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Thread: Maharana Pratap - A Jat ??????????

  1. #41
    bharat singh

    From your post it looks that you believe that four varna always existed and rajput you feel belong to a cast or khastriya varna.
    Though it is common knowledge but I would quote Ibbetson as that may look more accurate version to you.

    out of these so called four groups
    Khastriya and vaishya never existed.
    Sudra is just a derogatory term
    only brahman group existed.

    Than why this confusion because the khastriya was used in India in literary term originally used for khastriyas of eastern europe which were living along with brahmans priests when they entered India the term of their literature was used more in literary sence.

    Now according to this varna definition the agricultrists are termed as vaishya.Have you ever seen vaishya used with or for any jat farmer.
    This should open your concept of varna.
    Again it seems that you find gujjar and rajput some different stock.
    For that I will like you read any Indian history book on rajputs.

  2. #42
    respected members ram ram,
    mere khyaal se maharana pratap ko chord kar us samay ke saare rajput raja ne apni behen aur beti ki saadi muslims se kar di thi unse darr ke, kyonki hamesha rajput , muslims se haarte rahe hai mujhe to koi badaai ki baat lagti nahi rajput ithias mai, mujhe nahi lagta agar jat aur rajput rajasthan mai ek saath rehte the to rajasthan ka naam rajputana tha.

  3. #43
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    Last edited by sktewatia; July 2nd, 2006 at 09:32 AM.

  4. #44
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    Last edited by sktewatia; July 2nd, 2006 at 09:33 AM.

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    Last edited by sktewatia; July 2nd, 2006 at 09:33 AM.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by vjkharub
    Narender Bhai Sahab,

    I was under the impression that its called Satrol Khap because 70 villages constitute this Khap ..... 70 Villages = Satrol Khap ....

    Are you sure it has something to do with somebody's name ???

    Hi VJ

    The historical details are well documented and explained both by Elliot AND HA Rose in different books.It also sheds some light on toor and jat connection.

    Story goes like this After the defeat of toors in delhi one of their decendants Dul rai(?) shifted to jilopattan near jaipur.He had a son jairat .JAIRAT was married to daughter of Saroha ruler of sirsa.Jairat had three sons JATU RAGHU AND SATROLA .Though the elliot says that jairat was their brother but rose looks more accurate in his version.Jatu shifted to Bhiwani and he was given hansi and satrol areas by Sarohas of sirsa.He had constant fight with panwars of rohtak and an arid region near maham was settled as boundary of two rulers.This boundary (Sand dunes near maham sugar mill) is still called as jatu panwar ka dola.The decendants of jatu were called as jatu rajputs but when enqired by britishers some of these jatus who converted to muslim religion called them jats .Why was he called JATU has a different story that he had hair from birth ie jata but than he could have been called as jatau but any way it is irrelvant to the thread.

    JATU invited his other brothers raghu and satrola in hansi and they established three tapas jatu covering region towards bhiwani Satrol area between maham and hansi and raghu.We don't know for sure that kharbs are related to toor or not but chahal gotr is mentioned as original toor got both by bards and historians such as Elliot who had some research on it.

    Now the sons of jatu hari and one another established two villages of this area one rajali and other gurrana.

    Now elders of both these village say that village was settled by their elders

    Not a single rajput live there not to say of toors as per my information that needs varification.

    When I enquired about got I came to know that chahal live there in both villages that hints that toors were later called as chahal jats.

    I don't know abot Saroha rajput but it is a prominent got of jats and jats historically had this tradition of marrying in jats only with hardly some exceptions.

    Even if saroha was rajput he married his other daughter to father of guga peer who is remembered as chahal jat.So jatu and guga peer were brothers.

    Reference Elliot cast and tribes of INDIA
    HA Rose cast and tribes of nort west India vol.11 page 378
    Last edited by narenderkharb; July 6th, 2006 at 10:57 PM.

  7. #47

    Very Informative

    thanks for the info ... very enlightening
    Foot Soldier - Azad Hind Fauj - becasue the struggle is not over yet

  8. #48
    being a gehlot myself...i would like to shed some light to this discussion....infact when i was curious about jats and especially gehlots...my father told me that they came to the current village where they reside (sihaul..teh...palwal...faridabad) from rajasthan (from chittaur) many generations back, which I believe was after Rana prataps defeat at the hands of akbar...he also told me that sisodia/sishodia is more of a clan name and gehlot is the gotra...he also mentioned one this about gehlot/sisodia which is more of a folklore i guess...he said that they also used to use the moondphood (one punch was enough for the people of this brave clan to blow away the head of the enemy) to describe themselves....infact i have heard that the many gehlots used to include both gehlot and sisodia in their name....I am not sure my father is much of a historian but he must have heard this from his father/grandfather and passed it on to me....i am not debating whether rana pratap was a jat or a rajput....but given the fact that jats have always controlled the most fertile regions of north india (doab, present haryana and punjab) they obviously were more powerful than rajputs who were relegated to rule the desert
    Dreams do become true, but you have to wake up first

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by upender
    being a gehlot myself...i would like to shed some light to this discussion....infact when i was curious about jats and especially gehlots...my father told me that they came to the current village where they reside (sihaul..teh...palwal...faridabad) from rajasthan (from chittaur) many generations back, which I believe was after Rana prataps defeat at the hands of akbar...he also told me that sisodia/sishodia is more of a clan name and gehlot is the gotra...he also mentioned one this about gehlot/sisodia which is more of a folklore i guess...he said that they also used to use the moondphood (one punch was enough for the people of this brave clan to blow away the head of the enemy) to describe themselves....infact i have heard that the many gehlots used to include both gehlot and sisodia in their name....I am not sure my father is much of a historian but he must have heard this from his father/grandfather and passed it on to me....i am not debating whether rana pratap was a jat or a rajput....but given the fact that jats have always controlled the most fertile regions of north india (doab, present haryana and punjab) they obviously were more powerful than rajputs who were relegated to rule the desert
    But then upender, Jats of Sihaul, were historically n politically inactive. There Dabices (Dabas Jats) in Dabasan dnt know that they are the descendents/ancestors of those great warriors of Iran who killed Cyrus. Sehrawats are also ignorent about their ancestry that they used to be one of the five branches of Kanishka/Saka usually called as Satraps namely western Satraps. Similar to the one later as Marathas had five branches: Scindias of Gwalior (now a days claiming Rajputs n even Jats in Rajasthan as CM), Holkers of Indore, Gaekwads of Ahmadabad, Peshwas of Pune and Bhonsles of Nagpur. Originally these centres used to be controlled by Jats and Ujjain used to be the center where Jats n Jats used to be there even to the extent Ujjain was just not hounored without Gutasya Putra.
    Last edited by sktewatia; July 9th, 2006 at 12:17 AM.

  10. #50
    Thanks for ur valuable info...
    Last edited by upender; July 9th, 2006 at 02:05 AM.
    Dreams do become true, but you have to wake up first

  11. #51
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    Sihaul me te koon ke ghar me te hai, bhaiya upender? Gyasi, Kisora, Kissi, Gidra, Kaptaann, Baksi..... Guchari me paani bhare ke na bhare aaj kal? Dungar ke ped pe chadyao ka ke na?
    Last edited by sktewatia; July 9th, 2006 at 04:45 PM.

  12. #52
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    I've seen in Sihaul that Gahlotes over there used to entertain Bhubhariyas i.e wandering iron smiths, used to give them wheat food etc. under the misconception that they used to boast that they are also gahlotes like them. They also supported maharana pratap, once upon a time and vowed with him that they would never settle untill Chittore is won back. As Chittore was never won back by Rana so they have not settled till today. But have u ever heard of that battle of haldi ghati? do you know the composition of maharana pratap army? it was just 3000 in haldi ghati. n out of that 1500 were muslims under the command of hassan khan mewati. more than 1000 jats. rest all mixed tribes. Rajputs were not even a few n perhaps Rana pratap alone was rajput in that battle. He fled from the battle on chetak. while fleeing from the battle he over exerted chetak and chetak, the poor horse died. he never had the future vision of India, he never had the future vision of hinduism for which rajputs were born on mount abu by unnatural means! and even if he had won against akbar, he had no vision of hindustan (like akbar had), he simply had a vision of chittore. unfortunately to him its original name was also Jattore/Jittore and not Rajputtore! Even Alberuni mentioned it as Jittore/Jattore. his father n son were already akbar ke pithoo. within half an hour that battle of haldi ghati was over. bheel ke bharose lada rana pratap and later he tendered apology also to akbar. but akbar did not forgive him.
    Last edited by sktewatia; July 9th, 2006 at 04:44 PM.

  13. #53
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    How chetak died? Rana pratap ne apne dar ke maare use khoob daudaya? Chetak could not cross even a simple drain. Whenever, Rana was about to loose the battle he fled from the battle. Saari zindagi idhar udhar dubakta phira tha vo. Per ek baat ki daad deni padegi us ki ke vo bhagne me itna mahir/ustad tha ke Akbar ke haath nahin aaya kabhi. ..LoL....
    Last edited by sktewatia; July 9th, 2006 at 05:03 PM.

  14. #54
    Uncle ji, apane toh mujhe assmanjas main daal diyaa hai...

    Kabhi maine hindi main attishyokti alankaar kah udaaharan padhaa thaa...aur usmen huldighati key yuudh kah varnann kuuch iss prakaar sey kiyaa thaah...

    Aik koh maare doh mar jaaye,
    Teesra khoup khaye mar jaaye,
    Chouthe koh ghouda taap sey maare,
    Panchve koh mukh sey dey chabaaye.

    (Ghouda yahaan chetak hai)...
    Jat Balwaan\n Jai Bhagwaan

  15. #55
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    Rohit, its all false and another Chandra Bardayee style story as in case of Prithviraj Chauhan. Rajputs were usually defeated and boasted later by such fictitious songs. Rana Pratap's stature in history nowhere stands as compared to any usual Jat king like Nahar Singh etc. but still we find many many places after his name. Its irony.
    Last edited by sktewatia; July 9th, 2006 at 05:00 PM.

  16. #56
    tewatia sahab aapko sihaul ke baare mein bahut kuch jankari hai.....Mere dadaji ka subhnaam hai ch.ramkishan...waise hum saado main se hain....sahi dada bagichi ke baare main to suna hi hoga aapne...my dads name is Ch. rajinder singh....meri dadiji ka gotra bhi tewatia hai....its been 6 years since i have visited my village so not much idea abt whats going on there now.....humhari bhua ( my dads' tau's(ch.sailkaran) daughter) was married to Shayam Lal Ex MLA (palwal) ( who expired many years back in a car accident) who incidently was also a tewatia...
    Last edited by upender; July 9th, 2006 at 08:15 AM.
    Dreams do become true, but you have to wake up first

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by upender
    tewatia sahab aapko sihaul ke baare mein bahut kuch jankari hai.....Mere dadaji ka subhnaam hai ch.ramkishan...waise hum saado main se hain....sahi dada bagichi ke baare main to suna hi hoga aapne...my dads name is Ch. rajinder singh....meri dadiji ka gotra bhi tewatia hai....its been 6 years since i have visited my village so not much idea abt whats going on there now.....humhari bhua ( my dads' tau's(ch.sailkaran) daughter) was married to Shayam Lal Ex MLA (palwal) ( who expired many years back in a car accident) who incidently was also a tewatia...
    yes Upenderji, I spent my childhood in Sihaul. I think Bagichi wale Sahi Dada was ancestor of Gahlotes in Sihaul. My nanaji was Ch. Ram Richhpal Singh, he was Assistant Registrar of Co-operative societies in Undivided Punjab before 1947 and later in Haryana. My mother knows your Grandpa. Its good to see you. My best wishes!

  18. #58
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    Well, chhotasinsinwar, the great! I hope u'll improve your knowledge. Ijjesselmeir is even now a city/place in Jutland.


    The Jutes were a Germanic people who are believed to have originated from Jutland in modern Denmark and part of the Frisian coast. The Jutes, along with the Angles, Saxons and Frisians, were amongst the Germanic tribes who sailed across the North Sea to raid and eventually invade Great Britain from the late fourth century C.E. onwards, either displacing, absorbing or destroying the native Celtic peoples there. According to the Bede, they ended up settling in Kent, Hampshire and the Isle of Wight. There are a number of toponyms that attest to
    Last edited by sktewatia; July 18th, 2006 at 11:02 AM.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by chhotasinsinwar View Post
    Hello Everyone,

    I find the whole debate quite erratic and misguiding.

    The most rediculous thing is Ravi Chuadhry doesnt even know that Rana Sanga and Rana Pratap were two different people. One existed in times of Babar and the other in times of Akbar.

    Rana Ajit Singh, desendent of Maharana Pratap, of Mewar never claimed that he is a Jat. Let us not be afraid of calling a spade a spade.

    Looks like the whole idea behind this discussion is spitting venom against Rajputs. Please realize that our enimy is not the Rajputs, but our Ignorance.

    Dr Tewatiya ji says that Jaisalmer is named after some city somewhere in scandinavia.. how hilarious... who was Jaisal Singh then? President of that country? If there are 1.7 Lakh Jats in Chittorgarh, it doesnt make ruler a jat. If it was so, then how come Kashmir was ruled by a Hindu king where the majority population a muslim.

    There are several theories on caste system in India. 4 varnas were the base. If we agree that Rajputs were not the caste, where do Jats, Ahirs and Gujjars fit in that system?

    Moreover, this discussion was started based on belief of someone in some far off village, I discard it as invalid.

    Let us be brave and accept that Rajasthan was called Rajputana and not Jatistan before independence. Let us not temper the history.

    There are memebers in the forum who do not have any prior knowledge of our history and they will believe this to be true and will end up becoming matter of laugh when they tell this in public.

    Thanks,
    Bharat Singh Sinsinwar
    Chhota Sinsinwar, We Jats have nothing to be much pride of do char ganv ka raja like pratap. We had bigger kings like Surajmal etc. Better concentrate on Asoka who never claimed 2 b Rajput. N never after that Guptas, Kushans, Sakas, Harshavardhana, claimed 2 b Rajputs!
    Last edited by sktewatia; July 18th, 2006 at 10:48 AM.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by chhotasinsinwar View Post
    Hello Everyone,

    I find the whole debate quite erratic and misguiding.

    The most rediculous thing is Ravi Chuadhry doesnt even know that Rana Sanga and Rana Pratap were two different people. One existed in times of Babar and the other in times of Akbar.

    Rana Ajit Singh, desendent of Maharana Pratap, of Mewar never claimed that he is a Jat. Let us not be afraid of calling a spade a spade.

    Looks like the whole idea behind this discussion is spitting venom against Rajputs. Please realize that our enimy is not the Rajputs, but our Ignorance.

    Dr Tewatiya ji says that Jaisalmer is named after some city somewhere in scandinavia.. how hilarious... who was Jaisal Singh then? President of that country? If there are 1.7 Lakh Jats in Chittorgarh, it doesnt make ruler a jat. If it was so, then how come Kashmir was ruled by a Hindu king where the majority population a muslim.

    There are several theories on caste system in India. 4 varnas were the base. If we agree that Rajputs were not the caste, where do Jats, Ahirs and Gujjars fit in that system?

    Moreover, this discussion was started based on belief of someone in some far off village, I discard it as invalid.

    Let us be brave and accept that Rajasthan was called Rajputana and not Jatistan before independence. Let us not temper the history.

    There are memebers in the forum who do not have any prior knowledge of our history and they will believe this to be true and will end up becoming matter of laugh when they tell this in public.

    Thanks,
    Bharat Singh Sinsinwar


    Bharat Singh Sinsinwar Ji ,

    Do not question the knowledge of a scholarly person like Ravi Chaudhry ... .... Ravi Ji has done a lot of research on Jat History as is evident by his posts in the History section and the Jat History group initiated by him @ Yahoo ....

    Though I donot know him personally i can vouch for the fact that his knowledge of history .. especially Jat History is undoubtledly scholarly extensive ..........
    Foot Soldier - Azad Hind Fauj - becasue the struggle is not over yet

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