Hi all,
I have just got a book, Rise of Jat power by R.P. Singh. have read the introduction, which states "Shri krishna was born in a jat family" and "600 BC till 200 AD" Jats did exist" and that " the population of jats was 5 times in 4th BC than that in 1921"
I just wonder why then only 1669 and further as the times of Jat uprising.
What about the fall of Jat Empire?? never happened to read a text over this. Will feel good if I am helped with this!
Regards,
Sam.
read Herodotus, the father of history. Its Jat history only which made him father of history.
Dear Samikasha
Nice to know your interest in Jats History.
R.P Singh mean RAJPAL SINGH.
it will be better to read all the book and write a review.
There are many other jat historian and History books to read.
This is life long process interesting but boring some time.
see Link below
cheers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jat_clan_system
Jay Jawan Jay Kisan Jay Shaheed
by the way jat never falls.
westernmost branch in the Danubian region: Jász, Jat, Jut. During the British rule over India, colonizers and scholars noticed to their astonishment that many Jat people had apparently English family names or very similar. Certainly the proud Jats would have never adopted British surnames for their own ancestral clans, and they did not result from intermarriage either. Other foreign powers ruled over the Indus Valley before and for longer periods than England, yet no Jat clan names corresponding to the previous rulers have been found. Besides this, no other Indian people had such names except Jats. This peculiarity led scholars to research about these Jat-British homonyms: those names in England may be traced back to a Jut origin, mainly Kentish; among the Jats, they exist since the distant past. This appears to be more than a coincidence; Jats and Juts are the same people. This assertion finds confirmation in historic records, for example, the Roman writer Ammianus Marcellinus, who called all Sarmatian peoples "Alani", wrote: "Alani once were known as the Massagetae. The Alani mount to the eastward, divided into populous and extensive nations; these reach as far as Asia and, as I have heard, stretch all the way to the river Ganges, which flows through the territories of India". British scholars and also officers compared the Jats' warrior character with that of the Kentish men as well as their traditional laws, for instance, the double heritage part for the youngest son, still practised among Indian Jats. An accurate research about this people which takes account of all the relevant characteristics of their ethnicity reveals that they are among the purest Sarmatic tribes existing today. See map of the Indus valley peoples.
this quote about Krishna comes from Al Biruni's book on India written around 1000AD (2000 years after Krishna's time)... al biruni's book is valuable source on India's history and full text is available in DLI website... this particular quote occurs casually in one sentence and shouldn't be taken literally... as far as I remember this sentence is the only place where Jat word is mentioned in the book... he wrote what he saw and heard, and he must been informed by someone that Krishna was so he wrote it... this sentence is quoted in almost all jat history book and no one has questioned it...
On other hand, such a quote could be seen as metaphor for origin of Jats from Yadava's for which there are ample proofs and you still don't need to take the quote literally... Relations of Jats and Yadavas was first suggested by Desraj and Qanungo and a chapter is devoted to that in Paurnia's and Juke's book(which is verbatim copy of the former, thanks Ravi ji for providing a copy)...
As per R P Singh's book it's lackluster, there is not much original content... most of it just about Bharatpur... the most original work on Bharatpur was done by Wendel in his memoirs which became backbone reference for all future books... instead of R P Singh begin with Qanungo or better still Wendel...
As per population of Jats in ancient times God only knows...
-vinod
Originally Posted by samranwa
Last edited by vinodks; June 18th, 2007 at 03:18 AM.
It may be that universal history is the history of the different intonations given to a handful of metaphors. -J L Borges
but I got it from this
www.imninalu.net/Eurasians.htm
some1 told me that ,nagon(nagvansh) ne krishnavansh ko khatm kar diya tha
Dudi Uncleji,
Pranam!!
That was so informative stuff I found there on the wiki link u mentioned!!
Im realy greatful to u for that.....it was indeed enlighting educatin reading about Clan/Gotra system!!
Im kinda confused as it shows Takhars as Nagavanshi Jat clans,
I couldnt understand much about Vansa theory n in particular Nagavanshi,
historians kindly describe this in simple language!!
Is this really useful Wiki-link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jat_clan_system added in Jat-wiki or not?? I guess its not there....Burdak uncle or DND uncle would u plz do it
thanx in advance!!
Rock on
Jit
.. " Until Lions have their historians, tales of the hunt shall always glorify the hunter! " ..
Rajpal Singh book is basically his P.hd thesis.
When he wrote it, his purpose was to get a P.hd, which is done under a ‘guide’.
The subject matter is then basically the house of Bharatpur, with some other brief comments thrown in.
The references are to existing literature, mainly Urdu sources.
He is very hesitant, and that is not unexpected either, regrading the Jat sources.
There is not, and one should expect it either, any great amount of new information being brought out.
If he had taken a much more in-depth, and Jat oriented approach, it may have interfered in his getting a P.hd.
His work is then not about the history of the Jat since time immemorial.
If you are looking to get an insight into that, then please start with two books-
RS Joon _ History of the Jats
And Thakur Desraj Jat Ithihas -
both online in the Yahoo Jat History group in the file section
You can also read, Jat Ithihas by Dr Nathan Singh.
Those three will give a good all round insight into the subject.
Once one has been through these book, then Rajpal Singh’s book is helpful, for it will supplement our knowledge for an in depth account in English of Surajmal’s times.
Good Luck
Ravi Chaudhary
Samiksha's question remains unanswered. When was the fall of Jat Empire ?
First fall - First fall was the fall of Manda Empire in Iran. It was a result of these wars that the first migration of the Jats took place and from the Manda Empire and from other parts of Central Asia they came to India. That is why Panini mentioned many cities of theirs in the heart of Punjab in the fifth century B.C.
Second fall - With the death of Harshavardhana in 647 AD.
Third fall - With the defeat of Prithvi Raj Chauhan in 1192 AD.
Rise started again - With Gokula in 1669
Laxman Burdak
burdak ji........abt second and third i m not sure...but i am not really convinced abt the third one............... who has considered prithvi raj chauhan as jat
Become more and more innocent, less knowledgeable and more childlike. Take life as fun - because that's precisely what it is!
When was the golden period of Jat history....can any one throw some light please.
"LIFE TEACHES EVERY ONE IN A NATURAL WAY.NO ONE CAN ESCAPE THIS REALITY"
The Gupta Empire (320 - 540 AD) was one of the largest political and military empires in ancient India. It was ruled by the Gupta dynasty from around 240 to 550 CE and covered most of northern India and what is now eastern Pakistan and Bangladesh. During this period it was considered a Great power. The period of this Jat Empire is considered to be the Golden period in the History of India.
See more on Jatland Wiki at URL
http://www.jatland.com/home/Gupta_Empire
Regards,
Laxman Burdak
Why not, use to correct terminolgy, call it the Dharan (Gupt) empire.
On our web sites that is what should call it.
Simply because the wrong terminology was used in history books does not mean we should continue the wrong terminology.
As a matter of fact, if the colonial historians had known that it was the Dharan Dynasty , they would have called it that.
Our goal is to get the right terminology to be used, and to bring out that they were Jats, in all Indian History textbooks.
Ravi Chaudhary
Still a lot of ambiguity
But still a lot of confusion is going on over the Dharan (gupt) to be considered as Jats.
However, I have seen the comments mentioned by Mr. Burdak Ji, Ravi Chaudhary Ji and other at the wiki, where Jat History items are being deleted...
If really we have the proof, why such ambiguity in the minds of other Historians...
Satendra Chaudhary (Vaire)
"Not everyone can become an Artist, but an artist can come from anywhere"
"Age is not the criteria for being experienced"
its not true. the story goes like this that maharaja parikshit ultimately decided to end the nag vansh out of anger. there then ensued a understanding type that nagas are also jats and your brothers only.
lived there a mahrishi like kagbhushundi (kakran jat) of meerut. who pacified these two jats, not to querrel, therefrom comes the story of mahabharat.
he told them that your ancestors (kaurav/pandav) querralled so n so till end n this was the result..
whether posts are being deleted or accepted, please see their concern. please show your concern like them, just try....But still a lot of confusion is going on over the Dharan (gupt) to be considered as Jats.
However, I have seen the comments mentioned by Mr. Burdak Ji, Ravi Chaudhary Ji and other at the wiki, where Jat History items are being deleted...
If really we have the proof, why such ambiguity in the minds of other Historians...
Simply having proof is not enough.But still a lot of confusion is going on over the Dharan (gupt) to be considered as Jats.
However, I have seen the comments mentioned by Mr. Burdak Ji, Ravi Chaudhary Ji and other at the wiki, where Jat History items are being deleted...
If really we have the proof, why such ambiguity in the minds of other Historians...
There is also the matter of what is ‘established’ doctrine, and that then has to be overcome. There are also vested interests whose careers are based on the existing paradigm.
Make change happen is not a simple matter, it is an uphill task.
The analogy for example, could be.
Mr. x has discovered a new technology, a new engine that will run on air, which will save billions of Dollars in the cost of running motor vehicles - oil, tires, cheaper cars etc.
However the new product will displace the old existing manufacturers. – who depend on oil; whose self interest would be being served by shutting down the competition and continuing to make money.
The new company is forced out of business.
Similarly the existing version of History shows that the Gupta were not jats. The origins arte described as ‘obscure’.
If they had been described as Jats, and so was Harshvardhan, and also the first Mauryas, then in today’s history classes, it would not be unreasonable to ask what happened to them and their descendants?
Questions would also be raise das to rise of the Islamic power and the concomitant Rajput power; one could not have existed without the other.
That would create quite a dysfunction.
Hence despite the proof being there, we have to contend with vested interests, who will not give up their position easily.
That is why, the work of the Jat historians is most important and also important is the work of the young Jat men and women, who are needed to continue the battle to re- acquire our heritage.
We need help. The more volunteers the better.
Join us, do not be lukewarm
Ravi Chaudhary
However, I have seen the comments mentioned by Mr. Burdak Ji, Ravi Chaudhary Ji and other at the wiki, where Jat History items are being deleted...
If really we have the proof, why such ambiguity in the minds of other Historians...
We are not dealing with historians, but with amateurs.
These amateurs wish to push their narrow view of history.
The view is usually based on their limited knowledge acquired by limited reading,of versions written by English speaking colonial writers .
Since wiki can be edited by anyone, these people delete material at will and this is difficult to check or stop.
Lack of knowledge of the subject is not a deterrent for these people.
To stop them, a continous effort is required.
The only way to stop this is for more of us to get involved.
Best regards
Ravi Chaudhary
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Originally Posted by samranwa
