Jats as the most backward community

[sktewatia]

Dear all I'd like to draw your attention towards the most astonishing facts that though Jats occupied this most fertile land since times unknown at least for thousands of years? yet they could not rule as late as till Surajmal was born. So, I feel that no other backward community can ever exist as compared to Jats. Hence they all from all states (not only from Rajasthan) from Indus to Ganges should be included in OBC. or otherwise proofs should be shown by historians and administrators that how can you count them in forward classes? A community having its hold on the most fertile land of the world for thousands of years is serviving as lootere (in history text books)? they looted n faught with all the most ferrotious looteres like ghazni, allexander, timur, abdali, nadir, british etc.

What bad they did then? had they gone to International Human rights commission that time? or to u historians who are living, eating n pharting in their land right now????

[mann123]

Tewatia saab,

I don't agree with your view point that we are the most backward. I had seen and studied a lot on Jats and their background and don't feel we were backward and den'y to be called from backward class.

We ruled the era's in different times and gained a good reputation whether it is in military, agriculture or it's in IT era.

Jats were hardworking and still they are hardworking but they were not able to retain their worth workings. I feel illiteracy is one of the major factor i counts in jats economical backwardness.

I am totally against the reservation on the caste bases there should only one criteria and that is one's financial condition.

[chhillar]

Let me ask you this, is being Jat a qualification or disqualification when we go out to rest of the communities and when we interact amongst ourselves as well?

[skarmveer]

Tevatia Ji

You are so intelegent and have huge data about Jats. After having all such
details and doing a good job on Jat history why you are saying we are most
backward, please dont say like this.

We are very much reputed cast in the world by every mean.

I am requesting you and other's who are advocating reservation, Please see the position of reservation and the status of those casts who take the benefit of reservation.

One more thing we are writing choudhery with our name is this right we ask
"Bheekh" reservation.

We are able to get our bread with our efforts. And if we are not able to help
our people then why we giving them a Bed Dream of reservation.

Again with follded hand request dont ask any reservation.

We never feel good or respected in the list of "Other Backward Casts".

With Regards
Karmveer Chahal

Dear all I'd like to draw your attention towards the most astonishing facts that though Jats occupied this most fertile land since times unknown at least for thousands of years? yet they could not rule as late as till Surajmal was born. So, I feel that no other backward community can ever exist as compared to Jats. Hence they all from all states (not only from Rajasthan) from Indus to Ganges should be included in OBC. or otherwise proofs should be shown by historians and administrators that how can you count them in forward classes? A community having its hold on the most fertile land of the world for thousands of years is serviving as lootere (in history text books)? they looted n faught with all the most ferrotious looteres like ghazni, allexander, timur, abdali, nadir, british etc.

What bad they did then? had they gone to International Human rights commission that time? or to u historians who are living, eating n pharting in their land right now????

[prashantacmet]

right tewatia ji...... we must be included in most backward community....... When historians are addressing us as looterre & representing an ackward image of Jats in front of world. then it is completely feasible that goverment must take some step to improve the social & financial condition of this community......After all , Jat must get some advantage of being barbaric, illiterate....... Government needs to do something to reform our social status................

Dear all I'd like to draw your attention towards the most astonishing facts that though Jats occupied this most fertile land since times unknown at least for thousands of years? yet they could not rule as late as till Surajmal was born. So, I feel that no other backward community can ever exist as compared to Jats. Hence they all from all states (not only from Rajasthan) from Indus to Ganges should be included in OBC. or otherwise proofs should be shown by historians and administrators that how can you count them in forward classes? A community having its hold on the most fertile land of the world for thousands of years is serviving as lootere (in history text books)? they looted n faught with all the most ferrotious looteres like ghazni, allexander, timur, abdali, nadir, british etc.

What bad they did then? had they gone to International Human rights commission that time? or to u historians who are living, eating n pharting in their land right now????

[sktewatia]

Let me make it clear to you members. My remark is rather sarcastic. We are treated as backward (n not good in history books) and when it comes to reservation issue of OBC then we are made forward. Why this double standard?

However, I'd like to explain about reservation issue that by going in OBC you really dnt become backward (its a political issue, ideaologically I'm also with you that reservation in all forms is bad. But if it is there for other castes then why not for Jats also? You must know that in Rajasthan even Brahmins and Rajputs demanded OBC status). And also even if you are not in OBC as today in Haryana Punjab etc. even then people are really not treating you as forward. You are still lootere for them.

[sktewatia]

I'm quoting from what I've written on another thread by chance it makes relevence here.

Power does not come by magic or fluke. Many Jats till today donot understand why they lost political power after 1990 when (before that) one upon another their Prime Ministers used to come. They became king makers of the country. Whether it was literary Charan Singh or less literate Devi Lal or Tikait all were having sway in Delhi.

I was stung to see when at Agra, Jat Mahasabha function went inconclusive about the reservation issue on OBC. It was participated by Tikait, Visvendra Singh and many other learned/experienced Jats. Half of them were opposing that we Jats donot want to join OBC. And even till today many are there who still do not understand the politics behind this. Jat was the natural leader of 80% rural population of India. It was Jat who was taking this population towards real permanent power to bring them at par with city's population and hence Mandal commission by Charan Singh. The rural people were also supporting Jats whole heartedly in this issue n Jat was also flung to the top by them repeatedly. By truncating Jats from OBC harm is done to both- Jat as well as remaining OBC's.

[raj2rif]

Dear Members,
I think real issue is in understanding the definition of word backward itself. Purely on the economical field historically, we can't call us backward for we did hold most of the land in the areas that we live. We as a community probably not only fed ouselves but also the major part of the country or say substantial part of the country.
I don't agree that we had king makers prior to 1990. Yes we did have couple of leaders who commanded the mass following at the regional level. I would call person like "Jai Prakash Narayan" as the king maker. Probably Ch. Charan Singh, as well as Ch. Devi Lal chose wrong time to come to the helm of affairs. The best chance Ch. Charan Singh had was in 1977 itself, where his party alone was the single largest party with 116 members within the Janta Party. I was surprised to see Mr. Morarji Desai becoming PM when his party had only around 30 odd MP's. In a smart political move, the sections of Janta Party included the CFD of Jagjivan Ram and Mr. H.N. Bahuguna to the Janta Party. Janta Party itself had majority and did not actually need the 28 members of the CFD. The irony was that Jagjivan Ram was equated with Ch. Charan Singh once he joined the Janta Party, who othewise had been part and pacel of the organization during the emergency that motivated the opposition to unite.
If Jats don't have people in forefront, that may be for the two reasons. Firstly, probably current breed of Jat leaders are too greedy and thus have lost faith of the population. No other community can be blamed for that. Ch. Charan Singh and Ch. Devi Lal both left a wonderful legacy, alas that got wasted out.

Secondly, not most communities trust us. The reason is our lack of maturity in crunch situations. When Ch. Charan Singh became the CM of UP, every Jat thought he was the CM. They did annoy other communities, least realizing that purely on Jat votes, no Jat leader can come to the power. I had seen myslef, in Jat majority villages, people of other communities were prevented by Jats from casting their vote.


I think it is the lack of education, that must classify us to be included in the backward classes. I see, some members feel that being OBC is a bad thing or say kind of a degradation of the community. (we are proud people and probably one single quality that we have above all other communities and when we even talk about being included in the OBC, their pride is challanged) Traditionally, we had sided with Brahmins and other communities and did follow the untouchability towards the then lower castes. These things had been taught to us in past and may be are still being taught in the remote areas. I think this could be the reason of Jat Mahasabha not being able to agree on this issue.

A few words about Mr. Tikait. I think the Kisan movement under the leadership of Mr. Tikait took of brilliantly. To the best of my knowledge the brain behind the movement was that of Retiered Judge Shri Mahavir Singh Ji. What I heard that, once the popularity reached its peak, Mr. Tikait himself became larger than the organization and thus many intellectuals left the Kisan Union. It would have been ideal to keep the Kisan Union as a political organization rather than keeping it non-political. That would have brought not only Jats but also other rural community people to the center of power.
I personally believe that to make a change one has to graduate to be at the center of power, where he/she can make decisions that chage the fortunes of the nations and the communities.

[sktewatia]

Yes, we are really backward if donot join other backward classes! We are really backward if we dont understand this political move of VP Singh! Politics is too simple a thing. If you go into ideologies while discussing politics, then you are really backward! even if you are not then politics will make you backward!
Politics is a power game where there is no space for ideologies. Ideologies should be discussed aside.

I said that reservation in every form is deterimental to the whole mass but when others are doing and gaining fruites of it then why should we people be lost in idealism.

Even when we were lost in idealism to counter Ghazni (when all champions of Hinduism were sleeping after the loot of Somnath temple) where is your history Col Sahb? Not even a single word is taught about Jats in history before Surajmal or little earlier! Is it the idealism or politics in history?

where does your forwardness go when a Jat as a peon offers water to a less competent person from reserved category?

[sktewatia]

Justice Mahavir Singh was very dear to me and I was very much present over there when Tikait was on India Gate. Justice was very close to me n visited my home at Palwal many times. When as a young chap I used to organize functions in the memory of Ch. Charan Singh, as President of All India Yuva Grameen Sabha, However, the name giver was Ch. Charan Singh himself of this organisation.

But I feel that though leaders are great but politics is phenomenon. where no merits of education or lack of it counts, its only the political foresifgtedness that matters.

Ch. Charan Singh, Devi Lal, Tikait etc. no comaparison at at all is there regarding their qualification, n family background.

But really they were aal king makers, whY?????

A political phenomenon was taking shape during that period. It was a vote politics and charan singh was heading this vote bank of 80% rural population. Its natural that in vote politics, votes only are going to win. If we are shrouded in a mystery that our education will lead us somewhere, we are sadly mistaken. We have all education but if we do not understand this politics then we are lost in blue, whatever brave or educated we are. And if we understand it then even if we are illiterate, we definitely win.


I was sick of hearing that Charan Singh was so literate n all that and Devi Lal/Tikait was not so n so, there is no comparison. But in politics have seen any qualification to fight elections? And if so then Charan Singh was not very educated then Indira Gandhi? Whether his son today is not more educated than her sons? But here I fail to understand whether we are giving exams of Primary/secondary/master/bravery education? Its nothing there its exam of politics. where no ideologies work.

[sktewatia]

I wonder here, whether people on Jatland still are not aware of this politics? Afterall we among ourselves have to understand. Our decisions affect us equally. But do we really regret that Rajasthan Jats did a mistake while coming into OBC? After all whatever history we have in modern text books of India (viz. Surajmal etc. whom we daily sing because we have no other option) were from Rajasthan only.

[sktewatia]

There is no single Jat raja worth its name in Indian history Text Books, comparable to Surajmal???? And we all other forward Jats from all other forward states are till today singing the songs of this Raja from a backward Jat state!! Where has gone the forwardness of other Jats from other states and till today their forwardness is depicted in history as lootere. N these forward Jats are helpless!!

[sktewatia]

Good knowledge Col. Sahb

I really appreciate you. The real worth, however, of Chaudhary Charan (more than his education) lied in uniting all Kissan/rural communities of India. Aaj hum logon ko ye bata rahe hain ki bhai tum bhi Jat ho hamari tarah aur vo sun nahin rahe hain. Us samay aalam ye tha ki vo sub bata rahe the ki bhai hum bhi Jat hain tumhari tarah aur hum sun nahin rahe the!

[raj2rif]

Yes, we are really backward if donot join other backward classes! We are really backward if we dont understand this political move of VP Singh! Politics is too simple a thing. If you go into ideologies while discussing politics, then you are really backward! even if you are not then politics will make you backward!
Politics is a power game where there is no space for ideologies. Ideologies should be discussed aside.

I said that reservation in every form is deterimental to the whole mass but when others are doing and gaining fruites of it then why should we people be lost in idealism.

Even when we were lost in idealism to counter Ghazni (when all champions of Hinduism were sleeping after the loot of Somnath temple) where is your history Col Sahb? Not even a single word is taught about Jats in history before Surajmal or little earlier! Is it the idealism or politics in history?

where does your forwardness go when a Jat as a peon offers water to a less competent person from reserved category?

Dear Dr. Sahab,
Firstly the issue to be discussed is about whether or not Jats should accept the OBC status? I think by talking about the history, we may be digressing from the subject.
Regarding the history. I know it is annoying for many of us, that not even a single name comes up in history books from our community in the battles fought in the past. Well, when you talk about history, probably it is not possible for a historian to name every single person who fights the war. There are numerous soldiers who go into an assault. Many of them don't return. While the roll of honor contains every one's name, not all names figure out in the history books of the nations. Surely they do figure out on the history of the battalions. If not many Jat names are there in history who fought with aggressors in the past centuries, it is mainly because not many of them were the kings. Those who were, their names do figure in the history. You have already mentioned Raja Surajmal and Ranjit Singh.
I can sense your anger, about Jats of Haryana and UP not agreeing to be part of the OBC, but anger solves no problem. I am sure if reasoned out with forceful and analytical arguments, Jat Mahasabha may accept it. The question is how to do it. You have mentioned that you had organized the Youth wing of jats in past. That is the best plateform for you to air your views with the Jat Mahasabha. The question is majority of people need to be convinced. We just can't have a philosophy of " either my way or no way". We are in a democratic set up and need to follow the procedure.
I am sure, if we can arrive at a most suitable and agreeable definition of backwardness, most of us would be able to agree on one point.
Since, we all think, and most people do believe, that the only criteria for reservation should be economic, then why cry for reservation based on caste and religion. It may be a good idea to oppose the current reservation policy, rather than propogate to get the OBC status. I know with a lot of communities being in OBC status, it would be difficult, but then all good things are difficult to achieve.

[sktewatia]

its a single sentece question n answere "whether rajasthan Jats did good or bad, while getting into reservation?"

[sktewatia]

Crime rate of rajasthan/haryana/punjab jats is zero but of UP Jats its highest among Jats? Why? are they Jobless or still contemplating idealism?

[raj2rif]

Crime rate of rajasthan/haryana/punjab jats is zero but of UP Jats its highest among Jats? Why? are they Jobless or still contemplating idealism?

Dear Dr. Sahab,
Your post is not understood.
I don't know what relevence this statement has with the topic that we are discussing?
Further it would be an ideal situation to have a 0% cirme rate among our community be it Rajasthan, UP, Haryana or Punjab and even MP (there are some in MP also). However your statement probably may fall short of evidence while dividing the community on the basis of crime rate, within the different states.

[raj2rif]

its a single sentece question n answere "whether rajasthan Jats did good or bad, while getting into reservation?"

Dear Dr. Sahab,

The answer to your question depends on the perception of the people. Traditionally we the Jat Community had been against reservation, based on the caste and religion. If that be so, the answer is "NO".

However, there is a saying, that if you can't compete then join the competition. If that be so, the answer is "YES".

The question is that of perception. Many things change due the demography of the area. While Jats may be a majority community in Haryana, it is minority community in most of the central, and south indian states. Demography of the area plays a big role in politics and political decision making. You just can't have a same yard stick for different demographic areas. Each situation is different. For finding a lasting solution to any problem, specific treatment and brain storming needs to be done.

Reservation of any kind in any society, is not good for the development of any nation specially if it is based on the caste system. That is the truth. Whether or not we have the will to change it, is another question. Late Mr. R.K. Hegde as the CM of Karnataka did try a very innovative solution, by giving the idea of including every single person in the reservation system.
The idea is great and can be implemented. You have every one qualify for reservation (100%) population based on the caste. Then priorities is based on the economic strength of the family that person comes from.

In any situation the competence of the individual should not be compromised, for if we have mediocre people making decisoins or performing surgeries or desigining bridges, we would have mediocre results only.

I have tried to answer your single question in best possible manner that I can within the constraints of time. I hope it would help a little.

[captkalkal]

Dear Friends,

I do remember the Anti-Mandal days when I was just a student of 9th class
in Jat HMAS High School,Rohtak,as a teenager we were only aware of the thing that reservation is only given to a selective few to 'uplift' their caste from 'poor' status.We opposed that thing as we were all preparing for Medical/Engg entrance and we thought that our survival was under threat.

But somehow I realise that the same logic for opposing reservation on caste basis is applicable now also !! I don't know much about the glorious history of Jats but I do know that presently if not a majority but atleast 50% Jats are doing well in all spheres of life.

It is again not a question of false pride of being from a so called 'upper caste' but the fact remains that Jats have been traditionally opposed to reservation on caste basis.It will be morally wrong to demand the same when it comes to our benefit. If I'm correct Ch Devilal was 'dismissed' of the Vice PM ship on the same issue (Being the only Senior Minister in history to be dismissed in this fashion).He never said that Jats should be included in OBC's.

We all know that caste based res has only brought jobs to a selective few in SC's/BC's and OBC's, so why get after the 'Mrigtrishna' again when the upliftment of caste as a whole is not assured . The question here is whether the Bechara Jamindar who lives in village will get the benifit of this sort of reservation ? I think it will be you and me who will enjoy the cream..........

To cut it short reservation should be based on Economic basis only.

[sktewatia]

Yes Sir

I do agree with you as I've always been saying that reservation in any form is deterimental to the overall merit in country. However, there is need to bring equality also of various masses, tribes and people of the country. Based on certain such arguments and having political interest behind politicians started reservation policies first giving it to Sc and ST peole and later to OBC people in India. I appreciate that Jats were really like you and first opposing it tooth and nail. Even, I do the same. Even Rajasthan Jats did the same. But when they found that its not possible to stop this wave as they have no power as compared to 80% other backward category then Rajasthan Jats found it better to join in OBC. Its not that other OBC and forward classes easily let them do so. They had to fight very hard for that.

Question here is "Reservation for OBC can not be stopped rather it is almost implemented, now please tell me whether Jats should join it or not? Which way the interests of Jats are there whether in OBC or remaining in forward classes and giving and adopting idealist methods in the interest of country and other forward classes etc. at the cost of their self interests? Though it is again very much clear that he is nowhere dear to forward classes also."