Hi All,
My bhatija Amit got in for IIT. He has to choose on 30th June. Looking at the score, he may get Computer Science in IITG, Instrumentation in IITK or Maths & Computing. I have preference for computer science. Can you all help me on this noble cause. I am also an old IITian (1971), waiting for your advice soon.
regards
Uncle Ji,
According to me,
IITG CS is the best option.
next best option is maths and computing (is it at iitd?)
congratulations to Amit!.
Lambaji,
Congratulations to your nephew for getting into IIT. I feel intelligent children should be allowed to pursue their own interests and dreams, but since you asked for opinions here, I would like to offer my analysis.
I have seen over the years that when it comes to choosing a field in India the standard practice is to "follow the crowd and join the fad". I remember 45 years ago the first branch to be filled was Mechanical Engineering, and now a days it is Computer Science.
My belief is that it is not a good idea to chase a "hot" field unless one has a genuine interest in it and has some specific plans for the future. However, for someone who is not committed to one field, the choice should be made on the basis of long term prospets.
I prefer Mechanical Engieering for someone who is good in math and who wants to keep his options open. Companies are always trying to make smaller and faster devices, and that has made mechanical engineering the most stable field of engineering in times of economic uncertainty. The field provides ample opportunities for an "entrepreneurial" person to pursue his dreams but it also provides a stable career for someone who just wants a decent life. For those who are good in applied math, a B.Tech. in Mech. Eng. followed by M.S. and/or Ph.D. in Industrial Engineering always leads to excellent opportunities. Those with good interpersonal skills can follow with an MBA. Mechanical engineering is really the most versatile field as it overlaps with civil eng. (structures and mechanics), chemical eng. (heat and fluid flow), and electrical eng. (controls ).
The problem I see with computer science is that unless you get out of pure "techie stuff" soon it is not so fun to compete with 20 year olds when you are heading past 40. But, usually the computer types are "boxed in" and they get trapped. Very few people realize that the guy who designed the first PC is now a practicing medical doctor in Atlanta, Georgia. I remmber watching a show on PBS showing the history of PC and the pure techies did the work but did not receive any credit or benefits.
In general, it is a good idea to join a field that offers multiple options for a varity of personality traits. There is a place in mechanical engineering for introverts and extroverts, math geniuses and practical oriented, easy going and workaholics. Most importantly, if all the toppers are concentrated in comp science, it may be lot easier to get a higher rank in mech. eng. and that is critical for future prospects.
Thanks Mandeep for feed back
Yes, Maths and computing is at IITD
with love
------------------------------------
Uncle Ji,
According to me,
IITG CS is the best option.
next best option is maths and computing (is it at iitd?)
congratulations to Amit!.[/quote]
Dr Birbal Singh Ji,
Thanks for very informative reply
I agree with u, engineering means mechanical Eng which is a complete engineering while others are its subsideries.
I asked the boy, he said I like physics. But I know every bright student is good at physics any way. Also it looks he has not made up his mind. Today I will discuss with him more options.
I received reply from Dr Prev Vrat, director IITR and he also said computer science.
It looks in India because of international market leadership, IT will be first preference for at least another 10 years. Also salary in IT multinational companies is quite high which engineers are not getting unless do MBA from an IIM on top of your degree. Also one need not do pogramming for long if u are in India. All my batch mates are vice presidents or in general management.I know people working in TCS etc who grow quite well. This problem we face when we migrate to a new country in middle age.
At 45 I was head of computer department in India, but in Australia I had to start as an Analyst/Programmer. This was the situation 16 years ago. That time we Indians had just started coming to Australia on migration. Financialy we were fine and we came with family, but technology wise we where not that upto date and we newcomers had to pay the price at that time. At least we had not to do the odd jobs.
regards
----------------------------------
Lambaji,
Congratulations to your nephew for getting into IIT. I feel intelligent children should be allowed to pursue their own interests and dreams, but since you asked for opinions here, I would like to offer my analysis.
I have seen over the years that when it comes to choosing a field in India the standard practice is to "follow the crowd and join the fad". I remember 45 years ago the first branch to be filled was Mechanical Engineering, and now a days it is Computer Science.
My belief is that it is not a good idea to chase a "hot" field unless one has a genuine interest in it and has some specific plans for the future. However, for someone who is not committed to one field, the choice should be made on the basis of long term prospets.
I prefer Mechanical Engieering for someone who is good in math and who wants to keep his options open. Companies are always trying to make smaller and faster devices, and that has made mechanical engineering the most stable field of engineering in times of economic uncertainty. The field provides ample opportunities for an "entrepreneurial" person to pursue his dreams but it also provides a stable career for someone who just wants a decent life. For those who are good in applied math, a B.Tech. in Mech. Eng. followed by M.S. and/or Ph.D. in Industrial Engineering always leads to excellent opportunities. Those with good interpersonal skills can follow with an MBA. Mechanical engineering is really the most versatile field as it overlaps with civil eng. (structures and mechanics), chemical eng. (heat and fluid flow), and electrical eng. (controls ).
The problem I see with computer science is that unless you get out of pure "techie stuff" soon it is not so fun to compete with 20 year olds when you are heading past 40. But, usually the computer types are "boxed in" and they get trapped. Very few people realize that the guy who designed the first PC is now a practicing medical doctor in Atlanta, Georgia. I remmber watching a show on PBS showing the history of PC and the pure techies did the work but did not receive any credit or benefits.
In general, it is a good idea to join a field that offers multiple options for a varity of personality traits. There is a place in mechanical engineering for introverts and extroverts, math geniuses and practical oriented, easy going and workaholics. Most importantly, if all the toppers are concentrated in comp science, it may be lot easier to get a higher rank in mech. eng. and that is critical for future prospects.[/quote]
Ishwar Ji: Greetings!
Thanks for sharing with us the good news of your nephew’s achievement for selection in IIT. You have actually brought up a very important point in asking for suggestions regarding his choice of a field of study. In this regard I certainly have very concrete suggestions that would be beneficial to any bright person.
1. The right and best thing for people of ability to do is to appeal to their own interest in choosing a career. I could not improve much upon Dr. Birbal Singh Ji’s statement, “I feel intelligent children should be allowed to pursue their own interests and dreams”. We should not compromise with this dictum. People of ability become successful NOT because of a field of work they choose, but due to finding and then concentrating on their discipline of interest. First-rate researchers and contributors in any field are seldom ushered in that field, they are there due to their own choosing and interest. I have followed and practiced this philosophy all my life. Some 32 years ago, I came to that cross road for myself. Most parents wanted their children to become doctors/engineers; and many of my classmates did become. My uncle very much wished and hoped that I would become an IAS officer. I certainly could have studied to become any of those, as I was second to none in almost all exams I appeared for till I completed my M.Sc.(Hons.) in mathematics from Chandigarh. HOWEVER, soon after my matriculation, I appealed to my inner voice for guidance and I realized that I wanted to become a Mathematician. It probably sounded odd to many friends back then but not to me. Rest was history and a very pleasant one.
2. I have applied the same principle to my children. I have thoughtfully refrained from giving advice to my children about their choice of field of study. They have to study according to their interest and only then they will reach a level of satisfaction and accomplishment. My only advice has been and is, “Appeal to yourself and find out what you want to accomplish. I will do my part and you be sincere in your work and everything will be just fine.” And the philosophy is paying off. My daughter just became of an assistant professor in a fine school in California at a very young age of 27. I simply watched her work hard according to her own pace and interests. I only provided her encouragement as need be. I am certain that my conviction will pay off in other cases as well.
3. I can keep on writing but the message will remain the same. In conclusion, your nephew is a bright fellow. He should study any discipline where his interest is the most profound. Then only he will do very well and he will be a satisfied person with much to offer to any society. To predict what will happen in any job market 5 years down the road is a futile exercise. A job to make a living is rarely a burning issue for a bright person. It is the interest and full utilization of one's ability that need attention.
Success is doing what you love and loving what you do.
I wish him well.
Keep thinking, it always helps !!!!!
Budh Nashier, M.Sc.(Hons.), Ph.D.
Dear Uncle Ishwar Singh Lambaji,
Congratulations to you,Amit & your whole family for this great achievement!!
Regards,
Balraj Dahiya
Ishwar Singh Lamba (Jun 20, 2004 08:17 p.m.):
Hi All,
My bhatija Amit got in for IIT. He has to choose on 30th June. Looking at the score, he may get Computer Science in IITG, Instrumentation in IITK or Maths & Computing. I have preference for computer science. Can you all help me on this noble cause. I am also an old IITian (1971), waiting for your advice soon.
regards
I totally agree with what Budh ji has said...If one follows the crowd, one will surely reach a crowded place....Intelligent pleople should follow what they enjoy doing the most...Self life of computer courses is very short..and one has to be be exteremely careful. I know many who never had computers as their
main or even secondary subject, but still made excellent in computers. Salary alone should not be the deciding factor. Intelligent people will always earn enough to live comfortably.
Regards
Rajendra
uncle Ji,
I agree with the views put up by Dr. Birbal singh, Dr. Budh Nashier and Rajendra Jee. The choice has to be his own and obviously he is intelligent enough to make that choice. He should not be forced to take up something that he doesnt like.
But what you get to study at IITs is not entirely based on your choice but is more or less decided by the rank you get. In that regard only top 100 rankers can "really choose" something. Rest have to choose from what is available. A computer science grad from IIT is definitely not a part of any crowd. only 150 or so odd students out of nearly a million high school passing students get to study comp. sci. at IITs.
Also, choosing comp. sci. does not in any way limits the options. Hardly any graduate from comp. sci. from IIT joins an IT firm like Infosys,TCS or other big software firms. Thats normally the domain of mechanical, chemical or civil engineers. Most of the graduates pursure research oriented careers. Just as an example i can give some stats of 2002 batch of comp sci from iitd. A very few of them are "working" in software companies. 5-6 of them are at microsoft. Many of them joined IIMs and many went abroad for their higher studies in diverse fields such as bio-informatics, theoretical computer science, AI, robotics etc. 7 of them started their own company using the help of techology incubator at iitd. This diversity in career options is in itself a reflection of the numerous career paths one can pursue after graduation.
Also generally your department at IIT is generally considered as an selection crieteria for many non-technical companies that visit IITs for recruitment. Comp sci and elec are normally invited by nearly all the non-technical organizations.
---
maths and computing at iitd is a unique program. Its around 50% mathematics and 50% computer science. This program is also in high demand and normally chosen by students more dispositioned towards mathematics. Career prospects are similar to those of CS graduates.
Lamba Ji,
Congratulations to Amit for getting selected in IIT. Amit is certainly a bright kid. So no matter what branch he chooses, he is likely to do very well.
I completely agree with you all about letting Amit choose his own option but I am sure he can use some help mainly because even though he is a really bright student, he probably doesn't have all the insight in the various industries and the direction these industries are heading into.
So, Amit's interests should be fully taken into consideration and then his well wishers should guide him accordingly.
I would certainly advise against Comp Sc. This space is really crowded and most importantly you can always do Comp Sc by completing a few extra courses. In Comp Sc it is only the experience which counts. There is only elementry stuff which is tought in Comp Sc courses. I really don't have anything against Comp Sc, I am just stating what I feel about the industry (after working in this area for 15 years). I finished my Master's in Comp Sc. in 1989 when hardly anyone knew and wanted to go into this other than IITs.
If I were Amit (which I am not), I would go for Electrical, Mechanical or (Tele)Communication followed by an MBA. When a kid gets in IIT you want to make him lead in an industry which will be there for long time and which will thrive for long time. Choosing, Electrical or Mechanical will keep his options open for any industry he wants to go into with all his subject fundamentals clear.
I think Communication technologies have much room to grow and the whole communication paradigm is likely to change from the way we see it today. Cell phone is just the beginning.
Thanks.
-ajmer
Ishwar Singh Lamba (Jun 20, 2004 08:17 p.m.):
Hi All,
My bhatija Amit got in for IIT. He has to choose on 30th June. Looking at the score, he may get Computer Science in IITG, Instrumentation in IITK or Maths & Computing. I have preference for computer science. Can you all help me on this noble cause. I am also an old IITian (1971), waiting for your advice soon.
regards
Dear Uncle..
My heartiest congratulations to Amit ....I am sure whta ever field he chooses to go, he will do good in it ...I feel its more important to be good at yur work rather than being average in something which is called hot job .....
Babita
Lamba Ji,
I will suggest against comp sci in IIT-G and sending Amit to other older IIT's like IITD, IITK or my loving IIT-Kharagpur. Reason being that, for companies who comes to hire students older iit's are well known while newer aren't. So he will have a better chance of getting a good job.
Amit is a bright kid and he could work hard for one more year and could change the branch once he join any IIT. If he goes to any of the older IIT's which already have reputation of good departments and change department after one year he will be in better position than getting comp sci degree from IITG which is relatively new IIT.
Almost all of IIT students join software companies. So best thing will be have a degree in something other than comp sci so that he will have a more choices in future. As we have already seen comp sci is a good field but it has already gone down and as more and more students are coming out with comp sci degrees demand for IIT graduate is not that high (Why pay an IIT graduate twice than any other person for the same type of job) IIT graduates are considered better in other fields not because they are smarter but because IITs have better facilities that other colleges thus students will have more understanding/exposure to latest technologies.
Let me know if you need more info on IIT kgp. I did my graduation from there in 1998 (ECE). Nitin could provide more info on IIT-D.
regards
rajdeep singh
Thank you very much to all of you, Dr Birbal Ji, Mandeep Ji, Budh Ji, Balraj Ji, Rajendra Ji, Ajmer Ji, Babita Ji and Rajdeep Ji for all your kind well wishes for Amit and and very very useful advice. Views of all of us cover different aspects and hence are right and complements of other views. All of we are are lucky members of this international jat family. Also as Budh bhai as mentioned, by this we are getting very good analysis on career selection process and will be useful for our young students. When we talk of selection, many of us even do not know what is available on the menu, then only the choice of selection comes.
Regards
Dear Mr. Ishwar Singh Lambaji,
Congratulations to you, Amit & your family for this great achievement!!
I agree with the advise of Ajmerji, Dr. Birbalji and others who are talking about long term and not to rush after the crowd. As Ajmer wrote, CS is additional qualification which can be achieved at any stage.
Regards,
Rajender Dahiya
Bidhlania
Thanks Rajinder Ji
regards
--------------------------
Dear Mr. Ishwar Singh Lambaji,
Congratulations to you, Amit & your family for this great achievement!!
I agree with the advise of Ajmerji, Dr. Birbalji and others who are talking about long term and not to rush after the crowd. As Ajmer wrote, CS is additional qualification which can be achieved at any stage.
Regards,
Rajender Dahiya[/quote]
Uncle Ji,
Congrats uncleji.
regds,
ajaybamel
Dear Lamba ji, pls convey my Congratulations and best wishes to Amit!!!
Rajdeep brought up a very good point and I fully agree with him, as i used the same logic while joing college abt 15 yrs back. Its location, location, location !
The campus culture, alumuni networking and the campus brand name is more important, All IITs and all IIMs are not same. All cities are not same. I know many of my friends who gave up a seat in IIT to join a 2nd line engring college in Delhi or gave up on a more prestigious course to join a better known campus. And, non have regreted that decision yet.
Congratulations to Amit and family,
Great news.
and great suggestions as well.
-A
_(~)_
Thanks Anil and Anuj
regards
I see too many people saying that one should choose XYZ engineering over computer science/engineering, because all you have to do is take a few programming courses to learn computer science. This is rather naive.
Just like a "luhaar" is no mechanical engineer, and just like a "khaati" is no civil engineer, a mechanical engineer with a few programming courses is no computer scientist.
Sure a mechanical engineer can learn a programming language or two and do low end programming jobs, and in the boom economy of the late 90s might even do quite well.
But under a tighter economy and for high end computer jobs, a mechanical engineer with some programming is no go.
There are too many people with erra-gaeera computer programming diplomas and NIIT courses offering guidance here. Sure, if all these people have been doing is low end application development and web site development (and similar work), they might tend to think the same. Well kuve ka maindak.....you know what I mean !
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