To Crack civil services is not a joke.. why we people( Jats) are not performing well in Indian Civil services. However people from the one of the most poor state of India Contribute more than 60% of all civil services posts every year. What is the reason of our very poor performance and how to make it workable?
Be Honest , Be Kind, Respect All
Lack of proper [say quality] education and basic weakness in English [spoken and written]. Things are changing for good as we see more and more Jats aspiring to be part of the top bureaucratic echelon. Cheers !
"LIFE TEACHES EVERY ONE IN A NATURAL WAY.NO ONE CAN ESCAPE THIS REALITY"
Jat mind is not wired for services... Jats like only either self service or Danda services like Police and Army. Bihar might be poor economically because of misrule, but intellectually its a very rich state for 1000s of years. Watch out, Bihar is going to come up very fast in next 10-20 years..Originally Posted by dabas
RK^2
Rajendra ji, pardon me but i beg to disagree with you. It is not the IQ levels or intellect level? Jats are no less there. Even uneducated jats are very sharp and quick on the uptake. Biharis are almost 10% of the total population where as Jats are barely 2-3% and hence there strength has to be more. Secondly Biharis do majdoori and send their children to Mumbai/Pune and Delhi for higher education and our jats just don't bother about this bug called education. Thirdly in Bihar it is practiced by habit[to go to civil services] generations after generations and hence the precedence. Jats can beat Biharis in intellect and mental capabilities hands down.
"LIFE TEACHES EVERY ONE IN A NATURAL WAY.NO ONE CAN ESCAPE THIS REALITY"
100% agreed. Actually Jat parents would like to see their children get admitted in army, police, after finishing 12th and secondary study. As being a student I am often suggested by many people in my village.."Beta Faujri, Police Maie Bharti Hojya..Kesi Graduation Kare Hai..Key Padyo Hai Civil Maie ....Kyo Gharwalo Ke Paise Lagaba Lagrya Hai. Pehlana Ke Choraa Naie Dekh Bharti Hogo And Too Haal Tai Aise Hi Phira Hai.."
None in villages would like to encourage us (student) when we wish to do something different. But I am more than lucky that I have parents who always support me in my every decision. Money is also a matter in this side because nowadays higher study/ preparation for the competitions is really too much expensive.
“Lead me, follow me or get out of my way”
Where did I say in my post that Jats have low IQ or they are not sharp? You did not get my point when I said that Jats are not wired for services. I simply meant that Jats are not tuned to serve under others.. or taking orders from others.. Being in any service industry means taking orders... Have you seen Jats in running restaurants, hotels, Parchhon ki dukan etc successfully? Few Jats went in IAS and had troubles with their political or administrative bosses and could never make it to the top. So it’s not the IQ alone what matters in life. Let me put few cross-questions to you;
1. How come Jats can grow vegetables but cannot sell the same directly to consumers?
2. How come Jats can grow grain but cannot sell it in retail to consumers directly?
This will give you the answers to many questions. Its not the IQ what matters. There are many qualities, which make a person or community successful.
RK^2
When i talked about the inttelect and IQ it was in your reference to quoting of Bihari inttelect in your above post. I am also saying that reasons for jats not making to civil services is other than inttelect. Reasons are obvious.....Not getting quality education and proper guidance.
Now coming to your rejoinder of jat producing Vegetables/grains and not marketing it. Reasons are well known...jats hate doing baniyagiri by habit but today some of them are doing that too [may be they have woken up to the fact] And if given to do it they can do much better than anybody else. And if you are talking of Dandda, then it is the Civil services who use it most,as they run the country and if jats love doing that then Civil Services could have been the ideal choice for them. You have successfuly mixed things up here. MOTIVATE ENOUGH A DOG TO LAY EGGS INSTEAD OF A PUPPY AND IT WILL.
Last edited by devdahiya; December 10th, 2005 at 04:21 PM.
"LIFE TEACHES EVERY ONE IN A NATURAL WAY.NO ONE CAN ESCAPE THIS REALITY"
We can see a huge unemployment in the states of Haryana , Rajasthan and even UP. As we discussed that Jats like Danda Jobs like Police and Fauj. I am not agree to this. In police and Fauj one have to work strictly under control of Seniors. Even top most Police and Fauz officials work under Top Civil Sevants(IAS). So I think more independance and Danda is there in Top Civil Services.
The true fact is that most of we people cannot devote time in preparations honestly rather like to spend valued time in village gallis and nukkads. This is the time that we would have to change our mindset and do the best in whatever field we choose.
We people are even very poor in facing truth and accepting our weaknesses.
The question still stands unanswered ... How to make it workable?
Last edited by dabas; December 11th, 2005 at 12:48 PM.
Be Honest , Be Kind, Respect All
jats r doing gr8 too
hello to everyone....
its true tht the maximum selections in civils is of biharis.....but jats are not lagging behind either....every year the number of jats getting the final selection call is increasing....this year too there were atleast 5-7 jats in the top 100....out of which two were females...with one of the gurls getting 16 rank....which is all the more heartning...moreover if not civil services jats r doing gr8 in their respective state PCS exams....so we might have started late but catching up fast...
Arun bhai answer is not simple and straight but not immposible. what we can do is to first identify the potencial in our area of influence and then shortlist young people who we think can do it. There after we have to motivate them to study hard for the unique exam and clear it. Once people will start clearing in large number, a chain reaction will start and people will simply take that path to success.
"LIFE TEACHES EVERY ONE IN A NATURAL WAY.NO ONE CAN ESCAPE THIS REALITY"
Often we talk of poor education standards in our schools. This is what our primary school teachers have to say;
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/200...haryana.htm#11
I trust our teachers statement fully. This reminds me of the days of Nehru when Indian army was more used for road repairs and other non army works.
High time this nonsense is stopped and our teachers are used for teaching.
RK^2
I am pretty sure that under the standard battery of IQ tests, jats very like other strata of population will have a score much in comparison with other "castes". I do not think that intelligence is the problem.
I believe to do well in a competition, you have to be against so many other people who not only are atleast of your own intelligence, but also focussed and hard working. It is like an intellectual war, where along with intelligence, what counts is hard work, motivation and perseverance.
If there is a particular slab of population (e.g. if you define it by caste as in this case Jats) which is performing under par, it indicates to a condition like attitude towards these exams which leads to factors like motivation and hard work being under par relative to other slabs of populations which are performing well.
The upbringing environement of a child/ student, motivation not only from parents but also peers and general social circle around him/ her are very important. With lack of motivation, is lack of hard work. Definitely motivation will depend on factors within the same social circle. For e.g. a student say in Bihar might have a motivating factor of his chacha, bhai etc clearing the same exam, this will give him confidence and motivation to repeat a similar feat.
Some people argue about the "luck" or destiny factor, which no doubt is important. However it is more valid for individual cases, for a whole slab of population, it is not important, because it is balanced out....(e.g. no one can say that all jats do not do well because they are unlucky!!)
So with intelligence and luck factors ruled out, the clear writing on the wall is Hard Work!! Right motivation and right channelization of energy is the only way out.
I believe that more or less factors like schools, teachers in these schools etc are very important. However, arugably if students in Bihar can clear such exams easily, it shows that these factors, though improtant are not excluding. Individual effort and motivation is finally what pays off, not only in competition but in all spheres of life.
Just to emphasize this point, I have a very short example. While in my 4th yr in DCE in Delhi, I had many friends in IIT too. Due to involvement in many technical projects in IIT, I was constantly in IIT campus, sometimes for days at a stretch and thus made friends there very much like in DCE itself. Both these colleges are ranked among top ten in engineering with intelligent, motivated and focussed students. Now many people were preparing for GRE (MS or Phd abroad), many for CAT (for IIM's and other MBA institutes). The trend was more towards GRE in IIT and CAT in DCE. I know many people in DCE working very very hard with themotivation being mutual discussion and competition. This spirit was lacking in IIT towards CAT, though many people were giving the exam.
After the results were out, 74 people from DCE got calls from IIM's that year and 13 from IIT. It was remarkable. (TOI, Indianexpress etc. termed DCE to have the highest density of students with extremely high scores in CAT). 27 were from just Mechanical branch itself!! more than double than the whole IIT!!
What I wish to stress is that the IITians have both the intelligence and means to do well as the DCE'ites, however the difference was motivation. Similarly GRE was comparably better in IIT than DCE.
cheers,
~vivek
Last edited by viveksiwatch; December 11th, 2005 at 09:37 PM.
I came, I saw, I slept.
First thing is dearth of quality education mainly in our govt. schools. If any body have elementry education from govt. schools its nearly impossible to compete in civil services in todays scenario. Afterall if anybody clear IAS he is genius and uncomparable.
Second thing is prepartion environment in our universities. Perchance i visited all universities in haryana, but i could not find such atmosephere, only HAU hisar is hatching some IASs everyear, But MDU environment is far-far remote from these things. and one more thing that pinch me hard is in delhi alone two villages Jiya-sarai and Ber-sarai are Jats villages, most of the north indian IAS aspirants comes to these villages for preparation due to the environment there and you see in the final list there are so many who prepared in these two villages but the jats who give them rented rooms are only satisfied with rented money . so also lacking of proper motivation in proper direction .
Third thing in haryana specially, HCS seats are limited as compare to others states and these all seats are filled by the minister relatives, competetion test is only for formality. these types of things are sufficient to discourage our jats youths in this direction and they are abide to change his/her future in other field.
Dev Bhai has suggested the right solution, As Vivek has strongly supported about intelligence of young Jats . What is lacking is to ingnite for a propper chain reaction and attitude. Once the chain is started , we can find so many young chaps at top ranking civil posts. As Devender Bhai said Jats dominated Jia Sarai, Ber Sarai and Katwaria Sarai produces 100s of non Jat IAS and PCS officers why can't Jats
Last edited by dabas; December 12th, 2005 at 08:48 PM.
Be Honest , Be Kind, Respect All
Does that not adequately indicate that Jats dont have an attitude for Civil services. If they can see hundreds of ordinary people competing successfully, it should have led tto some ignition within the Sarais .
Even if one has to obey orders while being in Police and Army, thats different kind of a job. Most of it is not sitting in office and doing babugiri. Work is on the field - action oriented. Whereas, even when lower levl civil servants (magistrates etc) are called field officers, a big potrtion of their work is file pushing.
That no way means Jats cant change their attitude. Awakening is coming and urge to survive will compel us to change.
Hope the Jat civil servants will bring about a refreshing change to the prevalent atmosphere.
HI!
I completely agree. Jats simply do not have that mind set. I studied in Bihar during my most important school years, 10th and 12th and beleive me the way they study is very different from the way that I saw my cousins in haryana do. Jats, mostly, have yet to understand the importance of education and its high time too. With limiting agriculture lands its very important to diversify to other areas which require more of brain usage rather than muscle usage.
prachi
Prachi bebe bilkul theek baat kahi aapne. Education and only education is the key to real progress.
"LIFE TEACHES EVERY ONE IN A NATURAL WAY.NO ONE CAN ESCAPE THIS REALITY"
Hello Prachi and Dev Sir
I m not agree that Jats dont have mind set and they are not capable. I think days have gone when Jats dont have mindset and nowdays I reckon Jats have their mind very well set. Jat students know their goals abd they are doing very well in every field. But this is also true tht we dont have enough IAS and IPS jats and the reason for that is beyond my thinking. I dont know the exact reason for that but yes as Rajender jee said one reason can be that Jats dont want to do services. But even this point is not correct upto the mark. Lets see wht conclusion come out from this post.
Abhimanyu Phougat
Bhai Abhimanyu, where did i say that Jats are not capable ? They are very capable but their potential needs to be harnessed through proper education. If a few jat boys and girls are doing well, that should not be taken as a decider of progress. We have a very long way to go dear.
"LIFE TEACHES EVERY ONE IN A NATURAL WAY.NO ONE CAN ESCAPE THIS REALITY"
Hello everybody, My first post here. I think Jats are very capable and indeed very aggressive people. And I think we have everything available in Haryana from quality education to sound bringing-up. Only that we think we are modern but our thoughts are not modern. You don't have to be educted to be smart and viable thinker. You can be a professor or whatever but unless you change your attitude in life and towrds other people, that "long way to go" will remain long.:p
lrburdak (August 7th, 2016)
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Originally Posted by dabas