WORD IMPOSSIBLE SAYS I M POSSIBLE.
Apologising dosent mean that U are wrong & the other is right.....It only means that U value the relationship much more than ur ego.
Col (Retd) Virendra Tavathia
"A person should not be judged by the nature of his/her job, but the manner in which he/she does that".
I am not suggesting the status quo. There is a movement already going on for anti reservation. Join that movement and strengthen that rather than asking for reservation and weakening that movement. Try to unite people for a good cause. Imagine a situation where there is no reservation. People are given help to study and money is gainfully spend to improve the infrastructure in rural areas. It would not come over night, but beginning has to be made.
There are thousands of successful people from the Jat community, and let me tell you, they all reached there without reservation. Look how many officers are there in armed forces from our community, do you think they all got there with reservation.
God helps those who help themselves. If you are looking for some one who will give you every thing what you want, let me assure you, the wait is going to be more than the life time. No help can help a person, unless the person himself/herself is willing to work hard. There is no short cut to success and there is no alternative to hard work. You will still find unsuccessful people in the Jat community even if they are included in reserved categoty. Since Jats in Rajasthan have been included in the reserved category, have they all become prosperous?
Col (Retd) Virendra Tavathia
"A person should not be judged by the nature of his/her job, but the manner in which he/she does that".
I'm Dr. B L Chowdhary from All India Institute of Medical Sciences. I've not joined this institute on the basis of OBC but on my own merits. I was spearheading another camp in AIIMS recently that was pro-reservation for OBC.
I strongly oppose Dr. Tewatias statement that if OBC reservation is implemented then only Jats should go for it. I say that even otherwise also Jats should go for it. They should throw their all might behind this. I often saw him in anti-reservation camp (from Pan-IIT alumni/student side) not very clear about his stand.
I sat on Jantar-Mantar and issued a warning that if 27% quota is not implemented soon then we'll come on street to demand 80% reservation for OBC. Also the concept of creamy layer will soon be applied to remaining 20% forward castes. I feel there are lot of poor people in forward caste whose benefits are stolen by a few rich people over there.
I must request you Jats that I'm also a Jat like you from Rajasthan. Even then I must say that people opposing reservation for Jats are really ignorant of Jat's interest. They do not know what Bharat Mata is. Asli Bharat Mata Shahar me nahin Gaon me basti hai. Plz stop calling these people idealists n all that. They are simply misguiding the Jat Youth.
Welcome Dr Choudhary.
It is really heartening that people from all fields such as Doctors ,scientists ,top beaurocrats ,foreign based soft ware professonals who though didn't take reservation understands the present situation and seeing dark future of our younger generation are advocating that we must safe gard the future of young generation.
We can'nt expect all members of a community to have one view and particularly jats who make every simple issue as a big debate.
I think Dr Tewatia is a all for jat reservation as you can see going in this thread.
There are certain crucial junctures where we have to think and take a proper decision and where unnecessary confusion are deterimental to the interest of community and should be avoided in the best interest of community.
I believe people like BR Ambadekar who knew that deprived sections are not less talented and fought for their just rights were true Idealist than people like Nehru who called himself forward looking but did choose people from his cast except a lucky few when CMs to different statses were to be slected.
.
humen to apno ne mara gairon me kahan dum tha.
kishti hamari vahan doobi jahan paani kum tha.
shaayad rajasthan me paani kum tha. Rajasthan ke jaton ko banavti baaten nahin aati.
A bania has his shop. The rate he decides. if a jat wants to buy its ok otherwise he goes back.
But a Jat tilling his land and doing all cultivation, was/is never able to decide his KEEMAT. To decide his keemat he has to either commit suicide or threaten various agitations.
will ever be a commission to look after his hard work and property?
and till then a kissan should be silent that one day "Messiah" will come from heaven.
But till the time that "Mesiah" comes whether that kissan should be silent or burdened with more fights..... say for equality......say for this and that....????
till then what should that kissan do?
Arun,
Just tell me honestly, your class senior or other talented persons u mentioned, were they dependent on reservation only ?
Listen buddy, i am not against the reservation but against the reservation on the basis of castism. If reservation is there that must be for every community otherwise no reservation. The reservation policy after the independence is still unchanged since the British rule and since last approx 60 years. It needs revision and should be according to the present scenario otherwise it must be demolished. It should be totally on economic basis and rural/urban basis otherwise it is insignificant.
Ok what you think if we Jat's get reservation the poor jats living in villeges and in remore areas will be benefitted. I don't think so. The people who are already having nice life are going to take benefit from that only.
I can understand your feelings and point of views buddy, but you know the Indian system and the reservation doesn't going to help by any means to the poors peoples whether thay are jats or from any other community.
It's better to be alone than in a bad company.
Mr. Vijay
By such ambiguous statements you are going to harm your own community only. Its only majority and power that reviews the status quo. Reservation of OBC is written on wall. Its upto you to break the wall by your head or to break your own head by hitting it on the wall.
[quote=raj2rif;117082] Dear Col Teawatia
Pampered sections..
Though being a senior members i didn't want to tell you as you know more yet if you wish than let me tell you that historically certain sections of populations have been able to skim off opportunities for resons other than talent.Reasons varied from traditional business and influence,social structure to royal patronage and active collobration with foregin rulers .These groups maintained a grip on system and enjoyed with out hard work or talent .Examples are numerous as Mahajans whom turks called the real rulers in thirtenth century,jetmalanis whose grand grand father was a diwan and than son ditched their own state for british and now enjoy ministership without fighting elections some well known examples are infront of us even to mention.
Now let us move to your second point..
While thinking of a big country we can'nt speak in absolute terms .Govt talks in stastical terms where a majority of group falls in one category and avoiding stastical variations that can be avoided .For example while deciding a backward area for industry we find some industries even in barwala or jind but does that make it a forward area and does govt should look for a area where there is absolutely no industry.Govt has to go for stastical evaluations if it wants to do some thing.So we can only talk of in terms of a majority group.
And we from the begining agree that there can be improvement by allowing economical weaker sections from other groups there is no confusion on that but for that shall we even not raise our own demand?What is the rational behind that.
And again I will ask you to change this mindset that all people who got admisson via OBC are less talented than any one else, as you might have noted that present system is not the true reflection of talent .I assure you that you can go tension free to any doctor from reserved category.
Your last observation that if given reservation we will not work hard as things will come easily to us sums up your oppostion to it till now but defies all logic.
Col saheb if one thinks it is so easy than he might be in a fools paradise as there is a stiff competition with in reserved category also where so many people will be applying one who is lax will be eliminated in competition on very first round.
Idea of reservation is not against competition but a machanism where best people from all sections could come up in service of nation in stead of 20 % getting 80% seats.
You might have seen some big buffalows not allowing other to eat SANI in a common KHOR ,reservation is just providing two or three KHORS so that other can also fill their stomach
I hope you will agree and understand.
Gents,
Your anger and frustration is understandable. But I think this thread is loosing its relevance. Mostly, I see same set of people arguing with each other with mostly same old arguments repeatedly. Pardon me, but I don't think most people here have much power to hand you over the reservation. If you want reservation you will have to do some real work, may be hard work too.
I believe you guys wanted some suggestions, right? As for one, I would suggest you guys to do some homework and mathwork. If numbers show that Jats are going to reap most benefit out of reservation then take those data and show to your politicians. You need to work towards it to get it.
If the objective of this thread was to take a poll, I think pulse of majority is towards Yes. To be explicit why don't you take a Yes, No poll. And one more thing, don't expect consensus. Democracy and Consensus are like Saas-Bahu. And I would leave Jats alone for that matter. -
Those with too much free time at hand please continue with "meri taang uuper, teri taang neeche". Sorry for the disruption (taang ardane ke liye)...-
You are free to break your head by hitting it on the wall, but for His sake, dnt excite the younger generation of Jats to do so. As you must have been seeing that inspite of all the desperate efforts like you ignorant/self destructive people or too smart people who are issuing such statements here inspite of knowledge of all the facts that are so apparent, reservation for OBC could not be stopped and it can never be.
Why dnt you see that your own Jat Chaudhary Charan Singh was responsible for that. When he died his bank balance was only Rs. 12000/- only. Out of all the people who are opposing reservation here, whether any body has this bank balance?
He said that "ASLI BHARAT shahar me nahin gaon me rahta hai"
If you increase the purchasing power of villagers then City's will automatically rise. If you make 80% people of India well to do then they will automatically take care of remaining 20% people. They will automatically see that who among these 20% minority people are poor and they will certainly take care of them.
That was a nice idea.
So we can now move on to phase two ....How can we get it..
Let there be suggestions regarding this.
As far as convincing jat political leaders is concerned it will be a waste of time as most of them don't have the guts to raise it.
We can expect better results from organisations like Jat Mahasabha or Kisan unions.
Dear Vijay, see my comments in bold characters.
Just tell me honestly, your class senior or other talented persons u mentioned, were they dependent on reservation only ?
No. they were not. But it did help them to get admission to a reputed institution.
Listen buddy, i am not against the reservation but against the reservation on the basis of castism. If reservation is there that must be for every community otherwise no reservation.
Not only Jats but all people living in the villages should get the reservation. lekin Vijay bhai apni ladai khud ladni hoti hai. that is why I support reservation for the Jats. But if you ask meri dili ichcha, I support reservation for all rural people. Bania, Jat, Brahaman, Chamar jo bhi ho sab ke liye.
It should be totally on economic basis and rural/urban basis otherwise it is insignificant.
If it is made on economic basis, most Jats will get it anyway. I am with you here. But this is practicaly impossible and never going to happen.
Ok what you think if we Jat's get reservation the poor jats living in villeges and in remore areas will be benefitted. I don't think so. The people who are already having nice life are going to take benefit from that only.
I agree with you, some people who really do not need it, will start using it. But then, you can never make a perfect system. kuch toh loophole raha hee jate hain yar. Can you think of a system which is not being misused. but overall many rural people will also get benefit from it. This is what I think.
Reservation to SC/ST was given when they were at the bottom. After 30-40 years OBC realised that upper caste system is same over their head. Downwards also are not at bottom, but their superiors. Like Dr. Tewatia said that a peon OBC is offering water to a man of less competent man from reserved category. Then OBC woke up that no they should not be at bottom but must fight and they won. Then is a turn for Jat. Now Jat is at bottom. Now, had anybody (non-Jat) advocated that they should remain so and continue to fight like this, I would not have been surprised. But to my surprise, Jats here, themselves, advocating this philosophy here, against their own kins-folk, really surprises me that Jat does not know very simple calculations of primary school.
JAT: SOLAH DOONI AATTH
Jat leaders meet Sonia Gandhi
Hindu, India - 36 minutes ago
... These included allowing reservations for Jats at the Central level along the lines of reservation they have been given in Rajasthan. ...
More...
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I and my kids didn't benefit why should you and your kids? If I and my kids had to work hard why can't you and your kids?
Damn, when I am done and now you are talking about reservation? I can't benefit, I won't support.
And yes, I am blindsided with a very little success and in the illusion that I am on the top of the world.
JAT: "GadTumba kha Jya and Meetha Batave".