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ranjitjat
February 24th, 2004, 03:23 AM
Somnath Temple gates: Recently, some contradictory versions have surfaced about the Somnath Temple gates. The word used in all historical writings is gates and not gate. Besides, two types of gates have been mentioned in different writings i.e. silver gates and sandalwood gates. It would be safe to draw a conclusion from these writings that the historic Somnath Temple had more than one gate.

What military history of the British Indian Army makes very clear is that the sandalwood gates were looted by Sultan Mahmud Ghazni from the temple of Somnath in 1024 AD. And then during the First Afghan War, when I Jat, now 2 Mechanised Infantry Battalin (I Jat LI), stormed the fort of Ghazni on September 6, 1842, it retrieved the sandalwood gates from the tomb of Sultan Mahmud Ghazni and brought these back on its return to India in December 1842. The gates are currently displayed at Agra Fort under the aegis of Archaeological Survey of India.

ranjitjat
February 24th, 2004, 03:30 AM
Dear all.
No history book has this story.
Only my book France to Kargil cover this story.
The gates are on show at AGRA FORT NOW.
This is another jat History in making.
No body know until last year.
Now the whole world will know History of JATS & JAT REGIMENT,INDIAN ARMY.

JAIHIND
Dharmpal

ravichaudhary
February 24th, 2004, 03:39 AM
With no disrespect.

The story of the valour of the Jats ands their valour is correct and heartening.


How accurate is the Ghazni carrying the gates to Ghazni though ?



Ghazni has a very difficult time going back to Ghazni, He was waylaid by the Jats, harrassed at every step, and was driven into the desert,and with great difficulty managed to make it to Multan and safety.


How could he carry the gates with him then ?

Are they not quite large and heavy ?

Have they ever been dated ?

More likely, he got the gates made locally a few miles away, and brought them to his capital.

He then boasted of his success to his followers.

He would have pulled a hoax.

Possible ?

Ravi

ranjitjat
February 26th, 2004, 01:17 AM
Dear Ravi Ji.
The 2nd part of the story is 100% true.
This act is great in itself.
No Army of the world done such a deed.
Only the Royal JAT REGIMENT.
This prove that Jats are great nationalest.
Jats are ancient Ruler & saver of India its culture, huminity and History.
Jats are not looters- thieves or rubbers as painted by so call history books.

Your other QS? can be answer by ASI at Agra.
Now whole world is accepting that they are gates of Somnath temple, returned by Royal Jat REGT, are on show by ASI in AGRA FORT.
Why we Jats make this a issue and spoiled the show.
We all should give it a good thought.
Cheers

saharawat
February 26th, 2004, 09:45 PM
This is gr8t facts and we should be proud of being Jaat.

Dudee Uncle is very right in saying "Why we Jats make this a issue and spoiled the show."

I too want to say just
Cheers

ravichaudhary
February 27th, 2004, 04:26 AM
Let me try and clarify.

The story he took the gates of Somnath is a falsehood.

He put up fake gates, to impress his followers.

The Jats brought back these fake gates.

Now if we do not expose the fact the gates are fakes, then we are agreeing that he managed to take the original gates to Ghazni.

But he did not, the jats made his life miserable, and he barely escaped with his life, hungry, tired, he managed to slime back to Ghazni.

So which version would you have?

1) That he triumphantly took the gates of Somnath back, through Jat territory

Or

2) That he was humiliated, he lied when he got back, and 800 years later the Jats brought his false glory back to India, humiliating him again?


Just a thought


Ravi

danarambeerda
March 7th, 2004, 11:18 PM
Shree Dharm Pal ji ram ram sa, you are doing a great job on this site, telling us lot of stuff what we dont know, please tell us more we all are very curious, also would you please tell us " where the jat word came from" you might have told earlier but i went thru all your posts and could not find, i will be greatful if you will provide some more about it.

with best regards

ranjitjat
March 9th, 2004, 07:17 PM
Dana Ram ji
RAMRAM.
Thank you for your interest in jat history.
JAT word came from SANASKRIT
Some historiana are saying. This word came from SHIVJI JATA.
Others are saying- Jat are BODY GUARDS OF SHIVA- GANA SY JANA- AUR JANA SY JAT savad ho gaya.
According PANINI Grammer- JT-JR DHATU SE JAT SAVAD VANA HH.
JARTO SANGHAM GACHAMI
YANI- JAT SANGH VANA KAR RAHATE HAN.
Akhsatriyoo ka SANGH.
Jo bhi Family iss. SANGH MAE SAMIL HO GAE JAT KAHALIE.
YAH ARYAO KI BANSAJ- PURANE AKSHATRIYE HAN. JO YUDH KY SAMYE TALWAR- HATH LAE DESH KI RAKASHA KARTE HAN.
PEACE TIME MAE AGRICULTURE.
YAHI INKA KANDANI_ PESHA RAHA HH. VEDIC KAL KY PHALE SAE BHI.
more next time soon
CHEERS

anilkc
March 9th, 2004, 09:22 PM
It does not matter if the gate is fake or not, the story brings out 1 and only 1 fact, Jats are courageous.
1)If the gates are fake, then:
Jats prevented him from taking it to Ghazni.
Jats even got the fake gate back.
India has ALL the gates due to Jats.
Sultan Mahmud Ghazni was a cheat and liar.
2) If the gates are not fake and he was able to take the Gate back to Gazhni. Jats and only Jats got it back. India has the Gate now.
If he was able to take the gates, the reason probabily was luck on his part or was not so important to Jats or Jats may be just ignorant abt the gate.
If put in right perspective of that time the priority for Jats must have been:
1) Protect themselves.
2)Get back gold, diamonds and other jewels.
3) Free the slaves that he was taking back to Ghazni.
4) Harass the invaders, so that they dare not come back.

I do not beleive Jats would have been able to identify the gate from the huge loot he was carrying. How many Jats would have actually seen the gate earlier to identify it?

The truth abt gates is only important from archeological point of view. Its not important to establish the valour of Jats. They did what no one else could do. Sultan Mahmud Ghazni had nothing to show for his part except a gate...which was nothing more than a political symbol.

ranjitjat
March 10th, 2004, 06:15 PM
Dear Anil
well said I am 100% agreed.
Jats and only jats can do it again and again.
Jats have also done it France to Kargil in every war of the world.

Cheers

ravichaudhary
March 10th, 2004, 06:47 PM
[quote]anil chaudhary (Mar 09, 2004 10:52 a.m.):Sultan Mahmud Ghazni was a cheat and liar.
2) If the gates are not fake and he was able to take the Gate back to Gazhni. Jats and only Jats got it back. India has the Gate now.
If he was able to take the gates, the reason probabily was luck on his part or was not so important to Jats or Jats may be just ignorant abt the gate.

Ghazni raide Somnath, a quick raid,.

After Somanth, went north through Jat Territory.

The Jats organized themselves; this takes time, a panchayat is called etc etc.

All democracies have this problem, it takes time to organize a defence.

He could not go back the way he came. He was defeated and chased into the desert.

It would have been a running battle, with him and his troops unable to rest or sleep. Night fall would have been pure hell for Ghazni and Co, not knwoing if they would be alive at Dawn, and many did not see another dawn.

He had to leave all his loot, gold , jewels behind. That is a historical fact any standard history book , including the Muslim versions acknowledge.

He himself says he gave up hope, and finally managed to reach water. and then with a few straggling followers, reached Multan.

Im the desert without food and water, he would have more serious concerns than, protecting some very large heavy wooden gates.

Besides he could not protect smaller pieces of Gold, how could he protect these humungous gates?

The Jats won the Aghan war for the British, and proved their capability in warfare one more time.

It would be far better if Indian History books taught the school children, about their defeat of Ghazni, rather than teach them of how Ghazni looted india 17 times, and no one could do anything about it.

That is the point I am trying to make.

To perpetuate the story that he took the Gates to Ghazni, is continue to glorify a fraud.

Ravi

rajendersingh
March 10th, 2004, 11:20 PM
dear ravi ji,
with all ideas in your mind, i do feel there is some truth what u are saying.
now dudee ji is saying that those gates are there in agra fort, so that has to be contested with facts.
it was only last year that i visited agra fort and happen to see the gates in the fort. seeing those gates i was almost sure that these gates could not have been the one which the guide described me. but the point is that even if they are fake one, we need to find the reallty . other wise we have to take the realty as A s I IS TELLING THE PPL OR AS DUDEE JI HAS TOLD US. buts its a fact these gates are very much there in agra fort. and we have to belive dudeeji.

ravichaudhary
March 11th, 2004, 12:52 AM
[quote]Rajender Singh (Mar 10, 2004 12:50 p.m.):
dear ravi ji,
***********

DudheeJI is correct,

The gates in Agra fort are the Gtaes brought back from Afghanistan.

That does not mean they are gates taken from India.

see below some information:

http://46.1911encyclopedia.org/S/SO/SOMNATH.htm
SOMNATH, an ancient decayed city of Kathiawar in the province of Bombay, India. Pop. (1901), 8341. It is situated on a bay of the Arabian Sea. The port, which is called Verawal, is distinct from the city proper (Deva-Pattan, SomnathPattan, or Prabhas). The latter occupies a prominence on the~ south side of the bay, is surrounded by massive fortifications, and retains in its ruins and numerous tombs many traces of its former greatness as a commercial port. But the city was most famous for the temple just outside its walls in which stood the great idol or rather columnar emblem of Siva called Somnath (Moons lord), which was destroyed by Mahmfld of Ghazni. The famous Gates of Somnath, which were supposed to have been carried off by Mahmd to Ghazni, had probably no connection with Somnath. They are built of deodar (II ft. in height and 93/4 in width) and are richly carved in geometric Saracenic patterns. The gates were attached to the building covering Mahmuds tomb at Ghazni until their removal to India. under Lord Ellenboroughs orders, on the evacuation of Afghanistan in 1842. They are now contained in the arsenal at Agra.

Dost Mahommed Khan was quietly dismissed from a prison in Calcutta to the throne in the Bala Hissar, and Ellenborough presided over the painting of the elephants for an unprecedented military spectacle at Ferozepur, on the south bank of the Sutlej. When Sultan Mahmud, in 1824, sacked the Hindu temple of Somnath on the north-west coast of India, he carried off the richly-studded sandalwood gates of the fanes and set them up in his capital of Ghazni. The Mahommedan puppet of the English, Shah Shuja, had been asked, when ruler of Afghanistan, to restore them to India; and what he had failed to do the Christian ruler of opposing Mahommedans and Hindus resolved to effect in the most solemn and public manner. In vain had Major (afterwards Sir Henry) Rawlinson proved that they were only reproductions of the original gates, to which the Ghazni moulvies clung merely as a source of offerings from the faithful who visited the old conqueror's tomb. In vain did the Hindu sepoys show the most chilling indifference to the belauded restoration. Ellenborough could not resist the temptation to copy Napoleon's magniloquent proclamation under the pyramids. The fraudulent folding doors were conveyed on a triumphal car to the fort of Agra, where they were found to be made not of sandalwood but of deal. That Somnath proclamation (immortalized in a speech by Macaulay) was the first step towards its author's recall. http://www.fact-index.com/e/ed/edward_law__1st_earl_of_ellenborough.html

The gates were uprooted and brought back in triumph. But on arrival, they were found to be of Egyptian workmanship and not associated in any way with India. So they were placed in a store-room in the Agra Fort and possibly by now have been eaten by white ants.
http://www.flonnet.com/fl1608/16081210.htm

ravichaudhary
March 11th, 2004, 12:57 AM
For pictures of the designs on the Gates in Agra Fort see:

The gates are of DEODAR, not Sandal wood

You can now judge for yourself, if the design is Hindu.

The Somnath temple was a Shiva temple

Ravi


http://www.maltwood.uvic.ca/bayne/sketches/india1.htm

look for
U994.30.660
INDIA1870/12

MUHAMMEDAN. THE SOMNATH GATES. NO. 1. PART ELEVATION. SECTION

U994.30.661INDIA1870/12

MUHAMMEDAN. THE SOMNATH GATES. NO. II. DETAILS OF PANELS

ranjitjat
March 11th, 2004, 07:26 PM
RAVI Ji
We can refer your interest to ASI AGRA.
Will you accept the decision ?

Every thing on the net is not gospel truth
including what is on jatland and on yahoo jat history.
We can help you if you like.
Some people saying Mohamad Gajani- GOri _TAMUR- ABDALI were all JAT BY RACE ?

Cheers

ravichaudhary
March 11th, 2004, 08:17 PM
Dharmpal Singh Dudee (Mar 11, 2004 08:56 a.m.):
RAVI Ji
We can refer your interest to ASI AGRA.
Will you accept the decision ?

Every thing on the net is not gospel truth
including what is on jatland and on yahoo jat history.
We can help you if you like.
Some people saying Mohamad Gajani- GOri _TAMUR- ABDALI were all JAT BY RACE ?

Cheers

Why do we not do that.

Most of I what post,on the Yahoo Jat history group, is raw material for discussion, and I say at every opportnuity I get.

This raw material, does not, and should not be accepted as the gospel truth.


Your own work France to Kargil,, is a wonderful piece of work, gathering up valuable primary evidence that would have been lost to posterity, had you not taken such a serious interest, and worked so hard at it.


***
The excerpts from the net sources,

Ellenborough, etc are supporting evidence.

Let us see what the ASI provides.

That is exactly what is the rest of us should wish to see.

How old are the Gates ?

Have they been dated ?

Is it correct that the design is not Hindu in origin, and so on.?

I do not accept Romilla Thapar's views either. They are overly tainted with JNU marxism.

I would be perfectly happy( academically) if they were the original gates.

Then someone has to explain Ghazni lost his treasure to the jats, and carried some heavy , gates back, over what is ait 1000 KIlometres - Somnath to Ghazni.

For me this is a matter of academic interest.

It is not worth getting upset about


Ravi

ranjitjat
March 15th, 2004, 06:21 PM
Ravi ji.
The story of fake gates was in Indian press recently.
Now that is already settled BY ASI that,s why ASI put the get on show , so that expert can see and test themself.
We can write to ASI. But people in India can go to Agra and see them self and asked the details required by you.
This is common practice in India not to answer letter. ASI may not give in writing to ABC.
But no harm , people in AGRA has better chance.
No one upset here. This is normal & cool way of jats discussion.
cheers