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Thread: Missing links in Jat History

  1. #181
    the more one thinks of waxing moon, like in jatas of siva, more is he lost in those jatas, like jatas of siva is mentioned.

    sivas jata is like anttariksh, where moon is just a part (in sky). hence depicted in His jatas...

    siva's jata is not that jat was born from. in fact siva himself was jata who invaded india for the first time. greeks called Him diosis.

    this vanishes the theory of aryan invasion. where siva is found as pashupati in indus valley and later as rudra (rulane wala) in rigvedic gods.

    romila later writes siva as amalgam of rudra and tamil god murugam but that fails to synthesys the theorys from indus to vedic jats, n even later as post vedic...
    Last edited by amiteshv; January 3rd, 2008 at 04:50 AM.

  2. #182
    bhagirath in fact was a great civil engineer, theories say that he snatched ganga from jatas of siva. its sources as depicted in geogrphy, may turn it like brahmputra also. had bhagirath not done enough digging it might well gone off its track, in china also. in fact sources of all great rivers that jats are found around are nearly same and at one point in himalayas, like ganges, yamuna, indus, brahmputra..etc.

    in fact jat is another name synonymous with water and earth. in ujjain where from passes kark rekha (the tropic of cancer) and another jantar mantar is there and henec new eras and kumbh melas emerging from there. dr. kp jaiswal finds symbols of fish and land over there like dharti paani as if all scientists are searching for planets in universe with water etc....

    n ujjain was known after gutasya (jat's) putra (son)..like hastinapur..etc..
    Last edited by amiteshv; January 3rd, 2008 at 04:50 AM.

  3. #183

    Queen Dahiya

    Queen Kahina Dahiya was most notableof black Jewish nationalists. She was descendant of one of the priestly Black Jewish families of North Africa. She is said to be part of a small tribe of Berbers, the Jerawa, who were converts to Judaism.

    When the Muslims invaded Algeria, Queen Kahina Dahiya led a final defensive battle against the Arabian empire in her region of Northern Africa. Dahiya was able to defeat the armies of Hasan ibn al Numan. The Arabic armies left the region and Kahina Dahiya ruled as queen for five years. Legend has it that she was a harsh and unsympathetic ruler.

    When the Muslim empire became stronger, the Arabs invaded again, and this time, the Jerawa army was unable to defend themselves. Dahiya Kahina was killed in battle at the beginning of the 8th century.

    Jewish scholars have not established if Dahiya Kahina was Jewish. It has been recorded in Arabic texts that she fought the Muslim armies in defense of her land, rather than for religious reasons.

    One might like note here that we have Jerawa tribe in Andaman nicobar islands also and are the most ruthless of all tribes. This tribe has resisted all government efforts to bring them in main stream. Sounds a very Jat characterstics.

    Does'nt it prove deeper links of Jats all the way to Africa ?

    RK^2

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by rkumar View Post
    More I read about our history, more missing links I find. Through this thread I will make some efforts to unearth some of these missing links and invite members also to contribute to this thread. May be at times my logics might appear totally absurd, but still let me make sincere efforts. Basic assumptions of my hypothesis would invariably be that we human migrate either during wars or famines or during other natural calamities and to some extent for better opportunities. Wars lead to polarisation of populations and give rise to different ideologies. I would therefore assume that;

    1. Major population shift must have taken place from India during Ramayan and Mahabharat wars. Lot is known what all went on during Lord Rama's time, but not much after Luv-Kush periods. Let me venture first on this part of our history. As we know, centre of power during Luv-Kush period shifted to present day Pakistan. The reasons for such shift could have been many. Usually people name their children after the names of Kings or great people. Going by this logic one would imagine that Rama, Luv and Kush must have been very common names during post Rama period and the areas where such names became common, must certainly be the part of their kingdom or other dependent kingdoms. With this logic I started my search and looked into biblical records. Following are my initial findings;

    1. http://www.british-israel.ca/Elam.pdf

    Going through the above link titled "Elam in Prophecy" I noticed that Rama (mentioned as Ramah and Kush (mentioned as Cush) were the names of people in Elam empire and even in present day Egypt. Then there are names like Amarphel, Banipal etc that are no different than present day common Jat names. There were towns like Ellasar, sounding very similar to Manesar, Amritsar and Parvatsar. My very strong feeling is that Balyan Gotra of Jat has to do something with Babylon. There is mention of places like Harahvati, which in my view are the predators to our present day Haryana. Lots of Jat history is hidden in the history of Elam Empire for sure. There is mention of a place Kundu also in Elam Empire. I think Kundu jats got their surname from this very place. There is very clear mention that Croats and Serbs migrated to Europe from Elam Empire. There is mention that Cush had a son called Nimrod who went against God. I am very inclined to draw from this Nimrod went against lord Rama who was the God of all his forefathers. Nimrod tried to consolidate all the growing families of post-flood mankind. It would be safe for me to assume that this flood was nothing other than the great Pralaya mentioned in Manu-smriti.

    I think above should be food enough to trigger imaginations of members to initiate further debate on the subject.

    Rajendra
    truly fantastic and original imagination

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by rkumar View Post
    Queen Kahina Dahiya was most notableof black Jewish nationalists. She was descendant of one of the priestly Black Jewish families of North Africa. She is said to be part of a small tribe of Berbers, the Jerawa, who were converts to Judaism.

    When the Muslims invaded Algeria, Queen Kahina Dahiya led a final defensive battle against the Arabian empire in her region of Northern Africa. Dahiya was able to defeat the armies of Hasan ibn al Numan. The Arabic armies left the region and Kahina Dahiya ruled as queen for five years. Legend has it that she was a harsh and unsympathetic ruler.

    When the Muslim empire became stronger, the Arabs invaded again, and this time, the Jerawa army was unable to defend themselves. Dahiya Kahina was killed in battle at the beginning of the 8th century.

    Jewish scholars have not established if Dahiya Kahina was Jewish. It has been recorded in Arabic texts that she fought the Muslim armies in defense of her land, rather than for religious reasons.

    One might like note here that we have Jerawa tribe in Andaman nicobar islands also and are the most ruthless of all tribes. This tribe has resisted all government efforts to bring them in main stream. Sounds a very Jat characterstics.

    Does'nt it prove deeper links of Jats all the way to Africa ?

    RK^2

    yes, right u r. once i also thought even the original native american so called red indian were jats, and so were africans too. there are many traits during and before indus valley civilization that kongo river was named after kang jats. kiangnu in china, kang in punjab and king in england..

    similar to hiangnu, the hun, henga chaudharies of mathura agra, the so called sinsinwars, the name givers to china. till today china-india relationship is sino-indian...

    and similar is again kushana the king kanishka, who himself being kushan, the kasuan jat, yet started saka era, because of the most royal clans of satrapas, the sahrawats, the western kshatrapas. the five royal houses of jats from western india, like the ones in marathas, the five royal dynasties,

    like holker (indore), scindias (gwalior), bhonsles (nagpur), gaekwads (ahmadabad)... i hope the fifth were peshwas????

  6. #186

    The Islamic sect Kadiyaniyyah

    Kadiyaniyyah is one of the Islamic test and drives its name from Jat Gotra Kadiyan.

    Principles of the Kadiyaniyyah
    • Prohibition of jihad and call for obedience to the English rulers.
    • Kadiyan and its mosque are equal to Mecca and its mosque, and
    pilgrimage to it is like pilgrimage to Mecca, for it is the third holy
    place [of Islam]…
    • Regarding as infidels those who do not believe in him [Ghulam
    Ahmad, founder of the Kadiyaniyyah sect] and likening them to the
    Jews who disbelieved Christ.

    RK^2
    Last edited by rkumar; February 7th, 2008 at 05:54 AM.

  7. #187

    Banat

    There is a big Jat village called Banat near Shamli in UP. Also there is a large geographical area called Banat in Europe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banat).
    Banat in Europe is populated by the very same people who left Elem Empire in Persia. I have a strong feeling that some of them came and settled in Banat near Shamli.

    There is mention of Banat of Tameswar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banat_of_Temeswar). Tameswar sounds like Maneser, Garh Mukteswar and many other twons in north India with similar sounding names. Tameswar is also a male name in India (http://www.drdabongaigaon.org/iay_wl...idli%20Chirang)

    This seems to prove a strong link between the Jats and the people of Banat in Europe.

    RK^2
    Last edited by rkumar; February 7th, 2008 at 06:14 AM.

  8. #188

    Awadh

    As we all know Awadh is the name of area around Lucknow and draws its name from Ayodhya. Interestingly there is a twon called Bani Awadh in Saudi Arabia also (http://www.traveljournals.net/explor...ani_awadh.html). Awadh is a very common Saudi surname also. This proves that India had very strong cultural influence on pre-islamic Arabia.

    Rajendra

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by rkumar View Post
    As we all know Awadh is the name of area around Lucknow and draws its name from Ayodhya. Interestingly there is a twon called Bani Awadh in Saudi Arabia also (http://www.traveljournals.net/explor...ani_awadh.html). Awadh is a very common Saudi surname also. This proves that India had very strong cultural influence on pre-islamic Arabia.

    Rajendra
    Kalkhandeji Ram Ram

    Indeed there were strong and continuos links between not only Persia but Arabia and Egypt as well. The links below clearly indicate those. How much is attributable to Jats, I can't say. May be experts can have a critical take.
    Vedic Past of Pre-Islamic Arabia
    http://p081.ezboard.com/fhinduunitya...icID=112.topic



    Egypt and India - www.atributetohinduism.com
    - In the ordinary course of nature thousands upon thousands are born every day, but he alone is truly born whose birth leads to the elevation of his race.

  10. #190
    Name of a place is like a radioactive tracer and tells a lot about human migration. Looking at the names of villages in western UP, one can find a pattern and can broadly classify them in different categories;

    1. Tugana, Kudana, Fugana, Budhana, Kutana, Laprana, Silana, Jhinjhana
    2. Bidolli, Sisolli, Titolli, Sanolli, Bamdolli, Gisrolli
    3. Tikrod, Dangrod, Sirohirod

    Like these many more patterns can be worked out. Most of these names don't seem to have any meaning in any known Indian languages.

    Simple google of of these names produces interesting results;

    Tugana: http://www.google.com/search?source=...=Google+Search
    Fugana: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Fugana
    Kudana: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Kudana&btnG=Search
    Kutana: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Kutana&btnG=Search
    Laprana: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Laprana
    Silana: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Silana&btnG=Search
    Bidolli: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Bidolli
    Sisoli: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Sisoli&btnG=Search
    Titolli: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Titolli
    Tikrod: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Tikrod
    Dangrod:http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...&start=20&sa=N

    RK^2
    There are many paths leading to God, politics is certainly not one of them...

  11. #191
    Often we come across names of people like Badlu etc, which appear to be short form of their real name. It surprises me when I found name Badlu across many continents;

    1. http://www.jobster.com/at/person/show/731620
    2. http://www.maplandia.com/iran/khuzestan/band-e-badlu/
    3. http://www.fallingrain.com/world/IR/2/Badlu.html
    4. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/4/64B/954
    5. http://www.blog.co.uk/user/BADLU
    6. http://www.imeem.com/people/PqABt6k
    7. http://names.whitepages.org/last/Badlu

    RK^2
    There are many paths leading to God, politics is certainly not one of them...

  12. #192
    look man. i'm ur bld brdr. bld nvr fix a man like aqbar in his kabr. jats are undoubtely great, no doubt. but u were doing a mistake to burry soka norman in his grave.

  13. #193
    In one of the post under this thread I wrote about Kitchak surname outside India. Here are others with Kitchak surname;

    http://www.opm.gov/About_opm/Executi...icHRPolicy.asp

    http://www.classmates.com/directory/...gId=8698156615

    http://www.nescacademy.org/catalog/f...spx?instr_id=3

    It seems its not so uncommon surname in west, but certainly not in India.

    RK^2
    There are many paths leading to God, politics is certainly not one of them...

  14. #194

    Charak

    Another famous Indian name is that of Charak, the father of Indian medicine. There are still few people in India who add Charak as their surname (http://www.howisyourdaytoday.com/profiles/KSCharak.htm). Interestingly I found quite a few persons outside india with Charak as their surname;

    1. http://www.streetinsider.com/Managem...O/3465879.html

    2. http://www.rounderstudio.com/

    3. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2409008/bio

    RK^2
    There are many paths leading to God, politics is certainly not one of them...

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by sktewatia View Post
    leave my institute that is on the world map due to me only. my biography appears with noble prize winners. i figure among top few scientists of the 20th centiry. n 2000 outstanding people of the world. u can find my pprs by searching google "tewatia on consolidation" n "tewatia in geotechnical engineering".
    n by the way this tewatia is not seudo surname but one of the most prominent ones. google search for "teuton", "teoti-huaccan", "ecbatana" n "teutonic" will tell u that it was more widely spread than aryans. plz try my links that i've earlier suggested in my earlier threads n talks. chaudhary charan singh the ex prime minister of india. was originally from my village, and many more i can name.


    however, i'd like to go thru ur theory or book first. even then my comments are:

    there is no doubt that indus civilization area is same as that of (recent)modern or medieval jats but same is true for aryan and later aryan civilization. PGW (painted grey ware) prove it.

    i dnt know about indus valley people but certainly fr aryans the movement is from west to east. ganges and yamuna are perhaps once or rarely mentioned in rigveda but other punjab rivers, particularly indus, are frequently mentioned.

    horse is conspicuous by its absence in indus valley while all other animals skeleton are found.


    indus valley people were too peaceful but jats are not so.

    however, denial that it did not belong to jats is equally hard.

    the same exports n imports since indus valley r continuing till today. good quality horses were never bred in india n till today india imports good quality horses. exports spices that time also n today also.

    i'll talk to u 2morrow today my dog died in an accident.

    jats were pasupatis

    dangars (pashu), daggers (khanzar), dangers (khatra), dagars (rasta), doggers (dog tamers), all variation of dagar jats.
    tewatia ji
    aryans ki movement west to east nahi , east to west thi. and there is no mention of rivers, kings, or geography in vedas. vedas are purely a book of science. it doesnt contain history or geography of any nation or place. the names that u r confusing with pujab rivers in vedas has a spiritual meaning. it doesnt correspond to physical rivers. vedon ko dekh kar hi baad main logon ne in rivers ka naam ye rakh diya jo ved main likha hai. na ki iska ulta.
    aadi srishti "trivishtap" (present day tibet) main hui thi, aur vahin se aryan pehle indian subcontinent main aur phir west ki taraf move hue. i l suggest u to read a book about aryan theory by Sh vidhyanand saraswati " aryaon ka aadi desh aur unki sabhyata" plz read this.

  16. #196
    why r v believing in the theory given by english that aryans migrated from west to east and expelled dravidians from this land. this was a false theory created by british to divide this country and to produce a feeling of "heen bhavna" amongst indians. british to vedic civilisation ko 1500 saal purana maanta hai. aur phir indus valley civilisation etc ki khichdi pakti hai. vedic civilisation to srishti ke aadi se hai.

    british ki civilisation 4000 yrs se purani nahi. iska kaaran hai ki har 20000 saal baad europe main ice age aa jaati hai. and nobody survives there. to unhe kuch pata nahi hai.

  17. #197
    Dear Rajender ji and others!

    Recently I was reading an old article regarding the origin of Maoris, the natives of New Zealand. Thus far, it is believed that the tribal Maoris migrated from other pacific islands almost 1000 years ago.A recent study by a young Anthropologist, with the help of DNA mapping/ testing has concluded that most likely the Maoris come from a remote hillside area in Taiwan.

    After reading the above mentioned article,I was wondering that, isn't possible to connect these missing links with the help of DNA study/ mapping ( I don't no if this is the right term) of the various groups scattered all around the world. I know , it wouldn't be an easy task but a beginning has to be made.


    Cheers!

  18. #198
    kharub knows a lot about dna studies..he stays at gurgaon..the narender one, the kharub!

  19. #199
    Benipal is common Jat gotra among Sikhs. Benipal was a famous ashur king. In all probability the Benipal gotra has its origin in the name of this great king.

    RK^2
    There are many paths leading to God, politics is certainly not one of them...

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by rkumar View Post
    Benipal is common Jat gotra among Sikhs. Benipal was a famous ashur king. In all probability the Benipal gotra has its origin in the name of this great king.

    RK^2
    vo, too nice...

    plz come a step further....assur banipal, the assyrian had his capital as ninenveh...99..ninety nine, the greatest binary number...in indian/arabian/european math system....

    as late as jats in sindh in 712 ad were well acquanted with these numerals...that mohmd bin quasim took these numerals from jats to arabia...n from there they spread to europe..

    all of the modern science over the world is based on these numerals...


    lekin dukh ye hai kalkhandeji, up wale, ki jat jo itne budhimaan the jinho ne apne numeral se arithmatic se itni kamyabi haasil kari, vo reservation ke phayde nuksan samajhne me bahut weak hai...jab ki is ke liye 4-5 class se jyada knowledge nahin chahiye...

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