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Thread: Jatland and Politics!

  1. #1

    Jatland and Politics!

    Dear members,

    I would like to draw your attention to increasing number of threads on political discussions in Jatland. It's not that politics shouldn't be discussed here but the way it gets discussed and the way its affects functioning of forum might distract us from other important aspects of the forum. First of all, most of political discussions lead to nothing, people retain their opinions with which they started, only end up being unpleasantly brainwashed. Secondly, most of the political arguments remain shallow and extreme left or extreme right. Very few people show balanced views by keeping in mind the whole picture. Political discussion is good as long as it's not a blind propoganda of one ideology or other. You can always find arguments to support or oppose any ideology. The point remains do you want to keep arguing for the sake of argument or are you sincere enough to listen to others and get benefit from varities of opinions. Some impressionable and politically inert members might get misled by shallow and partial picture shown in political discussions. Thirdly and most importantly, the political discussion cause animosity among members here. People sharing common political views tend to form subtle clots in forum and these people get habituated to stick to each other unconsciously in apolitical discussions too. If one can agree with everyone's rational arguments one reaches at conclusion that BJP and Congress both are evil, but is it complete truth?

    I would request members to be little considerate while jumping into ideological or political battle.

    -vinod
    Last edited by vinodks; July 1st, 2006 at 06:35 AM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by vinodks
    Dear members,

    I would like to draw your attention to increasing number of threads on political discussions in Jatland. It's not that politics shouldn't be discussed here but the way it gets discussed and the way its affects functioning of forum might distract us from other important aspects of the forum. First of all, most of political discussions lead to nothing, people retain their opinions with which they started, only end up being unpleasantly brainwashed. Secondly, most of the political arguments remain shallow and extreme left or extreme right. Very few people show balanced views by keeping in mind the whole picture. Political discussion is good as long as it's not a blind propoganda of one ideology or other. You can always find arguments to support or oppose any ideology. The point remains do you want to keep arguing for the sake of argument or are you sincere enough to listen to others and get benefit from varities of opinions. Some impressionable and politically inert members may be misleaded by shallow and partial picture shown in political discussions. Thirdly and most importantly, the political discussion cause animosity among members here. People sharing common political views tend to form subtle clots in forum and these people get habituated to stick to each other unconsciously in apolitical discussions too. If one can agree with everyone's rational arguments one reaches at conclusion that BJP and Congress both are evil, but is it complete truth?

    I would request members to be little considerate while jumping into ideological or political battle.

    -vinod
    Sorry to say. I've a little different ideology. Jat was not politically active when he was at sindh. All Jats but ruled by Brahmin Dahir. Though he had a little brahmins over there. You n me would not have been here had sir chhotu ram was not there.

    What u n me are following as research n great scientists, would not have been here had our great politicians were not there. Jats regarded this vidya of engineering and physics as nutt vidya like a nutt revolves in circus. Asli vidya was Jutt vidya.

    Nutt vidya is zero if u dnt Jutt vidya.

    All Jat doctors even if of ayeshas fame were there because they knew jutt vidya means politics!

    If a Jat today does not know the dangers of reservation, n does not know how to be protected from that, then he is following nutt vidya only, bander ki tarah.

    All jats are not intelligent like me n you.

    n u and me r not the custodian of all the jats.

    n if we r then better think of common jat.

    where does Jat pride go when as a chapdasi he offers a water as peon to a person from reserved category who is less meritorious than him?

    Its true that there is no point in discussing party politics here but the burning issues directly affecting Jats cutting across party lines should be discussed.
    Last edited by sktewatia; July 1st, 2006 at 07:57 AM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by sktewatia
    ....
    Nutt vidya is zero if u dnt Jutt vidya.

    All Jat doctors even if of ayeshas fame were there because they knew jutt vidya means politics!

    If a Jat today does not know the dangers of reservation, n does not know how to be protected from that, then he is following nutt vidya only, bander ki tarah.

    ..........
    very interesting Tewatia Sahab.. I will remeber this... I think we need both jutt vidiya and nutt vidiya...

    RK^2

  4. #4

    ..

    I believe nowadays the political vidya is mostly UUTT vidya only :p

    cheers

    ~vivek
    I came, I saw, I slept.

  5. #5
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    Whatever you call it its due to the knowledge of this vidya only that our ancestors positioned and retained us in this most fertile land of the world known as Indo-Gangetic plain. No body generously (sharafat se) allowed Jats to stay and grow here.

  6. #6
    Tewatiaji, I would request you not to digress from original theme of discussion. Otherwise I agree with you.

    -vinod

    Quote Originally Posted by sktewatia
    Whatever you call it its due to the knowledge of this vidya only that our ancestors positioned and retained us in this most fertile land of the world known as Indo-Gangetic plain. No body generously (sharafat se) allowed Jats to stay and grow here.

  7. #7
    Vinod:
    At the micro level your observations are good but the broader implications of what we write and endorse influences what we choose...of course it matters to know your enemy. I am a centrist and retain the freedom to do so. Amartya Sen has recently written a book about identities and the important message is that it is not essential to cast the self in a certain form but to keep our minds open.
    If somebody can dispute the views of Prof. Birbal singh I assume even a lifetime of facts may not suffice to formlate the correct view. My posts are just descriptive and i generally do not hesitate to criticize the right or the left...

  8. #8
    And how does that relate to original points in my post? I don't fully understand what you are trying to say but since you mentioned Amartya Sen's name I would assume that it must be something good. I am ignorant in economics.
    But you just gave an example of arguing for argument's sake, how did you assume that I am trying to dispute Prof. Birbal Singh's view "in the current thread"? Whoever your enemies are please know them well it will be good for you, but I don't care, my posts was not about your enemies or friends by the way. Your being centrist, leftist, rightist, upist or downist doesn't concern the current thread. My points were general obervations about excessive political debates in Jatland.

    -vinod


    Quote Originally Posted by ratananmol
    Vinod:
    At the micro level your observations are good but the broader implications of what we write and endorse influences what we choose...of course it matters to know your enemy. I am a centrist and retain the freedom to do so. Amartya Sen has recently written a book about identities and the important message is that it is not essential to cast the self in a certain form but to keep our minds open.
    If somebody can dispute the views of Prof. Birbal singh I assume even a lifetime of facts may not suffice to formlate the correct view. My posts are just descriptive and i generally do not hesitate to criticize the right or the left...
    Last edited by vinodks; July 1st, 2006 at 10:29 AM.

  9. #9

    Lightbulb show will go on !!

    Quote Originally Posted by vinodks
    Tewatiaji, I would request you not to digress from original theme of discussion. Otherwise I agree with you.

    -vinod
    sorry bhai saab binod,,,,i dont agree wid u...bhai ,, dont call it a political battle. infact its a discussion.... nobdy is imposing his ideas onto others........:oViews ideas, comments, statements expressions,,,,,expressed by members are their individual views ......Most people of my generation got their first exposure to the complexities of haryana politics through the site.....

    politics is a hot topic n the discussions which take place in the hauka meetings flow till d parliament.... yey ek jansadharan ki awaaz sey..........

    different people have different opinions over an issue but this wont affect the equation among jatlanders nor the atmosphere ......
    I dont have personality,i am mere statistics.I used to be "downtoearth". Now this is my present name. Do i possess a name, a face ,an individuality ?:rolleyes:


  10. #10
    I dont think that my political views have prevented me from not cooperating with you in any way despite the fact that i have not been able to address all your misunderstandings; i have a startegy to solve this problem: create less misunderstandings..our 3 year old relationship may have led you to understand me better, i hope, but i will not drag my feet to explain beyond a point..See Sen's latest book on the problems of defining identities and despite these problems and incomplete information people fight out against certain ideas despite their usefullness...It depends on our broadmindedness to behave in a "worldly" way...i dont want to lose my friends at the cost of political "correctness"...i am assuming that your original points caution us towards not getting personal which serves as a good warning though i dont think things needs to be changed drastically.
    BTW i dont agree with all that a senior member (who takes pride in further dividing us as Sangwans and Tewathias) keeps writing ...i think it should be avoided.
    Last edited by ratananmol; July 1st, 2006 at 11:14 AM.

  11. #11
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    I've all along been writing that while a Jat is proud of his got he treats others also at par and equality. Its a good scientific outbreeding social system that our ancestors had devised that a Jat can not marry and expand in his own got. Jat by name itself means "Jut-Gut: means a Federation of Clans", where no single clan can survive on its own". So while all Jats boasting of their own got are one at heart with other Jats. I've been writing to Vonod Sanwan ji also since beginning that Sangwans can not be just 600 years old. They are older and more numerous than that. More history and knowledge need to be explored on them. Sometimes, irritatingly also through personal messages. Now if Sangwans are older and more numerous then its good only for Sangwans and not Tewatias. LoL......

    While coming to politics, I agree that some people are starting threads like Chautala is corrupt or vote for Bhupendra Singh Hooda etc. Such personal politics threads should be avoided. However, personally, I'm not opposed to anyone of them. Moreover, we can appreciate a Jat, all are welcome, but we should not criticise any Jat leader. We should realise that already all non-Jats are more than ready to criticise a Jat. I'm in favour of any Jat leader who treats and leads Jats well and who is concerned about their welfare and future.

    I remeber when Surajmal Society in Delhi was founded and even later all Jat leaders cutting acroos party lines were invited to lead and manage it. Same should be the spirit everywhere for common cause of all Jats.

    Anmol ji I'm quoting from my earlier post in the Thread "Biggest Jat Gotra"
    Last edited by sktewatia; July 2nd, 2006 at 06:38 PM.

  12. #12
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    You all are forgetting Mann. Mann is one of the most common surname in Europe, particularly Germans. One third of German names end up with Mann viz. Shermann, Gillmann, Heinmann (father of Homeopathy medicine), Dobbermann (was a german scientist who made Dobbermann-the most intelligent and ferrocious dog, during Hitler's reign)....

    Tewatia is also a big got not only in India but in Europe also where its pronounced as Teuton (Tewatian, Tewtian, Teotian, Teutian, Teuton...). Its invariably related to Jutes, Jutland....there, even all Germans, European Aryans, Jutes, Gots/Goths etc. over there are called to be derived from Teutonic race. Just google Teutonic on net and find out.

    Takhar is also too big. Its called Tokhar in Central Asia. Just google Tokaristan on net. Its comparable to Sakas (modern Sekhon, Sikarwar Jats), Huns (Modern Henga Jats of Mathura-Bharatpur, name giver to Hungary, Han(z) of Germany and China), Goths (means Jats), Getae (means Jats), Turks (Tur Jats), Aryan etc. in World History.

    No doubt Dahiya is also a very big got. Modern Romania's original name was Gets Dacia meaning Jat Dahiya, Afganistan's name was also Dahiya before Bacria, even Caspian sea was also called Dahi(ya) sea, Dadhi sea, the sea of curd as pauranic historisans sanskrited it and called it Kshir Sagar. Where lord Vishnu stays on Sheshnag.

    I must mention here that Got/Goth is a synonym of Jat in India as well as Europe. At both the places Jats were known by these two names. Jats are originator of the words Jati and Gotra in India. Where gotra is a sanskritised form of Got (Jat)only. I've seen that in no theth language of Jats in India whether Punjabi, Haryanvi, Braj, Rajasthani etc. they till today call it gotra. Whenever a Jat asks another Jat he simply asks "Tera ki got hai?", "Thara ke got se?", "Tyahro koon so got hai?" Nowhere he asks "thara ke gotra se?" This simply means that You are Jat, its ok, but which Jat (Jati) are you? Whether you are Baliyan Jat (got), Rana Jat (got), Dahiya Jat(got)....

    Every Jat goth in my opinion is very big and ancient one. Its only a matter of historical and (social) geographical knowledge. Thats why every Jat is a proud of his own got but treats others also at par and equality. Here, Jats behave unlike Rajputs where Chauhans are superior to Parmars and Gahlotes are superior to Kachhwahas etc.
    __________________
    nothing succeeds like success in history
    Last edited by sktewatia : June 25th, 2006 at 11:19 PM.


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  13. #13
    Any position that does not coincide with your own is an extreme position. The term "extreme position" is very subjective. Many think that I am a "extreme right wing nut." While I think others are extreme "left wing junkies."

    I just think that I am correct about my positions. I am sure others think the same way about their position.

    I am not apologetic for disagreeing with others. I think that you guys are just intellectually feeble. I am sure you think the same way about me.

    So this is the way it keeps going on.

  14. #14
    I dont know whether it was Political discussion or what? I never had an interest in Politics but i felt out of place whenever i read in Current Affairs section or genral Discussion and Thanks to Jatland and its Learned members n their healthy discussions which got me interested in watching NEWS Channels atleast once in a day. So Political Issues must be discussed but not be imposed on anyone
    I AM WHAT I AM....JAT.... 16X2=8

  15. #15
    We should not stop discussing politics or any other Subject matter for the fear of disagreements.

    These debates are quite healthy and I dont think anyone takes this personally and if they do then they shouldnt.
    "Mine is a peaceful religion, I will kill you if you insult it"

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by dahiyarules
    Any position that does not coincide with your own is an extreme position. The term "extreme position" is very subjective. Many think that I am a "extreme right wing nut." While I think others are extreme "left wing junkies."

    I just think that I am correct about my positions. I am sure others think the same way about their position.

    I am not apologetic for disagreeing with others. I think that you guys are just intellectually feeble. I am sure you think the same way about me.

    So this is the way it keeps going on.
    Sumit is a self procalimed Right Wing Junkie and I'm a self proclaimed Left Wing Nutter but he is still like my younger brother....right sumit :D
    "Mine is a peaceful religion, I will kill you if you insult it"

  17. #17
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    Thumbs up

    Sangwan has raised a very valied and important discussion and it is better not to discuss politics( In extreme sense like Chatala is corrupt or Hooda is bad ). Unbiased healthy discussion about policies of Goverment is, However Should be welcome with open arms.

    Tewatia ji i disagree with ur views of boasting of Big or better Gots. lets not get involved in controversies about GOT here.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by antil-sunpatiya
    Sumit is a self procalimed Right Wing Junkie and I'm a self proclaimed Left Wing Nutter but he is still like my younger brother....right sumit :D
    hehehe!

    I dont think I am a right winger. Infact I dont have wings. hehehehe

  19. #19

    Oh man!.........

    .......My sympathies with you Vinod....................................... :rolleyes:
    ...Wouldn't follow the trodden path, but shall leave a blazing trail!!!...

  20. #20
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    Good point raised Vinod..............but .................GOD bless...............
    It's better to be alone than in a bad company.

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