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  1. #1
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    Jats as the most backward community

    Dear all I'd like to draw your attention towards the most astonishing facts that though Jats occupied this most fertile land since times unknown at least for thousands of years? yet they could not rule as late as till Surajmal was born. So, I feel that no other backward community can ever exist as compared to Jats. Hence they all from all states (not only from Rajasthan) from Indus to Ganges should be included in OBC. or otherwise proofs should be shown by historians and administrators that how can you count them in forward classes? A community having its hold on the most fertile land of the world for thousands of years is serviving as lootere (in history text books)? they looted n faught with all the most ferrotious looteres like ghazni, allexander, timur, abdali, nadir, british etc.

    What bad they did then? had they gone to International Human rights commission that time? or to u historians who are living, eating n pharting in their land right now????

  2. #2
    Tewatia saab,

    I don't agree with your view point that we are the most backward. I had seen and studied a lot on Jats and their background and don't feel we were backward and den'y to be called from backward class.

    We ruled the era's in different times and gained a good reputation whether it is in military, agriculture or it's in IT era.

    Jats were hardworking and still they are hardworking but they were not able to retain their worth workings. I feel illiteracy is one of the major factor i counts in jats economical backwardness.

    I am totally against the reservation on the caste bases there should only one criteria and that is one's financial condition.
    -Virender M.

  3. #3
    Let me ask you this, is being Jat a qualification or disqualification when we go out to rest of the communities and when we interact amongst ourselves as well?
    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds... Albert Einstien

  4. #4
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    I would not have stressed this issue to this extent. But we are most forward in OBC and most backward in forward classes. So, among all the castes in India this issue is most vital for Jat.
    Last edited by sktewatia; September 15th, 2006 at 02:55 PM.

  5. #5
    Tevatia Ji

    You are so intelegent and have huge data about Jats. After having all such
    details and doing a good job on Jat history why you are saying we are most
    backward, please dont say like this.

    We are very much reputed cast in the world by every mean.

    I am requesting you and other's who are advocating reservation, Please see the position of reservation and the status of those casts who take the benefit of reservation.

    One more thing we are writing choudhery with our name is this right we ask
    "Bheekh" reservation.

    We are able to get our bread with our efforts. And if we are not able to help
    our people then why we giving them a Bed Dream of reservation.

    Again with follded hand request dont ask any reservation.

    We never feel good or respected in the list of "Other Backward Casts".

    With Regards
    Karmveer Chahal

    Quote Originally Posted by sktewatia View Post
    Dear all I'd like to draw your attention towards the most astonishing facts that though Jats occupied this most fertile land since times unknown at least for thousands of years? yet they could not rule as late as till Surajmal was born. So, I feel that no other backward community can ever exist as compared to Jats. Hence they all from all states (not only from Rajasthan) from Indus to Ganges should be included in OBC. or otherwise proofs should be shown by historians and administrators that how can you count them in forward classes? A community having its hold on the most fertile land of the world for thousands of years is serviving as lootere (in history text books)? they looted n faught with all the most ferrotious looteres like ghazni, allexander, timur, abdali, nadir, british etc.

    What bad they did then? had they gone to International Human rights commission that time? or to u historians who are living, eating n pharting in their land right now????

  6. #6
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    Let me make it clear to you members. My remark is rather sarcastic. We are treated as backward (n not good in history books) and when it comes to reservation issue of OBC then we are made forward. Why this double standard?

    However, I'd like to explain about reservation issue that by going in OBC you really dnt become backward (its a political issue, ideaologically I'm also with you that reservation in all forms is bad. But if it is there for other castes then why not for Jats also? You must know that in Rajasthan even Brahmins and Rajputs demanded OBC status). And also even if you are not in OBC as today in Haryana Punjab etc. even then people are really not treating you as forward. You are still lootere for them.

  7. #7
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    I'm quoting from what I've written on another thread by chance it makes relevence here.

    Power does not come by magic or fluke. Many Jats till today donot understand why they lost political power after 1990 when (before that) one upon another their Prime Ministers used to come. They became king makers of the country. Whether it was literary Charan Singh or less literate Devi Lal or Tikait all were having sway in Delhi.

    I was stung to see when at Agra, Jat Mahasabha function went inconclusive about the reservation issue on OBC. It was participated by Tikait, Visvendra Singh and many other learned/experienced Jats. Half of them were opposing that we Jats donot want to join OBC. And even till today many are there who still do not understand the politics behind this. Jat was the natural leader of 80% rural population of India. It was Jat who was taking this population towards real permanent power to bring them at par with city's population and hence Mandal commission by Charan Singh. The rural people were also supporting Jats whole heartedly in this issue n Jat was also flung to the top by them repeatedly. By truncating Jats from OBC harm is done to both- Jat as well as remaining OBC's.

  8. #8

    Are We Really Backward?

    Dear Members,
    I think real issue is in understanding the definition of word backward itself. Purely on the economical field historically, we can't call us backward for we did hold most of the land in the areas that we live. We as a community probably not only fed ouselves but also the major part of the country or say substantial part of the country.
    I don't agree that we had king makers prior to 1990. Yes we did have couple of leaders who commanded the mass following at the regional level. I would call person like "Jai Prakash Narayan" as the king maker. Probably Ch. Charan Singh, as well as Ch. Devi Lal chose wrong time to come to the helm of affairs. The best chance Ch. Charan Singh had was in 1977 itself, where his party alone was the single largest party with 116 members within the Janta Party. I was surprised to see Mr. Morarji Desai becoming PM when his party had only around 30 odd MP's. In a smart political move, the sections of Janta Party included the CFD of Jagjivan Ram and Mr. H.N. Bahuguna to the Janta Party. Janta Party itself had majority and did not actually need the 28 members of the CFD. The irony was that Jagjivan Ram was equated with Ch. Charan Singh once he joined the Janta Party, who othewise had been part and pacel of the organization during the emergency that motivated the opposition to unite.
    If Jats don't have people in forefront, that may be for the two reasons. Firstly, probably current breed of Jat leaders are too greedy and thus have lost faith of the population. No other community can be blamed for that. Ch. Charan Singh and Ch. Devi Lal both left a wonderful legacy, alas that got wasted out.

    Secondly, not most communities trust us. The reason is our lack of maturity in crunch situations. When Ch. Charan Singh became the CM of UP, every Jat thought he was the CM. They did annoy other communities, least realizing that purely on Jat votes, no Jat leader can come to the power. I had seen myslef, in Jat majority villages, people of other communities were prevented by Jats from casting their vote.


    I think it is the lack of education, that must classify us to be included in the backward classes. I see, some members feel that being OBC is a bad thing or say kind of a degradation of the community. (we are proud people and probably one single quality that we have above all other communities and when we even talk about being included in the OBC, their pride is challanged) Traditionally, we had sided with Brahmins and other communities and did follow the untouchability towards the then lower castes. These things had been taught to us in past and may be are still being taught in the remote areas. I think this could be the reason of Jat Mahasabha not being able to agree on this issue.

    A few words about Mr. Tikait. I think the Kisan movement under the leadership of Mr. Tikait took of brilliantly. To the best of my knowledge the brain behind the movement was that of Retiered Judge Shri Mahavir Singh Ji. What I heard that, once the popularity reached its peak, Mr. Tikait himself became larger than the organization and thus many intellectuals left the Kisan Union. It would have been ideal to keep the Kisan Union as a political organization rather than keeping it non-political. That would have brought not only Jats but also other rural community people to the center of power.
    I personally believe that to make a change one has to graduate to be at the center of power, where he/she can make decisions that chage the fortunes of the nations and the communities.
    Col (Retd) Virendra Tavathia


    "A person should not be judged by the nature of his/her job, but the manner in which he/she does that".

  9. #9
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    Yes, we are really backward if donot join other backward classes! We are really backward if we dont understand this political move of VP Singh! Politics is too simple a thing. If you go into ideologies while discussing politics, then you are really backward! even if you are not then politics will make you backward!
    Politics is a power game where there is no space for ideologies. Ideologies should be discussed aside.

    I said that reservation in every form is deterimental to the whole mass but when others are doing and gaining fruites of it then why should we people be lost in idealism.

    Even when we were lost in idealism to counter Ghazni (when all champions of Hinduism were sleeping after the loot of Somnath temple) where is your history Col Sahb? Not even a single word is taught about Jats in history before Surajmal or little earlier! Is it the idealism or politics in history?

    where does your forwardness go when a Jat as a peon offers water to a less competent person from reserved category?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by sktewatia View Post
    Let me make it clear to you members. My remark is rather sarcastic. We are treated as backward (n not good in history books) and when it comes to reservation issue of OBC then we are made forward. Why this double standard?

    However, I'd like to explain about reservation issue that by going in OBC you really dnt become backward (its a political issue, ideaologically I'm also with you that reservation in all forms is bad. But if it is there for other castes then why not for Jats also? You must know that in Rajasthan even Brahmins and Rajputs demanded OBC status). And also even if you are not in OBC as today in Haryana Punjab etc. even then people are really not treating you as forward. You are still lootere for them.
    OBC status was originally based on your economic status. Jats might have not ruled but because of being land owners they have always been well to do. As a result of that Jats have always enjoyed economic independence and a higher social status that comes along with that. The OBC's were at the bottom when it came to their economic status. This economic status somehow also lead to their lower social status over the years.

    However i do agree with you that the rest of the country does view the JATS as illiterate, uneducated, rude and backward people. Many a times ppl have expressed surprise upon learing that i am JAT and from Haryana. Their usual reaction is "you don't look or act like a JAT" or "hey can you yell and swear" in Haryanvi. It does put me off because of how we are stereotyped. But it is a fact as to how the outside world views us as a community.
    Last edited by amitchhikara; September 27th, 2006 at 09:37 AM.

  11. #11
    Col. Saheb you said "To me working hard at the opportune time is also working smart." and I don't derate that. I think many people are trying to say the same. This may be the "opportune time".

    Expanding a bit on hard work. Hard work alone "may" not be sufficient for an opportunity to realize. One should also be able to use and choose from the best available tools to be successful. For instance, if one were to send to fight an enemy and given a choice between AK47 and Lathi, which one, one would pick? The one requires less and smart work or hard work?

    Rowdy kids is a different topic. But talking of them, well, they make bad choices due to apparent reasons. By the time they realize that they've lost very important part of their life, some give up and blame the system. I have also seen some of them didn't give up and took different career path and are very successful, in fact, far more than those who got 90-100% marks in book exams. I have had very close and extremely rowdy friends whom lie in both sides of fence. To me that is just a matter of choice.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjeevm View Post
    Col. Saheb you said "To me working hard at the opportune time is also working smart." and I don't derate that. I think many people are trying to say the same. This may be the "opportune time".

    Expanding a bit on hard work. Hard work alone "may" not be sufficient for an opportunity to realize. One should also be able to use and choose from the best available tools to be successful. For instance, if one were to send to fight an enemy and given a choice between AK47 and Lathi, which one, one would pick? The one requires less and smart work or hard work?

    Rowdy kids is a different topic. But talking of them, well, they make bad choices due to apparent reasons. By the time they realize that they've lost very important part of their life, some give up and blame the system. I have also seen some of them didn't give up and took different career path and are very successful, in fact, far more than those who got 90-100% marks in book exams. I have had very close and extremely rowdy friends whom lie in both sides of fence. To me that is just a matter of choice.
    Reservation to SC/ST was given when they were at the bottom. After 30-40 years OBC realised that upper caste system is same over their head. Downwards also are not at bottom, but their superiors. Like Dr. Tewatia said that a peon OBC is offering water to a man of less competent man from reserved category. Then OBC woke up that no they should not be at bottom but must fight and they won. Then is a turn for Jat. Now Jat is at bottom. Now, had anybody (non-Jat) advocated that they should remain so and continue to fight like this, I would not have been surprised. But to my surprise, Jats here, themselves, advocating this philosophy here, against their own kins-folk, really surprises me that Jat does not know very simple calculations of primary school.

    JAT: SOLAH DOONI AATTH

  13. #13
    right tewatia ji...... we must be included in most backward community....... When historians are addressing us as looterre & representing an ackward image of Jats in front of world. then it is completely feasible that goverment must take some step to improve the social & financial condition of this community......After all , Jat must get some advantage of being barbaric, illiterate....... Government needs to do something to reform our social status................
    Quote Originally Posted by sktewatia View Post
    Dear all I'd like to draw your attention towards the most astonishing facts that though Jats occupied this most fertile land since times unknown at least for thousands of years? yet they could not rule as late as till Surajmal was born. So, I feel that no other backward community can ever exist as compared to Jats. Hence they all from all states (not only from Rajasthan) from Indus to Ganges should be included in OBC. or otherwise proofs should be shown by historians and administrators that how can you count them in forward classes? A community having its hold on the most fertile land of the world for thousands of years is serviving as lootere (in history text books)? they looted n faught with all the most ferrotious looteres like ghazni, allexander, timur, abdali, nadir, british etc.

    What bad they did then? had they gone to International Human rights commission that time? or to u historians who are living, eating n pharting in their land right now????
    Become more and more innocent, less knowledgeable and more childlike. Take life as fun - because that's precisely what it is!

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by prashantacmet View Post
    right tewatia ji...... we must be included in most backward community....... When historians are addressing us as looterre & representing an ackward image of Jats in front of world. then it is completely feasible that goverment must take some step to improve the social & financial condition of this community......After all , Jat must get some advantage of being barbaric, illiterate....... Government needs to do something to reform our social status................
    bhoot sahee baat kahee prashant,

    Kis aadhar par vipinchandra ne jato ko lootera or shurdra kaha? iska jawab to khud vipinchandra ke paas bhee nahi hoga........

    netra......

  15. #15
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    Vijayji, being Idealist is no-doubt a proud thing.There is no denial of this fact. But remaining idealist in a society, which is not like you and me, will harm us.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by sktewatia View Post
    Vijayji, being Idealist is no-doubt a proud thing.There is no denial of this fact. But remaining idealist in a society, which is not like you and me, will harm us.
    Agree Dr. Tewatia Ji,

    But idealism varies from person to person. I don't think that whole community is idealistic. As you can see here just a few idealistic rather than all. That few are just like what ppl say 'odd man out'.
    It's better to be alone than in a bad company.

  17. #17

    why in obc list

    Tewatia Sir ,
    Including in the obc list does not means solution to our problems the only solution is to be united togethor and fight bravely with all those who are root cause of our problems
    Quote Originally Posted by sktewatia View Post
    Dear all I'd like to draw your attention towards the most astonishing facts that though Jats occupied this most fertile land since times unknown at least for thousands of years? yet they could not rule as late as till Surajmal was born. So, I feel that no other backward community can ever exist as compared to Jats. Hence they all from all states (not only from Rajasthan) from Indus to Ganges should be included in OBC. or otherwise proofs should be shown by historians and administrators that how can you count them in forward classes? A community having its hold on the most fertile land of the world for thousands of years is serviving as lootere (in history text books)? they looted n faught with all the most ferrotious looteres like ghazni, allexander, timur, abdali, nadir, british etc.

    What bad they did then? had they gone to International Human rights commission that time? or to u historians who are living, eating n pharting in their land right now????

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by sahasthegreat View Post
    Tewatia Sir ,
    Including in the obc list does not means solution to our problems the only solution is to be united togethor and fight bravely with all those who are root cause of our problems
    Yes, thats the punch line, it is almost like a motto . . . we need to collectively understand our problems and learn to solve them (collectively). We must grow as a society.

  19. #19
    I would like to point out the rationale behind reservation, specifically in Rajasthan.

    The foremost motive was that reservations had started applying to seats in panchayati raj institutions. The Jat reservation campaign in Rajasthan was primarily motivated by the desire of our far sighted Jat leaders to ensure that in our panchayats where Jat electorate held a majority, the presidentship was not out of their reach because it was reserved for OBCs.

    To really understand this rationale (for Rajasthan, atleast) one has to go back in time and read about Marwar Kisan Sabha in particular.

    However, I do agree with Aarti and Sahas, solutions are only possible when we are united.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by mirdha View Post
    The foremost motive was that reservations had started applying to seats in panchayati raj institutions. The Jat reservation campaign in Rajasthan was primarily motivated by the desire of our far sighted Jat leaders to ensure that in our panchayats where Jat electorate held a majority, the presidentship was not out of their reach because it was reserved for OBCs.



    Yes Mirdha ji, I agree with you. This is the crux of the matter.

    I also agree that itís not a matter for superiority or inferiority. Itís a question all about upward graph for the community as a whole over a region. We cannot see this issue of reservation in light of individual states or areas.

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