ruthelessly. So what our Jat soildiars did was very much in keeping with this. They paid back by severing the heads of Paki soldiars. We may judge it right or wrong sitting in our drawing rooms. High time we invade pakistan and crush it once for all at any price. Let Pakistan wipe out few Indian cities and in return get wiped out from the face of Earth once for all...World has no other options...Islamic extremism can be wiped out only if whole Islam is wiped out...I see no other way.. Its like cancer, if not surgically removed, it will kill the entire body..

Regards
Rajendra

jagmohan
October 3rd, 2003, 02:13 PM
Dear Ravi Ji, Dudee Ji and Rajender Ji,

This topic is under intense discussion under 'Current Affairs - Befitting Reply'. I am cutting and pasting what I have written in that thread below.

"Having served in the INFANTRY (The Jammu & Kashmir Light Infantry) for 21 years ( 9 years in J&K on the IB/LOC), I fully endirse the action taken by the soldiers of the JAT paltan. In fact I retired in Aug 2001 and my last place of posting was KUPWARA (Hottest spot from 'Infiltration' point of view).

Let me inform my friends that the 'Battle in J&K' is being fought on a very different level and for the very survival of our nation. This kind of battle cannot be fought as per 'Geneva Conventions'. The values of democracy can't and shouldn't be applied to war with terrorists, whose aim is to see the flag of Islam fly atop every household in the world. And these 'Human Rights' advocates, please excuse me. You sit in your drawing room, take the maximum benefit from the International bodies and plan how you can get the next free crumb. (I don't usually use such language but what is happening in J&K can never be fully appreciated by people who don't know the 'facts of the ground').

I don't have time to explain here the Grand Design of Saudi Arabian theory of 'Darul Islam', 'Darul Harb' and 'Darul Aman'. You can then understand the seriousness of the problem and increase in Muslim fundamentalism.

I can also advise those who are interested in 'Military History', please read how the insurgency was controlled in Malaysia by the Britishers in the 1950s. Incidently, control of the Malysian insurgency was by the most violent means. Violence that is more gruesome than what the insurgent can throw at you. Unfortunately this is the language that the 'Jehadi' elements understand worldwide. (In whichever city the Hindus have massacred Muslims with greater hatred during communal riots, those places have remained violence free: Meerut, Moradabad, Mumbai)

My only question to my friends is "What answer do you give to the other soldiers of the Paltan when they ask for revenge?". Do we quote the Constitution of India, Geneva Convension, National Human Rights Manuel or Amnesty International Rules? We should be proud of an officer class that leads from the front and delivers. I am sure a young officer would have led this forey into POK, across the LOC and got those Paki heads. It is a necessity to do this otherwise these Jehadis will be roaming the steets of New Delhi, if they are already not doing so. Do you know the motivation level of these persons and can you imagine the kind of atrocities they are capable of on a captured or wounded Indian Army soldier? Most of these Jehadis are the product of these 'Madarsas' which teach them that if you die while fighting for the 'Cause' you would go to Heaven and Allah will give you 80 'Hoors' (Miss Universes) and 'Pani-e-Zam Zam'. How do you deal with these guys?

The avarage Kashmiri has been used by everybody for all these years. His condition has not improved a bit and the blame lies on everybody. India should be lucky to come out from this mess with lesser bloodshed. Our survival as a nation depends on this.

I know tit for tat is not applicable and agree with what Gandhiji said :Applying Tit for tat will make the whole world blind.

But J&K and LOC is different".

Lt Col JS Malik (Retd)
JAT BALWAN, JAI BHAGWAN

ravichaudhary
October 3rd, 2003, 07:23 PM
[quote]Jagmohan Singh Malik (Oct 03, 2003 04:43 a.m.):
Dear Ravi Ji, Dudee Ji and Rajender Ji,

This topic is under intense discussion under 'Current Affairs - Befitting Reply'. I am cutting and pasting what I have written in that thread below.


**********8
Dear Col Mailik,

My reason for putting this under History, is to accumulate data re history in the making, and lessons to be learnt from the past.

This will be useful to future researchers.

To win this war, not battle, we need Cool heads.

The reply is as needed, the BAT teams will think twice and be fearful of tangling with the Jats.

In that, has been, and is is our only safety

Ravi

ravichaudhary
October 4th, 2003, 12:50 AM
[quote]Jagmohan Singh Malik (Oct 03, 2003 04:43 a.m.):


Most of these Jehadis are the product of these 'Madarsas' which teach them that if you die while fighting for the 'Cause' you would go to Heaven and Allah will give you 80 'Hoors' (Miss Universes) and 'Pani-e-Zam Zam'. How do you deal with these guys ??

**********


By changing the curriculum of the school/Madrassa

Ravi