Jats in Indian epics

[smeker]

Narendra

Do you have the exact reference and quote?

If so, could you please scan and post it?

Ravi Chaudhary

The examination of 300 skeletons from the Indus Valley Civilization and comparison of those skeletons with modern-day Indians by Kenneth Kennedy has also been a supporting argument for the OIT. Kennedy claims that the Harappan inhabitants of the Indus Valley Civilization are no different from the inhabitants of India in the following millennia.^[19] However, this does not rule out one version of the Aryan Migration Hypothesis which suggests that the only "migration" was one of languages as opposed to a complete displacement of the indigenous population

[narenderkharb]

The examination of 300 skeletons from the Indus Valley Civilization and comparison of those skeletons with modern-day Indians by Kenneth Kennedy has also been a supporting argument for the OIT. Kennedy claims that the Harappan inhabitants of the Indus Valley Civilization are no different from the inhabitants of India in the following millennia.^[19] However, this does not rule out one version of the Aryan Migration Hypothesis which suggests that the only "migration" was one of languages as opposed to a complete displacement of the indigenous population

This is exactly what I have researched and arrived at going through data on jats.

There is no race called ARYA and no people called ARYAN .This term Aryan is like term Christian you study and assimilate vedic literature in your culture and you will say yourslf Aryan .Similarly we have muslim, hindus etc which though follow certain common rituals are made of different ethnic groups.

Vedas didn't make any bone about arya vaizo and original home of people who practised vedic religion as nowhere near India .When some religion spreads people starts relating them to the historical figures of fables of those texts.

This is the single Reason that has destroyed Indian HISTORY AND PAST and the most sufferers are JATS IN TERMS OF HISTORY.

as we trace all our history to astadyayi ,Iskshvaku ,Yayati, Manu persons that may have never lived in our areas and came to land of Jats themselves.

And in contrast to this see we have no aryan invasion proof live here from the day one according to scientific proofs have same material culture in terms jewelery as in RAJASTHAN .We just adopted some vedic influence as burning of dead and similarly vedic priests accepted superiority of native gods as Shiva over indra mitra who were main gods earlier in vedas.We have same bullock carts buffalows and other gods like SHIVA as harppan people had but due to vedas we try to find in which sukta of rigvedas we have our mention .

But alas all our efforts have little results.

I ask why this wasteful excercise ?Are vedas indegenious to this country at the very first place ?
I can expect some priests who later merged in Indian Society to feel urge to relate them in this way but chanting vedic mantras by jat historian looks surprising.

If we want to define JATS than according to me ..

They are simply Central asian Jat Race (neither sythian nor aryan,and our indian area is part of that cenral asia see wiki))who gave birth to many other groups.

Some jats who lived here from Harappa times some moved out some moved in as this population shift continued over this area over the years , however not to any large extent.

[narenderkharb]

Dear all please study the analysis results of KENNETH KENNDY AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IT MEAN...

It says not Jats but SANSKRIT and its vedas as a religion came from outside to land of JATS.

Where we have all proofs supporting people living in our areas as the original inhabitants of Harppa civilization ..

We have all proofs supporting sanskrit as outside language a later day arrival in INDIA and recording its present thousand year earlier in different areas.

[narenderkharb]

When there is any discussion regarding AIT

right winger try to fight on the basis as people of those times and today are same that is largely true.

And other group fight on basis that sanskrit is not native ...Which is also true..

And the fight continues ...continue ...continue..

I realsied this so put the real picture in the very begining itself that Jats were in fact the inhabitants of HARPPAN Civilization and Sanskrit and vedas came later.

No body from any group has so far advanced any argument that might negate this fact.

[smeker]

We can partitionate Eurasia in 4 big areas, Europe,Middle east,India,China . We see relative big movement inside each of these areas ,but very low migrations betwin these areas(exept modern times).Very few migrate from China in Europe,or from Middle east(irano-semitic area) to China.The same must be true for India.Historial fail until now to proove that any masive invasion from outside occur in India.
Whit all invazions from mongoloid ASia in Europe we see extremly few mongoloids in Europe.Even populations who speak mongoloid language like hungarians look in majority as any european.
We observ a big migration in Europe of neolithic people,but they came from near by Turkey.Even whit their superior capacity to sustain more children then hunters ,still they barely form 20% of Europe population.
Even more ,Turkey is a very good habitat for people ,while area west to India is more like desert and sttepe ,not good for a big human population.So i doubt that any massive migration came in INdia ven from near by Iran.

[smeker]

About schytians is belive that they form in 3000BC in North of Uiguristan,next to Mongolia.An least this is what arheology show.From there they migrate In Central Asia stepe and replace the cimmerians in north of Black Sea in 700BC.
Imagine that schytians and other stepe people was not numerous in number(how many people can live in a dry stepe?).If we take such big country as Kazahstan it has only 15 milion people,which half are new comers russians,not native.This is the explication(this and the nomadic stile) of why schytians replace cimmerians,sarmatian replace schitians,turko-mongols replace finaly this caucasias 1600 years ago.
In 600 BC the name getae(and related names) apear in Europe for the first time.Some how ,is posible to be related whit the schytian invasion replacing the cimmerians.

[smeker]

Are jats sakas who came in India in 200bc? Lets not confuse a small number of invaders(may be less then 100 thousands) whit 8-10 milions of west India inhabitants(India has by then 70-80 milion people).Imagine how many people sakas must to kill in order to replace the natives.The most dangerous people for farmers are not the nomads from stepe but other farmers.Sakas didnt replace anybody .
Are jats aryans? no major invasion is recorded at that time.Arheology find nothing as an invasion.Arheologists today can find a group of hunters from paleolithic but they cant find evidence for a major invasion only 3000 years ago ? What was the population of INdia in 1500BC? 15 milions.Harrapans number was an least 2 milions in 2500 bc(while Sumer have 0,5 mil ,and Egipt 1 million in the same time).
If stepe people didnt replace not a single ethnic group in Europe,not even the people from the edge of the stepe,how could they replace any people from India which have twice the human density as Europe.?

The mistery is not from were the jats came from but from were the name jat originate.

[sktewatia]

The examination of 300 skeletons from the Indus Valley Civilization and comparison of those skeletons with modern-day Indians by Kenneth Kennedy has also been a supporting argument for the OIT. Kennedy claims that the Harappan inhabitants of the Indus Valley Civilization are no different from the inhabitants of India in the following millennia.^[19] However, this does not rule out one version of the Aryan Migration Hypothesis which suggests that the only "migration" was one of languages as opposed to a complete displacement of the indigenous population

Soka, I'd like you to concentrate on Assur part of Jat. There are so many gots like Jatasra itself who write Asra only. Asra here means Assur. Morasur and Narasur are known to have faught with Krishna. There was one Bakasur also who was killed by Bhima. The present Assyria/syria is named after assur. Its ancient history calls its capital as "Ninenveh" means ninety nine in English "99" the greatest binary number.

Soka, today all computers n all modern technology is based on these two binary numbers zero and one. yes or no.

I really wonder sometimes, how our ancestor knew that much so as to name syria's capital as "ninenveh"?

[smeker]

Narender ,Shiva is a real indo-european god.Is found at any indo-european people be it celts,thracians,schytians,not whit the same name of course.
Why Shiva isnt consider by some as an IE god? because is belive that proto-Shiva(pashpati) is a fertility god and aryans as a nomadic people didnt need a fertility god. But reconstruction of proto-IE pantheon show that fertility god and goddess was among the principal gods of proto-IE.
Shiva is similar whit germanic Odin and celtic Lug,not to mention slavic Veles or dacian Zalmoxis.An arhetipe of the cultural hero.

[smeker]

Soka, I'd like you to concentrate on Assur part of Jat. There are so many gots like Jatasra itself who write Asra only. Asra here means Assur. Morasur and Narasur are known to have faught with Krishna. There was one Bakasur also who was killed by Bhima. The present Assyria/syria is named after assur. Its ancient history calls its capital as "Ninenveh" means ninety nine in English "99" the greatest binary number.

Soka, today all computers n all modern technology is based on these two binary numbers zero and one. yes or no.

I really wonder sometimes, how our ancestor knew that much so as to name syria's capital as "ninenveh"?

We say Niniveh ,but it was spell Ninua.Doesnt sound like 99.Ashur was one of the son of Shem the legend says.
Binary code,yes,but soon will be computers which use fractions not binary codes:D

[smeker]

As the name jat is conected somehow whit schytians and gutians,both people came from the same himalayan area,must be original from west Himalaya area.

[smeker]

Narender ,i cant send you more messages as you have full folder ,100 messages

[narenderkharb]

Narender ,Shiva is a real indo-european god.Is found at any indo-european people be it celts,thracians,schytians,not whit the same name of course.
Why Shiva isnt consider by some as an IE god? because is belive that proto-Shiva(pashpati) is a fertility god and aryans as a nomadic people didnt need a fertility god. But reconstruction of proto-IE pantheon show that fertility God and goddess was among the principal gods of proto-IE.
Shiva is similar whit germanic Odin and celtic Lug,not to mention slavic Veles or dacian Zalmoxis.An arhetipe of the cultural hero.

Soko You are right in your observation .

As I read the sythian language and artifacts by Rizcovich(check spelling) I found a similar god like pashupati same horns same snake and a script like Indus valley script same figure was there in Ziroft civilzation .you find same culture in Xinjiang and nortern bacteria (early phase)and all areas are related with jats inhabitance.I found Zalmoxis lord of Romanian jats and shiva lord of Indus valley Jats.To summarise we have lord shiva as god of IE Jats originally, later on adjusted in remixed religion.

Now finding same culture and people with similar genetics(variation do occur over years ) and people calling them Jats from Dachia to Transoxania and India make me feel Jat is the most ancient race of people that spread over this area and had inter regional movements not to a massive scale though.

[narenderkharb]

But we do found the movement of people over great distances and Jats were no exceptions.

We find Bala Jats moving from Turan to India in and settling in wide area as far as malwa.

We find mengals moving from baluchistan to chinese turkistan.

We find recentaly makrani JATS MOVING FROM halft area of Iran to gujarat KACHH area only 500 years ago.

Belochi along with bruhie moving to belochistan from iran.

And Bruhies moving from central India to bangla desh iran turkmanistan and belochistan areas .

Well migration do occur but as a small % of total population which hardly can change a population pattern drastically.

[smeker]

Soko You are right in your observation .

As I read the sythian language and artifacts by Rizcovich(check spelling) I found a similar god like pashupati same horns same snake and a script like Indus valley script same figure was there in Ziroft civilzation .you find same culture in Xinjiang and nortern bacteria (early phase)and all areas are related with jats inhabitance.I found Zalmoxis lord of Romanian jats and shiva lord of Indus valley Jats.To summarise we have lord shiva as god of IE Jats originally, later on adjusted in remixed religion.

Now finding same culture and people with similar genetics(variation do occur over years ) and people calling them Jats from Dachia to Transoxania and India make me feel Jat is the most ancient race of people that spread over this area and had inter regional movements not to a massive scale though.

Now you wrong ,germans or romanians are not jats. Only 5% of them .No more then that.And Shiva wasnt the only god of jats.but among the first 3 more important.

[smeker]

This area you mention have the comon gene R1a .Which is there from 10000 years old in that region.

[narenderkharb]

Now you wrong ,germans or romanians are not jats. Only 5% of them .No more then that.And Shiva wasnt the only god of jats.but among the first 3 more important.

I don't remember wether I said german as Jats though I do feel that germani may be a jat tribe of germans and mann heyer bullar schillar may have been the same clans as found in Indian Jats however this I didn't post here.

About Anatolia I don't say all are Jats I simply say that jats have a God similar to lord Shiva in discription.

I think you got me wrong.

[narenderkharb]

This area you mention have the comon gene R1a .Which is there from 10000 years old in that region.

Over the years there is a clear cut pattern of genetic movement given by opperhmier.
But this is a digression as we wanted to know what can we BE reffered Indo sythian Indo aryans ,I feel we can be called as IE Jats rather than these two terms that won't do justice to definition of Jats for the reasons sited earlier.

[smeker]

As for me ,the evidence sugest that place of jat origin is near Himalaya so i must consider my self defeated in my early theory(jats having black sea origin).If jats came in Europe in 600BC they can be only a minority in Europe as i say earlier.
I belive that this german tribes whit jat names was a ruling elite of the german population.I explaind earlier why im not confuse the name of a nation whit the nation it self.For exemple only one of the 7 chinese states have the name Qin.But this name expanded to all population.The other 6 states renunce to their original names and adopted the Qin name.

[smeker]

Because name jat is older then the name schytian we better say that jats are IE people or aryan if you like.We can trace the name jat to the name guti which exist before the schytians whit 1000 years.