Roots of Jats in the World

[sktewatia]

My mother is not in touch with that now for a long time. She was the first person to move Delhi High court and pleaded that actual history should be taught and not the distorted and chosen one. History may be bad or good. If at all its bad then we can take lessons rather than manipulating it. If its good then also we can be more confident to do still better.

For true history of Jats you can not force the government politically to include it as other groups are stronger than you. That debate on Indian and Jat history was good opportunity to take order from court for just and right cause.

Leftists and Safforn people were both deadly united and prepared. We Jats could not unite and understand this opportunity that time. History of Jats in Indian history books is taught from Surajmal or little earlier. Nowhere it is mentioned that Jats faught with Ghazni; Who was Porus? Ranjit singh is never written that he was Jat. But every where with other castes it is openly written That ruler or person was rajput, brahmin, etc. I've mentioned in my posts about Raja Nahar Singh also.

Jats suffer on following accounts:

Jat history itself was either not recorded deliberately at the time of historical incidents. Or even when incedent became quite prominent then they were dubbed as Sudra rulers. Puranas call Nandas as the beginners of the Rule of Sudra age. The Mandas ,Maurya (mores),the pauras (pores), Kang Variks, The Balhraj , Dharanas were all from this Jat federation . When Purans say that there were seven Ahirs ,ten Gardhabas(Khars)sixteen Sakas (Kangs), fourteen Thsharas(Tusirs),thirteen Mundas, eleven Maunas (Maan) and eleven Puras (pors) all ruling India for about 13000 years. They merely mentioning the various Jats Clans . Something must have happened in 6th and 7th Century AD during the course of the revival of the orthodox Brahmanism which made these people persona non Grata with new orthodoxy.

2. Even when something becomes quite prominent and evident even today like in case of Raja Nahar Singh, he is ignored.


Any way, if those remarks are not yet deleted the court case can be filed not only to delete them but to start Jat history from ancient time. A community that too like Jats (by writing of whose exploits Herodotus became father of history) in such a wide and the most prime area in Indo-Gangetic plain can not be assumed to have history of just a few hundred years.

It was a major news that time:
HC notices to CBSE, NCERT on deletions
Our Correspondent

New Delhi, February 5
The Delhi High Court has issued notices to the NCERT and the CBSE ..... deletion of controversial references to certain religions.... These deletions were made from the history text ..... The Court took cognisance of a petition filed by a retired schoolteacher, Mrs. Krishna Devi, ....,Even the President of India has shown his concern over the doctoring of History. He wrote a letter to the World History Congress held recently expressing his concern”, pointed out Mr. Ashok Aggarwal, the counsel for the petitioner.

[sktewatia]

Well Soka Norman, you can have a look at that.

[sktewatia]

Given below is the recent research paper from the famous journal. It shows similarity of genes only but our views about origin and migrations may be different.



http://www.genome.org/adsystem/graph...45&adview=true http://www.genome.org/adsystem/graph...15&adview=true


Published online before print May 8, 2001, 10.1101/gr.GR-1733RR

Genetic Evidence on the Origins of Indian Caste Populations

Michael Bamshad,1,10,12 Toomas Kivisild,2 W. Scott Watkins,3 Mary ........ A. Batzer,9,11 and Lynn B. Jorde3

1 Department of Pediatrics, University of Utah, Salt Lake City, Utah 84112, USA; ............ate University Health Science Center, New Orleans, Louisiana 70112, USA


The origins and affinities of the ~1 billion people living on the subcontinent of India have long been contested. This is owing, in part, to the many different waves of immigrants that have influenced the genetic structure of India. In the most recent of these waves, Indo-European-speaking people from West Eurasia entered India from the Northwest and diffused throughout the subcontinent. They purportedly admixed with or displaced indigenous Dravidic-speaking populations. Subsequently they may have established the Hindu caste system and placed themselves primarily in castes of higher rank. To explore the impact of West Eurasians on contemporary Indian caste populations, we compared mtDNA (400 bp of hypervariable region 1 and 14 restriction site polymorphisms) and Y-chromosome (20 biallelic polymorphisms and 5 short tandem repeats) variation in ~265 males from eight castes of different rank to ~750 Africans, Asians, Europeans, and other Indians. For maternally inherited mtDNA, each caste is most similar to Asians. However, 20%-30% of Indian mtDNA haplotypes belong to West Eurasian haplogroups, and the frequency of these haplotypes is proportional to caste rank, the highest frequency of West Eurasian haplotypes being found in the upper castes. In contrast, for paternally inherited Y-chromosome variation each caste is more similar to Europeans than to Asians. Moreover, the affinity to Europeans is proportionate to caste rank, the upper castes being most similar to Europeans, particularly East Europeans. These findings are consistent with greater West Eurasian male admixture with castes of higher rank. Nevertheless, the mitochondrial genome and the Y chromosome each represents only a single haploid locus and is more susceptible to large stochastic variation, bottlenecks, and selective sweeps. Thus, to increase the power of our analysis, we assayed 40 independent, biparentally inherited autosomal loci (1 LINE-1 and 39 Alu elements) in all of the caste and continental populations (~600 individuals). Analysis of these data demonstrated that the upper castes have a higher affinity to Europeans than to Asians, and the upper castes are significantly more similar to Europeans than are the lower castes. Collectively, all five datasets show a trend toward upper castes being more similar to Europeans, whereas lower castes are more similar to Asians. We conclude that Indian castes are most likely to be of proto-Asian origin with West Eurasian admixture resulting in rank-related and sex-specific differences in the genetic affinities of castes to Asians and Europeans.

[narenderkharb]

This was the earliest paper regarding genetics after this a series of papers have appeared and the papers of vijyendr kshayapa and Sangmitra are the latest ones in late 2005,there are some genetic finding by Safroja also which I have not gone in to.

Can you tranfer my three latest posts about our connection to Indus valley on jat history yahoo group, I don't know how to transfer data.There we can get critical appraisal by others also.

[sampuran]

Period of Indus valley civilization is older than above mentioned period,it is becoming more and more evident as new sites are being excavated.
Some articles found at dawarka are dating back to 6000BC

How marine archaeologists found Dwaraka

V GANGADHARAN
Chennai, Feb 1:

The submergence into the sea of the city of Dwaraka, vividly picturised in the great epic of Mahabaratha, is indeed true! A chance discovery made by a team of scientists, in the Gulf of Cambay region, establishes that the Mahabaratha story is not a myth. The rich city with fertile landscape and great rivers had indeed submerged into the seas several thousand years ago.

But before we get to the present, a bit of history is quite in order.

There is a vivid description in the Mausalaparvan of the Mahabaratha about the submergence of Dwaraka. The people of Dwaraka including Arjuna seemed to have witnessed strange things before its submergence in the sea. 'The event was preceded by the unabated rumbling noise of the earth throughout the day and night, birds screamed continuously, and heavy winds swept the land. The sea, which has been beating against the shores, suddenly broke the boundary that was imposed on it by nature. Huge tide with great height surrounded Dwaraka. The sea rushed into the city submerging beautiful buildings. The sea covered up everything and in a matter of few moments, there was no trace of the beautiful city.' It was something of an ancient tsunami.

And now the scientists at NIOT (National Institute of Ocean Technology, of the Department of Ocean Development) have established this. While working for British gas in the Gulf of Cambay region, a few years ago, the scientists of the NIOT, were stunned to see images of objects and things, completely alien to the marine domain. Immediately a team swung into action and samples were collected and sent for analysis and dating (it is usually done to scientifically establish the antiquity of the excavated objects).

Samples collected include artefacts, wood pieces, pottery materials, hearth pieces, animal bones. They ere sent to Manipur University, Oxford University, London, Institute of Earth Sciences, Hanover, Germany for analysis and dating. The results were astonishing. It was found beyond doubt that the samples belonged to a period varying from 7800 to 3000 years (BP) Before Present !

The even more flooring discovery happened soon. NIOT, which carried outside scan and sub-bottom surveys in the year 2002-03, established beyond doubt the presence of two large palaeochannels (river channels which existed once and later submerged under the sea) in the Gulf of Cambay. Alluvium samples were collected from different locations in the areas of the palaeochannels by the gravity core and grab method.

Badrinarayanan, Marine Archaeologist and formerly coordinator for the project, says 'the most astonishing thing was that all of the crew-members, including the ship master who was a catholic, had dreams full of strange visions, on the night of discovery. We felt we had stumbled upon something great and unusual.'

The study of the samples under microscope revealed the occurrence of fragile and highly sensitive Ostracods (tiny marine and fresh water crustaceans with a shrimp-like body enclosed in a bivalve shell) overlain by regular marine fauna.

These results strongly indicated that the freshwater deposition which took place in this area was very much a part of the onshore land region and later submerged to the depths varying from 20 to 40 meters. The alluvium (fresh water sand) samples sent to the Earth Science Department, Manipur University for OSL (optically stimulated luminescence) dating gave the OSL determinant of 3000 years (BP) Before Present !

Prof.Gartia (The Journal of Indian Ocean Archaeology, No.2 of 2005, Pg.144) after conducting extensive investigations concluded that Gujarat region had experienced at least three large killer earthquakes about 1500, 3000 and 5000 years BP respectively. Geomorphological evidences also show beyond doubt that the North-Western part of the Indian landmass was seismically active during the last 10,000 years. These killer quakes are likely to have caused the shifting of the rivers and sea level fluctuation including the sinking of the legendary city of Dwaraka, capital of the Lord-King Krishna. The discovery about the availability of fresh water from the now submerged major rivers along with other marine-archaeological evidences, corroborates the Mahabaratha reference that Dwaraka, the ancient city of Sri Krishna, lies under the great ocean !

http://newstodaynet.com/01feb/ss1.htm

[sktewatia]

Kharab ji, will you please post those links or that matter or tell us what is written there. Let me know which posts you wanted to bring on net, I'll do it. Or you can urself also do by simply copy from the post and paste on Jat land.

[sktewatia]

November 24th, 2005, 08:49 PM #63 Rajendra Kumar Kalkhande vbmenu_register("postmenu_65652", true);
Active Member

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 2,277


To find more about Jats and their history, it might be worth reading the history of Elam empire. Jats dominated the enite west Asia all along. Even today there is a town called Jatt ( Jat) in present day Israel;

http://www.fallingrain.com/world/IS/3/Jatt.html

Dahias and Tomars in Israel and then this Jatt town, all can not be linguistic coincidence. Post Mahabharat, Lots of Jats moved over to west Asia and established empires. Elmites opposed Judism, Christianity and Islam all. There are references in Bible and the Holi scriptures of Jews against Elamites. Elmites had names like Abiramu, Nasir pal and Bani Pal which are very much like our present day names. After the fall of Elam empire, many of these jats moved over to Eastern Europe. They followed the routes adjoining sea and then moved towards deeper lands.

Rajendra

However, more to add Elam is a village also of Jats in western UP. Compare other Jat village names also like this; viz. Batana (Ec-Batana), Bagha, Susana, Sisauli, Kharkhoda, etc..

[sktewatia]

old jat area was from ganges to the west of caspian sea

v take jambudwipa 2 b identical with india n search fr the solutions. The puranas explicitly say that bharat varsha is a part, of jambudwipa.

v hear dakshita kurus (southern kurus) in haryana area. n uttara kurus (northern kurus) in the north of meru parvata (pamirr moutains). The madras (modern punjab) n there r uttara madra (northern madra) people. the pakhtoons/pashtoons are in kabul/kandhar area right since the period of rigveda; n yet the Assyrian king Sargon-1 was fighting the "Uttara-pashtoon" in their city of Purushkhanda in Cappadocia in third millenium BC. We have a river called kuru(sh) or kur in the west of Caspian sea, and an area called Kourupedion (the land of Kurus) in the west of present Iraq, ?exactly like Kurukshetra (the land of Kurus) in india.

All these facts, along with some other facts n notices, pin-point the fact that the lands of Uttara Kurus, Uttara Madras, Uttara Pashtoons were in the region of Caspian n Black seas.

In fact jats were at the centre those times in this land from uttara kurus to dakshina kurus. like they r 2day from indus in the west 2 ganges n chambal in the east.


Its not that these people moved from India after Mahabharat; but in fact they were very much part of Mahabharat, Jats, Aryan and Indus valley civilization? I've this doubt though not very clear. Mahabharat is like "Greater Bharat", like greater NOIDA today. The greater Jatland, original Jatland, the real Jatland. Migrations kept continued from here n there even till today. Greatest Bharat is yet 2b thought about?

I still recall your logic of "Indo-European n not Euro-Indian like modern English speaking babus". Indian Jats usually occupied the first place among them like Indra. They do it till today.

[sktewatia]

hi Vinod
but i've reasons to believe that it may be true also that vikram (Chandra) ruled arabia. His inscription on Iron pillar is too impressive. I'll get you that and its translation also. Its nearby where I live. But about 25 years back I myself read it and wondered that time by its language. Plz see my comments (post) of modern calender also on my thread "Roots of Jats in the World". Dr. KP Jaiswal was a very famous (non-Jat) indian historian who proved that Guptas were Jats from Punjab. Dahiya BS, however identifies them with Dharan Jats of Muttra (Mathura). Allahabad pillar inscription of Samudra Gupta mentions many of Jat clans, like Kharab, Brar (original punjabi's Prar), Jun.. etc.

Most of european alphabets n numbers including the arabic numerals also are basically Indians, including Alzebra, Geometry.....
regards
sudhir k tewatia

Vinod Sangwan <sangwan.vinod@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I have diffculty in believing all of this... proofs are too flimsy... First of all, it doesn't prove that Vikarmaditya was Jat... I am not sure if term Jat existed at that time anyway... secondly, if he ruled over Arbia, I am sure there must have been other proofs... inscripted dish might have been brought from some other place... BTW the website has many wrong dates about lots of historical events... e.g. date of Gautam Buddha, Chandergupta maurya.... source is unreliable... some pro-hindu sites take things to other extreme and loose the credibility of whole debate, including some saner thinkers...

http://www.thevedicfoundation.org/bhartiya_history/chronology.htm

-vinod

On 1/9/06, Laxman Burdak <lr_burdak@yahoo.com > wrote:

Glancing through some research material recently, I was pleasantly
surprised to come across a reference to a king Vikramaditya
inscription found in the Kaaba in Mecca proving beyond doubt that the
Arabian Peninsula formed a part of his Indian Empire.

The text of the crucial Vikramaditya inscription, found inscribed on
a gold dish hung inside the Kaaba shrine in Mecca, is found recorded
on page 315 of a volume known as `Sayar-ul-Okul' treasured in the
Makhtab-e-Sultania library in Istanbul, Turkey. Rendered in free
English the inscription says:

"Fortunate are those who were born (and lived) during king Vikram's
reign. He was a noble, generous dutiful ruler, devoted to the welfare
of his subjects. But at that time we Arabs, oblivious of God, were
lost in sensual pleasures. Plotting and torture were rampant. The
darkness of ignorance had enveloped our country. Like the lamb
struggling for her life in the cruel paws of a wolf we Arabs were
caught up in ignorance. The entire country was enveloped in a
darkness so intense as on a new moon night. But the present dawn and
pleasant sunshine of education is the result of the favour of the
noble king Vikramaditya whose benevolent supervision did not lose
sight of us- foreigners as we were. He spread his sacred religion
amongst us and sent scholars whose brilliance shone like that of the
sun from his country to ours. These scholars and preceptors through
whose benevolence we were once again made cognisant of the presence
of God, introduced to His sacred existence and put on the road of
Truth, had come to our country to preach their religion and impart
education at king Vikramaditya's behest."

For those who would like to read the Arabic wording I reproduce it
hereunder in Roman script:

"Itrashaphai Santu Ibikramatul Phahalameen Karimun Yartapheeha
Wayosassaru Bihillahaya Samaini Ela Motakabberen Sihillaha Yuhee Quid
min howa Yapakhara phajjal asari nahone osirom bayjayhalem. Yundan
blabin Kajan blnaya khtoryaha sadunya kanateph netephi bejehalin
Atadari bilamasa- rateen phakef tasabuhu kaunnieja majekaralhada
walador. As hmiman burukankad toluho watastaru hihila Yakajibaymana
balay kulk amarena phaneya jaunabilamary Bikramatum".

(Page 315 Sayar-ul-okul).

[Note: The title `Saya-ul-okul' signifies memorable words.]


King Vikramaditya has been permanently enshrined in the pages of
history because he was the world's greatest ruler having the largest
empire. It should be remembered that only a monarch with a vast
empire gets famous in world history. Vikram Samvat (calendar still
widely in use in India today) which he initiated over 2000 years ago
may well mark his victory over Arabia.

It is mentioned in the Abadis i.e., the authentic traditions of
Prophet Mohammad compiled by Imam Bukhari that the Indian tribe of
Jats had settled in Arabia before Prophet Mohammad's times. Once when
Hazrat Ayesha, wife of the Prophet, was taken ill, her nephew sent
for a Jat physician for her treatment. This proves that Indian Jats
enjoyed a high and esteemed status in Arabia. Such a status could not
be theirs unless they were the rulers. Bukhari also tells us that an
Indian Raja (king) sent a jar of ginger pickles to the Prophet. This
shows that the Indian Jat Raja ruled an adjacent area so as to be in
a position to send such an insignificant present as ginger pickles.
The Prophet is said to have so highly relished it as to have told his
colleagues also to partake of it. These references show that even
during Prophet Mohammad's times Indians retained their influential
role in Arabia, which was a dwindling legacy from Vikramaditya's
times.
A careful analysis of the above inscription enables us to draw the
following conclusions:

That the ancient Indian empires may have extended up to the eastern
boundaries of Arabia until Vikramaditya and that it was he who for
the first time conquered Arabia. Because the inscription says that
king Vikram who dispelled the darkness of ignorance from Arabia. It
is clear that Vikramaditya was a Jat king. His capital was at Ujjain
which is part of Malwa.

Reference

http://www.hinduism.org.za

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[narenderkharb]

Tewatia ji
plz post portion of extracts from KP Jaiswal and BS Dahiya about guptas.Most of the members are unaware of these valuable sources.

Your post abot numeral and and calender is really excellent.I have read that though foreginers may say these numerals as arabic these arabic calls them hindavi,It shows its origin from indian lands and a deep interactions between indian and arabic lands.Trade between Indus valley civilization and oman has very well been proved.

[sktewatia]

Thanks Kharab ji I'll certainly post them shortly. And also I'll go to this Iron Pillar also and bring you original photo of inscription and its translation. Mehraulli (where this IRon pillar is situated) is still a village of jats very old perhaps more than 2000 years.

Perhaps grammarien's name was Chandragomin. He wrote "Ajey Jat..." means "Invincible Jats defeated Hunas". The iron pillar at Mehraulli describes that King as "Chandra" and gupta is not written there. Historians invariably identify this "Chandra" with Chandra Gupta Vikramaditya-2. I do remember when I first saw this language that time I was a student in IIT Delhi. I'm sure it was written over there "He, who crossed the seven mouths of sea and defeated Valhikas in their own land together with all of their alliances who came united with them....The fame of that king Chandra.....". Now here what does seven mouths of sea stand for? Certainly its about the conquerring of some very far far land. Even otherwise also, this land was not unknown and many people used to go and come from there. Even Guru Nanak visited arabia. When Arabians can conquer India why not Indians can also conquer Arabia.

I was also surprised to note that some plaster was falling from the nearby temple like building stone pillars and from inside that Jain and Hindu idols were visible. One guide was telling the foregners over there that It was originally a Hindu/Jain temple which the muslim rulers tried to convert into the muslim one by certain modifications.

[sktewatia]

Muslim Period began just almost after the fall of Gupta Empire

THE JATS OF SIND

Before commencing a review of the Muslim period of Sind's history, we shall speak briefly of the Jats of Sind (Pakistan) who were known all over Iran and the Middle East for their sturdy constitution and industrious nature. They have a colourful history and an adventurous past.

The author of Mujmaul Tawarikh has quoted an extinct Sanskrit work according to which the original inhabitants of Sind were Jats and Meds. Early Arab writers on Sind also say that Jats and Meds were important tribes in their time. Ibn Khurdabah mentions 'zutts' as guarding the route between Kirman and Mansura while Ibn Haukal writes: "Between Mansura and Makran the waters from the Mehran form lakes and the inhabitants of the country are the south Asian races called Zutt. The Chinese traveller Yuan Chwang who visited this region in the 7th century A.D. also mentioned Jats.

"The Jats claim to be included in the 36 royal Rajput tribes. Some of them state that their forefathers came from Ghazni. But it is generally accepted that they are the descendants of the ancient Getae, or Jeutchi, from Scythia. Some authorities consider that they entered the sub-continent some time in 1500 BC and are the same as the Jattikas mentioned in the Mahabharata, and also identical with the Jatti of Pliny and Ptolemy. Their original home was on the Oxus."10 According to the Encyclopaedia of Islam, the Jats of the lower Indus comprise both Jats and Rajputs, and the same rule applies to Las-Bela where descendants of former ruling races like the Sumra and the Samma of Sind and the Langah of Multan are found. At the time of the first appearance of the Arabs they found the whole of Makran in possession of Jats (Zutts).

According to a 'Hadis', Hazrat Abdulla Bin Masood, a companion Prophet saw some strangers with the Prophet and said that their features and physique were like those of Jats.11 This means that Jats we in Arabia even during the Prophet's time. Hazrat Imam Bukhari (d. 875 A.D. - 256 A.H.) writing about the period of the Companions in his book "Al adab al Mufarrad" has stated that once when Hazrat Aisha (Prophet's wife) fell ill, her nephews brought a Jat doctor for her treatment. We hear of them next when the Arab armies clashed with the Persian forces which comprised of Jat soldiers as well. The Persian Command Hurmuz used Jat soldiers against Khalid Bin Walid in the battle of 'salasal' of 634 A.D. (12 hijri). This vvas the first time that Jats were captured by the Arabs. They put forward certain conditions for joining the Arab armies which were accepted, and on embracing Islam they were associated with different Arab tribes.12 This event proves that the first group of Pakistanis to accept Islam were Jats who did it as early as 12 hijri (634 A.D.) in the time of Hazrat Omar.

The Persian King Yazdjard had also sought the help of the Sind ruler who sent Jat soldiers and elephants which were used against the Arabs in the battle of Qadisia.

According to Tibri, Hazrat Ali had employed Jats to guard Basra treasury during the battle of Jamal. "Jats were the guards of the Baitul Maal at al-Basra during the time of Hazrat Osman and Hazrat Ali."13 Amir Muawiya had settled them on the Syrian border to fight against the Romans. It is said that 4,000 Jats of Sind joined Mohammad Bin Qasim's army and fought against Raja Dahir. Sindhi Jats henceforth began to be regularly recruited in the Muslim armies.

"Some of the Zutt deserters from the Persian army were transplanted in 670 A.D. by Caliph Muawiya from Basrah to Antioch. When the Arabs conquered Sind, another batch of Zutts whom the conquerors had uprooted from their native pastures seem to have been sent to Syria by Hajjaj (691-713 A.D.) and eventually sent on by the Caliph Walid 1(707-15 AD) to join the previous batch of Zutt deportees at Antioch whence some, again, were sent on by the Caliph Yazid II (720-24 A.D.) to Massisah in Cicilia…. But the bulk of Hajjaj's deportees from Sind seem to have been settled in Iraq. In the reign of Abbasid Caliph Mansur (813-33 A.D.) they broke into a rebellion which it took him and his successor Mutasim 833-42 AD), the best part of 20 years to quell….. Whether there had or had not been a voluntary immigration as well as a compulsory deportation of Zutt to Iraq from Sind, we may take it that in the course of the first two centuries of Arab rule, manpower from western subcontinent (i.e., Pakistan) had it in one way or another been pouring into a south-western Asia that, on the eve of the Arab conquest, had been depopulated by the two last and most devastating of the Romano-Persian wars."14

This statement of Tonybee is revealing in that it shows the close relations Pakistan had with the Middle East. Sindhis began to settle in areas as far away as Iraq and Syria which were depopulated by wars between the Persians and the Romans.

The origin of European gypsies is also traced to Sindhi Jats. Harun-ur-Rashid had recruited Jats to reinforce Cilician fortress. When the Romans descended on Ayn Zarbah in 855 A.D. they carried off into East Roman territory the Jats together with their women, children and buffaloes. This detachment of the Jats was the advance guard of the gypsies of Europe.15 They continued to pour into Europe in small batches at various stages subsequently

[narenderkharb]

Tewatia ji
This single evidence of attack by romans on Ayan zarbah was generalized by the author and then related to gypsies saying they kept appearing ,without any need to do so.
The author was knowing more about jats but less about other indian casts as people OF Haryana are generally treated as jats.
In the world Gypsie confrence held at chandigarh many years back it was clearly pointed out that these Gypsies were the dom cast of India and it was made clear by those Gypsies only,It was also confirmed in one of post of Soko Norman where he personaly had interaction with Gypsies. their nomadic way of life is peculiar to them and just similar to gypsy but quite different from sedentary way of life of jats.So to link gypsy to jat may not be right.These domes till today have the same way,when asked personaly they relate them to maharana partap and argue since rana took the oath not to return to mewar unless he wins it we are wandering since ,However it looks a figment of imagination to me.

However jat's influence and contribution to Europe history is so obvious THE FATHER OF Alaxender the great was a jat(REFER SOKO POST) and mother was roman who wrote a brilliant chapter in world history.

[sktewatia]

You may true Kharab. But what I quoted is not my history its that particular historian's opinion regarding gypsies. However, you are true; its not only haryana but Arabians called all people Jats who stayed east of Indus river. For them whole India was Jat. Because almost all the warriors they met were Jats in east of Indus river.

[sktewatia]

Mor jats were sanskritised as Mayurkas in Puranas. And Morasur in mahabharta. Similar was with nehra/nara jats, mentioned as narasur. used to be one bakasur also. The kasuan is mentioned as Kashyapghata, the tortoise; Bains/bhains, bhainsruhurd of sanpla in rohtak, is mentioned as Mahishassur, Machhar is mentioned as Matsya, Sapra is writing till today Sapra but some of them have started as sapera and some even like Sparrow (Maj. General Sparrow) meaning Chidiya in hindi. Solanky/Chulik/Chalukyas Jats
were confused by brahmins with the palm of hand at the time of the conversion of Jats into Rajputs at Mount Abu for which no specific date is known till today. It was like chinese (and roman walls?) that continued to be constructed for thousandas of years. Like Sivaji (when became king was associated with the so called Soorya Vanshi Dynasty of Chittore/Jattore) though he was bhonsle maratha. Similar was scindias of gwalior. n e way list is to long.

Similar was the case with Hanumann and all the Vanar Jats of Ramayana who were assumed to be monkeys; though the character of hanuman is the typical Jat one. And similar was the case with Naga Jats. The stories of Nagas "whom brahmins confused with Ichhadhari Snakes" that they they never forgive their enemy, were in fact that of Jats. Jat is a "Deadly friend n at the same time deadly enemy also, whose enemity continues for generations, for births".

Jat gotras are similar. The very ancient ones but still continue till today in its very ancient form.

Burdak ji quotes


Jat rulers in Mahabharata period
There are number of rulers in Mahabharata period after which Jat gotras have been descended.

The story of Savitri and Satyawan has been mentioned in Mahabharata Aranyaparva (277-283). Almost every Indian has studied this story. I have taken certain excerpt from this puranic story, which may be of historical importance.

Ashvapati was king of Madra country. Malwi was his queen who was from Malwa country. Ashwapati had no son. With the blessings of goddess Savitri he got a daughter who was named Savitri. Savitri was married to Satyawan son of Ddyumatsen. Ddyumatsen was king of Shalva country but his neighbour captured his state. He took shelter in a forest with Sal trees. Satyavan once had gone to forest to bring fuel wood along with Savitri. The story mentions that Yama himself came to take life of Satyavan and after taking his life Yama moved in south the direction of their pitras (forefather’s land). Savitri pleased Yama with his intelligent arguments and got back from Yama not only life of Satyavan but his Shalva kingdom as well.

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Comments
*In ancient India the country between the rivers Ravi and Chenab was called Madra.

* Madrak or Madra or Madrayana is an ancient gotra of Jats and is the root of many of the Jat gotras. According to various historians Sialkot, Quetta and Ghazni were the capitals of the Madrakas since ancient times.

* In puranas Yama has been a mythic character. Probably the man who takes the body of a dead man for cremation might have been identified with Yama. But the story indicates about their forefather’s land situated in south.

*The queen of Ashwapati is from Malwa indicates that Jats had ruled Malwa during Puranic period.
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Today, 11:03 PM #2 Dr. S. K. Tewatia vbmenu_register("postmenu_76222", true);
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In my opinion most of them were Jats n Jats only
Plz find the real mahabharat area in my thread "Roots of Jats in the World"

In Sabha parva (chapter 31) the people and kings of various areas are mentioned as attending the Rajsooy Yagna of Yudhittila (how its sounds like Attila the Hun), the gotta. verse 13 of chapter 31 says, "Viratah Saha Putraiseha Machella-Seha Maharathah". Here the Matsya king virata (along with his son) is obviously called machhella (present MACHHER/MACHHAL Jats, unfortunately some of whom write mathur now, forgetting their extremely astonishing past, similarly some of nangdi/nangri gujjars wirte nagar now in a similar manner). "Machhella the Great Charioteerr". This clearly shows that the name of the people was Machhella (present Machhal or Machhar) and it was sansktised into Matsya meaning "fish". Virata is the title of crowned kings of Uttara Kuru and Uttara Madra.

I'd request Machhar jats and Nangdi gujjars now to preserve their goths in original. By changing them they may loose much of their valuable history.

And Satyavati (the mrs santunu) was also not dheevar kanya but a jatni of this machher goth.

[sktewatia]

Flaura and Fauna means plants and animals. Jats like their sur-names kept these alive in its original form and till today these words are found common in all Indo-european languages.

Here, I suppose, that we Jats must start a new thread on this topic

Why animals names resemble many of our Jat Gotras? Why Siva was called Pasupati? Why a god with three horns is found in Indus Valley surrounded by animals?...............????????/

Many of Jat gotras viz. Sandhu means "Horse", Gaja Means "Elephant", Got (Jat) means "Got", Dagar means "Dogger, Dagger, Danger etc.". In haryanvi it truly means "Daangars meaning Dhor-Pashu, meaning all animals and there dog was the best friend of all animals including the human animals".

[sampuran]

Given below is the recent research paper from the famous journal. It shows similarity of genes only but our views about origin and migrations may be different.



http://www.genome.org/adsystem/graph...45&adview=true http://www.genome.org/adsystem/graph...15&adview=true


Published online before print May 8, 2001, 10.1101/gr.GR-1733RR

Genetic Evidence on the Origins of Indian Caste Populations

Michael Bamshad,1,10,12 Toomas Kivisild,2 W. Scott Watkins,3 Mary ........ A. Batzer,9,11 and Lynn B. Jorde3

1 Department of Pediatrics, University of Utah, Salt Lake City, Utah 84112, USA; ............ate University Health Science Center, New Orleans, Louisiana 70112, USA


The origins and affinities of the ~1 billion people living on the subcontinent of India have long been contested. This is owing, in part, to the many different waves of immigrants that have influenced the genetic structure of India. In the most recent of these waves, Indo-European-speaking people from West Eurasia entered India from the Northwest and diffused throughout the subcontinent. They purportedly admixed with or displaced indigenous Dravidic-speaking populations. Subsequently they may have established the Hindu caste system and placed themselves primarily in castes of higher rank. To explore the impact of West Eurasians on contemporary Indian caste populations, we compared mtDNA (400 bp of hypervariable region 1 and 14 restriction site polymorphisms) and Y-chromosome (20 biallelic polymorphisms and 5 short tandem repeats) variation in ~265 males from eight castes of different rank to ~750 Africans, Asians, Europeans, and other Indians. s.

The researchers had already assumed that West Europeans entering India was a fact and then started researchin on the same.

Naturally, they found what they wanted to prove.


There is a contrary view, not by a Kalu Indian, but by a western white itself. I shall come put it forward when I have been able to find it once again. (

[narenderkharb]

This is true they had certain preconcieved notions.

So despite every right result infernces of those results was wrong .

These wrong assumptions are not held only by those white man it is held even by most our present historians till today and if I am not wrong even by you.

What is this wrong assumption which lead to wrong interpretation of true scientific results.

This is....

Considering vedic brahmans a native of India.

jat and other native groups later enterant in to indian lands.

Fact is just reverse ,see all the results in the background of these results and you will see every single test telling a true story which ask for a new approach to see the history of India.

History of India is nothing but the History of JATS......Dr. Jakir Hussain.


PS. However do not cast any aspersions on the authenticity of these tests,these were not conducted by one single person but many scientists from different countries and results are not fabricated,even most reputated scientist of India does not talk about their fabrication but mention their wrong inferences.

[sktewatia]

This is true they had certain preconcieved notions.

So despite every right result infernces of those results was wrong .

These wrong assumptions are not held only by those white man it is held even by most our present historians till today and if I am not wrong even by you.

What is this wrong assumption which lead to wrong interpretation of true scientific results.

This is....

Considering vedic brahmans a native of India.

jat and other native groups later enterant in to indian lands.

Fact is just reverse ,see all the results in the background of these results and you will see every single test telling a true story which ask for a new approach to see the history of India.

History of India is nothing but the History of JATS......Dr. Jakir Hussain.


PS. However do not cast any aspersions on the authenticity of these tests,these were not conducted by one single person but many scientists from different countries and results are not fabricated,even most reputated scientist of India does not talk about their fabrication but mention their wrong inferences.

Balle balle. Mera dil bagh bagh ho gaya. My heart is garden garden.

I feel now that whether u'r jats or not but u take care of them. But leave them from the clutches of religion region.. etc.

Whether hindu, sikh, muslim, christien, arya samaji, kabir panthi, bisnoi, budhist (like gautam budha), jain (like acharya sushil muni).....

a jat remained a jat always.

[narenderkharb]

I Too agree.
Spare these jats from hindu,muslim sikh,christian bhuddism devide.
India.pakistan,romania germany devide.

LET JAT BE JATS,NOT HINDU,MUSLIMS ETC.