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Thread: Career Options - Upgrading as you go

  1. #1

    Career Options - Upgrading as you go

    I am writing this post not for the members on this site but for the broader community including friends, relatives, and villagers the members may need/want to advice. The suggestions provided here are not just theoretical ideas but are the ones I have used to help a large number of younger people (mostly immigrants of Indian origin in Canada) over the past 30 years, and the success rate has been extremely good.

    One of the major problem in our community from my observations is that we all want our children to become doctors or get into an IIT (I belong to the same category as I entered IIT Bombay in 1960, and my both children became medical doctors in Canada), and in the process, sometimes do a long term harm to our children because there are many other paths to a successful career which we overlook.

    The main cause of this problem is due to the shortcoming of the accepted Indian education system where you really get only one chance to succeed. Just because a child does not get in to IIT or Medicine does not mean that he/she is lacking potential. In fact, most people go through one or more downturns in their life and unfortunately, if that happens to you at the age 16-18 then the damage in the Indian system is too severe.

    Things are quite different in North America where you can put up your act together at a later age and in fact, come out at the top. The most startling example that comes to mind is of Sanjay Kumar (founder of Computer Associates, one of the largest software company in the world), a young billionnaire, who was forced to go to a premedical program by his immigrant parents and flunked out. It was his high school math teacher who told him that he should have gone to computer science in the first place and it is never too late to change field of study in North America, and of course, Kumar did just that and became so successful.

    On the other side of the coin, I relate here a personal experience from about 20 years ago in Edmonton, Canada. There were very few Jat families and we were always eager to meet any new Jat in town. One Ja family moved from central Canada and their daughter was a nurse, which is a very decent job in Canada. After knowing them for a few weeks I realized that the girl was very smart and became a nurse because of lack of guidance. I told them that there is nothing wrong in being a nurse but it is not good to shortchange oneself and she should become a doctor. By chance, my daughter had just finished highschool and joined premed program so all the books were there. Because of our encouragement the girl took a leave of absence from her job and went took premed courses and became a doctor at the age of 35 and is now a very successful physician in Canada.

    Those who can not get into Engineering programs sometimes go to Polytechnics in India or Community Colleges in Canada/USA to get a Diploma and often work in subservient positions to Engineers. But it does not have to be that way. There are a few universities lik the one I teach that give credit for such studies and let the students have a chance for an Engineering degree. In the past 17 years I have guided about 100 students ( mainly Jat Sikhs, and Sri Lankan Tamils) with Diploma from India to an Engineering Degree and each of them has a good career. One of my Sri Lankan student is now a Senior Manager of a large company in New Jersey and each time he gets a promotion he calls me first before calling his parents and tells me he could have never imagined in his dreams that he could be an engineer from Canada and that he now supervises people who have degree from Princeton.

    I have seen people paying several lacs of Rupees to get into some semifraudulent Engineering colleges in India. It is better to go to a polytechnic at very little expense and then get a degree from here in 2 years ( at about 5 lacs per year), but pay for the education by taking a coop job in the summer.

    The job of a school teacher is unfortunately, not looked with great respect in India. But as many of you might know there is a tremendous shortage of math and science teachers in Canada/USA in some areas. Again, in North America, if you are a school teacher with ambition and potential, you do not have to stay as a school teacher. You can go on to do a Ph.D. in Education and become a professor. all professors of Education in North America have to have experience as school teachers. An example of one of my good friends is Dr. Raj Pannu (a Jat Sikh) who came to Canada as a school teacher long time ago, became a professor at the University of Alberta and won election to become an MLA and leader of opposition in Alberta assembly after retirement as a professor.

    Another area completely overlooked by most Indians is th broader field of health care. One can have good career as physiotherapist, respiratory technologist, radiology technologist etc. Few years ago I met one Jat family and their son was an Ayurvedic doctor from India. I told them it is true a guy like Deepak Chopra can make it big as an Ayurvedic doctor but he is a very well qualified physician to begin with. So, I advised him to become a Respiratory Technologist and now he is doing very well as a Respiratory Tech and an Ayurvedic doctor on the side.

    So, in conclusion, I reiterate that there are lot of career options other than doctors or engineers and that one should not give up if success does not come in the first attempt.

  2. #2
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    dear birbal ji
    very rightly pointed by u . One has to know where his heart lies and mix pleasure with job .If one likes what one does , there can not be asking for more .

    towards this ,even diverse field like art , music , cinema , theatre and entertainment industry is going to be next big boom after IT industry . fashion industry , tourism and journalism (virtually untouched by jats ) are some other to ponder over .

    last but not the least , education is the key to all the problems of jats and indians too ,for that matter , we need education reform more then economic reforms .

    regards and best wishes to u and ur family .

  3. #3
    very well said Sir.
    The problem is not education or talent, the problem is that indian system does not teach or encourage "risk". We as a society, specially the middle class, are averse to taking risk in our life and loosers become untouchables.We are so scared of even 1 failure that we avoid risks at all cost. We are so cruel to failures that only extremely passionate or desparate take risks. So, we take the safest bet. Get a engr or medical degree and join a sarkari naukri and u are all set for life.

    US (closely followed by other western countries) is on the other end of extreme. They as a society take risks, experiment with new ideas and failure is just considered another stepping stone to success.

    The least, we as a community can do is not to discourage someone from taking a courageous step and stop laughing at those who fail. If u can help, support and encourage, it will be a big bonus.

  4. #4
    Dr. Birbal Ji,

    Thank you very much for some great advice.

    Really appreciated.

    -ajmer

  5. #5
    Gr8 advice!! As i have pointed to some of our jat fellow relatives and friends giving the example of one of our close friend:Senator Satveer Choudhary. First Indian american and JAT. Read his bio on his website to know more about him. His younger brother is air force pilot( fighter plane). So, both son are in totally different field.

    http://www.chaudhary.org/

  6. #6
    Firstly thanks to Dr. Birbal ji for writing a very detailed and true thoughts of Indian parents in general. What Mr. Anil has mentioned is true too. We as a society are more of a follower rather than a leader. Followers usually seek safe havens but leaders are more risk takers. It’s the educated environment in US and most developed countries that let individual become risk takers because majority still have resources to afford a basic life style of life (roti, kapada and maakan/apartment).

    Anyway the gist of your thread still remains true that there exist more platforms for a successful lifestyle other than being an engineer or Doctor!!!

  7. #7
    thanx for the service
    i'm guiding the boys in the village on the same line. but ur viewpoint is more clear and more broad. i get a lot from ur experience. keep the pace.
    ए भोले इन्सान दो बात मेरी मान ले|
    एक बोलना ले सीख और शत्रु पहचान ले|

  8. #8
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    Ramesh Lakra (May 11, 2004 01:32 p.m.):
    dear birbal ji
    very rightly pointed by u . One has to know where his heart lies and mix pleasure with job .If one likes what one does , there can not be asking for more .

    towards this ,even diverse field like art , music , cinema , theatre and entertainment industry is going to be next big boom after IT industry . fashion industry , tourism and journalism (virtually untouched by jats ) are some other to ponder over .

    last but not the least , education is the key to all the problems of jats and indians too ,for that matter , we need education reform more then economic reforms .

    regards and best wishes to u and ur family .
    sir i have dne my B.D.S[DENTIST ]DEGREE FROM INDIA NOW I AM LOOKING FORWARD FOR MY PG WILL U GIVE ME SOME GUIDANCE WHERE SHOULD I APPLY

  9. #9
    Dr. Rakesh,

    Send me your brief cv to my office email at birbal.singh@lakeheadu.ca

    The profession of Dentistry is extremely lucrative in North America and because of that it is very competitive. After looking at your cv I will suggest the process and hope something materialises.

    Birbal Singh

  10. #10
    Dearest Uncleji,
    Dhok!

    Hats off to u for giving sucha great & pragmatic advice, I really admire it.
    Well, I personally do believe that there’re two kinda ppl in this world, ones who follow & remaining ones who make their own ways.
    But this also true that most of Indians are followers, u cans see that whenever a new field arises everyone wanna get after it even without thinking that is the right path for him or not.

    I strongly believe that soul satisfaction should be the key thing, whichever stream one chooses he/she should get full satisfaction from it otherwise it’s worthless. For me passion & profession should match although it’s a rare combo.

    All I wanna say that first we should analyze thoroughly before choosing the right career path & there after we should work hard & smartly to make our long time cherished dreams come true.

    One more thing Uncle, where r u natively from Rajasthan, myself is from Renwal, Jaipur.
    Well, as u given a point in the post about the indi-ppl in Edmonton. I just wanna let u know that my tauji Dr. R. D. Mehta is in Edmonton as well for more then last 30 yrs & running a biological research company there. They have actually done their M.Sc. in genetics from Udaipur University & after that they moved over Edmonton to achieve their Ph.D from University of Alberta.
    U can visit their company website at: www.ispex.ca/pbr

    Don’t know why but I feel that probably u would know that well.


    Waitin’ for ur kind response…

    Take care,

    Affectionately,
    Jitendra
    Jat~ distinctive since 1979!

    Ps: btw, one last thing Dr. Rakesh is my cousin.
    .. " Until Lions have their historians, tales of the hunt shall always glorify the hunter! " ..



  11. #11
    Jitendra,

    As they say it is a small world. Not only Dr.Mehtaji is our friend in Edmonton for a long time (from the time Nirmal an Veena were little girls), he knew my wife's side of family before I was married. But I left Edmonton 17 years ago to become a professor. He is one of the best experts in his field.

    Good luck.

    Birbal Singh

  12. #12
    thanks a lot uncle for ur nice message!
    I know it's a small world & it get more smaller for jat comunity. it's a nice coinscidence that kahin na khin kaise bhi jaton mein contacts nikal hi aate hein & it's a great thing indeed.
    well, I'll talk to tauji about u.
    Uncle, my elder sis Savita is also got settled in Calgary in 1999 as well.
    btw, uncle when will u get back to India again, willing to meet u!

    it's a great pleasure to talk to u!

    thanks & take care,

    Affectionatly,
    Jitendra
    .. " Until Lions have their historians, tales of the hunt shall always glorify the hunter! " ..



  13. #13
    Dr. Birbal is doing a tremendous job about spreading knowledge about the various options available for students. Thanks go out to him. It takes a lot of energy and dedication to keep up and provide a service with no intention of any rewards or returns.

    I'd like to also mention that Canada is usually an overlooked educational destination. There are a lot of universities there that provide a world class education at much cheaper prices than compared to (say) USA.

    Please explore univerisites in Alberta (Edmonton, Calgary), Saskatchewan (Regina, Saskatoon), Manitoba (Winnipeg, ...) etc which are interior Canada places.

    These universities are lesser well known but provide a top class education. Because they are lesser well known they tend to be overlooked...but still love to get overseas students...and help to provide financial assistance.

    So do take a look.

    And please spread the word to our college going kids in India that they should make every effort to explore highr education abroad. There are many options. Its just the lack of knowledge of these that holds many of our fellas back.

    Please encourage every child and college going person to reach for their potential.

  14. #14
    Jitendra,

    I am on a sabbatical leave up to Dec. 31, 2004 and I plan to spend about 3 months in India (Oct 1 - dec 31). Hope to see you then.

    Good luck.

    Birbal Singh

  15. #15
    Dear Dr. Birbal Singhji,

    Namaskar. I am following you everywhere ! I am proud that our community have torch bearers like you. Actually I am relatively new to this site and was just in the process of browing the posts. I am writing this to seek your valuable advice. I have two sons. Elder one is completing his schooling next month from Seoul Foreign School (American pattern) and by God's grace he is good at studies. He is always in the top bracket (95-97%). People say that CBSE exams are difficult but even there he completed his 10th with 94% marks. Now he aspire to do aerospace engineering. Though, due to financial reasons I wanted to send him back to India for further studies, he didn't apply to any university in US but applied to some 2-3 in Canada and one in Korea. He has got admission in Mcgill University in Canada (Mechanial with aerospace concentration) and Carleton (aerospace). Of these Mcgil has offered him financial assistance of C $ 10,000/- and Carleton has yet to decide on scholarship. In Korea, he has got admission in aerospace at Korean Advance Institute of Science & Technology (KAIST) - i.e. counterpart of IIS Bangalore. KAIST was adjudged as the best engineering institution by Asiaweek magazine for the years 1999 and 2000. Besides, he is likely to get admission in Delhi College of Engineering (Electronics & Telecommunications). I am a big zero in technical field. I don't know which field is good. I am confused as to where should I put him. Main worrying factor is financing as the younger is just two years junior and will be completing his schooling in 2006 and I have to look after his welfare too. KAIST is relatively cheaper as I may have to support only his hostel expenses which too is in the region of less than a thousand dollars p.a. I need your advice as to which of the above engineering fields has better future prospects ? What is the acceptance of a degree from KAIST in Americas ? If I put him in Mcgil, how is the University and after assistance of C $ 10,000/- how much do I have to shell out p.a. to support him ? I look forward to your advice ? Regards.

    JAT - Just And True

  16. #16
    Shehrawatji,

    From the desciption you provided I can say that you have a very bright son with great future ahead. I wish you had contacted me several months ago because in my opinion the best place for a child of that calibre is the University of Waterloo, Canada (rated one of the best in world) and it is a co-op program (study 8 months and work 8 months alternatively), so a good kid graduates without spending parents' money. However, McGill and KAIST are both renowned schools. I edited a book in 1990 with prof. Y.T. Im of KAIST and came to know about the school and it is first rate. I will provide you with my analysis and then you decide.

    First, I will exclude Delhi College of Engineering outright. In India, I would not suggest anything other than IIT or BITS Pilani for a child of that calibre. Carleton is a decnt program but not as good as McGill. However, if they offer better financial assistance then it is a different issue. Because a boy like that definitely will some day go on to do an MBA or higher degree in Engineering and to get into those programs a students' rank in the graduating class is very important i.e. it is better to be top from Carleton than fourth or fifth from McGill. But on the other side if one goes to a lower rated school one has to make sure to come near the top.

    I have taken counselling as a hobby for a long time and I feel great when I recall all the students I have helped and they appreciate a lot. But my wife and children tell me that even though my success in counselling has been very good, because of my personal background of poverty I have usually guided students in safe directions and that I should change and guide students to take bigger risks. But since mostly I have helped poor Canadians (there are lot of poor white people too!) and immigrants (mainly Jat Sikhs and Sri Lankan Tamils) I have always felt safety is more important. In your case it is different.

    At McGill, after getting $10,000, you may still need another $10,000 to $15,000 (somebody like me can probably live on lot less but I assume your son is used to a life style which is higher). But knowing his calibre, he should be able to get a decent summer job on campus as Research Assistant or outside and pay part of it. As he moves to second year onwards and he is so good, he can get tutoring job (part time) during the semester without harming his studies. The point I am making is with assistance of $10,000, somebody like me can manage to live without parents assistance but a child used to a better life may need up to $10,000 Canadian per year. So, the real cost per year is between zero and $10,000 per year.

    The advantage of North American undergraduate education ( and that too from a world wide known name like McGill) is that one has a stamp of credibility for life. When we come from India, it does not matter how smart we are, we have to prove our mettle at each stage. All doors will be open for him if we works hard and maintains his scholarship. (Few years ago, one of my Brahmin friend in Africa had sent his son to McGill on my advice but unfortunately the boy did not work hard and I had to bring him to my university, which is not highly reputed to be frank, and the end result was still good as he has a good career). So, if he keeps working hard McGill is a great option.

    AS far as academic standard is concerned KAIST is no less than IITs or the best American universities. The only slight disadvantage as I mentioned earlier that with degree from KAIST he will have to prove his abilities again in North America ( I am assuming irrespective of where he decides to settle a person of that calibre will end up in North America at least once unless).

    In my opinion you have pretty good choices and either McGill or KAIST is fine.

    Hope this helps.

    Birbal Singh

  17. #17
    Dear Dr. Birbal Singhji,

    Thanks for your advice and kind words which have cleared the clouds of confusion in me to a great extent. I really appreciate that you spare your valuable time for the welfare of community. I have also shown your message to my son who agrees with what you have said and has shortlisted KAIST and Mcgil, in that order. (Perhaps KAIST is his first choice because he is his Mama's boy, has never been away from the family and we have about a year or two more in Korea). He is of the view that he would do his undergraduate, degree from KAIST and then move over to Americas. Anyway, thanks so much for your advice once again.

    JAT - Just And True

  18. #18
    Respected Dr. Birbal Singhji,

    I thought I should, while thanking you for your valuable guidance, keep you posted that my son, Sanchit Sehrawat, became the first foreign UG student (and the only one so far) at KAIST. You will be further happy to know that he got 6 in all his IB subjects and at school his final aggregate was 96.4%. At KAIST also he got a scholarship of USD five thousand and he has not to pay any tuition fee as education at KAIST is 100 per cent subsidised. As a result from my side he is self-dependent. He has settled down there very well within ten days and in fact has been appointed as reporter for their in-House newspaper "Kaist Herald", first UG to be so appointed.

    Though, till last year they were not teaching UG students in English medium, from this year beginning with Sanchit, they have started english medium classes. Hence, I am sure you will guide more and more jat students who cannot afford the exhorbitant cost of education in American Universities to join this Institute as this is the best in Asia (No.1 as per survey conducted by Newsweek magazine) and is said to be at par with top 20% of the US universities. PG and PHD were already in English language and there are some Indian students are already studying at these levels.

    I thank you once again and am sure the jat biradari will keep benefiting from your valuable guidance.

    Warm regards
    JAT - For Justice And Truth

  19. #19
    Shehrawatji,

    Congratulations to Sanchit for his accomplishments and to you and Mrs. Shehrawat for being such great parents. From his credentials he seems to be an all rounder and I would suggest when time comes, he should apply for Rhodes Scholarship. It would be great to see a Jat (there might have been but I do not know any) getting the Rhodes Scholarship as the fomer recepients include the likes of Bill Clinton, Robert Reich, several Canadian Prime Ministers and provincial premeirs.

  20. #20
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    Hello Uncleji,

    Though I am new to this website, I read all of your articles on Jatland.com. I REALLY need your help and guidance. My background is -- Did my Engineer from Kurukshetra University, then came to Toronto, Canada on Student Visa and did a Post Graduate Diploma in "Wireless Networking". Now, my problem is that I am not able to find any entry level job in my field. My student Visa is getting expired on 15th November, 2004 and to get a one-year work permit, I have to get an offer letter from a company before 10th October, 2004. Uncleji, I would really appreciate if you can help me out in anyway or you know any person in netwokring field or who has his own small company with few computers. I scored well in my Post Diploma here and got a scholarship too. If you want, I would be more than happy to send you my resume or call you for guidance.

    Thank you very much,

    Warm Regards,
    Sunil Rathi
    416-731-2717

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