Reservation of JAT's in Haryana.

[vijay]

so my conclusion is that we dont need reservation but need a good education system...and hopefully that will sove the problem.

Obviously ...... the greatest factor ...... without any doubt.

[nysa]

If people think that reservation can ensure a better position for the community in social and financial circles than definitely it's a false preception. In contrast, it creates a wider gap among the clans and community itself ...... courtesy to the 'NICE' political and administrative system of Independent Republic of India. The best thing about the present system is that if you have resources than it doesn't matter whether you fall into the category of reserved people or not .... your future is assured ( not talking about fate/fortune ).

You have put it across rightly;"nothing would work in one's favour unless one is hardworking"!

Of course we are not looking at getting better position in social or financial circles, by reservation.It is about providing those oppurtunities that one, who(has lived in a rural area) worked really hard, have missed it coz if it being given to a "reserved " candidate.

On a personal note I m against any kind of reservation. I believe the reservation should only be for disabled and kin of army men.

Dr. Neelam had rightly said that if one has to grow as a nation , as a community or an individual it has to begin with education.But as she herself talks about the failing of system and govt. machinery does that leave any room for equal oppurtunities?
I doubt.

Now if I think about all those, living in rural areas, working hard to progress and might MISS that one chance which could have made THE difference..and if "reservation" can get that ..I am all for
it!!!

[jitender_singh]

now bainsla and rajasthan govt have an agreement. gujjars will have special quota of 4-6% with in OBC quota.

my question is will it impact jats in OBC quota there..

[brahmtewatia]

If people think that reservation can ensure a better position for the community in social and financial circles than definitely it's a false preception. In contrast, it creates a wider gap among the clans and community itself ...... courtesy to the 'NICE' political and administrative system of Independent Republic of India. The best thing about the present system is that if you have resources than it doesn't matter whether you fall into the category of reserved people or not .... your future is assured ( not talking about fate/fortune ). (wat abt those who hv ltd or no resources???)

Let's talk about the burning topic. In Rajasthan, Gujjar's are on Railway Tracks for reservation. Let's suppose that somehow they manage to get it ( rare possibilities )(...they got it), do you think they will emerge out as winners. (best examples of winners r meena's nd yaadav's) NO. Col. Bainsla's political ambitions lead him to lost his credibility within the community and he is fighting for that ONLY.

Let me clear the equation for you people here behind the Gujjar Movement in Rajasthan. Meena's have 4 MP seats, 16-20 seats in assembly ( SC reservation) and Gujjar are eyeing on that only. (wat a crap...u mean all this funfair thts happenening is only for those 4 MP seats) It's irony that poor people are sacrificing their lives for the mighty and corrupt ones. The movement is reaching Jaipur and one day 'we' asked a Gujjar that what for are you fighting ? Poor soul replied that their leaders told them that they are going to be rich within three months. (another crap ...it might b one off opinion, m pretty sure tht majority of gujjars dont carry this opinion) That's the essence of this movement, perception, ambitions and off courese FUTURE.
For the people who talk about hard work :

So, what's an opportunity if you don't work and if you are hard working .... opportunities will come to you by itself.

Now if I think about all those, living in rural areas, working hard to progress and might MISS that one chance which could have made THE difference..and if "reservation" can get that ..I am all for it!!! (well said)

............................... ............................... ............................ ..............................................

my call to support the reservation is only for the thousands of down-trodden jaats who r needy in real sense. if 100 ppl r in possession, of so called yellow cards, i'm pretty sure tht a chunk of ppl among them really deserve tht...no comments on sick mentality of the undeserving ppl who r getting this pension...so wud b true with the allocation of Jat reservation...i wud b glad even if 25% of those down-trodden jaats reap the benefit of reservation.

[prashantacmet]

............................... ............................... ............................ ..............................................

my call to support the reservation is only for the thousands of down-trodden jaats who r needy in real sense. if 100 ppl r in possession, of so called yellow cards, i'm pretty sure tht a chunk of ppl among them really deserve tht...no comments on sick mentality of the undeserving ppl who r getting this pension...so wud b true with the allocation of Jat reservation...i wud b glad even if 25% of those down-trodden jaats reap the benefit of reservation.

Well said !!

[prashantacmet]

If people think that reservation can ensure a better position for the community in social and financial circles than definitely it's a false preception. In contrast, it creates a wider gap among the clans and community itself ...... courtesy to the 'NICE' political and administrative system of Independent Republic of India. The best thing about the present system is that if you have resources than it doesn't matter whether you fall into the category of reserved people or not .... your future is assured ( not talking about fate/fortune ).

Let's talk about the burning topic. In Rajasthan, Gujjar's are on Railway Tracks for reservation. Let's suppose that somehow they manage to get it ( rare possibilities ), do you think they will emerge out as winners. NO. Col. Bainsla's political ambitions lead him to lost his credibility within the community and he is fighting for that ONLY.

Let me clear the equation for you people here behind the Gujjar Movement in Rajasthan. Meena's have 4 MP seats, 16-20 seats in assembly ( SC reservation) and Gujjar are eyeing on that only. It's irony that poor people are sacrificing their lives for the mighty and corrupt ones. The movement is reaching Jaipur and one day 'we' asked a Gujjar that what for are you fighting ? Poor soul replied that their leaders told them that they are going to be rich within three months. That's the essence of this movement, perception, ambitions and off courese FUTURE.

For the people who talk about hard work :

My forefathers have some land in a villege in Ganganagar Distt of Rajasthan. Without any arguement ...... best fertile area in India ..... in Ghagghar Besin. 95% population of that villege is SC and ST. Those 95% SC/ST since last 60 years are living in poverty by their own wish but having all the opprtunities to work hard and get richer. They possess lands worth of crores ( due to the govt. policies only ). I spent two years there and analyze them so closely. A person having a land of worth approx. 10 Crores is more than ready to work as a 70 Rs/day labourer instead of cultivating his own fields. GOD BLESS. ( Don't want to tell some other details as some people may got irritated )

So, what's an opportunity if you don't work and if you are hard working .... opportunities will come to you by itself.

I cann't believe it. Some times u come up with these craps. !!! .it is a false attempt to convince the ppl with such silly example...Mr. vijay !! ppl are having a bit of sense . Don't treat ppl like morons.

[jitendershooda]

Tell one thing honestly after practically thinking over it... do yu think if Jats get reservation, it ll raech the real needy... i mean will the ppl who are in real need...like the villagers yu ve mentioned who are deprived of all facilities..... get the benefit of reservation.....???

Neelam ji, though you picked Sumit's phrase ... yet providing my views.
If the benefit of reservation will be availed by the child of a teacher who doesnt comes under poverty line or the line we feel is the needy (Shayad hum log needy unko dekh rahe hein jo ki gaon mein hein aur kisi bhi terah se development se achoote hein ... jo apne bacho ko aache se padha bhi nahi pate) but is not able to provide full fledged facilities and have a hard working child who can score 80% but not 90 because his father will not be able to send him to Kota or Delhi to have coaching classes for months .... if such a child get selected then I am more than happy to grab this reservation. Will you be?

One example ..... these days because in haryana we are not having reservation in pmt for jats ... and less pmt seats are there ... so even some wise jats are doing like this ....

They put name of their child in some govt schools in delhi from as early as possible eg from 9th or 11th .... child doesnt go to school .... instead their parents put them either in Bansal Kota or in some good coaching institute for whole 2 years 11th and 12th .... the result is .... I know one of my relative who did this and she is now doing MBBS in Maulana azad college .... without any drop .... only because of????????????????

Does this helped?????????? Kya wo ek irrigation dept mein kaam karne wala clerk ... needy nahi hai?????????????? kya wo log iss reservation ke victim hein???????????? Kya issmein kahin se bhi iss jati ke samman ko thes pahunchi .... VIJAY JI KRIPYA DHYAN DEIN ...... you have said in some other thread that they are fighting for BHEEKH ... no it is not a bheekh and that child was no where less hard working ..... neither their family is much blessed with wealth ....

Aap kripya in sab ka bhi jawab dena .... its only to convince the people who think that reservation is only a demand of BHEEKH.

For god sake dont be so much impractical ..... yes we say that the benefit would be taken by not so much needy but NEEDY .... as the family in example cited above is nowhere wealthy ..... aajkal bahut bachey competition mein hein ... aur aap nakar nahi sakte ki ... jo bache in coaching institutes se coaching lete hein poora 2 saal they will perform better than others ..... then what will those people will do whose child willnot get these coachings and neither they will get seats .... because seats are less .... the general seats are occupied by much wealthier and fortunate people who for coachings .... aap sehamat honge ki jo baccha ghar par mehanat karne padhega aur kum wealthy situation mein unke maa-baap local tuitions hi dilva pate hein joki aachi standard ki nahi hoti hein .... to wo kitni bhi mehanat kar le wo nahi aa pata hai 50 seeton mein .....

To aise mein ya to bilkul reservation band karo ....

YA please ab kuch der ke liye ye gap between castes aur badh jane do .... aap log to aise kar rahe ho jaise ..... YADAV ko haryana mein reservation milne se to ATANK MACH GAYA THA >>>>> HAZARON JANE GAEIN THIN ..... KRIPYA KOE JAWAN DE .,....in sabka ek ek karke .... aaap jo log iska virodh kar rahe hein gine chune shabd akar bol dete hein .... please give your counters for the small innocent queries asked by me above ......

In another post of yours abt economic criteria yu urself ve mentioned... how system is failed.... n ppl who ve properties take yellow card n those below 50 take old age pension...so similar ll happen in the case of reservation... the needy wont get benefitted by this ... it ll only help who are already in better position.
Major problem in this country is failure of system.... they cant provide quality education,,, cant provide baisc amenities to all.... n so much more....!!!
Reservation is no solution... it ll create gap n hatred among the casts,, nothing else.
NO reservation n better n free education for all should be the motto.

NO reservation n better n free education for all should be the motto.

Jee neelam ji you are right .... we can go for this ... but why to put axe on our foot first .... pahele reservation mil jane do ... phir hum sidhantvadi ban janege .... aur har kisi jati ke reservation ya no reservation ke liye fight karenge .... what you think what is practical looking at the present scenerio? Kya reservation ka virodh nahi hua tha 90 mein .... agar aap reservation ka virodh karoge to kya aapke sabdon mein castes ke beech khai nahi badhegi???????? Jisko iska chaska laga hua hai kya wo log JAISE MEENA VIRODH KAR RAHE THEY RAJASTHAN MEIN ... waise nahi karenge ... kya wo dalit sadkon par nahi utrenge aise mein ????????

AAP KYA SAMAJHTE HO MEENA KI SADKON PAR UTARNE KI BAAT SAHI HAI RAJ MEIN >>>> AUR KYA WO AAJ BHI DESERVE KARTE HEIN STATUS .... AUR JO LOG YE KAHETE HEIN KI RESERVATION SE KOE FAEDA NAHI HOTA .... TO KYA MEENA KE STATUS MEIN ALTOGETHER FAEDA NAHI HUA .... SARKAR BHI HIMMAT NAHI KAR PAE UNEH RUTHANE KI .....

PLEASE THE PEOPLE GIVE ANSWERS .... DESPITE OF PUTTING RATTE RATTAE WORDS IN ITS OPPOSITION .... COME BY QUERY BY QUERY ... HO SAKTA HAI AAPME SE KISI KE TARQ MUJHE YA KAE AURON KO APNA MAT BADALNE AUR SAHI RASTA DIKHANE MEIN HELP KAREIN ....

[brahmtewatia]

[/color]
PLEASE THE PEOPLE GIVE ANSWERS .... DESPITE OF PUTTING RATTE RATTAE WORDS IN ITS OPPOSITION .... COME BY QUERY BY QUERY ... HO SAKTA HAI AAPME SE KISI KE TARQ MUJHE YA KAE AURON KO APNA MAT BADALNE AUR SAHI RASTA DIKHANE MEIN HELP KAREIN ....

jeetender bhai bahut badhiya...kudos for yr. fighting spirit
...
aur और आन दो इस्से इस्से...:p
.
.
V
V
V
विचार (thoughts) :p:D

(the message i've written is not short, i've lengthened the message to more then 10 characters) :p:D
...
but wat to do of those... जो येे message समझ के भी नहीं समझ रहे हैं. े

[vijay]

I cann't believe it. Some times u come up with these craps. !!! .it is a false attempt to convince the ppl with such silly example...Mr. vijay !! ppl are having a bit of sense . Don't treat ppl like morons.

Nobody is asking you to believe Prashant and i didn't wrote that to convince anybody here. I just put up a real picture what i observed at first hand.

I totally agree with you that people have a bit of sense provided the fact that in which sense they have the sense and how they use that.

I didn't posted here just to oppose or criticize the reservation policy or people ..... by providing some strange/familiar facts i wish to convey the message that only reservation can't help any community unless people like to accept better education as their primary concern/requirement.

[positivelook]

I tried my level best to be away from this burning issue,but people's attitude made me loose my patience.

let me quote words of two respected members(i will not take the name).

''I believe in myself abd believe that i can fight competiton rather than pretending to b 'backward' just for sake of some job or pretty benefits''


''May i know what the fuss in writing GUNS AND GUTS ARE FOR JATS....ONLY.I think we have to use our guns and guts concept to tackle all such hasles,rather than supporting reservation.''

So my respected members who have this so called 'belief' and 'guts' to thrive without reservation.I have got an idea to check ur belief and guts by puting u on the same footing with the ones for whom we are asking for reservation and than checking ur progress.

All those people who are being selfish(sorry for this word . i might b sounding too rude......but enough is enough) and say that JATS dont need reservation i just throw one challange to u.

LET YOUR CHILDREN STUDY IN VILLAGE GOVT. SCHOOLS FROM PRIMARY TO XII.LET YOUR CHILDREN MANAGE WITH THE SAME ENVIRONMENT WHICH KIDS IN VILLAGES GET.YOUR KIDS WILL STILL B ABLE TO CRACK CAT OR EVEN IAS(afterall u people have faith and guts).YOUR KIDS IN PRIVATE SCHOOLS MIGHT HAVE STARTED SPEAKING ENGLISH FROM THEIR INITIAL SCHOOLING AND HERE IN VILLAGE SCHOOLS A TOPPER OF FOUR VILLAGES CANT SPEAK CONTINUOSLY IN ENLISH EVEN FOR A MINUTE AND U EXPECT HIM TO SHOW GUTS AND FAITH TO CRACK CAT.LET YOUR CHILDREN DO THE SAME HOUSEHOLD WORK WHICH JAT KIDS DO IN VILLAGES FROM AGRICULTURE TO CATTLES.THAN ONLY THERE WILL BE EQUALITY OF OPPORTUNITIES.BETWEEN ALL THOSE WHO ARE AGINST RESERVATION AND THOSE WHO NEED IT.

Either take this challange or plz be quiet over this issue.If u cant understand and support your people dont creat problems for them.Dont be selfish, if u and ur kids dont require reservation because u have enough opportunities to progress, atleast think of the village kids who have .....NO EDUCATION....NO MOTIVATION.....NO GUIDANCE.




ANOTHER REQUEST:Plz dont start a debate on this thread whether we need reservation or not.No need to discuss abt the issue again and again.The only thing is either u think and understand the plight of rural jats or show enough guts to take the challange thrown by me.

Prove that u r a jat either by standing for ur people who are suffering in villages by supporting reservation OR by showing guts and taking up the challange.


NOTE:i know people might put qns regarding my views , so i m making it quiet clear.I m totally against reservation and support that it should be removed from my country, but if others are having than we too want it.
EITHER NO RESERVATION AT ALL OR RESERAVTION FOR JATS TOO.


@moderaters:I request u to not delete this thread by saying that similar threads already exist.I agree that the intention of the threads might b same but the issue here is different.Hope u people will understand.

Regards,
Sumit Dalal.

Bhai Dalal
Apne jo gaon ke school mein padhne kee baat karee kya usse ye sabit hota hai kee Jats need reservation. Now wht i m trying to say is that i accept there are jats who need reservation but not all of them need this. Thats why i say reservation on behalf of financial status is good for our society and if someone is asking reservation on basis of castism he/she is only bit bias on the issue.
bhai rahi baat village mein rehne aur padhne kee vilage mein to mein bhee raha hoon aur kuch saal padha bhee hoon par i never had a idea of gettin reservation. Anyway bhai apna-apna sochne ka tareeqa hai but i still support reservation on babsis of financial status instead of castism!

Ahimanyu Phougat

[anilsinghd]

Sumit,

Infact in such a big system , there are bound to be inefficacies, but that surely does not mean we replace one with other.

I am sorry not to put any fats , but lets be logical about it. I ask you one simple question : If i present to you a 2 children of age 5 years , 2 youth of age 20 years and 2 old people of age 50 years.
Both the children are suffering from malnutrition and it is your responsibility to get them right food , both the young guys are unemployed equally talented , and it is your responsibility to get them right job or means of living , and both the old men are helpless , abandoned by family, no means of living!
Let us also hypothesise that all people are similar in apperance and body etc etc.
The Sumit Dalal I know will not ask me which one of them is Jat ? And i am 100 % sure on this.
He will be compassionate of all and will work on getting the things done rather than wasting an iota of time on differentiating between who is who ?

See , when i am saying that economic wellness should be one of the basis , i am not at all suggesting that fraudulent economic level is also the basis. For sure i am counting out the inefficacies and you being attached to that grass root level do know about the inefficacies and you feel about it.

Just doing things for a caste is going to be damaging in the long run , it will spread hatredness among the people and the will lead to conflicting aspirations.

Lets work towards removing the inefficacies , not introducing them.

I hope u appreciate the point!

Happy to see a feirce battle going on and i mean it , it is really nice constructive argument session and i request all parties to take things in spirit.

Well the reason I reiterate my post is that may be u people have missed it

I cant help the mathematician and now a bit of economist in me to put in their thoughts.

Jitender's comment are really very aggressive and i must say are impressive and produce a sense of chill in the body. I am not at all saying he is wrong but what he tells are specific cases or some parts of society.

Remember the greatest obstacle in our development is the size and the inefficacies this size introduces.

The kind of scenario we are looking at after reservation goes like this:
For every 1 jat guy/girl benefitted , we are putting many similar(much more talented) boys/girls in other societies at bay.
Citing examples of Yadav's ,Meena's enjoying this benefit does not help as you cannot compete with inefficacies by putting in more.

And for all those who are repeating "JAT" in all their arguments , would you be able to answer the query i have quoted ? What are we talking about?
Are you ready to sacrifice the humanity at large for your caste? And would you still be able to call yourself secular? or for that matter Indian?

Lets not be problem specific , lets not fight the problems by making short term fixes and that too for ourselves and which are dangerous for all others?
Can you think of a fix to a soultion to a problem in which you repair your own house's roof by breaking the roof of others and putting that on your own? ? Selfish would be a smaller word for such acts!

The biggest problem with all problems is that they are self-feeding. What we will be achieving with reservation is the same problems that we are facing today but with greater intensities.
Remember reservation was started as a fix to a problem , and now it has itself been a problem.

If we so called elite section do not have compassion for humanity at large how can we expect from them who dont get their basic needs met?

Lets appreciate and understand the things that are not right and take a step towards correcting it rather than complicating the problem with our short sightedness!

[jitender_singh]

I am not here for whole humanity..uske liye politicians hain..

I am here for my community and want to do work for their upliftment..

be practical.. badee badee baaton main kuch na dhara.. we are not politicians..

Happy to see a feirce battle going on and i mean it , it is really nice constructive argument session and i request all parties to take things in spirit.

Well the reason I reiterate my post is that may be u people have missed it

I cant help the mathematician and now a bit of economist in me to put in their thoughts.

Jitender's comment are really very aggressive and i must say are impressive and produce a sense of chill in the body. I am not at all saying he is wrong but what he tells are specific cases or some parts of society.

Remember the greatest obstacle in our development is the size and the inefficacies this size introduces.

The kind of scenario we are looking at after reservation goes like this:
For every 1 jat guy/girl benefitted , we are putting many similar(much more talented) boys/girls in other societies at bay.
Citing examples of Yadav's ,Meena's enjoying this benefit does not help as you cannot compete with inefficacies by putting in more.

And for all those who are repeating "JAT" in all their arguments , would you be able to answer the query i have quoted ? What are we talking about?
Are you ready to sacrifice the humanity at large for your caste? And would you still be able to call yourself secular? or for that matter Indian?

Lets not be problem specific , lets not fight the problems by making short term fixes and that too for ourselves and which are dangerous for all others?
Can you think of a fix to a soultion to a problem in which you repair your own house's roof by breaking the roof of others and putting that on your own? ? Selfish would be a smaller word for such acts!

The biggest problem with all problems is that they are self-feeding. What we will be achieving with reservation is the same problems that we are facing today but with greater intensities.
Remember reservation was started as a fix to a problem , and now it has itself been a problem.

If we so called elite section do not have compassion for humanity at large how can we expect from them who dont get their basic needs met?

Lets appreciate and understand the things that are not right and take a step towards correcting it rather than complicating the problem with our short sightedness!

[anilsinghd]

I am not here for whole humanity..uske liye politicians hain..

I am here for my community and want to do work for their upliftment..

be practical.. badee badee baaton main kuch na dhara.. we are not politicians..

good going ! since we are considered strong people , lets then form some gangs and make bank robberies or rob rich people and get back to only jats !
There aint any difference between the savages of past centuries and us then !

[jitender_singh]

hhahaha how you are comparing two things..asking for your rights is equivalent to do robbery and loot.. not at all..

I am not in favour of gujjar's way of agitation..
but definately supports reservation for jats..
if jats in rajasthan and delhi can have reservation why cant we have in haryana and UP..

Happy to see a feirce battle going on and i mean it , it is really nice constructive argument session and i request all parties to take things in spirit.

Well the reason I reiterate my post is that may be u people have missed it

I cant help the mathematician and now a bit of economist in me to put in their thoughts.

Jitender's comment are really very aggressive and i must say are impressive and produce a sense of chill in the body. I am not at all saying he is wrong but what he tells are specific cases or some parts of society.

Remember the greatest obstacle in our development is the size and the inefficacies this size introduces.

The kind of scenario we are looking at after reservation goes like this:
For every 1 jat guy/girl benefitted , we are putting many similar(much more talented) boys/girls in other societies at bay.
Citing examples of Yadav's ,Meena's enjoying this benefit does not help as you cannot compete with inefficacies by putting in more.

And for all those who are repeating "JAT" in all their arguments , would you be able to answer the query i have quoted ? What are we talking about?
Are you ready to sacrifice the humanity at large for your caste? And would you still be able to call yourself secular? or for that matter Indian?

Lets not be problem specific , lets not fight the problems by making short term fixes and that too for ourselves and which are dangerous for all others?
Can you think of a fix to a soultion to a problem in which you repair your own house's roof by breaking the roof of others and putting that on your own? ? Selfish would be a smaller word for such acts!

The biggest problem with all problems is that they are self-feeding. What we will be achieving with reservation is the same problems that we are facing today but with greater intensities.
Remember reservation was started as a fix to a problem , and now it has itself been a problem.

If we so called elite section do not have compassion for humanity at large how can we expect from them who dont get their basic needs met?

Lets appreciate and understand the things that are not right and take a step towards correcting it rather than complicating the problem with our short sightedness!

good going ! since we are considered strong people , lets then form some gangs and make bank robberies or rob rich people and get back to only jats !
There aint any difference between the savages of past centuries and us then !

[anilsinghd]

Ok , I perfectly dislike arguments!
Lets discuss it constructively.

Let us suppose we have 10 % reservation , tell me how many of those underprivileged would get through the rigours compared to the elite of us.

And also tell me how many jat parents will allow their children to fill their forms not on the reservation seats but general ( with a 90 % possiblity that the student would go through in n e case ) , NO ONE !

I did it myself , and in that sense i made a contribution to "our" caste you are talking about , I filled my JEE forms on general category because i was confident enough of clearing it with only my own potential.

So what exactly the service you are determining to the caste would be converted to :
The elite jats families will get their children in good colleges , they will be engineers and doctors , may be settle abroad , come to Jatland , discuss about reservation issues raisd by some caste and say , lets oppose it and do a service to the "our caste " !
Is that the feedback loop we all are looking at?

Please dont take any of my remarks as rude or arrogant. And also I am all ears to any of your views !

Jitender said that he is more concerned about the clerks and the general middle class who are not able to push through because they lack that bit extra? He made a vlid point for sure. That is the actual strata of "our caste" that will be benefitted.
My point is that there are similar stratas in all class and they will be sidelined by this action of ours.

Meanwhile no body stops us to actually try and help that strata ourselves.
Lets look at the totality , let us look at the whole!
Integrated development , Holistic development are the things we should look at and mind you , I am no guy to do only lip-service.

There aint any moment to waste , let us all conclude , let us all convege and let us all work!

[jitendershooda]

Jitender said that he is more concerned about the clerks and the general middle class who are not able to push through because they lack that bit extra? He made a vlid point for sure. That is the actual strata of "our caste" that will be benefitted.
My point is that there are similar stratas in all class and they will be sidelined by this action of ours.

First of all thanks for providing some different view ....

Hope by this point of yours you accepted that reservation will help such strata to improve their lives. One point. Till now many are only saying this will not have any affect.

Now the demand is to put Jats under OBC which is already there. So people who will be affected is the ones who are currently availing this. Not those who are in general category.

You yourself have said that it was for the good cause and now it become politics today. So I feel that people in OBC who are availing it right now are not much competent despite of same statra of those Jats who will claim it when they will be in that quota.

Example ..... Yadavs are the main beneficiaries of BC quota because their students are more hard working than the others ones. So same case will be with Jats if they got included .... now in OBC the student coming from same strata of we medium family jats despite having less pecentage/marks gets the seats .... what will go wrong if the same seat will be taken by a student of same kind of family of jat?

Hope now your this concern is answered .... that this action of ours will not affect all class but only those students will not get seat who will have less percentage than our students. Please reply.

My point is that there are similar stratas in all class and they will be sidelined by this action of ours.

[brahmtewatia]

Ok , I perfectly dislike arguments! (i luv arguments...usually constructive, unless they turn destructive :p:D)
Lets discuss it constructively.

Let us suppose we have 10 % reservation , tell me how many of those underprivileged would get through the rigours compared to the elite of us. (i wud b glad even if 25% of those down-trodden jaats reap the benefit of reservation...further details, refer below or go to my post no. 30)

And also tell me how many jat parents will allow their children to fill their forms not on the reservation seats but general ( with a 90 % possiblity that the student would go through in n e case ) , NO ONE !

I did it myself , and in that sense i made a contribution to "our" caste you are talking about , I filled my JEE forms on general category because i was confident enough of clearing it with only my own potential.(even i contributed, by not accepting 4-5 govt. jobs tht came my way...in fact m now 10 times better then wat i wud hv bn on a govt. job...does tht serve any purpose ??? ...guess NOT...no ways !!!)

So what exactly the service you are determining to the caste would be converted to :
The elite jats families will get their children in good colleges , they will be engineers and doctors , may be settle abroad , come to Jatland , discuss about reservation issues raisd by some caste and say , lets oppose it and do a service to the "our caste " !
Is that the feedback loop we all are looking at? (...पहले गाँव तो बस जान दो...we can talk on this issue later-on...hw.ever my abv 1st remark is an answer in itself...on this, i wud like u to refer post no. 16 by sanjeev nandal, wch even u...yrself has appreciated...the educated/well settled jats can contribute to this effect in wch ever way they want to, nd for this u dont hv to oppose anything nd still can do service to yr. caste...unlike u nd me, they dont hv. to indulge in this kinda rhetoric over JL...action speak louder than words)

Pls dont take any of my remarks as rude or arrogant. And also I am all ears to any of your views! (same here with 3 smileys )

Jitender said that he is more concerned about the clerks and the general middle class who are not able to push through because they lack that bit extra? He made a vlid point for sure. That is the actual strata of "our caste" that will be benefitted.
My point is that there are similar stratas in all class and they will be sidelined by this action of ours.

Meanwhile no body stops us to actually try and help that strata ourselves.
Lets look at the totality , let us look at the whole!
Integrated development , Holistic development are the things we should look at and mind you , I am no guy to do only lip-service.
(all useless crap...instead of talkin' all this...pls answer this... Originally Posted by spdeshwal
आधे से ज्यादा जाट आबादी ऐसी है जिसे पता नही ४-१० बीघे के टुकड़े में सारा साल कैसे निकलेगा
एक बचे की शादी करनी पड़ जाए , तो सारी उमर के लिए कर्जदार
लड़कों की तो खैर शादी होती ही नही , कोण रिश्ता करेगा , किसी ने लड़की ब्याह्दी तब खिलायेगा क्या ...नोकरी मिलनी नही

में ख़ुद जाती के आधार पर आरक्षण का हिमायती नही , पर आर्थिक आधार पर मिलले नही और जाती के आधार पर मांगो नही , इस तरह ये बहादुर जाती ही खत्म हो जायेगी १००-१५० साल बाद

may be after tht we'll talk in totality, abt yr. Integrated development , Holistic development etc etc etc nd bla bla bla. :rolleyes::D

............................... ............................... ............................ ..............................................

my call to support the reservation is only for the thousands of down-trodden jaats who r needy in real sense. if 100 ppl r in possession, of so called yellow cards, i'm pretty sure tht a chunk of ppl among them really deserve tht...no comments on sick mentality of the undeserving ppl who r getting this pension...so wud b true with the allocation of Jat reservation...i wud b glad even if 25% of those down-trodden jaats reap the benefit of reservation.

i'm supporting jaat reservation just for the mere fact tht there r thousands of down-trodden jaats tht really need to hv a single govt. job in their family...एक family से एक ऊपर उठेगा, तो बाकियों को भी उठाएगा...nd thts where the issue of creamy layer among jats will cum into picture (...पहले गाँव तो बस जान दो...we can talk on this issue later-on)
...
however, for the moment, the need of the hour is to support jaat reservation...blind-foldedly. this reservation is badly required by our these brothers who really need the upliftment. बहुत हो चुकी ये खेतों की नलाई भराई...लाम्नियाँ और भैंस चराई.

so folks wake up to the call of the moment...dont b so indifferent to yr fellow brothers...pls...pls...nd pls...support the cause.

..............

[devdahiya]

andher nagri chaupat raja...hum kyun juttam-juttan ho rhe saan.


iss desh mein badtamizzi chalti hei.shedule casts ko resrvation diya..thheek tha wo uss waqt oppressed thhe........huwa kya...musse ko mil gi halddi ki ganthh pansaari ho liya..and they were backed up by power hungry politicians because ye sab calculation ka game hei....sc comprise 35% of the total vote bank....now all sc IAS and his/here whole family enjoys that nasty previledge........what a shame and what an ugly face of justice......in that light i must say.........we must kick these politicians and get the reservation ......why not agar loot machi hei tou kyun nahin loot ka hissa banno..........iss desh mein koi logic nahin chalta....yahan dhheengga masti chalti hei.....badtameezzi ka bolbala hei..........hamare logon nei iss desh ke liye bahut kurbaniyan di hein aur hamm se jyada shecular kaum aur koi nahin hei lekin humko hamesha badnaam kiya gaya...katgharre mein khadda kiya gaya..........hammari apni kamiyan ho sakti hein jo hamein hurt kar rahi hein lekin hamare logon ke saath anyay to huwa hei.....it is an honest submission......



iske bawajuud bhi mein ye kahungga ki jis ki jitani capacity hei uss hisaab se jutt jaein aur apni kaum ko uppar utthhaein..........i am per say not in fevour of reservation but if that be the need of the hour...please get it because i wish our people well ,PAR SACHAI YE HEI KI RESERVATION CAN NEVER BE THE SOLUTION TO OUR REAL PROBLEMS..............please-2 do not fight amongest ourselves....respect the views of each other.....life is too short.bless!

[devdahiya]

Tell one thing honestly after practically thinking over it... do yu think if Jats get reservation, it ll raech the real needy... i mean will the ppl who are in real need...like the villagers yu ve mentioned who are deprived of all facilities..... get the benefit of reservation.....???
In another post of yours abt economic criteria yu urself ve mentioned... how system is failed.... n ppl who ve properties take yellow card n those below 50 take old age pension...so similar ll happen in the case of reservation... the needy wont get benefitted by this ... it ll only help who are already in better position.
Major problem in this country is failure of system.... they cant provide quality education,,, cant provide baisc amenities to all.... n so much more....!!!
Reservation is no solution... it ll create gap n hatred among the casts,, nothing else.
NO reservation n better n free education for all should be the motto.

Very well said Dr sahiba.I second your thoughts.

[neels]

Oh my God...... Jitender ji you left me speechless. anyway I ll try to answer. First of all,,, I would like to make it clear that I am against all types of reservation,,,, not against of Jat reservation only,,, Nor does it affects me status wise...if it can be helpful fr some. When Jat reservation is there in Delhi n other states... then i don think that Haryana jats are more high esteemed nt to be considered in reservation.
My concern only is that even after reservation fr jats... it ll hardly reach to the kind of ppl yu mentioned ....clerk or teacher wards,,,, mostly it ll be grabbed by those who can do otherwise also.

[/color]

Neelam ji, though you picked Sumit's phrase ... yet providing my views.
If the benefit of reservation will be availed by the child of a teacher who doesnt comes under poverty line or the line we feel is the needy (Shayad hum log needy unko dekh rahe hein jo ki gaon mein hein aur kisi bhi terah se development se achoote hein ... jo apne bacho ko aache se padha bhi nahi pate) but is not able to provide full fledged facilities and have a hard working child who can score 80% but not 90 because his father will not be able to send him to Kota or Delhi to have coaching classes for months .... if such a child get selected then I am more than happy to grab this reservation. Will you be? [[[Yes I ll be.]]]

One example ..... these days because in haryana we are not having reservation in pmt for jats ... and less pmt seats are there ... so even some wise jats are doing like this ....

They put name of their child in some govt schools in delhi from as early as possible eg from 9th or 11th .... child doesnt go to school .... instead their parents put them either in Bansal Kota or in some good coaching institute for whole 2 years 11th and 12th .... the result is .... I know one of my relative who did this and she is now doing MBBS in Maulana azad college .... without any drop .... only because of????????????????

Does this helped?????????? Kya wo ek irrigation dept mein kaam karne wala clerk ... needy nahi hai?????????????? kya wo log iss reservation ke victim hein???????????? Kya issmein kahin se bhi iss jati ke samman ko thes pahunchi ....

For god sake dont be so much impractical ..... yes we say that the benefit would be taken by not so much needy but NEEDY .... as the family in example cited above is nowhere wealthy ..... aajkal bahut bachey competition mein hein ... aur aap nakar nahi sakte ki ... jo bache in coaching institutes se coaching lete hein poora 2 saal they will perform better than others ..... then what will those people will do whose child willnot get these coachings and neither they will get seats .... because seats are less .... the general seats are occupied by much wealthier and fortunate people who for coachings .... aap sehamat honge ki jo baccha ghar par mehanat karne padhega aur kum wealthy situation mein unke maa-baap local tuitions hi dilva pate hein joki aachi standard ki nahi hoti hein .... to wo kitni bhi mehanat kar le wo nahi aa pata hai 50 seeton mein .....
[[[This is what I worry by reservation...that those who take spl coaching frm KOta or so... they ll still score better than our local trained ones in reserved seats also.]]]


To aise mein ya to bilkul reservation band karo ....

Yup this is wat I wish.

Reservation if any should be on economic criteria..... per is desh mein wahan bhi dhandhli hogi... gareeb bechara jise pata hi nahin hoga... ya fir jiski sunwai hi koi nahin karega reh jaega... aur paise wale .. low economic status dikha k fir se faayda uthayenge. They always leave scope in policies, terms n conditions,, so that one can manipulate. It doesnt make any sense to me that a son/daughter of an IAS officer ( or in case any high profile officer) gets the benefit of reservation just because he belongs to a SC/ST or BC/OBC category. And this is wat happening in most of the reservation cases, same ll happen in case of Jats.