We need an aggressive Jat Leader in Rajasthan ?

[netrapalsingh]

Natrapal so what do you now. With such a track record how come you are not in congress and active. You are most welcome to write to me via the forum or directly to discuss political and social matters pertaining to our community.

Aarti jee, maine 1990 me kuch family problem ke karn jaipur chod diya tha
or pilani me service join kar lee. Leken Jaipur or Congress se mai abhee bhee juda hua hoo. mere bhoot se friends jo congress me hai unse
abhi bhi mere batchit hoti hai. aap bilkul theek soch rahee hai
agar jat CM kee baat hai Rajasthan ke liye to Maderna jee good
examle hai. Sumitra jee bhee hai liken wo bhee party badaltee rahtee hai.
mai aap kee ray se sahmat hoo.


netra.......

[netrapalsingh]

I Know about that incident, as my Granfather and Kumbha Ram Arya were fast friends and we had family terms with his family. They remain togather during freedom Struggle, fight against Rajput supermacy and after independence in Politics too. I know he was gem of a person.




I am not questioning anybody. I just wanted to mention a few famous jat leaders. No comparasions. You are right again Nathu Ram Mirdha was a nice person too.

Mr Vijay,
Kavitiye to aapkee achee thee hee ye jankar or bhee acha laga kee apke
Grandfather ne kinsan andolan me bhag liya aise ghar me paida hona hee
sobhagya kee bat hai. onke bare poora vivran dena kyo kee is bare mai
mai ek article likh raha hoo.

netra.....

[aarti]

Politics does not correspond to being Imandar or Chor
Politics does not correspond to being in limelight or being in Press/TV
Politics does correspond to one word in a democracy – VOTE
I hope I have answered your question. . . .

[aarti]

Well, i don't see any Jat leader who can make a difference in the Rajasthan politics but no doubt that Paras Ram Maderana stands tall above any other present jat leader.

Point taken, thank you.

[mukeshkumar007]

Leader like PRM, Sishram Ola, Subash Mahariya, Narayan Singh Choudhary, Ram Narayan Choudhary may be good as individually but as a Jat Leader none of them did justice with Jat community... this is a fact... what Sishram ola did for jhunjhunu inspite of being elected for consecutively three year. ? PRM ko uska putar prem aur ghatiya rajniti (as people of Laxmangarh constituency says about this) le dubi.
Sach to yehi hai ki at present koi bi leader aisa nahi hai jo rajasthan politics maie kuch active role nibha sake aur apni community ke liye kuch kar sake…
Would be better if they give chance to young leader instead of doing dakosala rajniti…

[aarti]

First and foremost, one cannot compare all these leaders; they are all different in their outlook, political stature and sphere of area.

Second, PRM never had ‘putra prem’. To best of my knowledge PRM’s son stood for election for the first time in 2004, in which PRM also did not go. As of ‘ghatiya rajniti’ I guess I will leave Netrapal ji to answer this.

Mukesh Kumar ji, but I would like to have your sincere opinion on who according to you will make potentially good ‘young leaders’ in Rajasthan

Actually it would be nice to here from others too who they find potential young leaders in Rajasthan.

[skarmveer]

Thanks Aarti ji

You have replied well, But I am not satisfied much because who are getting votes are not at good posts Like Mr PRM but by luck without getting any vote Mr Manmohan Singh is a PM and also without having any experieance of
politics Mrs Sonia Gandhi is head of Congress as well as UPA and may be the
next Prime Minister.

Please put sum light and obliged me.

Thanks and Regards
Karmveer Chahal

Politics does not correspond to being Imandar or Chor
Politics does not correspond to being in limelight or being in Press/TV
Politics does correspond to one word in a democracy – VOTE
I hope I have answered your question. . . .

[aarti]

Karamveer ji, You want me to write on Hypothetical situation . . . .

Lets talk about PRM and Ashok Ghelot. To cut it short, Ashok Gehlot became CM even though the INC swept the state, winning 153 of the 200 seats under PRM’s leadership in 1998. And Ashok Gehlot did simple three things;

• Suck up to the leadership and people around her.
• Take favors from Rajput leadership within congress, i.e. Arjun Singh and Late Scindia. A Rajput would any day favor a non Jat, no matter which side of political divide they stand.
• Last and the easiest for Ashok Gehlot, he divided the Jat leaders among themselves; i.e. Natwar Singh, RN Mirdha, Sisram Ola.

Now you can say PRM was not smart enough, he did not deserve it . ..

And I will say

• Same leadership & people are now sucking PRM for Jat votes
• Same Rajput leaders have no power source from Rajasthan as there is no INC in Rajasthan any more
• Last, but not the least, its elementary to understand who stands tallest among 4 Jat contenders for 1998 CM post in Rajasthan.

And let me remind all that this is not the first time that Jats have themselves not let a Jat CM in Rajasthan, it happened first in 1972, then in 1990 and then the famous debacle of 1998. But I guess the heaviest price Jat community will have to pay will be for 1998.

[vijay]

Mukesh bhai,

Main aapse sahmat nahin hoon. Ek IAS ka beta IAS banta hai to hum kahte hain normal baat hai, isi tarah fauji ka beta fauji or Police officer ka beta police mein jaata hai to saare kahte hain ki normal baat hai. Phir agar ek politician ka beta agar politics mein jaata hai to isme kya galat baat hai ?

I am not against any leader but if the people from a specific region are against a leader that doesn't mean that the person has/had committed a sin. It's todays politics and its all about strategies and conspirancies. If PRM Maderana helped his son than what is wrong in that. If any relative of yours fighting an election, what you will do ? You will support him or not ? He is a politician and just mind that he is a father too and have responsibilities as a father towards his son. I see no harm if PRM supported his son. From Nehru to Sonia and Charan Singh to Devi Lal who didn't did that.

About the young leaders :
It's rare chances that a new comer with a dymanic personality would be there to influence the politics of Rajasthan. As entering into today's politics is not easy these days as earlier. To get a ticket from a national level party everybody need resoures and power. So, just try to search in the jat leaders who have kids or relatives who have some potencial or any Rajasthan university Student Union Leaders or hope for any miracle. Sometimes miracles do happen.

At least i don't see any young jat leader who can influence the politics of rajasthan.

But let's hope for the best.

[aarti]

I must admit, for the first time I have to agree with you fully.

As a suggestion, with the kind of lineage you mentioned on this forum you have, and on a sincere note, why don’t you look at politics as a serious vocation?

[vijay]

I must admit, for the first time I have to agree with you fully.

As a suggestion, with the kind of lineage you mentioned on this forum you have, and on a sincere note, why don’t you look at politics as a serious vocation?

Thanks a lot for that !

I don't like todays politics as a person i can't do that becoz i am too sensitive and get things on heart easily. But, as a practical and logical person i accept everything about today's politics and know that what is acceptable now.

But personally i think that i am too idealistic and not fit for today's politics.

[netrapalsingh]

Karamveer ji, You want me to write on Hypothetical situation . . . .

Lets talk about PRM and Ashok Ghelot. To cut it short, Ashok Gehlot became CM even though the INC swept the state, winning 153 of the 200 seats under PRM’s leadership in 1998. And Ashok Gehlot did simple three things;

• Suck up to the leadership and people around her.
• Take favors from Rajput leadership within congress, i.e. Arjun Singh and Late Scindia. A Rajput would any day favor a non Jat, no matter which side of political divide they stand.
• Last and the easiest for Ashok Gehlot, he divided the Jat leaders among themselves; i.e. Natwar Singh, RN Mirdha, Sisram Ola.

Now you can say PRM was not smart enough, he did not deserve it . ..

And I will say

• Same leadership & people are now sucking PRM for Jat votes
• Same Rajput leaders have no power source from Rajasthan as there is no INC in Rajasthan any more
• Last, but not the least, its elementary to understand who stands tallest among 4 Jat contenders for 1998 CM post in Rajasthan.

And let me remind all that this is not the first time that Jats have themselves not let a Jat CM in Rajasthan, it happened first in 1972, then in 1990 and then the famous debacle of 1998. But I guess the heaviest price Jat community will have to pay will be for 1998.

namaste aartee jee,

ab tak mai aap se poori tarah sahmat tha par yaha aap shayad kuch galat
hai ye indira gandhi ke samay kee rajneetee hai kee rajasthan me jat CM
nahi banna chahiya jaha tak jhunjhunu district me sheeshram ola jee ka
sawal yaha chunav sada jat banam other cast ke beech hota hai jiska
fayada sheeshram ola jee uthate hai. Mukesh ne sahee kaha hai putra pream. Unka ladka sada jhunjhunu se MLA ke liye congress ek ticket
par ladta hai. Jaha ta uskee yogyta ka sawal hai uskee yogyta se to
kudh Sheeshram Jee bhe sharminda hai.

Congress ke paas Balaram Jakhar jaise neta the Kya we CM ke layak nahi the ya hai nahi. Natwar singh ko to inhone baraf me laga diya.
Ashok Gahlot kahi se CM ke layak aadmee nahi the ye wo leader hai
jab indira gandhi ke samay me ye matri the or inko ek viman yatra
me airhostes se badsaluke ke karan mantri pad se hataya gaya tha.

Rajput leader ek bhee congress me sahi posion me ho to batao
rajasthan me gulab singh saktawat the grahmatri ghalot sarkar me.
center me arjun singh kee kya takat hai ye bhee aap jantee hai.



.............................
netra........

[aarti]

I also said what you are saying,

Mukesh specifically mentioned 'putra prem' for PRM, my answer was for that, not for anybody else.

Balram Jakher is not from Rajasthan, he was never part of Rajasthan Jat CM race, so far atleast.

When I mentioned Rajput leaders, I meant Rajput leaders of Congress based in AICC, very specifically Sh. Scindia and Sh. Arjun Singh, who did on record oppose PRM in Oct of 1998 for Rajasthan CM post.

[aarti]

There is an article in TOI-Ndelhi today “Natwar's revenge: Will campaign against Congress” which basically reads that Natwar Singh ji would campaign extensively in Uttar Pradesh and Uttaranchal against the INC, which he has already started doing in Rajasthan.

The article also reads; There are indications that he is weighing the option of floating his own political outfit to gain some space in Rajasthan with pockets of influence in adjoining UP areas

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2019031.cms

My question is what shall be ramifications of Natwar Singh’s mood swing on Congress and Jats in Rajasthan. How much impact will Jagat Singh and Natwar Singh have on Rajasthan Politics and how can it be countered ?

[bahadur1]

Aarti Ji, I do not think the campain would be fruitful without the assistance of Maharaja Vishwendra Singh. If he (K. Natwar SIngh) does this tie up with the Maharaja it may be possible.

[vijay]

There is an article in TOI-Ndelhi today “Natwar's revenge: Will campaign against Congress” which basically reads that Natwar Singh ji would campaign extensively in Uttar Pradesh and Uttaranchal against the INC, which he has already started doing in Rajasthan.

The article also reads; There are indications that he is weighing the option of floating his own political outfit to gain some space in Rajasthan with pockets of influence in adjoining UP areas

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2019031.cms

My question is what shall be ramifications of Natwar Singh’s mood swing on Congress and Jats in Rajasthan. How much impact will Jagat Singh and Natwar Singh have on Rajasthan Politics and how can it be countered ?

Well, i don't think that Natwar Singh and Jagat Singh can infulence the politics even in Rajasthan forget about UP and Uttranchal.

The problem with congress leaders is that they don't have any personal influence outside their home constituencies. Whatever they do in national politics is just due to the fact that Congress in a national level party and they get chances to known as national level leaders. If they thrown out of the party they are nill in politics.

Natwar Singh and Jagat Singh can influence the people of their home constituency or maybe 1-2 surrounding constituencies a little bit and can't do anything beyond that.

[narenderkharb]

Arti ji

I wanted to know two things about jat poltics in Rajasthan.

Was there any meeting of all jat leaders at Natwar's residence for jat cm when gehlot was CM ,it was in papers next morning but denied by Natwar Singh.

And it was often rumoured that Bhairon Singh has influenced PRM during his CM's and PRM's leader of oppostion tenure and reason cited was his son only.

I do think that as far honesty and stature goes no one can compete with PRM.

It was a news to me that politics in rajasthan too centres on jatv/s others as in haryana and punjab and not on rajput v/s others.

Is there no other group that sides with jat in elections as sikh generally go with jats in haryana.

[vijay]

Arti ji

I wanted to know two things about jat poltics in Rajasthan.

Was there any meeting of all jat leaders at Natwar's residence for jat cm when gehlot was CM ,it was in papers next morning but denied by Natwar Singh.

Yes. there was a meeting for Jat CM, but when Natwar Singh got the madam came to know about that meeting and she is not happy then he denied that in press.

And it was often rumoured that Bhairon Singh has influenced PRM during his CM's and PRM's leader of oppostion tenure and reason cited was his son only.

Bhairon Singh is a gud politician and he knows how to get benefit from others. Everybody have some drawbacks and people recognise that and take benefits from that. Nothing extraordinary !

I do think that as far honesty and stature goes no one can compete with PRM.

Yes, if you are talking about todays politics he is the best. But if you said that in context of all time jat leaders of Rajasthan, he is nowhere.

It was a news to me that politics in rajasthan too centres on jatv/s others as in haryana and punjab and not on rajput v/s others.

Jat votes influence the politics of Rajasthan. just check these links

http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1625/16250430.htm
http://www.rediff.com/election/1999/sep/11rajas.htm
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2003/11/25/stories/2003112500300900.htm
http://www.hvk.org/articles/0503/144.html


Narender Bhai, my this post is just a trailer about Rajasthan Politics.

Will post later in detail with all the facts

[aarti]

I am afraid, I am unable to understand your questions clearly, I will try and answer them to what I best understand of them, though I would be more then happy to discuss on this topic;


YES, grouping to Jat Congress leaders took place twice between 1998 and 2004,

First was within few months of the then government formation and the party (fun) was spoiled as Sisram ji Ola came to Jaipur and gave a statement in favor of Ashok Gehlot.

Second and the most important one took place post the December 2000 Congress rally in Jaipur wherein Sonia Gandhi addressed elected representatives to panchayats and municipalities from Rajasthan. In this rally apparently many a Jat representative from rural Rajasthan gave Sonia Gandhi their piece of mind for not giving Rajasthan its first Jat Chief Minister.

In this meeting Natwar Singh was present, where in he saw real time opportunity and invited Jat leaders of Congress to Delhi for his support. Fathoming that this will not work out, he later denied any such call.


PRM getting influenced by Bhairon Singh Shekhawat, as you mentioned is a rumor, let it be that.

There is a rumor I have also heard of the time when Bhairon Singh Shekhawat was in his second term (coalition government) and went to US for Heart Surgery. There were complications had he has to stay in US for a longer duration. Bhairon Singh Shekhawat’s own son-in-law Narpat Singh Rajvi (then MLA and now minister in Raje Government) wanted to defect and form a government along with Congress. With Channa Reddy as Governor in Jaipur. Feelers were sent, after much ado PRM presumed to have told Narpat Singh Rajvi that if you guys have guts come to me once Bhairon Singh Shekhawat is back in India and I will support you for CM instead of taking your support. He refused to fight cheap political battles with an army who’s general was lying in intensive care in some US Hospital.

I am not sure if I am allowed to send scan documents on this forum, there is a news article with reference to what I mentioned above somewhere in JNU news- item archives written in middle of 2004.


AS of honesty and more then that stature (of any public figure), we must leave it to history to answer.


Rajasthan has a feudal setup. The struggle is predominately between Rajput & Jat community. Both communities are further supported by smaller communities. Historically Jats have been supported in both social and political setup my minorities and present say SC/ST. But this was pre 1998, one fine day it all changed, rest is history.

[vijay]

There is a rumor I have also heard of the time when Bhairon Singh Shekhawat was in his second term (coalition government) and went to US for Heart Surgery. There were complications had he has to stay in US for a longer duration. Bhairon Singh Shekhawat’s own son-in-law Narpat Singh Rajvi (then MLA and now minister in Raje Government) wanted to defect and form a government along with Congress. With Channa Reddy as Governor in Jaipur. Feelers were sent, after much ado PRM presumed to have told Narpat Singh Rajvi that if you guys have guts come to me once Bhairon Singh Shekhawat is back in India and I will support you for CM instead of taking your support. He refused to fight cheap political battles with an army who’s general was lying in intensive care in some US Hospital.

Yes, It's true that Narpat Singh Rajvi just wanted to took advantage of Bhairon Singh's sataus and charishma there but that didn't happened whatever may be the cause.

I agree with you too Aarti Ji,

But in battlefield situation is differrent. If your opponenet is doing some mischieves you are not bound to be an idealistic. And in todays politics everything is fair as long as it's not going to hurt you personally.

Peresonally i hate this but this is the today's politics and we have to accept that by any means.

Rajasthan has a feudal setup. The struggle is predominately between Rajput & Jat community. Both communities are further supported by smaller communities. Historically Jats have been supported in both social and political setup my minorities and present say SC/ST. But this was pre 1998, one fine day it all changed, rest is history

I think i had provided sufficient links in support of this.