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Thread: Jats as the most backward community

  1. #121
    Hi,

    I think Jats should get reservation in states and centre.Just see the change in yadavs for last 15-20 years. due to reservation now they have far above the jats especially in UP. every other office in UP is yadav today.

    mulayam singh yadav is fully supporting their cause, doin g everything for upliftmnet of his community.

    Mulyam singh is the person who has taken a stay from superem court reagading reservation of jats at central level.

    so I think we need a leader like Mulyam singh in our community.

    few days back I read one news on a site, there was one yadav soldier who was killed in kashmir , so state mineter of UP balram yadav personally went to his home and gave 20 lack rupees.

    I dont know do we follow a same thing in haryana..........


    Regards
    Jitender
    'Anything is Possible '

    ' Just do it '

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkumar View Post
    Reservation or no reservation, Jats will never be able to get the benefit of jobs unless they get political power. Think for a moment all Jats under OBC. This will put them in the catagory of Yadavs in UP. All OBCs being equal, Yadavs will walk away with the cake...aur Jat dekhte rah jayenge... Reservation in Haryana will amount to less Jats getting the jobs as there will be upper limit on their share and even Jat CMs won't be able to help them after that...

    RK^2
    RKji, I'm from Hanumangarh district of Rajasthan. We Jats are in reservation there. You perhaps do not know the rules of reservation. Upper limit on reservation does not mean that 80% OBC will be contained in 27% jobs. Otherwise OBC's are not fools to aspire for it. IAS etc. me jitne Jat without reservation ke aate the vo to karib karib abhi bhi aate hain. Saath me reservation ki vajah se aur Jat bhi aate hain. Total number due to reservation has increased. So, Haryana Jats dnt have to worry on that account.

    Regarding, political power, I'd state that you have two choices

    1. Join remaining 20% people among whom you are the most backward. And these people inspite of your great ideals never let you compete with them by hook or crook. They are till today openly calling you lootere n you are helpless in your fight against them.

    2. Join 80% people among whom you are the most forward. In vote bank politics these 80% people do have power that is very much visible. Inspite of all agitation, burning of students, strike by doctors and all other ideal and forward people including Jats no government right from Charan Singh, VP Singh, Left, DMK, Congress etc. could stop them and will never be able to stop them in future also.

    Which way is political power n which way you can grab it?

    Regarding your fear about Jats with Yadavs: I'd say the facts are otherwise. When Jat and Yadavs were togather then Jats only and not Yadavs held the power. Let it be Charan Singh or Devi Lal....

    Jats rather became powerless when they were shunted out from this 80% mass by VP Singh. After that only Yadavs started gaining power. Thats natural also because without Jats, Yadavs are the most forward caste in OBC. If Jats also join it they will again leave Yadavs behind.

  3. #123
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    Reservation in OBC is not BHEEKH but our RIGHT

    We Jats in Rajasthan did not get this reservation in sympathy or bheekh. We had to fight hard for it n we got it as our right. I'd like tell those people who consider that coming in OBC will lower the Jat dignity that they under misconception.

    When reservation was given to SC/ST, a Jat like tribe Meena in Rajasthan got it and fully reaped the fruites of it. They being the most forward among other STs were most benefitted. Though Jats and other tribes like Gujar/Yadav etc. were jealous of them but Jats never demanded that they should also be included in ST.

    But now, here, its not 20% forward castes giving reservation to 80% OBC. No forward castes including some of the Jats wanted it but could not stop them. These people are getting their right due to their strength. And soon these 80% people will start giving 20% forward people reservation based on their economic status. Because really poor people among forward need it. Among forward perhaps only a top few so far had been enjoying most the benefits of power, job, business etc. Aur yadi aisa hua, to Jat to aur bhi buri tarah se mare jayenge.

  4. #124
    [ [/quote]

    Dear Mr. Kharab,

    You are now mixing the issue of reservation with corruption. Both are evil.
    If the ward of an influential person gets the job as against a deserving candidate for reasons other than talent, than that is an unfair level of playing field. The idea should be to remove these things and make it a level field, rather than creating further unlevel fields, which is exactly what reservation is doing.

    Further, these influential people are not only in the upper castes or on the basis of castes. Hence any thing based on caste or religion is not good for the society. If you want to promote some one who is less fortunate than others, then promote him by giving him facilities that matches his competitors. That is a good service.

    Unfortunately we don't see the wrong things done by many of our kids. I had seen many of my collegues never went to attend the classes, even though their parents had sent them for that purpose. Is system responsible for their failure? Is any influential person responsible for their failure. The most unfortunate part is that more often than not, we try and find some excuses for our own failures. But that is a different subject all together. Let us concentrate on reservations.


    Reservation was started for first 10 years as per the constitution. Bharat mata ko loot sake to loot lo, that is what most people are doing.
    I have seen people in all walks of life who don't like corruption, but they do it all the time themselves. Each posting is sold, where one can make under the table money. Some of them are even controlled directly by the CMs. We don't like a politician who has not helped us get undue advantage. The logic given is, since all are doing it, I must do it too. But does that make the wrong thing right? And then why crib about corruption? On the first opportunity we want to become part of it. As I had written earlier,
    we all want to follow the path of least resistance. It is easy to get jats included in OBC rather than oppose reservation as a concept.





    .[/quote]


    Dear Col Tewatia

    It will take some time but we will make you see the logic both on ethical ground and on practical need base.

    You start that Iam mixing reservation with corruption and than move on that reservation is a evil and creates unequal field for players and than end with quote that many of our faults are our own and every body is engaged in corruption.....

    You didn't read my posts as I am highlighting the unequal field available for our mainly rural community as compared to other city groups and who get tutorials coaching electricity and other facilities and operate on a better ground.

    So how can you say that reservation is akin to giving unequal ground to them.

    And groups who were also rural like gujjar yadav saini are alredy on a safe ground that leaves..

    Only our younger jat generation on an unequal ground.

    Don't you have some moral sympathy for unjustice done to them also.

    You say that give them rural facilities finance rural universities etc..etc...

    But I ask you shall present generation suffer getting unemployed and legging behind in race of life till govt fulfills its obligation.

    Are you suggesting that they should suffer for a fault of govt.
    Would it have not been appropriate to give them reservation till the govt., put them on equal footing....
    Give me reply if you can...

    I would say that your stand is not practically harmful to the future of our coming generation but it is morally unethical too.

    You don't mind and don't suggest any remedy when 20% corner 80% seats
    beacuse of unequal ground via urban facilities but reminds us of talent loss when some other remedies are suggested to this deprived group via reservation.

    Is it really talent loss? ,I afraid no,many of these rural young will beat them throughly if given equal chance which are not there and till they are provided they must be given some sort of protection.

    Tewatia ji I don't know who gave you hint that getting reservation for jats is a path of least resistance, to the contrary it is thoughest fight that is not sure to be won.

    I am saying this with single objective that there should be no confusion and ambiguity in our stand where future of our coming geneation is at stake.

    If we are wrong we will certainly follow you.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by jitender_singh View Post
    Hi,

    I think Jats should get reservation in states and centre.Just see the change in yadavs for last 15-20 years. due to reservation now they have far above the jats especially in UP. every other office in UP is yadav today.

    mulayam singh yadav is fully supporting their cause, doin g everything for upliftmnet of his community.

    Mulyam singh is the person who has taken a stay from superem court reagading reservation of jats at central level.

    so I think we need a leader like Mulyam singh in our community.

    few days back I read one news on a site, there was one yadav soldier who was killed in kashmir , so state mineter of UP balram yadav personally went to his home and gave 20 lack rupees.

    I dont know do we follow a same thing in haryana..........


    Regards
    Jitender
    Hamare yahan Mathura me Ek kahawat hoti hai ki "Jat ko mare Jat ya Mare Kartar"

    I'm really very surprised that even Jats are refusing the reservation as OBC here.

    I expected the senior members here to guide the younger generation properly. When they are preparing for some competition they are supposed to face least resistence only except for their competition. What about advising this (theory of greater resistence) to city guys of other forward castes and other guys from reservation with whom village jat youth is pitched for competition? The greater resistence a Jat youth can face when he is capable of doing some thing, at least till he stands on his own legs?

  6. #126
    what i feel is we don't need any reservation and even i am and active member of YOUTH FOR EQUALITY. The energy we are wasting to take reservation must be utilized in abolishing reservation in the country. but certainly we need good leaders to provide our community the infrastructure to compete. if there is reservation that must be on ones financial condition and must not because of the caste.

    Take example of BANIA's they are not reserved but still they are financial sound and they will be.

    I remember the quote of one of my village bania

    "Unpad Jat pathar or padha likha Bhagwan"

    Iska matlab kaad liyo bhaioo nahee samaj me aawee to bata diyo.
    -Virender M.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by sktewatia View Post
    Let me make it clear to you members. My remark is rather sarcastic. We are treated as backward (n not good in history books) and when it comes to reservation issue of OBC then we are made forward. Why this double standard?

    However, I'd like to explain about reservation issue that by going in OBC you really dnt become backward (its a political issue, ideaologically I'm also with you that reservation in all forms is bad. But if it is there for other castes then why not for Jats also? You must know that in Rajasthan even Brahmins and Rajputs demanded OBC status). And also even if you are not in OBC as today in Haryana Punjab etc. even then people are really not treating you as forward. You are still lootere for them.
    OBC status was originally based on your economic status. Jats might have not ruled but because of being land owners they have always been well to do. As a result of that Jats have always enjoyed economic independence and a higher social status that comes along with that. The OBC's were at the bottom when it came to their economic status. This economic status somehow also lead to their lower social status over the years.

    However i do agree with you that the rest of the country does view the JATS as illiterate, uneducated, rude and backward people. Many a times ppl have expressed surprise upon learing that i am JAT and from Haryana. Their usual reaction is "you don't look or act like a JAT" or "hey can you yell and swear" in Haryanvi. It does put me off because of how we are stereotyped. But it is a fact as to how the outside world views us as a community.
    Last edited by amitchhikara; September 27th, 2006 at 08:37 AM.

  8. #128
    Col. Saheb you said "To me working hard at the opportune time is also working smart." and I don't derate that. I think many people are trying to say the same. This may be the "opportune time".

    Expanding a bit on hard work. Hard work alone "may" not be sufficient for an opportunity to realize. One should also be able to use and choose from the best available tools to be successful. For instance, if one were to send to fight an enemy and given a choice between AK47 and Lathi, which one, one would pick? The one requires less and smart work or hard work?

    Rowdy kids is a different topic. But talking of them, well, they make bad choices due to apparent reasons. By the time they realize that they've lost very important part of their life, some give up and blame the system. I have also seen some of them didn't give up and took different career path and are very successful, in fact, far more than those who got 90-100% marks in book exams. I have had very close and extremely rowdy friends whom lie in both sides of fence. To me that is just a matter of choice.

  9. #129

    why in obc list

    Tewatia Sir ,
    Including in the obc list does not means solution to our problems the only solution is to be united togethor and fight bravely with all those who are root cause of our problems
    Quote Originally Posted by sktewatia View Post
    Dear all I'd like to draw your attention towards the most astonishing facts that though Jats occupied this most fertile land since times unknown at least for thousands of years? yet they could not rule as late as till Surajmal was born. So, I feel that no other backward community can ever exist as compared to Jats. Hence they all from all states (not only from Rajasthan) from Indus to Ganges should be included in OBC. or otherwise proofs should be shown by historians and administrators that how can you count them in forward classes? A community having its hold on the most fertile land of the world for thousands of years is serviving as lootere (in history text books)? they looted n faught with all the most ferrotious looteres like ghazni, allexander, timur, abdali, nadir, british etc.

    What bad they did then? had they gone to International Human rights commission that time? or to u historians who are living, eating n pharting in their land right now????

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by sahasthegreat View Post
    Tewatia Sir ,
    Including in the obc list does not means solution to our problems the only solution is to be united togethor and fight bravely with all those who are root cause of our problems
    Yes, thats the punch line, it is almost like a motto . . . we need to collectively understand our problems and learn to solve them (collectively). We must grow as a society.

  11. #131
    I would like to point out the rationale behind reservation, specifically in Rajasthan.

    The foremost motive was that reservations had started applying to seats in panchayati raj institutions. The Jat reservation campaign in Rajasthan was primarily motivated by the desire of our far sighted Jat leaders to ensure that in our panchayats where Jat electorate held a majority, the presidentship was not out of their reach because it was reserved for OBCs.

    To really understand this rationale (for Rajasthan, atleast) one has to go back in time and read about Marwar Kisan Sabha in particular.

    However, I do agree with Aarti and Sahas, solutions are only possible when we are united.

  12. #132

    So Imporant

    Quote Originally Posted by mirdha View Post
    I would like to point out the rationale behind reservation, specifically in Rajasthan.

    The foremost motive was that reservations had started applying to seats in panchayati raj institutions. The Jat reservation campaign in Rajasthan was primarily motivated by the desire of our far sighted Jat leaders to ensure that in our panchayats where Jat electorate held a majority, the presidentship was not out of their reach because it was reserved for OBCs.

    To really understand this rationale (for Rajasthan, atleast) one has to go back in time and read about Marwar Kisan Sabha in particular.

    However, I do agree with Aarti and Sahas, solutions are only possible when we are united.
    Quote Originally Posted by aarti View Post
    Yes, thats the punch line, it is almost like a motto . . . we need to collectively understand our problems and learn to solve them (collectively). We must grow as a society.

    Yes we have to take a collective decision in the best interest of our community.We should always strive to find a common ground where we all have one voice.

  13. #133

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by sahasthegreat View Post
    Tewatia Sir ,
    Including in the obc list does not means solution to our problems the only solution is to be united togethor and fight bravely with all those who are root cause of our problems

    That's the point. I don't know why people think that after geting the reservation we are going to be superior.

    SC/ST people are enjoying the reservation since last 50 years. How many of then are at top if we calculate the %age of SC/ST people in India. Hardly 10% have/had the benefit of the reservation and other 90% are still there at the same level as they were 50 years ago. Similar thing is going to happen with us.

    We should think about that how we can grow as a community but not as individuals crying for the reservation for ourselves.
    It's better to be alone than in a bad company.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by vijay View Post
    That's the point. I don't know why people think that after geting the reservation we are going to be superior.

    SC/ST people are enjoying the reservation since last 50 years. How many of then are at top if we calculate the %age of SC/ST people in India. Hardly 10% have/had the benefit of the reservation and other 90% are still there at the same level as they were 50 years ago. Similar thing is going to happen with us.

    We should think about that how we can grow as a community but not as individuals crying for the reservation for ourselves.
    vijay

    I didn't reply to you as I read your comment long back on reservation ......
    Quote Vijay...

    We jats demanded reservation in Rajasthan but are opposing it here Is it not a double standard..

    So I thought that you understand the need of level laying field for jats as all similar group are already there.

    I request you to please go through all posts and if you find any fault in providing the same level ground to our younger generation as other similar groups have ,than do explain.

    And please understand that it is not the matter of superiority or inferiority but ensuring a fair chance to young people, for a chance in life.

    And what you say that reservation didn't help Sc Sts

    Vijay just give me answer had it not been this reservation would you have seen this much sc st officers whether 10 20 or 30%

    To clear concepts many of them or infact most of these officers would have been doing menial jobs in houces of people where their ancesstors suffered for ages.

    Have you studied the logarmathic graphs in developmental economics..

    There is a time period by which curve moves slowly but once that critical stage is achieved the curve moves exponentialy..that stage is approaching fast...

    And yes those people who were so much psychologicaly depressed that they used to leave the path from where some brahman used to come, are now ruling states like UP you know why and how.....

    All these SC ST gazetted officers with new found confidence formed an organisation which later metamorphosed in to DS-4 and then bahujan Samaj party which turned the social power equation upside down in its rule.

    Cheers

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by mirdha View Post
    The foremost motive was that reservations had started applying to seats in panchayati raj institutions. The Jat reservation campaign in Rajasthan was primarily motivated by the desire of our far sighted Jat leaders to ensure that in our panchayats where Jat electorate held a majority, the presidentship was not out of their reach because it was reserved for OBCs.



    Yes Mirdha ji, I agree with you. This is the crux of the matter.

    I also agree that it’s not a matter for superiority or inferiority. It’s a question all about upward graph for the community as a whole over a region. We cannot see this issue of reservation in light of individual states or areas.

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by vijay View Post
    That's the point. I don't know why people think that after geting the reservation we are going to be superior.

    SC/ST people are enjoying the reservation since last 50 years. How many of then are at top if we calculate the %age of SC/ST people in India. Hardly 10% have/had the benefit of the reservation and other 90% are still there at the same level as they were 50 years ago. Similar thing is going to happen with us.

    We should think about that how we can grow as a community but not as individuals crying for the reservation for ourselves.
    Vijaiji

    I bit differ from you here. Its upto the SC/ST people to decide whether they've benefitted or not. However, I'm sure that their answere will be different from you. Thats why they are continuing it after every 10 years. And they will continue it as long as they can, I'm sure. Because, certainly they get benefit. You are from Rajasthan? Have you not seen Meenas over there rising in Govt. reserved posts? And not only there but everywhere in country they are known, now. Is it not due to the reservation?

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by aarti View Post
    Yes, thats the punch line, it is almost like a motto . . . we need to collectively understand our problems and learn to solve them (collectively). We must grow as a society.
    Yes, I agree with Morji and Artiji. Though reservation is not the solution of all problems but right now its one of the most crucial ones. Have you seen news paper today-Moili's report, its silent about creamy layer in OBC.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by sktewatia View Post
    Vijaiji

    I bit differ from you here. Its upto the SC/ST people to decide whether they've benefitted or not. However, I'm sure that their answere will be different from you. Thats why they are continuing it after every 10 years. And they will continue it as long as they can, I'm sure. Because, certainly they get benefit. You are from Rajasthan? Have you not seen Meenas over there rising in Govt. reserved posts? And not only there but everywhere in country they are known, now. Is it not due to the reservation?

    Well Tewatia Sir,

    I am not against jat community but i am fond of the talent. A person having more than 70% marks is rejected and a person having 35% marks is selected. Can they do justice for that job ?

    People thinks that we jats are not gud in academic scenario so u want to send the message that what we are and what talent we have is just due to reservation only otherwise we can't survive.

    I know how Meena's in Rajasthan rise and what is there working style ?
    It's better to be alone than in a bad company.

  19. #139
    Vijay

    In scientific experiments to evaluate results we go for standardization of conditions .

    Like at temp...25c

    pressure .....1 atmosphere etc,,.

    Why because the results differ with change of conditionds as temp pressure humidity etc..

    If two persons are having the same facilities than we can say one is talented than other.

    But to evaluate a rural boy where you hardly get electricity poor teachers no coaching with a well pampered city boy and declare simply on the basis percentage of no. that this is talented and this is not, will be unjustified.

    What we say that both should have level playing field and till that is provided by Govt. there should be some safegaurd for disadvantaged section.

    As economic criterion can easily be manoured and not under govt scheme of things we should not let our people suffer for no fault of theirs.

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by vijay View Post
    Well Tewatia Sir,

    I am not against jat community but i am fond of the talent. A person having more than 70% marks is rejected and a person having 35% marks is selected. Can they do justice for that job ?

    People thinks that we jats are not gud in academic scenario so u want to send the message that what we are and what talent we have is just due to reservation only otherwise we can't survive.

    I know how Meena's in Rajasthan rise and what is there working style ?
    You are perhaps not acquainted with the latest current affairs. Bikaner(Rajasthan) kissans are threatening to jump from water tank, and DCP Meena over there is buying nets, lest Jats actually do it!

    They are not demanding there Basanti but their right. Please read todays HT.

    I feel that Haryana/Punjab/abroad Jats are still shrouded in mystery!!!! like you!! and Dharmender!!!

    They really do not know the helm of affairs, whats happenning with Jat kissans over there!

    living in beautiful compatments, n issuing great statements on morality from there is very easy.

    Have you ever thought of suicides that kissans are doing in other states???

    I challenge all these idealist people that whether they have a courage to issue any statement that Charan Singh was not idealist?????

    then why Charan Singh went for this Mandal Commission?????

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