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neha_grewal
September 10th, 2004, 09:39 PM
Hi Everyone,
I wanted to know about Jat's participation in India's freedom struggle, prominent leaders and freedom fighters, and cities in Haryana, where freedom struggle took place.

Neha Grewal

ravichaudhary
September 11th, 2004, 03:21 AM
You have much material in these archives

see also- 1857 war of independence in Jathistory section

http://www.********.net/

see alsoarchives and files section of the Yahoo Jathistory group

enjoy

birbal
September 11th, 2004, 03:51 AM
The struggle by Jats in Shekhawati region of Rajasthan (Jhunjhunu, Sikar, Churu) is very nicely presented in the book "Shekhawati Mein Swatantrata Aandolan Ka Itihas" by Mohan Singh.

guliya
September 12th, 2004, 09:19 PM
Hi Neha,

You have raised a great topic. However, I personally dont know much about the topic, but thr is a good book regarding the same. See if it helps. Its called "Jat Viro ka Itihas" its a pretty thick book about 2000 pages I assume.

Cheers! :-)
Rohit

:-)

rksehrawat
September 13th, 2004, 04:26 PM
Don't know much about others, except perhaps Ch. Charan Singh and Ch. Devi Lal, but I know a few who were in INA who had great sense of patriotism and loyalty to Bose. One, late Kartar Singh from village Kair, Najafgarh had declined to accept the freedom fighters' pension, by writing to the then PM Indira Gandhi, that unless the Government disclosed full facts and whereabouts of Bose. Keeping in view that he had no other source of income except a few bighas of land, and was living a life of penury, his gesture had earned him a great respect. Similarly, Captain Shobha Singh of NDA hailing from Munirka village was a close confident of Netaji. My own father-in-law late Pitamber Singh Tevathia of village Banboi, B'shar was in INA and had been jailed for more than three years in Malaya, Singapore and later in Red Fort. There are scores of others but mainly associated with INA. Unfortunately, people think only those people who took part in Congress activities were the freedom fighters, to which jats have never been idenfied with, because of the treatment meted out to Sir Chhotu Ram, perhaps. After the first war of independence in 1857, the landholding of my village was reduced considerably and given to neighbouring villages of yadavs and bahamans, becuase our elders had captured some Brits and made them to work in their "pairs" (i.e. for thrashing of the crop of wheat).

rkumar
September 13th, 2004, 05:27 PM
Dear Friends,

One gets very scattered information on common freedom fighters, excpet the prominent ones. Here are two links..

http://rohtaksubdivision.nic.in/pc29.htm

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2003/12/16/stories/2003121601481700.htm

Ch Ranbir Singh, father of Mr Bhupinder Singh Hooda, MP from Rohtak, has been a prominent freedom fighter from Haryana and went to jail many times. He spent many years in various jails during British time. He is the only Jat and probably one of 2 or three surving ones who was the member of constituent assembly.

Rajendra

ravichaudhary
September 13th, 2004, 05:33 PM
[quote]r.k. sehrawat (Sep 13, 2004 07:17 a.m.):
Don't know much about others, except perhaps Ch. Charan Singh

**************
There is some evidence that Charan Singh was not quite the Jat leader he is made out to be.

Chotu Ram left the congress.

In 1938 the Congress U.P Government passed a circular that no jat was to be hired in the police or civil service in UP.

This affected many Jats including some in my family at that time.

Does anyone else have similar experiences

Charan Singh was very close to Pant, the chief minister.

He chose to stay on, rather than organize the jats against the Congress

He was also betrayed later by the Congress

While in power, it is not clear what he did for the Jat community if anything ??

ravi

PS Thanks RK

I will copy your info on the INA period and post it on the Jathistory group.

What you have provided in genuine history. This is the kind of primary material we are looking for.

It confirms the accounts of others

saharawat
September 13th, 2004, 08:37 PM
Yes Ravi, Charan Singh was not the Jat leader. He was the leader of all common men thats why he became the PM.

All Jats were united under his leadership in UP only, after him Jats never united.

The Jats who was in INA were fighting for the India freedom not for Jat community.

ravichaudhary
September 14th, 2004, 01:22 AM
Dheeraj Saharawat (Sep 13, 2004 11:07 a.m.):
Yes Ravi, Charan Singh was not the Jat leader. He was the leader of all common men thats why he became the PM.

All Jats were united under his leadership in UP only, after him Jats never united.

The Jats who was in INA were fighting for the India freedom not for Jat community.
***********************
A few technical questions


What exactly were Charan Singh's achievements, besides becoming PM ?

What exactly is it that he did do for the common man ?



ravi

dharmpaltakhar
September 14th, 2004, 03:58 AM
one thing CH.Charan Singh did was to ensure the easy availability of bank loans to farmers by establishing NABARD. that time a lot of posts for agricultural officers were created in all the nationalised banks.

jagmohan
September 14th, 2004, 11:10 AM
Dear All,

A topic that is so dear to our hearts.

"They also serve who stand and wait". These lines truly explain the participation of a common man or a common JAT in the freedom struggle. If common men/women all around the country had not resisted, freedom from the Britishers would not have been possible. It is true for all revolutions in history.

It is a very sad reflection on our society in general and the historians in particular (historians who were earlier influnced by the Mughals, British and later by the Communists and the recent Bania-Brahmin nexus) that the sacrifices of a common man will never be known. Even true contributiors to the freedom struggle will remain unknown. That's why the 'Unknown Soldier' is remembered throughout the world.

We are only begining to understand the contributions by our forefathers in all spheres of our nation's history. If the so called 'Establishment' has its way then the only people who contributed in any way in this country belong to the 'Nehru-Gandhi' khandan. As though the rest were mere passengers. It is a sad fact that even today 90% of India's population doesn't know that Feroz Gandhi, Indira Gandhi's husband, was not related to Mahatma Gandhi.

A word about Indian National Army (INA). It was commendable to join the Armed Forces and fight the Great War. Then to be made a prisnor of war (PW), undergo torture in German and Japanese jails, be freed and then volunteer to join a fighting force under the able leadership of 'Netaji', then fight in the jungles of Burma, underfed and illequipped and die for a cause was bravery of the highest order. Each soldier who later became part of INA needs to be saluted and remembered as a national hero. However, their actual contribution in the Second World War on the Burma front is another matter and I have commented on the purely military aspect earlier on this site.

Now a word about Ch Charan Singh. Well, to have struggled and survived in a political scene dominated by Bania-Brahmin-Thakur nexus in UP of the 50s and 60s was no less achievement in itself. Unfortunately when you judge Ch Saheb by the present day politicians yardstick, he may not have done much, because he didn't provide his henchmen the opportunity and freedom to loot public money and resources. This in no way undermines his contributions as a politician and a JAT. He was the one who gave us the 'Mandal Commission'. Remember it was for a just cause. However, it was hijacked by politicians to divide this society on caste lines and we saw the emergence of BSP and the likes of Kanshi Ram and Mayawati. Ch Saheb remains the only JAT who unfurled the Tricolor on the Red Fort. How and why he was stabbed in the back by the congress is another story.

Regards,

ravichaudhary
September 14th, 2004, 05:20 PM
Charan Singh could have associated himself with Sir Choturam for one.

He did not. He chose to stick with G B Pant,and this " nexus".

Presumably he felt his interests were better served with them

What exactly did he do ?

For his constituency, where he was elected from !

Did he get roads made?

Did he get any schools made?

Did he improve education ?

Did he bring drinking water to any village ?

Did he do anything for healthcare for the villagers ?


These issues would affect all " common people" not only Jats.

what is it that he exactly did do?

saharawat
September 14th, 2004, 05:34 PM
Apologies in advance in any my words hurt you.

Nothing can be 100%. This is universal truth, so nobody can satisfy to everyone in his life.

Bihar is the worst state in India because the actual power of the state is still in the hand of powerful landlord. All the agriculture lands are with landlords. Others lower castes works at their fields as labour. UP would be another Bihar if Ch. Charan Singh did not help to demolish the Zamidari system (If I m wrong please correct me).

It was not very easy to overcome the Bania-Brahmin-Thakur nexus in UP that time. It was also an achievement to unite the Jats, Yadav and others lower castes under one banner and became the CM of UP. Even some people changed the surname for a favour to get the job (For example Sahib Singh Verma).

I have seen how lower castes are tortured in the villages. I have heard terrific stories from my Papa and others person (Hope this happens in your village too). I have even seen in school how teachers behave with the lower caste people.

If you are a human being, you never like it. This was the reason of the birth of 'Mandal Commission'. This is very unfortunate that due the corrupt politics now a day the Reservation is going in very bad direction.

rkumar
September 14th, 2004, 06:08 PM
Ravi Chaudhary (Sep 14, 2004 07:50 a.m.):
Charan Singh could have associated himself with Sir Choturam for one.

He did not. He chose to stick with G B Pant,and this " nexus".

Presumably he felt his interests were better served with them

What exactly did he do ?

For his constituency, where he was elected from !

Did he get roads made?

Did he get any schools made?

Did he improve education ?

Did he bring drinking water to any village ?

Did he do anything for healthcare for the villagers ?


These issues would affect all " common people" not only Jats.

what is it that he exactly did do?

Dear Ravi,

There are different priorities at difefernt times. Before I argue my point any further, let me pose you a counter question. Ch Bansi Lal did everything to Haryana as you have mentioned above in your post. Do you think Bansi Lal stands any where near to the stature of Ch Charan Singh? Mahatma Gandhi did not do any of the things you have mentioned ? Do you think Mahatma Gandhi was lesser than Bansi Lal? One can not talk of roads and electricity when one is fighting for one's place in society. Ch Charan Singh gave jats what no one could give in history after Maharaja Suraj Mal. And that is pride. We can raise our head high and tell that in modern India we had a man from our caste of his stature. Evaluating great people in terms of only the physical infrasture careted is a very low way of judging them. I am not sure if Sir Chotu Ram is known for building roads and bringing electricty either. So let us not use same yardsticks to measure every one...

Rajendra

ravichaudhary
September 14th, 2004, 08:08 PM
Actually rather than you offend me, my concern is that my words will offend you.

Please treat this as a technical subject.


So allow me to question his achievements.

If nothing else many of the readers. myself included will learn something


Rajendra , you may be a little off the mark here.

We owe the Bhakra Nangal Dam to Chotu Ram, for starters.

We owe the pro farmer laws to Chotu ram.

Haryana's ( formed in 1967)first objective was to provide drinking water, and roads to every village, and schools. The administrative districts were broken down to manageable sections.

I saw the development of Haryana first hand from 1971 to 75, and I am not frrom Haryana, so I have no pro Haryana bias. I also dealt with the recaltricant Babus trying to extract payment.

In a few generations, that changed the outlook of Haryana and its people.

Just as Choturam's emphasis of liberating the Kisan frorm the clutches of the moneylender, and getting the rural kisan and non kisan sons recruited into the armed forces and government services had done 30 years earlier.


If you claim that Charan Singh abolished zamindari, please provided the relevant details.

Did he create any primary schools in his home contituency? any hostels for rural kids? anything at all ?

Why did he not separate Western UP from Eastern UP and Uttaranachal ?

or was his objective simply to reach to some gaddhi of power?.



Ravi

rkumar
September 14th, 2004, 08:43 PM
[quote]Ravi Chaudhary (Sep 14, 2004 10:38 a.m.):

Actually rather than you offend me, my concern is that my words will offend you.

Answer: I never feel offended Ravi...its a pure discussion and in the process I am also trying to learn. So please take that out of your mind totally. I do not claim that I know everything and that too rightly.
..............................
We owe the Bhakra Nangal Dam to Chotu Ram, for starters.

Answer: I tried to find out if Sir Chotu Ram had anything to do with Bhakhra Nangal Dam. Unfortunately I could not find his name any where linked with this project. Following are the names which I could find out..

( Mooted for the first time in 1908 by Sir Louis Dane, the proposal to harness the Sutluj water was shelved due to the prohibitive costs.

In 1919, Mr F E Gwyther, the then Chief Engineer, prepared the first detailed and comprehensive project report for a high dam of height 395 ft at Bhakra.

This report resulted in a series of investigations and examination of the Bhakra site in 1924 by Dr E S Pinfold, Chief Geologist of Attock Oil Co.

In November 1927, a Committee of the eminent engineers of that time, including Mr A J Wiley, a consultant to the US Bureau of Reclamation visited the Bhakra site. He proposed a height of 500 ft and in 1932 surveys for the reservoir area were carried out.

In 1939, Dr A N Khosla, the then Superintendent Engineer carried out further studies to analyse the seismicity, silting, diversion of river, and the foundation of the dam. He also provided the proposal of power generation for the first time to make Bhakra into a multi-purpose project.

Post-independence in 1947, Dr Khosla increased the height of dam in his proposal to its full capacity to create an even bigger water reservoir.)

May be you will enlighetn me further on his role by sending some links. Though I never thought it appropriate till date, but let me inform the members here that Ch Ranbir Singh who happens to be the elder brother of my father in law, was the PWD minister of combined punjab when Bhakhra nangal dam was still under contruction. During my many conversations with him, I never heard the name of Sir Chotu Ram.. However, again treat this as my ignorance if you have some written materail on the subject.
.............................................

We owe the pro farmer laws to Chotu ram.

Answer: Which laws..Please quote the refernce to those pro farmer lawas..and if possible some links..Are these all india laws or limited to some region?
..........................................
Haryana's ( formed in 1967)first objective was to provide drinking water, and roads to every village, and schools. The administrative districts were broken down to manageable sections.

I saw the development of Haryana first hand from 1971 to 75, and I am not frrom Haryana, so I have no pro Haryana bias. I also dealt with the recaltricant Babus trying to extract payment.

In a few generations, that changed the outlook of Haryana and its people.

Answer: there is no dispute about development in Haryana. I have already mentioned that Ch Bansilal did a lot for Haryana development.
........................................

Just as Choturam's emphasis of liberating the Kisan frorm the clutches of the moneylender, and getting the rural kisan and non kisan sons recruited into the armed forces and government services had done 30 years earlier.

Answer: Please forgive me if I am offending some one or even quite a few. Its well known that the title of Sir was given to those who were very close to British and helped them directly

(http://www.harappa.com/film/s6.html)

Its well known that during world wars they needed lots of soldiars and pepple who brokered those recruitments, got some titles and hearing/ favours in the government.
...............................

If you claim that Charan Singh abolished zamindari, please provided the relevant details.

Answer: Read my post once again. I never said that he abolished zamindari. However, now since you have raised the issue, he worked with congress leaders like GB Pant and Others at that time to get it abolished. better you read the proceedings of the UP state assembly.
....................

Did he create any primary schools in his home contituency? any hostels for rural kids? anything at all ?

Answer: You are again repeating the same thing and trying to asses a person based upon physical infrastructure development. Ch Charan Singh gave pride to us and lifted us socially at much higher plateform. Please pardon my saying once again. Please ask any south Indian if he will be able to tell you who Sir Chotu Ram was.. Whereas 99% will tell you who Ch Charan Singh was.
................
Why did he not separate Western UP from Eastern UP and Uttaranachal ?

Answer: Ch Charan Singh and for that matter even Sir Chotu Ram did not belong to the class of pigmi leaders who believed in carving small states to make their personal kingdoms. Certainly Haryana benefited by its smaller size, and I have no doubts about that. However, I am not so sure that every small state will fare the same way.
.............................

or was his objective simply to reach to some gaddhi of power?..

Answer: Let us say his objective was to reach to some Gandhi power. What was so wrong about that. Every person is guided by some philosophy and every person has some role model. I see nothing wrong with that if he had any such dreams. Many people in those days wanted to emulate Gandhi.

Rajendra

satbir_grewal
September 19th, 2004, 07:10 PM
Neha ji,

The fact is that Jat Sikhs have contributed far more than us in the Indian freedom struggle. The Kamagatamaru episode and the Andaman jail is a testimony to that. The prison records of the Andaman jail show that about eighty percent of the detainees were from the Sikh community, mostly Jats. Moreover, the most visible face of the Jat Sikhs in the freedom struggle were Shaheed Bhagat Singh Sandhu and Shaheed Udham Singh. Nevertheless, we can still be proud of the fact that they were Jats at least.

Regards.

rkumar
September 20th, 2004, 07:00 PM
Satbir Grewal (Sep 19, 2004 09:40 a.m.):
Neha ji,

The fact is that Jat Sikhs have contributed far more than us in the Indian freedom struggle. The Kamagatamaru episode and the Andaman jail is a testimony to that. The prison records of the Andaman jail show that about eighty percent of the detainees were from the Sikh community, mostly Jats. Moreover, the most visible face of the Jat Sikhs in the freedom struggle were Shaheed Bhagat Singh Sandhu and Shaheed Udham Singh. Nevertheless, we can still be proud of the fact that they were Jats at least.

Regards.

Dear Satbir,

To best of my knowledge Udham Singh was not a Jat sikh. He was a Kamboj. I would love to have some more figures from you on the role of Sikhs in freedom strugle as I am not sure if their numbers were as high as you have mentioned. I am not able to recollect any major names apart from Saheed Bhagat Singh. Ofcourse one may talk of Jalianwala Bagh incident. Do you have any idea about the number of sikhs killed in Jalianwala Bagh? Following link tells all about Freedom fighters from Punjab and there is no mention of the name of Lala Lajpat Rai at this site..This is why I don't trust most of these sites which are stage managed..

http://www.punjabilok.com/misc/freedom/prominent_freedom_fighters.htm

Rajendra

shailendra
September 20th, 2004, 07:20 PM
Rajendra Kumar Kalkhunde (Sep 20, 2004 09:30 a.m.):

Satbir Grewal (Sep 19, 2004 09:40 a.m.):
Neha ji,

The fact is that Jat Sikhs have contributed far more than us in the Indian freedom struggle. The Kamagatamaru episode and the Andaman jail is a testimony to that. The prison records of the Andaman jail show that about eighty percent of the detainees were from the Sikh community, mostly Jats. Moreover, the most visible face of the Jat Sikhs in the freedom struggle were Shaheed Bhagat Singh Sandhu and Shaheed Udham Singh. Nevertheless, we can still be proud of the fact that they were Jats at least.

Regards.

Dear Satbir,

To best of my knowledge Udham Singh was not a Jat sikh. He was a Kamboj. I would love to have some more figures from you on the role of Sikhs in freedom strugle as I am not sure if their numbers were as high as you have mentioned. I am not able to recollect any major names apart from Saheed Bhagat Singh. Ofcourse one may talk of Jalianwala Bagh incident. Do you have any idea about the number of sikhs killed in Jalianwala Bagh?

Rajendra

Oh...I gotta add here; Jatt Sikh or not, but can you believe the determination this guy (Udham Singh) had? By george!!! 20 years later!...he tracked down and killed general Saunders (of the infamous Jalianwallah bagh incident) in England!...Whew, what a guy....

On a side note, if I am not wrong; Shaheed Bhagat Singh's brother (also a freedom fighter...and I am really sorry, can't remember his name right away) passed away like not more than 10 days ago...

rkumar
September 20th, 2004, 07:26 PM
On a side note, if I am not wrong; Shaheed Bhagat Singh's brother (also a freedom fighter...and I am really sorry, can't remember his name right away) passed away like not more than 10 days ago...


His name was Kultar Singh..Met him few times.

Rajendra

ravichaudhary
September 20th, 2004, 09:23 PM
Allow me to concede victory to Rajendra and Co.

I wish to thank Rajendra, Neeraj and others for the strength of their debate and bring some excellent information to us all

Hopefully this discussion has raised the awareness amongst us all about the life actions of Charan Singh.

He was the first and only Jat prime minister of Free India.

That in itself is an achievement all Jats can be justly proud of, whichever faith they are from. He serves as a beacon, and a role model for all Jats, who aspire to be better than they are.

To those who wish to compare his actions, and achievements with other leaders, let me say this.

The circumstances into which this leader operated have to be taken into account. In 1930 –1955, was an unsettled period for all Indians. A need to gain freedom from British rule, and to shape our own destiny.

The need was to unite.

The British had sucked dry our country of its resources. The resources were used to finance British wars, and to fund the industrial growth of England. Our education system was decimated and so was our standard of living.


The state of the poor Kisan, the small landowner was reduced to serfdom and worse, bereft of even the dignity of food and shelter, not knowing if they could survive another crop season.

It was into this environment that Charan Singh was born, and to liberate the common man from the clutches of the British and the moneylender became his life’s passion.

His honesty and integrity were such that even has detractors were silenced.

1947 saw a new India, but hungry power grabbers , ushered in a society of corruption, and a loot of the treasury, ruled the new India; the servants had become masters.

It was in this environment that Charan Singh had to operate, and it is tribute to him, that not only did he survive, but went on to hold the highest office of the land. In his life time, against all odds, he united the common man, and ushered in measures that would change their lives ,and the lives of their descendants forever.

Nehruvian India was overwhelmed by Marxist socialist policy. Anyone who had lived through the war years, and saw the plight of the ordinary Indian could not helped by deeply influenced by this. The Nehruvian times ushered in the age of big public sector enterprises, the effect of which was to touch all facets of society from education, the study of history, industry and farming. The soviet model ruled supreme. It is to the immense credit of Charan Singh that despite the tide of Marxism, he saw through it, and saved India for the Indians, by not letting the Marxist commune system invade the Indian environment.

To those who ask, could he no have done more? The answer is, yes ,of course he could have done more.

But that is true of any leader. The wonder is despite the opposing forces he achieved what he did in a singe lifetime

The structural reforms that he introduced transformed the lives of the rural Indian, the majority of our population, It created the wealth that was to flow in the green revolution to come. That wealth which in turn created the multiplier effect and transformed urban India.

He left not only the Jats, but also all Indians a tremendous legacy, which it is our duty to make our mission to build upon.

ravi

rkumar
September 20th, 2004, 09:32 PM
Dear Ravi,

No defeats and no victories here. Great people from our community are like burning candles in whose lights not only we see our path, but keep our faces visible as well...There are many more candles and lamps which need to be kept lit...Together only we can make it happen..

Regards
Rajendra

kulwant
January 17th, 2005, 09:35 PM
Some good book which also through a light on jat freedom struggle can give us better account of our deeds



Hi Everyone,
I wanted to know about Jat's participation in India's freedom struggle, prominent leaders and freedom fighters, and cities in Haryana, where freedom struggle took place.

Neha Grewal

chhoraharyanada
January 18th, 2005, 01:54 AM
Hi Everyone,
I wanted to know about Jat's participation in India's freedom struggle, prominent leaders and freedom fighters, and cities in Haryana, where freedom struggle took place.

Neha Grewal

Hi,

I recently bought this book off Amazon ... "1857 struggle in Haryana" by KC Yadav.

Talks about Jat maharajas of ballabgarh, Ahir revolt and uprising in Ambala - there's probably much more but I'm only a couple of chapters in.

Regards and RAM RAM.