where is the fault... ?

[mukeshkumar007]

Dear all as you know that India is the largest youth country in the world. And every one can expect for new records in the path of development in India, which has brilliant youth power. But expected outcomes are not coming. why..? ................When a youth becomes or appointed as a politician/officer or on any responsible post, that time he commits to the people for the change in the system and promised to bring poor people forward...... But after sometime he also include in the same row by saying that he himself alone cannot change the system.......HAR IAS OFFICER BEGINING MAIE YEH KEHTA HUWA MIL GAYEGA KI ...."he/she will rearrange the situation of law and order, he/she will serve the poor community of society and they will not compromise with the corrupted and criminal type of people of the society at any cost...."
Lakin result wahi DAAK KE TEEN PAAT.......... yeh naye chere usi duniya ke rang maie rang jate hai. and apne kiye huwe vado ko puri tehra bhool jate hai..........
Still I am unable to understand that where is the fault...... akhir kami keha hai.... kyo aik honest young person jab kuch ban jata hai to apni values and principal se compromise kar leta hai.....

[rkumar]

Basically most Indians are weak and insecured people. This makes them more self-centred and less committed to social cause. In my view this characterstic of Indians has its roots in Hindu religion. Compare Hindu religion with other religions, there is a marked difference in the process of worshiping. In hinduism its a one-to-one relationship between God and the worshiper. One's own karma is responsible for his nirwana. This is why most sinats sit in isolation while meditating/ worshiping. Contrary to this, muslims or christians gather in large numbers while offering namaz or sunday prayers..Mosque or church serve as community plateforms for common cause among muslims and christains. This is not so with Hindus. In my my view this is the root cause of our inward thinking and lack of social commitments.

However, when this thinking has pitfalls, it has many merits as well. Hindus are by enlarge resist mob mentality and tend to think with their individual heads on their shoulders.

Rajendra

[sjakhars]

Thanks Mukesh for starting a good discussion.
as you said that all the officers and politicians,in starting ,make big promises and take big oaths but after sometime "wo bhi usi rang me rang jate hain".
On this u turn i think there are so many reasons.some of them can be these-

1.Pahli baat ye ki ye sab jamin se jude nahi hote.Inke ma-baap ya to bahut paisewale hote hain aur ye kewal shauk ke liye officer/neta bante hain.Ya phir neta ka beta neta aur officer ka beta officer.Ab inke ma-baap jo karte hain wohi to beta-brti karenge.aaj ek gareeb aadmi ka beta pahle khane ke baare me sochata hai baad me.wo kahan se officer banane ki sochega.
2.The training system we are providing to our officers is still same as was in British times.This is making our officer "aarampasand and gairjimmedar.Our Training institutes are situated in Massouri,Shimla and Nainital.If you are sending a Shimla trained officer in rajasthan,how can he adjust with that conditions?We should give them the conditions in which they are going to work.
3.Corruption is also a major factor in this matter.when a junior officer want to work honestly the seniors make his way very difficult.after sometime he unwears the honesty and starts on the same way.
4.the fourth reason is 'criminal-politics engagement'.i think this the biggest reason."jab murderers,rapists,mafia hamare neta honge to desh ka vikas kaisa hoga koi bhi anumaan laga sakta hai".
Rajendraji,You rose a good point and it matters.we do not have the commitment that is needed for progress,for devlopment.
One thing i want to share with you is there is wording by Premchand,the famous indian writer- "SANTOSH NE HI BHARAT KO GARAT KIYA HAI."
I do believe in this.we Indians can get satisfaction with nothing.One man's income is 2000 Rs,p.m. and he is satisfied with that.He do not try to increase it.The famous proverb "bas dal roti chal jaaye bahut hai" is the reason of our slow progress,slow devlopment.

[mukeshkumar007]

1.Pahli baat ye ki ye sab jamin se jude nahi hote.Inke ma-baap ya to bahut paisewale hote hain aur ye kewal shauk ke liye officer/neta bante hain.Ya phir neta ka beta neta aur officer ka beta officer.Ab inke ma-baap jo karte hain wohi to beta-brti karenge.aaj ek gareeb aadmi ka beta pahle khane ke baare me sochata hai baad me.wo kahan se officer banane ki sochega.

2.The training system we are providing to our officers is still same as was in British times.This is making our officer "aarampasand and gairjimmedar.Our Training institutes are situated in Massouri,Shimla and Nainital.If you are sending a Shimla trained officer in rajasthan,how can he adjust with that conditions?We should give them the conditions in which they are going to work.
3.Corruption is also a major factor in this matter.when a junior officer want to work honestly the seniors make his way very difficult.after sometime he unwears the honesty and starts on the same way.


Well said. I fully agree with you. You have analyzed the problem very well. As you have said that a junior officer compromise with the conditions in the pressure of his seniors, But do you have any solution/ suggestion that how can a young and newly appointed officer be remain honest? I think if an officer who wants to work with honesty then i am sure none can stop him....
I have seen such honest officer in sikar (Rajasthan). He was Add. Chief Executive officer in Zila Parishad Sikar. That Time I was also working there as a computer operator. His name was Ghanedra Bhan Chaturvedi. He was really honest person. He never accept bribe in any form. He have not taken a single illegal action despite the all political and criminal pressures. One day he had refused to MLA also not to do her illegal work in the presence of all staff.
So I am sure if the officer wants to work honestly and to the welfare of public then none pressure can stop him .........
Thanks

[gaganjat]

Lot of theories are there. Practicality missing! Nobody can be controlled 100% and you always get a chance to do good. When you get a chance , hit the bulls eye. Everyone has got some tendency, dont need to be big as Mother Teresa all the times. There is no need to set unrealistic goals or no need to set goals at all. There is a need to continue doing your best in particular circumstances because your next possible replacement can be worst.
I hope I am clear. Love to read different views!

[sjakhars]

Thanks Mukesh and Gagan for your reply and appreciation.
I again say that a junior officer can not work independently,b'coz in indian buerocracy there is a "hiererachy"that means a ladder like positionong in administrative field.if an honest officer passes a file of good work,the others will try their best to stop that and try to get something out of that.
This is right that if a person decides to work honestly,he can, but it needs a great determination and that is not possible in this type of circumstances.
1-2-5 persons can have this,but for all honest peoples it is very hard.
this problem is not new.Corruption is keep coming from earliest times but at present it taken taken a huge place in our society and administration.
even officers asking bribe in legal works.
I have seen it from very near.
I hope you will not take it personally and will give your thoughts on this toppic.
In my next post i will try to give some solutions for this problem.

regards.

[mit]

Basically most Indians are weak and insecured people. This makes them more self-centred and less committed to social cause. In my view this characterstic of Indians has its roots in Hindu religion. Compare Hindu religion with other religions, there is a marked difference in the process of worshiping. In hinduism its a one-to-one relationship between God and the worshiper. One's own karma is responsible for his nirwana. This is why most sinats sit in isolation while meditating/ worshiping. Contrary to this, muslims or christians gather in large numbers while offering namaz or sunday prayers..Mosque or church serve as community plateforms for common cause among muslims and christains. This is not so with Hindus. In my my view this is the root cause of our inward thinking and lack of social commitments.

However, when this thinking has pitfalls, it has many merits as well. Hindus are by enlarge resist mob mentality and tend to think with their individual heads on their shoulders.

Rajendra
Sorry uncle indians are not week nor they are unsecured.i m totaly disagree with you on this point with due respect to ur feelings i personaly feels with the political leaders like we have and problems like poverty, religion and castism still a brave indian fights with his day to day problems and still smile and still think of better tomorrow without having any sign of hope a mother tells her son everything gonna be alright.no offences but sitting in england and getting paid in £'s we should not talk about braveness and security we are secure even if we dont do any thing the gov gonna feed us with dol money but what about that father who had only son as his source of surviving in old age and he loose him in kargil, and after providing them with a medal gov dont even ask them they are able to arrange there bread and butter or not,i had seen such fathers whos says that they have no regret there son died, it takes a lot to say that when u know u dont have anyone to help u to go to the loo when u will ill but they people do laugh at times i think indians are not only brave they are the most brave souls on this planet.
God bless my indian brothers and give us strength to face life.

[rkumar]

Sorry uncle indians are not week nor they are unsecured.i m totaly disagree with you on this point with due respect to ur feelings i personaly feels with the political leaders like we have and problems like poverty, religion and castism still a brave indian fights with his day to day problems and still smile and still think of better tomorrow without having any sign of hope a mother tells her son everything gonna be alright.no offences but sitting in england and getting paid in £'s we should not talk about braveness and security we are secure even if we dont do any thing the gov gonna feed us with dol money but what about that father who had only son as his source of surviving in old age and he loose him in kargil, and after providing them with a medal gov dont even ask them they are able to arrange there bread and butter or not,i had seen such fathers whos says that they have no regret there son died, it takes a lot to say that when u know u dont have anyone to help u to go to the loo when u will ill but they people do laugh at times i think indians are not only brave they are the most brave souls on this planet.
God bless my indian brothers and give us strength to face life.

Hi Amit,

First of all, Its really nice to see your picture on the screen.

Let us now analyse the problem this way by asking a simple question. Are poverty, caste based politics and corruption an outcome of weakness or weakness an outcome of other traits in society ? My personal view is that all these problems are an outcome of weakness and insecurity. When we are breaking down a problem into its causes, we have to find the ultimate root cause and not just symptoms. Let us not get confused between symptoms and causes of disease. Ultimate cause of all social evils is human brain. Weak brain and strong brain look at the same problem differently. Very often putting up a brave face itself is an indicator of deep mental insecurity.

RK^2

[gaganjat]

Sorry uncle indians are not week ................... i think indians are not only brave they are the most brave souls on this planet.
God bless my indian brothers and give us strength to face life.

Real Jat words! With you mate!

[mukeshkumar007]

Real Jat words! With you mate!

But Gagan bhiya where is your photo ? it is still unvisible.... why ? when every member is posting his pic then why r u delaying in this holy work..

lets come and upload ur photo..

[mit]

Hi Amit,

First of all, Its really nice to see your picture on the screen.

Let us now analyse the problem this way by asking a simple question. Are poverty, caste based politics and corruption an outcome of weakness or weakness an outcome of other traits in society ? My personal view is that all these problems are an outcome of weakness and insecurity. When we are breaking down a problem into its causes, we have to find the ultimate root cause and not just symptoms. Let us not get confused between symptoms and causes of disease. Ultimate cause of all social evils is human brain. Weak brain and strong brain look at the same problem differently. Very often putting up a brave face itself is an indicator of deep mental insecurity.

RK^2
Hi uncle first of all regards to you.uncle this is convincing that we should find the root cause of the problem to remove the problem from the bottom but i think the root cause of the problem is orthodoxy and the fakeness which our society spreads within the society and make it a hard and depressing place to live.i make u understand with an example an intellectual person who drive a bycycle,wear old fashioned clothes, society treat him as a unsuccessful man,they wont understand that may be he dont think that he need car, may be he do not think to buy stylish clothes coz after all clothes are to cover body not to show how good your sense of dressing but society wont understand him and rather laugh on him but this man dont bothers,but at the same time his family suffers who lives in the society and has to go through the pressure of society which society puts on them that they are some how not equaly treated in the society.on the contrary there is a man who after murdering 3 people and killing one witness came out of the jail join politics set a business of alcohal drives a fancy car,people will treat him as a successful man and pls to shake hand with him and if by mistake he keeps his hand on someone's shoulder that person will feel proud like an angel touched him.at this point society is pressurising the family of the simple intellectual but unsuccessul man (according to our society) to adopt or do something by which they can also gain the same respect and eqality which they deserve as their birth right and what the ideal path society have shown by justifying the deeds of that corrupt murderer politician the same path as this corrupt and filthy murderer shown to the society. i think this and certain other ailments like this are the root cause of the problem.at this point what will a strong brain will do and uncle does every body in england or america has strong brain no but it's the society which make even the week brain to live with some morals and not to give ur patience in those weekeining moments.i think with the kind of inequality and situations our society is filled a common indian has a stronger brain than any common individual of any western country.
survival of the fittest(and we are surviving with :) )

[ramksehrawat]

Dears all,

Corruption is not something which is confined to any country (though the degree may vary); it is not confined to any particular period of history either, it was prevalent in 15-16 century, Shekspear wrote about it, Gandhiji wanted to get rid of it. Nothing happened. Rather the PMs of our country acknowledged it; Mrs. Gandhi by saying that "it is a universal phenomenon" and her son by admitting that "only 15 paise reaches where it should". If you are really interested to eradicate corruption, let everyone be free of corruption individually and see the result. But it is really difficult. People talk of corruption till they get a chance to be corrupt, after they are in a position to be corrupt, it becomes the way of life.

[mit]

Dears all,

Corruption is not something which is confined to any country (though the degree may vary); it is not confined to any particular period of history either, it was prevalent in 15-16 century, Shekspear wrote about it, Gandhiji wanted to get rid of it. Nothing happened. Rather the PMs of our country acknowledged it; Mrs. Gandhi by saying that "it is a universal phenomenon" and her son by admitting that "only 15 paise reaches where it should". If you are really interested to eradicate corruption, let everyone be free of corruption individually and see the result. But it is really difficult. People talk of corruption till they get a chance to be corrupt, after they are in a position to be corrupt, it becomes the way of life.
sorry sir but according to u we indians are corrupt coz we are in the position to be corruptl.thats realy strange.

[ramksehrawat]

sorry sir but according to u we indians are corrupt coz we are in the position to be corruptl.thats realy strange.

Dear Amit,

If you see around yourself, it is a bitter fact that average Indian, given a chance is corrupt. Our politicians, bureaucrates, police, customs, Income tax, municipality, traffic departments are temples of corruption. Almost all civil servants talk of idealism and patriotism but turn to something else once they occupy public offices. It's a bitter fact dear.

[mit]

Dear Amit,

If you see around yourself, it is a bitter fact that average Indian, given a chance is corrupt. Our politicians, bureaucrates, police, customs, Income tax, municipality, traffic departments are temples of corruption. Almost all civil servants talk of idealism and patriotism but turn to something else once they occupy public offices. It's a bitter fact dear.

Sir i understand where u are comming from,but the people u are mentioning tell me how many people are there in gov services less than 20% of our population.if a common indian get corrupt it's not for the luxury it's for survival.i hope u wont call a mother selling her body to fed her newly born infant corrupt or a auto wala charging extra sometimes to pay his house rent. ya it is corruption when CM of a state ask 50 lakh Rs for the appointment of DSP in his state.i am not trying to justify the corruption on small scale but than it's the pressure of unequal distribution of money which give rise to that i think u can understand where i m comming from as i mentioned in my last posts its corrupt politicians and fakeness of society which make society taking corruption for granted.
regards
amit

[sjakhars]

Hi Amit and all.
This discussion is going in a right direction.atleast we are talking about the biggest problem of India.
I mentioned some issues on this and getting good response.let's see this discussion produces a good result and some practical suggestions to solve this problem.
shri Sherawatji is right.If anyone gets chance for corruption he will do it.from bottom to top.Even General public is also supportive to this.A person gives bribe to get his illegal work done.Corruption is not only in govt.employees but also in pvt. sector and even in public.Our mindset is like this that without corruption nothing is possible.people always think that i have to give something to get my work done.This mentality supports corruption a lot.it means that public is also involved in this biggest evil of indian society.
To eradicate this social evil we need to change this mentality in public.
roots of this evil are very deep in our society and this is devloped in centuries.

Regards.

[ramksehrawat]

Sir i understand where u are comming from,but the people u are mentioning tell me how many people are there in gov services less than 20% of our population.if a common indian get corrupt it's not for the luxury it's for survival.i hope u wont call a mother selling her body to fed her newly born infant corrupt or a auto wala charging extra sometimes to pay his house rent. ya it is corruption when CM of a state ask 50 lakh Rs for the appointment of DSP in his state.i am not trying to justify the corruption on small scale but than it's the pressure of unequal distribution of money which give rise to that i think u can understand where i m comming from as i mentioned in my last posts its corrupt politicians and fakeness of society which make society taking corruption for granted.
regards
amit

Dear Amit,

Amit when we talk of corruption, the people that first come to our minds are politicians and government servants. True, but who corrupts them. WE dear, the commoners like me and you. Because we can't wait for our turn, we find it easier to buy things than to earn them through hard work or proper channel, be it jobs or driving licence, ration cards or whatever. Even patriotism has a price. To get into army you have to pay fat bribes. We all want short cuts. Behind every corrupt traffic policeman, there are hundreds of rule violators Hence, we all are responsible for it. When you talk of 20%, you blame only the bribe takers as corrupt. What about those who bribe them ? Aren't they corrupt ? You talks of survival, do we have to travel ticketless or break traffic rules for survival ? We are offended if we have to stand in a que for our turn to get into a DTC bus and even for such small matter we indulge in corruption by jumping the que ? These are only few things, corruption has become a way of life. It is everywhere. And why blame the politicians and government servants alone ? Look at the baniyas ? Aren't they corrupt ? See in our villages. Given a chance, most of the simple looking villagers are dishonest or corrupt. See the Gram Pradhans ? Get me 10 honest pradhans and I will admit that we are a class apart. Bhai, kabhi khet batai pe diye hain? Wahan bhi long corruption kar jate hain aur latth bajte hain. Doodh main pani, ghee main dalda, bina ticket travelling, yeh to common citizens hi karte hain. Ghar ka kooda phekne tak mein log corruption karte hain. Padosi ke barne aage phek dein sain. Hence, if we really are worried about this disease called corruption, we have to get our own inner selves clean then only we can talks of eradication. You are right I come from government service and I am sorry to admit that even I am corrupt. Don't think otherwise. I am not in public dealing neither I am handling government money, which provides the easy way to be corrupt. I come to late by at least half an hour, I avail more than stipulated period of lunch, like everybody does in government. Even this is corruption. But what to do, if you have to survive in this pond of corruption, you have to behave the same way or you will be outcast and targetted by majority. Corruption is not just accepting or paying bribes, it is the life led in improper manner.

[mukeshkumar007]

Dear Sehrawat Uncleji, I do agree with you on this point that we Indians can talk against the corruption but don’t want to take any action to root out it from our country because we are also equally involved in it as politician and officers are. Very easily we can say that politicians and government officers are corrupted but none is ready to answer this question that who make them corrupt? We can find every people by criticizing/ abusing this evil but none is ready to come forward to remove this problem ……neither our politicians nor we……
Here I want to put up a happening that was took place with me when I was studying in 12th class. That time I had to get attested some documents from a government office. So that I told my uncle for this work, my uncle (he is a lecturer in chemistry) was quite busy so he replied me that ….. Mukesh Tum khud hi karwa lao yeh kaam to , office maie jo clerk betha hai wo karwa dega apke sare kaam, bus simply tum usko 50/- rupees de dena. Phir tumhe kuch nahi karna hoga, sare kaam wo khud karwa dega…….
I was really shocked with my uncle’s reply. A person who is a teacher from profession and who always taught me for be honest every time….. and now he is saying me to give bribe to a clerk, just to get the work completed soon……. When I asked him that what are you saying uncleji, then he replied me …….Beta yeh system hai you & me alone can not change it… if you have to move ahead then you have to accept it whether it is bad or god…..
So I think we Indians haven’t a strong desire to remove these evil from our country…. Hame to Sab kuch government se hi ummed karte hai ki sirf government ki hi responsibility hai aisi evils ko mitane ki , hum kyo kare,,,,,,,, Aaj bhi Log Bagat Singh Chata & Chendr Shekhar Azad ko paida hote huwe dekna chata hai, lakin apne Ghar maie nahi Parosi ke Ghar maie……
Sehrawat uncleji's post completly describing/ reflecting the real mentality of us….. I fully agree with him on point to point….
If we want to root out the corruption from our society then first we will have to change our mentality and we should be aware from our responsibilities and duties whatever have as a true citizen ….. If once we understand our duties then I am sure every thing will be settled automatically ……we need individual revolution not organizational revolutions… There are already many organization working for the healthy change in society but nothing could be achieved yet…. because they could not be able to awake the public…

PS. Its all my personal opinion, so if some is not agree then plz don't take it in wrong way.