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dahiyarules
August 7th, 2005, 10:08 AM
Ram Ram to all members!

Yesterday, I was talking to a young lad, who came to know me through this website. As our conversation proceeded, I asked him the the big question: Why do people want to get Civil Serives/IAS jobs. there seems to be a mad rush for these opportunities. What is it thats so glamoros and appealing about these jobs. After all these are ordinary Government jobs with very ordinary pay scales. I had already done my homework, and came up with the following information about the pay packages of civil servants:

The Government of India has fixed salary grades for Civil Servants. Approximately the range of salaries drawn at various levels is as follows:
Junior Officers: Rs. 8000-275-13500
Senior Officers: Rs. 10650-325-15200
Junior Administrative Grade: Rs. 12,750-375-16,500
Selection Grade: Rs. 15,100-400-18,300
Additional Secretary: Rs. 22400-525-24500
Secretary/Cabinet Secretary: Rs. 26,000/30,000 (The above scales only provide an idea of the pay scales. Different branches of the service have different scales of pay.)

In addition to the salary civil servants receive various allowances such as Dearness Allowance, City compensatory Allowance, Leave Travel Allowance, Medical and subsidised housing.

I have several friends back in India who make much more than an IAS officer, any given day, working in the private sector.

COming back to the discussion, the lad gave me the the following reasons:

1. Its a middle class thing.
2. Job security.
3. Prestige.

The "Job security" factor didnt go down too well with me. I told him that job security comes with a job that you love to do. If you are in a job where you wont get fired, then I think that you are stuck with the job.

the stinky part was that I felt something was missing. The job position is that of a civil servant, or in leighmans terms, a public servant. This person is supposed to be providing service to the public, and gets paid for that.

Service to the public, was nowhere in his reasons for becoming a civil servant.

No offence to the lad. I think its the brightest and the best who get selected for IAS job positions. And they are supposed to help to the best of their ability, the people who they serve. And if they have such selfish reasons for getting a job, paid for by my tax money, then I see no reason why my government should be hiring such people.

I want this young man to work hard, and get selected for hi dream job. And I want him to be successful in his career. But I also want him to do the job that he is paid for.

Whatever the interpretation of my post, but it once again proves my point that privately provided services are better than the government provided services (services that never materialize). While private secirty providers have an incentive of get more business in future by the word of mouth, and thus provide the value for money, the only incentives for government employees areprestige and job security.

Please post your opinions.

anujkumar
August 7th, 2005, 11:43 AM
Ram Ram to all members!

Yesterday, I was talking to a young lad, who came to know me through this website. As our conversation proceeded, I asked him the the big question: Why do people want to get Civil Serives/IAS jobs. there seems to be a mad rush for these opportunities. What is it thats so glamoros and appealing about these jobs. After all these are ordinary Government jobs with very ordinary pay scales. I had already done my homework, and came up with the following information about the pay packages of civil servants:

The Government of India has fixed salary grades for Civil Servants. Approximately the range of salaries drawn at various levels is as follows:
Junior Officers: Rs. 8000-275-13500
Senior Officers: Rs. 10650-325-15200
Junior Administrative Grade: Rs. 12,750-375-16,500
Selection Grade: Rs. 15,100-400-18,300
Additional Secretary: Rs. 22400-525-24500
Secretary/Cabinet Secretary: Rs. 26,000/30,000 (The above scales only provide an idea of the pay scales. Different branches of the service have different scales of pay.)

In addition to the salary civil servants receive various allowances such as Dearness Allowance, City compensatory Allowance, Leave Travel Allowance, Medical and subsidised housing.



Here is what an IAS office gets:

1) A one acre bungalow in the heart of the city. Free travel anytime, anywhere, first class and enough money to live.

But he really gets is the ability to make a difference in the life of a million people. It's not a job - it's responsibility bestowed upon you, of course with the power to execute.

When you take a ride in that car with red siren, with 5 cars (with the siren too) following yours and 5 preceding, and you go to ten village, everything is all set as you reach there, and solve problems troubling people - in a flash, settling disputes. You would wonder problem likes? - likes the ones mentioned in the Hooda post.

Then you have a show!

If at the end of your term in a district - you conclude, you made a difference - encroachment over, crime decreased, efficiency in government services improved. Then you get a feeling - puchline in every career counselor talk - job satisfaction. BTW it's BS word, you can NEVER get job satisfaction if all you care about is perks and leaving early on Friday afternoon.



No office - no timing - you work 24 hours. You take decisions which changes lives.

Then you have a show!

One example come to my mind - VP Sing (our ex PM, very elite and well to do family), his nephew, was DM of Meerut some time back. Some guy, whose building was to go down, in the anti encroachment drive, came to him with a lack or two. He accepted, but next day bulldozer were busy bringing down that very building and our DM was also present. The guy comes to him and says what about the money and he says, yeah here it is - but it 'll go government fund as donation and be glad that I am excusing you.




I have several friends back in India who make much more than an IAS officer, any given day, working in the private sector.


Doing what coding in Java? And spending that money to buy a car? Or paying for the rent and finally achieve their life long objective to buy a home in Noida or Poona. I don’t see ANY possibility of comparison here as a “profession”


COming back to the discussion, the lad gave me the the following reasons:

1. Its a middle class thing.
2. Job security.
3. Prestige.

The "Job security" factor didnt go down too well with me. I told him that job security comes with a job that you love to do. If you are in a job where you wont get fired, then I think that you are stuck with the job.

Job security argument is used for other government job. Not civil services. It’s too small a work for that job.




the stinky part was that I felt something was missing. The job position is that of a civil servant, or in leighmans terms, a public servant. This person is supposed to be providing service to the public, and gets paid for that.

Service to the public, was nowhere in his reasons for becoming a civil servant.

No offence to the lad. I think its the brightest and the best who get selected for IAS job positions. And they are supposed to help to the best of their ability, the people who they serve. And if they have such selfish reasons for getting a job, paid for by my tax money, then I see no reason why my government should be hiring such people.

I want this young man to work hard, and get selected for hi dream job. And I want him to be successful in his career. But I also want him to do the job that he is paid for.


I would suggest to avoid the VERY patronizing way of writing that you indulge in. They are doing their jobs. As explained above it’s not a business of producing and selling toilet paper.



Whatever the interpretation of my post, but it once again proves my point that privately provided services are better than the government provided services (services that never materialize). While private secirty providers have an incentive of get more business in future by the word of mouth, and thus provide the value for money, the only incentives for government employees areprestige and job security.

Please post your opinions.
[/QUOTE]

You know what those (the civil services, beurocrats) are the best jobs even here in US. We don’t see that for obvious reasons.

brainspeak
August 7th, 2005, 01:18 PM
hi sumit ...i am the one u were talking to......and our discussion had just started on this topic when i had to leave midway....and i couldnt answer ur queires fully....
firstly dude job secutity is one of the biggest thing acc to me if one is going for any kind of job....and if i wouldnt love this job why would i go for it??.....how did u come to the conclusoion tht i wont be loving it or tht i hate civil services yet i am slogging for it??.....
secondly.....if u go through the profile of the candidates selected each year u will see wht i mean by the middle class phenomneon.....parents especially slaried class want their children to join this service(maybe the leagacy of the british raj)....and children also get inspired by their parents who r already in these services....earlier the vacancies were too much and their was mad rush for them but even now when the openings are not much there is large number of people preparing for the exam....
thirdly.....prestige and i must say power also are the guiding factors for this job for many....
and ur exact words were--"Service to the public, was nowhere in his reasons for becoming a civil servant.".......well dude i cant claim tht i would do this for the public or tht for the public infact nobody can....... thts for the politicians to say.......of course a person getting selected will work
for the people otherwise wht else will he do??....thts his job.....just like a programmer hired in a s/f firm......its expected of him tht he will be dong the coding.....
and u talk abt money dude......it is just means to an end.....even i was making more tthen the amount u mentioned....before leaving it.....
well thanx for the wishes ...do need them a lot!!.......and if anyone else is preparing for the exam plz do let me know.......bbye tc and God bless u all!

dahiyarules
August 7th, 2005, 01:33 PM
Civil Services is doubtlessly a very well respected career. I wish I had the mettle to even think about it.

Kuldeep has indeed done a wonderful job explaining his reasons. I admire him for his dedication, and I have a strong feeling that he will make it through. More than anything else, I appreciate his honesty. Truly said: Politicans are the ones who make promises to serve the people.

Everytime I think of public services: it reminds me of the shabby state of public roads. 12 hour powercuts, and phones going dead for months. For some reason I love Haryana Roadways. Everytime I take the Delhi-Jhajjar rocket, I always get a seat, never got in a crash, get cheap and ripe oranges, and always wonder how does this thing manage to fly so fast.

Logic is subjective. We all have our own ways of looking at things. And we all are correct, in our own reasoning. Both the reasonings I have got so far for my thread are strongly backed. I hope that more members come forward and provide their worthy views.

raj_rathee
August 8th, 2005, 12:21 AM
Civil Services is doubtlessly a very well respected career. I wish I had the mettle to even think about it.


I wouldn't want to cast doubts on anyone's aspirations. But as it stands
today most people who try to go into civil servicies aren't exactly
going because of the "service" component. They go into it because
of their belief that it will get them "power, prestige and MONEY", and help
the middle-classers move up many notches in social/financial standing
all without taking any substantial risk (the classical middle-class "sarkari
naukri" waali approach).

In the early-mid 90s a newly minted IAS commanded 1 Crore in dowry.
I don't know how they are selling for now.

Are these careers still being called "civil services"? I thought they would
be called "self services" by now.

The good thing was that with the opening up of the economy and
the new high tech jobs, a lot of our bright minds actually stopped
seeing "self services" as that great a deal...and sought other
pastures. So perhaps the quality of candidates might actually have
dropped over time. But that's all conjecture. With our population
there isn't much of a shortage for anything.

However, I do remember that the military was finding itself short
of talented officers sometime back. I suppose the good "candidates"
would rather sit in comfortable air-conditioned offices rather than
risk their lives fighting in Kasmir or Nagaland.

Well, can't really blame them.

Now don't tell me that majority of the NDA candidates are going there because of some deep sense of patriotic duty. "Yeah, right !"

khoushi
August 9th, 2005, 06:10 PM
Hello Kuldeep well i am to prepare for I.A.S., if u have any guidance for me pls do convey ,thanks.
hi sumit ...i am the one u were talking to......and our discussion had just started on this topic when i had to leave midway....and i couldnt answer ur queires fully....
firstly dude job secutity is one of the biggest thing acc to me if one is going for any kind of job....and if i wouldnt love this job why would i go for it??.....how did u come to the conclusoion tht i wont be loving it or tht i hate civil services yet i am slogging for it??.....
secondly.....if u go through the profile of the candidates selected each year u will see wht i mean by the middle class phenomneon.....parents especially slaried class want their children to join this service(maybe the leagacy of the british raj)....and children also get inspired by their parents who r already in these services....earlier the vacancies were too much and their was mad rush for them but even now when the openings are not much there is large number of people preparing for the exam....
thirdly.....prestige and i must say power also are the guiding factors for this job for many....
and ur exact words were--"Service to the public, was nowhere in his reasons for becoming a civil servant.".......well dude i cant claim tht i would do this for the public or tht for the public infact nobody can....... thts for the politicians to say.......of course a person getting selected will work
for the people otherwise wht else will he do??....thts his job.....just like a programmer hired in a s/f firm......its expected of him tht he will be dong the coding.....
and u talk abt money dude......it is just means to an end.....even i was making more tthen the amount u mentioned....before leaving it.....
well thanx for the wishes ...do need them a lot!!.......and if anyone else is preparing for the exam plz do let me know.......bbye tc and God bless u all!

praveendangi
August 10th, 2005, 09:54 AM
hello mr. sumit
sumit u r right, pay scale is not good in these services but u know wat, its a very respectful and very powerful job,,
we jatt ppl cant do any work under someone, so these civil services have their own value,IAS and HCS both r gr8 job,
kisi ne keha hai job kero to IAS or HCS ki...
but today its very diff task for doing these civil services, all politicins wants money, i heard so many names who r IAS and HCS and they don't know a single word abt these services, they r IAS..so wat abt a middle class family , dont know wat happens in future, everything is corrupted,

kundujat
August 10th, 2005, 10:12 AM
Sahi kaha sumit,

These jobs are ' Service motive' oriented jobs.

Paisa to duniya mein bhatera hai but ijjat aur samaj ke liye kuchh karne ka mauka milta hai ye job karne se.

Ar bhai jisne chori karni hai wo to har jagah karega, chahe IAS lagalo ya chaprasi.

But one thing is certain, specially for Haryana state, you need the power in your hands to do some good and have a say which these jobs offer you.

Kisi ka bhala tabhi kar sakte ho jab khud seena chora karke khare ho sako.

hamendra
August 10th, 2005, 11:17 AM
Mere Bhaioyao,
All of us are running after the money. That's the truth. Either we are getting it either through the JAVA/C/C++ etc coding or Civil Services.

But, At least I get the satisfaction to get the money by doing the JAVA coding.

It gives the satisfaction that, I am not earning that amount illegally (I am still living in typical village. Even in this period, If a farmer goes for the Tubel Connection, Your Civil Service people ask for money. )

Mere Bhaiyo,
After getting the post, forget the everything. Aaj ka garib, bahut garib aur uski sunne bala koi nahi hai.
Jitne bhee(Mostly more than 80%) Civil Servicers hai, Sirf paisa kama rahe hai.

Following mentioned link is of corrupt officers.
http://cvc.nic.in/vscvc/iasma.htm