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Thread: Missing links in Jat History

  1. #121

    Dear Vinod

    Dear Vinod,
    i cant give you a link about this informations because that site is not in english.I tell you ,i was surprise that i can not find on jat forum any conection betwin jats from India,and gets from Romania.I was read about the conection betwin jats and serbs(9milions) or croatians(4milions),betwin jats and goths,but no conection betwin jats and romanians(28milions).
    The first name of Romania was Getia(Getsia is pronunce)in 450BC(see Herodot)and Dacia(Dachia or Dokya,is aproximative pronunce in english)in 100AD.So Romania was inhabited by the gets(in romanian is get at singular form and geti or getsi at plural form)also name dacians by the romans.In 60Bc the getic king Burebista united all getic tribes from north of Danube river,and settled the capital at Sarmisegetusa in south of Transilvania.After his death his state was split in 5 smaller states.In 105AD the romans whit an army of 150000 man,succeded to defeat the getic king Decebal army(40000 man) and to concore the capital Sarmisegetusa.Romans control the 40% of getic teritory until 271AD ,when roman administration and army retread at south of Danube.The name of Dacia was change in Vallahia,name give by slavs and germans to people from Roman Empire.But still name Dacia apear periodicly in medieval texts alternative to name Vallahia.Romania is the name given in 1856 to ex-Dacia.Romania was the name of greek Bisantine Empire(527-1453AD).
    Every true romanian knows that his ancestors was the gets,the dacians or the geto-dacians(dacians are the same people whit the gets,just like nipons are the same people whit japanese,or yankee whit americans).
    Here is a link:
    http://images.google.ro/imgres?imgur...lr%3D%26sa%3DG
    See on Google ,Sarmisegetusa;We are not the descendents of Rome;

  2. #122
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    SOKA plz let me more about yourself

    R u native romani? R u a student of history? what r your common surnames? how is ur social system. do you avoid marriage between same gotras/goths/surnames like indian jats do. perhaps pakistani jats also do the same.

  3. #123
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    alexander met 2 porus

    one was big porus n the other one was small porus. that means porus was a clan n not name. porus jats r found in MP and UP till today.

  4. #124
    We find Jats living in alxender times in Rig veda times, we even notice genes of Indus valley having same similarity(?) we find their ancient agglutinate writing(present in ancient jat nation) similar with indus script, we find lord Shiva worshipped right from Indus valley up to this day. We dont see any evidence of genocide or destruction on such a wide nation as ancient indus valley nation no break any where from indus to modern times. we find these people mantaing their culture and influencing others more than being influenced.What does it show?what a great surprise the same inhabitants of this land since ancient times were not even considered the authors of this civilization.Have u ever seen the police recommending the ownership of articles recovered from a houce to a neighbour than to the houceowner itself?These police man(historians) are doing the same. It looks certainly that Indus people were todays Jats and Banias(representing dravidian base) excelling in Trade and Agriculture there great co-operation is even observed in Kushan periods when Jat king helped MANGLA(Bania) kings of tarim basin against chinese aggression and when these kings always got the support of Indian traders of indus region as recorded in historical annals. The only change seems to be of writing script.As compare to proto-dravidian and proto-austerloid theories This theory of narenderkharb looks more reasonable please try to refute it so that it can be refined and could be presented in a better way.Since the extent of this nation was vast and these people were known to greeks also as their neighbours so they told a mere fact that these people are same race of gets,jets living in north west India, hence this confusin of their arrival from west.The same thing applied to chinese who immidiately identified Jats of Kushan period who though pronounced jete were written as yuhezi and hence is the confusion.Our historians have followed the tradition of english who names four kings rambir,sukhbir, dharambir and manbir to belong to BIRA dynasty.Pls criticse don,t support this theory.

  5. #125
    these are the four theories proposed about the people of Indus valley
    1.Asko parpola theory- Indus people were darvidians.
    2.Witzel Theory- They were Austro- asiatic people
    3 Hasan Dhan theoryi- Probably Central asian people
    4.Kharb theory- They were Jat-Vanik(bania) people.

    Which among these four theories is supported is supported by scientific evidence such as DNA analysis.Your scrutinization required.

  6. #126
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    well kharab

    good 2 hear from you. there is no doubt that gupta resembles goth/got/govt/gopt/gupt. i've great respect for these people. even dharan guptas (of vikram betal fame) may have some descendents among these people. most of their 17.5 gotras are from jats only. aryans were/are called barbarians. herodotus calls jats as barbarian. recently my mother krishna devi filed a writ in the delhi high court on deletion of some history chips in ncert about 2-3 yrs back. i was in jnu. i know romila thapar n other historians thr. though i'm in no way attached with them in n e ideaology.
    but one of her research scholar explained that barbarian means little known people. the same is the meaning of guptas. and same is the meaning of jats.

    about persian wars writes herodotus "in all the bloody fights in which these barbarians engage themselves, this was the fiercest. first they faught on horse back with arrows, when exhausted .... " they came to personal fight like kushti. thats how he mentions the cyrus-vudh i.e. the killing of cyrus the great by dabas/dahiya jats under the leadership of their queen tomyris.

    its also true that there are no proofs of mass scale destruction causing the end of indus valley civilization. n its also true that indus valley people were mostly traders n peace loving.

    its also true that jats/aryans wandered about in the whole world but real n ever lasting results of vedic and later vedic civilizations were found here only in the indo gangetic plain.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by narenderkharb
    . It looks certainly that Indus people were todays Jats and Banias(representing dravidian base) excelling in Trade and Agriculture there great co-operation is even observed in Kushan periods when Jat king helped MANGLA(Bania) kings of tarim basin against chinese aggression and when these kings always got the support of Indian traders of indus region as recorded in historical annals. .
    Kharab Bhai
    The notion of a Dravadian race seperate from rest of the Indians is baseless.

    Also history of South India is filled with countless examples of Kshatriyas having established great empires since the time of Ramayan. (Ravan and Lanka are too familiar to all of us) So clubbing them as Banias is incorrect. Societies complete in all respects and functions have ben surviving even in South India since times immomarial.

    Google Search - Vedic Roots of Early Tamil Culture.

  8. #128
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    13 gardabhas (donkeys) will rule the earth

    said bhavishya purana. that means 13 khar/khar(ab) jats will rule the earth. often writers of purans were baffled by jat surnames/gotras n tried 2 derive its hindi/sanskrit/prakrit meaning. they converted more jats of asokas fame to peacock tamers/eaters. bains jats of punjab to bainsasur/bhainsasur/mahishasur. morasur/narasur (more n nehra jats)

  9. #129
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    samrat harsha

    whether he was bains or virk jat, recruited aila and bana as his two bodyguards. they were ailawat/ahlawat and bana jats. ailasur and banasur.

    n then in chingez (jamugha) army bela nayan/nain was his main senapati, a nain jat, now a days often found around sirsa region in haryana.

    taimur was lucky enough to be escaped from jatta khoja ohlan (the goth of sir chhoturam) in mongolia and from jat sarvkhap panchayat in western UP in India.

    every jat in mongolia was born on horse back. taimur prayed to allah "plz snatch a horse frm jat, n without horse jat is powerless"

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by sampuran
    Kharab Bhai
    The notion of a Dravadian race seperate from rest of the Indians is baseless.

    Also history of South India is filled with countless examples of Kshatriyas having established great empires since the time of Ramayan. (Ravan and Lanka are too familiar to all of us) So clubbing them as Banias is incorrect. Societies complete in all respects and functions have ben surviving even in South India since times immomarial.
    Google Search - Vedic Roots of Early Tamil Culture.
    Dear sampuran bhai
    I expected ur knee jerk reaction. Aapne article sampuranly nahi padha.
    Can u clarify clubbing south indian kshtraiyas as Bania is incorrect.
    Banias known as aggerwals are living since ancient times in indus area and is a racial group who has kings like aggarsen,infact I mentioned one of their kings with a surname mangala ruling Tarim Basin.They are traders par excellence.Can't they be the south indian kshtriya.And what is this kshtriya is it a racial group?Some of this Vedic Sanatanis are not ready to accept even Jats as kshtriya
    you really belive that every indian south or north indian belong to one genetic race
    I expected ur critical view on wether jats could be the authors of great indus civilization.pls don't change attention to great vedic great hindhu,India cause, voiceofdharma stuff.

  11. #131
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    kharab sahib

    perhaps its a surname for "kauravas", kharavas.

    n then 13 gardabhas will rule the earth. may be bhavishya parana named u people.

    in fact khar/kar was their clan name. it meant gadha/hasta in hindi/sanskrit. kar pur means hastinapur. kharkoda a village of jats in rohtak n meerut.

    i'd like u 2 explore "yudhithilla the gotta ruling over inddpatta", means yudhishthira the jat ruling over indraprastha.

    many of our names along the banks of rivers were ending as patta. sonipatta, panipatta, patlipataa (patli putra).

    in fact in braj its common 2 add patta with pani.

    "pani putta piye go"

    similar was inddputta (indra prastha), modern delhi, the tughlakabad, purana quila.

    dadi of muhhamad bin tughlak was jat. n hence he was so intelligent.

    his fore father (ghazi mullik) married a jat lady from punjab.
    that time quablai khan (his co-brother jat) in china started the leather coins. he copied him.

    historians were baffled with this name kharab meaning multiplication of multi plication. hence gandhari was called the mother of countless people. say a common jat knew maximum hundred only. thats why "shatputri bhava"

    jats were the most innocent people never knowing what they are/were

    never knowing even the counting of 29

    bees noi

    bees or nau
    do kum bees for 18

    char kum tees means 26

    my nani used to count like this.

    but they were the most numerous people.

    n bravest too.

    try brewal along with grewal on net.

    enter into marathis, maha-rathis of rashtrakutas fame.

    every name ends with kar

    solkar, gawaskar, holker, wadekar,....etc.

    marathis were recent conversion to hinduism. n hence proud of this khar/kar/kaurav clan of mahabharats fame.

    jats descended on this indian sub-continent or may be original inhabitants like tooffaann.

  12. #132
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    yes

    siva was a combination of vedic god rudra n tamil god murugan. however real pashupati was jat. from behl (caste of punjabi khatris) meaning bail (ox) was his sawari.
    these sibia jats faced allexander the great.

    they were ruling over chittore/jittore after mauryan empire.

  13. #133
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    SOKA plz let me more about yourself

    ur number is always busy. plz give me a missed call. so that i'll contact u later.

    tewatia

  14. #134
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    plz give me a missed call on 91-9213228892 or 91-9312180934

    plz give me a missed call on 91-9213228892 or 91-9312180934

  15. #135
    Dear Bhavishya purani
    I wonder why u get upset every time when i suggest jats could be the author of great indus valley civilization both at JAT HISTORY FORM earlier and now here also.If they are not, try to give reason just don't go berserk.The type of research you are doing with the help of bavisya puran Vayu puran make me feel sorry about the future of institute where u say i am scientist.What will u loose if jats are found as the original inhabitants of this land and anyway it is a theory.Don't get upset because when u loose your cool u tear your skin and expose ur contemt for jats by raising questions pertaining to tughalk etc.u might have heard story of cloured siyar,pls donot cry by seeming this Indus moon.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by sktewatia
    dadi of muhhamad bin tughlak was jat. n hence he was so intelligent.
    muhamad bin tughlak was intelligent

    hamne to history me padha hai ki woh pagal badshaha thaa.

  17. #137

    Trying to answer

    Maybe i can to dismantle your theory.I was trying to be short as posible.In the first way you must know that area betwin Indus Valey,Iran mountains,Anatolia,(like Catal Huyuc in Turkey),Caucaz,Balkans(Vinca-Turdas,Cucuteni,Gumalnita cultures),other small places in Europe(Altamira in Spain,Font de Gaume in France)have the same artistic stile patern(we call it today oriental),same dominant religion-fertility cult(Shiva and Mother earth)and the same advance tehnology(the most advance in the world at that time).I dont say that this people dont worship other gods,like sky gods,but fertility cult was dominant.In the religion of nomads the dominant gods was the sky gods(sun,sky or sun gods),not the earth-fertility gods.Also,nomads have a tendenty for monotheism.To semites nomads apear monotheistic abrahamic religions(iudaism,islam),To aryan nomads apear solar monotheism and zoroastrian belive(Ahura Mazda=Great Sun initialy,probable).Area betwin Egipt and Mesopotamia was dominate by semitic nomads.Area betwin Balkan,Baltic and India was dominate by aryan nomades.Parently area betwin India and Balkans(folow alpino-carpato-himalayan mountains)was initialy more develope then Egipt and Sumer.The agriculture of big rivers(Nil,Tiger,Indus)kud sustain a more big population then Anatolia and other montan areas,and over 60 times more population then nomadic land.In 2500BC Egipt population was 1milion,Sumar have 0,5milion,Indus have 1,5-2 milion(over60% of aryandominate land).Aparition of large scale writing apear when nomads concore agricultural populations.In Egipt-3100Bc semitic nomads concore egiptian agricultors.In Mesopotamia-3300BC sumerian nomads concore ubaidian agricultors.In Indus-2500Bc aryan nomades concore indus agricultors.In China-1200BC manchurian nomads concore Yelow River agricultors.In America-600BC maya nomads concore olmec agricultors.In all this cases the aparition of large scale writing coincide whit nomadic concuest.Aryans and semites bring flexible grammar over aglutinate language of agricultores.
    What new tings the nomads bring? The answer is changes in language of agricultors.For exemple greek language have 50% non-aryan(pre-aryan) words,and sanskrit have an least 30% non aryan words.However is hard to know how much of the word are really aryan because agricultors from Balkan,Anatolia and Indus have the same origin and probably similar language.Basic vocabular like relatives,felings,most pronouns and prepositions, most of the basic nouns and verbs of family, and many terms of subsistence agriculture.By contrast, the vocabulary of urban life, luxury, religion,administration, political life, commercial agriculture,sofistication and abstraction is pre-aryan.Also nomadic influence is present in religion wre sky gods became dominants and they are put at the top of the Pantheon of gods.In Egipt,Ra(sun)-In Sumer,Anu(sky)-In Indus,Indra(rain)-In Anatolia,Sun goddes-become dominat gods.Vishnu(sky,sun) replace Shiva(earth,fertility) at the top of Pantheon and become the dominant god.However the atributes of this 2 gods are mingled over time(Vishnu obtain atributes of Shiva,and Shiva obtain atributes of Vishnu).In most religions exist a dominant triad(3gods)-a sky god and a fertil pair(Shiva+Shatki).In China Taoism is Shiva philosophy and Confucianism is Vishnu philosophy.
    Agricultors from Indo-balkanic area posesed the most elevat and advance language in the world.Nomads use the rites ,the abstract language,the praiers,stilistic tipe of the agricultors in order to worship their celestial gods.The Vedas(Indus),the Avesta(east Iran,influence by Indus),the hittite-mittani-hurian hyms and praies belonge to the same stilistic tipe and patern.

  18. #138

    2

    Nomads did not destroy the agricutors.Sumerian nomads did not destroy ubaid culture.Semit nomads did not destroy egiptian culture.Aryan nomads did not destroy indus,anatolian or siryan cultures.Disparition of a civilisation mean the process of ruralisation(the cities are deserted).Disparition of a civilisation did not mean disparition of the people who form that civilisation.Nomads cant and dont want to destroy a population much biger then their own.Disparition of Roman Empire was not a instant disparition,but lasted for centuries.Romans did not die but just deserted their cities.The atacs of out-siders,but more the heavy taxes on the sholders of poor people(who form 90% of empire population) bring the economic decadence of empire.The out-siders easy setled in empire and splited in small kingdoms.The poor people open the doors of Rome to out-siders who put much smaler taxes then roman emperors.
    The eruption of Santorini vulcan in 1450BC did not kill all minoic people,but destroy the comercial and military fleet and harbours.Distructions cause by volcano lead to non-confidence in gods(who didnt protect them)and their earthly representants(king and priests),which bring to rebelion and internal desagregation.whitout military fleet,minoic cretans was defensless in face of aryan invaders who concore them in 1400Bc,but cities was al ready deserted.
    Same maya didnt disapiear,but a drought of a couple of years,in 800BC,cause economic decline and deserted of the cities.Mayas speakers still exist today in Mexic.And the same is the case for inca.In fact are more incas today then in Inca Empire.
    Indus civilisation folow the same patern.The desertification and disparition of some rivers and posible internal tensions(got a question-if indus people was peaceful,how they create war stories like Mahabharata and Ramayana?)bring slow economical decline,desertsion of cities and migration to east(Gange),south(Deccan)and west(Iran).
    Iranian group(schitians, massa getae etc)create a art that become dominant in Europe starting whit 2000BC.Before that european art was pure oriental.Oriental art was using bright or mistical colours,organicity of ornaments and praise life fertility,life,dance,nature.Schito-iranian art was using steril and grey colours,dis-organic ornaments,and praise war,power and hunting.The most good exemple we have in ancient Crete when life art of minoans(2000-1500BC) was replace by war like art of micenians(1400-1100BC).This art became dominat in Europe(along whit the greek art heavy infuenced by Egipt and phoenicians),but in Orient ancient the old art still develope today.
    Indus civilisation was at the first more conected whit Sumer,Anatolia and Egipt then whit Bengal,tamil nadu or Deccan land.But after migration tings was change.The 4 big rivers souround by arid land and deserts give us today the 4 big civilisations:Indus-India,Sumer-Central Asia,Yelow River-China,Egipt-Europe.
    The qwestion is now how a nomadic population can impose his language over a 10 time biger population of agricultors?
    We have exemples like arabs in Egipt(today egiptians are genetic the direct descendens of ancient egiptians,but speak a new language arab),slavs in Balkans,celts,romans,incas,hungarians and many many others.But the best exemple is Turkey.For 3000 years Turkey was a land whit aryan speakers.Starting whit 400AD from west-China a mongoloid group concore Kazahstan area,and impose turkish language over iranian nomads.In 1000AD turks concore Anatolia and in 500 years succesfull impose turkish language(and islam).Genetic show that majority of turks are in Anatolia before nomadic invasion from 1000AD.The culture before the turks survive and develope.
    If aryans came from India,then all indo-european languages must having basic dentals from sanskrit(d,th,t) but they dont have this dentals as basic.If aryans came from India then why they change a oriental(an indian)art whit a non-oriental(and non-indian)art?
    The place of aryan nomads is dificult to fixed because they was in constant movement betwin west-China,Iran and Ukraine,since prehystoric time.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by narenderkharb
    Dear sampuran bhai
    I expected ur knee jerk reaction. Aapne article sampuranly nahi padha.
    Can u clarify clubbing south indian kshtraiyas as Bania is incorrect.
    Banias known as aggerwals are living since ancient times in indus area and is a racial group who has kings like aggarsen,infact I mentioned one of their kings with a surname mangala ruling Tarim Basin.They are traders par excellence.Can't they be the south indian kshtriya.And what is this kshtriya is it a racial group?Some of this Vedic Sanatanis are not ready to accept even Jats as kshtriya
    you really belive that every indian south or north indian belong to one genetic race
    I expected ur critical view on wether jats could be the authors of great indus civilization.pls don't change attention to great vedic great hindhu,India cause, voiceofdharma stuff.
    Kharab Bhai
    Maine aapka point Sampoornaly phad liya hai. I think I have much more to say. That will be after some days. I am busy with a important task during the coming week.
    C U.

  20. #140
    Dear Soko
    I am not able to contact you. Which of my theory you wanted to dismantle wether Indus Theory or explanation about Jat genes in Turkey blood. This is what we expect from u and every jat theories are theories they have to be varified ,if found untrue we still make progress towards truth via elimination process.As far as persons like Hooda are concerned they don't seems to be Jats itself,which have their openions courtsy reasons best explained by Ravi ji.Respected members of this form should not waste their precious time in verbal duels with such persons. As far Sampuran Bhai I would say we are proud of our Hindu religion also in addition to our jat blood but please don't change our focuss from Jats to a wider convass,if u got hurt by my comments Ifeel sorry.

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